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  1. FKG
  2. Flower Knight Girl Integration

  1. #1

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    New TP ranking and why it's bad.

    So, the new ally list came up today, and it's rightly caused an uproar.

    Even ignoring how similar games that catered to whales ended up closing down, even as they were still getting other content (X-Overd being the biggest offender), there are plenty of reasons as to why introducing competition is bad for FKG.

    The main issue to deal with is that, by introducing competition into FKG, it no longer becomes the casual waifu-collecting game it's become.

    Remember the Xmas ticket fiasco? If you got a gold or a dupe rainbow, and the other guy got a new rainbow, that didn't really affect you vs. the rest of the community. All it meant was that you lost a ~50% roll, and the other person didn't. It sucks, but it's not like you were actively competing with the other person for that waifu.

    Now? You have to contend with:

    -"I got a rainbow! Oh, but it's just Helenium. Hey, that other person got a rainbow. It's his third Dendrobium. Well, fuck me, I'm never beating that guy now."
    -"I put ampies into a 4* or lower girl because she was my waifu. Huh, that doesn't make a difference for my TP? Well, shit, that's 300 ampies down the drain."
    -"Stupid people nuking raid bosses. I need equipment seeds to get +10 everything and max out all my units!"

    Oh wait, that last one sorta already happens.

    Either way, you get the idea. We go from a simple waifu-collection game to an arms race of +10/level 40 4-slot equip Dendrobiums (or Peach, if you want to fall back on golds disguised as rainbows).

    Okay, fine, we don't actually know how this ranking system will play out. But there's definitely still cause for concern, especially if it turns out to be a reason for the game's sudden closure.


  2. #2

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    New ranking looks like Excel spreadsheet. Shit, compared to old one (IMO).
    I won't say anything about global ranking, since it's not even in game yet. It might only affect whales, it might drive everyone away from the game. Only time will tell. But knowing Nutaku, and knowing it's their idea... Right now I'm really considering giving DMM a try. Just in case.
    Last edited by skasio; 05-23-2017 at 10:59 AM.


    Signature done by Myrdin

  3. And so the beginning of the end.

    I was wondering when Nutaku would take their customization and tweaks too far, and it looks like it has begun.

    Anyways, later down DMM update line, the TP display was tweaked to include ampies and equipment, so that even public helper squads would visually reflect their true strength.
    Food for thought.
    Last edited by A Time to Screw; 05-23-2017 at 11:32 AM.
    Flower Knight Girl ID: 716597775
    Level 155. Total Power ~546000


  4. #4

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    If Nutaku FKGs may die, it will die because the lack of free thing-support.

    Dying of this game is nigh, if those dev still try to make this game into a Pay2Win game.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Mindrunner View Post
    You think this will kill FKG?
    Well not instantly, but it's a creeping disease.

    Creeping changes like this are red alerts for me. I've seen it happen time and time again to games that enjoyed healthy popularity. It usually marks its decline, or at least its deviation from the game it once was, and potentially alienates newer players from ever giving the game a try.

    They say it's small changes that won't affect anything. But what people don't realize is that small changes like these is what incentivizes further, more drastic changes.

    It started with things like the overpriced flower gem shops to buy ampies and even Rainbow Skill/Dressblooms, apparently more options for the whales without effecting the casual players?
    Then they built a custom UI that deviated drastically from the DMM UI. At first I didn't know why, maybe they were bored?
    But it's obvious now, it's framework for them to add further Nutaku customization. As evident with the Nutaku "Rankings" feature.

    The mods on discord claim that players will simply earn rewards based on their own TP and will not be compared to their friends, therefore people will technically lose nothing and get freebies only from it. But then what's that "Global Rankings" button greyed out and peeking to the right of that menu? What reason would we have to plan to implement a Global Ranking feature that even DMM does not deem necessary to have?

    It's clear they're pushing for a more "competitive" atmosphere with easier and clearer ways to not only compare each other to friends, but to the entire server as a whole. This is a thin line, because if they aren't careful they may alienate/intimidate/frustrate newer players.
    They claim that this won't make the game p2w for now, but Nutaku's history of poor management makes me very cautious and critical of their every decision.

    What's to say they won't implement rewards for Global Rankings next? What other reason do they otherwise to include this feature? Kindness of their heart? Nah.
    Every decision Nutaku makes is for profit. The overpriced custom flower gem shop was so they could make more money from those willing to shell out the dosh. Their multitude of weekly deals (whether cheap or overpriced) serves to make them more money. And now this custom UI and reward based ranking system is surely for the same reason, to make more money.


    Also, remember that shitstorm that was the free [50% Gold Knight, 50% Rainbow Knight] ticket that was givem during christmas. Remember the amount of salt that people had from drawing a gold knight while people around them drew rainbow knights? Even though the ticket was given for free no strings attached?
    Doesn't matter if it's freebies with nothing to lose or not. It's a matter of player satisfaction. A lot of players will find competition and will compare themselves harshly to other players whenever they can.
    What if super good ranking rewards were only available monthly to players above 500k TP? For example, every month as a player with over 500k TP, you get a Free Premium Draw ticket, or a Rainbow Skillbloom? While players under 500k TP get...iono, 1 flower gem monthly?
    It'd leave a bad taste in people's mouths, and would be a clear indication of Nutaku further pandering to whales. Causing furhter frustration ontop of the already existing frustration of inherent to Gacha games, as well as the issue people take comparing Nutaku to DMM, whom give out more monthly freebies than Nutaku.

    And while I don't wanna bring up the fact that DMM gives out more freebies than Nutaku as that's more of a size-of-playerbase thing than it is an act of kindness on their part, freebies given out on DMM are still given to every single player, whether you are a whale or a newbie.
    Comparatively, freebies from this ranking system on Nutaku will be on a player-by-player Total Power basis, where only the whales will get the best rewards while casuals get less.

    A better system would be that freebie rewards become more lucrative depending on the total power of the entire playerbase, and everyone gets the rewards, so that everyone would benefit equally. But that's just a pipe dream because that doesn't make as much potential profit.
    Last edited by A Time to Screw; 05-23-2017 at 12:41 PM.
    Flower Knight Girl ID: 716597775
    Level 155. Total Power ~546000


  6. #6
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    Guess I can't really speak to whether this will "kill" FKG, as I don't really spend money on it, so it's not like my playing habits have any bearing on its existence, but... I dunno, I just don't understand how a ranking (and nothing else) can make people quit.

    Perhaps if there was some form of PvP in FKG. That I would understand. I've seen people quit games when they finally realize that - no matter what they do - they could not advance any further, whether by RNG or skill or whatever. They got their enjoyment, their rush, out of winning and improving; take that away and they leave. So shoving in their faces a whole bunch of people who are demonstrably "better" than them, and give them no (reliable) way of attempting to "beat" them, is gonna push them away.

    But in a PvE-only game, where the only real "competition" between players is a glorified high score table... I dunno. The exact same waifu-collectathon is there as before, and the exact same dick-waving contest is there as before; the only real difference is now there's a billboard somewhere saying who has the largest dick in the world, as opposed to just your own group of friends.

    I dunno. I just don't get it, I guess.

    - - - Updated - - -

    DMM does have a level cap. It's just that it's 250 and there's no real incentive to get there, so nobody tries to reach it except as a challenge.

    Anyway, the awfulness of this new ranking system will depend entirely on whether non-whale players are paywalled from getting appreciable rewards. If that is the case, then you have a very good argument for heading to DMM, if you didn't already.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by A Time to Screw View Post
    It started with things like the overpriced flower gem shops to buy ampies and even Rainbow Skill/Dressblooms, apparently more options for the whales without effecting the casual players?
    I won't disagree with anything else in that post, and while it is a crime that those overpriced ampies still exist, the 50 FGs for rainbow dressbloom is technically a good Nutaku deal for free and paying players alike.

    Anyway, what irks me the most is the damage control (or pretending that there is no damage to control) on Discord.

    There's obvious reason to be concerned about adding P2W (actual P2W this time, btw, not the pay-to-waifu I was praising this game for six months ago), and for Discord chat to shut down dissent is really appalling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Guess I can't really speak to whether this will "kill" FKG, as I don't really spend money on it, so it's not like my playing habits have any bearing on its existence, but... I dunno, I just don't understand how a ranking (and nothing else) can make people quit.
    The main concern as to whether or not this will kill FKG is if this is repeating what X-Overd did to suddenly die. Bear in mind X-Overd is also another PvE-only game, and that didn't change anything.

    X-Overd was getting steady content updates, even if the population was low, and while DMM players didn't appreciate how whale-centric the events became, it was pulling in income all the same. For the game to suddenly pull the plug despite all that set a red flag for people, and now we're seeing the start of something similar happening here.
    Last edited by Eab1990; 05-23-2017 at 12:21 PM.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post

    But in a PvE-only game, where the only real "competition" between players is a glorified high score table... I dunno. The exact same waifu-collectathon is there as before, and the exact same dick-waving contest is there as before; the only real difference is now there's a billboard somewhere saying who has the largest dick in the world, as opposed to just your own group of friends.

    I dunno. I just don't get it, I guess.
    The difference is that there are now rewards tied to dick waving. If you thought whales were obnoxious before, oh boy.

    Again, I refer to that shitstorm that was the free [50% Gold Knight, 50% Rainbow Knight] ticket that was givem during Christmas, along with the amount of pissed off players and headaches caused in discord.
    It depends on how thick each player's skin is, but chances are most people will be discouraged by the fact that whales reap more benefits than casuals. You could try to justify it by saying that whales "deserve more rewards" (as if them getting what they pay for isn't enough?), but FKG along with the philosophy of the original devs was never meant to be that kind of game.
    Flower Knight Girl ID: 716597775
    Level 155. Total Power ~546000


  9. #9
    Eh. I see this morning as the same as any other Tuesday or Thursday: Minor changes bringing doomsayers out of the woodwork.
    If the game dies, it dies. If it lives on, it lives on. Eh. C'est la vie.

    Personally I don't really see why people are getting into a tizzy. The community spent the last month complaining and plastering the Discord Issues channel with "Where's my ranking list?" "I want the ranking list back!" or variants of "FKG must be dying because they removed the TP list!" Now we have people complaining it's back, complaining that they won't be eligible for freebies (that they weren't getting beforehand anyway) and worrying that some random player will be "Global #1/Ally #1" over them. It just seems like regardless of what's given to us, we're going to sit here and bash it, and find a way it's going to ruin FKG.

    Why are people bothered by a general global ranking list anyway? You don't have to look at the list, it's stashed away in the corner, in a tab that's smaller than any other button on our UI. It's not like they wouldn't be above the rest of us without the list letting us know they are anyway. This entire "FKG will become Competitive" concept is stupid. Those players who are already the strongest among us are already making a competition of seeing who's the strongest between them anyway. The people who genuinely play for the waifu factor:
    Why do you care if you ampyd a 3* because she's weak if she's your waifu? Isn't the whole point of ampying a waifu who's not "meta" or "viable" late game the fact that she's your favourite, and it was a sacrifice of better/more viable options to show your favouritism?

    Why bother even giving us new content if all it accomplishes is get the community worried about the game dying because of it. Might as well just pull a KGs and stop updating if this is how we act. Realistically the only shitty thing about the TP board is the colour-scheme they chose makes it impossible to read if you're colour-blind.

    Said it before and I'll say it again; Our community acts like spoiled children over anything and everything. Unpopular an opinion that it might be, I still think that it's true.

    DMM ID: 826334200
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    Currently: Still looking for DMM allies.

  10. #10
    Unregistered Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by A Time to Screw View Post
    The difference is that there are now rewards tied to dick waving. If you thought whales were obnoxious before, oh boy.

    Again, I refer to that shitstorm that was the free [50% Gold Knight, 50% Rainbow Knight] ticket that was givem during Christmas, along with the amount of pissed off players and headaches caused in discord.
    It depends on how thick each player's skin is, but chances are most people will be discouraged by the fact that whales reap more benefits than casuals. You could try to justify it by saying that whales "deserve more rewards" (as if them getting what they pay for isn't enough?), but FKG along with the philosophy of the original devs was never meant to be that kind of game.
    *Have* they tied rewards to the global ranking? Earlier posts in this thread seemed to indicate that ranking-based rewards was a possible outcome down the line, but not that they had actually implemented it already, or promised to. (Honest question; I don't visit the Discord, so most of my FKG news comes from either the game itself or browsing here.)

    - - - Updated - - -

    People are not worried about global TP rankings existing. That is fine.

    People are worried about global TP rankings being tied to in-game rewards. That has been implied, and is not fine.

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