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  1. #1

    got banned by probiller retarded system

    I have granted some of my friends access to my nutaku account and of course they have different IP locations and different credit cards , paypal or whatever method they use to pay .

    so 2 of them decided to get gold for the account . surprisingly I lost access to my account because it was suspected as fraud and got banned!

    I contacted web support and they said they won't reactivate my account .

    well I got something to say :

    1)If nutaku bans user for such behavior they should at least tell them about it and warn them and not just let them do this then ban their accounts suddenly as if it is a trap . in short either eliminate the consequences or warn them that you do not support multi payment to one account

    2)it is not just about refunding " that did not happen till now so the money payed is lost till now " it is about gaming achievements and history so any ideas about starting another account is ridiculous and unfair unless you transfer every gaming data from my old account to the new one in every single game along with the gold points of course .

    I hope this issue is solved fast I really hate to see events going on and can not participate in them

    no single game is touched by any one but me they only got access to get gold so I thought you should know that
    Last edited by Ladies lover; 04-07-2016 at 10:38 PM. Reason: no single game is touched by any one but me


  2. #2
    That's super lame. I'm sorry to hear that. You clearly put a lot of work into your account, so to have it banned is a pretty big hit. Best of luck getting it resolved.

  3. #3
    Epoch is even worse. It doesn't let change payment methods, specially if someone USE CASH instead of a card for some cases (like SafetyPay).

    I talked in the past about how shitty are Nutaku's payment processors, because these billing issues matters a lot on a pay to win focused scheme.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ladies lover View Post
    I have granted some of my friends access to my nutaku account and of course they have different IP locations and different credit cards , paypal or whatever method they use to pay .

    so 2 of them decided to get gold for the account . surprisingly I lost access to my account because it was suspected as fraud and got banned!

    I contacted web support and they said they won't reactivate my account .

    well I got something to say :

    1)If nutaku bans user for such behavior they should at least tell them about it and warn them and not just let them do this then ban their accounts suddenly as if it is a trap . in short either eliminate the consequences or warn them that you do not support multi payment to one account

    2)it is not just about refunding " that did not happen till now so the money payed is lost till now " it is about gaming achievements and history so any ideas about starting another account is ridiculous and unfair unless you transfer every gaming data from my old account to the new one in every single game along with the gold points of course .

    I hope this issue is solved fast I really hate to see events going on and can not participate in them
    DING! It explains all, ToS changed.

    In the past, Nutaku left an implicit tolerance about sharing accounts (find old macro threads), current ToS no longer has this text.

    At user conduct terms that was shown in the past
    You agree that you (nor others using your account) shall not:
    Now is
    You acknowledge and agree that you shall not:
    Is a great difference, because on later terms this was forbidden.

    use the Website in any way that exposes us to criminal or civil liability or use our Website for fraudulent or abusive purposes (including, without limitation, by using our Website to impersonate any person or entity, or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation with a person, entity or our Website);
    And Nutaku or it's processors guess you cheated this term. What i can guess about this case is one payment failed or was blocked, then probiller dropped the alarm signal. Yes, you can get banned with just ONE failure.

    They has no need to response your claims on these cases, but exist an email to try on ToS, report@nutaku.net. But i suggest to ask on their facebook first.
    Last edited by chillinfar; 04-07-2016 at 12:46 AM.
    Give one F2P game to a Korean: He will turn it in a P2W (pay to win)
    Give one F2P to an American: He will turn it in a P2F (Pay to fail)
    Nutaku ID: 454836

  4. #4
    That honestly seems loosely interpreted, since in this particular case it's not the impersonation or misrepresentation of an individual, but simply the shared use of multiple individuals, in which all involved parties have consented. While it could very well be considered a ToS violation, I doubt it was the trigger, even if it could be spun both ways.

    If I had to guess, it's probably a case of the payment system's pre-programmed fraud detection giving a red flag due to multiple payment methods that don't correlate to the same individual and choosing to lock your account down in terms of future payments and subsequently alerting Nutaku in the process, which Nutaku is probably also programmed to follow suit. From then on, Nutaku's approach (from a dick-wad business perspective) would be that they could re-activate your account but there's no particular benefit in doing so since you still won't be able to make any more future purchases anyways so long as that payment portal's locked down.

    And I know what you're gonna say, something along the lines of "just make it so that I can buy gold again, that simple". Yeah, it probably would be that simple if it weren't a separate-party system that deals with the payment side, and while Nutaku may be willing to re-activate the account, it's difficult to say if the payment site would do the same, more so if they have a list of confusing terms that your little multi-user stunt potentially violated.

    And finally regarding your gri-...suggestions:

    -General Note: Under the terms of use, Nutaku technically reserves the right to revoke your account access or even outright shut down the site for no reason whatsoever, even if you were a "law-abiding citizen" of sorts. While game sites almost never exercise that right, it's there to say "we can do what we want", so your "should"s don't exactly apply. That being said, I get that you mean "should" as in "this would be a much more hospitable approach to users" but even so...

    1. Eliminating the consequences (in other words, not banning the account) is out of the question. Allowing suspicious activity to run free, especially in the perspective of fraud, is incredibly dangerous and runs the risk of stirring up further problems down the road if not stopped early. I'm pretty sure the payment portal would prefer that they stopped payments to an account early and had to deal with a customer wanting to make more payments instead of having to deal with a non-customer who got his/her credit card(s) stolen and wants a massive refund in the time the payment site did nothing. The multi-payment warning sounds nice but ultimately you won't be able to see it since the site would automatically deny you access thereafter.

    2. From a business perspective, importing existing account data into a new account is wasteful on time and available resource. Plus, other than bypassing it for that one instance, it fails to solve the underlying issue as your account will get locked down yet again if it senses the same suspicious activity from before. From a moral perspective, it teaches you, the user, absolutely nothing and gives you the impression that you got away with it scot-free and can just do it again expecting to get bailed out down the road.

    On my own personal take, you seem to be talking in a way (or just lacking the tone that would suggest otherwise) that seems like you think (and will continue to think) having several users run your account is perfectly acceptable (I honestly don't know whether or not it is but I'd suggest you find that out one way or another). By inference, I'm thinking there's a possibility that during your time contacting customer service you came off to them as unapologetic and likely to create the same issues again, in which case naturally they'd refuse.

    There are frankly quite a few things that I don't quite understand. Was it Nutaku or the billing portal that chose to lock the account down? If it was Nutaku, was it due to a specific ToS violation and are they expecting you to prove you won't do it again before they reconsider your access rights? On the other hand, if it was the billing portal, what would it take for the portal to reinstate you and subsequently allow account access?
    Last edited by ChibiKika; 04-07-2016 at 06:40 AM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by ChibiKika View Post
    That honestly seems loosely interpreted, since in this particular case it's not the impersonation or misrepresentation of an individual, but simply the shared use of multiple individuals, in which all involved parties have consented. While it could very well be considered a ToS violation, I doubt it was the trigger, even if it could be spun both ways.

    If I had to guess, it's probably a case of the payment system's pre-programmed fraud detection giving a red flag due to multiple payment methods that don't correlate to the same individual and choosing to lock your account down in terms of future payments and subsequently alerting Nutaku in the process, which Nutaku is probably also programmed to follow suit. From then on, Nutaku's approach (from a dick-wad business perspective) would be that they could re-activate your account but there's no particular benefit in doing so since you still won't be able to make any more future purchases anyways so long as that payment portal's locked down.

    And I know what you're gonna say, something along the lines of "just make it so that I can buy gold again, that simple". Yeah, it probably would be that simple if it weren't a separate-party system that deals with the payment side, and while Nutaku may be willing to re-activate the account, it's difficult to say if the payment site would do the same, more so if they have a list of confusing terms that your little multi-user stunt potentially violated.

    And finally regarding your gri-...suggestions:

    -General Note: Under the terms of use, Nutaku technically reserves the right to revoke your account access or even outright shut down the site for no reason whatsoever, even if you were a "law-abiding citizen" of sorts. While game sites almost never exercise that right, it's there to say "we can do what we want", so your "should"s don't exactly apply. That being said, I get that you mean "should" as in "this would be a much more hospitable approach to users" but even so...

    1. Eliminating the consequences (in other words, not banning the account) is out of the question. Allowing suspicious activity to run free, especially in the perspective of fraud, is incredibly dangerous and runs the risk of stirring up further problems down the road if not stopped early. I'm pretty sure the payment portal would prefer that they stopped payments to an account early and had to deal with a customer wanting to make more payments instead of having to deal with a non-customer who got his/her credit card(s) stolen and wants a massive refund in the time the payment site did nothing. The multi-payment warning sounds nice but ultimately you won't be able to see it since the site would automatically deny you access thereafter.

    2. From a business perspective, importing existing account data into a new account is wasteful on time and available resource. Plus, other than bypassing it for that one instance, it fails to solve the underlying issue as your account will get locked down yet again if it senses the same suspicious activity from before. From a moral perspective, it teaches you, the user, absolutely nothing and gives you the impression that you got away with it scot-free and can just do it again expecting to get bailed out down the road.

    On my own personal take, you seem to be talking in a way (or just lacking the tone that would suggest otherwise) that seems like you think (and will continue to think) having several users run your account is perfectly acceptable (I honestly don't know whether or not it is but I'd suggest you find that out one way or another). By inference, I'm thinking there's a possibility that during your time contacting customer service you came off to them as unapologetic and likely to create the same issues again, in which case naturally they'd refuse.

    There are frankly quite a few things that I don't quite understand. Was it Nutaku or the billing portal that chose to lock the account down? If it was Nutaku, was it due to a specific ToS violation and are they expecting you to prove you won't do it again before they reconsider your access rights? On the other hand, if it was the billing portal, what would it take for the portal to reinstate you and subsequently allow account access?
    got banned by probiller retarded system-captffure.png check this


    multi management is nothing wrong . I am currently managing another friend account and it is not banned .
    Last edited by Ladies lover; 04-07-2016 at 07:32 AM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ChibiKika View Post
    That honestly seems loosely interpreted, since in this particular case it's not the impersonation or misrepresentation of an individual, but simply the shared use of multiple individuals, in which all involved parties have consented. While it could very well be considered a ToS violation, I doubt it was the trigger, even if it could be spun both ways.
    The problem starts when someone did it wrong with payments doesn't made by original owner (hijacking suspects or even worse, carding, from a business side). Probiller report Nutaku, Nutaku ban the suspicious account.

    That's why i quoted that term, but isn't the only which now could ban accounts with this kind of management.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The fact is Nutaku changed the way how they manage their accounts and ToS has since last gambit a lot of changes. Things tolerated in the past are now suspicious.

    P.S: Other change is about hiding IP, a VPN ban? I should ask Nutaku about this, because VPN is a bad cure for many diseases from peruvian ISP (i.e traffic shaping against Flash content)
    Last edited by chillinfar; 04-07-2016 at 10:30 AM.
    Give one F2P game to a Korean: He will turn it in a P2W (pay to win)
    Give one F2P to an American: He will turn it in a P2F (Pay to fail)
    Nutaku ID: 454836

  7. #7
    I do not know how they interpret the ToS but this jumps out at me as possible things that could have gotten you flagged:

    create more than one account per platform to access our Website;

    use another person or entity’s email address in order to sign up to use our Website;

    sell, transfer or try to sell or transfer an account with us or any part of an account including any virtual currency or virtual goods;

    If you are using more than one account (or sharing several accounts among friends) then it's possible that they interpret that action as a ToS violation. They could spin it as transferring the account (even though you aren't selling it, you ARE transferring it to another person for free to use) or say that by managing your account (and at least one of your friends' accounts) that you effectively have two accounts. That's a very strict reading and interpretation of the rules, but it's not out of bounds for them.

    Personally, I don't really see any harm in sharing accounts between people, but as the ToS is written, it does not appear to be permitted. The fact that you have never been previously flagged doesn't mean that it's not illegal. It just means that you've never been caught. Assuming you've ever driven a car, I'm willing to bet that you have exceeded the speed limit. Strictly speaking, every time you exceed the speed limit, you can potentially be flagged and given a fine. In the example of speeding, cops are usually OK with you driving too fast.... until they decide they are no longer okay with it. Driving 10 over? Ehhh.... no ticket. 15 over? That's a ticket. 10 over again? Ummm.... yeah.. ticket.

    Many rules are loosely enforced, which makes enforcement seem arbitrary. I can fully understand you feeling frustrated. While they are completely within their rights to ban you, I would hope they would reverse the decision. It doesn't help them to turn away a paying customer, so they may decide to reinstate your account, provided you promise to no longer share accounts. The rule may be stupid, but sadly, they get to make the rules. And they get to enforce the rules, whether it's strictly or loosely or something in between.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by JSensei View Post
    I do not know how they interpret the ToS but this jumps out at me as possible things that could have gotten you flagged:

    create more than one account per platform to access our Website;

    use another person or entity’s email address in order to sign up to use our Website;

    sell, transfer or try to sell or transfer an account with us or any part of an account including any virtual currency or virtual goods;

    If you are using more than one account (or sharing several accounts among friends) then it's possible that they interpret that action as a ToS violation. They could spin it as transferring the account (even though you aren't selling it, you ARE transferring it to another person for free to use) or say that by managing your account (and at least one of your friends' accounts) that you effectively have two accounts. That's a very strict reading and interpretation of the rules, but it's not out of bounds for them.
    As i said before, ToS changed a lot. Those terms wasn't present at original state.

    The lesson is, read ToS often, most services change them without any notice (and they state it clearly).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ladies lover View Post
    got banned by probiller retarded system-captffure.png check this


    this
    THIS
    T H I S
    Attachment 1021

    What i said. Go back to Steam m8
    Last edited by chillinfar; 04-07-2016 at 01:15 PM.
    Give one F2P game to a Korean: He will turn it in a P2W (pay to win)
    Give one F2P to an American: He will turn it in a P2F (Pay to fail)
    Nutaku ID: 454836

  9. #9
    you guys are really making things too deep it is not about ToS violation or anything like that because I know a lot friends from long time who are sharing accounts no single one is banned .

    it simple matter : wrong detection of fraud caused by retarded fraud-phobic probiller system .

    see the picture and you will know what I mean .

    . and it is their mistake not mine they did not say they fail to support multi source payment.

    they claim that a payment was done with no balance ( fake) and they said the payment was refunded and check your bank!??!!?

    how can I be refunded if it is fake in the first place ?!

    the payment was true I am sure of it and not refunded yet I talked to my friends and they got nothing back .

    so now it is clear I was wrongfully detected as fraud because of things they were shy to say as ( dear customer we currently are fucked up and fail to handle multi source payment from different IPs because it will be detected as fraud you can wait for us to develop a little ) got banned by probiller retarded system-capture.png

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Ladies lover View Post
    you guys are really making things too deep it is not about ToS violation or anything like that because I know a lot friends from long time who are sharing accounts no single one is banned .

    it simple matter : wrong detection of fraud caused by retarded fraud-phobic probiller system .

    see the picture and you will know what I mean .

    . and it is their mistake not mine they did not say they fail to support multi source payment.

    they claim that a payment was done with no balance ( fake) and they said the payment was refunded and check your bank!??!!?

    how can I be refunded if it is fake in the first place ?!

    the payment was true I am sure of it and not refunded yet I talked to my friends and they got nothing back .

    so now it is clear I was wrongfully detected as fraud because of things they were shy to say as ( dear customer we currently are fucked up and fail to handle multi source payment from different IPs because it will be detected as fraud you can wait for us to develop a little ) got banned by probiller retarded system-capture.png
    I think they can and did make an argument that it IS a ToS violation. I think it's a stupid rule, but it looks like they changed their policy regarding sharing of accounts. I agree that the payment is what got you flagged, but once they looked at you, they saw the ToS thing. Again, I personally see nothing wrong with sharing accounts if that's your thing, but I can see them interpreting the rules to say that sharing accounts is a ToS violation. It just depends on if you want to be really strict and use a "letter of the law" reading.

    The bigger issue is if they want to say that you can't share accounts, then the enforcement is not evenhanded at all. They seem to loosely enforce the rules until they don't. When they DO enforce them, they crucify you.

    I think you certainly got a raw deal. They are ENTIRELY justified in screwing you, but that doesn't really make it a good decision. But then again, according to the ToS, they can ban anyone for any reason. They don't have to tell you why.

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