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PhalzyrD
05-06-2016, 09:38 AM
While reading the post about making a squad specifically for fighting bosses I realized there are many "Friends" that are similar level to me but have 30K helper squad. Yes I n the squad I use I equalize my power, but for my primary squad I put my most powerful people (counting equipment not just power level alone I wish equip was calculated in power level or shown) on the that team.

I tend to have my primary squad a bit stronger than others so on the squad I use to do mission have it at 64K power and others around 45K) However my helper squad is now 84K with my 5 evolved units.

How many other people are doing this, or find this helpful if I'm your friend? if not think it'd be helpful from those that are your friends.

I know when I first started I was just playing, but now that I'm waiting more than playing I have time to think about organizing my team and such.

Nydaomond
05-06-2016, 10:21 AM
I'm not you Ally, so cannot speak of your Helper in particular, but let me clarify one point xD

The Power you see when choosing an Helper is a lot lower than the effective Power of the Squad; from what i understood (mostly readin' around the forum, tbh) Affection bonus is not counted in Helper Squad power (they still get the Affection + to stats, but it doesn't show you the bonus). Equipment, as you said, doesn't add to Power to begin with.
That said.. Yeah, 30k is low. It's probably a real 40-45k at most (likely less, though).

Anyway, the way you're doing it is usually how it is suggested to do, and i guess that's what most people do (and should do); so, yes, it's actually very helpful to your friends. Exceptions might exist, though; for instance, say, having a weaker Toad Lily in your Helper can be more helpful in a lot of maps (yes, 12-5, i'm thinking of you) than having an higher-power Knight in her place, even if the overall Power ends up lower. This depends on the girls you have, though. Also, barring the current event, it's nice to have 500+ Speed Helpers, imo.

As a final note, since I'm an odd one, i don't use a separate Set for most missions, but simply stick to Set 1 with full-power Squad 1. Gotta love the raw firepower.

Ancarius
05-06-2016, 10:42 AM
The Total Power sort function does include the affection bonus. My Olive is the only 3* i have with 100% aff, or any at all, and she gets sortet into squad 3, even though i have 4* with roughly 10 levels higher, that get sorted lower. Equipment would need further testing.

Nydaomond
05-06-2016, 10:52 AM
The Total Power sort function does include the affection bonus. My Olive is the only 3* i have with 100% aff, or any at all, and she gets sortet into squad 3, even though i have 4* with roughly 10 levels higher, that get sorted lower. Equipment would need further testing.

I know it works for your own Squads, I said i think it doesn't show for your Allies' Helper Squads (although it's counted in the player total power, oddly enough) xD

Equipment is easy to test: put a single 2* or 3* with 4 equip slot in a team (alone). Give her random equipment. Remove all equipment. Power doesn't change. Hence, Equipment isn't factored into Squad Power.

PhalzyrD
05-06-2016, 10:57 AM
Exceptions might exist, though; for instance, say, having a weaker Toad Lily in your Helper can be more helpful in a lot of maps (yes, 12-5, i'm thinking of you) than having an higher-power Knight in her place, even if the overall Power ends up lower. This depends on the girls you have, though. Also, barring the current event, it's nice to have 500+ Speed Helpers, imo.
AH my helper squad is 452 speed do to the slow evolved 3* (she's more powerful than others due to equip) I should work on that next, I will be evolving another 4* soon once I get her affection up higher. Too many want bears...

Don't have toad lily or web avoid girl either...


I know it works for your own Squads, I said i think it doesn't show for your Allies' Helper Squads (although it's counted in the player total power, oddly enough) xD

Equipment is easy to test: put a single 2* or 3* with 4 equip slot in a team (alone). Give her random equipment. Remove all equipment. Power doesn't change. Hence, Equipment isn't factored into Squad Power.

I understood what you meant :D, I know equipment doesn't that why I mentioned taking it into account over power level... Someone that has all 4 slots open can be much more powerful than they look. Even power level wise without equipment counted my evolved 3* is stronger than un-evolved 5* Didn't think about speed when I evolved her, seems all my evolved but one is slow lol

I have another 5* also red so not even using her yet, as way to many other reds needing resources. Though she is faster unit hmmm.

Nydaomond
05-06-2016, 11:56 AM
Was just mentioning Toad Lily as an easy example (i don't have her either T^T), but 452 Speed shouldn't be too bad until you can level up some faster unit.
However, do try to max your 5*'s affection and level/evolve her before other lower-rarity Slice-type knights - the difference in stats, affection bonus, battle skills, and abilities with lower-rarity girls is usually pretty huge, even if they can use less Equip. Besides, even if i don't know what 5* you have, both Slice 5* are really good units~

PhalzyrD
05-06-2016, 12:58 PM
However, do try to max your 5*'s affection and level/evolve her before other lower-rarity Slice-type knights - the difference in stats, affection bonus, battle skills, and abilities with lower-rarity girls is usually pretty huge, even if they can use less Equip. Besides, even if i don't know what 5* you have, both Slice 5* are really good units~

Yes Two of my 5*s are evolved and maxed affection third I just got and affection should be easy to max as she isn't a bear favorite... Camellia. I already have dragons for two other girls no red dragons... but next red bloom run :D. I have Orchard at level 44 evolved, was wanting to get her up above 50 but think I will focus on Camellia until she is evovled. Then when I get Edelweiss focus on her :D

Skyleo
05-06-2016, 01:36 PM
Also, remember that "total power" is not everything :

http://i.harem-battle.club/images/2016/05/06/zlTwxi98.png
http://i.harem-battle.club/images/2016/05/06/V5rMmJ.pnghttp://i.harem-battle.club/images/2016/05/06/OCR0z.pnghttp://i.harem-battle.club/images/2016/05/06/c0u7Qqxe.png
Here, you can see that my Violet is "only" my 4th unit... But that's only cuz' the other girls have more HP than her (while she has a huge Atk/Def)


And yeah, if you have toad lily, take her on your helper squad, even if she's low lvl

PhalzyrD
05-06-2016, 02:10 PM
Yeah I understand power isn't everything. Just realized I evolved Hibiscus and she has better stats than my 3* evovled so swapped her out and speed went up nicely :D

Lied
05-06-2016, 05:55 PM
I'd also add that I'm currently prioritizing slice/pierce units on my helper squad if I can, since they're the most useful for helping people farm 12-5, and for the other maps, any strong helper squad works fine (besides weird speed requirements for 3 medals).


http://i.imgur.com/SmhZGMg.png
I'm even considering switching in Yulan for Lavender, but the 3k power difference and Lavender being skill level 5/4 equip slots (Yulan is only skill level 3/3 equip slots) makes me hesitate. It's probably worth it though, for the slice damage type bonus and the ~80 speed I'd get.

Also, ampies seem to be counted for my own power numbers since they just add to the characters stats (like affection), but I'm not sure if they're counted when allies see helper squads. It's really annoying that equipment doesn't show on power though, since it makes it hard to gauge actual strength. My Canola is +1247 ATK, +564 DEF from her equips alone, making her a lot stronger than the power numbers show. Are we sure equipment carries over to helper squads? It would change a lot for me if it didn't.




Here, you can see that my Violet is "only" my 4th unit... But that's only cuz' the other girls have more HP than her (while she has a huge Atk/Def)


I'm starting to prefer high HP as the best stat to have, since it's the only one we can't increase with equipment and gives staying power over multiple fights. I noticed my Violetta Tulip dying first very often when I had her in my squad, despite her having around 700-800 more defense than characters like my St. Paulia, because that defense just couldn't make up for having 3k less HP.

EDIT: OK yeah, this looks much better
http://i.imgur.com/kHS7Ux0.png
It already hurt bringing along Bipina with her 215 speed and Paulia with 345, throwing in Lavender just made my squad move like a snail (thankfully somewhat saved by Orchid). Hopefully my allies won't care about slightly less power in exchange for movespeed and another slice unit.

Nydaomond
05-06-2016, 06:25 PM
Also, ampies seem to be counted for my own power numbers since they just add to the characters stats (like affection), but I'm not sure if they're counted when allies see helper squads. It's really annoying that equipment doesn't show on power though, since it makes it hard to gauge actual strength. My Canola is +1247 ATK, +564 DEF from her equips alone, making her a lot stronger than the power numbers show. Are we sure equipment carries over to helper squads? It would change a lot for me if it didn't.

Kind of hard to confirm, but since there are Helpers which seem to perform a lot better than they should, even assuming Affection, i'd think Equip is carried over by Helpers. About Ampy's: not the slightest clue whether they're counted in or not >.<

Also, yeah, totally agreed on the HP. Feeling that with Cepha myself - having low HP makes her feel way too squishy, regardless of DEF =/

Zenithale
05-06-2016, 07:42 PM
EDIT: OK yeah, this looks much better
http://i.imgur.com/kHS7Ux0.png
You have a nice team, mine is still far to that Power.
But I would change the order or your Knights: first AoE users (Bipina and Yulan) then the HP Stealer (Orchid) and at the end the single target strikers (St Paulia and Canola).

Mine is only 80k Power for now (Level 71):
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee87/zenithale/Helper_zpsogrurom0.png

Lied
05-06-2016, 08:20 PM
You have a nice team, mine is still far to that Power.
But I would change the order or your Knights: first AoE users (Bipina and Yulan) then the HP Stealer (Orchid) and at the end the single target strikers (St Paulia and Canola).


For most of my teams I use that order (AoE, HP Steal, Single Target, Multi-Hit (like triple drill or double thrust)), but I keep Canola in front because she's my hardest hitter with over 6k ATK and I want to make sure all of her damage gets used. If my AoE users don't use their skills and use single hit attacks, it sometimes results in damage being wasted if Canola needs to finish off a weakened enemy. If she's first, she always gets a full damage hit in, and then either the AoE goes off and everything dies anyway, or it doesn't go off and they use their weaker attacks to finish people off. Example of something I kept seeing which is why I switched:

2 enemies, A and B

AoE units first:

Bipina hits A
Yulan hits A (A is low)
Canola hits A (A dies)
or
Bipna uses AoE
Yulan hits A (A is low)
Canola hits A (A dies)

Canola first:

Canola hits A (A is low)
Bipina hits A (A dies)
Yulan hits B
or
Canola hits A (A is low)
Bipna uses AoE (A dies)
Yulan hits B

Basically, it helps in the cases where the AoE doesn't trigger, and if the AoE does trigger everything is usually dying anyway. For my other teams none of the units are that much stronger than the other so I just use a normal order since there's less of an overkill problem.



Mine is only 80k Power for now (Level 71):
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee87/zenithale/Helper_zpsogrurom0.png

I'd probably put Marigold last in that squad, since triple drill can hit different enemies and can finish off a weakened enemy and then do damage to another one (less wasted damage).

Zenithale
05-06-2016, 08:49 PM
OK, I understand your point of view.
I like to use AoE and Marigold Skill first to kill the low-HP enemies before my single target strikers hit the other(s). Most of the time my battles last ~3 rounds, I am sure I would use a different order if they would last less or more. Hard to say which order is better, in fact what I have learned for the past weeks of play is that RNG rules the Maps as well as the Battles, so I/we should not bother my/our-self too much with that. But I liked your input, so I will try different orders.

Lied
05-06-2016, 09:24 PM
Yeah at the end of the day, unit order either doesn't really matter or is just playing the odds. I guess I should add that most of the way I have things set up is for farming 12-5, where there are those nodes with the small pest (sometimes pierce-weak) along with the slice-weak boss. I kept getting into situations similar to my example, so I switched and found it worked better for me.

Discoceris
05-07-2016, 12:31 AM
I know some players are doing that on purpose for trolling. I usually kick them out, especially if I see them continually replacing 3★, 4★, 5★, and 6★ high level girls with low level fodder crap (they usually do this right before they log off the game). My list usually runs 10 deep with 100K+, so it's not like I'm hurting for those trolls.

http://i.imgur.com/5mMVqaK.png

You can tell when they're trolling. Study your Ally Power list. If the helper squad's power is less than 20% of their total ally power (e.g., 20K helper when their total is 100K), they're trolling you.

Unregistered
07-19-2016, 06:02 AM
Why i cant finish second phase in 80 stamina, in Urgent Mission. When in end then it goes error and reset page, but u lost all stamina still

JessMini
07-19-2016, 06:20 AM
Why i cant finish second phase in 80 stamina, in Urgent Mission. When in end then it goes error and reset page, but u lost all stamina still

I like how you dug up a really really old thread to ask a question that's being discussed in the current event thread. :3

IvanLedah21
07-19-2016, 08:02 AM
Well, AFAIK I don't have any of the really useful field effect girls (Edelweiss, Toad Lilly, Chocolate Cosmos, etc.) so I just keep my 3 rainbows (BB, Anemone and Flowering Peach, all evolved) in my helper team so my allies get a nice power boost regardless XD
The other two units in the team are evolved, not in-game to check which ones but on MY screen Squad Power is around 90k. FL is full though, do u ever get more than 30 friends allowed?

Skyehmm
07-19-2016, 10:08 AM
... FL is full though, do u ever get more than 30 friends allowed?

Yes, from level 110 you'll get one more spot and for every 10 levels from that point you will get another, up to level 150. 35 spots should be the max at this point.

IvanLedah21
07-19-2016, 11:53 AM
Yes, from level 110 you'll get one more spot and for every 10 levels from that point you will get another, up to level 150. 35 spots should be the max at this point.

Ouch, I'm like level 75ish, and I'm not going to get any more spots 'til 110? Ah well. Still, I like helping people and I think people like having a helper squad that has 3 evolved 6*s (though I often look for Edelweiss/Toad Lily combo for any map that's going to last a while and has lots of nests, like the Mission 12/13 maps; event maps often can just be powered through with high-power squads), but all 30 of my friends have a last-logged-in of 1 day or less, so don't see any reason to kick them. If I notice any1 consistently nuking raid bosses on the other hand...

flink
07-19-2016, 04:03 PM
I think people like having a helper squad that has 3 evolved 6*s .

That's a really nice helper squad! :cool:

Ikki
07-19-2016, 04:38 PM
If any ally i have reaches de 1 day+ cap, i insta delete him, i like to have really active players

IvanLedah21
07-20-2016, 08:15 AM
If any ally i have reaches de 1 day+ cap, i insta delete him, i like to have really active players

Same, I always seem to have 1 or 2 players with a request and a maxed out FL so if a player on my list hits 2 days or more inactive, bye bye lol. Main reason I asked if we ever get more than 30 as max. Really though, level 110? That sucks, I just hit 80 this morning and... ugh, will be quite a while before I hit 110.

flink
07-22-2016, 03:01 PM
Are we sure equipment carries over to helper squads? It would change a lot for me if it didn't.

I've got confirmation that the equipement affect helper squad.

This is a test using Yuki Yanagi and Heliconia as a helper squad:
When used by an ally,
Lv1 Yuki (450 ATK) does ~200 damage,
Lv1 Heliconia (440 ATK) with a ring+10 LvMax (+1507 ATK) does ~700 damage.

Lied
07-22-2016, 07:58 PM
I've got confirmation that the equipement affect helper squad.

This is a test using Yuki Yanagi and Heliconia as a helper squad:
When used by an ally,
Lv1 Yuki (450 ATK) does ~200 damage,
Lv1 Heliconia (440 ATK) with a ring+10 LvMax (+1507 ATK) does ~700 damage.

Good to know that the girls blinged out with max level +10s actually makes a difference. Thanks for testing it out.

moarsi
07-23-2016, 10:46 AM
Well damn I didn't know that equipment carries over to helper squads. Guess I'd better start actually bothering with equipment, I haven't touched either the equipment menu or the gacha for over a month now :S