What to do next? [Archive]

Worange

05-30-2016, 03:29 PM

Unregistered

05-30-2016, 05:15 PM

Okay, I have been playing Aigis for some months now, but got stuck with a lot of things to do after AW arrived and don't know what to focus. So, I am looking for advices and this place looks receptive for it. ღ･ω･ღ
My doubts are mostly about:

1) Invest in a new character for the main team (Imelia, Hina, Shizuka, Waltz, Yuyu, Betty, Julian, Ertel, Khuri)
2) Keep leveling the already CC/AWed army (Saki, Sherry, Elizabeth, Rachel, Horace, Rachel, Rita, Cypria, Lynn, Cloris, Shao)
3) AW someone (Despara, Deine, Claudia, Rachel, Bashira, Rita, Barbastroff, Fedora) Note: only 100 DCs at the moment.
4) CR/SU goldies/silvers (Iris, Kerry*, Barbastroff*, Khuri, Pallis, Elaine) *After AW
5) Who do I feed rainbows
6) Something else?

1356 1357
1st, you're gonna need a 2nd mage.Most event map nowaday require 2 mage to clear(heck even the current subjugation map require you have 2 mage to clear 500 kills).
2nd, if you can, definitely AW Deine, she is a godsend-tank, the rest is rather optional.
3rd, I see that you has no Val and that's a crucial unit in Subjugation so you might wanna at least min-costed Elaine with what you have( and Pallis as well, since AFF give more bonus than trust).If you have Elizabeth then Khuri is pretty much optional, still with a dancer Khuri has a lot of effective damage compare to archer of same rank in trade of range.
4th, SAW ain't gonna coming any time soon, so it's your choice

lolix

05-30-2016, 05:48 PM

first of all , congratz. That's a very impressive lineup. Deine , despara , elizabeth , sherry ? Yes pls. That being said , this is going to be a detalied response , so prepare for a wall of text.

Now , to answer your questions :

1. I'll go by importance order (in my opinion ofc) :

Imelia is a great duelist to have and while you have a very impressive ranged line up , your duelist squad is kinda slim , considering you have just sherry , claudia and condrad.

Edit : forgot kerry. Still , not a really high impact duelist either.
EDIT 2 : didn't noticed that Imelia is just at cr 3 >>>> why was i under the impression she was at 1 cr ? Regardless , she's not max cr , but generally event units break even in cost at 2 cr. She still have the stats so this becomes your choice. SHe would be harder to field , but once on field , she is sitll a ball of stats. But if you feel that cc-ing is not worth on a non max cr duelist , you might put that on hold

Sherry is a good general duelist , but the other 2 are a bit more specialized , and generally more usefull vs liches or mages (or dragons i guess) , or very high armor/resistances because of claudia's true damage/condrad's very high damage (even tho he loses defense)
You can never go wrong with leveling another duelist. As charles (was it charles or lafate?) said a while back , you can never have enough duelists. I kinda agree.

Waltz. dancers are good units ,and seeing the only other we have right now is premium , and the other event dancer (that we haven't gotten yet - hana - but she's an entirely different beast so , i'd go with waltz right now) , aren't really viable options , i'd level waltz. Oh , also , the greatest abusers of dancer buffs are units that can hit either with aoe or with multiple hits. Lucky for you , you got elizabeth (which already has dps compared to nanaly ). Place waltz near her , and see things die. I would also get waltz leveled as soon as possible.

Yuyu is a personal favorite of mine , and she is a really good witch to have , seeing as she's an elf (increase attack speed and attack damage ) and she's also a gold. She would benefit greatly from sherry's passive for example (she already has dps comparable to belinda which is a plat. I think she might be higher actually) , but luckly for you , you got despara , she's not a priority right now. She might be usefull in the future tho.

Also , i would level another soldier (probably julien) because we're going to need 2 soldiers in the future aparently (i've yet to have a map that required me to deploy 2 soldiers , but dmm veterans do advise to have 2 gold+ anyway)

Also , i would raise another iris (if you have no problem with raising duplicates). Fedora is quite a bit worse then iris untill her SAW. And having just 1 fedora , 1 iris and 1 alissa , seems a bit weak. Ofc , there are others that dislikes duplicates and would advise cr/su-ing main iris. Cheap to deploy healers is not a general bad idea either , so that;s up to you , but i'd go with second iris.

2. First of all , i dunno why do u have sooo much archers. I personally see very little point on cc-ing and raising something like Shao , if i'd have spica,bashira and elizabeth , and the black archer whose name i can't remember for some reason. Spica and bashira are the golden sntadard. Getting elizabeth is great. Getting 2 more archers after them is a bit pointless , seeing that we will rarely have maps that will require (or have the slots at that) for 4 archers and 1 VH.

Now to answer , your base question , yes i would keep leveling the cc-ed/AW-ed units , untill 40 or 50 then only use armors with triple fairies. That's the most efficient way to level up without wasting gold.

3. Rachel gains 15 range. Pretty meh IMO. Claudia gets a bit more damage vs dragons (1.3 instead 1.2) which is so situational that i wouldn't even bother. Barbi and cyrus aw's are rather meh as well. They will get better after SAW tho. Fedora's AW is meh as well. As i said , cheaper healers are good , but to awaken an unit for 1 cr....not sure if gusta.

Now let's talk what i would awaken :

a. Imelia - she will buff both herself and condrad , and she is a very good general duelist
b. Deine. SHe becomes more expensive but gets even more base defense , which works great with bernice's passive. You want an imortal tank ? this is it. Only better alternative being gellius , but that guy can just take a beating. Deine can also dish out.
c. Despara - she gains attack speed , which might not seem much , but at the amount of damage she naturally does , she becomes a pretty damn high dpser after AW. + she gets a god damn panther.

4. Not a priority. You won't really really need min costed silvers that often. Maybe an ocasional soldier or caliopee , but those are not must have priorities. I actually kinda like khuri and shes a great silver , but with yoyr ranged prowess , i dunno if you really need her. especially since archers are pretty damn cheap to place , and even if cost would be somewhat of a problem , i'd rather place a max cost elizabeth then a min costed khuri.

Seriously , don't even bother with this point right now. U will have time in the future to think for yourself. Hell , u might even want to cr and SU kerry before min cost a silver , since she actually gets buffed by sherry and having a cheap valk is not a bad ideea (they are meant to be placed early anyway)

5. keep rainbows till SAW. And if space is a problem , generally try feeding them to units with abilities that get signifiantly better with levels (aka ones that increase damage/defense/etc) by a certain procent , rather then units that get ....dunno , let's say cd reduction from them

6. Okay , i gave u a lot of points , so ill put everything in order , as i would do it :

Id start with power leveling imelia >power level waltz > awaken imelia > level iris > level julien > awaken deine/despara(at your discretion). Then just level normally your other units

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1st, you're gonna need a 2nd mage.Most event map nowaday require 2 mage to clear(heck even the current subjugation map require you have 2 mage to clear 500 kills).
2nd, if you can, definitely AW Deine, she is a godsend-tank, the rest is rather optional.
3rd, I see that you has no Val and that's a crucial unit in Subjugation so you might wanna at least min-costed Elaine with what you have( and Pallis as well, since AFF give more bonus than trust).If you have Elizabeth then Khuri is pretty much optional, still with a dancer Khuri has a lot of effective damage compare to archer of same rank in trade of range.
4th, SAW ain't gonna coming any time soon, so it's your choice

He has 2 mages (cyrus/barbi) and he has kerry as a valk. missed it as well first time

switch

05-30-2016, 06:26 PM

Wouldnt even worry about 2 gold soliders lol looks like this guy spends. With 2 plat soilders in gacha now it's only a matter of time

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Or wait for aria revival if we ever get it

Worange

05-30-2016, 07:13 PM

Well, that's a great wall of text and cleared a lot of things, so it's alright <3

I don't spend anymore, did it just one time in the beginning to buy unit space + barrack + few summons.
Imelia is -3CR 7/10, I was exactly wondering if isn't better to level up Shizuka because of that, but I would also need to give her some rainbows. For now just chaging the power level order Waltz > Imelia, she is the one I have copies to feed after all, just a little sad by her eating two healers when CCed o3o

The only reason I didn't leveled second Iris yet is the hope for Chydis back in TP

lolix

05-30-2016, 07:37 PM

yeah , it's 4 am here. Dunno why i was under the impression imelia was at 1 cr. As i edited my previous post , event units break event at 2cr with premium summons , so she might be worth using then

Edit : shizuka is samurai , which costs 24 up to field. They fit entirely different roles in a team anyway , so go imelia. That being said , samurai in general are some of the more niche units in aigis. RIght now there are very few things they can do that other units can't do better somehow.

That being said , shizuka is probably the best samurai in the game right now, so there is that...

Unregistered

05-30-2016, 08:02 PM

first of all , congratz. That's a very impressive lineup. Deine , despara , elizabeth , sherry ? Yes pls. That being said , this is going to be a detalied response , so prepare for a wall of text.

Now , to answer your questions :

1. I'll go by importance order (in my opinion ofc) :

Imelia is a great duelist to have and while you have a very impressive ranged line up , your duelist squad is kinda slim , considering you have just sherry , claudia and condrad.

Edit : forgot kerry. Still , not a really high impact duelist either.
EDIT 2 : didn't noticed that Imelia is just at cr 3 >>>> why was i under the impression she was at 1 cr ? Regardless , she's not max cr , but generally event units break even in cost at 2 cr. She still have the stats so this becomes your choice. SHe would be harder to field , but once on field , she is sitll a ball of stats. But if you feel that cc-ing is not worth on a non max cr duelist , you might put that on hold

Sherry is a good general duelist , but the other 2 are a bit more specialized , and generally more usefull vs liches or mages (or dragons i guess) , or very high armor/resistances because of claudia's true damage/condrad's very high damage (even tho he loses defense)
You can never go wrong with leveling another duelist. As charles (was it charles or lafate?) said a while back , you can never have enough duelists. I kinda agree.

Waltz. dancers are good units ,and seeing the only other we have right now is premium , and the other event dancer (that we haven't gotten yet - hana - but she's an entirely different beast so , i'd go with waltz right now) , aren't really viable options , i'd level waltz. Oh , also , the greatest abusers of dancer buffs are units that can hit either with aoe or with multiple hits. Lucky for you , you got elizabeth (which already has dps compared to nanaly ). Place waltz near her , and see things die. I would also get waltz leveled as soon as possible.

Yuyu is a personal favorite of mine , and she is a really good witch to have , seeing as she's an elf (increase attack speed and attack damage ) and she's also a gold. She would benefit greatly from sherry's passive for example (she already has dps comparable to belinda which is a plat. I think she might be higher actually) , but luckly for you , you got despara , she's not a priority right now. She might be usefull in the future tho.

Also , i would level another soldier (probably julien) because we're going to need 2 soldiers in the future aparently (i've yet to have a map that required me to deploy 2 soldiers , but dmm veterans do advise to have 2 gold+ anyway)

Also , i would raise another iris (if you have no problem with raising duplicates). Fedora is quite a bit worse then iris untill her SAW. And having just 1 fedora , 1 iris and 1 alissa , seems a bit weak. Ofc , there are others that dislikes duplicates and would advise cr/su-ing main iris. Cheap to deploy healers is not a general bad idea either , so that;s up to you , but i'd go with second iris.

2. First of all , i dunno why do u have sooo much archers. I personally see very little point on cc-ing and raising something like Shao , if i'd have spica,bashira and elizabeth , and the black archer whose name i can't remember for some reason. Spica and bashira are the golden sntadard. Getting elizabeth is great. Getting 2 more archers after them is a bit pointless , seeing that we will rarely have maps that will require (or have the slots at that) for 4 archers and 1 VH.

Now to answer , your base question , yes i would keep leveling the cc-ed/AW-ed units , untill 40 or 50 then only use armors with triple fairies. That's the most efficient way to level up without wasting gold.

3. Rachel gains 15 range. Pretty meh IMO. Claudia gets a bit more damage vs dragons (1.3 instead 1.2) which is so situational that i wouldn't even bother. Barbi and cyrus aw's are rather meh as well. They will get better after SAW tho. Fedora's AW is meh as well. As i said , cheaper healers are good , but to awaken an unit for 1 cr....not sure if gusta.

Now let's talk what i would awaken :

a. Imelia - she will buff both herself and condrad , and she is a very good general duelist
b. Deine. SHe becomes more expensive but gets even more base defense , which works great with bernice's passive. You want an imortal tank ? this is it. Only better alternative being gellius , but that guy can just take a beating. Deine can also dish out.
c. Despara - she gains attack speed , which might not seem much , but at the amount of damage she naturally does , she becomes a pretty damn high dpser after AW. + she gets a god damn panther.

4. Not a priority. You won't really really need min costed silvers that often. Maybe an ocasional soldier or caliopee , but those are not must have priorities. I actually kinda like khuri and shes a great silver , but with yoyr ranged prowess , i dunno if you really need her. especially since archers are pretty damn cheap to place , and even if cost would be somewhat of a problem , i'd rather place a max cost elizabeth then a min costed khuri.

Seriously , don't even bother with this point right now. U will have time in the future to think for yourself. Hell , u might even want to cr and SU kerry before min cost a silver , since she actually gets buffed by sherry and having a cheap valk is not a bad ideea (they are meant to be placed early anyway)

5. keep rainbows till SAW. And if space is a problem , generally try feeding them to units with abilities that get signifiantly better with levels (aka ones that increase damage/defense/etc) by a certain procent , rather then units that get ....dunno , let's say cd reduction from them

6. Okay , i gave u a lot of points , so ill put everything in order , as i would do it :

Id start with power leveling imelia >power level waltz > awaken imelia > level iris > level julien > awaken deine/despara(at your discretion). Then just level normally your other units

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He has 2 mages (cyrus/barbi) and he has kerry as a valk. missed it as well first time
My bad.Should have specific that you need to leveling and CC a 2nd mage, given that their range is crap non-CCed

switch

05-30-2016, 08:07 PM

He has 2 lvled cc'ed mages

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Please do not comment on posts if you haven't even fully looked over his units.

lolix

05-30-2016, 08:08 PM

My bad.Should have specific that you need to leveling and CC a 2nd mage, given that their range is crap non-CCed

First of all , did you just quoted that entire wall of text just to say that , considering there are literally 4 people in this thread , and 1 is the op ?

Second , look at his units again. He has 2 cc-ed max level mages , 1 being babastrof and 1 being cyrus.

NotThatGuy

05-30-2016, 08:17 PM

So, figured I'd weigh in and expand on what lolix said. I tend to agree with most of the points, but thought I'd bring up the following.

Yuyu is a personal favorite of mine , and she is a really good witch to have , seeing as she's an elf (increase attack speed and attack damage ) and she's also a gold. She would benefit greatly from sherry's passive for example (she already has dps comparable to belinda which is a plat. I think she might be higher actually) , but luckly for you , you got despara , she's not a priority right now. She might be usefull in the future tho.

Yuyu is good. Not only is she a gold, and thus potentially cheaper, her skill awaken makes her cheaper still, and maxed out she deals 497 base damage compared to Belinda's 396 (and as a gold she benefits from Sherry's awaken ability). Not to mention, if you ever manage to get an Olivie, once awakened she'll cost the same as a silver witch of the same CR.

Also , i would raise another iris (if you have no problem with raising duplicates). Fedora is quite a bit worse then iris untill her SAW. And having just 1 fedora , 1 iris and 1 alissa , seems a bit weak. Ofc , there are others that dislikes duplicates and would advise cr/su-ing main iris. Cheap to deploy healers is not a general bad idea either , so that;s up to you , but i'd go with second iris.

On leveling a second Iris vs Fedore, my personal suggestion would be to CR your main Iris, and level Fedora. The reason is that while Iris is generally better, the two have slightly different roles. Iris is more of a burst healer due to her skill, while Fedora has higher base healing (21 more attack to be precise), and once awakened is cheaper to deploy.

Now to answer , your base question , yes i would keep leveling the cc-ed/AW-ed units , untill 40 or 50 then only use armors with triple fairies. That's the most efficient way to level up without wasting gold.

On the one about leveling CC'd/AW'd units to 40 to 50, I would specify that you should aim for experience values that will put you close what you would need to evenly level up to max with plat armours and spirits without wasting more xp than needed. You can find the tables for that here (http://harem-battle.club/millennium-war-aigis/33-experience-platinum-armor-tables.html). I usually go to the first one that is 50 or higher personally.

Now let's talk what i would awaken :

a. Imelia - she will buff both herself and condrad , and she is a very good general duelist
b. Deine. SHe becomes more expensive but gets even more base defense , which works great with bernice's passive. You want an imortal tank ? this is it. Only better alternative being gellius , but that guy can just take a beating. Deine can also dish out.
c. Despara - she gains attack speed , which might not seem much , but at the amount of damage she naturally does , she becomes a pretty damn high dpser after AW. + she gets a god damn panther.

I would add to the list of units that benefit greatly from awakening, Saki, who not only attacks faster, but also has her cost reduced by 4.

5. keep rainbows till SAW. And if space is a problem , generally try feeding them to units with abilities that get signifiantly better with levels (aka ones that increase damage/defense/etc) by a certain procent , rather then units that get ....dunno , let's say cd reduction from them

On the note of using Rainbow spirits, there isn't really a need to wait for SAW if you already know what the SAW is for the unit and plan to use it. Or if as noted the unit already will benefit greatly from skill levels. That said, try to avoid using them when the skill can be readily obtained without the fairies (for instance, if the Big Adventure Anna star event does actually happen soon, you can farm Gadoras, who has the same skill as Despara when CC'd). Additionally, it is most cost effective to use Rainbow spirits on level 1 units, such as just after CCing or awakening since while they do not give experience, their cost still is dependant on the level of the unit. A level 1 unit will cost 200 gold to feed a Rainbow spirit, a level 40 unit will cost 1760. That said, don't be to worried about keeping to that if you already awakened the unit or have a unit with the same skill to feed to it first.

Worange

05-30-2016, 08:22 PM

I should've organized it by class tho, but then there would be a lot of irons/bronzies messing up in the middle
Turns out this was the best way I found to screenshot >_>

lolix

05-30-2016, 08:28 PM

belinda has 313 base + 120 aff bonus damage = 433 pre AW. 376+120 = 496 Post AW at max level.

Yuyu has 319+ 108 aff = 427 pre AW. 389 +108 post = 497 post.

She will still benefit from sherry's passive , and as i know it , she also has faster attack speed , so she is all around a better dpser then belinda , but i'd rate belinda's AW passive over yuyu's

Worange

09-27-2016, 01:29 PM

Okay, time has passed and I have made some improvement. Some AWs were delayed and others advanced for the sake of three star clear G daily missions. Now there are new options to think about, would be good to hear more thoughts about team comp and AW/CC/Lv Up order. I'll separate it in:

1) Already AWed (just for extra info on what have been done)
1970

2) Plan to AW but unsure when or order
1971

3) Possible new investiments
1972

Note: I'm waiting for an event that drops Gadoras to skill UP Despara after AW, that's the main reason she's delayed

Davion

09-27-2016, 01:41 PM

I would say - invest in shuka (if you don't have uzume) also ertel (for this "once in a while" situations), awakening, maybe cypria or horace (if you use her often). You could also awaken despara and second bow. Currently, Gadoras can be rolled on base and SP summon (not premium-rare), so you can try your luck : )

IvanLedah21

09-27-2016, 02:25 PM

My opinions are Saki (ranged melee with fast attack speed and ranged assassinate), Solano (cheaper mage but can only attack during skill, AW ability speeds up attacking), Claudia (True Damage upon Skill AW, this one's long term since you have Imelia, Sherry and Kerry for duelists already AW), Despara (attack speed up on a high attack, slow-inflicting unit is great), Shuka as you don't have Uzume (team-wide attack boosting skill, reduce deployment costs is helpful even if it's not what it was once hyped to be and she's essentially a cheaper, weaker samurai for fighting) and Yuyu (cheaper alternative to Despara, she has Platinum level attack for Gold -1 cost and Range Up is helpful in some maps, like War of Magic)

Priority Order IMO:
Despara > Solano > Saki > Shuka > Yuyu > Claudia

Reasoning: the first three are already in position to be AW given their max level status and you're lacking in magic damage (which is why Saki is 3rd as ranged melee isn't needed as often as magic damage); with Despara AW, Yuyu shifts down a slot below Shuka (Shuka's AW's only benefit besides making her a stronger fighter is an extra -1 to deployment cost of any units deployed after her while she's still out), with Claudia last due to your duelists being adequate and her biggest draw (Skill AW) not yet implemented.

Ertel is an option for melee slot heal, and Rita is a long-term investment like Claudia (except she's niche in usage). Bashira's AW bonus is iffy but she's an option since she IS stronger than Rita as an archer, but I might take Rachel instead for ranged physical damage.

lolix

09-27-2016, 06:30 PM

;Priority Order IMO:
Despara > Solano > Saki > Shuka > Yuyu > Claudia

This here. He already gave u some good arguments , that i also support. Despara is an incredible dps unit for a witch , and solano is also insane. As for saki , shuka and yuyu ...well its a toss up depending on which one u need first. Idstill awaken all 3 since they are good units....well , yuyu is not a priority tho , since u have despara.

That being said , i dont care much for claudia since u already have a sherry for a princess , but extra stats on your true damage duelist is not bad either. Still not entirely a priority

kayfabe

09-27-2016, 06:33 PM

IvanLedah21

09-28-2016, 07:22 AM

I didn't have the patience to hold off for Gadoras before SUin'g up Despara since so much of her usefulness is tied up into that 1.9 attack power buff. Belinda and Yuyu get all the press for being good at Wall of Magic but Adele and Despara are the only witches with enough oomph to really stay relevant in my book.

Yuyu's attack at AW80 is 535. Adele's at AW 90 is 517. Yuyu is also cheaper. She loses in HP, Defense, Attack during skill (her skill buffs range instead) and doesn't get the Team HP Up AW buff, but is superior for what witches are supposed to do: Be an early magic unit that does good damage and slows enemies. She gets press for Wall of Magic because her attack is superior to platinum witches while being cheaper and having the Range Up skill necessary to catch that one wolf that tends to get away from Adele/Despara. Being Gold rarity also means she's easier to min-cost than the plat Adele or Black Despara, further cementing her cost advantage (AW gives Cost -1)

kayfabe

09-28-2016, 01:45 PM

lolix

09-28-2016, 02:57 PM

well , u dont need a pack of witches to be fair. I got 2 and run just 1 at any given time , exccept for sepcific maps and those are cloris and yuyu/belinda on old account. Never used a silver witch...even for WoM

IvanLedah21

09-28-2016, 03:14 PM

Nah, see, I'd argue that Range Up witches don't deal very good damage which is why the class as a whole struggles to stay relevant beyond the highly contrived scenario that is Wall of Magic. That map is the only time you see a bunch of wolves and red goblins and think to yourself "Man, what I need here is some witches!" and is therefore not representative of what witches are actually good at. Adele and Despara may be more expensive but when fully SU'd they deal nearly twice the damage without taking up a ton of slots like a pack of lesser witches would.

Admittedly, outside of War of Magic I don't use Yuyu that much but that is simply because I have AW Despara and Adele. The former is just beyond comparing to the other witches and the latter has Team HP Up buff so there generally isn't room for Yuyu (rarely would you need a 3rd witch). However, even if you do have those 2, if UP Cost is a factor and you need early magic damage, Yuyu's hard to beat.

And "a pack of lesser witches" is literally never used anywhere other than War of Magic if you don't have Yuyu/Despara (Adele is too costly and doesn't have the 1 sec initial timer that Despara has to make up for it).

Also, the class is still quite relevant, I use them in several daily maps (Adele/Despara combo is used in both Golden Armor G and Spirit Rescue G; the former is especially useful to have lower cost magic damage with all those armored units right from the start) and some event maps they're helpful. Witches are used for early magic damage and their slow, that's their niche, and it's admittedly not super commonly needed but it's not particularly rare either.

kayfabe

09-28-2016, 04:06 PM

Right, but note how we're in agreement on which two witches are relevant here. People rarely use a pack of witches, because that's expensive and takes an impractical number of slots relative to the damage output you end up with. Adele & Despara, however, can briefly approximate the damage output of two Range Up witches from a single slot with proper skill timing. That's way more in line with how actual deployment patterns typically turn out.

ZeroZet

09-28-2016, 08:10 PM

I have both Adele and Yuyu awakened. Still place Yuyu instead of Adele most of time. Low cost more speed more sustained damage FTW! And utility of hitting thing out of reach when needed is really handy.

kayfabe

09-28-2016, 09:05 PM

So, continue having fun doing less damage, I guess?

Tenhou

09-28-2016, 11:59 PM

Honestly, a lot of the time your witch does not need to be good, just mincosted. There's a good reason i still use Nenya on DMM sometimes even though i have Belinda and Cloris at max CC and 12 cost.

ZeroZet

09-29-2016, 01:48 AM

So, continue having fun doing less damage, I guess?Thing is, I do more damage with Yuyu. AFK farm and all :p

IvanLedah21

09-29-2016, 07:00 AM

ZeroZet has a point. For Adele to pass Yuyu in damage, she needs to have skill active. Yuyu has higher attack outside skill AND slight Attack Speed advantage, along with lower cost and ability to increase range if needed. Generally you're not using Witches (besides Despara) for burst damage, you're using them for early magic damage + Slow effect. For that purpose, Yuyu is simply better. Also, Adele, being a platinum unit, does not have instant skill available. Her skill has 12.5 sec initial, 25 sec re-use at max skill level, with 45 second duration. This means for 45 seconds, assuming you actually HAVE her out for a full minute AND have her skill maxed, she will have more damage output than Yuyu. Without skill her damage advantage decreases due to longer skill initial and shorter duration, and that's still utilizing multiple assumptions that do not apply to some players.

I utilize Adele simply due to the ALL HP UP buff, if UP early on is tighter, she's getting swapped for Yuyu, hands-down. Minimum of 2 less cost, and she's more likely to be CR'd due to being gold instead of platinum, and outside of skill she has more bang for the buck.

kayfabe

09-29-2016, 10:24 AM

buttlover

09-29-2016, 10:59 AM

I'll say "range increase" does play a big factor in many maps but then I'll bring Belinda > Yuyu on those maps.
Yuyu's increase range just isn't significant enough to justify the slot.
And if its super duper fast witch deployment, its almost always silver witches that cover it.

Add the 7% increase dmg which brings her to 570 which puts her only below despara, and the "most useful" witch imho.
And if you have despara, you will definitely bring belinda along for that 7% to all witches buff.
But the most important of all, HAVE YOU SEEN HER AFF ART + SAW ANIMATION? Its freaking 2 witches in one, top value pick.

Screw the other witches, belinda is all i need.

IvanLedah21

09-29-2016, 12:31 PM

I legit can't remember ever needing a min-cost witch outside of Wall of Magic, so color me skeptical. You also don't actually need a full minute to make up the damage gap because her attack lead is huge under skill and her deficit without it is bullshit small--in the 12 to 25 seconds Yuyu is trying to run up the score against an unskilled Adele you're talking about around 400-800+ extra damage total and then Adele shifts into gear and starts beating out Yuyu by more than 400 damage per shot. You guys are conflating zero variance with having higher overall damage when the reality is Adele's skill duration is long enough that she spends more time with her skill up than down on many, many maps. Yuyu's only real advantage over Adele is time-on-target due to her skill and low UP cost. If she's not going to be hitting things Adele can't reach at all then it's almost comically unrealistic to expect her to deal more damage. That's why I keep saying her advantages are significant in Wall of Magic and virtually nowhere else.

OK, I worded it poorly. Yes Adele will catch up long before her 45 seconds run out. The "Yuyu does more damage" is applicable ONLY IF you are semi-afk or otherwise not using Adele's skill. Range Up is undoubtedly MUCH more situational than Attack Up, nobody will debate that. Of course, the only reasons to even USE Yuyu over Adele are Cost and Range Up, and IF YOU AREN'T using skills, then damage. ZeroZet said he's afk'ing maps, therefore Yuyu outdamages Adele due to no skills involved. If you're paying attention and you want damage, Adele's obviously the superior choice unless Range Up is needed. I think we're agreeing here, and just hitting different points. OK?

lolix

09-29-2016, 02:57 PM

meh , to be fair , i kinda agree with tenhou and slighty with ivan here , since i tend to use witches more for their utility rather then damage.

Witches are good as long as are cheap so u can deploy them fast on the map to slow stuff down. If i wanted damagem , id simply use solano for a fast deploy unit or a mage. In those regards i tend to value range up a bit more then damage up , even tho i agree that its a bit more situational in general...except on witches , on which i think its better for the simple fact that they can fulfill their purpose at bigger range. Also , since the enemies will be slowed in a much larger range then usual , your witch will do more damage (since she has a higher attack interval) , while letting your other ranged dps output more damage by keeping the target perma slowed for a larger distance

In the end it depends on each person , but as i said , I personaly like range up on witches

kayfabe

09-29-2016, 04:17 PM

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I think we're agreeing here, and just hitting different points.

Pretty much.

Witches are good as long as are cheap so u can deploy them fast on the map to slow stuff down. If i wanted damagem , id simply use solano for a fast deploy unit or a mage. In those regards i tend to value range up a bit more then damage up , even tho i agree that its a bit more situational in general...except on witches , on which i think its better for the simple fact that they can fulfill their purpose at bigger range. Also , since the enemies will be slowed in a much larger range then usual , your witch will do more damage (since she has a higher attack interval) , while letting your other ranged dps output more damage by keeping the target perma slowed for a larger distance

See, the thing here is that I tend to see the "Why even care about witch damage?" attitude people take as kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy. People discount the impact of Increase Attack IV and so they don't invest and continue to be underwhelmed. The Solanos of the world have their niche but they're still a much slower boss killer than an Adele or Despara. AOE has its place but sometimes you just want to kill a big nasty ASAP and relieve some tank pressure.

IvanLedah21

09-30-2016, 06:43 AM

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See, the thing here is that I tend to see the "Why even care about witch damage?" attitude people take as kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy. People discount the impact of Increase Attack IV and so they don't invest and continue to be underwhelmed. The Solanos of the world have their niche but they're still a much slower boss killer than an Adele or Despara. AOE has its place but sometimes you just want to kill a big nasty ASAP and relieve some tank pressure.

Well, for those heavy hitters, I'll have me some more Adele and Despara any day XD
This brings up the point of Yuyu being a "classic witch" with Range Up, low cost and higher attack speed than other witches to prevent early enemies from escaping, while Despara and Adele give up a bit of that utility for the ability to kill heavier units (Yuyu will likely be swapped out for someone else by the time the hard hitters show up, Adele and Despara you can leave in and when those bad boys pop in you pop Increase Attack and watch them slowly melt in agony XD)

Summary:
Early deploy to stop early escapees: Yuyu
Lasting magic damage while keeping the slow effect: Adele/Despara

Ramazan

10-03-2016, 08:12 AM

Like you guys foresee belindas revival... :)

IvanLedah21

10-03-2016, 09:41 AM

1) I'm happy to have ANY revival
2) Belinda is one of the few threesome scenes, so that's a plus for me, personally lol.