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View Full Version : Proposal: Elite Guard Events - SEG Spawners call thread



ChibiKika
08-14-2015, 12:49 AM
In my flu-torn feverish daze, this wacky idea came to my head, so if you have major issues with it...well...I'll go off in the corner and cry myself to a mad rage before torching something (once again, just saying, I'm not really an arsonist)

SEG = Super Elite Guard = Mega Boss = in the case of this current event, Dark Airu

As most of you know, the second half of this event had a long stream of F2P-unfriendly features, but the three I would like to focus on in this thread are:


SEG kills only go to the finder and finisher, and nobody in-between (and a DMM version player has stated that this is an abnormality in the Nutaku version alone, the DMM version didn't have this bug)
An Event-Limited SR card required 300 (now 150) SEG kills to obtain (and man do I wanna f*** the pirate-edition Lala...well, sorta)
It is at times, noticeably difficult for people capable of taking down a SEG to find one and noticeably common for SEGs to show up for players that aren't, almost gives the impression that higher EP actually reduces your chances of finding a SEG. (If you find them often and can take them down easy, feel free to ignore ALL of this)


(This part is incorrect now, disregard it if you prefer)

Here's a little math to anyone looking to obtain Kanae (the Event Limited SEG Kill SR):

SEG kills needed to obtain Kanae: 300
Event 2nd half duration: 8 days or 192 hours
Minimum SEG kill rate needed to obtain Kanae before the event ends:

300/8=37.5 SEG Kills per day

-or-


300/192=1.5625 SEG Kills per hour (provided you know how to stay awake for 192 hours straight)


According to Nutaku's provided timer, it is roughly 6 hours before the end of Day #3, or if you'd prefer, somewhere in the middle of the 66th hour. This means to be staying on quota to get Kanae, hourly rate demands you have ~103 SEG kills within the hour of this post or daily rate says that in 6.5 hours you should have at least ~112 SEG kills.

Staring at the leaderboards right now, I can count with my left hand the number of people in the game who are in this quota range and frankly, that's concerning. (I'm not in the quota range, but kylkaeri is coming close to being lucky #4) I've tried random approaches from the start of the event but so far it's been the practice of burning alot of pudding and getting alot of Tomoko, and having that Tomoko latch onto my thighs while I try to find the Airu who is nowhere in sight for hours on end.

(There's also the issue of getting my kills stolen but if/when Nutaku fixes the SEG kills bug, I'll be able to live with it)


I digress, here's the idea:

I came across the idea of this when one of Hiiro's SEGs popped up and I accidentally pulled a KS on Mystica, to which I apologized as Mystica was on my friend list and offered to back off. Afterwards I figured that to avoid confusion (and wasted pudding from supporters that wouldn't get any credit), I could consider reserving a SEG I found and to share the benefit with someone else without having competitors fight over the kill, I'd weaken it myself (because I have the resources to do so) and offer it exclusively to the player I wanted. That way, I'd get SEG cred, that player would get SEG cred, no one burned extra focus prepping for a kill strike to be denied at the last moment, everyone aware that the SEG even existed wins and anyone who doesn't is none the knowing loser.

So I took up this system and tried it out with Mystica a few times, all of the outcomes positive (to Mystica at least, I had the occasional minor grievance of burning up to 5 puddings for a single SEG but my base SED's low, not much I can do about that). Unfortunately, I'm still of a high EP rank and maybe because of that or just terribly bad luck (or Nutaku has me on a microscope for my spending habits and figured they'd just screw with me for money), I still have hours involving back-to-back Tomoko. So ultimately, to get enough SEG kills to reach the Kanae quota, I need to find people who can spawn SEGs more often that I do and are willing to share them with me in such a way that doesn't open the boss to risk of Kill-Stealing (while the Kill-cred bug is active).

Now, the proposal:

Until the kill-cred bug gets fixed (and even after it's fixed, with minor changes to the system), we could consider setting up a system for heavy hitters looking to get all the SEG rewards to set up part-time contracts with lesser players who have observed a tremendously high SEG spawn frequency and want to get kill credit but don't have the power to do so.

It would simply go that the hitter/spawner with matching active times would friend each other, at least for the duration of the event and while they're both on, if the spawner stumbles across a SEG, he/she would offer it exclusively to the hitter to avoid bloodbath and KS. If neither of the two have the resources to kill the SEG, they could also consider including a 3rd Samaritan player to only weaken it (and I realize that a supporter-only role will prove an incredibly painful and thankless job but you may find someone up for it, who knows...hell, I'd be willing to do it once I get my own quota finished).

So that's more or less my idea...or if you feel like being a jerk to me, my last-resort proposal to finding more Dark Airu spawns to take out in light of the fact that at this rate I will not make the Kanae quota, take it as you will.

Questions, comments, concerns, thoughts for the future, you know what to do.

Back to raging at the Tomoko stuck to my ankles.

lolix
08-14-2015, 10:39 AM
the ideea is interesting , but hardly viable considering how late we are in the second part. Most players have given up on that at this moment. ALso it's quite hard to implement , considering the spawners have to be at least on equal footing with you in terms of SED , simply because what u're asking is for a 2 man kill as to not get anyone else angry , yes ? I mean , you could do it with a low sed player for example , but you would have to spend incredible amount of puddings for that to actually work , since it's hard to get players to waste puddings for others , with no reward involved. I say , continue doing what you want to do with Mystica...or maybe get another 2-3 whales and do that. Seems the best option for high seed players.

ChibiKika
08-14-2015, 11:28 AM
Lateness, yes.

Spawners on equal footing, yes if the contract is looking for a mutual takedown. The bigger idea was that the high-SED player looking for more SEG kills (yes, I'm still gonna call them kills because despite the theme of this game, it's the model that I reference...and "kills" is so much faster to type than "eliminations" or "seductions") would be willing to supply the damage end of it...at least to some extent.

My part-time private SEG forwarding to Mystica works in the sense that I have the buying power for a boatload of pudding on demand so from the finder's side, I don't mind weakening Airu before sending her off for the finish and from the finisher side, I state in advance that I can supply most, if not all, of the damage regardless of level (but to a reasonable extent, I'm not gonna take on a lvl 30-50 that hasn't been weakened by an Energy Drink).

The idea was for high SED players who are desperate to find dedicated low SED spawners, with the idea that one of them supplies the damage, maybe find someone (like I said, thankless job so finding a person willing to do it may be hard) to help with that inhibition bit without making the finish. In advance though, someone is going to have to state the degree of damage/sed they are willing and able to do in the relationship.

The idea of having a thread for it was in alternative to said high SED players having to gamble and take their chances with random players who may or may not help out with the elite guard spawns.


Now here is something new. After a light chat with Hiiro and looking over the response Nutaku had for my support ticket, a few things have happened:


The SEG Kills "bug" is now considered deliberate: Finders and Finishers ONLY are meant to get kill credit, no one else. I guess they came to the conclusion for now that players getting individual support rewards for helping out with SEGs was credit enough and not official reward-worthy.
As of late (but possibly for this event alone) due to the voicing of the upset player community, obtaining Kanae now requires 150 SEG kills instead of the original 300. The quota stated above is now incorrect and should be calculated at half the value shown (unless you plan on getting those 200 & 300 rewards after Kanae, in which I'm just gonna say that you're crazier than I am). And there is now a fairly high number of players that fall within the new Kanae quota.

lolix
08-14-2015, 11:33 AM
Lateness, yes.

Spawners on equal footing, yes if the contract is looking for a mutual takedown. The bigger idea was that the high-SED player looking for more SEG kills (yes, I'm still gonna call them kills because despite the theme of this game, it's the model that I reference...and "kills" is so much faster to type than "eliminations" or "seductions") would be willing to supply the damage end of it...at least to some extent.

My part-time private SEG forwarding to Mystica works in the sense that I have the buying power for a boatload of pudding on demand so from the finder's side, I don't mind weakening Airu before sending her off for the finish and from the finisher side, I state in advance that I can supply most, if not all, of the damage regardless of level (but to a reasonable extent, I'm not gonna take on a lvl 30-50 that hasn't been weakened by an Energy Drink).

The idea was for high SED players who are desperate to find dedicated low SED spawners, with the idea that one of them supplies the damage, maybe find someone (like I said, thankless job so finding a person willing to do it may be hard) to help with that inhibition bit without making the finish. In advance though, someone is going to have to state the degree of damage/sed they are willing and able to do in the relationship.

The idea of having a thread for it was in alternative to said high SED players having to gamble and take their chances with random players who may or may not help out with the elite guard spawns.


Now here is something new. After a light chat with Hiiro and looking over the response Nutaku had for my support ticket, a few things have happened:


The SEG Kills "bug" is now considered deliberate: Finders and Finishers ONLY are meant to get kill credit, no one else. I guess they came to the conclusion for now that players getting individual support rewards for helping out with SEGs was credit enough and not official reward-worthy.
As of late (but possibly for this event alone) due to the voicing of the upset player community, obtaining Kanae now requires 150 SEG kills instead of the original 300. The quota stated above is now incorrect and should be calculated at half the value shown (unless you plan on getting those 200 & 300 rewards after Kanae, in which I'm just gonna say that you're crazier than I am). And there is now a fairly high number of players that fall within the new Kanae quota.


wait. After i read your response in the event thread , i'm a bit confused. So ...is the support issue fixed or not after all ? Do all participants get ep and kill creddit after all , or it's still only the spawner and the killer ?

ChibiKika
08-14-2015, 11:45 AM
wait. After i read your response in the event thread , i'm a bit confused. So ...is the support issue fixed or not after all ? Do all participants get ep and kill creddit after all , or it's still only the spawner and the killer ?

Ah...yes, it's a bit confusing, I'll explain.

The "support issue" they stated they fixed was a bug where people who participated in taking down a SEG would get absolutely no EP from it if they were neither the spawner nor killer (maybe just not the killer, I remember it happening to me once). When that was fixed, players who have participated in SEG "battles" so far would be getting an increase in their EP reflecting that bug being fixed.

The "support issue" that you're talking about which you want fixed is a note that only the spawner and killer get credit towards the SEG Elimination Count rewards in the event. I had some ingame tease chatting with Hiiro and apparently according to a Nutaku FB message he (she? I can't tell genders) got, this is intentional, so supporting without making the finisher still won't and until changed in response to a continued outrage of the community, will not count towards Super Eliminations for this event or the ones down the road.

It sucks, but I guess that's their angle on it.

lolix
08-14-2015, 11:54 AM
and here i was getting all excited. That changes nothing for free players then...unless they have a whale backing them out. either 150 , or 300 kills is impossible when htme max seed i can get with a normal slayer card is 350k SED. At least in the first part of the even , akie helped quite a bit , but now ? oh well... Still this are good news. At least they did something to fix some of the issues they had in this event , and that's good. Better then nothing at least...

Danex
08-14-2015, 12:20 PM
Well, I still have a long way before being a heavy hitter, but I got some SEG spawnings from time to time, and I would gladly share them if it helps anyone.
Of course, your idea will need a really good coordination between players to work. But it should give results.

This idea is interesting, could be like a more specific counter-measure for high HP guards. Just like the group raids, but more focused.
Oh, and Chibikika, I've read your post yesterday regarding your timezone and the current strike force availability. Sorry to not being able to answer sooner. I'll get into it now.

I just can't understand Nutaku. I can't believe that they're doing this "nope, this mess was intended" shit for the second time.

YoshiEnVerde
08-14-2015, 12:23 PM
Lolix, this actually has a lot of merit.
If you pair somebody with a low SED, and a heavy hitter (Preferently somebody with SED above 2mil), you can do the following:

Low SED guy burns elixirs getting D.Airus of Lvl10 or below. Then they use a sex pot to halve them if the HP is above of the SED of their benefactor. Finally they share the guard only with the benefactor.

This way, they both get one kill count.

Also, if the benefactor gets an Aiur, they can soften her down to the low-SED player's range.

This way, they could both reach the 150 count quite fast.
If you can get a couple, or two, of pudding burners in the benefactor side, you could actually get the 150 counts in two or three days

lolix
08-14-2015, 12:42 PM
well i was answering to him when i thought we still needed 300 kills for the super-rare. That would have required 60-70 or so per day , assuming most low seeds have none or very few kills. To get that many per day , was quite hard and time consumming and quite money consuming. Now it's more doable i guess. Less so for pudding whales , but that depends on how much time low seeds are willing to spend searching specifically for SEGs

Tenhou
08-14-2015, 12:57 PM
Also, if the benefactor gets an Aiur

For Aiur! En taro Adun!

lolix
08-14-2015, 01:01 PM
For Aiur! En taro Adun!

My wife for hire!

Unregistered
08-14-2015, 02:58 PM
This bosses are suposed to be so hard then players need to work together to kill them. It make no sence that only summoner and the player who get last hit get a kill count because it almost alwasy will be the whale that get the kill count. Whale will normaly get last hit and most dammage so free players will have 0% bonus EP.
Free players will be best of by killing normal bosses and just ignore lightning bosses imo.

Kotono
08-14-2015, 03:00 PM
This bosses are suposed to be so hard then players need to work together to kill them. It make no sence that only summoner and the player who get last hit get a kill count because it almost alwasy will be the whale that get the kill count. Whale will normaly get last hit and most dammage so free players will have 0% bonus EP.
Free players will be best of by killing normal bosses and just ignore lightning bosses imo.

Free or not isn't the issue here. I'm by no means a free player, and I'm still fucked over in this event. I refuse to spend hundreds just to get this event's reward. I've already spent more than I should have.

I've spent 20$ on this event alone. Any other game I've ever played, that would be more than enough to ensure you get all event rewards that were not gacha only. And yet, I'm still so very far from the kill counts required. Because I hit them with wet noodles after my slayers cards were taken away early.

It's TOO EARLY for these huge ass bosses when we are required to spawn or get the killing blow for credit. I have 11 thus far, and I'm active as long as I'm not sleeping.

Haters
08-14-2015, 07:01 PM
I came across the idea of this when one of Hiiro's SEGs popped up and I accidentally pulled a KS on Mystica, to which I apologized as Mystica was on my friend list and offered to back off..
I just did the same thing to him 10 mins ago, I didn't do it on purpose because the SEG was over 1m5, and I did a weak atk with 400k and stole his kill. My apologize to Narisa :(

Unregistered
08-14-2015, 11:23 PM
Lolix, this actually has a lot of merit.
If you pair somebody with a low SED, and a heavy hitter (Preferently somebody with SED above 2mil), you can do the following:

Low SED guy burns elixirs getting D.Airus of Lvl10 or below. Then they use a sex pot to halve them if the HP is above of the SED of their benefactor. Finally they share the guard only with the benefactor.

This way, they both get one kill count.

Also, if the benefactor gets an Aiur, they can soften her down to the low-SED player's range.

This way, they could both reach the 150 count quite fast.
If you can get a couple, or two, of pudding burners in the benefactor side, you could actually get the 150 counts in two or three days

1) The heavy hitter must be a p2w player who spends loads of money - Only around 10 on our server those.
2) You need atleast 4-5 mill pero for elxils - how many free players got that atm ?

Free players dont really have a chance doint this event.

P2W should spend 200$ to get all slayer girls and 300$ on puddings. If they got load of friends or alt to send them lightning bosses they will get the 150 kills fast.

chillinfar
08-14-2015, 11:46 PM
I saw ppl with 1.5M Pero before perocolo.

ChibiKika
08-15-2015, 12:28 AM
1) The heavy hitter must be a p2w player who spends loads of money - Only around 10 on our server those.
2) You need atleast 4-5 mill pero for elxils - how many free players got that atm ?

Free players dont really have a chance doint this event.

P2W should spend 200$ to get all slayer girls and 300$ on puddings. If they got load of friends or alt to send them lightning bosses they will get the 150 kills fast.

"loads of money" is kinda inspecific, but admittedly you won't find many players willing to buy "OVER 9000!!!!! *crushes scouter*" puddings but if you can latch a contract with just one decent to moderate spender (and I don't mean a measly $20, no offense Kotono), your credit into the event works incredibly well. It may not be 150 Limited SR worthy, but it'll get you fairly far...so I would like to believe at least. Take Hiiro for instance. Hiiro, I'd wager, has somewhere around 1m event SED but over 100 SEG Elimination cred and the note is that most, if not all, of them came from him (her?) being the spawner and redirecting it out to a heavy hitter (or several, depending on circumstance) in such a way that it was guaranteed to be taken out.

4-5m pero for elixir, while on paper sounds necessary, really isn't. You could just use 1 focus to make a weak attack on a boss and throw it at all your punch buddies, use the residual participation prize income from that to buy elixirs as you go, and nix regular bosses when you burn through the focus too fast. The ultimate punchline to it is that you never attack anything more than once, but at the same time you may not be able to support others as a devoted spawner.

You don't need $200 to get all the slayer girls (or wait, are you also counting card reveals into that? I don't really count them because I usually have surplus before the event to begin with). At worst case scenario, $150 but unless you have rotten luck or PPS devs are trolling you (which incidentally may happen more often than we expect), I'd say $45 if you're fairly lucky, $90 if you're not. This is based on the estimate that there are ~20 SR girls stored in the event box, it takes on average 3 event gacha tickets to get an SR (using Reveals), N and R slayers are usually grabbed as an "on-the-way" kinda thing, so you'd need at most 60 tickets, 20-25 Reveals (I'd suggest you gather the reveals before the event itself), and you should be set.

And $300 for pudding...would fall into the "MONSTER TRUCK RALLY!!! *moshing*" degree. Non-aggressive players need only spend $100 (literally $105...or something like $110.25 if you use paypal cuz of that retarded 5% slap-on) to buy about 150 puddings to use in emergencies should they get called to takedown duty without being physically ready to perform.

Point is, yes you need to find a P2W player just because you're a F2P player doesn't mean you can't mooch off the P2W guy and based on how much help you can bring him, he'll be just as happy as you are at getting your goodies.

Kotono
08-15-2015, 12:36 AM
I'm not saying my $20 should have given me all the gacha girls. In fact, I'd expect to spend hundreds for all of them.
My irritation is the fact that my "measly" 20$ isn't enough to get me the EVENT card. Actually, that money went to waste already because the changed the slayers. Instead, I'm forced to spend hundreds if I want a chance at it. I've NEVER played a game besides this one that forced me to do that for the event card. Every other time, the event card is obtainable by spending little to nothing. Rather, more of a "thanks for continuing to play" kind of thing. While all the spenders are trying for leader boards and going for the limited cards from being such and such rank or the limited gacha rewards. That kind of thing I don't have an issue with, because I don't care to be on top when it costs hundreds to be there.

It's just, the way this type of event works is incredibly greedy. If you want to attack more than 1 time every 30 minutes, you spend 70 cents per additional attack. It's just.. no.
If I want to take down these bosses and get kill credit, then with my sub-700k event SED, I'd have to spend 14 puddings for every 10 mil HP I have to burn through. 14 x .7 = $9.8 to kill a single boss. WTF?

It's too early for bosses this strong for the majority of us.

ChibiKika
08-15-2015, 12:56 AM
It's too early for bosses this strong for the majority of us.

That, I agree with. Sometimes feels the devs are basing the progression/growth of this game on the players who are obsessively strong, like way stronger than the majority of the community and when events come out that assume the entire player base has matching abilities to those select few, stuff like this can happen.

Well, in respects to our positions as customers, we more or less have 3 choices:

1. Bitch and moan (if unsuccessful, increase your volume and repeat as needed)
2. Adapt
3. Leave

And harsh as that may sound, it more or less is all it comes down to in the end, no matter how much professionalism and incentive is plugged into the mix.

lolix
08-15-2015, 07:41 AM
"loads of money" is kinda inspecific, but admittedly you won't find many players willing to buy "OVER 9000!!!!! *crushes scouter*" puddings but if you can latch a contract with just one decent to moderate spender (and I don't mean a measly $20, no offense Kotono), your credit into the event works incredibly well. It may not be 150 Limited SR worthy, but it'll get you fairly far...so I would like to believe at least. Take Hiiro for instance. Hiiro, I'd wager, has somewhere around 1m event SED but over 100 SEG Elimination cred and the note is that most, if not all, of them came from him (her?) being the spawner and redirecting it out to a heavy hitter (or several, depending on circumstance) in such a way that it was guaranteed to be taken out.

4-5m pero for elixir, while on paper sounds necessary, really isn't. You could just use 1 focus to make a weak attack on a boss and throw it at all your punch buddies, use the residual participation prize income from that to buy elixirs as you go, and nix regular bosses when you burn through the focus too fast. The ultimate punchline to it is that you never attack anything more than once, but at the same time you may not be able to support others as a devoted spawner.

You don't need $200 to get all the slayer girls (or wait, are you also counting card reveals into that? I don't really count them because I usually have surplus before the event to begin with). At worst case scenario, $150 but unless you have rotten luck or PPS devs are trolling you (which incidentally may happen more often than we expect), I'd say $45 if you're fairly lucky, $90 if you're not. This is based on the estimate that there are ~20 SR girls stored in the event box, it takes on average 3 event gacha tickets to get an SR (using Reveals), N and R slayers are usually grabbed as an "on-the-way" kinda thing, so you'd need at most 60 tickets, 20-25 Reveals (I'd suggest you gather the reveals before the event itself), and you should be set.

And $300 for pudding...would fall into the "MONSTER TRUCK RALLY!!! *moshing*" degree. Non-aggressive players need only spend $100 (literally $105...or something like $110.25 if you use paypal cuz of that retarded 5% slap-on) to buy about 150 puddings to use in emergencies should they get called to takedown duty without being physically ready to perform.

Point is, yes you need to find a P2W player just because you're a F2P player doesn't mean you can't mooch off the P2W guy and based on how much help you can bring him, he'll be just as happy as you are at getting your goodies.

Actually , if u do some calculations , 5 milion pero isn't that far fetched. Think a bit : to reach the quota u want , u at least 30-40 SEGs per day , yes ? For a free player to spawn that many , they would have to keep ignoring normal bosses and use elixirs to get rid of them , till they spawn a Dark airu. That has 2 effects : 1 very little EP for them even with the SEGs since they will have done only 1 weak attack , and no normal boses because they wanted to spawn SEGS. That is generally okay with sumeone in top 500 , because he is very likely to still get the SR card from normal EP rank rewards. And second effect would be high amounts of pero used for elixirs. Think : 1 elixir is 5k , yes ? Considering from my experience , Dark airus apear once in 8-10 normal bosses , that would mean at least 40-50k pero used for 1 boss. Considering u need at least 30-40 a day , that means easily 1.2-2kk pero per day. To that u add another 150-200k for elixirs to cut the boss's life in half , and u can easily reach 1.5kk pero used per day , which is quite high.....and that still depends on how lucky u are with SEG spawns. If u are unluky , that can easily double.

Unregistered
08-15-2015, 10:46 AM
Lolix, this actually has a lot of merit.
If you pair somebody with a low SED, and a heavy hitter (Preferently somebody with SED above 2mil), you can do the following:

Low SED guy burns elixirs getting D.Airus of Lvl10 or below. Then they use a sex pot to halve them if the HP is above of the SED of their benefactor. Finally they share the guard only with the benefactor.

This way, they both get one kill count.

Also, if the benefactor gets an Aiur, they can soften her down to the low-SED player's range.

This way, they could both reach the 150 count quite fast.
If you can get a couple, or two, of pudding burners in the benefactor side, you could actually get the 150 counts in two or three days


75% of all bosses are non-lighning bosses so they have to be send away
All lightning bosses should be reduced with potions

So the week player just need to (450 + 150) * 5000 = 3 Mill pero to get the SR-girl - I dont think many free players have that kind of pero..