View Full Version : The player's opinion on editing content
Kotono
09-19-2015, 02:01 PM
Most of us don't like what is happening in these games. However, at first it wasn't so bad. I can deal with loli's getting boobjobs, and to some extent, characters being removed or replaced. But when censorship is starting to show an incredibly obvious downgrade in quality of the art we DO get, why would this be allowed? How can we have faith in future games when the art quality keeps getting worse?
Some examples: http://imgur.com/a/A8GeM
Please vote in this poll and/or post any thoughts about what this means to you!
um 99% of the players don't even know how the original jap cards look, u might need some examples :confused:
boobjobs - lol
characters being removed or replaced - well they did say they might add lolis without @%&(%&/ art, never said when tho, dunno about other cards
censorship - to be honest I prefer it that way..
Kotono
09-19-2015, 02:52 PM
That ones that don't know of the changes are better off not seeing the originals in some cases.
Danex
09-19-2015, 11:10 PM
I don't have any problems with loli boobjobs, it isn't something THAT serious, but if the artwork's quality gets affected, then that is a problem. As someone wrote time ago (can't exactly remember where), big-breasted lolis could actually be a new sub-genre of lolicon itself.
Anyone who watched hentai/asian porn before already knows how it works when it comes to censorship, so it shouldn't be anything new, but I do think that Nutaku's games are supposed to be western-oriented products, so they shouldn't apply censorship measures made for japanese laws, specially if they end up affecting the artwork itself.
The loli stuff is a more complex subject, since it works in the opposite direction: loli-related artwork which is totally ok in Japan, can lead Nutaku to serious problems with western laws. Honestly I think they're playing with fire when allowing characters which breaks their own safety rules.
The fact that there are loli characters being featured doesn't take away the risk they represent for Nutaku, so they're basically trying their luck when doing that.
I don't know about the rest, but I personally would not like to go to Nutaku's website one day, and find it taken down for legal issues and/or losing support from western banks. With that in mind, I wouldn't mind to deal with some modifications/censorship as long as it doesn't affect the artwork's quality itself.
IMO, Nutaku should play it safe, but without screwing with the quality.
Skulkraken
09-20-2015, 04:42 AM
I agree that it's a good idea for Nutaku to play it safe. Hellfire Girls and the Luv games are probably safer for Nutaku than the other titles it has because of it being based on live-action porn rather than animated porn.
There is one other taboo that Nutaku has to play it safe with, and that's rape. It hasn't been that long ago that lobbyists and politicians were getting angry over RapeLay, and we're in the middle of an election on top of that. The goofy storyline rewrites we're seeing show up are going to continue being needed in order to keep Nutaku and its players from potentially getting hauled up before Congress and into the national spotlight.
Anonymous
09-20-2015, 09:21 PM
Nutaku's edits have never been remotely good, and never suited the original artwork, but with Osawari they've reach a whole other level of shit. At this point Nutaku just needs to change payment providers and stop editing at all, as they're ruining characters with their cheap edits (most boobjobs are lazy smudge tools, all the osawari edits are crude resizes, fucking pentagram shopped on a nun, you can barely call them edits since no effort was involved whatsoever).
If they refuse to change payment services (they really should though, fuck probiller it's terrible), then they should at least spend some actual money on their editing. Someone retard with a couple photoshop tools and no sense for art should not be in control of editing for games that basically revolve are the girls and their appearance. If edits were actually proper redrawing, tits suited to the character rather than balloons and faces not being touched at all, I think people would accept the changes more easily.
But seriously just change fucking payment services, like everyone says, go ask Mangagamer for tips.
anon432
09-20-2015, 09:59 PM
Personally I'm not paying even a cent more to nutaku till they revert this shit. I can (barely) agree to enlarged breasts, but why the hell mutilate faces? Why nun outfit was changed? Why pentagram was added to other nun? Why third nun was left as is?
These games are all about collecting cute girls for me. Abominations nutaku made are not cute at all.
Kotono
09-21-2015, 12:16 AM
I'm not completely against editing of material if it means allowing it to be released for us, but there are limits. Some of this has just not been necessary at all, and the ones that may be considered necessary were done terribly. The art is the most important part of these games. Time and money should be properly spent on any edits that are made to make sure they come out good.
I'm adding an imgur dump someone posted on ULMF to the main post, to show some of the changes made in Osawari.
Nia is kinda creepy looking now
I'm not even sure why Olivia was edited at all.
Tenryu's body looks fine (actually kinda hot) but the face and hair just don't agree with each other.
These westernized faces look horrible on original anime bodies.
anon432
09-21-2015, 12:36 AM
Biggest mystery for me is why the hell they added pentagram and censored cleavage cutout of poor Seira. This cannot be explained by laws, payment processor or common sense at all. If anything, drawing pentagrams on nuns is more likely to get them in trouble with religious folks.
Also, removing collar and chain Shizuku is pure bullshit too. There are no laws against BDSM.
How the hell they are going to release Taimanin Asagi Battle Arena then? Every girl there is raped, often in hardcore ways involving BDSM, tentacles, stomach punching and so on. Is it taking so long because they redraw and rewrite every card and scene, lol?
Schverika
09-21-2015, 02:47 AM
Time and money should be properly spent on any edits that are made to make sure they come out good.
I've talked with a Nutaku dev on this. Due to tight deadlines, they had to outsource the edits. They knew they fucked up when the art returned but there was no time to fix anything so they pushed through. They want to fix these mistakes. It'll take a maintenance period to replace art so they want to do it as a batch job, not a string of hot-fixes that frequently interrupts play. They can't stop editing at all, but they'll be more careful now.
anon432
09-21-2015, 03:04 AM
What exactly compelled them to send Seira for editing? She doesn't look like child and there are no laws, regulations or contracts requiring them turn nuns into satanists. "They can't stop editing" is bullshit, half of characters they edited were perfectly fine in original version.
Skulkraken
09-21-2015, 03:55 AM
Who did the art editing, anyway? Was it some random guys Nutaku picked up, or was it a professional studio?
Armeris
09-21-2015, 10:21 AM
I suppose, like most of us, I agree with edit stuff if there is the only way to bring it here, but the problem, like most of us agree, is the quality, some of them are very poor.
I've talked with a Nutaku dev on this. Due to tight deadlines, they had to outsource the edits. They knew they fucked up when the art returned but there was no time to fix anything so they pushed through. They want to fix these mistakes. It'll take a maintenance period to replace art so they want to do it as a batch job, not a string of hot-fixes that frequently interrupts play. They can't stop editing at all, but they'll be more careful now.
I hope this is true, but until we see changes, those are empty words of a company XD.
Aside the quality, sometimes they change stuff with no sense, for example, original Tenryu Mihoshi looks like a loli, right, but Nia? They did not even respect the cat face. Whats wrong with the face of Tsukishiro Karen?
For example with Nomi Honoka and Olivia the result is not bad.
As far as I know they remove certain card on Valkyrie because the H-Scene have tentacles, seems like Galete (from money Gacha) have tentacles. Inconsistent.
About slavery and rape, they're more delicated themes, and with the double moral of most countries can be very problematic.
Skulkraken
09-21-2015, 07:50 PM
Nutaku can throw off the SJWs from noticing the rape scenes to an extent by rewriting them to have girls who aren't human. SJWs are stupid that way. Doing so might screw up the storyline of Taimanin Asagi Battle Arena, but it'll make it possible to get it released with minimal edits artwise.
anon432
09-21-2015, 10:03 PM
There are no real problems with slavery or rape. Its not illegal. JAST and MangaGamer released dozens of completely uncensored rape-centered games during last 5 years, and they had zero issues with it. They are openly selling, both online and at cons, games with such cool titles as "Suck my dick or die", "My sex slave is a classmate" or "Slave Witch April" and still nobody ever complained.
makinaz
09-22-2015, 09:03 AM
I'm a breast man, not very much into lolis, so I'm ok with the edits. I actually prefer most of the edits. Some of the eyes look a little weird but it's no big deal to me.
Danex
09-22-2015, 11:18 AM
I guess it's a good sign that they are acknowledging the situation. Let's hope those fixes are as good as they need to be.
As Armeris said, we'll have to wait until we can actually see what happens.
Anyways, if they're facing problems with deadlines, then I don't understand why they force themselves to release new games before being able to properly handle issues with the games they already had. Of course I don't know about the contractual conditions they agreed with the japanese side of the business (maybe there is the big problem), but I think that at this point, they should already know how much workload their team can handle.
Simply put, with Osawari they're being overwhelmed with the total amount of stuff they have to handle now, thus getting current results.
As I said before, I'm ok with content being edited, if that allows these games to be available here (and avoiding legal issues), but edition requires careful attention.
anon432
09-23-2015, 09:40 PM
Nutaku finally addressed issue officially, https://twitter.com/nutakugames/status/646694481652240384
None of these changes were accidental and they will not be reverted. Turning nuns into satanists is official nutaku policy.
Anonymous
09-23-2015, 10:24 PM
I have to say, I'm fairly pessimistic towards Nutaku's future because of their many failings, but even I didn't expect them to attempt to validate these kinds of edits. Their guy in the Osawari chat and their support team both treated the edits like they were a problem to be resolved, but I guess the official company line is now that they are working as intended.
To say that they notice a significant negative reaction towards the edits, and then go on to say they won't announce anything about them and they're all as they should be is just absurd, and a sign that their already shaky business decisions can only get worse.
I haven't spent very much on Nutaku's games, but every time they say something I regret it even more.
Kotono
09-23-2015, 10:30 PM
Maybe we can consider that they won't openly admit or talk about that kind of situation on their official public channels, due to the potential prying eyes. I don't think they would lie to us like that. At least, I seriously hope not.
Anonymous
09-24-2015, 12:02 AM
They're a business, not a friend.
anon432
09-24-2015, 12:24 AM
One could argue that antagonizing customers doesn't make for good business, but it seems like common trend in gaming industry lately.
Skulkraken
09-24-2015, 03:47 AM
Reading the Twitter replies, it sounds like they tried to negotiate with the payment processors, who responded by digging in their heels on their editing demands. The edits made to the nuns now make more sense. They're literally the same kind of edits that were imposed on game companies during the 8-bit and 16-bit eras. Sucks that there are still people who are stuck in the mud like that.
Antagonizing customers isn't good business, but neither is antagonizing business partners. Nutaku's still got an all-ages site to launch sometime soon, and mainstream customers aren't very likely to put up with not being able to use the payment processors available right now. Money talks, bullshit walks. Unfortunately, the deeper pockets of the anime and manga audience at large mean that they have a much larger voice than we eroge players ever will. :(
Fuew12
09-24-2015, 06:29 AM
after reading reply in Twitter
so Body change because Nutaku go with No-Loli Policy, fine i dont really care but are they really against flat chest ?
change in religious stuff or add some symbol because some religious problem, fine then
but what the F*** with the face change, at first i already notice some eromon kinda have strange face who out of place
well modified body still change in overall arts but not really will noticed different story with face they are supposed to be MOE but now only meh. well some people might be think change in face not really relevant but for me it very important Issue
the change in face i dislike the most
Mamoru
Hyuuga Natsumi
Kotobuki Mamoru
hamatena kinda enter Boundary but still regrettable her face become like that
Unregistered
09-25-2015, 07:13 AM
Does anyone have the link on their interview? Would like to know if there are some things we can point out to them.
It's a nice gesture of Nutaku to localize these games but their recent justifications on the edits show that they have no idea on their product. Personally, I prefer the games unedited with the "all characters are 18 or of legal age"(I have yet to see any character admit they're underage) for those skeptics because I think the more the audience gives leeway to these edits, the more abominable edits Nutaku can get away with.
Zardoz
09-27-2015, 09:00 AM
Yeah, it's getting pretty pathetic. Obviously the face editing is the worst and absolutely appalling at times, but I still don't understand why every woman needs to have double d's. I'm really sick of it.
Worst offenders I've noticed so far are probably Noa, Mamoru, and the event girl Natsumi. Completely ruined.
Tenhou
09-27-2015, 06:45 PM
I really feel they should stop a lot of unnecessary editing. As mentioned above, Noa was just mega ruined. Personally i don't feel Mamoru and Natsumi were that ruined, they still looked good to me. Noa however now looks like a pug (the ugliest dog in existence) rather than a tiger with that mashed in face.
And i do not get their obsession with putting boobs on everything. There's a TON of grown up women with small cup sizes and their boobaholic attitude starts to get really annoying.
No to edits!
Anonymous
09-28-2015, 05:23 AM
https://madokami.com/fepnxk.jpg
It's fucking getting worse
Zardoz
09-28-2015, 03:07 PM
https://madokami.com/fepnxk.jpg
It's fucking getting worse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31g0YE61PLQ
soranokira
09-30-2015, 02:26 AM
Nutaku seems to think making most of the characters get larger breasts seem to sell better.
I think the imbalance makes things worse.
and let's not talk about how horribly the faces were disfigured.
Anonymous
10-01-2015, 08:37 PM
https://madokami.com/vcvv6l.jpg
Can't escape the retardation.
Overload
10-02-2015, 04:07 AM
Jeeez, nutaku rly doesn't care with their changes...
324
Tenhou
10-04-2015, 01:00 PM
Got that card today. It doesn't actually look that bad! ...if you sit far enough away or zoom out enough :P
Unregistered
10-04-2015, 09:43 PM
The urge to jump ship to dmm grows....
Kotono
10-05-2015, 01:48 AM
How are flowers supposed to make Noa appear older, anyway? Doesn't really change anything to me. Except for that it makes her description completely inaccurate.
So it's actualy getting worse lol since on Noa release she still had the tiger. And clearly they dont intend to stop it, reading that retarded reply with "the big eyes makes girl look younger"..
In these conditions i'm surprised the PPS cards we got are still normal, even if some will forever be missing from here.
Overload
10-06-2015, 02:25 PM
Another honourable mention:
336334
I guess nutaku forced her to take drugs to look less young :rolleyes:
Well, I sure regret giving them my €20 after discovering this. Should've done more research, I guess. I hate how that seems to be necessary now. I was really enjoying Osawari so far, too. How naive of me to assume the weird eyes were just a quirk of the art style.
I don't think any of this censorship they've done was legally required. Companies like JAST and MangaGamer sell tons of loli hentai games in the west. The former ships them from a warehouse in San Diego. The law evidently doesn't care. That makes all the breast, eye and head size edits completely unnecessary. Even if you prefer large breasts this should anger you, because A) it's disrespectful to the original art and B) variety is the spice of life (and C) flat is justice). And what's the deal with Kanami (http://puu.sh/kATCi/6d92423c61.jpg) in this context? She has boob power, sure, but her eyes do take up about a third of her face. Is this a sign of things getting better or just a happy oversight?
Slavery and rape might be "sensitive topics" (... maybe, if this is your first hentai game), but they're certainly not illegal to portray in fiction. Both are frequently seen in other games as well as mainstream American-made porn so I cannot imagine there would be a problem with showing them here. This leads me to suspect they were censored for moral reasons, which is incredibly annoying/depressing and doesn't bode well for the future at all.
So, has anyone looked into trying to fix this yet? Is there a reason it'd be impossible to access the temporary folder the game downloads its assets to and replace the modified ones with the originals after the game has finished preloading?
Also, since this is my first post: hello!
laedalqin
10-06-2015, 11:56 PM
Hmm... Well, after seeing the valkyrie event reward edit and the stuff in this thread, I think I am about ready to jump ship from nutaku. Kind of sucks that I probably spent upwards of $800 by now, but I would not regret it. Guess I will just wait and see if they put in a shitty aigis edit before knowing for sure. Ah well, saving money is fine too.
I think I prefer the absence of characters they feel compelled to edit.
Guess if I do leave, I might try to give my account away to someone who plays valkyrie or aigis, since I spent the most on those. Would want to remove my saved card from their shitty payment processor though, which seems to hold onto it forever to give me the much unappreciated convenience of typing the last four digits in with apparently unlimited attempts (would not be surprised if I could just type from 0000 to 9999).
soranokira
10-07-2015, 03:49 AM
Frankly speaking I wouldnt mind playing laedalqin's account just for a little fun with premium units, considering I have close to none of them
http://puu.sh/kBPva/86d4d61880.jpg
Haha, they forgot to edit the face icon on the right and comparing them side by side like this makes the edit look even more derpy. Amazing!
Careful guys, you're gonna offend someone with those big eyes. /s
Unregistered
10-07-2015, 07:05 PM
I think if people complain enough they might change the faces back we could need a ticket to support and let our voices be heard. http://www.nutaku.net/support/game-inquiries/ Support Ticket
Something may be happening. I currently have two copies of the Flora character. They are identical except for their mini-portraits:
http://puu.sh/kJqyu/4fd9829083.jpg http://puu.sh/kJqzO/a581ec0b24.jpg
One of these was caught today, the other about a week ago. I'm not sure which is which. Either they've started changing the portraits to match their edits (boo!), or they're preparing to restore the original faces (yay!).
Unregistered
10-15-2015, 12:10 AM
I'm worried as to how will they handle Taimanin Asagi. In terms of content, it's somewhat tame but not pure vanilla.
ReVerse
10-27-2015, 04:48 AM
403
Major Concerns, this shouldn’t take long,
“Censorship ends in logical completeness when nobody is allowed to read any books except the books that nobody reads.”
~George Bernard Shaw~
Main Problems:
What is Offered is not Promised
Nutaku promises not only titles in High Quality, but Uncensored High Quality Titles. From marketing perspective this is a good strategy to get more customers, if and only if they have never seen the original artwork from Japan. Some images when compared to their counterparts are not only lower in quality, but attempt to make a mockery out of human anatomy with eyes not only decreased in size, but placed closer toward their foreheads or have their entire heads deformed. Yes, we understand these are Anime/Manga-based characters, so they are not meant to be realistic. Unfortunately, decreasing their eye size in attempt to make an originally non-realistic character “different” to possibly avoid unwanted attention from people that will argue and scream words on par with “pedophilia” (while these same people will not take any interest in playing the game) is either lazy or unrealistic, because not only is it impossible to avoid conflict, but there is no benefit to support the complainers that are not willing to pay. The majority of us are all accustomed to anime or JRPGs so we have all seen a Lolita-type before, this is nothing unusual in both genres, and the problem is mitigated in most companies by changing the ages of characters when brought to the USA to a legal age, without distorting their appearance. Hell, even Japan gives their Lolita-type characters legal ages above 18, ever heard of Touhou? Those girls sure as hell don’t look like they are in their 50s, but they are.
Not Effective from a Business Perspective
The players that play this game all share a common interest in either Anime or J-Games. Some may just be here for the pokemon-based concept of catching them all, but once again the majority of us are here for the ladies or rather the original great art designs of Eromon, some more than others. We all have our own preference on females that can reach different extremes from small bust size to large bust size, short height to tall height, and from sexy to cute. Take away that preference and you take away a large population willing to pay for that preference.
Other Minor Problems:
Destroying the original concept
Copyright Infringement or that is what it might be considered if Nutaku did not have a contract with DDM.That is ok though, because the original concept that one of the artists put a lot of effort into creating was only scrapped for a lower quality version that appears to have been poly-morphed in photo shop. This also means they do not have to give any credit to the original artist, because it’s their own work.
An Insult to Females with Small Busts
Completely annihilating a large portion of the female race that is below 5’ foot tall, has a small bust size, or has a cuter more youthful face, not only creates a niche that says it is not “ok
to be those things in a game, but also that it is not ok to be those things in reality. There are woman with all 3 of these features in the real world that are in face older than 18, while others may luck out with 2 out of 3. However, to say that they should not receive any attention or love and need to be censored even when they are above the age of 18 is a cruel fate. Many have received disrespect for looking younger than their actual age and this promotes such disrespect. It is not ok if your real life waifu has any of these 3 features or all 3, but we will approve of your relationship after she gets her skeletal structure replaced, plastic surgery and botox.
NPCs Risk Harm as Well
Hametena, the first NPC to be effected by the catastrophe known as “eye shrinkage” and “breast evolution”. Some symptoms may include morphed and/or clipped low quality clothing and belly enhancement. Hopefully future Eromons do not suffer the same fate.
- - - Updated - - -
Reading the Twitter replies, it sounds like they tried to negotiate with the payment processors, who responded by digging in their heels on their editing demands. The edits made to the nuns now make more sense. They're literally the same kind of edits that were imposed on game companies during the 8-bit and 16-bit eras. Sucks that there are still people who are stuck in the mud like that.
Antagonizing customers isn't good business, but neither is antagonizing business partners. Nutaku's still got an all-ages site to launch sometime soon, and mainstream customers aren't very likely to put up with not being able to use the payment processors available right now. Money talks, bullshit walks. Unfortunately, the deeper pockets of the anime and manga audience at large mean that they have a much larger voice than we eroge players ever will. :(
Funny thing is we are the anime and manga audience as well and many from the both genres would be against the Loli-apocalypse.
- - - Updated - - -
405
If this continues. :D
406
Ariana Grande, Age 22.
- - - Updated - - -
I agree that it's a good idea for Nutaku to play it safe. Hellfire Girls and the Luv games are probably safer for Nutaku than the other titles it has because of it being based on live-action porn rather than animated porn.
There is one other taboo that Nutaku has to play it safe with, and that's rape. It hasn't been that long ago that lobbyists and politicians were getting angry over RapeLay, and we're in the middle of an election on top of that. The goofy storyline rewrites we're seeing show up are going to continue being needed in order to keep Nutaku and its players from potentially getting hauled up before Congress and into the national spotlight.
Oddly enough they are not censoring the "Teen" class in Hellfire Girls or changing it to something else, did they forgot teens are the ages 13 to 17?
- - - Updated - - -
How are flowers supposed to make Noa appear older, anyway? Doesn't really change anything to me. Except for that it makes her description completely inaccurate.
I just noticed, they also removed the stuffed animal on Hametene. Its illegal for older girls to have stuffed animals now.
A Time to Screw
11-08-2016, 01:12 AM
A year later and they are still doing this bullshit.
They'll never fucking change.
Original DMM
essay
12-19-2016, 03:11 PM
Does anyone have the link on their interview? Would like to know if there are some things we can point out to them.
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