Much as I loath to make a thread about only this, but... Awakening opinions?

[MalusCorvus]

So, I've been holding off on Awakening any units for a while, with the result that I have nearly 300 Demon Crystals and a lot of silver units, so material is no option. There are quite a few units I have that I could Awaken if I so pleased, but left to my own devices I'd just Awaken the ones I think are cool, with no regard to usefulness... so, I thought I'd get a second opinion!

First, units I've already Awakened: Katie, Rita, Sybilla, and Liana.

Second, the tally of the units I could awaken now or soon, in order of UP cost: Waltz, Cuterie, Cypria, Kerry, Cloris, Bashira, Vincent, Iris, Saki, Beatrice, Momiji, Garrett, Elva, Zola, Cyrus, Mehlis, and Sasha.

Third, the ones I'd really like to Awaken at some point. I've been angling to Awaken Momiji for some time, because the thought of blocking 3 units at once, with Strength of the Fierce God active (and because of Liana's skill, I suspect I use Momiji more than a lot of others do), is quite entertaining. On the tank front, however, I am tempted to Awaken Garrett, largely because he's the only heavy infantry unit of Gold rank or higher than I have, although from what I can tell Elva and Dark Knights in general serve a similar niche albeit more focused on offensive power, and Elva's a unit I want to be useful. Other than one of those three I don't really have a preference, although I'm oddly inclined to Awaken Vincent (mostly because I was lucky, or unlucky, enough to get a second copy of him), or Mehlis.

Since I generally Awaken units because I think it'd be neat rather than for practical purposes, at least when left to myself, I thought I'd get some advice before I make too egregious an error. ...And yes, I have a feeling someone's going to recommend Awakening Bashira. Consider it noted.

[Jay Rich]

Me personally I have been awakening core units first such as Katie, Iris, Spica and I also have Bernice awakened. So that covers Healer, Duelist, archer and Heavy Armor basically the core of an army.

The rest I am awakening to branch out to other areas and get stronger duelists like My Sybilla I recently Awakened and next will be Saki and Rachel. The things is I plan to Awaken as many units as I can as I play Aigis but I am choosing who I like and will benefit my team to my needs. Other may have ideas on who you should awaken but I am sure that you may have your own style in playing and it does sound like that from the way you use Momiji and Liana.

If I where you I would be thinking what does my core awakened team lack and looks like a good heavy armor, so maybe Garrett would be your next best unit? Not only is a good Heavy Armor needed for some maps and events but being male he can be used for Male only events too.

Do you have Spica? Bashira is indeed a good unit and does pack some good DPS but Spica is also a worthy investment to get and AW and if we get good constant updates may soon leave the trading post as I hear Plat units are usually the ones to get swapped around (if they ever do this).

These are just my thought, best of luck with your awakening!!

[Eab1990]

Definitely Iris. (blah blah Nutaku Liana a shit)

After that, Bashira (she can be useful, dammit), then Cloris or Vincent or maybe Saki.

[buttlover]

So, I've been holding off on Awakening any units for a while, with the result that I have nearly 300 Demon Crystals and a lot of silver units, so material is no option. There are quite a few units I have that I could Awaken if I so pleased, but left to my own devices I'd just Awaken the ones I think are cool, with no regard to usefulness... so, I thought I'd get a second opinion!

First, units I've already Awakened: Katie, Rita, Sybilla, and Liana.

Second, the tally of the units I could awaken now or soon, in order of UP cost: Waltz, Cuterie, Cypria, Kerry, Cloris, Bashira, Vincent, Iris, Saki, Beatrice, Momiji, Garrett, Elva, Zola, Cyrus, Mehlis, and Sasha.

Third, the ones I'd really like to Awaken at some point. I've been angling to Awaken Momiji for some time, because the thought of blocking 3 units at once, with Strength of the Fierce God active (and because of Liana's skill, I suspect I use Momiji more than a lot of others do), is quite entertaining. On the tank front, however, I am tempted to Awaken Garrett, largely because he's the only heavy infantry unit of Gold rank or higher than I have, although from what I can tell Elva and Dark Knights in general serve a similar niche albeit more focused on offensive power, and Elva's a unit I want to be useful. Other than one of those three I don't really have a preference, although I'm oddly inclined to Awaken Vincent (mostly because I was lucky, or unlucky, enough to get a second copy of him), or Mehlis.

Since I generally Awaken units because I think it'd be neat rather than for practical purposes, at least when left to myself, I thought I'd get some advice before I make too egregious an error. ...And yes, I have a feeling someone's going to recommend Awakening Bashira. Consider it noted.

Since you AW-ed 1 physical dps, 1 soldier, 1 duelist and healer, the next should be a witch/mage.
But it is really subjective, for example bashira's AW ability sucks. So she is almost always last to AW unless you have no options for archers.

Easy AW targets should be cuterie (if you need aff items if not ignore) and iris.

I am surprised you have sybilla and liana but not bernice or spica in your list of AW targets.
Spica boosts the dmg of rita+bashira once you AW her.
Bernice is a great cheap HA that can pretty much cover you for 99% of the maps.

I would suggest your priority to be iris -> cuterie (if you need aff) -> belinda (current event) -> spica/sasha/waltz -> saki/vincent (the rest are meh, can do it slowly)
Depending on who you often use in your core team. If you have a good HA, I'll AW her before spica/sasha/waltz

DISCLAIMER: You can choose to AW any girl you like, whether for art or if she is your personal waifu. The advice I offer is purely in terms of overall power. Eg, I would prefer for archers - nanaly > spica > bashira > rita. That is the ranking power/usefulness wise.

[IvanLedah21]

So, I've been holding off on Awakening any units for a while, with the result that I have nearly 300 Demon Crystals and a lot of silver units, so material is no option. There are quite a few units I have that I could Awaken if I so pleased, but left to my own devices I'd just Awaken the ones I think are cool, with no regard to usefulness... so, I thought I'd get a second opinion!

First, units I've already Awakened: Katie, Rita, Sybilla, and Liana.

Second, the tally of the units I could awaken now or soon, in order of UP cost: Waltz, Cuterie, Cypria, Kerry, Cloris, Bashira, Vincent, Iris, Saki, Beatrice, Momiji, Garrett, Elva, Zola, Cyrus, Mehlis, and Sasha.

Third, the ones I'd really like to Awaken at some point. I've been angling to Awaken Momiji for some time, because the thought of blocking 3 units at once, with Strength of the Fierce God active (and because of Liana's skill, I suspect I use Momiji more than a lot of others do), is quite entertaining. On the tank front, however, I am tempted to Awaken Garrett, largely because he's the only heavy infantry unit of Gold rank or higher than I have, although from what I can tell Elva and Dark Knights in general serve a similar niche albeit more focused on offensive power, and Elva's a unit I want to be useful. Other than one of those three I don't really have a preference, although I'm oddly inclined to Awaken Vincent (mostly because I was lucky, or unlucky, enough to get a second copy of him), or Mehlis.

Since I generally Awaken units because I think it'd be neat rather than for practical purposes, at least when left to myself, I thought I'd get some advice before I make too egregious an error. ...And yes, I have a feeling someone's going to recommend Awakening Bashira. Consider it noted.

You don't have Bernice, huh? Garret is meh, IMO so you might want Elva despite the cost since she's superior to your only Gold+ Heavy Garret.

Agreed with Buttlover, WHERE ON THAT LIST IS SPICA???

....

Anyways, my recommended order:
Spica >> Iris > Cuterie (if gifts are your thing, if not, disregard) > Elva >>> Sasha > Zola > Vincent > Saki >>> Mehlis > Momiji > Beatrice
The rest aren't worth the fodder IMO, except maybe Waltz and Kerry. Cypria isn't a full-time duelist, she's dropped specifically for Assassinate gambling 90% of the time she's used, Cloris has assassinate, a RNG based ability, Garret is outclassed by Elva and you shouldn't need another defensive unit besides Leanne, Cyrus is outclassed by Sasha and Zola and I prefer Mehlis' AW ability.

Reasoning for the recommended:
Spica: No-brainer, powering up herself, Bashira and Rita YES YES YES
Iris: Stronger healer, much more cost-effective than Liana? Yes please.
Cuterie: gift farming, 'nuff said
Elva: To be your 2ndary blocker, bulky dps ftw
Sasha: Because who doesn't like faster attacks from the mage with the highest raw power of the platinums?
Zola: -10 range to attack faster, plus she's cheaper than Sasha or even Mehlis/Cyrus and very helpful in Crystal Keeper
Vincent: decent AW ability, very useful for ripping through undead when they come, the low Attack stat is deceptive as he always fires 3 shots
Saki: ranged melee, black stats and 1 sec initial skill timer
Mehlis: for when you want a cheaper, but weaker Sasha
Momiji: decent duelist and her skill can either be gatekeeper or with Liana massive boost with little penalty
Beatrice: decent ranged option but I'm not a fan of chance-based abilities (considering Sasha/Mehlis have basically the same thing but 100% instead of 20%, not much contest there)

Waltz and Kerry are options if you use them a lot, otherwise I wouldn't bother. It is worth noting that Waltz will boost Vincent and skill-using Bashira/Elva through the roof on damage output.

[Eab1990]

But it is really subjective, for example bashira's AW ability sucks. So she is almost always last to AW unless you have no options for archers.

Nah, Victoria's AW ability sucks.

AW Bashira is good for those times you need to get rid of pesky black goblin archers and the like.

It's less useful if you have to deal with lichs or other ranged bosses when there are other enemies she needs to focus on instead. Memento's maps screwed me up a bit thanks to that.

[lolix]

as others said , spica is a high priority aw unit. For most of us , spica was the first unit to awaken for the simlple fact that archers are just so general use.


Other then that , im lazy to look at your team comp , but as a general rule of thumb , going for units that increase the drop rates or buff other units is a good ideea. So stuff like bernice , katie , spica , uzume , aria , monica , cuterie , celia were stuff that were really high on my personal aw list because they have the best utility. OFC awakening stuff like iris or camilla or whatever other healer u have there is also great.


Other then that , just go for what u like more , and for what u use more

[IvanLedah21]

Nah, Victoria's AW ability sucks.

AW Bashira is good for those times you need to get rid of pesky black goblin archers and the like.

It's less useful if you have to deal with lichs or other ranged bosses when there are other enemies she needs to focus on instead. Memento's maps screwed me up a bit thanks to that.

I'd take Victoria's AW ability over Bashira's since those goblin archers can be tanked by way more units than liches can. Defense is easy to find, MR not so much. Sure, liches are way rarer than goblin archers and the like, but they also tend to be harder to deal with (if you don't have Sophie, Sybilla, Clissa, etc. then you often end up swapping lightning rods; black goblin archers hit hard sure, but drop a mage then Gellius/Bernice with heal support and they'll melt easily enough).

TLDR: Bernice is a common enough unit that can tank Goblin Archers (even black ones with skill) while most of the units necessary to lightning rod multiple liches are Black rarity, or at least platinum, but it all depends on team availability. Bashira's skill blows away Victoria's most of the time though, so there's that.

[Nero010]

I'd take Victoria's AW ability over Bashira's since those goblin archers can be tanked by way more units than liches can. Defense is easy to find, MR not so much. Sure, liches are way rarer than goblin archers and the like, but they also tend to be harder to deal with (if you don't have Sophie, Sybilla, Clissa, etc. then you often end up swapping lightning rods; black goblin archers hit hard sure, but drop a mage then Gellius/Bernice with heal support and they'll melt easily enough).

TLDR: Bernice is a common enough unit that can tank Goblin Archers (even black ones with skill) while most of the units necessary to lightning rod multiple liches are Black rarity, or at least platinum, but it all depends on team availability. Bashira's skill blows away Victoria's most of the time though, so there's that.

Funny is that it took me 5-6 months and 150€ to get one bernice while the OP doesnt even own her. Its ok to have an opinion but dont generalize - for some Bashiras AW is a lot more usefull then Victorias regardles. Its ways to situational for both.

[kayfabe]

[Anyway, Elva and Momiji are both decent targets with that army comp. They're obviously not as tough as an SU'd Bernice or a Gellius but they can squeak by on most maps just fine with careful deployment. Just be careful with Awakened Momiji--she's not fragile, exactly, but there's still plenty of waves you won't want to 3 block for long without having a survival skill of some sort. Which, incidentally, may be the single best argument against Awakening Garrett--he's cheap and tougher than people often give him credit for, but it's really easy for 4 blocking to get him in over his head.

[buttlover]

Nah, Victoria's AW ability sucks.

AW Bashira is good for those times you need to get rid of pesky black goblin archers and the like.

It's less useful if you have to deal with lichs or other ranged bosses when there are other enemies she needs to focus on instead. Memento's maps screwed me up a bit thanks to that.

Indeed victoria is a worse version of bashira, at least bashira's SAW makes her a mini-nanaly, lucky OP doesn't have her so its moot point.
I was trying to encourage spica since he has already AW rita.

Either way MalusCorvus, just to empathize, spica is the 2nd archer I'll recommend for AW.
Belinda is the mage I'll recommend, and Iris + cuterie because its easy to AW + usefulness.
If you still lack a good HA and those AW, just go with your highest unit that can block at least 3.

[Eab1990]

I'd take Victoria's AW ability over Bashira's since those goblin archers can be tanked by way more units than liches can. Defense is easy to find, MR not so much. Sure, liches are way rarer than goblin archers and the like, but they also tend to be harder to deal with (if you don't have Sophie, Sybilla, Clissa, etc. then you often end up swapping lightning rods; black goblin archers hit hard sure, but drop a mage then Gellius/Bernice with heal support and they'll melt easily enough).

TLDR: Bernice is a common enough unit that can tank Goblin Archers (even black ones with skill) while most of the units necessary to lightning rod multiple liches are Black rarity, or at least platinum, but it all depends on team availability. Bashira's skill blows away Victoria's most of the time though, so there's that.

You shouldn't have an archer focus-firing on lichs to begin with though. Unless said archer is Nanaly. Or the lich is literally alone.

Lichs are bad for both AW Bashira and AW Victoria, it's just that Bashira is less screwed by it since she also prioritizes other enemies that can, y'know, actually hurt her and other ranged allies, thus potentially removing the need to throw down a tank to be saved for later (read: lichs again). Whereas Victoria won't target the enemy archers/cannoneers, so if a group of those show up with a lich, she's definitely screwed without a tank.

[MalusCorvus]

Well, the simplest reason for not Awakening Bernice or Spica is that I don't have them. Reason I didn't get Spica from trading post is that... 1, I had several archers already; 2, I got Saki once and regretted that for a long time (though eventually I decided it'd be better to level her than Azami), and 3, I've been using my Demon Crystals for other things. Well, largely - I'm about to reach 300, but that still means I either get Spica or 2 Awakening spirits. Although I'll probably get Spica - if I Awaken more than one unit at the same time they'll be competing for EXP fodder, and at least while I wait for fodder I can give affection gifts to Spica.

Also, I too wasn't impressed with Bashira's Awakened ability. Largely I hadn't Awakened her because I like Rita more from a character perspective, and Bashira is still pretty powerful despite being CC-70 compared to Rita's AW-75 as of this posting. Arguably I might never need to Awaken her.

[lolix]

pretty sure i was the one that told u to ignore saki for a long time and get spica first. SPica is the first unit u should ever get from TP. She is a very good unit , with a very good skill , and a very good passive.

Shes my second msot used archer after nanaly , and i have a cc70 bashira and a rita as well. She becomes even better when u have nanaly after u awaken spica for the simple fact that she gives nanaly 28% more damage per each voley , literally making her quadra shot a , penta shot. She also gives 21% more damage per voley to bashira which is also really damn good.

Also her skill is pretty nice to have if maxed.

[IvanLedah21]

You shouldn't have an archer focus-firing on lichs to begin with though. Unless said archer is Nanaly. Or the lich is literally alone.

Lichs are bad for both AW Bashira and AW Victoria, it's just that Bashira is less screwed by it since she also prioritizes other enemies that can, y'know, actually hurt her and other ranged allies, thus potentially removing the need to throw down a tank to be saved for later (read: lichs again). Whereas Victoria won't target the enemy archers/cannoneers, so if a group of those show up with a lich, she's definitely screwed without a tank.

Fair enough except... when are you EVER going to throw down ANY archer and leave her vulnerable to targeted fire? My point is killing liches quickly is generally more vital than killing enemy archers since archers are easier to tank than liches unless you have certain units like Sophie, most of whom are black rarity and therefore not commonly owned. Also, do liches have high defense? Otherwise I don't see an issue with killing them with archers (unless you have an AW VH lol). Any physical ranged unit should do as long as they're protected from attacks by tanks/lightning rods and if you're not lucky enough to have a high-quality lightning rod you're going to need to do swapping and having Victoria focus on the lich means it dies sooner, therefore fewer lightning rod swaps needed.

Also, I acknowledged in my recommendation post that TC doesn't have Bernice, the reason I brought her up is to show that there are plenty of units that can tank archers that aren't rare summons, while the units that can tank liches are much rarer and most of them are Plat or Black.


Now to be fair, I have a lot of premium units so this isn't an issue I've had to deal with, so my theoretical statements here could be inaccurate in practice. I'm talking how it looks on paper.

[Eab1990]

Fair enough except... when are you EVER going to throw down ANY archer and leave her vulnerable to targeted fire? My point is killing liches quickly is generally more vital than killing enemy archers since archers are easier to tank than liches unless you have certain units like Sophie, most of whom are black rarity and therefore not commonly owned. Also, do liches have high defense? Otherwise I don't see an issue with killing them with archers (unless you have an AW VH lol). Any physical ranged unit should do as long as they're protected from attacks by tanks/lightning rods and if you're not lucky enough to have a high-quality lightning rod you're going to need to do swapping and having Victoria focus on the lich means it dies sooner, therefore fewer lightning rod swaps needed.

Also, I acknowledged in my recommendation post that TC doesn't have Bernice, the reason I brought her up is to show that there are plenty of units that can tank archers that aren't rare summons, while the units that can tank liches are much rarer and most of them are Plat or Black.


Now to be fair, I have a lot of premium units so this isn't an issue I've had to deal with, so my theoretical statements here could be inaccurate in practice. I'm talking how it looks on paper.

A lot of G maps (maybe some X maps too) have early goblin archers, and thus you don't have the luxury to drop an expensive tank early, especially if you need to save them for something bigger later in the map.

That mostly applies to blind runs though. Still, if you know a lich is on that map, then naturally you'll put ranged units down first, and that sometimes means putting the archers in the line of fire alone until you're ready to bring out the healers/tanks. AW Bashira just circumvents the need for an early melee tank.

[buttlover]

Well, the simplest reason for not Awakening Bernice or Spica is that I don't have them. Reason I didn't get Spica from trading post is that... 1, I had several archers already; 2, I got Saki once and regretted that for a long time (though eventually I decided it'd be better to level her than Azami), and 3, I've been using my Demon Crystals for other things. Well, largely - I'm about to reach 300, but that still means I either get Spica or 2 Awakening spirits. Although I'll probably get Spica - if I Awaken more than one unit at the same time they'll be competing for EXP fodder, and at least while I wait for fodder I can give affection gifts to Spica.

Also, I too wasn't impressed with Bashira's Awakened ability. Largely I hadn't Awakened her because I like Rita more from a character perspective, and Bashira is still pretty powerful despite being CC-70 compared to Rita's AW-75 as of this posting. Arguably I might never need to Awaken her.

True, Bashira's AW priority on the AW list isn't high until the SAW(Skill AWakening) comes out. Hopefully you'll get get good HA to AW once you are done with spica. Don't forget belinda is another good AW target too, she has the same AW buff as spica except for mages.

[Unregistered]

for witches* not mages.

[lolix]

True, Bashira's AW priority on the AW list isn't high until the SAW(Skill AWakening) comes out. Hopefully you'll get get good HA to AW once you are done with spica. Don't forget belinda is another good AW target too, she has the same AW buff as spica except for mages.

except for witches you mean. Garania has that for mages

[IvanLedah21]

A lot of G maps (maybe some X maps too) have early goblin archers, and thus you don't have the luxury to drop an expensive tank early, especially if you need to save them for something bigger later in the map.

That mostly applies to blind runs though. Still, if you know a lich is on that map, then naturally you'll put ranged units down first, and that sometimes means putting the archers in the line of fire alone until you're ready to bring out the healers/tanks. AW Bashira just circumvents the need for an early melee tank.

Valid point, depends on the UP situation early on, and if you have soldiers/Valkyries/whatever to play "early melee tank" (though soldiers at least are often deployed back near the Hearts to give time for skill, block multiple paths, etc.). My theoretical talk didn't really think about early in the maps, as by the point that liches show up, you're often fine on UP (granted, some maps this isn't the case)

[Ramazan]

Everybody talking about power, damage, usefullness stuff but no harem collection. Even for that i'd get all tp units. And i wanted to add spica aw to +1, without her spirit rescue X can be a mess with just other units, dunno if your aw rita can one-shot them tho.
Well most ppl already explained the stuff, i just wanted to point a different thing.

Another thing is i dont think bernice is that easy to get, i had even better luck getting sophies but not her :D in 8 months of playing i just get one and even that was from a reroll account, so there is nothing wrong with OP imo. If you have memento and leanne, you dont really need more for tanking except if elvas style suits you and want to invest to her. One of our next events is a HA, offensive one but her stats are good if not like gellius or deine.

[MalusCorvus]

except for witches you mean. Garania has that for mages

I don't really care for witches that much, though. Maybe this changes on AW, but the slowdown effect is negligible so their only real use to me is as cheap magic damage. As a result I've thus far been fine with just Cloris, although I'll check out Belinda.


Fair enough except... when are you EVER going to throw down ANY archer and leave her vulnerable to targeted fire?

I do, if the archer's name is "Rita."


Everybody talking about power, damage, usefullness stuff but no harem collection. Even for that i'd get all tp units. And i wanted to add spica aw to +1, without her spirit rescue X can be a mess with just other units, dunno if your aw rita can one-shot them tho.
Well most ppl already explained the stuff, i just wanted to point a different thing.

Oh, Rita does indeed wreak havoc on flyers. Even the red gargoyles/flyers/whatever go down in seconds. Of course, I don't even use her for Spirit Rescue X, I use Bashira.

[lolix]

you should definetly get spica. Seriously , shes a powerhouse , and im saying that as someone that has all the archers you have + nanaly

rita has at max lvl (awakened) 532 attack and a defensive skill.
Bashira has 559 and triple shot
Nanaly has 627 and quadra shot
Spica has 589 and excelent shot +7% extra damage from passive (which will increase the damage to your other archers as well )
Victoria has 550 and increase attack


As you can see , she has the highest base damage out of all archers that are not nanaly. Besides that , she also has increased attack speed (5%) over other archers because shes an elf and after aw the 7% damage buff as well

Her skill is also really good , for the simple fact that it gives her both damage and range and lasts a whole lot
Besides that spica starts at cr1 compared to all other plat archers

[buttlover]

I don't really care for witches that much, though. Maybe this changes on AW, but the slowdown effect is negligible so their only real use to me is as cheap magic damage. As a result I've thus far been fine with just Cloris, although I'll check out Belinda.



I do, if the archer's name is "Rita."



Oh, Rita does indeed wreak havoc on flyers. Even the red gargoyles/flyers/whatever go down in seconds. Of course, I don't even use her for Spirit Rescue X, I use Bashira.

Fair point, rita's shadow passive is really useful in many situations that would kill the other archers. For that, they over nerfed her dmg sadly. She still does dmg comparable to gold archers so at least that works. Waiting for that rebalance buff that would break the game and I'll use her for all my adventures! Until then... ヽ( ಥ﹏ಥ)ﾉ

I am really surprised how you managed to clear some maps without at least 2 decent witches. It seems like a requirement on some maps. Well i guess having multiple blacks is black magic!

[slyyr]

I generally go by if its part of my core team it will be awakened eventually. Depending on resources I just go with what I can do first. With RNG sometimes thats the best way to go.

[MalusCorvus]

Fair point, rita's shadow passive is really useful in many situations that would kill the other archers. For that, they over nerfed her dmg sadly. She still does dmg comparable to gold archers so at least that works. Waiting for that rebalance buff that would break the game and I'll use her for all my adventures! Until then... ヽ( ಥ﹏ಥ)ﾉ

I was wondering why Rita's damage was only slightly higher than Bashira's despite being so many levels above. I guess the issue isn't that Bashira isn't overpowered (as much), it's that Rita got nerfed. I don't regret Awakening Rita, even though I did it for "personal" reasons, since her Seclusion skill gives her a tactical niche that I rather like. She's often the first unit I place, and right in front of enemy spawns, since her skill means she can function without healers for extended periods. Generally I park Liana just outside healing range, and that way I can use Liana's skill to heal Rita if needed.


I am really surprised how you managed to clear some maps without at least 2 decent witches. It seems like a requirement on some maps. Well i guess having multiple blacks is black magic!

You may be right about that. Sybilla is absurd, and I tend to make do with the various units I do have. I won't deny that having more than one witch would have made some maps easier, and I still can't beat the challenge mission War of Magic, which I realize is in part due to my lack of cheap magic.

Meanwhile, I think the need for a high-power, high-cost tank/blocker is the most pressing at the moment until I can get Spica leveled. I don't quite want to level Garrett up yet, but I notice that Elva only blocks 2 units even on Awakened. So, I think I may go for Momiji. I find her interesting, and as I said, 3 blocks + Samurai, along with the Power Attack AW ability and Strength of the Fierce God (which currently puts her behind only Sybilla and, funny enough, Eunice, for highest damage per attack) is too fun an idea to pass up.

[Sincronic]

Archers get 40% dmg vs air units after awakening right? or do they have some %age with CC?

In any case, Bashira is a solid dps (from lolix: 559) and adding prince and 40% and triple shot... she will deal with aerial units rather fast.
And even vs. ground units, Bashira can > Spica just on some scenarios where 1 strong arrow isn't enough. Such as fast armored wolves or the likes.

Personally i'd prioritize Iris, her placement-heal is really useful

[buttlover]

Archers get 40% dmg vs air units after awakening right? or do they have some %age with CC?

In any case, Bashira is a solid dps (from lolix: 559) and adding prince and 40% and triple shot... she will deal with aerial units rather fast.
And even vs. ground units, Bashira can > Spica just on some scenarios where 1 strong arrow isn't enough. Such as fast armored wolves or the likes.

Personally i'd prioritize Iris, her placement-heal is really useful

Do they? I might have missed that post, I always thought its mostly flying units being unarmored and archers dealing the highest dmg when dealing with unarmored units.

Bashira's AW is only a change in shooting priority targeting shooters first while victoria's is magic priority, targeting magic dealers first.
Thats why they generally make poor AW targets for your first units.

Making spica which already has the highest consistent dmg, even better with her +7% dmg to archers.
Eventually the others should be awakened as well mostly because of their SAW potential. Not sure when that will be implemented though, its a big step.

[IvanLedah21]

Archers get a 20% damage increase to flying units
Snipers get 30%
Artemisia get 40%

Due to Victoria and Bashira merely having target priority changes for AW bonuses, they are way down on the priority list compared to Spica (7% Attack Up ALL archers just by being in squad), Nanaly (+30 range) and Rita (20% chance to fire 2 shots at once, helps her low (for a platinum) damage some).


Momiji's Block 3 is a double-edged sword. She has decent bulk and her skill can boost her stats to godly levels briefly, plus she attacks all 3 targets at once. On the other hand, she doesn't have the HP/Defense to tank hard hitters/multiple moderate hitters, and therefore is more of an anti-rush unit than a true blocker. Elva only blocks 2 even after AW but that gives her a lot more survivability (her stats are lower than Momiji's but Momiji NEEDS that extra bulk due to her extra block) and she gets that passive to chip in some more defense if she gets in trouble. She also attacks MUCH faster than Momiji (Samurai are among the slower attackers, Elva's among the faster ones) and with skill is on par with Saki in attack speed. Which is better depends on enemy composition and timing.

[lolix]

generally , getting a tank is better then anything , and if missing bernice , id suggest leanne , even over garret.

Leanne , assuming max skill level has enough defense to be on par with skill ussage marribel. (at max cc , before awakening)

Consider this - marribel , which is a plat heavy , with holy awakening. Holy awakening makes marribels stats black tier.


That means , that a max skill leanne CAN be used as a tank of sorts for most situations, considering she has stats that far ouclass her rarity. Still , id hope for a gold rush if i were you and try to aquire a bernice , since leanne cant be awakened for one , and garret is a pretty shitty tank in general

[buttlover]

Consider this - marribel , which is a plat heavy , with holy awakening. Holy awakening makes marribels stats black tier.


I also thought that was true as well, until recently where I got to try out maribel myself in dmm's daily revival.
She is HIGHLY situational, is the best way to put it.

Her normal stats are even worse than leeanne's, a silver unit.
And the waiting time for her ability has forced me to dismiss her early more than once.
That shit is scary.

Well, i guess it wont matter to most newbies till her revival comes and they can test it themselves.

[lolix]

Ofc she is situational. All holy awakening units are. They have crapier stats in general to compensate for their huge increase in stats during skill usage.

As i said , marribel during skill has black tier stats. The problem is that you have to time her deployment just right

[IvanLedah21]

Ofc she is situational. All holy awakening units are. They have crapier stats in general to compensate for their huge increase in stats during skill usage.

As i said , marribel during skill has black tier stats. The problem is that you have to time her deployment just right

And some maps might not let you, between tight UP and wave timing/composition. Which is why if you have Bernice, Gellius or Deine, you might as well forget Maribel altogether (ok that's a bit of an exaggeration but those 3 are so easy to fit into tanking situations that it's like "why bother with a unit that requires special timing when you have X unit that does the same thing without such a requirement, even if they're weaker in the OPTIMAL situation?")

[MalusCorvus]

Do they? I might have missed that post, I always thought its mostly flying units being unarmored and archers dealing the highest dmg when dealing with unarmored units.

Yeah, archers get bonus damage against fliers, as mentioned. Which I've always thought was funny from a game design perspective, how archers in games often get bonuses against flying units, but that's for another time...

[lolix]

And some maps might not let you, between tight UP and wave timing/composition. Which is why if you have Bernice, Gellius or Deine, you might as well forget Maribel altogether (ok that's a bit of an exaggeration but those 3 are so easy to fit into tanking situations that it's like "why bother with a unit that requires special timing when you have X unit that does the same thing without such a requirement, even if they're weaker in the OPTIMAL situation?")

You do realize that marribels skill cd/timing is irelevant i the context of what i was saying ...

I was talking about her sheer stats during skill usage , and was saying how LEANNE has literally the same defense....while also having generally better stats then marrible without skill usage.



Point i was trying to make was that leanne is a pretty good tank to have...probably better then garret (well , better then cc garret , not AW garret - for the simple fact that he gains like 1k hp over her after awakening) , considering he lacks bernice or gelius or deine

[buttlover]

Ofc she is situational. All holy awakening units are. They have crapier stats in general to compensate for their huge increase in stats during skill usage.

As i said , marribel during skill has black tier stats. The problem is that you have to time her deployment just right

It just felt weird to me when people used to praise maribel as one of the top plats while the other one with the same ability Emilia gets shit on as a bad unit.
Guess it shows the just how core the role of HA (and now MA) played at the start of aigis, at least compared to duelists.

[kayfabe]

I was talking about her sheer stats during skill usage , and was saying how LEANNE has literally the same defense....while also having generally better stats then marrible without skill usage.


That's not completely off-base, but unfortunately a lot of Maribel's "Black Tier" stats are allocated to her offense and aren't terribly representative of the kind of stats people really look for in a tank. Beating Mari out in defense is impressive but not quite enough to make people overlook a silver tier hp total. Leeanne is as good of a low rarity unit as you could ever hope for but looking at high health off-tank classes is definitely an intriguing alternative when you've already got a black healer up and running to help support it.

[IvanLedah21]

Basically, Maribel crushes Leanne in offense during skill usage, but you don't deploy a HA for offense 99% of the time (Skill AW Deine might be an exception), and since Leanne nearly ties her in defense WHILE SHE HAS "Black Tier stats" that means Leanne is clearly viable for tanking a good deal of the content we have. But Kayfabe has a good point in pointing out Leanne's lack of HP can be an issue, so Elva looks like a good option

Leanne at CC50: 1931 HP, 507 Defense, 811 Defense during skill
Elva CC70: 2451 HP, 309 Defense
Elva AW1: 2228 HP, 306 Defense, 459 Defense under 50% HP
Elva: AW 90: 3064 HP, 460 Defense, 690 Defense under 50% HP

Obviously, most Elva users will have her somewhere between 1 and 90 AW lol. Elva gets crushed defensively during skill, without it's pretty even despite the Defense gap due to the HP gap and the AW passive potentially coming into play depending on how much heal support she gets vs. damage incoming. On the other hand, she obviously obliterates Leanne offensively, which means killing whatever is attacking her MUCH sooner without ranged support.

Worth mentioning Leanne's skill won't come into play until 30 seconds after deployment.

[lolix]

also worth mentioning that 1 is a silver rarity unit which will cost just another silver to cc , while the other is an AW plat unit which is a whole deal more expensive.


For what she is meant to do , leanne IS REALLY good...especially for her rarity. Id argue that she has stats/power over her rarity , but thats besides the point.

As it stands , she IS A BETTER TANK THEN garret....obviously unless u awaken garret (which is a bit of a waste IMO) , and even then , she still has the better defensive skill while garret is more of a bruiser then a tank. And considering that a heavy blocks 4 past awakening , i dunno if thats really advantageous for an offensive Heavy....unless your name is deine , ofc

[kayfabe]

Yeah, I'm just trying to stress that sometimes the relative rankings are mostly academic. Heavies can often tank as well as a unit a tier or two higher, but that cuts both ways--some units can basically work like a blinged out Leanne.

[MalusCorvus]

Which is all irrelevant to me because I don't have Maribel. :P

...Did I state my plans for Momiji over Elva? I don't recall...

[buttlover]

Which is all irrelevant to me because I don't have Maribel. :P

...Did I state my plans for Momiji over Elva? I don't recall...

Maribel is the 2nd event after belinda, which is 2 weeks-1 month on DMM's old revival schedule for reference.
We don't know nutaku's own revival schedule yet though.

[lolix]

Which is all irrelevant to me because I don't have Maribel. :P

...Did I state my plans for Momiji over Elva? I don't recall...

and yet , you still miss the point of everything ive said.

I wasnt trying to promote Mari , but Leanne.

Im still wondering why are you using a garret instead of leanne as your main heavy

[buttlover]

and yet , you still miss the point of everything ive said.

I wasnt trying to promote Mari , but Leanne.

Im still wondering why are you using a garret instead of leanne as your main heavy

On the bright side, he will make clearing male only maps that much easier.

Garret and leeanne arent that big of a difference if you are a whale, you'll eventually get something better and blacker.

[MalusCorvus]

and yet , you still miss the point of everything ive said.

I wasnt trying to promote Mari , but Leanne.

Im still wondering why are you using a garret instead of leanne as your main heavy

Never said I didn't have Leanne... I didn't mention her because I can't Awaken her.

I generally use Garett a lot because he has more health and more offense, though I suppose depending on the enemy those aren't as important. Still, he does have advantages over her.

[ZeroZet]

Momiji have comparable eHP and better offence. Only real advantage Garret have over her is cost and tri-blocking at CC level (I'll agrue than 4-blocking after AW can be too much for him)).
And Leeanne have MORE eHP raw, and EVEN MORE eHP under her skill (vs physical attacks) than both at CC level, so really, when you want to tank thing before climbing high into Awakening levels on mentioned units, you oftentime better to use her.

[MalusCorvus]

eHP? Effective HP? How's that different?

Also, I was mostly thinking Momiji compared to Elva - I'm not sure about Awakening Garrett since I know from experience from CC-ing soldiers and such, that more blocks can sometimes mean more enemies than a unit can handle. I think Momiji's up to the task, though - one advantage of Strength of the Fierce God is that if she's getting overwhelmed I can let the paralysis take effect.

[kayfabe]

Effective Health/Effective Hit Points is the term we use for hit points plus relevant guaranteed damage reductions like Defense or MR--basically, it's the amount of damage that would cause the unit to keel over from one swing. It's handy to know but obviously isn't the only relevant calculation for tanking--e.g., bandits tend to have high effective health but they're skewed so heavily towards pure hit points that they often require an impractical amount of healing support to weather multiple hits. Leeanne's at the opposite extreme; her health is marginally lower than CC60 Garrett's and often far lower than that of a bandit but despite being a silver she's skewed so heavily towards pure defense that she can tank multiple fast attackers just fine when her skill is up.

[soranokira]

Momiji have comparable eHP and better offence. Only real advantage Garret have over her is cost and tri-blocking at CC level (I'll agrue than 4-blocking after AW can be too much for him)).
And Leeanne have MORE eHP raw, and EVEN MORE eHP under her skill (vs physical attacks) than both at CC level, so really, when you want to tank thing before climbing high into Awakening levels on mentioned units, you oftentime better to use her.

don't think you understand how eHP works. as kayfabe mentioned, eHP = hp + def. it was used primarily for handling golems and their high attack stat. some of the golems hit 2.5k, 4k, and 5.2k, hence eHP was calculated to see which units were able to survive a single hit from those golems. def is less of an issue due to enemy attack being very slow such that a healer can get more than 3 heals in between each attack. Leeanne actually has really low ehp, barely able to survive a single 2.5k attack, but her defense is high for a silver and usually does better than garrett.

as for rest of topic, not going to read in-depth, but garrett is most likely not the best choice of unit to focus on leveling. Leeanne usually suffices for most content and Garrett usually isn't good enough for anything that leeanne can't tank.

[kayfabe]

The other strike against poor Garrett is that Bernard is already pretty capable if you want a male tank or dislike the idea of using a duplicate Leeanne. I still occasionally use Garrett just for some fun and extra offense but ultimately it's tough to argue against turning him into AW fodder or a few more Rainbow Crystals. He was somewhat defensible thanks to his post AW health prior to the balance patch but the Samurai buffs really crowds him out of the tiny "I don't have a Bernice" niche he had carved out for himself. He's still tougher than Sanosuke or Kojuro but he can't touch their wave clear.

[ZeroZet]

Nah, I do know that eHP indicates how much punishment unit can take in one go before keeling over. While generally it does matters mostly for superbosses, and you just want to have higher stats for everyday tanking, knowing how durable your units are can be good measurement stick to compare them.

Meaning, Momiji and Garret have comparable survivability, while Leeanne with her skill have more.)