[Merry Christmas] 5+ Star Gacha Ticket Plus Thread

[Skulkraken]

Got Gardenia from my ticket roll.

[Zandel]

It's really the same thing as the term RPG. I still refuse to call any game from the Diablo series an RPG, they're mere hack and slash games making use of some mechanics commonly found in RPGs even though those mechanics are not qualifications for the RPG genre. Ofcourse, there's also people who are pretty passionate at categorizing Diablo III as an RPG.

TBH anyone who calls Diablo anything an RPG and not a Hack & Slash really does not understand the term RPG.

It's all about definition.

RPG's: Role Playing Games, meaning you have to act out a role for the game to classify as one and that means making choices. Diablo games do not give you the choice to do anything but slaughter your enemies. The fact that you can choose different ways / classes might be grounds to call it like an RPG but it's really not enough. Tho it is enough to be grounds for debate I suppose.

P2W however, is a clear definition. If you can get ahead of someone else by spending real money then it's P2W, simple. With this term there is absolutely no grey area. A game either is or is not P2W. FKG is and anyone who says it is not is simply wrong.

[Unregistered]

Please, let us not say NUTAKU is Greedy. Let's just say we are Unlucky

[sniddy]

P2W however, is a clear definition. If you can get ahead of someone else by spending real money then it's P2W, simple. With this term there is absolutely no grey area. A game either is or is not P2W. FKG is and anyone who says it is not is simply wrong.

I tend to agree with this statement, but in the fact that there is 0 competition - there is no-one to 'get ahead of' so I don't find this game P2W

To expand on this P2W also is to me a game that is set up to either make you grind ridiculously hard or pay to win, and the top tier is normally 100% wallet warriors E-peen-ing off against each other - that's fine, but it tends to end up destroying games long term as the top keeps going up and up and catching up for a new player is harder and harder, or more importantly expensive and expensiver - the new players dry up and the older players start to leave - the whales having less to show off to and get bored and leave and the game slowly implodes in on itself - Take Marvel Avengers Alliance which dies this death after a good 3 years+

FKG - biggest 2 issues a newb faces

1) Event girls were more powerful in the 1st few events, and I suspect one day they may make the revival events ever green - maybe maybe not....it's hardly agaem

2) The pool is larger - getting dupes may be near impossible so 5* girls are more likely to be 1 equips - hopefully they'll address that in ways by making dress-blooms more available.

So they can 'win' the game fine, can beat any event, 3 medal every stage and it won't cost a penny.

So I struggle to deem this P2W - there is no one to get ahead of no pay barrier, no ultra grind fest that $20 will bypass, no event that can really be made 10x easier for $10

Sure you can buy gems for stamina or extra rolls, you can do the step ups - but it's for your benefit you want something....you're paying for shiny for cosmetic goodness - not to 'win'

[Myrdin]

Take Marvel Avengers Alliance which dies this death after a good 3 years+


Hoho I remember how my friends who played this bigtime since start were pissed/sad about the game suddenly dying.
I tried it a few times, but to me the game was uninspiring pieco of crap, where older players who had bigger character pull, could literally pull some crazy combos out of their without as much as an effort. And the mechanics were pretty much nonexistent. Boring, dull, uninspiring.
Plus it was shitty Marvel Universe, which is one of the worst balanced universes I´ve seen out there.

-------------------------

As for the whole pay 2 win thing. While it generally is correct that Nutaku/DMM content is Pay 2 Win, the fact that its exactly that - general - categorizing is the important part.
Generally - yes its pay to win, Case on case basis - not its not exactly pay to win, simply due to the lack of PVP.
P2W is not applicable in non PVP games.
Thats like saying someone who has the same game as you, but buys a DLC extra content is P2W. That makes no sense at all.
Or generalising that all boys like blue clothes, all girls like pink clothes, all cats hate water and all asians love rice.
That is simply wrong as there always are exceptions, and its not possible to stay objective on the matter if one decides to ignore those exceptions.

So yes, while FKG belongs to the generall category of P2W games, FKG itself, the way its setup, the way it handles Player to Player interaction, with literally 0 PVP content is NOT a Pay 2 Win game, as simply there is NO competition in the game (and I dont consider the TP ranking to be a "proper competition"). You can pay to enhance the pace of you progress but, unlike in a PVP game this does not net you any distinct advantage over other players.
Thats simply not a thing.

[IvanLedah21]

Hoho I remember how my friends who played this bigtime since start were pissed/sad about the game suddenly dying.
I tried it a few times, but to me the game was uninspiring pieco of crap, where older players who had bigger character pull, could literally pull some crazy combos out of their without as much as an effort. And the mechanics were pretty much nonexistent. Boring, dull, uninspiring.
Plus it was shitty Marvel Universe, which is one of the worst balanced universes I´ve seen out there.

-------------------------

As for the whole pay 2 win thing. While it generally is correct that Nutaku/DMM content is Pay 2 Win, the fact that its exactly that - general - categorizing is the important part.
Generally - yes its pay to win, Case on case basis - not its not exactly pay to win, simply due to the lack of PVP.
P2W is not applicable in non PVP games.
Thats like saying someone who has the same game as you, but buys a DLC extra content is P2W. That makes no sense at all.
Or generalising that all boys like blue clothes, all girls like pink clothes, all cats hate water and all asians love rice.
That is simply wrong as there always are exceptions, and its not possible to stay objective on the matter if one decides to ignore those exceptions.

So yes, while FKG belongs to the generall category of P2W games, FKG itself, the way its setup, the way it handles Player to Player interaction, with literally 0 PVP content is NOT a Pay 2 Win game, as simply there is NO competition in the game (and I dont consider the TP ranking to be a "proper competition"). You can pay to enhance the pace of you progress but, unlike in a PVP game this does not net you any distinct advantage over other players.
Thats simply not a thing.

I agree, as does EAB and I'm sure others but apparently Zandel considers any speed-up "winning" as well

I already pointed out games like PPS, DP and AS are Nutaku P2W games for sure. MWA, FKG, X-Overd and the like are not due to total lack of PVP. Not sure about BGR (haven't seen any yet but there were hints about Guild v. Guild or something), ditched OI early on, and not touching SP due to it looking like a horrific money grab.

[Wutan]

I would say FKG is "pay for convenience".
It's much quicker and smoother playing the game with good 5* and 6*.
You can beat the game with 3*/4* but is it fun to use crappy units unless they are waifus? Hell No.

The horrible Gacha Rates and Gem Starving (Nutaku Version) don't affect Whales that much compared to F2P cause they simply spend money to get good 5*/6* etc.

...and that's pay for convenience.

It's problematic calling new 5*/6* girls "cosmetical" cause those Girls have stats^^

Stats and Abilities are relevant for Gameplay.

[IvanLedah21]

I would say FKG is "pay for convenience".
It's much quicker and smoother playing the game with good 5* and 6*.
You can beat the game with 3*/4* but is it fun to use crappy units unless they are waifus? Hell No.

The horrible Gacha Rates and Gem Starving (Nutaku Version) don't affect Whales that much compared to F2P cause they simply spend money to get good 5*/6* etc.

...and that's pay for convenience.

It's problematic calling new 5*/6* girls "cosmetical" cause those Girls have stats^^

Stats and Abilities are relevant for Gameplay.

All the terms we come up with ;)

that said, Convenience is a good word for it. Pay to Waifu isn't quite right since as you said, their stats and abilities make it easier to clear maps (as you said, even though you CAN clear it with 3/4*s, it's neither easy nor particularly fun for most people)

[kringley]

All the terms we come up with ;)

that said, Convenience is a good word for it. Pay to Waifu isn't quite right since as you said, their stats and abilities make it easier to clear maps (as you said, even though you CAN clear it with 3/4*s, it's neither easy nor particularly fun for most people)

Well..pay for convenience is a lot of it. Pay for waifu is a part of the motivation for at least some people - certainly those who spend on their favorite even when the stats don't support it. If you count having a large collection as winning, then it's arguable as P2W. (And definitely golds and rainbows are not just cosmetic). However, with no PvP there's no place where a small advantage feels critical, and unlike some other games (including some Nutaku ones) there's never a point where you will either have to grind for an enormous number of hours to make the smallest bit of progress or just pay out (which I count as P2W).
As a side note, I think the 3*/4* stuff is a bit missing the point. Even a purely free player should have (with time and diligence) a decent collection of event golds, and a reasonable number of gacha golds from free FGs. I've only been playing since mid November, and I have 8 event golds (all but Monotropasturum at BS5/E4), and from my free FG 10+1 rolls, 2 rainbows and 5 golds, and 3 more golds from 5* tickets (Christmas, starting player, starting player day 7 login). Even with more average luck (1 gold per 10+1 roll) that'd still be something like 15 golds which should be able to get through most levels.

[Drip]

Even with more average luck (1 gold per 10+1 roll) that'd still be something like 15 golds which should be able to get through most levels.
At 6% chance to pull a gold, it's actually closer to 1 gold per 17 rolls on avarage. Just sayin', before someone with bad luck gets salty at your estimate. ;)

[Wutan]

Well..pay for convenience is a lot of it. Pay for waifu is a part of the motivation for at least some people - certainly those who spend on their favorite even when the stats don't support it. If you count having a large collection as winning, then it's arguable as P2W. (And definitely golds and rainbows are not just cosmetic). However, with no PvP there's no place where a small advantage feels critical, and unlike some other games (including some Nutaku ones) there's never a point where you will either have to grind for an enormous number of hours to make the smallest bit of progress or just pay out (which I count as P2W).
As a side note, I think the 3*/4* stuff is a bit missing the point. Even a purely free player should have (with time and diligence) a decent collection of event golds, and a reasonable number of gacha golds from free FGs. I've only been playing since mid November, and I have 8 event golds (all but Monotropasturum at BS5/E4), and from my free FG 10+1 rolls, 2 rainbows and 5 golds, and 3 more golds from 5* tickets (Christmas, starting player, starting player day 7 login). Even with more average luck (1 gold per 10+1 roll) that'd still be something like 15 golds which should be able to get through most levels.

Yeah you are right the 3*/4* stuff is a bit missing the point. But if your luck is really bad (the legendary bronze pull exists :p) it could be a long time until you get a full party of Gacha 5*/Event 5* and in that case it's convenient to speed up the process( i did it). My luck is not the worst but far from the best cause i always get 5* i am not a fan of...

There are even some guys quitting Nutaku FKG recently because of there bad luck and gem starving. If there luck will be better on DMM is another Story but they have more chances to roll something good cause DMM Players get much more free gems than us.

Your luck is solid though cause you already got 2 Rainbows and 5 Gacha Golds. You also started at the right time (Black Friday Deals, 5* Tickets etc.).

Let's say it's convenient to pay for Girls you actually want.

Not all Event Girls are good though. Heck there are a few Event Girls which are weaker than some 4*. Calla and Gentian are considered one of the weakest Event Girls. Same goes for Gacha 5*: Gerberea has lackluster Abilities and stats (HP is really bad, her attack stat is good), Bipinna Cosmos isn't that good until she gets her Skill Buff (damage becomes 1,8x to all enemies) and her Bloomed Form. She works decently in a Shine Crystal Collector Squad but there are still other Girls outclassing here.

So unless the mentioned Girls are considered waifus it's better to replace them asap.

And yes i agree: If you are a Collector and you want all available Girls it's definetely P2W.

[Eab1990]

Pay 2 waifu is everything about looks, and stats are a generally an afterthought. AKA it's less about "I need a unit that can do X", it's more about "I want this unit because my dick compels me".

In Aigis, there's plenty of units who are niche at best, if not nigh-useless, but have great designs, so people level/awaken them anyway, like, say, the sailors.

In FKG, I barely pay attention to stats/abilities either. Do I *need* a character that can negate speed panels? No, I have Lilac for that (let's conveniently ignore how she would plain not drop for me the first time her spotlight came). Is Nerine/Christmas Rose sexable? Absolutely.

[sniddy]

All the terms we come up with ;)

that said, Convenience is a good word for it. Pay to Waifu isn't quite right since as you said, their stats and abilities make it easier to clear maps (as you said, even though you CAN clear it with 3/4*s, it's neither easy nor particularly fun for most people)

Pay for convenience is the pinnacle of well built freemium gaming

I still think Nutake have the pay point set way too high, $20 for a 6* would temp me a lot more then $60

I'm sure they've decided some whales > more minnows, at least I hope they have but right now I wonder if the greed will ultimately lead to the fall of the game

[IvanLedah21]

Pay for convenience is the pinnacle of well built freemium gaming

I still think Nutake have the pay point set way too high, $20 for a 6* would temp me a lot more then $60

I'm sure they've decided some whales > more minnows, at least I hope they have but right now I wonder if the greed will ultimately lead to the fall of the game

This new deal is a step in the right direction, but that's after a couple of very wrong steps (they actually ticked off a lot of established whales, and only a handful actually went for the last few, at least among those on Discord). $50-60 has historically been the established price for guaranteed 6*s ($30ish for 5*), but the last couple deals have been gold-centric at prices on par with rainbows or worse. Their greed probably kicked them in the rear hard enough for them to spit out a deal like this (given the deals since BF's insanely good one, I doubt their holiday sales totals were where they somehow expected), but I'm not getting my hopes up for continued good deals. Time will tell, I suppose.

That said, your first sentence is truth. Freemium gaming survives on PFC, because even with costs being low compared to many companies (salaries, rent, equipment, etc. but no cost for materials for manufacturing, for example) it's obviously unsustainable if you don't get SOME gamers to pay.

[warf]

This new deal is a step in the right direction, but that's after a couple of very wrong steps (they actually ticked off a lot of established whales, and only a handful actually went for the last few, at least among those on Discord). $50-60 has historically been the established price for guaranteed 6*s ($30ish for 5*), but the last couple deals have been gold-centric at prices on par with rainbows or worse. Their greed probably kicked them in the rear hard enough for them to spit out a deal like this (given the deals since BF's insanely good one, I doubt their holiday sales totals were where they somehow expected), but I'm not getting my hopes up for continued good deals. Time will tell, I suppose.

That said, your first sentence is truth. Freemium gaming survives on PFC, because even with costs being low compared to many companies (salaries, rent, equipment, etc. but no cost for materials for manufacturing, for example) it's obviously unsustainable if you don't get SOME gamers to pay.

Sorry, with all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about. Everything they did was STRATEGY.

If 6*s always costs $10 every single event, and suddenly they have one that costs $45, people are going to complain that it's a horrible deal, etc.

They have to have those other deals, so that when these deals come, people are more likely to want to pay for them, because, psychology.

[IvanLedah21]

Sorry, with all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about. Everything they did was STRATEGY.

If 6*s always costs $10 every single event, and suddenly they have one that costs $45, people are going to complain that it's a horrible deal, etc.

They have to have those other deals, so that when these deals come, people are more likely to want to pay for them, because, psychology.

I wish I could honestly disagree with you... that what I said wasn't "thinking positively"...

Unfortunately, given N's record... you're probably right...

Excuse me, I need to cry for a moment. Reality is so cold and cruel sometimes... :'(

[Eab1990]

We had this discussion earlier though (then again maybe it was a different thread, considering this whole thread is a clusterfuck already). <br />
<br />
I think most of us were in agreement that having great...

[Unregistered]

Not sure I agree. There really are more than 1 type of &quot;whale&quot;. <br />
<br />
First of all, there are the whale whales. These are probably kids of wealthy people, and to them, money is like water. You know...

[IvanLedah21]

Not sure I agree. There really are more than 1 type of "whale".

First of all, there are the whale whales. These are probably kids of wealthy people, and to them, money is like water. You know there is a limited supply, but you just use it whenever you want without thinking too much about being wasteful. To them, as long as there's something they like, they'll pay. Doesn't matter if it's $60 or $45 or $200. To them, that difference is similar to ordinary folks thinking about whether something is 5 for 1 cent or 6 for 1 cent. i.e, it doesn't matter.

Then there are the dolphins. These people are relatively generous with their money, but do not have as deep pockets as the former. But then, these people probably aren't going to spend every month either. So better to just sacrifice a month to set up expectations, and then surpass their expectations the next month to make sure they pay.

So either way, their strategy is good. Of course, all of that is just purely theoretical, you can also have any number of counter arguments against mine. In the end, what matters is actual hard data, which I'm sure they're looking very closely at, and which we do not have.

Your theory is fairly sound, but EAB's point about the timing still stands, IMO. Holiday season is a really bad time to have terrible deals for pretty much ANY business.

[nazrin992]

I guess Nutaku thought people will prioritize their holiday money with spending on Nutaku because Nutaku is teh BESTZ EVAR at marketing:rolleyes:

[Dorei0sama]

They made a similar deal to Dmm. And apparently, a lot of people bought the same kind of deal on Dmm, Japanese rich af.

[Unregistered]

They made a similar deal to Dmm. And apparently, a lot of people bought the same kind of deal on Dmm, Japanese rich af.

You mean the grab bag gacha? Which had different contents and was three separate gacha instead of a step-up?

[Dorei0sama]

You mean the grab bag gacha? Which had different contents and was three separate gacha instead of a step-up?

It was a bit different from step up, but the price was the same. A few people paid 10000 points on dmm and still only able to get one 6* which is kind of waste i think.

[Wutan]

It was a bit different from step up, but the price was the same. A few people paid 10000 points on dmm and still only able to get one 6* which is kind of waste i think.

Yeah the 10000 DMM Point Deal wasn't the best deal they ever made ( i prefer deals for 5000 DMM Points) but it was reasonable:

On Nutaku you had to go through a 10000 Nutaku Gold Paywall to get the good stuff (Step 2 and Step 3). Step 1 was a normal 10+1 pull for 100 $ to be honest. The normal Price is 50 $ for 64 FGs.

The 10000 DMM Deal included a guaranteed 6* (random), 75 FGs and a Dressbloom and you didn't have to do the other two Gachas (3000 DMM Points and 5000 DMM Points).

That's much better than the New Year Gacha Crap from Nutaku.

The current Deal from Nutaku is better than the last DMM Deal though (a lot of people don't want to spend more than 60 $ for a Gacha, including me) but they have to suffer a bit in my opinion cause we suffered an entire month (December).

Like Ivan said it's not a good idea to fuck up your costumers on holiday season.