Kamihime General Discussion + Q&A [Archive] - Page 19

MagicSpice

05-24-2018, 12:05 AM

hmm, if I see a lvl 80 ultimate or up I should try it out... lol
my union is just a casual union, and I'm pretty much the only one who is trying to level it to 200 and above (but gave up since im the only one trying to do that alone, when the numbers hit 160+ no one was joining the rooms and even if I tried to go further each demon takes long to take out and I run out of time)

honestly, do as much as you can, even if the fight is hopeless.... there's a few reasons why:

-dying does not prevent you from getting rewards if the boss is killed
-help might show up later on and you get up to 24 hours to kill the boss anyway (when the day resets, you're out of time and the levels and grails reset)
-you still gain PP based on what you do (this is a BIG reason to fight anyway unless you got all the individual and union PP rewards).

so if you hit a "point of no return", just jump into each possible raid until you die in all of them, then stick to lilim farming until a new raid pops up.

i think this let's you into all 6 possible union raids and a lilim one.... unless it's like the normal ones where you only get in about 3 or 4 max before one of them has to die or time out

Hey hey, it's the same one as before (or was it? Am I remembering things wrong?)

Well... Ambush Belphegor Cthulhu Poseidon Kikuri-hime/ Sol seems to work well for your water team I think. And yes, IMO, continue maining water.

Your light team is decent for sure, but you'll probably get bodied early on without max debuffs on anything yet. Water for you, on the other hand, already gives you max debuffs on everything if you run Sol, and Kikuri supplies the burst if you want a kill or be killed approach.

Edit: I see you're looking to MLB an SR... My only suggestion is to pick the one that gives the best skill upgrade.

considering this is a newer player, i'd honestly use Sol over kikuri since they won't be able to take as much damage to really get the most of of the "kill or be killed" strategy.

that usually involves a lot of power and that won't happen for a while (they'll need the assault and/or high atk stat as in 30k+ to support that)

plus awakened Sol should be their priority so they should also get as many dragonic eye shards and such as they can (they should be getting materials as much as possible too). Awakened Sol pretty much rips the game a new one until we get later content, even then she's still one of the strongest kami in the game

BlazeAlter

05-24-2018, 12:48 AM

honestly, do as much as you can, even if the fight is hopeless.... there's a few reasons why:

-dying does not prevent you from getting rewards if the boss is killed
-help might show up later on and you get up to 24 hours to kill the boss anyway (when the day resets, you're out of time and the levels and grails reset)
-you still gain PP based on what you do (this is a BIG reason to fight anyway unless you got all the individual and union PP rewards).

so if you hit a "point of no return", just jump into each possible raid until you die in all of them, then stick to lilim farming until a new raid pops up.

i think this let's you into all 6 possible union raids and a lilim one.... unless it's like the normal ones where you only get in about 3 or 4 max before one of them has to die or time out

eh don't worry, I've never lost a hime once even to an expert lvl 160+ to 170+, and just earlier I tried a lvl 78 ult and things still went smoothly, (and I consider the lilim right now to be the easiest one I've seen lol) though I know that'll change if we ever hit expert 200+ or ult 100+, but since my union is just casual, I don't think I'll ever see those numbers and its too hard to get experts up to 200+ when you're the only one that wants to do it (seriously, when the experts are at lvl 150+ I'm the only guy that's still doing expert demons while everyone just waits for the day to reset or something)
I haven't really come across any problems (except when some union mates trigger the boss' def buff, which annoys me since it halves my damage output)

and I have like half of my union's PP too lol, I'm also usually the guy that cleans up all the dead rooms in experts and ults

Cobblemaniac

05-24-2018, 01:13 AM

(seriously, when the experts are at lvl 150+ I'm the only guy that's still doing expert demons while everyone just waits for the day to reset or something)
and I have like half of my union's PP too lol, I'm also usually the guy that cleans up all the dead rooms in experts and ults

Wait till competitive union is a thing.

You'll know to leave the union if they still don't give 2 shits.

BlazeAlter

05-24-2018, 01:26 AM

Wait till competitive union is a thing.

You'll know to leave the union if they still don't give 2 shits.

perhaps...
I'd leave my union if that comes to pass probably, but I hope not

Slashley

05-24-2018, 02:30 AM

... refund? 
Do you mean chargeback? As in, you call your credit card company and be like "hey, can you cancel this purchase, I didn't get what I wanted?" 
 
Yes, that WILL get you instantly banned....

Stormlash

05-24-2018, 04:49 AM

10171

Regarding AW Sol not getting dark resist on burst.
So yeah, we original content™.

Cobblemaniac

05-24-2018, 04:57 AM

10171

Regarding AW Sol not getting dark resist on burst.
So yeah, we original content™.

Time (and updates) will probably tell when it comes to A Sol's dark resist burst thing...

More importantly, I don't understand where Nutaku is coming from with their "original content"... What exactly about it is original? The assets are mostly taken from DMM side no?

Stormlash

05-24-2018, 05:05 AM

What exactly about it is original?
Basically a "don't expect to get the same content/freebies DMM does" originality. See the inventory expansions we didn't get on anniversary, or the walkure collab, and most likely, other stuff to come.

Don't see them doing any sort of original event, and frankly, I don't think I want to see some pussy saga collab either.

Slashley

05-24-2018, 05:08 AM

Basically a "don't expect to get the same content/freebies DMM does" originality. See the inventory expansions we didn't get on anniversary-- What was this, anyway?

Walkure collab didn't really have anything to collab with on English side, so I can't really blame them on that one.
Don't see them doing any sort of original event, and frankly, I don't think I want to see some pussy saga collab either.Were the DP collabs not original? They seemed bad enough to be Nutaku originals.

Stormlash

05-24-2018, 05:16 AM

.Were the DP collabs not original? They seemed bad enough to be Nutaku originals.

I meant more in an actual full-blown advent crossover, like the Koihime one, but with other Nutaku original games.

Slashley

05-24-2018, 05:29 AM

So? What was the whole inventory expansion stuff?

Unregistered

05-24-2018, 08:08 AM

So? What was the whole inventory expansion stuff?

DMM got for their 1st anniversary a 100 slot expansion for weapon+eidolon+accessories. We didn't. Someone sent a ticket, got a reply that "we are not the same game as DMM".

Cobblemaniac

05-24-2018, 08:31 AM

DMM got for their 1st anniversary a 100 slot expansion for weapon+eidolon+accessories. We didn't. Someone sent a ticket, got a reply that "we are not the same game as DMM".

That does apply when it comes to benefits... but regarding hime skills? I really really doubt they'll deviate from that at all. My money's on Sol's lack of a dark resist burst effect was a fuck up on their part, as is any other missing skill we see in the future.

Of course, can't ignore Murphy's Law, but one can hope.

HugMeTender

05-24-2018, 08:48 AM

I suppose I already know this, but Sol should be my first MLB right? I mean I haven't been playing for long so I don't even have Eyes yet, just 5 or 6 shards. But I assume even before awakening she's worth using the only 5 golden books I've got.

Edit: I've got Gaia which also has an awakening, but I assume she is less of a priority (topped with the fact I have little to no wind anything, weapons or Eidolon.)

Slashley

05-24-2018, 09:10 AM

DMM got for their 1st anniversary a 100 slot expansion for weapon+eidolon+accessories. We didn't. Someone sent a ticket, got a reply that "we are not the same game as DMM".We also got a max inventory size of 300 -> 400, though? Or do you mean they got it for free?

Cobblemaniac

05-24-2018, 09:14 AM

I suppose I already know this, but Sol should be my first MLB right? I mean I haven't been playing for long so I don't even have Eyes yet, just 5 or 6 shards. But I assume even before awakening she's worth using the only 5 golden books I've got.

Actually... it depends. Given you only have 5 shards to work with, it's safe to say you'll have at least 2 months ahead of you before you can get that cute cute awakened Sol (forgive me, I can't fucking resist my fangirling), and you'll have a couple more events to gather your golden books.

Which means what matters the most to you now is what skill boosts you get from the MLB. Sol's MLB grants her a -1 turn cd on her cleanse, which isn't bad by any means, but you have a rather strong competitor in Cthulhu, which gets you an extra 5% in her AoE C frame def break. Sure, it's a matter of you prefer, but objectively speaking, unless you're well aware of what the following events come by AND they have buffs worth cleansing, going for Cthulhu MLB is the more optimal option for the moment.

BlazeAlter

05-24-2018, 09:15 AM

That does apply when it comes to benefits... but regarding hime skills? I really really doubt they'll deviate from that at all. My money's on Sol's lack of a dark resist burst effect was a fuck up on their part, as is any other missing skill we see in the future.

Of course, can't ignore Murphy's Law, but one can hope.

They should really fix that burst effect thing that's missing from Sol

I mean, when Ares got her awakening and one of her skills got messed up, they did fix her when somebody sent a ticket about it...

blubbergott

05-24-2018, 09:21 AM

I mean, when Ares got her awakening and one of her skills got messed up, they did fix her when somebody sent a ticket about it...

You mean after they got bombarded with tickets about it, made a twitter statement that it works as intended until someone posted screenshots with a step-by-step explanation for 3 year olds to make them finally understand that there was indeed a bug? :P

BlazeAlter

05-24-2018, 09:25 AM

You mean after they got bombarded with tickets about it, made a twitter statement that it works as intended until someone posted screenshots with a step-by-step explanation for 3 year olds to make them finally understand that there was indeed a bug? :P

Lol... then I guess they should get bombarded by that again until they decide to fix it

Unregistered

05-24-2018, 09:55 AM

We also got a max inventory size of 300 -> 400, though? Or do you mean they got it for free?

They got it for free.

Slashley

05-24-2018, 10:26 AM

I see.

The loss of 3000 Jewels isn't much if you ask me (expected result: absolutely fucking nothing), and falls well into the range Nutaku<>Dmm differences.

But if they start cutting back on content itself, such as burst effects (which have become extremely popular DMM side) or Disaster stuff, then... we're going to have a huge problem.

HugMeTender

05-24-2018, 02:06 PM

Unregistered

05-24-2018, 02:49 PM

Laventale

05-24-2018, 02:54 PM

blubbergott

05-24-2018, 03:06 PM

I really don't get it guys...how come an overall ATK 36k does around the same damage output as an overall ATK 45k? I mean I wanted to test out something on equipment about Weapon Skill (full skill but lower ATK) VS Overall ATK (Full ATK but lower skill). And both kinda do the exact same damage...where does the final damage actually come from?

Mix of the both. Simplified: damage = base atk (stats) * assault (from weapon skill/char atk eidos) * ele damage (from ele eidos, ele advantage, etc.)

So 40k attack (as shown for the KH in the edit window) with 0% assault will do the same damage as 20k attack with 100% assault. Both are important, but leveling your assault weapons is usually the fastest way to get stronger, since increasing the base stats usually takes some time (max broken event SSRs, accessories, +99s, etc).

Unregistered

05-24-2018, 03:10 PM

The attack stat you see listed for a character is just raw attack (weapon atk + 20% bonus for matching weapon type(s) + eidolon atk + 10% bonus for matching element)
It won't include the assault/character type bonuses from weapon skills. It won't include the element type bonuses from main eidolon/relic weapon.

Aidoru

05-24-2018, 03:41 PM

So I have max leveled (for current limit breaks) all my Eidolon and I've already got a full inventory of R enhance materials... Should I just sell them and keep the SR enhance? I discovered than leveling them doesn't stack exp gain additively.

The exp gain isn't worth leveling the enhance mats in regular scenarios but if you have nothing else to level and need some inventory space, then you do that over selling them unless you really need to the room. Don't bother break limiting them though as that'll use gems. Selling isn't worth it when you're only 10 gems per item unless you literally have no other options.

Don't forget you can always enhance kamihimes with weapons to level them if you have excess weapon mats and that items in your gift box can stay in there forever if located in the no expiration tab.

HugMeTender

05-24-2018, 03:43 PM

The exp gain isn't worth leveling the enhance mats in regular scenarios but if you have nothing else to level and need some inventory space, then you do that over selling them unless you really need to the room. Don't bother break limiting them though as that'll use gems. Selling isn't worth it when you're only 10 gems per item unless you literally have no other options.

Don't forget you can always enhance kamihimes with weapons to level them if you have excess weapon mats and that items in your gift box can stay in there forever if located in the no expiration tab.

Thanks! Yeah, I don't really have a problem enhancing weapons yet, I just don't have enough Eidolons worth keeping to level up lol.

Slashley

05-24-2018, 03:58 PM

So I have max leveled (for current limit breaks) all my Eidolon and I've already got a full inventory of R enhance materials... Should I just sell them and keep the SR enhance? I discovered than leveling them doesn't stack exp gain additively.Once you are at this point, I'd just sell everything. You'll easily be able to max any Eidolon you come across just from Gem Gacha alone now.

I really don't get it guys...how come an overall ATK 36k does around the same damage output as an overall ATK 45k? I mean I wanted to test out something on equipment about Weapon Skill (full skill but lower ATK) VS Overall ATK (Full ATK but lower skill). And both kinda do the exact same damage...where does the final damage actually come from?While you were given the short answer by others, I've made a damage calc for this. (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PhfOAQk6EyK5l33ux_C4T-cexVIQp6D-_Hbd-OO1OmQ/edit#gid=39423565)

HugMeTender

05-24-2018, 06:37 PM

Unregistered

05-24-2018, 06:56 PM

Skill leveling an SR assault in order to accomplish what you want to do in the near future is perfectly fine. How high should you go? Well, some would say 20, others would say lower. What it comes down to is this: you must understand that at some point in the future, an SR will get replaced by an SSR. How far off into the future that will be varies. So you're internally making guesstimates of how much you'll actually utilize this weapon until it's replacement time as well as weighing the value of the resources needed (both the fodder weapons themselves as well as your time).

Bear

05-24-2018, 07:11 PM

2 - Current Shamash is not one of those game-breaking OP units that will carry your team but she is very useful against boss that loves single target attacks or just DATAs a lot, as well as GO (high...

Unregistered

05-24-2018, 08:22 PM

This on DMM, Nutaku just decided on their own that burst effect things are a myth.

Cobblemaniac

05-24-2018, 08:24 PM

This on DMM, Nutaku just decided on their own that burst effect things are a myth.

Once again English versions of JP games get cucked...

HugMeTender

05-24-2018, 08:25 PM

Once againg English versions of JP games get cucked...We probably spend less on gacha so they don't see a need to cater :v

MagicSpice

05-24-2018, 08:54 PM

We probably spend less on gacha so they don't see a need to cater :v

that or they just throw content at whichever order like how they did Osawari Island

(until the DMM side shut down and the nutaku side still lives a year after)

Bear

05-24-2018, 10:28 PM

This on DMM, Nutaku just decided on their own that burst effect things are a myth.

Once again English versions of JP games get cucked...

For once this is actually not Nubtaco. The said buff/rebalance only just happened on DMM 2 months ago.

...... I did mention the "much later" part

Mraktar

05-24-2018, 11:12 PM

Here comes another wave of questions from the neediest person on this thread (will +rep accordingly xD)

1. I'm farming the light zone's sub quests to gain the mats to MLB the light SR in the shop. This will give me another assault weapon (which I figure is better than base SSR weapons). How high should I level up this weapon's skill? Or is leveling up SR skills taboo?

2. Shamash is interesting with her whole counter thing and dishes out HUGE damage compared to my other Hime when she does. Is she worthwhile? I don't see much on her in terms of the Light SSR hierarchy.

3. I now have 11 silver books. Thinking of maxing Diana since I'm using her in my current team and saving the other 6 for if I pull a "high-priority" Light SR.

4. Things have really slowed down after we hit about 160 ult. Any tips or tricks to progress other than "just be OP?"

5. How are you guys? :D

The only thing in zone mats shop worth mentioning is Vine - dark eydolon with -def debuff. If your main element is light then it will be easy to farm her to MLB. She will help you to get 50% debuff cap in many situations. Zone mats weapons/eydos have terrible stats comparing to disaster/event gacha sr so they even don't worth mentioning. Just get some HE with this mats, there nothing else usefull there. Try to do disaster raids lvl 50 every day if possible - disaster assault SR are good fillers for a long time. Unfortunately there is no water/light ultimate disaster for now.
Leveling up assault sr skill is not a taboo, but must have. Just pick the weapons that can be MLBed, like event/disaster assault ones and do SLV20. For example, i'm using 3xlvl85 disaster bows and some assault event sr in my wind party and trying to get them all to slvl20 because i don't have many SSR and i advice you to do the same. If you don't have good veapons from your main element - you may use some off-element SSR as placeholder. Assault SR is 13% bonus at lvl 20 and is twice cheaper then SSR.
About choosing who to MLB- Sol is 100% choice, event don't think. You need to select hime with good boost to 2-nd skill or awakenable hime. Awakened Sol is most stupid and degenerative idea of dev team ever, because it nerfes to abyss every non-Sol heal hime in the game. Osiris/Seth/Nike U - they are even not as near powerfull as Sol now. Atum is not so terrible, but do you know why? because she can revive Sol.

MagicSpice

05-24-2018, 11:24 PM

The only thing in zone mats shop worth mentioning is Vine - dark eydolon with -def debuff. If your main element is light then it will be easy to farm her to MLB. She will help you to get 50% debuff cap in many situations. Zone mats weapons/eydos have terrible stats comparing to disaster/event gacha sr so they even don't worth mentioning. Just get some HE with this mats, there nothing else usefull there. Try to do disaster raids lvl 50 every day if possible - disaster assault SR are good fillers for a long time. Unfortunately there is no water/light ultimate disaster for now.
Leveling up assault sr skill is not a taboo, but must have. Just pick the weapons that can be MLBed, like event/disaster assault ones and do SLV20. For example, i'm using 3xlvl85 disaster bows and some assault event sr in my wind party and trying to get them all to slvl20 because i don't have many SSR and i advice you to do the same. If you don't have good veapons from your main element - you may use some off-element SSR as placeholder. Assault SR is 13% bonus at lvl 20 and is twice cheaper then SSR.
About choosing who to MLB- Sol is 100% choice, event don't think. You need to select hime with good boost to 2-nd skill or awakenable hime. Awakened Sol is most stupid and degenerative idea of dev team ever, because it nerfes to abyss every non-Sol heal hime in the game. Osiris/Seth/Nike U - they are even not as near powerfull as Sol now. Atum is not so terrible, but do you know why? because she can revive Sol.

About awakening targets, gaia, svarog, and titania are what i hear about the most...

of course go after Sol ASAP cause she does rip the game a new one, but gaia (absurd defense), svarog (absurd support with decent damage), and titania (burst builds like her) aren't bad choices either.

also awakened thor is so-so, but if her enhanced stun sticks.... 30 seconds of free moves for everyone

and actually, I think Atum is the only means of reviving Souls.... Andromeda's skill can bring Sol back, but if the user dies.... Atum is the only saving grace

Ikki

05-24-2018, 11:28 PM

svarog (absurd support with decent damage)

Svarog is indeed a good awakening but please delete that.

Slashley

05-25-2018, 01:26 AM

I think all of these were already answered, but this one needs to be stressed.

--
1. I'm farming the light zone's sub quests to gain the mats to MLB the light SR in the shop. This will give me another assault weapon (which I figure is better than base SSR weapons). How high should I level up this weapon's skill? Or is leveling up SR skills taboo?
--No. Do NOT farm the "Caladbolg" from the Exchange Shop. For some retarded reason, all SR weapons from there have PITIFUL stats, and you'll be sorry if you farm those.

For the same amount of effort, you can probably farm two LMB Disaster Assault SRs. Yes, leveling them up is highly recommended. Skill level those up to... let's say 10 slvl each, and then start working your way up from there.
--
4. Things have really slowed down after we hit about 160 ult. Any tips or tricks to progress other than "just be OP?"
--Considering how new you are, I doubt you can hold a candle against even level 80 Ult. Do you mean total?

If you're at a total of 160 Ult, just keep at it. You're going at a fine pace. Final rewards are at 400 Ults. As long as people keep farming Grails and Ults, you'll reach the goal barely in time I think.

Cobblemaniac

05-25-2018, 01:40 AM

I think all of these were already answered, but this one needs to be stressed.
No. Do NOT farm the "Caladbolg" from the Exchange Shop. For some retarded reason, all SR weapons from there have PITIFUL stats, and you'll be sorry if you farm those.

For the same amount of effort, you can probably farm two LMB Disaster Assault SRs. Yes, leveling them up is highly recommended. Skill level those up to... let's say 10 slvl each, and then start working your way up from there.Considering how new you are, I doubt you can hold a candle against even level 80 Ult. Do you mean total?

If you're at a total of 160 Ult, just keep at it. You're going at a fine pace. Final rewards are at 400 Ults. As long as people keep farming Grails and Ults, you'll reach the goal barely in time I think.

I might as well shove in a question here in anticipation of the new competitive setting...

What's a good target for expert and ultimate clears in the coming union events? Or if I reverse the question, how many expert and ultimate clears are normal for average unions?

Ikki

05-25-2018, 01:45 AM

I might as well shove in a question here in anticipation of the new competitive setting...

What's a good target for expert and ultimate clears in the coming union events? Or if I reverse the question, how many expert and ultimate clears are normal for average unions?

that will depend on nutaku standards, and thats yet to be seen, just do your best and see how that goes, as long as you know how ranking works.

Slashley

05-25-2018, 02:13 AM

Yeah, we have no idea right now. And the first competitive Union event is Lust, so it won't give a good picture either, as you can't paratrain it. The numbers for the second competitive event will probably be on a whole different level.

Cobblemaniac

05-25-2018, 02:24 AM

Slashley

05-25-2018, 02:26 AM

I've been told that I'm doing it wrong, but I haven't recorded a video of doing it right yet. But this should give you a general idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0IVWDDgTDg

Cobblemaniac

05-25-2018, 02:37 AM

I've been told that I'm doing it wrong, but I haven't recorded a video of doing it right yet. But this should give you a general idea.
video

... Ah the paralyse lock. I don't think that's something I can pull off (no himes with paralyse lmao) even against non-Lust...

But doesn't this strategy bank on the server not lagging?

Slashley

05-25-2018, 04:08 AM

Paralyze train relies entirely upon having Awakened Thor. If you want to get serious in Union events, you'll need to Miracle Ticket her.

And yes, if the server lags, then tough shit for you. Though, you can compensate for that by coordinating with a friend.

BlazeAlter

05-25-2018, 06:08 AM

(probably a stupid question but I'll ask anyway)

Is a thunder team considered "good/average" already when they reach 50%atk/50%def debuff?

Cobblemaniac

05-25-2018, 06:25 AM

(probably a stupid question but I'll ask anyway)

Is a thunder team considered "good/average" already when they reach 50%atk/50%def debuff?

That kinda depends on your damage output. Considering thunder is basically a kill or get killed element (until the thicc nurse hime about a year later with literally all skills healing in some way), you'd better have at least some decent dps to complement the atk and def debuff...

BlazeAlter

05-25-2018, 06:36 AM

That kinda depends on your damage output. Considering thunder is basically a kill or get killed element (until the thicc nurse hime about a year later with literally all skills healing in some way), you'd better have at least some decent dps to complement the atk and def debuff...

well.. I do have Brahma, Nemesis and Astrea... and Cyclops and Krishna at the back..
I recently got Marduk the other day, and since I just completed my dark team's main roster a few days earlier, I'm actually considering investing the 3rd miracle ticket on either my thunder team by grabbing Mammon (which I thought would never happen) or water team
or I could go light and grab Sol :think: (even though my light team is a mess and I don't even have Diana or Light Tsuku)

would it be worth it going down this thunder path? I know this seems a bit early for a miracle ticket consultation but I'm rather curious on which team I should focus on next...

Cobblemaniac

05-25-2018, 06:51 AM

well.. I do have Brahma, Nemesis and Astrea... and Cyclops and Krishna at the back..
I recently got Marduk the other day, and since I just completed my dark team's main roster a few days earlier, I'm actually considering investing the 3rd miracle ticket on either my thunder team by grabbing Mammon (which I thought would never happen) or water team
or I could go light and grab Sol :think: (even though my light team is a mess and I don't even have Diana or Light Tsuku)

would it be worth it going down this thunder path? I know this seems a bit early for a miracle ticket consultation but I'm rather curious on which team I should focus on next...

Grab Sol or you have no soul, all hail the sun loli

Jokes aside... How are you hitting 50% def/atk down with your thunder team now? Marduk and Cyclops were the only ones with a debuff among the himes that you mentioned (and you stuck Cyclops behind), so I'm guessing you're going on a theoretical team of relic D'Art Marduk and Mammon?

I might be reiterating a joke for all I know, but a lot of people have been saying not to main thunder unless you have Kirin. In your case it's definitely not maining, but I do wonder if you have better elements to miracle ticket on before going thunder. Perhaps a screenshot/ table of your himes and notable eidolons?

BlazeAlter

05-25-2018, 07:03 AM

Grab Sol or you have no soul, all hail the sun loli

Jokes aside... How are you hitting 50% def/atk down with your thunder team now? Marduk and Cyclops were the only ones with a debuff among the himes that you mentioned (and you stuck Cyclops behind), so I'm guessing you're going on a theoretical team of relic D'Art Marduk and Mammon?

I might be reiterating a joke for all I know, but a lot of people have been saying not to main thunder unless you have Kirin. In your case it's definitely not maining, but I do wonder if you have better elements to miracle ticket on before going thunder. Perhaps a screenshot/ table of your himes and notable eidolons?

I would also hail the sun loli if I had her but Osiris forever reigns as queen in my heart lmao

I could really go for Sol though, since that'll make farming stuff for my dark team much easier but.. is Raphael a good start?

Light team members: [Lightspeed] Hermod, Uranus, SR Artemis, Uzume, Raphael, Dike (that's actually all I have, besides the common light Rs, I don't have any other SR/SSR light himes because this game doesn't give me more apparently)
Eido: St. Nicholas/Barong

And yes, for thunder I farmed for the HP relic weapon of D'art (LB1 atm) and if I grab Mammon for 3rd ticket, I could bring Black Propaganda as ex skill or something
It's ironic tbh because I never thought my thunder team could become decent enough that it's actually getting my attention lol

Thunder team members: Nemesis, Astrea, Brahma, Marduk, Krishna, Cyclops (I also have Ramiel and Baal but I'm removing them off the team)
Eido.. well we're about to get Amaru, but for now I have Huanglong
and in the future, I could also grab that Thicc nurse, and before her I could also settle for Greila

For water... I only have Cthulu as an SSR

Water team members: Kikuri-Hime, Triton, SR Nike, Cthulu, Oceanus, Cupid (I also have Enkidu but all she does is damage anyway)
Eido: Tiamat/Reiki/Jack Frost

meanwhile my fire and wind elements aren't worth investing in right now, since Fire only has Ares Awakened (I am hitting 40/40 at least, but I still don't think it's worth investing in right now) and wind only has Odin (I don't think I need to explain on this further)

Normally I would actually invest another miracle ticket for my dark team, and that's for Samael but she's not gonna be around here until December or something

Cobblemaniac

05-25-2018, 07:31 AM

I would also hail the sun loli if I had her but Osiris forever reigns as queen in my heart lmao

I could really go for Sol though, since that'll make farming stuff for my dark team much easier but.. is Raphael a good start?

Light team members: [Lightspeed] Hermod, Uranus, SR Artemis, Uzume, Raphael, Dike (that's actually all I have, besides the common light Rs, I don't have any other SR/SSR light himes because this game doesn't give me more apparently)
Eido: St. Nicholas/Barong

And yes, for thunder I farmed for the HP relic weapon of D'art (LB1 atm) and if I grab Mammon for 3rd ticket, I could bring Black Propaganda as ex skill or something
It's ironic tbh because I never thought my thunder team could become decent enough that it's actually getting my attention lol

Thunder team members: Nemesis, Astrea, Brahma, Marduk, Krishna, Cyclops (I also have Ramiel and Baal but I'm removing them off the team)
Eido.. well we're about to get Amaru, but for now I have Huanglong
and in the future, I could also grab that Thicc nurse, and before her I could also settle for Greila

For water... I only have Cthulu as an SSR

Water team members: Kikuri-Hime, Triton, SR Nike, Cthulu, Oceanus, Cupid (I also have Enkidu but all she does is damage anyway)
Eido: Tiamat/Reiki/Jack Frost

meanwhile my fire and wind elements aren't worth investing in right now, since Fire only has Ares Awakened (I am hitting 40/40 at least, but I still don't think it's worth investing in right now) and wind only has Odin (I don't think I need to explain on this further)

Normally I would actually invest another miracle ticket for my dark team, and that's for Samael but she's not gonna be around here until December or something

Your light team is a train wreck... If you're getting Sol it won't be to get a light team in the short term. Raphy... unfortunately just doesn't cut it, even though she's conceptually my second favourite hime under Sol. One could run the argument that sniper shot Raphy Sol Dike and a Vine sub does actually give 50% atk/ 45% def down, but honestly I'd refrain.

Right now it's probably a tie between your water and thunder team for which one is getting miracled (or Sol). I'm kinda biased towards water considering I like playing games of attrition for no apparent reason, but it's a waiting game at this point, you might pull something from either element that makes it more worth than the other. Snow Raphy for water (seriously, double orb removal with Cthulhu is OP) or Mammon with thunder.

BlazeAlter

05-25-2018, 07:40 AM

Your light team is a train wreck... If you're getting Sol it won't be to get a light team in the short term. Raphy... unfortunately just doesn't cut it, even though she's conceptually my second favourite hime under Sol. One could run the argument that sniper shot Raphy Sol Dike and a Vine sub does actually give 50% atk/ 45% def down, but honestly I'd refrain.

Right now it's probably a tie between your water and thunder team for which one is getting miracled (or Sol). I'm kinda biased towards water considering I like playing games of attrition for no apparent reason, but it's a waiting game at this point, you might pull something from either element that makes it more worth than the other. Snow Raphy for water (seriously, double orb removal with Cthulhu is OP) or Mammon with thunder.

Yeah I can agree with you on that, and she was my 2nd SSR as well (and I've gotten 2 dupes of her :l ) so.. it kinda makes me sad that she's not that good. she's really one of those himes that needs an awakening imo..

Right now I have 9k jewels left, and I have no idea when I'm gonna spend this again.. if I ever do decide to spend it soon there is a possibility I could get somebody new (maybe I might roll again during Mammon's release if I have saved enough)
For now, thunder is winning my attention, but that could change if I ever decide to spend my jewel load again soon. Hmm, guess I'll wait for now and come back again later when the time is right..

Slashley

05-25-2018, 08:18 AM

or I could go light and grab Sol :think:--Note that if you're thinking about paying for KH, the current Exclusive gacha is the second-best offer you'll ever get for Sol.
Just be prepared for the fact that you might need to pay considerably more than the average cost, as it is not guaranteed gacha.
--
I might be reiterating a joke for all I know, but a lot of people have been saying not to main thunder unless you have Kirin.--Thunder has come a long way now, finally. With Amaru (SOON, no more Phoenix!!), Dartagnan's Relic weapon (to cover debuffs) and Mammon, Thunder will finally be in a good spot.

That said, Thunder has some issues still. Generally bad SRs (even worse for us since Noel is not a thing) and no healers. As such, Thunder is not really a thing unless you're Thunder SSR haven.
Water team members: Kikuri-Hime, Triton, SR Nike, Cthulu, Oceanus, Cupid (I also have Enkidu but all she does is damage anyway)I don't think you've reached critical mass with any element to properly commit yet. But Water is your best bet, with Cthulhu and Triton. I'd say keep investing all around and keep all doors open, there will be plenty of Jewels before the next Miracle Ticket. Who knows, maybe you'll pull a core Hime.

Laventale

05-25-2018, 08:26 AM

Unregistered

05-25-2018, 08:59 AM

I just completed my dark team's main roster a few days earlier, I'm actually considering investing the 3rd miracle ticket on either my thunder team by grabbing Mammon (which I thought would never happen) or water team
or I could go light and grab Sol :think: (even though my light team is a mess and I don't even have Diana or Light Tsuku)

would it be worth it going down this thunder path? I know this seems a bit early for a miracle ticket consultation but I'm rather curious on which team I should focus on next...

How does your main dark roster look like?

I would actually get Light Tsuku instead of Sol, if you get Diana/SSR Artemis (I think she will come after the Miracle Ticket is released) before Miracle Ticket.
If you need Heal, just use Andromeda until you get Sol...

On the other hand Fire Tower will come out at the end of the year. Therefore it wouldn't hurt to get a SSR Water Hime.
The good thing about water is that it's very versatile and you can reach def cap very easy with one core Hime already e.g. Ryu-Oh+Snipper+Atlante (C-frame 12% down)
You already have Cthullu. Now I would try to get Ryu-Oh, Asherah and Snow Raphael...

[SIZE=1]Normally I would actually invest another miracle ticket for my dark team, and that's for Samael but she's not gonna be around here until December or something

Why Samael?
I mean she is nice but her def down won't stuck with Satan AW. I would actually get Berith or Chernobog instead of her.
Debuffers are nice but Satan AW+Snipper is enough. Would try to get a damage dealer instead of more Debuffer.
If you don't have Satan AW then yes she is a nice replace. Otherwise go with Satan AW.

BlazeAlter

05-25-2018, 09:10 AM

Note that if you're thinking about paying for KH, the current Exclusive gacha is the second-best offer you'll ever get for Sol.
Just be prepared for the fact that you might need to pay considerably more than the average cost, as it is not guaranteed gacha.Thunder has come a long way now, finally. With Amaru (SOON, no more Phoenix!!), Dartagnan's Relic weapon (to cover debuffs) and Mammon, Thunder will finally be in a good spot.

That said, Thunder has some issues still. Generally bad SRs (even worse for us since Noel is not a thing) and no healers. As such, Thunder is not really a thing unless you're Thunder SSR haven.I don't think you've reached critical mass with any element to properly commit yet. But Water is your best bet, with Cthulhu and Triton. I'd say keep investing all around and keep all doors open, there will be plenty of Jewels before the next Miracle Ticket. Who knows, maybe you'll pull a core Hime.

Yeah I don't really pay for anything else besides miracle tickets and guaranteed gachas, so I think I'll pass on the Sol exclusive gacha
Well that being said... I guess I'll try pulling around Mammon's release and see if I can get anyone good. If I get a water core, then I'll most likely go water, or Mammon if she decides to join me

Another reason why I'm considering investing in thunder is because surprisingly I have a good/decent grid for it (only 4 SRs left.. probably gonna be 3 soon after Amaru)

How does your main dark roster look like?

I would actually get Light Tsuku instead of Sol, if you get Diana/SSR Artemis (I think she will come after the Miracle Ticket is released) before Miracle Ticket.
If you need Heal, just use Andromeda until you get Sol...

On the other hand Fire Tower will come out at the end of the year. Therefore it wouldn't hurt to get a SSR Water Hime.
The good thing about water is that it's very versatile and you can reach def cap very easy with one core Hime already e.g. Ryu-Oh+Snipper+Atlante (C-frame 12% down)
You already have Cthullu. Now I would try to get Ryu-Oh, Asherah and Snow Raphael...

Why Samael?
I mean she is nice but her def down won't stuck with Satan AW. I would actually get Berith or Chernobog instead of her.
Debuffers are nice but Satan AW+Snipper is enough. Would try to get a damage dealer instead of more Debuffer.
If you don't have Satan AW then yes she is a nice replace. Otherwise go with Satan AW.
This is already perfect for me at the moment
10176
(Bastet and Rangda at the back)
I dunno, I never wanted Satan AW, especially after that sweet Amon Unleashed buff in the future. I'd rather wait for that (but if she joins me for free then I don't mind placing her in at fights where she can do better than Amon)
and why Samael? She doesn't apply a def down, but a Dark RST down that's much higher than Satan AW (25% if i recall correctly), plus she has a debuff nuke like yamaraja's... is that not a good thing?

and I think SSR artemis will be around at 4th miracle ticket... though I'm not sure if I'll roll for her. If only this game gave me Diana for free I wouldn't mind grabbing Sol honestly..

about water:
yeah I've considered those options as well, If I did decide to go for water, I dunno who to choose cuz there's too many options. and since we've got a lot of good water events, their grid is also good (not maxed, but that can be fixed quickly if I decided to focus on this element next)

Slashley

05-25-2018, 09:18 AM

... you have like three Dark cores, and Pluto is plenty decent. Is there any reason you don't want to main Dark?

BlazeAlter

05-25-2018, 09:21 AM

... you have like three Dark cores, and Pluto is plenty decent. Is there any reason you don't want to main Dark?

wait what
Dark is my main lol. It's just... I completed it for now, and maxed the grid and all that stuff. I don't think there's anyone I want to add in there right now until a few months later..

I'm just asking for some opinions on which element I should focus on improving next, since I don't know which path I should take

AutoCrimson

05-25-2018, 09:22 AM

Osiris is good, but naming her as dark core... with our current content, she is on par with Pluto, i guess

Unregistered

05-25-2018, 09:24 AM

Yeah I don't really pay for anything else besides miracle tickets and guaranteed gachas, so I think I'll pass on the Sol exclusive gacha
Well that being said... I guess I'll try pulling around Mammon's release and see if I can get anyone good. If I get a water core, then I'll most likely go water, or Mammon if she decides to join me

This is already perfect for me at the moment
10176
(Bastet and Rangda at the back)
I dunno, I never wanted Satan AW, especially after that sweet Amon Unleashed buff in the future. I'd rather wait for that (but if she joins me for free then I don't mind placing her in at fights where she can do better than Amon)
and why Samael? She doesn't apply a def down, but a Dark RST down that's much higher than Satan AW (25% if i recall correctly), plus she has a debuff nuke like yamaraja's... is that not a good thing?

and I think SSR artemis will be around at 4th miracle ticket... though I'm not sure if I'll roll for her. If only this game gave me Diana for free I wouldn't mind grabbing Sol honestly..

about water:
yeah I've considered those options as well, If I did decide to go for water, I dunno who to choose cuz there's too many options. and since we've got a lot of good water events, their grid is also good (not maxed, but that can be fixed quickly if I decided to focus on this element next)

Your team isn't bad.
I would replace Amon with Satan AW and Hades with Berith or Chernobog.
Why Satan AW and not Samael? Satan AW just has the better skills and there is a synergy between her, Pluto and Osiris...
Her skills are a lot shorter and do more damage. Her DATA-rate is good. You will burst faster with Satan AW or even with Thanatos than Samael.
Personally I wouldn't use a Miracle Ticket for Samael. But if you get her with jewel gatcha and don't have Satan, then use her.
Otherwise not really.

Yeah sorry. I actually meant Dark RST down. Satan AW has -10% Dark RST down + 15% A-Frame def down.
Samael dark RST down is higher but her CD is longer...
Satan AW:
Abi 1: Def down A-Frame 15%+Dark RST down 10% CD: 6T
Abi 2: Energy drain CD: 6T
Abi 3: Orb eating + 15 Burst gauge up CD: 6T

Furthermore Samael's Dark RST down last 120sec and has CD of 8T. No Burst gauge up.
In my opinion Satan AW and Pluto will save your ass most of the time.
Satan AW also has Burst Gauge up and there is a synergy with Osiris.

And if you really main Dark then replace Hades later with Berith of Chernobog.
If you really need Attack down then use Jeanne.

That's my opinion so far but you can also ask Bear about it.

BlazeAlter

05-25-2018, 09:34 AM

Your team isn't bad.
I would replace Amon with Satan AW and Hades with Berith or Chernobog.
Why Satan AW and not Samael? Satan AW just has the better skills and there is a synergy between her, Pluto and Osiris...
Her skills are a lot shorter and do more damage. Her DATA-rate is good. You will burst faster with Satan AW or even with Thanatos than Samael.
Personally I wouldn't use a Miracle Ticket for Samael. But if you get her with jewel gatcha and don't have Satan, then use her.
Otherwise not really.

Yeah sorry. I actually meant Dark RST down. Satan AW has -10% Dark RST down + 15% A-Frame def down.
Samael dark RST down is higher but her CD is longer...
Satan AW:
Abi 1: Def down A-Frame 15%+Dark RST down 10% CD: 6T
Abi 2: Energy drain CD: 6T
Abi 3: Orb eating + 15 Burst gauge up CD: 6T

Furthermore Samael's Dark RST down last 120sec and has CD of 8T. No Burst gauge up.
In my opinion Satan AW and Pluto will save your ass most of the time.
Satan AW also has Burst Gauge up and there is a synergy with Osiris.

And if you really main Dark then replace Hades later with Berith of Chernobog.
If you really need Attack down then use Jeanne.

That's my opinion so far but you can also ask Bear about it.

Hmm, Why replace Hades though? I actually think her awakening is good but if your main point is to replace her with those ones you said so I can deal more damage then I can see you mean... and the fact that her atk down gets an added combo atk rate debuff and turns AoE seems good to me (unless im wrong, feel free to correct me since whenever I read the jp wiki I just rely on google translate)

I understand what Chernobog does, but she seems to make it hard to pull off a full burst so I'm not really a fan of her right now (and besides, I don't think she'll be out on 3rd miracle ticket, which is what I'm asking for right now, and neither Cherno nor Berith will be out during 3rd ticket)
And Berith... blame google translate, I actually don't understand what she does :neutral:

Well.. if I can get Satan for free, then I wouldn't mind awakening her and replacing Amon with her but until then all I can do is wait and see (I'm one of those guys that miracle'd Amon and this is why I'm reluctant to miracle another dark hime just to replace someone else I miracle'd previously and I wouldn't want to place her in the sub spot)

I can see your point with Samael though, the CDs are really long.. though that was just a plan for the 5th miracle ticket, not actually sure if I'll use it on her because who knows, another team of mine could need that ticket

Slashley

05-25-2018, 09:41 AM

Osiris is good, but naming her as dark core... with our current content, she is on par with Pluto, i guessHeals are heals, and more importantly, she's all you need to make use of Shingen while still keeping the EX slot open.
And Berith... blame google translate, I actually don't understand what she does :neutral:And that's exactly why the encyclopedia in Sanahtlig's toolbox (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PhfOAQk6EyK5l33ux_C4T-cexVIQp6D-_Hbd-OO1OmQ/edit#gid=1090858479) exists. So that you wouldn't need to use google translate and go ???

BlazeAlter

05-25-2018, 09:47 AM

Heals are heals, and more importantly, she's all you need to make use of Shingen while still keeping the EX slot open.And that's exactly why the encyclopedia in Sanahtlig's toolbox (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PhfOAQk6EyK5l33ux_C4T-cexVIQp6D-_Hbd-OO1OmQ/edit#gid=1090858479) exists. So that you wouldn't need to use google translate and go ???

ah right, sorry

Well okay, I understand what she does now, self stacking buffs are always nice...
and seeing her other abilities, she'd probably dish out some great damage, though that release date... I don't think I need to worry about her for now since I'm asking for opinions on 3rd ticket and I'm sure she'd be on the 5th or something

Unregistered

05-25-2018, 09:56 AM

Hmm, Why replace Hades though? I actually think her awakening is good but if your main point is to replace her with those ones you said so I can deal more damage then I can see you mean... and the fact that her atk down gets an added combo atk rate debuff and turns AoE seems good to me (unless im wrong, feel free to correct me since whenever I read the jp wiki I just rely on google translate)

I understand what Chernobog does, but she seems to make it hard to pull off a full burst so I'm not really a fan of her right now (and besides, I don't think she'll be out on 3rd miracle ticket, which is what I'm asking for right now, and neither Cherno nor Berith will be out during 3rd ticket)
And Berith... blame google translate, I actually don't understand what she does :neutral:

Well.. if I can get Satan for free, then I wouldn't mind awakening her and replacing Amon with her but until then all I can do is wait and see (I'm one of those guys that miracle'd Amon and this is why I'm reluctant to miracle another dark hime just to replace someone else I miracle'd previously and I wouldn't want to place her in the sub spot)

I can see your point with Samael though, the CDs are really long.. though that was just a plan for the 5th miracle ticket, not actually sure if I'll use it on her because who knows, another team of mine could need that ticket

Well, we already talked about it in discord...

Please don't resent me for what I am going to say now.

Hades is a good dark Hime to start with but later she isn't that good.
Her AW isn't worth. Combo Attack down isn't worth, seriously. I wouldn't Awaken her unsless I have a good amount of Draconic Eyes.

She is one of those victims of not so great AW. You'll probably want her for her Blind, 20% Atk Down A, Def up L and Debuff Block, but her usefulness is limited not only due to being very situational but also long CD on everything.

Chernobog will do way more damage then Hades AW.
Yeah, Chernobog is a bit Tricky. However she has a skill that offers 30 Burst Gauge up every 5T and if you use her "One-Man-Army"-Skill: +150% Atk, +100% Def, +50% Crit Rate & Dmg, and 500/T regen --> you will need 15 Burst Gauge every turn. This skill last as long as you can't offer 15 Burst gauge anymore.
Her 2nd Abi offers Single Target Dmg + Self DATA up (Strong).

Basically (without DA & TA)
Turn 1: Abi1 --> 30 Burst Gauge up and "One-Man-Army"-Skill + 10 Burst Gauge for a Hit = 40
after Turn 1: -15 Burst Gauge = 25
Turn 2: 10 Burst Gauge for a Hit = 35
after Turn 2: -15 Burst Gauge = 20
Turn 3: 10 Burst Gauge for a Hit = 30
after Turn 3: -15 Burst Gauge = 15
Turn 4: 10 Burst Gauge for a Hit = 25
after Turn 4: -15 Burst Gauge = 10
Turn 5: Abi1 --> 30 Burst Gauge up +10 Burst Gauge for a Hit =50

Burst will be a little bit of a problem but seriously she has a skill that offers her DA & TA. Last 3T and CD is 5T long.
Furthermore she will be in your last Slot because of Burst.

Therefore you could at least try to save your jews for Chernobog because with her also Anubis will be released.

It's your choice if you want Samael or Satan AW. I wouldn't use my Miracle Ticket for her but for Satan. With her AW she will be awesome and is a core Hime for Dark. Otherwise Thanatos is also a great choice. She offers C-Frame and Burst Gauge up.
Satan AW >> Thanatos >> Samael.

Berith is a bit like Shamash but does more damage.

BlazeAlter

05-25-2018, 10:07 AM

Well, we already talked about it in discord...

Please don't resent me for what I am going to say now.

Hades is a good dark Hime to start with but later she isn't that good.
Her AW isn't worth. Combo Attack down isn't worth, seriously. I wouldn't Awaken her unsless I have a good amount of Draconic Eyes.

She is one of those victims of not so great AW. You'll probably want her for her Blind, 20% Atk Down A, Def up L and Debuff Block, but her usefulness is limited not only due to being very situational but also long CD on everything.

Chernobog will do way more damage then Hades AW.
Yeah, Chernobog is a bit Tricky. However she has a skill that offers 30 Burst Gauge up every 5T and if you use her "One-Man-Army"-Skill: +150% Atk, +100% Def, +50% Crit Rate & Dmg, and 500/T regen --> you will need 15 Burst Gauge every turn. This skill last as long as you can't offer 15 Burst gauge anymore.
Her 2nd Abi offers Single Target Dmg + Self DATA up (Strong).

Basically (without DA & TA)
Turn 1: Abi1 --> 30 Burst Gauge up and "One-Man-Army"-Skill + 10 Burst Gauge for a Hit = 40
after Turn 1: -15 Burst Gauge = 25
Turn 2: 10 Burst Gauge for a Hit = 35
after Turn 2: -15 Burst Gauge = 20
Turn 3: 10 Burst Gauge for a Hit = 30
after Turn 3: -15 Burst Gauge = 15
Turn 4: 10 Burst Gauge for a Hit = 25
after Turn 4: -15 Burst Gauge = 10
Turn 5: Abi1 --> 30 Burst Gauge up +10 Burst Gauge for a Hit =50

Burst will be a little bit of a problem but seriously she has a skill that offers her DA & TA. Last 3T and CD is 5T long.
Furthermore she will be in your last Slot because of Burst.

Therefore you could at least try to save your jews for Chernobog because with her also Anubis will be released.

It's your choice if you want Samael or Satan AW. I wouldn't use my Miracle Ticket for her but for Satan. With her AW she will be awesome and is a core Hime for Dark. Otherwise Thanatos is also a great choice. She offers C-Frame and Burst Gauge up.
Satan AW >> Thanatos >> Samael.

Berith is a bit like Shamash but does more damage.

It's alright, I'm open to opinions.. but like I said for now, my dark team is complete already until a few months later when those ones you said will be released

I'm still gonna awaken her though since I do have 6 eyes and she's my first SSR that carried me mostly through my newbie days, so she holds a special place for me (lol)

And I can see why Chernobog is indeed great... is she worth a miracle ticket then? Or Berith
I know I can save jewels but from time to time RNG can be cruel to people so I never keep my expectations very high when rolling jewel gacha
and most obvious choice would be to go for the one with lower CD, but I'll think about it if I ever decide to get Satan AW. for now its not really a problem

I don't think I can consider Thanatos though, especially after that Amon Unleashed buff (edited) where her only long CD is the stun extension.. If I were to consider someone it would most likely be Satan AW

Unregistered

05-25-2018, 10:28 AM

It's alright, I'm open to opinions.. but like I said for now, my dark team is complete already until a few months later when those ones you said will be released

I'm still gonna awaken her though since I do have 6 eyes and she's my first SSR that carried me mostly through my newbie days, so she holds a special place for me (lol)

And I can see why Chernobog is indeed great... is she worth a miracle ticket then? Or Berith
I know I can save jewels but from time to time RNG can be cruel to people so I never keep my expectations very high when rolling jewel gacha
and most obvious choice would be to go for the one with lower CD, but I'll think about it if I ever decide to get Satan AW. for now its not really a problem

I don't think I can consider Thanatos though, especially after that Amon Unleashed Awakening where her only long CD is the stun extension.. If I were to consider someone it would most likely be Satan AW

IMO they both are worth a Miracle Ticket. But it's your choice which one you choose.
Chernobog is basically a One-Man-Army... Thunder also has got a One-Man-Army SSR Himes this week.
A strong dark Build with a lot of synergy and good damage, will include:
- Satan AW --> fast bursting Hime
- Pluto --> High DATA if she has blocks
- Osiris --> Party Burst Gauge
- Chernobog --> One-Man-Army!

EX-skill: Snipper

I don't think I need to mention why there is a lot of synergy there. (If you don't understand it, tell me)
Hopefully Osiris gets an awakening... she needs more party burst gauge up.
Amon is not bad anymore. Still one of her skill has a long CD and if you get your hands on Satan.
Please use her! She has -10% Dark RST down, burst Gauge increase for herself and she is a Orb eater.
There is way more synergy with Satan AW+Pluto+Osiris than with Amon.

I can understand why you don't want to replace Amon.
However it's you choice which one you use but you already have 2 Himes from this team. Satan AW+Chernobog will make your dark team really good.
You still can use Amon next year when her A-Frame becomes C-Frame and you need to run BP for a defensive build...

I never said that you will just use this team. For some contents BP might be needed but if you have a good grid and do enough damage, not that often.

Slashley

05-25-2018, 10:41 AM

--
Her AW isn't worth. Combo Attack down isn't worth, seriously.--Yeah, it's just the best defensive debuff in the game, what's the big deal.
... oh wait.

Seriously, having replaced Triton with Cthulhu, I cry every single day in AQ4. It's a whole different game with or without combo-. I can't bloody wait for Mordred's Relic weapons just so that I get access to that combo- on the burst ability, at least the bosses won't smack the shit out of me whenever they feel like it.

Unregistered

05-25-2018, 10:53 AM

Yeah, it's just the best defensive debuff in the game, what's the big deal.
... oh wait.

Seriously, having replaced Triton with Cthulhu, I cry every single day in AQ4. It's a whole different game with or without combo-. I can't bloody wait for Mordred's Relic weapons just so that I get access to that combo- on the burst ability, at least the bosses won't smack the shit out of me whenever they feel like it.

Dude, it's still not worth... We already talked about it in discord. It's a nice tingh to have but not worth the damage that Chernobog will do!
Just run with ele-advantage and Chernobog will do enough damage.

Why do you even need that skill?
Pluto+Jeanne = 2 Damage cut skill and attack down. If you still die, then get more HP.

I am doing it fine without that skill.

BlazeAlter

05-25-2018, 11:25 AM

IMO they both are worth a Miracle Ticket. But it's your choice which one you choose.
Chernobog is basically a One-Man-Army... Thunder also has got a One-Man-Army SSR Himes this week.
A strong dark Build with a lot of synergy and good damage, will include:
- Satan AW --> fast bursting Hime
- Pluto --> High DATA if she has blocks
- Osiris --> Party Burst Gauge
- Chernobog --> One-Man-Army!

EX-skill: Snipper

I don't think I need to mention why there is a lot of synergy there. (If you don't understand it, tell me)
Hopefully Osiris gets an awakening... she needs more party burst gauge up.
Amon is not bad anymore. Still one of her skill has a long CD and if you get your hands on Satan.
Please use her! She has -10% Dark RST down, burst Gauge increase for herself and she is a Orb eater.
There is way more synergy with Satan AW+Pluto+Osiris than with Amon.

I can understand why you don't want to replace Amon.
However it's you choice which one you use but you already have 2 Himes from this team. Satan AW+Chernobog will make your dark team really good.
You still can use Amon next year when her A-Frame becomes C-Frame and you need to run BP for a defensive build...

I never said that you will just use this team. For some contents BP might be needed but if you have a good grid and do enough damage, not that often.

yeah, Amon is really good in the future, but considering that's a year later, its gonna suck waiting for awhile... her raging nuke got turned to 6CD and has a higher multiplier now I believe? the only thing that didnt get reduced CD is her stun extension (which i can understand why, but gets an added light atk down which is great)

I'm just gonna hope that maybe jewel draw or some random ticket would win me satan for free, but I don't think I can consider her for 3rd ticket right now.. but thanks for your opinions though, I appreciate it. Will definitely keep in mind

Yeah, it's just the best defensive debuff in the game, what's the big deal.
... oh wait.

Seriously, having replaced Triton with Cthulhu, I cry every single day in AQ4. It's a whole different game with or without combo-. I can't bloody wait for Mordred's Relic weapons just so that I get access to that combo- on the burst ability, at least the bosses won't smack the shit out of me whenever they feel like it.

I can understand how you feel.. its why I bring Azathoth as support always just so I can use her combo atk rate debuff in AQ4, especially against wind and fire mobs which are a pain in the ass to deal with (and why I can't wait for hades to be awakened)

Well it kinda went a little off topic since I was only originally asking for my 3rd miracle ticket choice if its either going to Thunder, Water or Light (still leaning a bit towards Thunder, but I guess I can 100% decide it after Mammon gets released and I try rolling for her.. If I don't get anyone new, then I guess 3rd ticket will most likely be Thunder since it has 50/50 debuff, while water is only 25/50 unless I get SSR Nike lol)

Slashley

05-25-2018, 11:25 AM

Why do you even need that skill?
Pluto+Jeanne = 2 Damage cut skill and attack down. If you still die, then get more HP.So, you're going to use damage cuts every single turn just in case enemies would happen to use dbl/trpl on you? I doubt that. You won't even have enough damage cuts.

Your biggest job is to ensure greatest chance of success. Reliability is a big key to this. Combo- will entirely remove a very large portion of RNG from fights. If you're relying on Chemobog, then what will you do when turn1 of the fight is triple attack against Chemobog and turn2 will be another triple attack, killing her?

Is that going to happen often? No. But it CAN happen, which means that according to Murphy's Law, it will happen. As such, I don't approve of saying "combo- is not worth." Does that mean that the build you suggest can't work? No. Does that mean that bringing combo- into every single fight is a must? No. All I'm saying is, don't say that combo- isn't "worth" something. Because it absolutely is. It always is worth, as combo- is bloody amazing.
I am doing it fine without that skill."Doing fine" is possible even with full Rs, as it is a completely loose term. So that's hardly an argument.

Unregistered

05-25-2018, 11:50 AM

So, you're going to use damage cuts every single turn just in case enemies would happen to use dbl/trpl on you? I doubt that. You won't even have enough damage cuts.

Your biggest job is to ensure greatest chance of success. Reliability is a big key to this. Combo- will entirely remove a very large portion of RNG from fights. If you're relying on Chemobog, then what will you do when turn1 of the fight is triple attack against Chemobog and turn2 will be another triple attack, killing her?

Is that going to happen often? No. But it CAN happen, which means that according to Murphy's Law, it will happen. As such, I don't approve of saying "combo- is not worth." Does that mean that the build you suggest can't work? No. Does that mean that bringing combo- into every single fight is a must? No. All I'm saying is, don't say that combo- isn't "worth" something. Because it absolutely is. It always is worth, as combo- is bloody amazing."Doing fine" is possible even with full Rs, as it is a completely loose term. So that's hardly an argument.

Awesome... Do you want to use Hades in a "offensive"-build?
A "offensive"-build exist for doing more damage to kill the boss as fast as possible and not to play "save" & "slow".
I am open for every builds but I don't see Hades in a offensive build or in a defensive build for most of the contents.

I can consider to use Hades in a "defensive" build. But still I wouldn't relay on combo-rate down and it's not an amazing debuff. It's okay and situational... There we go... Hades = Situational!
Maybe in some situation but not really for AQ4, if you run with element advantage.

Killing Chernobog in 2T? Dude... Pluto has a skill that offers 20% party Light RST for 2T, use Tiamat's barrier (if you can ofc), Osiris for a bit healing and regen from Jeanne... Not gonna happening, unless she has under 8k HP.
Chernobog gets in every T 500HP..

HugMeTender

05-25-2018, 12:16 PM

Bear

05-25-2018, 12:26 PM

Killing Chernobog in 2T?

Uhhhh..... Not trying to take any side here but just saying it's pretty hard to kill Cherno-mode. Not even Dysnomia can kill her without landing at least 3 of her 4 random hit nuke.

Ikki

05-25-2018, 01:06 PM

Unregistered

05-25-2018, 01:34 PM

Sora

05-25-2018, 01:45 PM

I finally hit 500 Soul P. I've gotten a lot of advice to get Joan in the past for my water team. Does that still hold true for a light team? She seems to have a good kit. It would be nice to replace Athena from my team as well since she isn't as useful against non-water mobs.

Edit: Siegfried is the only other Legendary I have the option to unlock.

If you run Elemental Advantage then you should use Athena. She is a nice tank.

Well, I can't say which Soul you should use or unluck next... What Hime does your water and light team have?
Which Soul you should use will depend what your Himes can cover.

Don't get Siegfried unless she and Solomon are your last Souls.

Unregistered

05-25-2018, 01:50 PM

Regarding Samael:
You pick her up if you're a big Kitamura Eri fan, as she voices her in the all ages version.

Ryuuji x Ami

05-25-2018, 01:52 PM

Regarding Samael:
You pick her up if you're a big Kitamura Eri fan, as she voices her in the all ages version.

I just say TORADORA!!!! Ami <3

HugMeTender

05-25-2018, 01:53 PM

Sora

05-25-2018, 01:58 PM

To clarify first, Joan and Siegfried are the only 2 Legandary I have available right now.

My water team is currently: Cthulhu, Nike (or Sol), Belphy, and Oceanus.

My Light team is currently: Athena, Shamash, Diana, and Sol.

I'm thinking of replacing Athena with Artemis if Joan is an acceptable Defender replacement for Athena on my Light team.

Mordred + Snipper Shot as a ex-skill for Light.
For Light you have a Healer and Diana... = you will cover 35 def down, 20 attack down, Black Propaganda (BP) and healing.

For Water: You could run Jeanne with Snipper or Modred but with Mordred you can use Black Propaganda and could run Snipper Shot as a ex-skill.
Water you have Cthullu (C-frame 20% def down) and Nike as healer (SSR or SR Version?).
You will cover = 40 def down, 20 attack down, BP and some healing with Mordred.
With Jeanne= 40 def down, 40 Attack down and some healing.

They are only avaible because you didn't unlock the Standard or Expert Soul which will unlock a Legendary....

HugMeTender

05-25-2018, 02:02 PM

Mordred + Snipper Shot...
For Light you have a Healer and Diana...
Water you have Cthullu and Nike (SSR or SR Version)

They are only avaible because you didn't unlock the Standard or Expert Soul which will unlock a Legendary....

I know why they're not available.
I just wanted to clarify that if I spend the necessary Soul P to build up to the other Legendary it'll be a while until I get back to 500. Wasn't sure if getting a decent Legendary ASAP was important or if I could stick around with Elite.

Edit: Since getting Snipper shot means unlocking 2 Legendary Souls, it'll be that much longer.

Sora

05-25-2018, 02:08 PM

I know why they're not available.
I just wanted to clarify that if I spend the necessary Soul P to build up to the other Legendary it'll be a while until I get back to 500. Wasn't sure if getting a decent Legendary ASAP was important or if I could stick around with Elite.

Normally you should unlock Mordred > D'Art > Jeanne
If you have a Hime which offers BP then Jeanne > D'Art > Mordred
If you have a Hime with B-Frame def down then Mordred > Jeanne > D'Art.

You will need those ex-skills also for your other teams, if they don't cover anything... Therefore those 3 at first.

Don't forget to get Gawain because of her ex-skill "Ambush" which offers 20 def down A-Frame.

HugMeTender

05-25-2018, 02:10 PM

Normally you should unlock Mordred > D'Art > Jeanne
If you have a Hime which offers BP then Jeanne > D'Art > Mordred
If you have a Hime with B-Frame def down then Mordred > Jeanne > D'Art.

Don't forget to get Gawain because of her ex-skill "Ambush" which offers 20 def down A-Frame.

Also, who's Jeanne? I don't see her in my unlocked or locked list. Not even the Holy list.

Also, I've got Satan so that would cover the BP right? (I assume that means Burst Points or something? lol)

Sora

05-25-2018, 02:12 PM

Also, who's Jeanne? I don't see her in my unlocked or locked list. Not even the Holy list.

http://kamihime-project.wikia.com/wiki/Joan_of_Arc
She is Jeanne D'Arc basically.

Also, who's Jeanne? I don't see her in my unlocked or locked list. Not even the Holy list.

Also, I've got Satan so that would cover the BP right? (I assume that means Burst Points or something? lol)

Satan dosen't cover BP... IIRC the only himes who cover BP are Ryu-Oh (Water) and Dark Amaterasu (Dark and limited)
Satan is an orb eater... it's really good, but at the beginning you'll still need BP. Later with a better grid and very good Himes you won't need it that often.

HugMeTender

05-25-2018, 03:07 PM

So my jewel pull gave me my third Takemikazuchi (so 2 stars now) which I guess is good??

Not particularly blown away by her stats considering my Aqua Dragoon has 300 more attack 18 levels lower. But I suppose having that multi-element attack and gauge boost is good. I'm totally content with my Hime, but my Eidolons leave plenty to desire.

Laventale

05-25-2018, 03:12 PM

HugMeTender

05-25-2018, 03:16 PM

True enough, however nearly all of my Thunder and Wind Hime are defender/healer so I don't benefit much from those haha. Gaia and Athena are my only SSR of those elements, Baal is my ONLY thunder SR, and my 3 wind SR are Cebele, Ithaqua, and Maeve.

I mean, maybe I'm just overlooking potential, but they all seem like damage isn't their priority.

Edit: It's kinda funny cause I have tons of water, dark, and Light Hime. Even a few Fire.

Slashley

05-25-2018, 03:48 PM

Awesome... Do you want to use Hades in a "offensive"-build?I never said anything about an offensive build.
However, an offensive build can still make use out of Hades. Once Awakened, she will hurt on Burst turns, plus she'll be amazing at keeping your party alive. A dead party doesn't deal any damage, after all.
Hades = Situational! If you put it that way, then everything is situational... like Chemo is situational. She, after all, is mostly dependant on elemental advantage.
Again, I didn't say anything other than NOT selling combo- short.
Killing Chernobog in 2T? Dude... -- use Tiamat's barrier (if you can ofc), --
Chernobog gets in every T 500HP..
Uhhhh..... Not trying to take any side here but just saying it's pretty hard to kill Cherno-mode. Not even Dysnomia can kill her without landing at least 3 of her 4 random hit nuke.
Forget to mention this, but she also has 100% def... so yea, good luck to kill her in 2T just with Tripple attack :)All of this is not available on turn1~
Or I guess technically it is, if you're going to use Chemo mode for one or two turns.
If you still have problems on AQ4 and depend on a combo attack rate debuff, then im just sorry for you.If by "depend" you mean "absolutely never have a Hime killed" then yes, I depend on it.
Previously, outside of elemental disadvantage, I pretty much never lost a Hime in AQ4. Now? I pretty much lose a Hime every single day. Like just today Cthulhu ate 8 attacks in a row (within three turns) and died from full, despite enemies being -40% Atk. Did I wipe that run? No. But is it annoying as fuck to lose a Hime just because of bad RNG? Yes. Yes it is. And if I didn't outgear?/outlevel?/outpower? the everliving shit out of AQ4, this would result in occasional wipes.

Combo- is absolutely amazing. And you really, really shouldn't sell it short. You want to run an offensive build? Sure. Future content seemingly hinges more on that front. But if you're looking for something to keep you alive, combo- should be one of the first things you look at. Right after heals, actually. Because depending on the power of your heals and the type of enemy Overdrives, combo- can do more for your team's survival than Atk- debuffs.

Bear

05-25-2018, 04:59 PM

Again, I didn't say anything other than NOT selling combo- short. All of this is not available on turn1~
Or I guess technically it is, if you're going to use Chemo mode for one or two turns.

Da heck you talking about. She gets a flat 30 burst from Abi1 right off the bat and gives herself a strong DATA buff with Abi2... And both skills only have 5CD and then she's up again. If anything she gains burst faster than she drains, fast enough that you can still FB with her fairly consistently without any help at all. And how is she 'only good with advantage'? She doesn't need crit to do 30~40% more dmg than the rest of your team via normal and burst.

HugMeTender

05-25-2018, 09:10 PM

Did anyone else lol a little when they saw the Skill Enhancement Gacha? "Hey, wanna spend $30 to get more of what you got for free in the event just now?" I mean, I guess the whole 10 weapons thing is different, but still. The Eidolon gacha seems even more bait and switch.

Is there concrete math behind the "higher odds" or are they just BS'ing us? I guarantee if I got an ssr pull from that gacha, it'd be a non-boosted rate Eidolon.

Cobblemaniac

05-25-2018, 09:30 PM

My water team is currently: Cthulhu, Nike (or Sol), Belphy, and Oceanus.

My Light team is currently: Athena, Shamash, Diana, and Sol.

So you did pick Sol. I approve huehuehue.

chunk of text, but I'm gonna look at the AQ side

Umm, blind? I'm not sure what you use for AQ4, but I'm at least guessing if you don't have combo- on hand, Mordred/ blinding eidolons are your next best bet. Also, element advantage aside, why don't you go for a team with -50% atk? I rarely get anything dying with my setup even with bad RNG... (although considering yes, my team for all AQ4 is literally holy water trinity and A Sol)

Did anyone else lol a little when they saw the Skill Enhancement Gacha? "Hey, wanna spend $30 to get more of what you got for free in the event just now?" I mean, I guess the whole 10 weapons thing is different, but still. The Eidolon gacha seems even more bait and switch.

Is there concrete math behind the "higher odds" or are they just BS'ing us? I guarantee if I got an ssr pull from that gacha, it'd be a non-boosted rate Eidolon.

I lol every single time they release a gacha with items that can be farmed, though I suppose it appeals to whales that don't wanna grind/ people with not enough time. This would work better in Japan, where probably literally 90% of the players are too busy with their work (and they work long hours. Long long looooooong hours).

Eidolon gacha is basically worthless, unless you're banking on getting one of those 100%s.

Higher odds referring to character rates? ... Not sure. 3% chance to pull an SSR, and you'd need I'd guesstimate at least a sample size above 100 SSRs to get a good look at the rates for SSRs. It complicates matters even more when half of those rates are eidos and the other half are weapons, but even so you'd need like 3400 pulls for that sample size. Someone from DMM might prove me wrong (what are those sources, galaxy whales? :neutral:), but I'm pretty, pretty dang sure no one's gonna want to pull that many in a row.

HugMeTender

05-25-2018, 09:33 PM

So you did pick Sol. I approve huehuehue.

I've come to the conclusion that Sol is bae :v

Cobblemaniac

05-25-2018, 09:38 PM

I've come to the conclusion that Sol is bae :v

I've at least yet to see someone regret miracle ticketing for Sol at least...

On hindsight, me miracle ticketing for Sol cause she's cute probably was a serious gamble of 50 bucks... but hey it worked out well

HugMeTender

05-25-2018, 09:40 PM

I've at least yet to see someone regret miracle ticketing for Sol at least...

On hindsight, me miracle ticketing for Sol cause she's cute probably was a serious gamble of 50 bucks... but hey it worked out well

Sometimes barely legal anime thighs that squeeze in the first scene are worth the risk.

Mraktar

05-25-2018, 11:05 PM

I have acc with water (Ctulhu, Belphy, Nike sr,Anahit) and light (Michael, Eros, Jihuti, Nike ) teams + i've got Mars too. Grid -Tiamat event stuff (all MLB+ extra LB2 Tiamat)+ LB2Sphynx, LB1 Vritra/Sphynx SSR. Now i rerolled into PTW eydo..... but it's Kirin+ couple offelement r, so they doesn't matter. I'm an FTP player and i'm confused. If i would have Belial/Rudra, i would switch withount any doubt, but with Kirin things ar not so uniquely. Some my statements about thunder my be wrong, fix me plz if i'm not correct.
1) Thunder has no heal at all (Gryla is dec ) and using off-element, like Nike means painfull damage loss with 100% eydo
2) Thunder has almost no def skills
3)Thunder has almost no debuffs (yes, Mammon, i know), but it's fixed with Darty with relic gun+ambush, so it' only matter of grind, not luck.
4) all this things means that only strategy for thunder is kill fast or die fast. I don't know, is it aquireble with 0 or almost 0 ssr.

From the other side we have a)PTW eydo is still PTW eydo.
b)PTW eydo means a lot of friends with PTW eydo so it's 200% element bonus
c)Next event is Thunder raid (Amaru). I don't need Eydo (only as sub), but weapons are very good boost to my grid, even MLB defenders with slv1 (if gacha will be nice to me).
d) Mammon is in a month and if i will play now, i should have 9k jevels (12k is too optimistic i think)+ about 25 premium tickets, so chance to get at least Azrael is high enough and maybe Mammon, but it's a matter of luck. Before it i will use Nike, Baal and 2 r from gem gacha.
e)dec will come and i will have thunder heal (she is event hime so i can't miss her if i will play that event).
So as i said i'm confused and don't know what to do. If I should play Kirin acc, I must start this weekend to prepare for Amaru event. I want to listen advices/ideas from as many people as possible.
Edit: spaces and paragraphes as Cobblemaniac wants

Cobblemaniac

05-26-2018, 12:15 AM

I have acc with water (Ctulhu, Belphy, Nike sr,Anahit) and light (Michael, Eros, Jihuti, Nike ) teams + i've got Mars too. Grid -Tiamat event stuff (all MLB+ extra LB2 Tiamat)+ LB2Sphynx, LB1 Vritra/Sphynx SSR. Now i rerolled into PTW eydo..... but it's Kirin+ couple offelement r, so they doesn't matter. I'm an FTP player and i'm confused. If i would have Belial/Rudra, i would switch withount any doubt, but with Kirin things ar not so uniquely. Some my statements about thunder my be wrong, fix me plz if i'm not correct. 1) Thunder has no heal at all (Gryla is dec ) and using off-element, like Nike means painfull damage loss with 100% eydo 2) Thunder has almost no def skills 3)Thunder has almost no debuffs (yes, Mammon, i know), but it's fixed with Darty with relic gun+ambush, so it' only matter of grind, not luck. 4) all this things means that only strategy for thunder is kill fast or die fast. I don't know, is it aquireble with 0 or almost 0 ssr.
From the other side we have a)PTW eydo is still PTW eydo. b)PTW eydo means a lot of friends with PTW eydo so it's 200% element bonus
c)Next event is Thunder raid (Amaru). I don't need Eydo (only as sub), but weapons are very good boost to my grid, even MLB defenders with slv1 (if gacha will be nice to me). d) Mammon is in a month and if i will play now, i should have 9k jevels (12k is too optimistic i think)+ about 25 premium tickets, so chance to get at least Azrael is high enough and maybe Mammon, but it's a matter of luck. Before it i will use Nike, Baal and 2 r from gem gacha. e)dec will come and i will have thunder heal (she is event hime so i can't miss her if i will play that event).
So as i said i'm confused and don't know what to do. If I should play Kirin acc, I must start this weekend to prepare for Amaru event. I want to listen advices/ideas from as many people as possible.

Jesus, spacing and paragraphing would help.

IMO it's a tie between water and the Kirin account, although I'd say the Kirin account has an edge over the water simply for having the 100% eidolon, since the himes are probability-wise a bit easier to get.

Aidoru

05-26-2018, 02:00 AM

text

As long as you put the effort into leveling your weapon grids, you can often just power through regular content enough to complete events, especially with a 100% eidolon. The only times you really need to worry about thunder's lack of healer weakness is in prolonged higher difficulty type battles, which in our current case is something like the Ragnarok raids, accessory quests and maybe high level union bosses, with 2 of these not even requiring to be solo.

In those cases of not having healers, you can always use a healer soul. D'art with her gun is a great soul for thunder teams but if you can clear a certain stage using a healer soul with regular sniper shot, then there's no reason not too. There's no need to tunnel yourself into thinking you can only use D'art. Although don't expect to complete future content like rank 5 accessory quests with a budget team like you can most of our current content. For the more difficult content, various specific himes are likely required and for thunder, many of them are SSRs, which makes thunder rather 'expensive' and not recommended for free players.

As for your points:
'b' isn't that important since you can just use someone who isn't a friend.

For 'd', trying to get Mammon with jewels and tickets, unless you're willing to put in 50 USDs for a miracle ticket, it shouldn't be a factor. Especially since you said you're a free player. There is no telling what you will get and in the case you don't get her or any essential thunder himes for the matter, this change would have been meaningless.

'e' seems to be the only redeeming factor in all this, as a free player. While a single SR thunder healer raid hime doesn't mean you should just down right swap over to a newly rerolled account with Kirin that has nothing else of value, the SR thunder healer hime is at least guaranteed and a good unit.

Unregistered

05-26-2018, 02:33 AM

Da heck you talking about. She gets a flat 30 burst from Abi1 right off the bat and gives herself a strong DATA buff with Abi2... And both skills only have 5CD and then she's up again. If anything she gains burst faster than she drains, fast enough that you can still FB with her fairly consistently without any help at all. And how is she 'only good with advantage'? She doesn't need crit to do 30~40% more dmg than the rest of your team via normal and burst.

Thank you Bear!

I never said anything about an offensive build.
However, an offensive build can still make use out of Hades. Once Awakened, she will hurt on Burst turns, plus she'll be amazing at keeping your party alive. A dead party doesn't deal any damage, after all.If you put it that way, then everything is situational... like Chemo is situational. She, after all, is mostly dependant on elemental advantage.
Again, I didn't say anything other than NOT selling combo- short.All of this is not available on turn1~
Or I guess technically it is, if you're going to use Chemo mode for one or two turns.If by "depend" you mean "absolutely never have a Hime killed" then yes, I depend on it.

Dude, I already explained how her skills work and you still didn't understand it.
Chernobog, Pluto & Berith will easily outperform Hades AW.
They will do more damage per hit and more Burst Damage.
If you don't have one of those Himes then use Hades. Otherwise no please use a fucking damage dealer. Susano AW would be also a good choice.

Keeping your party alive? Man... What are you talking about?
That'll be Plutos job with her damage cut and party RST...
Most of the "core" Himes have a skill to survive.

Satan AW = energy drain, 15BG to herself and Orb eater --> Synergy with Osiris and Pluto

Osiris = 2T no damage and 1.100 party heal +15 party BG

Chernobog = One-Man-Party Mode --> 500 HP/T & 100% def
She has a Skill that offers every 5T 30 BG --> Synergy with Osiris and Pluto

Berith = 100% ascension as a Assist Skill for herself --> synergy with Osiris.
She is your tank and has similar skills like Shamash but does way more damage.

Can't you understand that there is a fucking synergy with those Dark Himes? That's one more reason you shouldn't use Hades in a damage build... She isn't a core anymore.

And no, non of them is situational. You can also use them for off-elememt.
I would at least try to get either Chernobog or Berith for your damage build.

Again for defensive I would still go with Joan instead of Hades.

Unregistered

05-26-2018, 02:51 AM

BlazeAlter

05-26-2018, 04:35 AM

PS: Blaze if you can try to get Dark Amaterasu next year, I hope you have luck.
You can build a better defensive build with her and she is very versatile.
She is still amazing. Not for a damage build, but for defensive and some hard contents.

Hmmm.. I.. don't know though. I mean I'd like to get her, but if I recall correctly someone said here that she would return but she wouldn't be included in the jewel gacha by that time? Or am I mistaken?
(I'm still unsure about rolling non-guaranteed gachas that require real money to pay since I've experienced a lot of pain with those in past games, but if I am indeed wrong and she would still be in the jewel gacha then I wouldn't mind)

and I can actually see why Berith and Chernobog are important now and why you said Hades is okay to be replaced in the future.. good synergy indeed with Pluto, Berith will be the one taunting and tanking the attacks, while Chernobog would be whamming the boss hard, and if its an AoE overdrive, then it would be Pluto's turn to shine with her damage cut (and jeanne if the situation needs it)
well that's how I mostly imagined it would go anyway

Mraktar

05-26-2018, 04:38 AM

As long as you put the effort into leveling your weapon grids, you can often just power through regular content enough to complete events, especially with a 100% eidolon. The only times you really need to worry about thunder's lack of healer weakness is in prolonged higher difficulty type battles, which in our current case is something like the Ragnarok raids, accessory quests and maybe high level union bosses, with 2 of these not even requiring to be solo.

In those cases of not having healers, you can always use a healer soul. D'art with her gun is a great soul for thunder teams but if you can clear a certain stage using a healer soul with regular sniper shot, then there's no reason not too. There's no need to tunnel yourself into thinking you can only use D'art. Although don't expect to complete future content like rank 5 accessory quests with a budget team like you can most of our current content. For the more difficult content, various specific himes are likely required and for thunder, many of them are SSRs, which makes thunder rather 'expensive' and not recommended for free players.

As for your points:
'b' isn't that important since you can just use someone who isn't a friend.

For 'd', trying to get Mammon with jewels and tickets, unless you're willing to put in 50 USDs for a miracle ticket, it shouldn't be a factor. Especially since you said you're a free player. There is no telling what you will get and in the case you don't get her or any essential thunder himes for the matter, this change would have been meaningless.

'e' seems to be the only redeeming factor in all this, as a free player. While a single SR thunder healer raid hime doesn't mean you should just down right swap over to a newly rerolled account with Kirin that has nothing else of value, the SR thunder healer hime is at least guaranteed and a good unit.

I can agree with some of your arguments. Yes, i am not planing to use mainly Darty next months, at least before i will get relic gun. My main souls should be Mordred and Cassy for a long time, and then Gryla will be released someday. AQ5... lol, i've seen them on youtube so i already understand that i will never do them with FTP group and i don't care about it at all. 'd'... yes, i understand that chance to get Mammon is very low, but still will try to get her. Friends with PTW eydos not that impornant? seriously? It's one of the main reasons, maybe even main for me to switch to Kirin because chance to see non-friend 100% is very very low - maybe 1-2 every day. And when you have 5-6 friends with needed 100%, you will get her in more then half battles (exclude for example 30 min gem grind) so you may hope to get her for important battles (AQ, ulti/ragnarok raids etc). And there is only 1 way to get all those friends - provide them with your own 100%. The only thing that i can't understand what account has more potential strength for FTP - blank Kirin one Vs Ctulhu+Belphy/Michael+Eros/Mars one. Maybe i will continue rerolls for Rudra/Belial.

Unregistered

05-26-2018, 04:55 AM

Hmmm.. I.. don't know though. I mean I'd like to get her, but if I recall correctly someone said here that she would return but she wouldn't be included in the jewel gacha by that time? Or am I mistaken?
(I'm still unsure about rolling non-guaranteed gachas that require real money to pay since I've experienced a lot of pain with those in past games, but if I am indeed wrong and she would still be in the jewel gacha then I wouldn't mind)

and I can actually see why Berith and Chernobog are important now and why you said Hades is okay to be replaced in the future.. good synergy indeed with Pluto, Berith will be the one taunting and tanking the attacks, while Chernobog would be whamming the boss hard, and if its an AoE overdrive, then it would be Pluto's turn to shine with her damage cut (and jeanne if the situation needs it)
well that's how I mostly imagined it would go anyway

It was with star coins. That's why I said "if you can".
I don't know how Nutaku will handle it but it's your choice.

Dark Ama would allow you to use a team like this for defense:
- Shingen with Attack down A-Frame or Jeanne with PF but you will need to run Osiris, to play save.
- Satan AW/Amon (in your case)
- Pluto
- Berith (for tanking) or Chernobog (has 100% def) or Osiris (if you want heal)
- Dark Ama --> Snipper + BP

Berith and Chernobog are strong Dark Himes. They both hit very hard, more than Satan AW, Hades AW and Susano AW.
"Important", well if you really main dark then you should Miracle at least Berith if you don't have one of those two power packs until the 4th Miracle Ticket.
Otherwise if you don't main dark, your team is good enough.
Chernobog is still a bit tricky, Berith is overall the better choice because she dosen't run out of her damage after Burst like Chernobog with her "One-Man-Army"-Skill.

Don't forget both have a good synergy with Osiris too!
Like I said before:
Chernobog = One-Man-Army Mode --> 500 HP/T & 100% def
She has a Skill that offers every 5T 30 BG --> Synergy with Osiris and Pluto

Berith = 100% ascension as a Assist Skill for herself --> synergy with Osiris.
Why? Because with 100% ascension she will get more healing, but her assist skill is just for herself not party.
Basically Berith won't get 1.100HP from Osiris but a lot more...

That's why I am saying you should keep your eyes to get one of those two.

BlazeAlter

05-26-2018, 05:01 AM

It was with star coins. That's why I said "if you can".
I don't know how Nutaku will handle it but it's your choice.

Dark Ama would allow you to use a team like this for defense:
- Shingen with Attack down A-Frame or Jeanne with PF but you will need to run Osiris, to play save.
- Satan AW/Amon (in your case)
- Pluto
- Berith (for tanking) or Chernobog (has 100% def) or Osiris (if you want heal)
- Dark Ama --> Snipper + BP

Berith and Chernobog are strong Dark Himes. They both hit very hard, more than Satan AW, Hades AW and Susano AW.
"Important", well if you really main dark then you should Miracle at least Berith if you don't have one of those two power packs until the 4th Miracle Ticket.
Otherwise if you don't main dark, your team is good enough.
Chernobog is still a bit tricky, Berith is overall the better choice because she dosen't run out of her damage after Burst like Chernobog with her "One-Man-Army"-Skill.

Don't forget both have a good synergy with Osiris too!
Like I said before:
Chernobog = One-Man-Army Mode --> 500 HP/T & 100% def
She has a Skill that offers every 5T 30 BG --> Synergy with Osiris and Pluto

Berith = 100% ascension as a Assist Skill for herself --> synergy with Osiris.
Why? Because with 100% ascension she will get more healing, but her assist skill is just for herself not party.
Basically Berith won't get 1.100HP from Osiris but a lot more...

That's why I am saying you should keep your eyes to get one of those two.

yeah I'm kinda leaning towards Berith more because of her tank role, and that alone would actually help increase survival for the other himes..
and like you said, Chernobog is good at what she does, but she's not without her flaws

But yeah since it's still gonna be awhile till they come here, I can actually consider one of them for the 4th miracle ticket. Thanks again for your opinion btw

Unregistered

05-26-2018, 05:21 AM

yeah I'm kinda leaning towards Berith more because of her tank role, and that alone would actually help increase survival for the other himes..
and like you said, Chernobog is good at what she does, but she's not without her flaws

But yeah since it's still gonna be awhile till they come here, I can actually consider one of them for the 4th miracle ticket. Thanks again for your opinion btw

She isn't only your tank. She is more of a offensive tanker, I would say.
She does more damage than the awakened Dark Himes and she will burst fast, if she gets attacked because of her "intercept" skill.
She will dodge the enemies attack and attack back = 10BG more.

And she is cute too. ww.w.神姫プロジェクト.攻略wiki.com/index.php?ベリト

Slashley

05-26-2018, 07:36 AM

Is there concrete math behind the "higher odds" or are they just BS'ing us? I guarantee if I got an ssr pull from that gacha, it'd be a non-boosted rate Eidolon.I am under the impression that Japanese law requires companies to tell the odds, which is why we know them... in the DMM version. Eidolon boosted rate there is 2.5x. So, if we assume that normally a P2W Eidolon will cost you 10k bucks, then with this gacha it'd be a meager 4k bucks each. It could be higher boost since there's four of them, but since we don't know how the P2W Eidolons are weighted down, it's difficult to tell for sure.

Here, we don't know the boosted odds. For all we know, it's possible that Nutaku has gone full greed and lowered Hime boost to 1.5x even though DMM started with 5x and was at 15x at this point (currently 20x). We just don't know. Massive whales might know, but even if they compile their data, they often don't like sharing.

I'm mostly puzzled about it because I remember that a long time ago, Nutaku did a "OMG FOUR TIMES THE BOOST" premium gacha. Or was it two times? Either way, considering how the boost modifier was supposed to be FIVE times... ... that made me raise an eyebrow. If it was four times the modifier of five, why wouldn't they advertise it as "4*5 OMG 20 TIMES THE ODDS!"?

tl;dr; the boost rate is probably a thing, but we don't know how much of a thing.

Aidoru

05-26-2018, 08:02 AM

I can agree with some of your arguments. Yes, i am not planing to use mainly Darty next months, at least before i will get relic gun. My main souls should be Mordred and Cassy for a long time, and then Gryla will be released someday. AQ5... lol, i've seen them on youtube so i already understand that i will never do them with FTP group and i don't care about it at all. 'd'... yes, i understand that chance to get Mammon is very low, but still will try to get her. Friends with PTW eydos not that impornant? seriously? It's one of the main reasons, maybe even main for me to switch to Kirin because chance to see non-friend 100% is very very low - maybe 1-2 every day. And when you have 5-6 friends with needed 100%, you will get her in more then half battles (exclude for example 30 min gem grind) so you may hope to get her for important battles (AQ, ulti/ragnarok raids etc). And there is only 1 way to get all those friends - provide them with your own 100%. The only thing that i can't understand what account has more potential strength for FTP - blank Kirin one Vs Ctulhu+Belphy/Michael+Eros/Mars one. Maybe i will continue rerolls for Rudra/Belial.

I didn't say ptw eidolons aren't important, I'm saying your 'b' isn't much of a factor, this being because you can use any 100% eidolon you see when selecting a support eidolon, even if they're not on your friend list, you will still get their effect. The thing is, you seriously don't need 2 100% eidolons at all times. Don't get me wrong, having 2 can very much help, but that amount of power is generally overkill for most regular content. It'll make already easy content easier. Having double 100% eidolons only becomes really important for the more difficult content, they very same content that you won't be able to do without the proper himes to begin with. These important battles are usually limited, adding onto my reasoning that you don't need them at all times. Then there's the fact that you can reroll for an alt account and friend them with your main, always having access to a 100%, if it really matters.

As for your last question, if you were someone who spent money on this game, having a 100% eidolon is undoubtedly better in the long run because it would be guaranteed potential to grow. Without being willing to spend any money, it becomes nothing but a gamble. Me for example, despite having played from launch and even spending some money, I do not have a single SSR wind or water hime.

If you really want a free to play team, then stick with Hraesvelger as wind teams are much more viable as a completely free player.

Mraktar

05-26-2018, 08:45 AM

As for your last question, if you were someone who spent money on this game, having a 100% eidolon is undoubtedly better in the long run because it would be guaranteed potential to grow. Without being willing to spend any money, it becomes nothing but a gamble. Me for example, despite having played from launch and even spending some money, I do not have a single SSR wind or water hime.

If you really want a free to play team, then stick with Hraesvelger as wind teams are much more viable as a completely free player.
I am not discussing the wind acc because it is and will be my main. I want to select a secondary one because kamihime punishes hard for been new player so i want to start it fast. At least i will complete daylies/weeklies/events with it for a while. And difference between 145 and 200% is can i kill advent ragnarok or not, can i kill AQ3 with no elemental advantage or not, can i get MVP/viceMVP on raid or not and so on, and all this with not so good hime setup.

BlazeAlter

05-26-2018, 09:17 AM

She isn't only your tank. She is more of a offensive tanker, I would say.
She does more damage than the awakened Dark Himes and she will burst fast, if she gets attacked because of her "intercept" skill.
She will dodge the enemies attack and attack back = 10BG more.

And she is cute too. ww.w.神姫プロジェクト.攻略wiki.com/index.php?ベリト

that's actually true..
besides berith, cherno, and the other ones you said, are there any other dark himes i should keep an eye out for? or is there none as of yet?

Unregistered

05-26-2018, 09:34 AM

that's actually true..
besides berith, cherno, and the other ones you said, are there any other dark himes i should keep an eye out for? or is there none as of yet?

true, that she is cute?

There is one but it's still one year away until you will get her.
She is OP and will make your team OP but ONLY against Light Enemies! (She has a skill that will make your entire party extremly stronger and they will do a lot more damage)
She is pretty much useless for off-element though.
I wouldn't miracle her but if you ever get her, I would use her for light fights. --> ww.w.神姫プロジェクト.攻略wiki.com/index.php?アガリアレプト

Otherwise Berith and Chernobog are the better option.
Well, I still hope that Osiris gets an awakening...

BlazeAlter

05-26-2018, 09:47 AM

true, that she is cute?

There is one but it's still one year away until you will get her.
She is OP and will make your team OP but ONLY against Light Enemies! (She has a skill that will make your entire party extremly stronger and they will do a lot more damage)
She is pretty much useless for off-element though.
I wouldn't miracle her but if you ever get her, I would use her for light fights. --> ww.w.神姫プロジェクト.攻略wiki.com/index.php?アガリアレプト

Otherwise Berith and Chernobog are the better option.
Well, I still hope that Osiris gets an awakening...

Well I suppose lol

I'll take note of that, but since I still often use my dark team against all elements, then I'd likely go for Berith more in the long run
I strongly believe she will have one.. I'm hoping this month but who knows..
best girl deserves it

Unregistered

05-26-2018, 10:21 AM

Well I suppose lol

I'll take note of that, but since I still often use my dark team against all elements, then I'd likely go for Berith more in the long run
I strongly believe she will have one.. I'm hoping this month but who knows..
best girl deserves it

As I can see, you main Dark. Then of course you should Miracle Berith if you don't get her or Chernobog before.
And I hope you can get Satan without Miracle. Otherwise you will use Amon/Samael (if you get her).

However we got off the actual subject a bit, I guess.
Well, hopefully I was able to help you.

Aeriko

05-26-2018, 11:28 AM

What is the most efficient way to farm for Vine? Is there a specific quest that has more mats drop? Thanks.

HugMeTender

05-26-2018, 11:42 AM

What is the most efficient way to farm for Vine? Is there a specific quest that has more mats drop? Thanks.I think the subs usually have the highest drop rate. Does Snatch even work? I've never noticed a difference.

BlazeAlter

05-26-2018, 12:00 PM

As I can see, you main Dark. Then of course you should Miracle Berith if you don't get her or Chernobog before.
And I hope you can get Satan without Miracle. Otherwise you will use Amon/Samael (if you get her).

However we got off the actual subject a bit, I guess.
Well, hopefully I was able to help you.

Well 4th miracle ticket is a long ways off anyway, but I'm most likely gonna pick Berith now (or Chernobog if I changed my mind, lots of time, who knows)
I don't really mind using Amon Unleashed though.. while she may not be as fast at bursting like Satan AW might be, she at least helps me get out of raging phases quickly (with her its easier to do any R4 element right now for me, some mobs are a different story though)

and it's fine.. my first question was mostly answered anyway, everyone suggested I should just see and roll around some more before I decide to spend the 3rd MT on water or thunder. I'll probably ask more stuff like this in the future but for now most of my questions have been answered

and again thank you again for the advice lol

Slashley

05-26-2018, 12:25 PM

What is the most efficient way to farm for Vine? Is there a specific quest that has more mats drop? Thanks.Farm either Nike's Rampage, or... uh, not sure about which one it is. Monster Prognostication maybe?

Both of those maps have 8 mobs (sadly no 9 mobs anywhere), but the latter (if I have the right name, not sure) occasionally spawns a Rare mob. A Rare mob means slightly less mats, but should drop you a R weapon every time.

HugMeTender

05-26-2018, 01:11 PM

So the guide & thread I found on this website about accessories still leaves me with some questions.
What I do believe I've gleaned, however, is that non-SSR accessories are not worth leveling up and that only SR accessories should be used for enhancing due to the high gem costs.

Is this is the case, how do I gain my first SSR accessory? I'm totally at a loss on how the Accessory points, shop mechanics, and farming works.

I would also assume it is not possible for someone low rank like me to complete the 4th accessory quest (granted I had the materials to even enter in the first place).

Slashley

05-26-2018, 02:00 PM

So the guide & thread I found on this website about accessories still leaves me with some questions.
What I do believe I've gleaned, however, is that non-SSR accessories are not worth leveling up--That's... not exactly true. The problem is, SSR accessories are really rare. When you do find them, chances are really high that it'll be total garbage. But, if you DO find a good SSR, it'll entirely blow SRs out of the water.

So, the point is, either go for good SRs or good SSR. Affliction (for characters with debuffs) >> Atk/Dbl > Def > garbage. There's a proper list in the actual Accessory thread, but that's the short version.

Personally? I went for good Rs first. Mostly because finding good SRs is a pain in the bloody ass, and secondly because you can get three max level Rs for the cost of one max level SR.
Is this is the case, how do I gain my first SSR accessory? I'm totally at a loss on how the Accessory points, shop mechanics, and farming works.You can forget about accessory points and shop mechanics, really. Just go farm AQ, the highest you can clear, and that's it. Once you find an accessory you want to use, level it up using the other accessories that have dropped.

Just notice that going from level 1 to max level is HIGHLY recommended. Leveling a level 2 accessory to max level is already TWICE as expensive. Sanathlig has made an... okay... ish... calc for this, so play around with that to see what you need to hit max level.
I would also assume it is not possible for someone low rank like me to complete the 4th accessory quest (granted I had the materials to even enter in the first place).Considering how even low ranks can have impressive grids now, I wouldn't be too sure about that. I'd say that 100% Assault is the "pain barrier" where clearing AQ4 becomes less of a chore, though with a good group and elemental advantage you absolutely can do it much, much earlier. You will need to know how to fight against all three waves though, as all of them can be very deadly. Do NOT shy away from going full out even against the first wave, I've often full-bursted in wave1 for example to prevent a trash mob from reaching Overdrive.

So, with a good grid and a good group, maybe even you could clear one or two AQ4 elements? I wouldn't recommend testing that right away though, try AQ3 first at most. If you AQ3 seems easy-ish, then AQ4 should be doable.

Aidoru

05-26-2018, 02:36 PM

I am not discussing the wind acc because it is and will be my main. I want to select a secondary one because kamihime punishes hard for been new player so i want to start it fast. At least i will complete daylies/weeklies/events with it for a while. And difference between 145 and 200% is can i kill advent ragnarok or not, can i kill AQ3 with no elemental advantage or not, can i get MVP/viceMVP on raid or not and so on, and all this with not so good hime setup.

I wasn't aware we were talking about an alt account. If that's the case, then you can honestly just forget my previous posts and grab the Kirin account so your main account can benefit from it, regardless of what happens in the future to that alt account.

HugMeTender

05-26-2018, 03:59 PM

So I got this from A3 Dark (which I can only beat doing manual) I mean, it has ATK. My only dark SSR is Satan.

Worth using? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180526/fac7636fea4a5c799f88e8b5a846a2cc.jpg

Slashley

05-26-2018, 04:04 PM

It is better than garbage. It is very costly to level up though. I think you can slap 20 SR1s into it eventually and it'll be fairly good. Then finish it up later, it's not like you can realistically get SSRs to max in one go. 20 SR1s when doing AQ3s will take a long, long time though~

By the way, the droprate of SSRs is probably the same in AQ3 and AQ4. AQ4 just gives you about +2 Ns, +2 Rs and +1 SR.

blubbergott

05-26-2018, 05:45 PM

What I do believe I've gleaned, however, is that non-SSR accessories are not worth leveling up and that only SR accessories should be used for enhancing due to the high gem costs.

That's actually the complete opposite of what i do. I leveled all atk Rs (19 same ele Rs + 1 same ele SR) and good SRs like atk/affliction + def (20+5 same ele SRs). SSRs are so expensive to max that I only do it if it's actually really good and i have enough spare gems (which rarely is the case, damn EU times + awakenings).

HugMeTender

05-27-2018, 12:23 PM

Team crafting time! I'm wanting to build a R only team for future events to complete more missions.

In terms of weapons, my best element is Light. Both in terms of number of Assault and level.

I included a list of my Eidolon just in case that is the deciding factor in which element I use.

I'll eventually build an SR only team, but I don't have a lot of them yet. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180527/17a99837ffa4019213bbca4933f81892.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180527/f306c471d7b1595e2e4b1712f400a0f7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180527/a7ffa78b3ecf11d13f95c6f010f9101d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180527/c431941202bafe2bdbf767c0cdece8fd.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180527/3d7d86a2f25d06e296911bd915af4166.jpg

Cobblemaniac

05-27-2018, 07:42 PM

Loads of images

Holy. I suggest you compile a spreadsheet of your himes next time...

Would recommend my own except I don't have time to update it, and it's not exactly user friendly...

Eidolon is a matter of mix and match, choose whichever one gives you the highest possible base stats while compromising for particularly good active effects. The latter only if the effect is really good, like Vine, for beginners.

That aside... I assume you're already planning to build R teams for those missions requiring Rs for ultimate in advent. For now, don't, that's jumping the gun a bit too far. You likely don't have the weapon grid or the appropriate Soul EX skills (or Souls, for that matter) to properly back your team up. I recommend at least 80% assault and 6-8k HP on your himes before you actually attempt the R missions (it probably can be lower, other people will probably give you a better gauge). Stick with your SSR and SR himes for now (your best setup), there's literally no significant drawback in using them in current content to justify using lower rank himes.

Edit: Of course, if you're really looking to muscle your way through one way or another, the best advice I can offer you for now is... Look out for Konohana-Sakuya, the debuffs she has on hand are one of the most powerful for an R hime. So much its worth running her off-element, at least in ultimate advents, IMO.

HugMeTender

05-27-2018, 07:54 PM

Holy. I suggest you compile a spreadsheet of your himes next time...

Would recommend my own except I don't have time to update it, and it's not exactly user friendly...

Eidolon is a matter of mix and match, choose whichever one gives you the highest possible base stats while compromising for particularly good active effects. The latter only if the effect is really good, like Vine, for beginners.

That aside... I assume you're already planning to build R teams for those missions requiring Rs for ultimate in advent. For now, don't, that's jumping the gun a bit too far. You likely don't have the weapon grid or the appropriate Soul EX skills (or Souls, for that matter) to properly back your team up. I recommend at least 80% assault and 6-8k HP on your himes before you actually attempt the R missions (it probably can be lower, other people will probably give you a better gauge). Stick with your SSR and SR himes for now (your best setup), there's literally no significant drawback in using them in current content to justify using lower rank himes.

Edit: Of course, if you're really looking to muscle your way through one way or another, the best advice I can offer you for now is... Look out for Konohana-Sakuya, the debuffs she has on hand are one of the most powerful for an R hime. So much its worth running her off-element, at least in ultimate advents, IMO.Sorry about that, didn't think of the spreadsheet idea. Can you upload Excel files to this forum directly?

Im sporting about 34k attack and my current team hovers around 5.4k health. I do need to increase my ratio of Assault however.

I just really wanna go hardcore on not missing any more shards (trying to stack them up before I really start needing them).

Cobblemaniac

05-27-2018, 08:24 PM

Sorry about that, didn't think of the spreadsheet idea. Can you upload Excel files to this forum directly?

Im sporting about 34k attack and my current team hovers around 5.4k health. I do need to increase my ratio of Assault however.

I just really wanna go hardcore on not missing any more shards (trying to stack them up before I really start needing them).

https://harem-battle.club/kamihime-project/4376-khp-account-template.html

This is the thread I started for the template, it utilises Google Sheets instead of Excel. Feel free to use it, or take ideas from it, but I've been told it's a tad bit too confusing for most people to care to use.

For your health... What's your rank? You can take the displayed health of your hime and add (rank*8) to their HP.

As for your team, elemental advantage is strongly recommended, although I doubt at this point you'll have grids (nor will you bother to have them) for every single element, so I would simply build a light team with Dike Illana Urania on the front and Kamadeva Orpheus on the back.

The reason why there's only 3 hime on the front is cause I'm leaving the last slot to Konohana. Yes, I know you don't have her, but yes, I believe she's that fucking good to include even for a person who doesn't have her. Pull more jewel gachas (or premium tickets, you'll get 23 from any raid event) for her weapon asap.

Urania should be replaced by other himes stat, however. That can either be some dps hime (Daphne is particularly good, but of course you gotta pull her), or if you find you want more atk down, wait till you pull Zephyrus for that C frame atk break. The extra frame stack should help a ton. The last notable mention I have for Urania replacement is niche, and her name is Kushinada. Treat her as a sacrifical lamb for any strong single target orb burst from the bosses, she'll tank every hit including overkill until she dies. Whatever you use, however, must come with appropriate judgement so you don't end up wasting AP, or your patience.

With himes out of the way, you only have Souls to worry about (or their EX skills really). Black propaganda is a very indispensable skill to have in R only battles, you usually don't have the luxury of setting up tank mode for your himes in an R team to eat the orb bursts. Joan's atk break also helps to mitigate quite a bit of damage (my setup runs Joan's skill with Konohana and Zephryus to hit the atk break cap), which can be helpful if you find the boss's normal hits are harder than you're comfortable dealing with. Notable mention goes to using Andromeda herself, if you're lacking heals. Personally I prefer using Mordred with Joan's EX because of VoF, I usually fear that debuffs don't land.

Except once again, I don't actually know what I'm doing with most R teams, it's a trial and error process for me. Collecting more opinions will likely serve you better in the long run.

Aidoru

05-27-2018, 09:11 PM

Dike, Daphne, Kamadeva and just about anyone else you have for the last slot. Can ignore Urania, her atk down is only -5%, not even worth her use, You'd be better off focusing on a more offensive R like Inanna and just relying on your soul to make up for missing debuffs.

MagicSpice

05-28-2018, 08:19 PM

I didn't know about this but... apparently "favorite weapons" applies when enhancing kamihime as well:

https://i.imgur.com/uo4PGgv.png

i know having one in your grid is a stat bonus, but apparently some of the enhancement materials give them a 1.5 multiplier just like weapons getting enhanced. otherwise, there's no way you'd crack 10k exp per batch (500 from each SR enhance mat times 20).

sorry if i'm late on this, but i'm just pointing it out there, cause how often do you really use weapons to enhance your kamihime anyway?

Aidoru

05-28-2018, 08:27 PM

That's incorrect. It's the weapon element. Light himes get all the bonus exp while other elements don't because all weapon enhance materials are light.

HugMeTender

05-28-2018, 08:28 PM

MagicSpice

05-28-2018, 08:29 PM

That's incorrect. It's the weapon element. Light himes get all the bonus exp while other elements don't because all weapon enhance materials are light.

oh, so they go the eidolon route....

that kinda sucks then cause the good exp is only on the SR mats in the case of kamihime (cause even R ones is crap after about lv15ish)

also kinda hoping KP gets the ReBless treatment and gets SSR materials eventually...

Cobblemaniac

05-28-2018, 08:35 PM

oh, so they go the eidolon route....

that kinda sucks then cause the good exp is only on the SR mats in the case of kamihime (cause even R ones is crap after about lv15ish)

also kinda hoping KP gets the ReBless treatment and gets SSR materials eventually...

I... fail to see why that's necessary.

Weapon enhance was probably never the intended way to level your himes in the long run, considering they get XP for each clear in some quest, it's a simple process of gradual levelling.

Enhancing weapons and eidolons on the other hand... you'll actually see in the long run that they're quite easy to max level with enhance, especially with the inclusion of SR enhance mats in gemcha.

And union events... don't get me started on how many mats you can farm there.

Bear

05-28-2018, 09:24 PM

@Magic @Cobble,

Very recent, but we got this:

https://i.imgur.com/WPnZ6UV.png
https://i.imgur.com/US1VtkJ.png

Cost eyes / jews though.

Laventale

05-28-2018, 09:29 PM

Very recent, but we got this:

https://i.imgur.com/WPnZ6UV.png
https://i.imgur.com/US1VtkJ.png

Cost eyes / jews though.

Mind telling us what are these for?

Cobblemaniac

05-28-2018, 10:18 PM

Mind telling us what are these for?

They're like enhance materials for himes iirc.

Remember I mentioned DMM twitter announced something called "arcanum of life"? That looks like the second picture, the first one is probably the SSR version of that, translated... "arcanum of everything"? I try with japanese but it hard man...

Either way my take on it is... it's from pay2wincha, not worth. Unless it isn't. Himes are quite easy to level anyway.

Deus5659

05-28-2018, 11:12 PM

Pretty new player here. So does this game ever have other guaranteed SSR gachas aside from these 3 at the start or are they the only ones we get?

Cobblemaniac

05-28-2018, 11:48 PM

Pretty new player here. So does this game ever have other guaranteed SSR gachas aside from these 3 at the start or are they the only ones we get?

The only other guaranteed gacha I can remember comes every 4 months or so in the "miracle ticket", which for 5000 star coins allows you to pull a regular 10 chain gacha (premium level I guess) and pick any SSR kamihime of your choice. Aka, the best gacha we have so far. The next one is likely scheduled in August.

Delete

05-29-2018, 12:31 AM

Whoa. So you use like, SR guns or something? Im guessing that's her favorite anyway.

Nop. All the weapons enhancements are Light element, so they gift extra XP to level up all Light Kamihime.

Slashley

05-29-2018, 01:38 AM

sorry if i'm late on this, but i'm just pointing it out there, cause how often do you really use weapons to enhance your kamihime anyway?Every day. Since Gem Gacha floods me in R and SR fodder garbage every day and all my weapons are leveled up.

I'll soon run out of SR books to get stuff to level up, though. Then I'll need to sell that garbage for a whopping 10 Gems each...
That's incorrect. It's the weapon element. Light himes get all the bonus exp while other elements don't because all weapon enhance materials are light.Oh, holy shit. I thought Sol was just bugged. But this makes sense.
Pretty new player here. So does this game ever have other guaranteed SSR gachas aside from these 3 at the start or are they the only ones we get?What Cobble said. Miracle Tickets pop-up about once every four months. We are... two months away from the next one? Ish? Are we? Not sure. Details!

Also, the guaranteed SSR gachas refresh about once a month, and Nutaku gives you a ~24 hour-ish warning about the refresh. We're about two weeks away from the refresh, I hope that they'll refresh it during Mammon.

Yolodesu

05-29-2018, 01:52 AM

Am i the only one having issues with auto battle (the green one, not AAB)

Sometimes when i activate it, it just freezes for a few seconds, and then instantly does way more turns than it should. It's like 10 turns in 10 seconds (freezing time included)
I've failed an AQ and a rag because of this :(

I also have the "wait for last turn to finish" thingy constantly since last patch.

Slashley

05-29-2018, 02:37 AM

Am i the only one having issues with auto battle (the green one, not AAB)

Sometimes when i activate it, it just freezes for a few seconds, and then instantly does way more turns than it should. It's like 10 turns in 10 seconds (freezing time included)
I've failed an AQ and a rag because of this :(I've had that happen with AAB, though it was more like 10 actions per second than one per second.

Cobblemaniac

05-29-2018, 02:39 AM

Yolodesu

05-29-2018, 03:02 AM

I've had that happen with AAB, though it was more like 10 actions per second than one per second.

Ye maybe it's more like that. Too much turns anyway.

Unregistered

05-29-2018, 02:39 PM

LIGHT Team: Mordred(EX A_Def -20%) + Michael[replaceable] + Light Nike + Eros + Sol. (total debuff -30%Def/-50% Atk)
How does this sound to you? Since I don't have all the luxury to raise all my element to the max, I thought about concentrating on 1 or 2 element and LIGHT is the first one I thought about. The kind of build I'm aiming for is ENDURANCE for maximum survival rate, but can still do high damage hence why I choose Light Nike for her +120% Atk max party buff (yeah have to wait 10 turns but that's better than nothing)

Yeah Light Nike is still super far away (in 2019? ouf) but I can manage to wait that long, and I would have all the necessary ressources to pull her (which is good since she's a limited edition)

Slashley

05-29-2018, 02:57 PM

Ikki

05-29-2018, 03:19 PM

(total debuff -30%Def/-50% Atk)

Going for 50% atk down instead of 50% def down? ooooook.

Saberborn

05-29-2018, 03:34 PM

Not only is Light Nike far away, she's also Limited, which makes her extremely hard to get.

Also, if we're talking that far into the future, you'll probably be running Hercules with Provisional Forest. So you should be looking for a way to get -25% Def from your Hime somehow - SSR Tsukuyomi being a rather common method of that.

Not only that but she is included with thunder aphrodite. Makes the odds worse since two limited girls with rate up. Im praying i draw thunder aphro instead of light nike. Ill have roughly 120k jewels by then so hoping i dont need to whale, but probably will have to.

Slashley

05-29-2018, 03:45 PM

Not only that but she is included with thunder aphrodite. Makes the odds worse since two limited girls with rate up. Im praying i draw thunder aphro instead of light nike. Ill have roughly 120k jewels by then so hoping i dont need to whale, but probably will have to.As good as Thunder Aphrodite is, she isn't broken as fuck. Unlike Light Nike.

Even with Kirin, you will NOT be sorry if you draw Light Nike.

Unregistered

05-29-2018, 03:54 PM

Speaking of thunder aphro, what's that 12T of barrier I see there? It seems pretty OP lol

Saberborn

05-29-2018, 03:55 PM

Well, that's good to hear! Honestly haven't been looking at too many himes except for fire/thunder.

Slashley

05-29-2018, 04:06 PM

Speaking of thunder aphro, what's that 12T of barrier I see there? It seems pretty OP lolAccording to the wiki, it was originally a typo, but a couple of months after release they buffed her to actually be a 12t Barrier...

But since it doesn't stack, it's quite meaningless. It's better than 3/5 turn Barrier sure, but honestly, the buff isn't that much of a deal. The Vigor buff and Thunder healer are what make Thunder Aphrodite, and particularly the synergy between all three of her skills.

Ikki

05-29-2018, 04:07 PM

As good as Thunder Aphrodite is, she isn't broken as fuck. Unlike Light Nike.

Even with Kirin, you will NOT be sorry if you draw Light Nike.

This is interesting, ill patiently wait for the destruction of this argument.

Unregistered

05-29-2018, 04:11 PM

As good as Thunder Aphrodite is, she isn't broken as fuck. Unlike Light Nike.

Even with Kirin, you will NOT be sorry if you draw Light Nike.

dafuq?
That's something to say.

Unregistered

05-29-2018, 04:18 PM

This is interesting, ill patiently wait for the destruction of this argument.

Dude...+120% Atk...how can't you see the brokeness here, even the jp players are saying she's the main reason they could easily win that whatever Tower with 15 floor something (sorry idk what that Tower is but it seems to be the hardest part of the game?)

Unregistered

05-29-2018, 04:25 PM

dafuq?
That's something to say.

120% atk is already equal(or better) to having a 100% elemental eidolon. Extreme buff at its finest (3 times stronger than Svarog Awakened). She might probably even be used as support for other element, like Sol.

ThundeR~

05-29-2018, 04:27 PM

As good as Thunder Aphrodite is, she isn't broken as fuck. Unlike Light Nike.

Even with Kirin, you will NOT be sorry if you draw Light Nike.

slashley i dnt really have a vandetta against u but after this i certainly do

u cant really compare light nike to ThundeR aphro

Nike is slow af while ThundeR aphro brings utility to ThundeR plus vigor

while nike ud be dead before u pull her gimmicks off light team is already slow ur going to make it even slower nd in tower ur def not going to survive using her ud be dead before u knw it. :)

P.s

i did pull nike nd she' still in the trash can.

Unregistered

05-29-2018, 04:48 PM

slashley i dnt really have a vandetta against u but after this i certainly do

u cant really compare light nike to ThundeR aphro

Nike is slow af while ThundeR aphro brings utility to ThundeR plus vigor

while nike ud be dead before u pull her gimmicks off light team is already slow ur going to make it even slower nd in tower ur def not going to survive using her ud be dead before u knw it. :)

P.s

i did pull nike nd she' still in the trash can.

Wow wow I don't get why you're all lashing out at Slashley for just saying Light Nike is way broken compared to Thunder Aphrodite (which is the case), it's not like he said Thunder Aphrodite was useless lol. What are you? A die hard fans of Thunder who easily got triggered?

I'm not really fond of Light but that doesn't mean I'll just overlook it and trash talk it.

Slashley

05-29-2018, 05:01 PM

Hello, Discord invasion.
slashley i dnt really have a vandetta against u but after this i certainly do --You sure take "vandettas" easily. I'd hate to see what happens when somebody actually does something offensive.

Anyway. Yes, Light Nike takes time to load up. But, after she has loaded up, she is going to almost double your damage output in Light teams. How high can you realistically get in Assault on DMM so far? 180% Assault? I doubt it, but assuming so, her +120% increase is... 46% more damage output. Well fine, it's not double, but it is significantly more than the ~25% you get from P2W Eidolons.

Outside of Light teams? She's a 24% damage increase. So, even when outside of her element, Light Nike will eventually add a P2W Eidolon to your team. Added bonus, her passive adds ridiculous amounts of extra Def, so she's extremely likely to survive even though she'll be at 0% Defender.

Of course, the problem here is the "eventually." It takes 12 turns for Light Nike to set up. You're not really going to feel her effects until at around turn 5 (though fun fact, according to the calc she'll be +-0 addition to the team on turn 3, OUTSIDE of Light teams). And we haven't even mentioned her ability to allow the entire team to Full burst twice in a row. Considering how Provisional Forest is not consumed upon use, this is really, really, REALLY powerful. However, this ability comes at a cost - you need to delay the Nike train even more unless you want to be able to use this ability on like, what, turn 41? Yeah, that's not very realistic. But if you start the Nike train on turn 7, this insane amount of burst damage will be usable on turns 16 (+100%), 21, 26+. So, if you know the content, you can adjust your Nike usage appropriately.

tl;dr; in long fights, Light Nike is the absolute Queen of damage output. The longer, the better. If there is content that'll take you 10 turns, she's a P2W Eidolon even OUTSIDE of her element. That is not unrealistic. If the fight will last 21 turns, including trash, her ability to double Provisional Forest Full Burst is absolutely batshit fucking insanely powerful.

Unregistered

05-29-2018, 05:02 PM

Lol so many people got triggered when someone mentioned that a certain element they hate actually have one of the most broken skill in history. Also lmao if you can't survive a long battle with light team then your light team is trash. Let the ones who have actually a GOOD light team prove the thing.

blubbergott

05-29-2018, 05:14 PM

Also lmao if you can't survive a long battle with light team then your light team is trash.

If you need to survive a long battle to win then your light team is trash.

ThundeR~

05-29-2018, 05:24 PM

[QUOTE=Unregistered;118150]Wow wow I don't get why you're all lashing out at Slashley for just saying Light Nike is way broken compared to Thunder Aphrodite (which is the case), it's not like he said Thunder Aphrodite was useless lol. What are you? A die hard fans of Thunder who easily got triggered?

I'm not really fond of Light but that doesn't mean I'll just overlook it and trash talk it.[/QU

Fanboy or not that certainly isnt the point here mate.

ur not fond of light that's ok but yea ur overlooking it see the aw's nd himes coming out after nike she's literally trash compared to em she's tooo slow man ud really be ded by the time u pull her gimmicks off.meanwhile u get mike aw u with her u can fb 2-3 times by the time u do a single fb with light nike
Truly Disgusting tell me how i am overlooking light nd ur not

>if u cant survive with a light team ur light team is trash

......... dude stop living in the past light is way past the point of just surviving

back to ThundeR aphro how is she not better than nike when u can do 3.ox more dmg using her nd morgan especially with buffed aw tyr.

Stop comparing light nike AKA Trash with light aphro...aphro is way better

All in tatters Like Trash

Trash belongs in the Trash can.

ThundeR~

05-29-2018, 05:28 PM

ThundeR Aphro*

Unregistered

05-29-2018, 05:36 PM

If you need to survive a long battle to win then your light team is trash.

You do like to play with words don't you? Did I ever say anything about surviving = winning? Mmmh?

Unregistered

05-29-2018, 05:59 PM

Kitty

05-29-2018, 06:15 PM

not sure why Nike's light version is being shit on so much, but she's VERY useful in DMM's accessory quest rank 5, as she makes two full bursts in a row possible... rank 5's nuke literally wipes out an entire team in one go, so making her stunned guarantees the win. Nike is closest to guaranteeing that than any other. you just need to know how to use her, not that hard...
both are good kami to have in different types of battles... Nike for access quests, thunder Aphrodite for long battles such as raid ragnaroks or guild order... you can't compare the two, they're completely different... one is a healer, the other isn't..

enough arguing over it.. it's pointless, lol

Unregistered

05-29-2018, 06:49 PM

Okay guys I wanted to know something, it's about debuff limit. I know the lower limit is -50%, but can I stack it with elemental resistance up/down too? Like say SSR Baal's debuffing -30% thunder resistance and make it -80% Def? Or will it still remain -50% overall?

Bear

05-29-2018, 06:53 PM

50% hard cap

Cobblemaniac

05-29-2018, 10:06 PM

Currently sitting on 1 last awakenable hime in Ares... and she's the only fire SSR hime I have. Remaining notable fire hime are: Ragaraja, Brynhildr, Konohana, Motu(?). Should I be awakening Ares, or waiting for another awakenable hime/ going for the dragon eye weapons?

Bear

05-29-2018, 10:20 PM

...... You're crazy. 
 
 
 
 
 
You're all crazy. 
 
Thunder Aphro is THE most broken dmg buffer Thunder has to offer and you're comparing her with the easily replaced Light Nike. Just for the almost...

sandwich

05-29-2018, 10:23 PM

just use hacks

Ikki

05-29-2018, 10:46 PM

The apocalypse arrived :joy:

Currently sitting on 1 last awakenable hime in Ares... and she's the only fire SSR hime I have. Remaining notable fire hime are: Ragaraja, Brynhildr, Konohana, Motu(?). Should I be awakening Ares, or waiting for another awakenable hime/ going for the dragon eye weapons?

AW ares is one of the highest dmg dealers fire has atm, shes worth an awakening definitely, but if you are short on eyes as in only 3, maybe you could sit on them until you have close to 6, specially if you lack the mats to go all-in with her, cause if you dont plan on going all the way to 80, shes not worth it, she starts rolling only at 75+.

Cake

05-29-2018, 11:00 PM

just use hacks
Ho Ho I see what you did there

Cobblemaniac

05-30-2018, 02:31 AM

https://twitter.com/kamihimeproject/status/1000617608109088768

10203

So... apparently they did another popularity poll? I can't tell which order they were in, but hey, these are the himes who won.

Here comes the "of fucking course Sol wins" rage comments.

Tanaka5

05-30-2018, 02:48 AM

[QUOTE=ThundeR~;118154]

Lol even your argument is...I don't have a word...you just kept repeating the exact same statement without making any kind of elaboration. Well since you can't even take 10 to 15 turns to buff up then that's your problem. And it's okay it's okay just keep focusing your attention on short term battle and let the ones who specialized at long term battle do their thing. We'll see when the time comes how Light Nike do compared to your beloved Thunder Aphrodite (with the next level 5 Accessory Quest and GO).

This is what I meant by stupid unregistered trolls ruining the forum.

>Quotes Tower an example
>Doesn't know what tower is
>Acts over smart in front of a DMM player when that guy has actually seen both those himes in action and you haven't

*Sigh*

Slashley

05-30-2018, 03:47 AM

--fyi, DMM general consensus from BOTH Japanese and Chinese communities: Light Nike and Thunder Aphro are like Heaven and Earth.--Yeah, sounds about right. Because of apples and oranges.

You're comparing a Hime who is good in THUNDER only (a 15% damage increase in her own element, though practically higher due to using the 35% increase for your high damage turns), against a Hime who is good in ANY element (24% increase) and absolutely broken in her own element (46% increase). I think it's rather clear that Light Nike is broken as fuck. That doesn't mean that Thunder Aphrodite is bad, it just means that she is entirely outclassed by Light Nike, as very, very few Hime can go into off-element teams and actually bring forth a significant damage increase.

If Light Nike isn't an auto-include in your teams (like, literally ALL of your teams!) then it's not a problem with Light Nike. It's a problem with content. Of course, there's a fair chance that we'll never get content where Light Nike can shine. Thus, you can make the argument that Light Nike is practically bad because of this, and feel free to do so. But again, that doesn't make Light Nike objectively bad. Well, against content that Dispels you she might be, that's true. Nutaku hasn't had such content so that didn't cross my mind.

Every single one of the other Hime you mentioned are probably going to be replaced sooner or later. Yes, even Thunder Aphrodite. However, unless DMM introduces weapons which give you like 50% Assault per slot or P2W Eidolons with 150%+ Character Attack, Light Nike will never grow any weaker. This is rather unlikely, and as such, Light Nike should absolutely dominate her niche in Kamihime forever. Is that niche ever going to be a thing? Hard to tell. But it is fully possible, and as such, you shouldn't undersell one the most powerful Hime the game has to date.

The bottom line is, anyone who doesn't have 100% perfect teams in all elements will be happy to draw Light Nike over Thunder Aphrodite (and that is what the context of this originally was). And for those bottomless whales who do have those teams, it won't even matter since they can just keep drawing.
--And before you say vigor requires high hp to work, you know what else Thunder is good at? DEFENSE. They are the -best- when it comes to dmg mitigation even with the lack of heals.--Would you mind elaborating at this?

Since really, out of all Thunder Hime, this seems to fit a whopping two: Brahma (self-only, incredible 5/6 turns uptime) and Raiko (team-wide, 1/6 turns uptime). Oh, and Athena against Water (team-wide, 1/5 turns uptime). Sure, many of Thunder Hime have self-heals, but even in today's content the ~1500 heal just isn't sufficient to keep shit healthy.
Con: Takes very long to start up. Completely useless against enemies that dispel.Also curious about this. When we get to Dispel stuff, we Dispel only one stack a time (I'm looking at you, Rahab). Do enemy Dispels clear out Light Nike's entire stack?

Also, I wouldn't say that she's "completely useless" even against Dispelling content. That double Full Burst is still extremely powerful, especially if you build around it. But it does take the wind out of Light Nike's sails. A double Full Burst doesn't make her worthy of bringing outside of her element, that's for sure.

Cobblemaniac

05-30-2018, 03:59 AM

Do enemy Dispels clear out Light Nike's entire stack?

I'd wager that her stackable frame atk buff is about the same frame as the stackable burst dmg ups we see in existing himes like Uriel and Metatron (aka, stacking frame), and it at least looks to me that it's simply an addition to the buff, therefore is treated as a single buff, which means one cleanse eats up the whole thing. Provided all of the above is true.

Rahab's buff is a different story, her atk ups are on separate frames, not stacking frames.

Mirage

05-30-2018, 04:35 AM

You're comparing a Hime who is good in THUNDER only (a 15% damage increase in her own element, though practically higher due to using the 35% increase for your high damage turns), against a Hime who is good in ANY element (24% increase) and absolutely broken in her own element (46% increase). I think it's rather clear that Light Nike is broken as fuck. That doesn't mean that Thunder Aphrodite is bad, it just means that she is entirely outclassed by Light Nike, as very, very few Hime can go into off-element teams and actually bring forth a significant damage increase.

Mind explaining how it Aphro is THUNDER ONLY? Coz her vigor buff is a flat multiplier that work with ANYTHING.
Also spare me of that "ANY element bullshit", you are completely ignoring the fact that Off-element Nike is unlikely to last more than 2 turns in any content that her buff might matter (She consumes tokens almost as fast as she generate them so the Def+ passive is pretty much meaningless). Heck even bring off element Hime is endgame content is retarded to begin with.
Is Nike good in a Light team? Definitely, but again, to long to set up and Nike herself is very slow and will hinder the speed of the entire team. Calling her a bad light hime is unfair, but outmeta is definitely the word.

Every single one of the other Hime you mentioned are probably going to be replaced sooner or later. Yes, even Thunder Aphrodite. However, unless DMM introduces weapons which give you like 50% Assault per slot or P2W Eidolons with 150%+ Character Attack, Light Nike will never grow any weaker. This is rather unlikely, and as such, Light Nike should absolutely dominate her niche in Kamihime forever. Is that niche ever going to be a thing? Hard to tell. But it is fully possible, and as such, you shouldn't undersell one the most powerful Hime the game has to date.

Well maybe those hime will be replaced, maybe not, we dont know yet. What we do know is Nike's alternatives are already here as Bear has pointed out.

The bottom line is, anyone who doesn't have 100% perfect teams in all elements will be happy to draw Light Nike over Thunder Aphrodite (and that is what the context of this originally was). And for those bottomless whales who do have those teams, it won't even matter since they can just keep drawing.

Again, spare me of that off-element bullshit. The dev tried to make that happen with SSR Diabolos before.

Would you mind elaborating at this?
Since really, out of all Thunder Hime, this seems to fit a whopping two: Brahma (self-only, incredible 5/6 turns uptime) and Raiko (team-wide, 1/6 turns uptime). Oh, and Athena against Water (team-wide, 1/5 turns uptime). Sure, many of Thunder Hime have self-heals, but even in today's content the ~1500 heal just isn't sufficient to keep shit healthy.

How about Thunder Ryu 5/9 turn WaterRes+regen and 2turns cd heal, and Aphro herself. All those combines with self-heal is more than enough.

Also curious about this. When we get to Dispel stuff, we Dispel only one stack a time (I'm looking at you, Rahab). Do enemy Dispels clear out Light Nike's entire stack?

Also, I wouldn't say that she's "completely useless" even against Dispelling content. That double Full Burst is still extremely powerful, especially if you build around it. But it does take the wind out of Light Nike's sails. A double Full Burst doesn't make her worthy of bringing outside of her element, that's for sure.

Amulet stack is considered a buff too, which mean it can be dispell as well, so no saving 7 amulets for double FB either.

Unregistered

05-30-2018, 04:40 AM

If Light Nike isn't an auto-include in your teams (like, literally ALL of your teams!) then it's not a problem with Light Nike. It's a problem with content. Of course, there's a fair chance that we'll never get content where Light Nike can shine. Thus, you can make the argument that Light Nike is practically bad because of this, and feel free to do so. But again, that doesn't make Light Nike objectively bad. Well, against content that Dispels you she might be, that's true. Nutaku hasn't had such content so that didn't cross my mind.
But content is our context. If a hime looks great on paper but there's no content where she can bring a significant improvement in clear speed or reliability, is she really that great? Himes are tools. Do you judge a hammer by how pretty it looks?

Demon Envy could dispel debuffs, I believe.

Unregistered

05-30-2018, 04:42 AM

Demon Envy could dispel debuffs, I believe.
*Err, dispel buffs.

nonsensei

05-30-2018, 05:06 AM

I think the points were made from both sides, and the result seems pretty clear, so I will just leave this here in case a certain someone wants to go on.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/407618465508098049.png?v=1

Cobblemaniac

05-30-2018, 06:14 AM

Slashley

05-30-2018, 08:15 AM

Mind explaining how it Aphro is THUNDER ONLY? Coz her vigor buff is a flat multiplier that work with ANYTHING.Yes, yes it does. But just like Light Nike herself won't do any damage outside of Light teams, Thunder Aphrodite herself won't do any damage outside of Thunder builds.

Thunder Aphrodite's Vigor buff will still hand out 35% outside of Thunder, yes. Her heals and Barrier will perform just as well in other teams as well. But not only is she weak to Wind, her uptime on her buff is fairly poor. If she had 100% uptime, then she'd be a 9% damage increase off-element. Is that worth it? Yeah, sure. Heals + damage output, sounds good. But, because it's not 100% uptime, she ends up being ~7% damage decrease. Again, you can use her Vigor buff for your high damage turns, so you might end up at +-0% loss/gain from her (much like how off-element SR Beelz is). That is, if you can guarantee to be at 100% HP for those big damage turns.
tl;dr; CAN you use Thunder Aphrodite off-element? Yes, yes you can. She's nothing special, but if you don't have a healer in that element, AND you can ensure that you'll stay at 100% HP, AND you're not against Wind, you won't lose any damage output from using her. That makes her better to use than off-element Sol for some content (Sol heals for far more, but you'll take a big hit to your damage output).

Similarly, Light Nike's team-wide damage output drops from 46% to 24% when she's off-element. Because losing 1/5th of your team is THAT big of a deal. However, the 4 on-element Hime will still deal 46% extra damage each - thus easily outperforming the loss of the fifth party member (unless you hit damage cap) - and you'll do 24% extra damage overall. Thus, once Light Nike is at full speed, she's literally an extra P2W Eidolon for any element. Which brings us to this:
Also spare me of that "ANY element bullshit", you are completely ignoring the fact that Off-element Nike is unlikely to last more than 2 turns in any content that her buff might matter (She consumes tokens almost as fast as she generate them so the Def+ passive is pretty much meaningless). Heck even bring off element Hime is endgame content is retarded to begin with.And you see, this is how OP she is. We're talking about OFF-ELEMENT here. Most of my arguments have been for OFF-ELEMENT. Why? Because when it comes to Light teams, nothing even comes close to Light Nike's potential. Of course, again, there's the catch. Light Nike needs time to wind up. If the content doesn't allow this, then it is meaningless. Thus:
But content is our context. If a hime looks great on paper but there's no content where she can bring a significant improvement in clear speed or reliability, is she really that great?--As I said, this is a fair argument. But, just because it is a fair argument, doesn't mean that you should brush off a Hime whose potential is equal to finding Belial, Rudra, Kirin, Anubis and... Hanuman (since Hraes' OP on-use won't be a fair comparison) in a single pull. Not to mention something far, far stronger than Managarmr. This potential might only apply to a magical fantasy land that doesn't exist, but one day, it might. As such... again, don't undersell one the most powerful Hime the game has to date.
How about Thunder Ryu 5/9 turn WaterRes+regen and 2turns cd heal, and Aphro herself. All those combines with self-heal is more than enough.Also limited, but fair enough. If you're going to run double healers though, why not bring Diancecht? Well, she is released months later than Thunder Aphrodite, but still.
Amulet stack is considered a buff too, which mean it can be dispell as well, so no saving 7 amulets for double FB either.Ouch. That's quite nasty. That means that Light Nike truly is utterly crippled by content which Dispels.

Cake

05-30-2018, 08:21 AM

Yes, yes it does. But just like Light Nike herself won't do any damage outside of Light teams, Thunder Aphrodite herself won't do any damage outside of Thunder builds.

Thunder Aphrodite's Vigor buff will still hand out 35% outside of Thunder, yes. Her heals and Barrier will perform just as well in other teams as well. But not only is she weak to Wind, her uptime on her buff is fairly poor. If she had 100% uptime, then she'd be a 9% damage increase off-element. Is that worth it? Yeah, sure. Heals + damage output, sounds good. But, because it's not 100% uptime, she ends up being ~7% damage decrease. Again, you can use her Vigor buff for your high damage turns, so you might end up at +-0% loss/gain from her (much like how off-element SR Beelz is). That is, if you can guarantee to be at 100% HP for those big damage turns.
tl;dr; CAN you use Thunder Aphrodite off-element? Yes, yes you can. She's nothing special, but if you don't have a healer in that element, AND you can ensure that you'll stay at 100% HP, AND you're not against Wind, you won't lose any damage output from using her. That makes her better to use than off-element Sol for some content (Sol heals for far more, but you'll take a big hit to your damage output).

Similarly, Light Nike's team-wide damage output drops from 46% to 24% when she's off-element. Because losing 1/5th of your team is THAT big of a deal. However, the 4 on-element Hime will still deal 46% extra damage each - thus easily outperforming the loss of the fifth party member (unless you hit damage cap) - and you'll do 24% extra damage overall. Thus, once Light Nike is at full speed, she's literally an extra P2W Eidolon for any element. Which brings us to this:And you see, this is how OP she is. We're talking about OFF-ELEMENT here. Most of my arguments have been for OFF-ELEMENT. Why? Because when it comes to Light teams, nothing even comes close to Light Nike's potential. Of course, again, there's the catch. Light Nike needs time to wind up. If the content doesn't allow this, then it is meaningless. Thus:As I said, this is a fair argument. But, just because it is a fair argument, doesn't mean that you should brush off a Hime whose potential is equal to finding Belial, Rudra, Kirin, Anubis and... Hanuman (since Hraes' OP on-use won't be a fair comparison) in a single pull. Not to mention something far, far stronger than Managarmr. This potential might only apply to a magical fantasy land that doesn't exist, but one day, it might. As such... again, don't undersell one the most powerful Hime the game has to date.Also limited, but fair enough. If you're going to run double healers though, why not bring Diancecht? Well, she is released months later than Thunder Aphrodite, but still.Ouch. That's quite nasty. That means that Light Nike truly is utterly crippled by content which Dispels.

I wanna see you despair so bad when you whale for Nike and regret whaling for her cause ........................

Slashley

05-30-2018, 09:15 AM

The only Hime I will ever whale for is Karin, and I seriously doubt I'll spend for her this year. The chances of landing it will be just be far too low.

Cake

05-30-2018, 09:23 AM

Aren't you going to use Light Nike off-element? Whale for her and despair.

nonsensei

05-30-2018, 09:27 AM

Light Nike's team-wide damage output drops from 46% to 24% when she's off-element.

It's been bugging me for a while, but where exactly do you get these numbers from? (I know, from the all-praised toolbox, so the question turns to how you get them.)
Unlike Aphro's vigor buff, which is a straight multiplier to your dmg, Nike's buff goes to assault bracket, so the performance highly depends on what grid you use, what eidos you use & what buffs you got in-battle. These will obviously change through time, so I don't really see how you even get these numbers, in fact it feels like you just throw random values.

DMM meta is going fast & going hard. A slowly up-building buff barely has any use in that. And that's all what Nike really does, or alternatively go for 2nd full burst aaaaat.. what? The 11th turn? Well, wow. Meta light team already bursted two times at least by then and getting ready for the 3rd. Nike certainly looks nice if you have a look at her alone. But the thing is that she just simply doesn't fit to light team with Michael AW and co.

As for off-element stuff.. no, I won't even bother. Who are we kidding even? Just nope.

Slashley

05-30-2018, 10:04 AM

It's been bugging me for a while, but where exactly do you get these numbers from? (I know, from the all-praised toolbox, so the question turns to how you get them.)I did say it in one of the posts, the first one that started listing numbers. That's assuming 180% Assault grid, so 10x FLB Assault weapons averaging at 3% base each. Chances are you're using 9x, since Relic weapons, so 5x 6% base FLBs and 4x 0% FLBs for example. If your grid is less than 180%, then Light Nike numbers are even higher. I've been trying to purposedly trying rig the numbers AGAINST Light Nike (as I doubt that 180% Assault is realistic outside of whales, though 189% is the max as far as I know), but maybe you can tell me if I succeeded in that or not.

Because yes. 120% Assault is absolutely absurdly high number and will boost your damage output past the heavens. Want to confirm that?
Play around in Sanathlig's Const Effects calculator. Technically, my damage calc (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PhfOAQk6EyK5l33ux_C4T-cexVIQp6D-_Hbd-OO1OmQ/edit#gid=39423565) can also do it, but since it doesn't have a comparison, I doubt it'll be as illuminative.
--so the performance highly depends on -- what eidos you use & what buffs you got in-battle.--Umm, no. Eidolons won't have any effect, because Character Attack Eidolons can be outright disregarded when Light Nike comes into question. Again, on the caveat that DMM won't introduce 150%+ Character Attack P2W Eidolons. When you don't need to choose between two different modifiers, all you need to do is compare the same modifier before and after. 180% Assault vs. 300% Assault? 43% increase.
... oh shit, that's not 46%. Oh well, close enough.

Buffs? Well, that CAN affect it, true. But... uh. Not by much. At least, I doubt it. Buffs in Kamihime tend to be rather weak, though some self-buffer Hime are very powerful. I think the closest one would be Svarog, but even she shouldn't really throw those numbers horrendously off. Prove me wrong?
DMM meta is going fast & going hard. A slowly up-building buff barely has any use in that. And that's all what Nike really does, or alternatively go for 2nd full burst aaaaat.. what? The 11th turn? Well, wow. Meta light team already bursted two times at least by then and getting ready for the 3rd. Nike certainly looks nice if you have a look at her alone. But the thing is that she just simply doesn't fit to light team with Michael AW and co.And that's all fine and all. But it won't compare to the damage output that Nike will help them reach - in a long fight. If there's no need for a long fight? Fair enough.

Cake

05-30-2018, 10:17 AM

Did you get your brain replaced with your benis or what?

nonsensei

05-30-2018, 10:19 AM

So it all comes down to that you hype this unit for its potential which will probably never gonna be able to shine, judging from the content of past more than 2 years.
Hmm... I feel enlightened.

Tanaka5

05-30-2018, 10:21 AM

@nonsensei

Yamete.

There is no cure for stupidity. I was thinking of refuting his points too considering that I will be saving for that Gacha myself (But for Thunder Aphro and not Light Nike despite Light being my preferred element over Thunder). But when he compared them to 100% Eidos and said Light Nike > Managarmr, I gave up.

When you add ignorance to stupidity, it gets worse.

Dakara...yamete kudasai.

Ikki

05-30-2018, 10:23 AM

So the general consensus is that light nike is trash except in slashley's perfect invented scenarios, fair enough, called it, lets make up scenarios to make light nike look good then.

Unregistered

05-30-2018, 10:46 AM

From that new year's batch next year with thunder Aphrodite and light Nike, I'm the only one who's more excited for SR Konohana Sakuya, huh? (granted, I operate under the assumption of not rolling SSRs...)

10203

So... apparently they did another popularity poll? I can't tell which order they were in, but hey, these are the himes who won.

Here comes the "of fucking course Sol wins" rage comments.

Oh, yea, remember the anniversary event? 2nd anniversary works similarly to the 1st, so there's another poll. The selected kamihime for this pickup campaign aren't necessarily the top ranked girls from that poll though.

Shamash placed #3 in SSR.
Nike placed #4 in SR. (though the pickup is light Nike)
Kingu placed #3 in SR.
Astaroth placed #11 in R.

Gaia placed #8 in SSR.
Pluto placed #14 in SSR.
Ramiel placed #11 in SR. (though the pickup is wind Ramiel I think)
Aten placed #10 in R.

Berith placed #18 in SSR.
Svarog placed #16 in SSR.
Jehuty placed #6 in SR.
Boreas placed #2 in R.

Amon placed #5 in SR. (though the pickup is maid Amon)
Sol placed #1 in SSR.
Hypnos placed #2 in SR.
Perun placed #7 in R.

Huh, speaking of their twitter, nice, their next event is Mastema reprint. Farming up the staff wasn't a complete waste of time, yay.

Kimoi

05-30-2018, 11:04 AM

Unregistered

05-30-2018, 11:16 AM

Unregistered

05-30-2018, 12:17 PM

Actually, yea, dark Kushinada is neat too. Shouldn't be too hard to pick her up though. Tricky part here is being willing to hoard enough jewels to ensure a few shots at that gacha, especially since I'll want a few shots at thunder Nyarlathotep the month before, as well as Zhao Yun right before that batch.

Don't forget SSR Bastet (=10% defender and 5% assault for party as assist)

Well, last week you argued about Chernobog and Hades. Now it's about Light Nike and Thunder Aphrodite :p

MagicSpice

05-30-2018, 07:53 PM

Don't forget SSR Bastet (=10% defender and 5% assault for party as assist)

limited SSR I believe though...

even if she isn't, SSR are rather hard to pinpoint unless it's the Sol gacha or miracle tickets (and you probably shouldn't go out of your way to get SSR bastet unless she's your waifu or something)

Laventale

05-30-2018, 08:12 PM

limited SSR I believe though...

even if she isn't, SSR are rather hard to pinpoint unless it's the Sol gacha or miracle tickets (and you probably shouldn't go out of your way to get SSR bastet unless she's your waifu or something)

ye, Bastet SSR is limited.

Unregistered

05-31-2018, 01:38 AM

MagicSpice

05-31-2018, 12:32 PM

Dude, Thunder Aphrodite and Light Nike are limited too.
So why should I list a non-limited SSR, my friend?

so more people aren't like me and regret missing out on SSR like Fire Sol and Dark Amaterasu?

it's all fine and good to mention overpowered characters (i honestly want light nike myself, who might get some mileage out of the future rag raids), but naturally, tons aren't gonna get access to them.

it's like saying "hey, Dark Amaterasu does so much for this team!" but no one can get her now... there's not much point when it comes to limited units since most people can't whale on them nor try again later

Unregistered

05-31-2018, 12:52 PM

MagicSpice

05-31-2018, 03:24 PM

Ok, so he brought up SSR Bastet in response to me, because I was saying 'oh, the tough part here would be saving up jewels to try for Zhao Yun, then thunder Nyar, then SR Konohana Sakuya', which is another way of saying I need to hoard up jewels for 3 successive limited gacha sets.
SSR Bastet is then brought up, because the next limited set after new year's is the valentine's set, with SSR Bastet/fire Ame no Uzume/thunder Dike. It's a completely natural response to bring up.

that just further proves the whole "most people can't go after limited kami" statement i made....

unless you get super lucky, you're probably not getting more than 1 SSR off all that... if you can even pull that much cause magic jewel rates legit seem lower than the premium stuff, but maybe that's just me

AznSamsung

05-31-2018, 04:00 PM

Thats y i am saving all my jewels on them to see if its true or not

MagicSpice

05-31-2018, 09:27 PM

Thats y i am saving all my jewels on them to see if its true or not

well, if the calculators are anything to go by, you'll need over 20k jewels to get a specific SSR.... i still doubt you have to go that far, but 12k+ does sound typical before an SSR appears

enjoy.... you're gonna need luck to pull your targets off...

BlazeAlter

05-31-2018, 09:39 PM

well, if the calculators are anything to go by, you'll need over 20k jewels to get a specific SSR.... i still doubt you have to go that far, but 12k+ does sound typical before an SSR appears

enjoy.... you're gonna need luck to pull your targets off...

RNG is a troll at times I'm sure

it took me like 20k jewels to get Pluto but before that I experienced 3 other rainbow screens

while others only took 3k or 6k, or maybe even more than I did
or worse, got nothing

20k-30k or more than that could be a... safe number to get a certain SSR maybe?

MagicSpice

05-31-2018, 10:01 PM

RNG is a troll at times I'm sure

it took me like 20k jewels to get Pluto but before that I experienced 3 other rainbow screens

while others only took 3k or 6k, or maybe even more than I did
or worse, got nothing

20k-30k or more than that could be a... safe number to get a certain SSR maybe?

unless it's like that Sol exclusive Gacha, which i hope is done with other kamihime at some point...

Cobblemaniac

05-31-2018, 10:01 PM

RNG is a troll at times I'm sure

it took me like 20k jewels to get Pluto but before that I experienced 3 other rainbow screens

while others only took 3k or 6k, or maybe even more than I did
or worse, got nothing

20k-30k or more than that could be a... safe number to get a certain SSR maybe?

Well then RNG trolled me really hard. A 30k roll on Rudra day and I didn't get no Rudra (well, can't expect that tbh) or Asherah (god dammit).

BlazeAlter

05-31-2018, 10:15 PM

unless it's like that Sol exclusive Gacha, which i hope is done with other kamihime at some point...

I guess they might with some other popular himes?
Or maybe they'll make it exclusive to himes with awakenings (can't remember but I think I saw some gacha promo on DMM twitter with odin's face on it, might be an odin exclusive gacha but im not sure)

Well then RNG trolled me really hard. A 30k roll on Rudra day and I didn't get no Rudra (well, can't expect that tbh) or Asherah (god dammit).

ouch.. i can understand Rudra but you should've gotten at least Asherah with that amount

Mraktar

05-31-2018, 11:11 PM

RNG is a troll at times I'm sure

it took me like 20k jewels to get Pluto but before that I experienced 3 other rainbow screens

while others only took 3k or 6k, or maybe even more than I did
or worse, got nothing

20k-30k or more than that could be a... safe number to get a certain SSR maybe?

Are you making single jewel pulls or 10 chain for specific SSR? I'm interesting because Seth is next and i have almost 20k jewels+ 50 premium tickets.

Thallen

05-31-2018, 11:19 PM

So I was curious: I have a 9k jewel stockpile and I was planning on storing it until the Fire Metatron limited gacha, but is she really worth it? Or should I try to wait for whenever midsummer stuffs rolls back around?

Speaking of which: when is midsummer event returning? Will midsummer Sol be a thing again? Thanks for any input!

BlazeAlter

05-31-2018, 11:20 PM

Are you making single jewel pulls or 10 chain for specific SSR? I'm interesting because Seth is next and i have almost 20k jewels+ 50 premium tickets.

I did 10-chain pulls for Pluto, since I consider single jewel pulls too risky (plus 10 chains always give u that guaranteed SR ball which could be a new SR hime at least while single pulls don't guarantee you anything)
but its up to you really... though I wish you luck when you try for Seth with whatever amount and tickets you have saved up, plus you'd get an extra 10 pull +20 tickets or so from completing amaru's raid

FreeToPay

06-01-2018, 12:25 AM

Got a rainbow screen on my first pull and got Archangel. 4 10 pulls later and I still don't have a single light SR. Wtf am I cursed?

10216

Amak

06-01-2018, 01:16 AM

Question: Do the new twice-a-day Gold/Gem quest thing replace the current 30 minute specific time Gem Quests? (meaning bye-bye to the endless gem farming)?

Ikki

06-01-2018, 03:40 AM

Question: Do the new twice-a-day Gold/Gem quest thing replace the current 30 minute specific time Gem Quests? (meaning bye-bye to the endless gem farming)?

No, they are fixed bonus runs.

Mraktar

06-01-2018, 03:44 AM

Question: Do the new twice-a-day Gold/Gem quest thing replace the current 30 minute specific time Gem Quests? (meaning bye-bye to the endless gem farming)?

it's a different quest, just 2 more runs anytime. I'm waiting so much DMM gem gacha with no white garbage and 1+15 x10 runs per day so you don't need to grind a gems because those 2 missions already give you 13 k from 15 needed.

Unregistered

06-01-2018, 04:24 AM

The question is whether that reduces the amount of +1s you can get though.

Cobblemaniac

06-01-2018, 05:07 AM

The question is whether that reduces the amount of +1s you can get though.

+1s from gemcha only come from R stuff, so the question then directs to if the number of R weapons/eidolons you can pull is reduced... but I don't have the drop rates.

I'm kinda questioning whether I can sustain some patience and pull the fuck out of 1 pull gemcha in the future...

Unregistered

06-01-2018, 07:07 AM

did they add something to the daiy log in rewards?

funny how something i see everyday i cant even remember

Cobblemaniac

06-01-2018, 07:12 AM

did they add something to the daiy log in rewards?

funny how something i see everyday i cant even remember

They didn't, as far as I can tell. All they did was reskin some of the item backgrounds, like gold for premium ticket and jewels, bronze for gems, etc.

Slashley

06-01-2018, 07:14 AM

The question is whether that reduces the amount of +1s you can get though.DMM patch notes specifically said this (no idea why some charactes are breaking here, but it's under 2018/03/30 patch notes, second + mark):
【調整方針について】
今回の変更によりガチャを1日に引け� ��回数は減少しておりますが、
レアリティ「R」のウェポン、ハーフ� ��リクサー、エナジーシードについて
1日の総獲得数に影響の無いように排� ��率を調整させていただいております。
また、ボーナスポイント付きの装備� �排出される確率についても
同様に調整をさせていただいており� �す。Which roughly translates into:
Concerning changes in gacha
With these changes, the amount of pulls a player can do each day has been reduced, however, the rarity of R weapon, half-elixir, energy seeds drop-rates have been adjusted so that there would be no change. Also, equipment that gives bonus points has been adjusted in the same way.I have no idea why they said "equipment" (装備) for the bonus points, I assume that's just shorthand to include both weapons and Eidolons.
EDIT: Oh hey, レアリティ is rarity, not reality. My bad.

tl;dr; there should be no change in drop rates for anything that you care about. Assuming DMM did the maths right.

Speaking of maths... in the name of truth, I think there's something that I need to address since it seems apparent that nobody else picked it up.

--
As for off-element stuff.. no, I won't even bother. Who are we kidding even? Just nope.
There is no cure for stupidity. I was thinking of refuting his points too considering that I will be saving for that Gacha myself (But for Thunder Aphro and not Light Nike despite Light being my preferred element over Thunder). But when he compared them to 100% Eidos and said Light Nike > Managarmr, I gave up.

When you add ignorance to stupidity, it gets worse.Maths don't lie, mates. Don't like it? Prove it wrong.

Which honestly shouldn't have been difficult. Since people who use maths do lie. In other words, this:
Outside of Light teams? She's a 24% damage increase. So, even when outside of her element, Light Nike will eventually add a P2W Eidolon to your team.Was bullshit! :smirk:

While Light Nike is stronger than on-element Hime, the actual number is lower. Around 14% is more correct - still a substantial upgrade over any on-element Hime, but not quite P2W Eidolon level.

So, let's go over that 14%.
Light Nike brings 180% Assault to 300% Assault, so 4 (100% base + Light Nike's buff + weapons) / 2.8 (100% base + weapons) = ~1.428
Because we can disregard Light Nike doing ANY damage off-element, you have 4 Hime (well, 3 Hime + Soul) dealing damage. So 4 Hime * 1.428 = 5.714 damage output.
5.714 / 5 (which would be the normal amount of damage you'd get with five on-element Hime) = 1.142
Thus, ~14% increase. Of course, we have to remember that at the very earliest, this applies on turn 11. Content doesn't take you that long? Don't bring Light Nike.

Of course, this number can be mathematically challenged fairly easily. For example, this calculation entirely ignores damage caps (pre-Light Nike 700k burst hitters would hit damage cap with Light Nike) or damage skills used by the potential fifth party member. Please do challenge it - I'd love to go through the subject more thoroughly.

But I'm not expecting much. It is truly sad that there are pretty much no more mathematically inclined people left.

This has annoyed me for a long time, for example when I said that at... uh, was it 84 AP? You hit the point where you can infinitely pot for Gem Quests and get your pots back. I did those maths very quickly, very poorly and with assumptions I shouldn't have made. I thought that people would call me out and ask how I reached that conclusion - but nobody did. People just took it for gospel. So is 84 AP the right number? I don't know. My pot count seems to be going up when I'm not spending them outside of Gem Quests, so the number should be below 107 AP. As such, I don't really care.

Mraktar

06-01-2018, 07:37 AM

The question is whether that reduces the amount of +1s you can get though.

i guess that you will have even more +1 in new gacha (+1 eydo - definitely much more)

Mraktar

06-01-2018, 07:38 AM

+1s from gemcha only come from R stuff, so the question then directs to if the number of R weapons/eidolons you can pull is reduced... but I don't have the drop rates.

I'm kinda questioning whether I can sustain some patience and pull the fuck out of 1 pull gemcha in the future...

No, exp fodder weapons/eydos can be +1 in new gacha too.

Cobblemaniac

06-01-2018, 07:46 AM

Compress

Reality is... likely rarity in our english version, if the patterns I've seen from reading the gacha pages are correct.

Now, I don't know if the light Nike vs thunder Aphro argument is still ongoing. But do allow me to simply say this:

Light Nike advocates are constantly coming up with evidence to support light Nike. Thunder Aphro advocates are constantly coming up with evidence to support thunder Aphro. Both sides need to chill, and actually weigh things neutrally without feeding their own confirmation bias too much. I take no sides, but some of you guys are getting too riled up about this.

No, exp fodder weapons/eydos can be +1 in new gacha too.

Well technically they're R stuff too :neutral:

I guess I forgot to include the SR fodder.

Edit: Oh, and btw... editing your posts instead of double posting helps clean up the forum threads a bit more. Just a little extra PSA.

blubbergott

06-01-2018, 09:06 AM

But I'm not expecting much. It is truly sad that there are pretty much no more mathematically inclined people left.

This has annoyed me for a long time, for example when I said that at... uh, was it 84 AP? You hit the point where you can infinitely pot for Gem Quests and get your pots back. I did those maths very quickly, very poorly and with assumptions I shouldn't have made. I thought that people would call me out and ask how I reached that conclusion - but nobody did. People just took it for gospel. So is 84 AP the right number? I don't know. My pot count seems to be going up when I'm not spending them outside of Gem Quests, so the number should be below 107 AP. As such, I don't really care.

What's with that assumption? I'm definitely a mathematically inclined person, I just don't care if you pull any numbers out of your ass. It was obvious that you only made assumptions, how could you have a good enough sample size for a precise number? Furthermore who cares about the exact cut point? Even if you're below it, spending HE on it is worth it as long as you have enough to manage advents (and there are a lot of things factoring into if that's the case). I love theorycrafting, but pointless theorycrafting is just a waste of time.

Maths don't lie, mates. Don't like it? Prove it wrong.

Yes, maths don't lie, but your base assumptions are entirely wrong. You're assuming that the KH that would replace Nike contributes nothing at all to the team besides plain autohitting. From my point of view, a current dmm light team will always consist of: Michael, Metatron and most likely SSArty. That means Nike would be competing for the 4th slot against Take (way more damage than Nike would be doing outside of her assault buff + ~1m added to each burst), Tsuku (5% more def down, Nuke and blind) and maybe Sol if you really need heal/cleanse/dispel. And that's the thing, it's near impossible to just compare the damage/utility any of these adds to the assault Nike adds. It's definitely completely wrong to completely ignore it the way you did.

Lastly: For everything you assumed perfect scenario of endless fights. Is it possible that Nike outperforms the 3 mentioned above on long fights? Absolutely, though by far less than your calculations suggest. But that's an extremely rare situation. Almost nothing takes 12 turns to kill once you got a strong team for said element. Ea is by far the best solution for stun punisher fire situations. Those also don't really exist right now, but you wouldn't call her the "strongest hime in the game" just because she excells in one redundant thing, that would be ridiculous. If something is strong on paper, but has no use currently, it's still useless.

Ikki

06-01-2018, 11:10 AM

Maths don't lie, mates. Don't like it? Prove it wrong.

They didnt attack your maths, they attacked nike's practical uses, which led to nike being useful only on GO/AQ5 where she can get to the point where your maths actually apply.

If dmm releases a hime that can deal 20M damage after 20 turns, on paper? shes amazing holy shit 20M dmg top tier stuff, practical use? garbage, this is the case of nike, you need to stop seeing things on paper and analize the practical use of stuff, there are no light mains on dmm that bother with nike at all, they are all dumb then cause they cant see the OPness of nike like you do? or they actually know shes garbage when things matter and not "on paper"? every one of them is wrong except you? please, get off your high horse.

This is the same damn thing that happened when you said that SSR baal wasnt amazing (even tho shes in every single top tier thunder team in dmm), and now with nike, no one bothers with her cause her "practical use" is trash, idc if a hime can increase my dmg a lot in 11 turns, i need frontloaded damage im not gonna reduce my dmg output waiting 11 turns on purpose just to make nike useful, thats retarded, this leads to the questions:

-Is this hime great in all content? if yes, this hime is top tier (thunder aphro belongs here just so you know nike and aphro aren't at the same lvl)
-Is this hime NEEDED only on specific content? if yes, this hime is situational
-You dont NEED this hime in any content?, then this hime is trash (this is where nike belongs)

Then you are gonna ask me why is nike trash? simple, her uses are only GO and AQ5, do you really need her to clear that content? ofc not, you dont need her, shes disposable, no light main bothers with her, if you really need light nike to clear content like that, then your grid and teams are garbage.

So all comes down to nike PRACTICAL USE, not on paper (you love to do this), 120% assault and double FB (oh great this hime is insane) .... after 11 turns (nvm, trash, bye), this is nike in a nutshell, oh and before you say that speed is not really needed and it only matters to clear the content, by being slow (aka taking many turns) on tower, you lose points, so yeah, gl using nike being a snail and getting a shit rank because of that.

Mirage

06-01-2018, 11:31 AM

Was bullshit!

While Light Nike is stronger than on-element Hime, the actual number is lower. Around 14% is more correct - still a substantial upgrade over any on-element Hime, but not quite P2W Eidolon level.

So, let's go over that 14%.
Light Nike brings 180% Assault to 300% Assault, so 4 (100% base + Light Nike's buff + weapons) / 2.8 (100% base + weapons) = ~1.428
Because we can disregard Light Nike doing ANY damage off-element, you have 4 Hime (well, 3 Hime + Soul) dealing damage. So 4 Hime * 1.428 = 5.714 damage output.
5.714 / 5 (which would be the normal amount of damage you'd get with five on-element Hime) = 1.142
Thus, ~14% increase. Of course, we have to remember that at the very earliest, this applies on turn 11. Content doesn't take you that long? Don't bring Light Nike.

Of course, this number can be mathematically challenged fairly easily. For example, this calculation entirely ignores damage caps (pre-Light Nike 700k burst hitters would hit damage cap with Light Nike) or damage skills used by the potential fifth party member. Please do challenge it - I'd love to go through the subject more thoroughly.

Okay if we ignore the fact that her buff takes 11 turns to kick in, that's 14% damage increase over on-element Hime. Nothing seems wrong, except the fact that it assumes the Hime replaced by Light Nike will just auto-attack without any skill or passive.
Let's take example, with Dark team, since Dark is probably the weakest in damage, and slowest burst ATM: A ideal team will probably be: Hero+Satan/AmonU/Thanatos/Samael+Pluto+1 strong attacker (Let's take Chernobog in this case)+Wild card.

If that wild card is L.Nike: 14% increase.
If it's anything else, which ideally will be a second attacker, we have: Berith (Counter, a faster and stronger self stackable atk buff, berserk), Susanoo(again faster, stronger stack, strong nuke), Kali (Pride-based atk and DATA buff), Agalia (Strong crit buff). All of these easily provide more than a mere 14%, u dont need to be a math genius to see this, people have prove this by actually using them.
Same case for other element, an on-element will always bring more damage than Nike can (with maybe extra ultility as well), so even if we ignore the fact that off-element Nike can hardly last more than 3 turns in endgame content, the ided of bringing her for the extra damage is just retarded.
Now back to Light

Because when it comes to Light teams, nothing even comes close to Light Nike's potential.
This, this will trigger any Light user out there; in fact, it already triggered the Rank-90-in-Tower-Bear up there, he already confirmed that AW Mike, AW Metatron, Takeminakata, Frey, SSR Arty,.. would yield better result, but apparently you, who didnt even have any real experience with most of them, disagree for whatever reason.
Even just by looking at them on paper, this is what i see:
- Light Nike will bring either roughly 30% damage boost, or double FB at turn every 10 turns, coz having both is just unrealistic in endgame scenario.
- 30% damage is something easily achievable with any Meta-attacker coz they can easily do 2 to 3 times damage of a standard defender, debuffer,...
If we take the Double FB approach, so it is DFB every 11 turns, or 1 FB every 4-5 turns+Elemental dmg buff, dmg cut+Nuke+DA with AW Mike. It's clearly as day which one is generally better.

Tanaka5

06-01-2018, 11:48 AM

Maths don't lie, mates. Don't like it? Prove it wrong.

Have you really lost it to the point where you can't distinguish between Maths and Fantasy?
What you've been talking is like 'I will assume 1=2 and therefore 1 + 3 =5'.

I love Maths but the difference is, the rest of us are being practical. We all do our maths and theorycraft, then we see if that theory is actually applicable without which it is pointless as Blubbergott already stated.

In my case, if I think something is good but less used, I try to ask people who have used it more and actually know more about it than me. That's called curiosity which is how you become more knowledgeable.

You on the other hand get hyped by your discovery and assume everyone else is wrong because in your fantasy world, it is actually godlike. That is ignorance. They're at opposite ends of the spectrum.

Mind you it isn't just nutaku players criticizing you but DMM players too. I have the fortune of asking multiple DMM players about this topic and they all had the same thing to say.
Bear already said that Light Nike is good but her use is niche. And she is actually no where close to what your fantasy maths suggest i.e beating 100% Eidos. She isn't also better than many of the current Light meta himes because it's not just damage or assault buff they bring. Each has it's own distinct use which isn't easily replaceable just because some other hime looks so good on paper. Bear is a Light main who has done well in rankings too and made a Light guide here which also covered Light Nike but even he isn't mathematically inclined according to you right?

Another DMM light main had this to say "She is a permanent bench warmer". Mind you these are people who don't have access to prior information like us and by default the only way they have concrete information is by doing number crunching. So everyone of them has already done their maths way before you could think of it.

You are talking about people who love experimenting with their teams and himes and doing stuff like R runs on AQ4, SR runs on GO or maybe even R runs with a few elements. They test it in theory and then test it in practice unlike you who only does it in fantasy (For a theory to be practical, the base assumptions have to be practical first which aren't and hence, fantasy).

Which is why your statement of "people not being mathematically inclined" is foolish to the extreme. You can continue living in your bubble but that will harm you (and anyone who falls for that advice) when all the future content DMM players base their teams on rolls out, if you continue being arrogant and ignorant rather than curious.

I never had a personal problem with you but now I sort of. You always love making assumptions and baseless ones at that.
Either DMM players are space whales or BaarU isn't good because too much micromanagement or Light Nike > 100% eidos and most recently, people not being mathematically not inclined except you and Sanahtlig. Because I observed if he corrects you or when you are making an argument, it is always "According to Sanahtlig's guide........" but when someone more knowledgeable from DMM comes around and corrects you, they are a space whale or not mathematically inclined when they have it tested both mathematically and practically.

Please stop with making assumptions about people just because it doesn't fit your mentality. No one will every give you advice or bother debating with you if that's what you do because it becomes plain annoying.

HugMeTender

06-01-2018, 12:30 PM

Man, I thought 48 hours was enough time away to escape this argument .__.

Ikki

06-01-2018, 12:36 PM

Man, I thought 48 hours was enough time away to escape this argument .__.

missinfo shall be purged.

BlazeAlter

06-01-2018, 12:43 PM

Man, I thought 48 hours was enough time away to escape this argument .__.

http://i63.tinypic.com/x0ny2e.jpg

this is probably gonna continue until one side that one guy stops replying or something

Ikki

06-01-2018, 12:46 PM

this is probably gonna continue until one side stops replying or something

You mean 1 guy.

BlazeAlter

06-01-2018, 12:47 PM

You mean 1 guy.

oh right, sorry

I corrected it

Slashley

06-01-2018, 01:55 PM

-- Furthermore who cares about the exact cut point? --A newer player would. As such, it is a shame that topic was never returned to.
Yes, maths don't lie, but your base assumptions are entirely wrong. You're assuming that the KH that would replace Nike contributes nothing at all to the team besides plain autohitting.Which I did directly mention, and also said to challenge that mathematically. Whileas this:
From my point of view, a current dmm light team will always consist of: Michael, Metatron and most likely SSArty. That means Nike would be competing for the 4th slot against Take (way more damage than Nike would be doing outside of her assault buff + ~1m added to each burst), Tsuku (5% more def down, Nuke and blind) and maybe Sol if you really need heal/cleanse/dispel. And that's the thing, it's near impossible to just compare the damage/utility any of these adds to the assault Nike adds. It's definitely completely wrong to completely ignore it the way you did.Doesn't even try to. It's just waving a white flag and saying that "Hey, this team of mine is probably correct, but I cannot base it around any sort of math." Which is the exact opposite of what I was hoping for.

Yes, it is difficult, but it is possible to associate a rough numerical value to each of them.
If dmm releases a hime that can deal 20M damage after 20 turns, on paper? shes amazing holy shit 20M dmg top tier stuff, practical use? garbage,--Why call it garbage, when it has potential? It will, of course, depend on content. But, against content where 20m damage from one Hime allows you to skip a Rage phase which is the only dangerous part of the fight, then it is amazing. Yet, you don't even look for the possibilities - you just decide that it's bad, and that's that.

Note that I cannot say if 20m one-turn damage from one Hime is good or bad on current DMM standards though (probably good since 0-Exceed full burst cap is around 8,6m), since their numerical values are highly, highly different from ours. Unlike modifiers, which then apply in the same proportion to whatever base numbers they have.
This is the same damn thing that happened when you said that SSR baal wasnt amazing (even tho shes in every single top tier thunder team in dmm), --Speaking of which, to this day, nobody has brought fourth a single reason why she would be good. Every time, it's just "I dunno lol, DMM players use her, she must be really good!"
Which isn't a reason. At all.

The only thing that I can think of is that if Elem Res- debuff really does help debuffs land, then it's really good news for Thor. Like in Sloth rankings screenshot that I saw, all the teams had Thor and SSR Baal. Is that really the solo reason why people think she's good? "Hey, I saw this Hime on the rankings boards, she must be great!"
... yes... she has a niche of being Thor's buff-bitch. That's... great? I wish people would make actual arguments for SSR Baal. Such as, replacing Mammon due to her downsides in the far future. There, I got you started, why don't you finish that line of thought?
Okay if we ignore the fact that her buff takes 11 turns to kick in, that's 14% damage increase over on-element Hime. Nothing seems wrong, except the fact that it assumes the Hime replaced by Light Nike will just auto-attack without any skill or passive.Umm, if you're taking that perspective, then you're running with the wrong number. An off-element Nike will give 43% to the four other Hime, so 172% is what you'll lose from taking Nike out, and you'll gain directly 100% just from auto-attacks of the new on-element Hime. So, your new Hime will need to be capable of doing 72% of damage from skills. This isn't exactly accurate since it assumes that four members of the team will do nothing but auto-attack, while the new member gets to use skills. But hey? We can roll with it.
Let's take example, with Dark team, since Dark is probably the weakest in damage, and slowest burst ATM: A ideal team will probably be: Hero+Satan/AmonU/Thanatos/Samael+Pluto+1 strong attacker (Let's take Chernobog in this case)+Wild card.

If that wild card is L.Nike: 14% increase.
If it's anything else, which ideally will be a second attacker, we have: Berith (Counter, a faster and stronger self stackable atk buff, berserk), Susanoo(again faster, stronger stack, strong nuke), Kali (Pride-based atk and DATA buff), Agalia (Strong crit buff). All of these easily provide more than a mere 14%, u dont need to be a math genius to see this, people have prove this by actually using them.So, bring forth the actual numbers. And, don't forget to bring forth the reasons why you have the other Hime in there as well. That should be easy, but the premise is also important. Honestly? I'd be amazed if Berith already wouldn't be able to do it, since she's at 160% auto-attacks just from her second skill alone.
--
- Light Nike will bring either roughly 30% damage boost, or double FB at turn every 10 turns, coz having both is just unrealistic in endgame scenario.
- 30% damage is something easily achievable with any Meta-attacker coz they can easily do 2 to 3 times damage of a standard defender, debuffer,...
If we take the Double FB approach, so it is DFB every 11 turns, or 1 FB every 4-5 turns+Elemental dmg buff, dmg cut+Nuke+DA with AW Mike. It's clearly as day which one is generally better.Curious. Would you mind giving basis on where the 30% comes from? Since Light Nike gives 43% to each Hime. And since this is Light, also herself. So a Light Nike team is dealing 7.15 damage each turn when compared to 5 damage without her - that means that a Meta-attacker needs to deal 2.15 by herself. Thus, would you mind expanding upon these?
Have you really lost it to the point where you can't distinguish between Maths and Fantasy?
What you've been talking is like 'I will assume 1=2 and therefore 1 + 3 =5'.

I love Maths but the difference is, the rest of us are being practical. We all do our maths and theorycraft, then we see if that theory is actually applicable without which it is pointless as Blubbergott already stated.

In my case, if I think something is good but less used, I try to ask people who have used it more and actually know more about it than me. That's called curiosity which is how you become more knowledgeable.

You on the other hand get hyped by your discovery and assume everyone else is wrong because in your fantasy world, it is actually godlike. That is ignorance. They're at opposite ends of the spectrum.If so, you'd think that it'd be easy to disprove me, no? I mean, I did leave even hooks specifically for that.
So, if it's ignorance, then where's the proof? Because, yet again, "that guy said so" isn't proof. That's just following somebody else blindly.
You are talking about people who love experimenting with their teams and himes and doing stuff like R runs on AQ4, SR runs on GO or maybe even R runs with a few elements. They test it in theory and then test it in practice unlike you who only does it in fantasy (For a theory to be practical, the base assumptions have to be practical first which aren't and hence, fantasy).If they do actually do this, please do tell them to share their R Hime knowledge. Since honestly? The information about R Hime on DMM wiki is abhorrent. It is rather lacking even on SR Hime, but for Rs, it's often just... absolutely nothing.
I never had a personal problem with you but now I sort of. You always love making assumptions and baseless ones at that.Ah yes, you will be a great loss to me. I'm sorry to see you go, random person on the internet whose majority of posts are right after Ikki's. Please, give my regards to Discord users.

See? I'm making assumptions again. Do correct me.
Since you see, that's just my form of curiosity. Is that annoying? Yes it is. Yet, I expect people to correct me when I'm wrong, and those who do AND can back it up, earn my respect.
-- Sanahtlig. Because I observed if he corrects you or when you are making an argument, it is always "According to Sanahtlig's guide........" but when someone more knowledgeable from DMM comes around and corrects you, --Huh. This might be true. While I haven't done that on purpose, it is probably quite obvious that I hold a great deal of respect for Sanathlig. If you go aaall the way back to when I was a new, frustrated player, he set several things straight with me. He also has made a toolbox available for everyone to use. Very few people have given to the community as much as he has, really. Speaking of which, thumbs up to Aken. I wish his spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ahH9wWmPICwZvJemw6JcxxMac05XLGkbm1nwr7io5dQ/edit#gid=0) was more publicly known as it does it's job excellently.

Anyway, then we get to the crux of the problem again.
they are a space whale or not mathematically inclined when they have it tested both mathematically and practically.See, here's the thing. If they've tested it mathematically, then they could easily debunk it mathematically, no?

Unregistered

06-01-2018, 02:26 PM

Slashley

06-01-2018, 02:32 PM

Hum guys I would like to ask a question now, can anyone please answer. I heard some people said something about Arthur equiping Hercules' relic weapon for the -25% Def (instant burst), but can we even get the skill that was supposedly exclusive to Hercules, like the +30% elemental atk?No.

You can get the Burst effect when equipping on other Souls, but you don't get the other two effects as those are Soul specific. You don't get the elemental attack/HP, and you don't get the skill boost. So even if you put the Axe on Arthur and put Herc's third skill on Arthur, it'll just be the normal, usual third skill.

Tanukimo

06-01-2018, 02:33 PM

Kimoi

06-01-2018, 02:38 PM

The only thing that I can think of is that if Elem Res- debuff really does help debuffs land, then it's really good news for Thor. Like in Sloth rankings screenshot that I saw, all the teams had Thor and SSR Baal. Is that really the solo reason why people think she's good? "Hey, I saw this Hime on the rankings boards, she must be great!"
... yes... she has a niche of being Thor's buff-bitch. That's... great? I wish people would make actual arguments for SSR Baal. Such as, replacing Mammon due to her downsides in the far future. There, I got you started, why don't you finish that line of thought?
You know that elem res- debuff is also a 30% def down, right?

Unregistered

06-01-2018, 02:48 PM

I think he does know that? IIRC, his main complaint about SSR Baal was the 90 second duration on that skill.
But that's mitigated by Baal's cooldown reset skill. IIRC, the idea is to fire the debuff first->reset cooldown->when 90 seconds are up, cast debuff again for another 90 seconds->at least 8 turns should've passed within 180 seconds so you can reset cooldowns again->cast debuff a third time for another 90 seconds. You should be able to string together close to 270 seconds of that debuff in the worst case scenario. And 270 seconds ought to be enough time in fights that get resolved in under 20+ turns. Which as noted by you guys earlier should be the normal situation.

Slashley

06-01-2018, 02:49 PM

You know that elem res- debuff is also a 30% def down, right?Yes, I do. But Def cap is already covered by Mammon and Charles Blast Dartagnan.

Which leads further into the line of thought I mentioned earlier, but nobody has said out loud on these forums.

nonsensei

06-01-2018, 02:50 PM

Not gonna bother answering Slashley anymore, it's clear that he basically just has a boner for Light Nike.

From my point of view, a current dmm light team will always consist of: Michael, Metatron and most likely SSArty. That means Nike would be competing for the 4th slot against Take (way more damage than Nike would be doing outside of her assault buff + ~1m added to each burst), Tsuku (5% more def down, Nuke and blind) and maybe Sol if you really need heal/cleanse/dispel. And that's the thing, it's near impossible to just compare the damage/utility any of these adds to the assault Nike adds. It's definitely completely wrong to completely ignore it the way you did.

A solid thing to point out, but a few corrections/additions: Tsuku adds 5% def down only in case you use Herc, and it would be more precise to say that Herc adds 15% when she finally bursts, since SSArty+Tsuku does cover for 35%. I know it feels a bit nitpicking, but that's how it is.
You could consider using Tish instead of Tsuku, since she's more offense friendly with her buff.
Also, you might as well consider using Shingen(Sniper Shot) instead of Herc, in which case Tsuku's light resist down has more value.

As for Take, her burst echo dmg works a bit more complicated than that. It depends on her number of stacks: number of stacks x 250k, the max is 1.25m (since 5 stacks are the max).

Ikki

06-01-2018, 02:56 PM

Yes, I do. But Def cap is already covered by Mammon and Charles Blast Dartagnan.

Which leads further into the line of thought I mentioned earlier, but nobody has said out loud on these forums.

Cause you dont need d'art anymore if you have baal, duh, it gives you flexibility to use other souls like morgan (with thunder aphro for retarded auto dmg), shingen or hercules, its pretty basic knowledge that these 3 souls shit on d'art, thats the whole point of SSR baal, but you couldnt grasp that yourself which proves how dumb you are.

blubbergott

06-01-2018, 03:13 PM

A solid thing to point out, but a few corrections/additions: Tsuku adds 5% def down only in case you use Herc, and it would be more precise to say that Herc adds 15% when she finally bursts, since SSArty+Tsuku does cover for 35%. I know it feels a bit nitpicking, but that's how it is.
You could consider using Tish instead of Tsuku, since she's more offense friendly with her buff.
Also, you might as well consider using Shingen(Sniper Shot) instead of Herc, in which case Tsuku's light resist down has more value.

As for Take, her burst echo dmg works a bit more complicated than that. It depends on her number of stacks: number of stacks x 250k, the max is 1.25m (since 5 stacks are the max).

Ye, fair points. Tbh, I just wrote these examples down rather quickly, obviously there's way more options and soul choices that each get complemented better/worse by different KH. For Take I just assumed an average of 3-4 stacks when you burst (from what I've seen on videos so far), so went with that (since Slashley wanted numbers). :P

Light in a year (or i guess 9 months onwards) looks so much fun, can't wait for it.

Slashley

06-01-2018, 03:18 PM

Cause you dont need d'art anymore if you have baal, duh, it gives you flexibility to use other souls like morgan (with thunder aphro for retarded auto dmg), shingen or hercules, its pretty basic knowledge that these 3 souls shit on d'art, thats the whole point of SSR baal, but you couldnt grasp that yourself which proves how dumb you are.That's a good start - and now you're the first one to say it out loud. Congratulations. You've now accomplished something in your life. An insult for an insult sound fair enough for you? :smirk:

That's not all, though.
Although Mammon will certainly be the lord and savior of Thunder teams for us for quite some time, she comes with a few downsides. According to the DMM wiki, reaching the damage cap of Mammon's nuke should be easy with Dartagnan. That's 700k damage every 6 turns from the start to finish of the fight. For us, that's great. There's several other Hime who can do this kind of damage with their skills (Awakened Ares for example should be able to), but that's besides the point. The point is, that's the cap. And over the course of the year... the value of that ~116k damage per turn will diminish more and more. In addition, you're locked to Dartagnan for this - Mammon herself won't be able to apply many stacks due to not having Dartagnan's passive. This isn't an issue at first, since there really aren't really alternatives for Charles Blast Dartagnan anyway. But over time, Morgan, Hercules and Shingen get their Relic weapons and become the meta powerhouses they are today. And there we go, Dartagnan is now a burden.

And then a month after Shingen/Morgan's Relic weapons, enter SSR Baal. Suddenly, you're able to swap Mammon out of the team so that you can use another Soul. Mammon is still capable, but no longer the powerhouse she used to be due to not having Dartagnan's Snatch support.

So there. tl;dr;
1. Mammon requires Dartagnan's Snatch to be used properly
2. Mammon's proper use diminishes over time due to damage cap and overall increased damage
3. Relic weapons for non-Dartagnan Souls are extremely powerful

So, you got 2/3. I suppose that's a passing grade.
Happy now?
All it took was for somebody to finally say it out loud.
Light in a year (or i guess 9 months onwards) looks so much fun, can't wait for it.How much did you whale again~?
Just a reminder, when talking about perfect teams, it's not that easy. Miracle Tickets will get you a good way in a single element, at least.