Kamihime General Discussion + Q&A [Archive] - Page 20

Slashley

06-02-2018, 02:24 AM

Slashley, do you seriously believe theory-crafting is superior to play-testing?That's a tricky question, is it not?

First of all, play-testing is required to understand the baseline mechanics. This probably was the easy part, since I hear DMM basically just copy-pasted the mechanics from... uh, what was it again? Granblue?

After that, play-testing is required to get values from skills. Or at least used to be, some months ago suddenly all dbl+ and trpl+ values were input into DMM wiki. Since those are extremely tough to test, I can only assume that somebody found a way to get the values directly from the client.

After all that, yes. After all, why painfully play-test something when you can get the exact same results from a calculator?

However, you're not asking about the general sense, are you? Although you didn't directly say it, I assume you're referring to Light Nike. This is where theory-crafting gets difficult, since the amount of data required to accurately calculate results grows significantly. For example, you need to know how much HP enemies have so you can theorize how long the fight will take. DMM wiki has documented such values very poorly, but at least lately they've picked up on it as Ult and Rag Disasters and AQ5 HP values are properly documented - even if their Def isn't. As such, it becomes easier to just go in there and see how long it takes. Which is important to know, since Light Nike performs on entirely different levels depending on how long the fight takes and how you use her.

Sora

06-02-2018, 02:26 AM

How much did you whale again~?
Just a reminder, when talking about perfect teams, it's not that easy. Miracle Tickets will get you a good way in a single element, at least.

Mhm... you know that this is a RNG game?
In my case I am playing since Icasurs Event and bought one MT and 2x 30$ SSR guranted.

My main team to start was dark, well it's almost perfect. Just need to Miracle one Hime and try my luck with Chernobog/Berith.
However my Water team is pretty much perfect... Yesterday I pulled Poeisdon from premium ticket and she will be nice, when we get her Awakening. Until then she'll be in my sub. What I could need is Wolf Maanaf but she will come out next year. Therefore there is no need to Miracle for water, because the Hime I want to fill my last spot will come out next year.
For Wind I could need 2 more wind SSR to be "perfect".

Who knows what I'll get for my other teams in the next months.
You just need luck and nothing more. Miracle Tickets are nice to fill the last 1-2 Spots and to get the KH you need.

So yea... You don't need to whale to have more than one perfect team, my friend.

About "perfect" teams... You can build more than one perfect team for some elements...
We are getting more and more good SSR Kamihimes and new strong AWs.
That's why there isn't "one perfect build" anymore.
Tbh Sanahtlig guide for team building is already out-dated, if we are talking about the future.

About blubb, well he has some crazy luck and he isn't a whale. So you shouldn't say "how much did you whale again?" but rather "Are you spending a lot of money in this game or are you casual?"
Just because he has some good luck, that dosen't mean he is a whale.
You question was rude.

Slashley

06-02-2018, 03:26 AM

Mhm... you know that this is a RNG game?
--
You just need luck and nothing more. --

So yea... You don't need to whale to have more than one perfect team, my friend.
--
About blubb, well he has some crazy luck and he isn't a whale.--
Just because he has some good luck, that dosen't mean he is a whale.
You question was rude.Luck is not something that continues, nor is it something you can manipulate through anything other than brute force, and even that is... ineffective.

I guess what I should've said is "temper your expectations about that" more than anything, but hey. Fair enough
Tbh Sanahtlig guide for team building is already out-dated, if we are talking about the future.I believe his intention was to look six months into the future at a time, so considering that it hasn't been updated for months... yeah. Especially since SSR power-levels keep climbing higher and higher as time passes. Which is logical, since DMM wants to keep people paying for better Hime. That's not a trend that's going to change.

We're not yet at the point where the guide has become useless, though.

blubbergott

06-02-2018, 07:13 AM

Whileas this:Doesn't even try to. It's just waving a white flag and saying that "Hey, this team of mine is probably correct, but I cannot base it around any sort of math." Which is the exact opposite of what I was hoping for.

Since you previously mentioned Svarog, here's a bit of number crunching:
Assuming 2.3 ability dmg modifier for Svarog nuke (probably the absolute minimum you'll ever have, should be higher in practice) and not enough damage to hit 300k/hit cap (which we prob will at that point, but lets go with that for simplicity) and your 180% assault. For simplicity i'll just take nuke on CD = 3 hits / 3 turns = 2.3 additional atk worth of damage each turn. So not completely disregarding the stackable atk buff, we already get a damage increase of 7.3/5 = 46%. That's more than Nike adds at turn 12. By then Svarog also adds 40% assault, resulting in 3.2/2.8 * 1.46 = 67% increase in damage.

But now once again, this assumes all other 4 are doing nothing but attacking, which would be ridiculous. You'd have to simulate a specific team setup, then compare it to another specific team setup, otherwise all that number crunching has no context at all. Even then, you can only calculate the exact CONSISTENT damage if you were using all skills on CD, which once again, doesn't say much. Pacing is so important in Kamihime (unless you only AAB) and Nike offers 0 options for that (besides the double full burst i guess). I love theorycrafting and number crunching, but it is only as good as your model and getting a precise model for every situation is impossible / infeasible. That's why playtesting is so much more important. Leave number crunching for things that are consistent and where the results actually have practical relevance, but don't rely on them stubbornly for more complex problems like this. Sure, do the math to get an idea of what it does/adds, but until you test it or see it in action, you'll never know how well a KH really fits into a team.

Once again, not saying Nike is useless, she definitely has her Niche uses, but putting a slowpoke like her into one of the fastest element teams for content that probably doesn't even last 10 turns most of the time might not the brightest idea.

How much did you whale again~?
Just a reminder, when talking about perfect teams, it's not that easy. Miracle Tickets will get you a good way in a single element, at least.

Light's my main, so I'm confident a little dolphin like me will be able to manage. Thanks for the concern though. :)

Slashley

06-02-2018, 07:57 AM

--
Assuming 2.3 ability dmg modifier for Svarog nuke (probably the absolute minimum you'll ever have, should be higher in practice) and not enough damage to hit 300k/hit cap (which we prob will at that point, but lets go with that for simplicity) and your 180% assault. For simplicity i'll just take nuke on CD = 3 hits / 3 turns = 2.3 additional atk worth of damage each turn.While 1.3x is the upper end Svarog's first skill, fair enough (1.15 would be more on the average side).
So not completely disregarding the stackable atk buff, we already get a damage increase of 7.3/5 = 46%. That's more than Nike adds at turn 12. By then Svarog also adds 40% assault, resulting in 3.2/2.8 * 1.46 = 67% increase in damage.Since you started with 7.3, we could just keep to that, no? 7.3 * 3.2/2.8 = 8.34.
As a reminder, off-element Light Nike is 4 * 4/2.8 = 5.71, and as such, significantly lower than on-element Svarog. I'm not surprised.

So, next question. What about the rest of the team?

blubbergott

06-02-2018, 08:34 AM

So, next question. What about the rest of the team?

Did you even read my 2nd paragraph?

About abi multiplier, you forgot any other abi buffs that factor into that, in practice, it'll be closer to x3 than x2.3 (https://youtu.be/0zV7BrJAWRo?t=27s). Once again showing how many things you'd have to consider for a precise model. Your maths can be 100% correct, if the model doesn't reflect the actual use, it's still completely irrelevant.

Slashley

06-02-2018, 09:10 AM

Did you even read my 2nd paragraph?I did, yes.
About abi multiplier, you forgot any other abi buffs that factor into that,--Such as what?

blubbergott

06-02-2018, 09:18 AM

I did, yes.Such as what?

Assist, accessories, potentially eleborate (though not sure if there are fire ones already). Just watch any dmm videos, Svarog nukes always hit for ~2.5-3x the attack damage. But well, that's besides the point anyways and you managed to successfully ignore the main point of my post, so I don't see much reason why I should bother to argue anymore.

Slashley

06-02-2018, 09:50 AM

Assist, accessories, potentially eleborate (though not sure if there are fire ones already).... assist what?
Eleborate...?

Accessories... well, those could add up to 45% modifier. But is that actually smart? I haven't mathed Svarog out as I don't have her, but considering that her ability hits "only" three times and already has a 200% modifier, that sounds doubtful. Of course, getting a 3x Ability is miles more likely than even getting 2x Atk up.
But well, that's besides the point anyways and you managed to successfully ignore the main point of my post, so I don't see much reason why I should bother to argue anymore.As I said before, it's possible to get rough bearings, just difficult. But hey? Fair enough.

blubbergott

06-02-2018, 10:21 AM

... assist what?
Eleborate...?

Accessories... well, those could add up to 45% modifier. But is that actually smart? I haven't mathed Svarog out as I don't have her, but considering that her ability hits "only" three times and already has a 200% modifier, that sounds doubtful. Of course, getting a 3x Ability is miles more likely than even getting 2x Atk up.

Svarogs assist is ability damage. Elaborate are the ability damage weapon skills, though (besides them being rather terrible) I don't think there are any good fire weapons that have it as 2nd skill /3rd skill as of yet. Could be wrong though. People could potentially run Hephaestus, who has a 30% buff too.
Ofc you wouldn't aim for ability accessories, but given how common they are, you're bound to have some of them in your 5 acc slots. All that adds up in the end.

Slashley

06-02-2018, 11:46 AM

Aaah, passive ability. That's 8%, which takes the average from 1.15 to 1.23. Didn't think of that.

Heph is a fair point, even though SRs hardly ever come up around here. They should though.

Laventale

06-02-2018, 02:28 PM

Aaah, passive ability. That's 8%, which takes the average from 1.15 to 1.23. Didn't think of that.

Heph is a fair point, even though SRs hardly ever come up around here. They should though.

There are a couple SR that are way too good to be just SR himes, Oberon and Heph being living proofs of that point.

HugMeTender

06-02-2018, 07:36 PM

Decided to pull the Raid Support gacha for the hell of it, got Brahma. That makes my second Thunder SSR (alongside Athena). Is she considered a "good" SSR?

Mraktar

06-02-2018, 11:44 PM

As i can see, there is a lot Dmm players here so i've got some question about DMM kamihime.
1)I've got a phantom bow from fire rognarok. How exacty it works? How can i get another copies for LB other to pray for another lucky drop.
http://神姫プロジェクト.攻略wiki.com/index.php?幻災弩カラミティクォレル
2)What rognarok raid currencies are for? can't found where to spend them.
3) Where to spend master points, what skill to pick? I guess DATA first.

BlazeAlter

06-02-2018, 11:49 PM

As i can see, there is a lot Dmm players here so i've got some question about DMM kamihime.
1)I've got a phantom bow from fire rognarok. How exacty it works? How can i get another copies for LB other to pray for another lucky drop.
http://神姫プロジェクト.攻略wiki.com/index.php?幻災弩カラミティクォレル
2)What rognarok raid currencies are for? can't found where to spend them.
3) Where to spend master points, what skill to pick? I guess DATA first.

im not a DMM player, but I can tell u that you won't be able to make much use out of that phantom bow that you got unless you have 6 other bow type weapons because that's the requirement to activate its effect

Mraktar

06-03-2018, 12:29 AM

im not a DMM player, but I can tell u that you won't be able to make much use out of that phantom bow that you got unless you have 6 other bow type weapons because that's the requirement to activate its effect

It can be done with wind - 5x disaster bows (actualy i've got 1 now, but it's only matter of time)/kuyuki if reprinted + i've got a bow from ssr archer

Laventale

06-03-2018, 12:32 AM

Decided to pull the Raid Support gacha for the hell of it, got Brahma. That makes my second Thunder SSR (alongside Athena). Is she considered a "good" SSR?

Yes, she's core as of know for the Thunder line-up. Plus she's a beast once she gets awakened.

Guaranted Double/Triple hit for 3 turns and a 3 trillions damage nuke aren't something you can ignore easily.

MagicSpice

06-03-2018, 01:32 AM

Yes, she's core as of know for the Thunder line-up. Plus she's a beast once she gets awakened.

Guaranted Double/Triple hit for 3 turns and a 3 trillions damage nuke aren't something you can ignore easily.

kinda regret not going for her the many times i saw her...

my thunder team needs kami upgrades anyway.... (my water one too cause it's lacking even more than thunder)

Mirage

06-03-2018, 01:50 AM

As i can see, there is a lot Dmm players here so i've got some question about DMM kamihime.
1)I've got a phantom bow from fire rognarok. How exacty it works? How can i get another copies for LB other to pray for another lucky drop.
2)What rognarok raid currencies are for? can't found where to spend them.
3) Where to spend master points, what skill to pick? I guess DATA first.

1)
null weapons first abi:
boost stats of all the weapons of the same type, 30% atk, 45% HP

null weapons second abi:
sword: DATA large
spear: atk HP large
axe: abi burst large
hammer: atk extra large
gun: HP extra large
magic tool: HP vigor large
special sword: atk TA large
staff: HP ascension large
bow: atk crit large

Null weapon requires 5 weapon of that same type to activate its effect, sadly there isnt much option to use them unless you are megawhale like this
10232
2) I assume you are talking about those core drop form raid, then they are gor unlocking accessory slot 4 and 5 on each hime. Once a hime has all 5 slots she can get accessory set bonus.

Accessory set effects
Equip 3 accs of a series to gain the set effect
Must have all 5 acc slots unlocked
Can only have 1 set effect; Acc type series takes priority over Normal/Ancient series

Earring: Start battle with 30 burst gauge
Bracelet: Extra damage on normal attacks (+5%)
Tiara: Multi attack rate up (estimate around 10%, thus highly recommended)
Necklace: Critical hit rate up
Brooch: Chance of being targeted up
Ring: Chance of being targeted down

Normal: Start battle with 10 turns of 350 regen
Ancient: Block 1 status effect

3)Generally always DATA first, then just pick to your liking. I personally go atk->burst->crit->defense->hp

Slashley

06-03-2018, 02:26 AM

Yes, she's core as of know for the Thunder line-up. Plus she's a beast once she gets awakened.

Guaranted Double/Triple hit for 3 turns and a 3 trillions damage nuke aren't something you can ignore easily.Sadly, neither of these are particularly good until Awakened (for example her Nuke is 4x damage without Ability+ from somewhere, that's common even on SRs in Thunder). Is she stronger than a random SR? Yeah. But if I had a fourth Thunder SSR, Brahma is the one I'd drop for Astraea since that debuff- is just so damn good.

Once Awakened though, Brahma's abilities shoot for the skies. While her nuke doesn't power up, her second skill gains 30% damage cut for 5/6 uptime. That's 60% Def up by the way, except better since it stacks properly with other damage cuts like Raiko's. Using the skill also heals for 2000, so this makes Brahma extremely tanky. Which is something that she needs, since she gets 100% Vigor from using Burst - in other words, at full HP, she'll deal literally double damage for 4 turns. So combine that double damage with her 5/8 turn guaranteed combo attacks and... well. She's a beast. Further synergy with Berserk.

tl;dr; If you have a full SSR Thunder team, feel free to drop Brahma out until her Awakening. After that, make sure to use her.

Mraktar

06-03-2018, 03:04 AM

Null weapon requires 5 weapon of that same type to activate its effect, sadly there isnt much option to use them unless you are megawhale like this
Or you can use disaster assaults instead of beeng megawhale. For example on nutaku i already could activate bow effect right now for wind - kuyuki bow, 3 MLB disasters, 4 extra copies of bow so it's a 5-th copy. With +30% attack disaster sr will have SSR stats, just m assault instead of l.

And another question - where is spend mastery point button in the interface? I can't find it.
Edit: i found it, it's up from the soul selection button

MagicSpice

06-03-2018, 09:56 AM

Or you can use disaster assaults instead of beeng megawhale. For example on nutaku i already could activate bow effect right now for wind - kuyuki bow, 3 MLB disasters, 4 extra copies of bow so it's a 5-th copy. With +30% attack disaster sr will have SSR stats, just m assault instead of l.

And another question - where is spend mastery point button in the interface? I can't find it.
Edit: i found it, it's up from the soul selection button

events might just throw the requirement at you too if you're patient enough.

they always give 3 SR and one SSR that's fairly easy to MLB... with all the light events we just got, someone might be set for the light element part

between events and disaster assaults (if you're having luck getting disaster assaults unlike me), non-whales should be able to pull it off

Mraktar

06-03-2018, 10:36 AM

events might just throw the requirement at you too if you're patient enough.

they always give 3 SR and one SSR that's fairly easy to MLB... with all the light events we just got, someone might be set for the light element part

between events and disaster assaults (if you're having luck getting disaster assaults unlike me), non-whales should be able to pull it off

I have luck only with wind disaster assault - 16 bows total. Rest elements - 4-5 maximum, fire - only 1, but as i main wind, i do a lot of ultimate wind disasters. MLB assault SR may be not so easy - i've got final Tiamat assault sword only from 1k+ tickets. Good that i had 1.5k+. And it's a first time when i see off element assault weapon in event, usualy we have off-element defender, main element defender, main element assault. So Vritra, Tiamat and new assault bow, Illyanka in 3 weeks- water grid should be in nice shape too, like light. Unfortunately my water hime setup is very poor.

Broken

06-03-2018, 12:09 PM

Dunhere

06-03-2018, 05:57 PM

Last battle I leveled up, had one hime hit 30 went to change her out and its as if the battle never recorded, shes at 27 and some of the level 1's from the last swap are still 1.

I was doing the same with the gem quest last night, and I remember seeing a hime max out and telling myself to remember to swap her out for the next day. This morning, she was still 49

Cobblemaniac

06-03-2018, 07:48 PM

Anyone ever have this happen?

I'm grinding gold SP quest today, and while im doing it I figured I would level up all the R hime I have to 30. So I doing this and swapping himes out as they get to 30. Last battle I leveled up, had one hime hit 30 went to change her out and its as if the battle never recorded, shes at 27 and some of the level 1's from the last swap are still 1. Just curious if this happens often or what? I've relogged, signed in and out etc, no change.

Thanks

I was doing the same with the gem quest last night, and I remember seeing a hime max out and telling myself to remember to swap her out for the next day. This morning, she was still 49

Never seen this issue yet. You should probably ticket Nutaku about this.

On another note...

https://twitter.com/kamihimeproject/status/1002429603980496896/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fxn--hckqz0e9cygq471ahu9b.xn--wiki-4i9hs14f.com%2Findex.php%3F%25E7%25A5%259E%25E5%25 A7%25AB%25E3%2583%2597%25E3%2583%25AD%25E3%2582%25 B8%25E3%2582%25A7%25E3%2582%25AF%25E3%2583%2588%25 E6%2594%25BB%25E7%2595%25A5%25E3%2581%25BE%25E3%25 81%25A8%25E3%2582%2581wiki

You wish Alyssa... you wish.

MagicSpice

06-03-2018, 08:20 PM

On another note...

https://twitter.com/kamihimeproject/status/1002429603980496896/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fxn--hckqz0e9cygq471ahu9b.xn--wiki-4i9hs14f.com%2Findex.php%3F%25E7%25A5%259E%25E5%25 A7%25AB%25E3%2583%2597%25E3%2583%25AD%25E3%2582%25 B8%25E3%2582%25A7%25E3%2582%25AF%25E3%2583%2588%25 E6%2594%25BB%25E7%2595%25A5%25E3%2581%25BE%25E3%25 81%25A8%25E3%2582%2581wiki

You wish Alyssa... you wish.

wedding dress fetish intensifies....

but seriously, kinda hoping she does at least become a kamihime later down the line instead of getting cucked 24/7

I have luck only with wind disaster assault - 16 bows total. Rest elements - 4-5 maximum, fire - only 1, but as i main wind, i do a lot of ultimate wind disasters. MLB assault SR may be not so easy - i've got final Tiamat assault sword only from 1k+ tickets. Good that i had 1.5k+. And it's a first time when i see off element assault weapon in event, usualy we have off-element defender, main element defender, main element assault. So Vritra, Tiamat and new assault bow, Illyanka in 3 weeks- water grid should be in nice shape too, like light. Unfortunately my water hime setup is very poor.

i wish my water grid was in that much shape... i could lessen the burden by leveling what i got except.... my dark, wind, thunder, and possibly fire grids need more attention.... only light is VERY well off having roughly 90% assault atm (closest to that is fire at about 75%)

not to mention a handful of my water kami have a healing/cleanse fetish

which now brings me to this but.... who do I even use for water teams given I got the following:

R-Undine, Rusalka, Kushinada, Aspara, Circe, Oto-hime, Dagon, Ganges, Abzu
SR- Nike (obviously), Belphegor, Gabriel, Oceanus, Triton, Kikuri-hime, Nodens, Cupid, Enkidu, Atalanta
SSR- Snow Raphael, Aphrodite, Sarasvati

Also has all weapon types except lance, arcane, and gun for water... along with every soul except shingen (about 250 holy soul points total). Also has an MLB tiamat and jack frost so that helps

Slashley

06-04-2018, 01:09 PM

Uh, are Gem Quests broken for everyone? It's not giving me 3x3 mobs.

Instead, I always get 3 mobs in wave1, but a random 1-3 in waves 2 and 3. And a Gem quest with just five mobs really fucking sucks.
EDIT: 3450 from a Gem Quest is really just not worth it. Goddamn it Nutaku.

Dunhere

06-04-2018, 01:14 PM

I'm stuck in one that was 3 mobs, then 1, and 0 in the final wave. The quest won't let me complete it; it keeps looping back to the start of wave 3.

Slashley

06-04-2018, 01:16 PM

I'm stuck in one that was 3 mobs, then 1, and 0 in the final wave. The quest won't let me complete it; it keeps looping back to the start of wave 3.Well, absolutely not doing any more then. Christ.

Nutaku, how do you fuck this shit up.
10253

Delete

06-04-2018, 01:35 PM

Weird. It was not only me, at least. Both the lack of mobs and the loop on wave 3 have happened to me. :frown:

By the way, one question...the relic weapons have the attack/hp skill, but also a skill level for the special skill for the Soul. What exactly does that?

Slashley

06-04-2018, 01:40 PM

By the way, one question...the relic weapons have the attack/hp skill, but also a skill level for the special skill for the Soul. What exactly does that?Absolutely nothing.

Just lazy coding.

Kimoi

06-04-2018, 02:23 PM

Well, absolutely not doing any more then. Christ.

Nutaku, how do you fuck this shit up.
10253
It was working just fine last saturday, too...

MagicSpice

06-04-2018, 02:48 PM

Well, absolutely not doing any more then. Christ.

Nutaku, how do you fuck this shit up.
10253

yup, this is SenPro all over again...

Dunhere

06-04-2018, 04:04 PM

As an update, I set the quest aside til I got home, and tried it on my PC instead of my phone. Wave 3 loaded all 3 mobs per normal, and I was able to finish it. Were the other failures on phones as well?

blubbergott

06-04-2018, 04:11 PM

Nope, same on PC. Last 5 mins or so of the gem quest were working normally again (mostly).

MagicSpice

06-04-2018, 06:10 PM

nobody did answer this but...

who do I use for water teams given I got the following:

R-Undine, Rusalka, Kushinada, Aspara, Circe, Oto-hime, Dagon, Ganges, Abzu
SR- Nike (obviously), Belphegor, Gabriel, Oceanus, Triton, Kikuri-hime, Nodens, Cupid, Enkidu, Atalanta
SSR- Snow Raphael, Aphrodite, Sarasvati

Also has all weapon types except lance, arcane, and gun for water... along with every soul except shingen (about 250 holy soul points total). Also has an MLB tiamat and jack frost so that helps

KyGuy24

06-04-2018, 06:41 PM

Noob player here, couple of questions. How often do Union events generally pop up?

Second, is there a list of definitions with all the terms you guys use? (Like MLB and DATA for example)

Thanks.

HugMeTender

06-04-2018, 06:48 PM

Well, after 20 prem tickets and a 3k jewel pull and no SSR, I might as well buy some coins since I'm statistically guaranteed an SSR #Kappa

Cobblemaniac

06-04-2018, 08:04 PM

Noob player here, couple of questions. How often do Union events generally pop up?

Second, is there a list of definitions with all the terms you guys use? (Like MLB and DATA for example)

Thanks.

Union events? Indeterminate. They pop up as often as the game developers decide, there's no fixed date. You can find the list of predicted events based on the DMM version here tho https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PhfOAQk6EyK5l33ux_C4T-cexVIQp6D-_Hbd-OO1OmQ/edit#gid=1090858479

Terms wise... I'll list all I have off the top of my head.

(number)-LB: Number of limit breaks. Number = number of stars you see.
MLB/FLB: Max/ Full limit break. Note that some of the people here like to use FLB for the 4th limit break of SSR weapons, which hasn't been implemented in Nutaku yet.
DATA: Double attack triple attack. Listed as combo+/- in game.
AB: Auto battle (green)
AAB: Auto ability battle (red)
Dispel: Removes enemy buffs
Cleanse: Removes your debuffs

... And I dunno what else you don't know, so someone else might have to fill in the gap for me, or you can continue asking.

nobody did answer this but...

who do I use for water teams given I got the following:

R-Undine, Rusalka, Kushinada, Aspara, Circe, Oto-hime, Dagon, Ganges, Abzu
SR- Nike (obviously), Belphegor, Gabriel, Oceanus, Triton, Kikuri-hime, Nodens, Cupid, Enkidu, Atalanta
SSR- Snow Raphael, Aphrodite, Sarasvati

Also has all weapon types except lance, arcane, and gun for water... along with every soul except shingen (about 250 holy soul points total). Also has an MLB tiamat and jack frost so that helps

Well, this event basically gave us one thing that water doesn't need, but sure as hell made it better: Atalanta. As a free fucking raid hime. I'm sure I don't have to go into what she brings to the table. cough cough free discount Cthulhu

Ok, but the team I might go for with water... Snow Raphy Triton Atalanta Aphrodite/ Sol/ Kikuri Gabriel(?)/ Saraswati(?). Backup can be Belphegor and Oceanus(?). The (?) himes might be swappable, depending.

I don't think Snow Raphy, Atalanta or Triton needs any explanation. Aphro is basically your water heal, Sol is your C frame atk down should you find yourself needing more damage cut (and complete cuteness. Yes I'm still not over it crucify me will ya), and Kikuri exists to give you your early burst, if you so orient yourself towards that build. Gabriel I'm not so certain, she completes the A frame part of def break but doesn't really push it to the cap (you get 39% with Gabriel), as is with Oceanus/ Saraswati, given that you basically need to run Ambush with the latter, although you get way better damage.

Soul wise... It depends on how you're running things most likely. I like to play my safest option with Mordred (because VoF), but it might be different for you. As far as EX skills go, you can run BP for the Gabriel in front setup if you're not using Mordred, and you can run Ambush for the Oceanus/ Saras in front setup.

Edit: If you find Raphy's debuffs not working for you (either because they're single target or you need extra 5%), there's always sniper shot EX too. This one works well for me in AQs.

HugMeTender

06-04-2018, 09:39 PM

Are the SR Eidolon that decrease elemental damage worth keeping?

It kind seems like -25% damage (at MLB) is really good. Is it a TRUE -25% or is it some kind of silly math?

MagicSpice

06-04-2018, 10:07 PM

Are the SR Eidolon that decrease elemental damage worth keeping?

It kind seems like -25% damage (at MLB) is really good. Is it a TRUE -25% or is it some kind of silly math?

It should be a flat damage decrease. it's good for defensive setups, but you're losing a lot of offense potential using those. You're probably better off using anything else (possibly even the lilims but i wouldn't recommend those as main/friend eidolons) as a lead opposed to the damage cut eidolons...

only exception is eidolons like barong, jack frost, and amphisbaena (if you happen to have them or see them on friend slots) cause they increase your offense and defense (technically kyuki, and rahab due to their summon effects, but they're kinda meh). Should also mention that Reiki acts like jack frost in this case but you need to summon reiki for the damage reduction (and it's not permament like jack frost, but you got slightly more damage output to make up for it)

Union events? Indeterminate. They pop up as often as the game developers decide, there's no fixed date. You can find the list of predicted events based on the DMM version here tho https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PhfOAQk6EyK5l33ux_C4T-cexVIQp6D-_Hbd-OO1OmQ/edit#gid=1090858479

Terms wise... I'll list all I have off the top of my head.

(number)-LB: Number of limit breaks. Number = number of stars you see.
MLB/FLB: Max/ Full limit break. Note that some of the people here like to use FLB for the 4th limit break of SSR weapons, which hasn't been implemented in Nutaku yet.
DATA: Double attack triple attack. Listed as combo+/- in game.
AB: Auto battle (green)
AAB: Auto ability battle (red)
Dispel: Removes enemy buffs
Cleanse: Removes your debuffs

... And I dunno what else you don't know, so someone else might have to fill in the gap for me, or you can continue asking.

Well, this event basically gave us one thing that water doesn't need, but sure as hell made it better: Atalanta. As a free fucking raid hime. I'm sure I don't have to go into what she brings to the table. cough cough free discount Cthulhu

Ok, but the team I might go for with water... Snow Raphy Triton Atalanta Aphrodite/ Sol/ Kikuri Gabriel(?)/ Saraswati(?). Backup can be Belphegor and Oceanus(?). The (?) himes might be swappable, depending.

I don't think Snow Raphy, Atalanta or Triton needs any explanation. Aphro is basically your water heal, Sol is your C frame atk down should you find yourself needing more damage cut (and complete cuteness. Yes I'm still not over it crucify me will ya), and Kikuri exists to give you your early burst, if you so orient yourself towards that build. Gabriel I'm not so certain, she completes the A frame part of def break but doesn't really push it to the cap (you get 39% with Gabriel), as is with Oceanus/ Saraswati, given that you basically need to run Ambush with the latter, although you get way better damage.

Soul wise... It depends on how you're running things most likely. I like to play my safest option with Mordred (because VoF), but it might be different for you. As far as EX skills go, you can run BP for the Gabriel in front setup if you're not using Mordred, and you can run Ambush for the Oceanus/ Saras in front setup.

Edit: If you find Raphy's debuffs not working for you (either because they're single target or you need extra 5%), there's always sniper shot EX too. This one works well for me in AQs.

Also wanna add to that terms list that we have (++) in weapon skills mentioned as Large and (+) as medium. otherwise it's small. And so far we only have Assault, Defender, and Pride but we might come into some new ones soon.

As for the water teams, Aphrodite can cover the healing aspect in fights like against Amaru where i need cleanse. if i truly do need more damage reduction, then awakened Sol should do more than get the job done. otherwise that 4th spot will go to gabriel since she's leveled and the better of the buffers.

Also underestimated Triton... I should have put more faith in her but thankfully my water hime are more or less leveled up. I also like using mordred a lot so she'll probably be the soul I settle on after i test things out a bit (i do have to level up that water grid as i got some decent assault weapons for it thanks to a few events).

HugMeTender

06-04-2018, 10:18 PM

Last question for tonight, who's gonna be my next MLB Hime? I've already got max Sol (saving for her awakening)

So now it's a choice between: Satan, Cthulhu, Shamash, Athena, Brahma, Gaia, and Poseidon.

My weapons are primarily light, thunder, and water focused.

I included pics of my Eidolon in case that affects my choice. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180605/87c0f9fcd47b0091ea39f18622d0e578.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180605/6328812c76bd61847a3684a94453fac3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180605/f5f4bebe446dc03d410fb4e495c3e119.jpg

Cobblemaniac

06-04-2018, 11:08 PM

Slashley

06-05-2018, 03:11 AM

SR- Nike (obviously), Belphegor, Gabriel, Oceanus, Triton, Kikuri-hime, Nodens, Cupid, Enkidu, Atalanta
SSR- Snow Raphael, Aphrodite, SarasvatiThrough process of elimination:
Heals: Aphrodite
Debuffs: Snow Raphael, Atalanta, Triton
Remainers: Saravati/Belphegor (or Cobble's suggestion of Sol, would lower your damage output a lot, but give a ton of survival for your group).
Soul: Until Herc weapons are a thing, Mordred is your go to soul. Bring Ambush.
Total: -47% Def, -30% Atk.

If you have a decent grid, should be a strong team.
Noob player here, couple of questions. How often do Union events generally pop up?Usually once a month, but we're about to enter a phase where it is one almost every second week (out of the next six events, three are Union events). If you want Dragon Eyes, I recommend you find yourself the strongest Union you can find. That's going to be tough for a new player though.

Cobble already linked this, but the encyclopedia in Sanahtlig's toolbox (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PhfOAQk6EyK5l33ux_C4T-cexVIQp6D-_Hbd-OO1OmQ/edit#gid=1090858479) gives you a quick peek on all the upcoming events.
Second, is there a list of definitions with all the terms you guys use? (Like MLB and DATA for example)Two tabs before the encyclopedia is the "encyclopedia legend" which has terminology for Hime skills. MLB isn't there though, but it's Max Limit Break, something used for items/Eidolons once they're at full stars. Honestly, you can use those three letters in any combination you want - Limit Break Max, Max Break Limit, Break Max Limit, people will understand it :sweat:

Anyway, I personally dislike the DATA acronym. "Data" is already a word in the English language with a different meaning, plus it goes against the ingame terminology.
Are the SR Eidolon that decrease elemental damage worth keeping?

It kind seems like -25% damage (at MLB) is really good. Is it a TRUE -25% or is it some kind of silly math?That's a very good question towards which I have no answer. I don't think anyone has ever needed to test. There's also a R version which should be far easier to LMB though.
Do note that using a R/SR will seriously cut into your damage output. Using two would cut even more horrendously.

Unregistered

06-05-2018, 03:32 AM

There are a couple SR that are way too good to be just SR himes, Oberon and Heph being living proofs of that point.

Can you give more examples of "too good" SR's?

Mraktar

06-05-2018, 03:34 AM

Well, after 20 prem tickets and a 3k jewel pull and no SSR, I might as well buy some coins since I'm statistically guaranteed an SSR #Kappa

20 tickets and 3k jewels? lol, you're a lucky guy. I ws aiming for Seth several months, got 21.6k jewels, 4 kamihime tickets, 70 premium tickets and what i've got?
Jewels : no single SSR, SR: Belphy, Bastet and Belobog.
Hime tickets: nothing, all 4 rare duplicates
Premium tickets: 2 more Belphy weapons, Iblis, Kingu. At last 5 tickets i've got ssr, but it's not Seth - Sol. I even don't have Eniil.

I failed with Cybele ( almost 15k jewels, about 50 tickets), i failed with Seth. I'm so depressed, gonna drink this everning.
So now in next year i will need no single new wind hime. They all are garbage or require specific setup like archer.

Delete

06-05-2018, 03:37 AM

Oberon, Hephaestus, Brynhild, Beelzebub, Diana, Belphegor, maybe Atalanta (has to test her still)...I would say Belobog too, but I don't know if other will agree.

Edit: In response of ·SR himes that may seem SSR·.

Slashley

06-05-2018, 03:46 AM

Can you give more examples of "too good" SR's?Gacha SR Queens:
Water: Belphegor, Triton
Fire: Brynhildr, Hephaustus
Wind: Oberon
Thunder: Artemis (Halloween), Astraea, Cyclops
Light: Belebog, Diana, Djehuti
Dark: Beelzebub, Nyarlathotep, Bastet (for backrow HP), Proserpina

Not all of these Hime are SSR quality, but these SRs are a head and shoulders above the rest. I'd say that Belphegor, Beelz and maybe Heph are basically SSR quality, though Heph only because not a single Fire SSR has a A frame Def Down.
I failed with Cybele ( almost 15k jewels, about 50 tickets), i failed with Seth. I'm so depressed, gonna drink this everning.I haven't drawn a single rate up SSR in my Kamihime career (13 months now). And honestly? People like us are the majority. Don't expect to win a game of chance that's rigged against you, for the sole purpose of making you pay.

Mraktar

06-05-2018, 05:15 AM

Gacha SR Queens:
Water: Belphegor, Triton
Fire: Brynhildr, Hephaustus
Wind: Oberon
Thunder: Artemis (Halloween), Astraea, Cyclops
Light: Belebog, Diana, Djehuti
Dark: Beelzebub, Nyarlathotep, Bastet (for backrow HP), Proserpina

Not all of these Hime are SSR quality, but these SRs are a head and shoulders above the rest. I'd say that Belphegor, Beelz and maybe Heph are basically SSR quality, though Heph only because not a single Fire SSR has a A frame Def Down.

I would add to this list wind:Iblis (aoe nuke with blind, wind attack up, b-frame debuff) and from nearby future - water: Venus (nuke with self-heal, fire def debuff+water attack up, def up+ barier, passive - 5% hp to every water character).

P.S. Can anyone give me advice about my new wind team with all this garbage i've got?
SSR: Hastur. SR: Cybele, Cronos, Maeve, Itaqua, Iblis. R: everyone l50. Additionaly i've got MLB Sol+4 eyes so she will be awakened ASAP.
Current setup is Hastur Cybele Zephyrus Itaqua. Soul mainly Morded or Joan.
I don't know, is it a good idea Zephyrus=>Sol. It's a damage loss, but it may be partialy compensated with Itaqua=>someone with good damage (Maeve?). Cybele=>Iblis seems to be good.

About water now i can see following: Belphy, Triton, Atlanta, Sol/Nike sr (i dont have any SSR and have Oceanus, Cupid, Kikuri-Hime SR). Ex - ambush, soul - mordred.

Slashley

06-05-2018, 01:32 PM

Gem Quests are still broken...

Yolodesu

06-05-2018, 01:52 PM

Gem Quests are still broken...

Ye, dark mobs aren't spawning anymore since the new daily gem quest (which only contain holy mobs )

Who knows why...

Unregistered

06-05-2018, 02:16 PM

Slashley

06-05-2018, 02:53 PM

So I was looking around the JWiki. I noticed in the future we will be able to have the chance to obtain previous raid/descent Eidolons, Will this also be the case for previous limited Kamihime around the same time or at least something planned?No.

Well, I'm not sure, but some stuff might cycle in a new Gacha. But I guess that's up to Nutaku. At the very least, it's very possible you won't be able to roll for them with Jewels.

AutoCrimson

06-05-2018, 03:16 PM

G quests works fine for me

Unregistered

06-05-2018, 04:48 PM

So I was looking around the JWiki. I noticed in the future we will be able to have the chance to obtain previous raid/descent Eidolons, Will this also be the case for previous limited Kamihime around the same time or at least something planned?

There'll be a separate gacha for the raid event kamihime. You can actually see in the exchange for Illuyanka's event something called raid shinki kaihou weapon gacha kakutei gacha ticket. (raid shinki liberation weapon fixed gacha ticket in google translate)
The pool of girls in that gacha isn't necessarilly all of the raid SRs; they wait months in between updating it. But if you've been around recently and are only missing the older ones, then don't worry, they'll be in that gacha.

Unregistered

06-05-2018, 04:50 PM

Sorry, it's raid shinki kaihou weapon kakutei gacha ticket. Dunno why I wrote gacha twice there.

MagicSpice

06-05-2018, 05:37 PM

Sorry, it's raid shinki kaihou weapon kakutei gacha ticket. Dunno why I wrote gacha twice there.

yeah, i'm hoping to pull old SR assaults if possible... some grids aren't "loaded with SSR" like my wind and light ones (even then, they got some defenders which could be replaced)

Ye, dark mobs aren't spawning anymore since the new daily gem quest (which only contain holy mobs )

Who knows why...

new cave of gold ore is only supposed to spawn dark mobs (3 per wave). they're supposed to be emerald, sapphire, and dark carbuncles

new gem quest is only supposed to spawn light mobs (again, 3 per wave). they're supposed to be holy, pearl, and diamond carbuncles

if you're getting anything different, there's something wrong here

Yolodesu

06-05-2018, 06:13 PM

new cave of gold ore is only supposed to spawn dark mobs (3 per wave). they're supposed to be emerald, sapphire, and dark carbuncles

new gem quest is only supposed to spawn light mobs (again, 3 per wave). they're supposed to be holy, pearl, and diamond carbuncles

if you're getting anything different, there's something wrong here

We are talking about regular gem quest. Dark mobs aren't spawning, and that's why you get infinite loop and can't attack (if you don't have at least 1 light mob you can't get the wave cleared)

And yes, the new gem quest only contain light mobs. That's what i've said mate, read again.

BlazeAlter

06-05-2018, 08:52 PM

3 per wave you say

today i've experienced either 1 or 2 per round :l is this normal? its weirding me out
during sunday everything was fine, each wave still had 3 mobs but today I encounter mostly just 1 or 2, and seldom 3 per wave

MagicSpice

06-05-2018, 11:24 PM

well, in response to the gem/exp quests.... here's what i recorded day 1 of these things:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM_az70-3j4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPW4-tUdT8Y

that's why i said that only dark is in gold ore, only light is in gem, and you get 3 enemies each wave totaling 9 encountered...

i haven't touched gem quest much (i got almost 600k gems after all), but i haven't came across any issues when i tried it. as for exp, been grinding the hell out of that and NEVER saw issues...

but this is going by the "2 times only" quests (and the all day cave of gold ore)

We are talking about regular gem quest. Dark mobs aren't spawning, and that's why you get infinite loop and can't attack (if you don't have at least 1 light mob you can't get the wave cleared)

And yes, the new gem quest only contain light mobs. That's what i've said mate, read again.

actually, you need to read again cause i said:

new gem quest is only supposed to spawn light mobs

meaning dark mobs should NEVER be factored in... as in, there shouldn't even be holes... just 3 light mobs EVERY SINGLE WAVE FOR ALL 3 WAVES

as in 9 light enemies total, no dark ones at all for gem quests....

the "2 times a day" version should have gotten the same treatment as the one that's open for 30 mins....

Unregistered

06-06-2018, 01:36 AM

Cobblemaniac

06-06-2018, 02:07 AM

From what I can tell you're talking about how it should be , but you also state you haven't tried the 30min gem quests. They're specifically the ones that are bugged. If you haven't already, please try the 30 min ones a few times - I did 5 today and not one had 9 mobs, and one of them had 0 mobs in the 3rd wave. But, the twice a day ones, the ones you've been doing, yes - they're fine.

Err... I've been getting non-9 gem quest daily experts, so at least on my side, they're bugged too.

I hope 650k gems is enough to tide me through this crisis of not being able to farm gems daily...

I do want to question my wind team though, on another note, considering it's basically the element I need the most to complement my current water main.

I'll put the grids aside, that can be levelled.

My wind himes are:
SSR: Gaia awakened, Hastur
SR: Cybele, Hermes, Itaqhua
R: Zephyrus, Wind Orpheus, Caspiel, Puck, Boreas, Scathach
Not the most impressive spread, that's for sure.

I currently run a wind team with D'Art BP A-Gaia Hastur Wind Orpheus A-Sol with Zephyrus Cybele as backup, in exactly that order. Is that the most optimal setup I can run as of now, or is there something I should switch around/ replace? Eidolon-wise, I'm also considering whether I should complete the def break with Vine... thoughts?

Slashley

06-06-2018, 02:26 AM

We are talking about regular gem quest. Dark mobs aren't spawning, and that's why you get infinite loop and can't attack (if you don't have at least 1 light mob you can't get the wave cleared)Do you have any proof that it's dark mobs that aren't spawning, instead of light mobs that just didn't spawn?

I mean, it's not impossible, but I find it odd.
I currently run a wind team with D'Art BP A-Gaia Hastur Wind Orpheus A-Sol with Zephyrus Cybele as backup, in exactly that order. Is that the most optimal setup I can run as of now, or is there something I should switch around/ replace?With Gaia, I'm not sure you'll need Sol. Your damage output is hurting to begin with.

I think I'd rather run Mordred with Sniper Shot, that way you get BP, Sniper Shot AND debuff-. Hastur's Def Down doesn't reach 100% without debuff- even with elemental advantage AND 6% Accessories, though it is very, very close (and reminder that Ult Thunder has a reduced resistance, so even Sniper Shot will land on that thing 100%).

As for the team, Hastur, Gaia, Zephyrus, Ithaqua, I guess. That should catch you all the debuffs you need while giving you decent heals. It's a shame that you don't have Freya, since Awakened Gaia-Freya-Puck is a fun little combo.
Eidolon-wise, I'm also considering whether I should complete the def break with Vine... thoughts?My opinion to this is the same as before: always bring Vine when below 50% Def Down.

In content which doesn't last you 8 turns, the damage loss from Vine is insignificant.
In content which lasts you over 8 turns, the damage gain from Vine is incredible.

"Not taking Vine" is going to be an option once Hercules' Relic comes out. That's still months away assuming we stick to DMM's schedule... and we're weeks behind on that. Thanks, Nutaku.

Yolodesu

06-06-2018, 02:37 AM

Edit : i was wrong, don't take my post into account

3 per wave you say

today i've experienced either 1 or 2 per round :l is this normal? its weirding me out
during sunday everything was fine, each wave still had 3 mobs but today I encounter mostly just 1 or 2, and seldom 3 per wave

Well, no it's not "normal" :sweat: but that's the bug other ppl are experiencing.
Imo, the holes during waves are due to dark mobs not spawning. (=less gems in the end). And if a wave was supposed to spawn 3 dark mobs, it's empty and you can't finish the quest (=25ap lost)

actually, you need to read again cause i said:

new gem quest is only supposed to spawn light mobs

meaning dark mobs should NEVER be factored in... as in, there shouldn't even be holes... just 3 light mobs EVERY SINGLE WAVE FOR ALL 3 WAVES

as in 9 light enemies total, no dark ones at all for gem quests....

the "2 times a day" version should have gotten the same treatment as the one that's open for 30 mins....

Dude, no offense but you're the one not understanding here. x2 daily gem quest and 30 minutes gem quest are different.
You're talking about the first one, while the bug occurs with the other one.
And 30 minutes gem quest always had both dark and light mobs in it.

Do you have any proof that it's dark mobs that aren't spawning, instead of light mobs that just didn't spawn?

I don't, it just seems logical.
Before the patch : Light and dark mobs
After the patch : Light mobs and holes

Slashley

06-06-2018, 02:48 AM

And 30 minutes gem quest always had both dark and light mobs in it.No it didn't... it was always pure Light mobs, despite the Eidolon page throwing you into Fire Eidolons because of "mixed mobs." That got changed recently and it finally throws you into Dark Eidolons because the fight is against Light mobs.

The Light mobs each drop a guaranteed 650, 700 and 750 Gems. You get Gems accordingly to your kills. For the record, the Dark mobs drop you 40, 80 and 120 Gems.

I'm not saying that it's impossible that Dark mobs are spawning as holes, but I still find it unlikely.
--
And if a wave was supposed to spawn 3 dark mobs, it's empty and you can't finish the quest (=25ap lost)--VeryVoodoo found a workaround for the empty waves.
1. Go join and kill a Raid battle
2. Close client
3. Log back-in and resume

Magically, the Light mobs will spawn back. It's a pain in the ass of a work-around, but at least you won't lose 25 AP. Just a boatload of time.

Cobblemaniac

06-06-2018, 03:02 AM

With Gaia, I'm not sure you'll need Sol. Your damage output is hurting to begin with.

Noted... It's probably my instinctual reliance on Sol that's hurting my gameplay at this point isn't it? :neutral:

I think I'd rather run Mordred with Sniper Shot, that way you get BP, Sniper Shot AND debuff-. Hastur's Def Down doesn't reach 100% without debuff- even with elemental advantage AND 6% Accessories, though it is very, very close (and reminder that Ult Thunder has a reduced resistance, so even Sniper Shot will land on that thing 100%).

I would run Mordred with SS... Except I literally don't have a wind sword or glaive. That should change next event however.

As for the team, Hastur, Gaia, Zephyrus, Ithaqua, I guess. That should catch you all the debuffs you need while giving you decent heals. My opinion to this is the same as before: always bring Vine when below 50% Def Down.

In content which doesn't last you 8 turns, the damage loss from Vine is insignificant.
In content which lasts you over 8 turns, the damage gain from Vine is incredible.

"Not taking Vine" is going to be an option once Hercules' Relic comes out. That's still months away assuming we stick to DMM's schedule... and we're weeks behind on that. Thanks, Nutaku.

I... am confused over a couple of things here. Not the Vine point, I understand that one just fine.

The first case is Zephyrus over Sol. Heal-wise, err... yes I probably don't need the ridiculous heal power Sol has, plus Ithaqhua is already there. You might have seen this question before, but how much damage tradeoff would I be doing with a simple switch to an R same element hime? I ask this mainly because I still see Zephy as replaceable by Sol, especially in a situation where I do want to have that stupid strong heal buff.

Next question regards... lack of wind Orpheus. I find this a tad bit confusing since I believe you have expressed your love for zeal quite a few times (with Raiko and fire Beelz anyway). Any reason why she wouldn't fit in the team?

Last question has to do with Cybele. If I replace Ithaqua with Cybele to free up my EX slot from the B frame debuffs:
A. How viable/ dumb is that option?
B. If A is viable, what would you slot in as the EX?

And as a footnote...

It's a shame that you don't have Freya, since Awakened Gaia-Freya-Puck is a fun little combo.

My sides.

Yolodesu

06-06-2018, 03:08 AM

No it didn't... it was always pure Light mobs
:think: *search on youtube* :fear:
OOooooh! ok... well, i don't know why this quest had both element in my memories. i'm probably confounding with sunday quest.

Well. dunno why there is holes then.

VeryVoodoo found a workaround for the empty waves.
1. Go join and kill a Raid battle
2. Close client
3. Log back-in and resume

Magically, the Light mobs will spawn back. It's a pain in the ass of a work-around, but at least you won't lose 25 AP. Just a boatload of time.

Lets hope it will be fixed with the next patch. cause it indeed seems like a pain in the ass.

Slashley

06-06-2018, 03:52 AM

Noted... It's probably my instinctual reliance on Sol that's hurting my gameplay at this point isn't it? :neutral:It's not necessarily wrong. It's slower, but it is safer, that's for sure.

Note that as you are weak, a powerful healer like Sol will entirely change your runs. It is very easy to get used to this as a norm. As you grow stronger and stronger, you will probably not even notice that you don't need Sols in your teams anymore. At which point of this you are at? I don't know. The only way for you to know is to experiment.

Even if you're past the point where Sol is no longer REQUIRED for you to clear content but you ENJOY it - then go ahead. Except in content where time-limits are a thing (which we don't have yet) there is no game mechanic that punishes you for playing in that way. In the end, Kamihime is a game. Your enjoyment is the primary thing here.
The first case is Zephyrus over Sol. Heal-wise, err... yes I probably don't need the ridiculous heal power Sol has, plus Ithaqhua is already there. You might have seen this question before, but how much damage tradeoff would I be doing with a simple switch to an R same element hime?While the exact answer will depend on your exact damage output (which I don't have acess to), let's consider a few possibilities:
Off-element Sol does 0 damage, everyone on-element does 1 damage. Bringing 5 damage over 4 damage is a 20% increase. For the record, Vine taking Def Down from 40% to 50% is a 16% damage increase, so 20% is a LOT.

But, realistically, Sol isn't going to do 0 damage. So let's look at the two extremes, somewhat realistic:
For my Water team that runs Sunday AQ4 with Sol (fuck Thunder waves! ;_; ), at -50% Def, I punch Fire stuff for 50k, and I think Sol punches for 10k-ish? This should be about the highest you can get without whaling in Nutaku. So, Sol does 0.2 damage, so 5 vs. 4.2 = 16% increase.
Meanwhile, a team with absolutely no Grid but elemental advantage and Eidolons, Sol will be doing at best half damage compared to on-element guys (100% Assault for both Sol and on-element Himes, but 235% Element modifier for on-element Himes is over double damage). So 5 vs. 4.5 = 10% increase.

tl;dr; With lazy math, taking a on-element R Hime over off-element is a 10-16% damage increase, depending on where your grid is at. Are R Hime good damage dealers? No, no they're not. But there's very few exceptions to off-element Hime who can compare to on-element Hime (such as SR Beelz!).
-- I ask this mainly because I still see Zephy as replaceable by Sol, especially in a situation where I do want to have that stupid strong heal buff. -- Next question regards... lack of wind Orpheus. I find this a tad bit confusing since I believe you have expressed your love for zeal quite a few times (with Raiko and fire Beelz anyway). Any reason why she wouldn't fit in the team?I put these together since the answer is related.

First off, Zeal. Is it good? Yes it is. But let's have a look at duration:
Wind Ramiel/Wind Orpheus: 2 turns
Raiko: 3 turns
SSR Beelz: 5 turns
This... is what makes me a bit skeptical about Wind Zeal users. Is +20 team-wide burst good? Again, yes, yes it is. But there's another problem:

Party slots.

Now, for you, Zephyrus is probably the stronger healer than than Ithaqua. I haven't done the actual maths, but because preventing damage is basically a heal, Zephyrus should be able to keep you healthier than Ithaqua alone. Add in Ithaqua's heals, and Zephyrus-Ithaqua combo is basically a two-slot pre-Awakening Sol, so should keep you safe. So, can you afford to run Zephyrus-Wind Orpheus? That's up for you to find out.
Last question has to do with Cybele. If I replace Ithaqua with Cybele to free up my EX slot from the B frame debuffs:
A. How viable/ dumb is that option?
B. If A is viable, what would you slot in as the EX?It is something to keep in mind. That is something that'll benefit you if you need to use that EX slot for Cleanse, Dispel or something else like Provisional Forest.

On a side note that came to mind from this, Joan(BP)-Gaia-Hastur-Zeph-Cybele would probably do well. You'd trade a small loss in damage output for damage reduction, and with Joan-Gaia you'd already have an incredible amount of anti-Overdrive capability.
My sides.:sweat:
What!

It's true, Awakened Gaia under Guard-Intercept-Berserk will hit like a truck berserker! Bonus points for content which often does triple attacks, like Phoenix or Ult Wind.

Mraktar

06-06-2018, 05:36 AM

Noted... It's probably my instinctual reliance on Sol that's hurting my gameplay at this point isn't it? :neutral:

I would run Mordred with SS... Except I literally don't have a wind sword or glaive. That should change next event however.

I... am confused over a couple of things here. Not the Vine point, I understand that one just fine.

The first case is Zephyrus over Sol. Heal-wise, err... yes I probably don't need the ridiculous heal power Sol has, plus Ithaqhua is already there. You might have seen this question before, but how much damage tradeoff would I be doing with a simple switch to an R same element hime? I ask this mainly because I still see Zephy as replaceable by Sol, especially in a situation where I do want to have that stupid strong heal buff.

Next question regards... lack of wind Orpheus. I find this a tad bit confusing since I believe you have expressed your love for zeal quite a few times (with Raiko and fire Beelz anyway). Any reason why she wouldn't fit in the team?

Last question has to do with Cybele. If I replace Ithaqua with Cybele to free up my EX slot from the B frame debuffs:
A. How viable/ dumb is that option?
B. If A is viable, what would you slot in as the EX?

And as a footnote...

My sides.

As i have the same wind himes as you (except Gaya), i can tell what i was thinking about it. If we will replace Zephyrus with Sol, team will lose about 15% total non-skilll damage if we count Sol's damage as 0. But a)Sol's damage is not 0 b) Sol has damaging skill (weak as off-element, but it's still a damage) c) other himes (like Hastur and Gaya) have their own strong damaging so even with 160% assault and 200% eydo total damage loss will not be greater then 10%. Instead we gain supermegahyper heal, stronger attack debuff, cleance, dark resist buff on burst (not working on nutaku as i know) etc. But Itaqua will not be needed if you will use Sol so you can replace her with someone more usefull (her nuke is so-so, poison is garbage and intercept on healer... too situational), so we will trade 2 not very high damaging hime for 1 even less damaging but more supporting one and 1 free slot. Released hime slot can be filled with someone more damaging or providing more buffs/debuffs to compensate damage loss from Sol. So i can't see anything bad in using Sol in this situation if you don't have Seth. Cybele is a good option for replacement because she releases ex slot, i'm using her because i don't have Gaya or other wind SSR, but i like Iblis more for b-frame debuff if you have her.

What ex should you use with Cybele? If soul is not Mordred - BP, if Mordred - provisional forest/Joan's attack debuff, maybe something else.

Cobblemaniac

06-06-2018, 09:30 AM

insert

Points taken, and many thanks! :bgrin:

As far as I know... as the updates roll in we're gonna see more raid bosses that are unforgiving to stalling teams... right? There was also guild orders (or was it tower?) that require you to clear certain quests in a number of turns...

Definitely a fan of the stalling playstyle, but eh, I might as well change things up a bit.

Also, "my sides", because I was laughing a bit hard thinking about the damage it could do. As well as at myself for taking a minute to figure out why it's such a silly combo

insert

Ah, that sounds pretty much along the initial lines of reasoning I had with regards to why I questioned Slashley's recommended team, which coincidentally was how I came up with slotting in Orpheus and Sol as the last 2 himes.

That said, I think it's time to actually put both teams into testing, considering I can't really decide for myself if I continue to theorycraft. Also because I don't really have the time to think about it :frown:

Anyways, thanks to both of you dudes. Cheers!

Bear

06-06-2018, 11:10 AM

As far as I know... as the updates roll in we're gonna see more raid bosses that are unforgiving to stalling teams... right? There was also guild orders (or was it tower?) that require you to clear certain quests in a number of turns...

Not 100% 'unforgiving' .... just difficult. To the point where sometimes going full offense is much easier than trying to stall.

i.e.

- DUL spams dispel + DoT, which renders all types of long term regen and buff fairly useless. The only way to play long game with her is to multiple healers with cleanse. Not impossible, I've done it, but a huge pain in the ars for sure.

- GO Yggdrasil's rage burst is a AoE 70% HP cut + Posion + Decay, which completely ignores dmg cut and can kill you immediately if your remaining HP is too low to survive the DoT (And more than likely, you will be hitting her 30% hp mark around then and trigger her 20k dmg satellite beam. I hope you have Gaia/Athena.)

- There are mobs in tower that can put a permanently stackable + uncleansable def down debuff on your team.

- Dysnomia

- TRag

Mraktar

06-06-2018, 11:17 AM

Points taken, and many thanks! :bgrin:

Ah, that sounds pretty much along the initial lines of reasoning I had with regards to why I questioned Slashley's recommended team, which coincidentally was how I came up with slotting in Orpheus and Sol as the last 2 himes.

That said, I think it's time to actually put both teams into testing, considering I can't really decide for myself if I continue to theorycraft. Also because I don't really have the time to think about it :frown:

Anyways, thanks to both of you dudes. Cheers!

I not only theorycrafted, but playtested team with Osiris instead of Zephyrus, damage loss is not so big because Zephyrus is r heal type hime with no damaging skill/debuff. Osiris just gives not enough team support to put her as off element hime, but Sol is fine for me even with Hrae, so if you don't have Hrae, you will lose much less then me. I already told my opinion, reinforced by testing, but it's only you who can make ultimate desition.

Unregistered

06-06-2018, 11:18 AM

Mirage

06-06-2018, 11:31 AM

As far as I know... as the updates roll in we're gonna see more raid bosses that are unforgiving to stalling teams... right? There was also guild orders (or was it tower?) that require you to clear certain quests in a number of turns...
Definitely a fan of the stalling playstyle, but eh, I might as well change things up a bit.

From what i see, most content post Wind Ult raid has rather strict dps check, so yes, stalling in general is unlikely to carry you too far.

Guild order second week has a quest that requires you to clear the last stage in 15 turns.

Most high-tier boss simply has too much damage or some mechanic that can easily overwhelm your stalling: Fire Ult with meteor spam, Light ult with 20k death beam, Water ult with 20k double snake and water res down, Acc 5 with 50k+ aoe by 5th turn.....

Special mention to Guild Order Dullahan, who has a special move instead of normal attack, and that is apply DOOM on 1 Hime (which mean BP actually harm u instead, coz her burst is just aoe dot).

Mirage

06-06-2018, 11:34 AM

nonsensei

06-06-2018, 11:42 AM

Aren't future event raids designed to be more anti auto friendly, not so much anti stalling? The impression I recall having at reading the examples were that the stuff they did wasn't hard to resolve if you're actively playing, but can be problematic if you turned on auto and walked away.

This is rather a question of flexibility, if you ask me. There are going to be cases where a player just simply can't go offensive, because he doesn't have the units available, but can clear it with the good ol' turtle method coz that setup is foolproof. There are recommended methods, you can obviously get around them with other means, but they are recommended for a reason.
Another thing to note is that the general approach is to go offensive where you can. Why would you take more time clearing something with the foolproof method if you don't even need to? That, and it's better to know all your setups you got on hand & what they're capable of for tower purposes, if nothing else.

Bear

06-06-2018, 11:51 AM

Uhhh... Illuyanka is actually very aab friendly if you just flick it on starting with T1... 
 
 
 
 
I didn't mention those as those are actually pretty easy to stall. FUL's nuke tickles with a water...

Mirage

06-06-2018, 12:47 PM

Doesnt T1 AAB mean u waste like half of your cooldown on mob then slam your head into 3-layer shield? I guess u can arrange your team so important hime is at the back but that is still pretty...

Bear

06-06-2018, 12:58 PM

Doesnt T1 AAB mean u waste like half of your cooldown on mob then slam your head into 3-layer shield? I guess u can arrange your team so important hime is at the back but that is still pretty annoying.

Oh I meant T1 on boss.

I guess our definition of stalling kinda differ. In those scenario boss will still get their cooldown back much faster than you, so to finish the fight u still need considerable damage which would be quite difficult for a stalling setup with limited spike damage.

tbh i dont think you can even make it to the boss in GO and AQ5 if you don't meet the dps check anyway. i find some of the mobs gimmick more disgusting than the boss themselves.

HugMeTender

06-06-2018, 04:36 PM

So I had an amazing today and scored a big commission bonus from today and was feeling lucky. Pulled Ryu-Oh. Does she work well with Cthulhu? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180606/edc6b5e348aca6ff205670d963e39d77.jpg

Slashley

06-06-2018, 04:54 PM

HugMeTender

06-06-2018, 05:00 PM

Ryu-Oh works well with everything. She covers three vital debuffs, after all.

Do note that you'll absolutely need 6% Affliction from Accessories for her, though. Even then her BP is unreliable-ish, but at least you can rely on her A frames fairly well.Guess the next question that follows is whether Cthulhu or Ryu-Oh gets MLB first. Gonna have to wank up my Thunder team so I can do Accessory 3.

Bear

06-06-2018, 05:14 PM

MagicSpice

06-06-2018, 09:18 PM

Cthulhu.
Both need MLB in order to reach 20% def down of their respective frame (15% without), but Ryuuou's A frame is easy to come by when you join a pub raid. Cthulhu's C frame OTOH, is a lil rarer. Not to mention if you're really desperate for a the extra 5% A frame def down, you can always just slap on Ambush.

given Atalanta is a thing now, C frame for water isn't gonna be as rare in raids (hopefully). still would agree that cthulhu is a better choice than ryu-oh cause they're covering practically the same stuff give or take a few changes

Unregistered

06-07-2018, 02:48 AM

given Atalanta is a thing now, C frame for water isn't gonna be as rare in raids (hopefully). still would agree that cthulhu is a better choice than ryu-oh cause they're covering practically the same stuff give or take a few changes

What the heck are you talking about?

It's Ryu-Oh > Cthulhu
Cthulhus C-Frame is shit and Ryu-Ohs attack and def down doesn't miss than Cthulhus.
Cthulhu just offers a shit def c-frame but Ryu-Oh attack and def down + BP.
BP > Orb eating

What you are saying doesn't make any sense.

Just use Ryu-Oh, snipper and Atlanta --> you reach def cap.
You can't do that with Cthulhu unless you run with Gawain or have one SSR/SR with A or B frame.

Furthermore when we get Wolf Maanaf next year, I would immediately bench Cthulhu/Atlanta.
Ryu-Oh + Wolf Maanaf = 50 def down, 20 attack down and BP.

People just wanted Cthulhu because of her C-frame and you can reach def cap.

Slashley

06-07-2018, 03:12 AM

Unregistered

06-07-2018, 03:22 AM

I think you're selling Cthulhu a bit short there.

Yes, Cthulhu's C frame misses, but with 6% Affliction it's not bad. With 6% Affliction and debuff-, it's reliable, though not 100%.
Orb removal is very powerful, though also very unreliable.
And finally, Cthulhu has Charm. A very potent one at that. Sadly, again, unreliable.

The combination of these three make Cthulhu a very potent package. Sure she might not deliver the best she can every time, but hardly ever will there be a time when all three miss.

That wasn't my intention, sorry.

My point is that it's Ryu-Oh > Cthullu.

Wolf Maanaf offers 30% Water RST down, what also means that Ryu-Oh will land her BP much easier.
Ofc Cthullu's buffs will also land.

However as you can see Ryu-Oh is the better choice.

Furthermore new player will have, starting with the next advent, the opportunity to get old raid Himes.
Getting Gabriel or Atlanta. You can reach with both def cap if you have Cthullu + Gabriel or Ryu-Oh+Atlanta.

However I would go with Ryu-Oh instead because, like I said before, she is the better choice with Wolf-Maanaf.
Cthulhu + Wolf Maanaf isn't that bad but if you have both then Ryu-Oh please. Attack down + BP will save your ass more than Cthulhu later.

Cobblemaniac

06-07-2018, 03:59 AM

I think you're missing a few things here. 
 
This needs stressing IMO: Cthulhu's C frame is AoE. Hits everything. Already helps out a ton in AQ4 trash stages, but with more strong multi-mob stages in...

Slashley

06-07-2018, 04:08 AM

I've failed to meet Ryu-Oh's 18s/turn timer quite a lot, yeah. 
 
And on that note, Vohu Manah's debuff is just 120s, giving you a 20s/turn timer. You can get extra time on Ryu-Oh's timer by having...

Bear

06-07-2018, 04:11 AM

*snip*

Uhhhhh, dude you're missing the point here. The guy in question is just a newbie trying to pick one to MLB first for the time being which is why we told him to MLB Cthulhu first as 20% A frame (the Lv75 upgrade concerning) is easily covered. Doesn't matter if Cthulhu came out from Storm Trooper's Academy, we all know that. Nobody is telling him to not use Ryuuou (He's gonna be using both anyway.)

...... btw. It's Vohu Manah. Btw2, yes Vohu's indeed awesome and all but she isn't gonna be a thing til next year so it's completely irrelevant to the guy's concern at this very moment.

Unregistered

06-07-2018, 04:18 AM

You know that in tower some monster have a high debuff rst? 
You don't want to have Cthulhu their but more damage dealer. 
However for tower you want to have as many Kamihimes as you can for ele adv....

Unregistered

06-07-2018, 04:22 AM

Uhhhhh, dude you're missing the point here. The guy in question is just a newbie trying to pick one to MLB first for the time being which is why we told him to MLB Cthulhu first as 20% A frame (the Lv75 upgrade concerning) is easily covered. Doesn't matter if Cthulhu came out from Storm Trooper's Academy, we all know that. Nobody is telling him to not use Ryuuou (He's gonna be using both anyway.)

...... btw. It's Vohu Manah. Btw2, yes Vohu's indeed awesome and all but she isn't gonna be a thing til next year so it's completely irrelevant to the guy's concern at this very moment.

I missed that point.

LMB Ryu-Oh first, use Cthulhu and run with Snipper.

Sora

06-07-2018, 04:32 AM

It's Vohu Manah

That's her name. Google Translator sucks :sweat:
I am just calling her Wolfi should change it.

Unregistered

06-07-2018, 05:18 AM

Time to put my scripts to good work. auto farming to No.1 in UE =D

Cobblemaniac

06-07-2018, 05:39 AM

You know that in tower some monster have a high debuff rst?
You don't want to have Cthulhu their but more damage dealer.
However for tower you want to have as many Kamihimes as you can for ele adv.
Even Ea....

Furthermore if you use Wolf Maanaf & Ryu-Oh, you cover almost everything. Then you can just use Snipper with Shingen if you need AoE def down.
Furthermore for GO you have to run some missions with a SR team anyway.
Belphegor is also a good solution for AoE def down, if you don't want to use snipper.

Sorry but 10T are enough, unless it's a raid with a lot of people, to use BP again, if you know what you are doing and don't waste your time.

So no, it's not risky.

The AoE doesn’t apply. I shall accept.

The new water res- hime is something I don’t think applies. 10 months is more than enough time for the context to not apply anymore (the context is that a newer player is asking for advice). That’s a point I feel you miss, your advice shoots too far ahead into the meta without consideration for what the current player has. That said, I do concede that from a “if you have everything”standpoint, Ryu-Oh fares better.

If you run GO with an SR only team... why is Ryu-Oh gonna be in there? :neutral:

With regards to BP, if you know what you’re doing, sure. 180 seconds might be enough time for you to scrape by. Remember the periods of lag post-maintenance in even advents though? Let’s say it happens in GO (god forbid it does). You’re gonna have one hell of a fun time. Not to mention you’re going to have to find ways to stall for her BP in multi-stage quests (again, AQ) if you kill waves that require BP, but die before 10 turns.

Unregistered

06-07-2018, 06:43 AM

The AoE doesn’t apply. I shall accept.

The new water res- hime is something I don’t think applies. 10 months is more than enough time for the context to not apply anymore (the context is that a newer player is asking for advice). That’s a point I feel you miss, your advice shoots too far ahead into the meta without consideration for what the current player has. That said, I do concede that from a “if you have everything”standpoint, Ryu-Oh fares better.

Tbh I didn't even know that some newbie was asking a question.
I just read that someone was saying Cthullu is overall the better choice than Ryu-Oh.
Ofc that's not true anymore and I wanted to correct it.
Yes, it's my fault that I didn't read what the context was about.

If you main water, then yes you should use Ryu-Oh over Cthullu later. Otherwise you souldn't care about it now.
My point was about Cthullu > Ryu-Oh, nothing more.
Like you said that'll be the case in 8 months, not 10. Still before your 5th Miracle Ticket.

If you run GO with an SR only team... why is Ryu-Oh gonna be in there? :neutral:
Why would you?
I forgot to mention, that you want to have Atalanta and Belphegor for this challange and run with Ambush.

With regards to BP, if you know what you’re doing, sure. 180 seconds might be enough time for you to scrape by. Remember the periods of lag post-maintenance in even advents though? Let’s say it happens in GO (god forbid it does). You’re gonna have one hell of a fun time. Not to mention you’re going to have to find ways to stall for her BP in multi-stage quests (again, AQ) if you kill waves that require BP, but die before 10 turns.

I don't play on nutaku.
For GO you don't need BP, if you do enough damage.
To have BP is always nice and ofc it's always BP > Orb remove.

Cobblemaniac

06-07-2018, 07:15 AM

I don't play on nutaku.

Actually, don't mind if I derail this, since I think the question has been answered.

Is it better if I stick to Nutaku, or is switching to DMM KP better in the long run?

Unregistered

06-07-2018, 07:23 AM

Actually, don't mind if I derail this, since I think the question has been answered.

Is it better if I stick to Nutaku, or is switching to DMM KP better in the long run?

Tbh, that's your choice. Even if you start on DMM you won't get your time back.
That means the time you invested in your account and grid.

HugMeTender

06-07-2018, 10:12 AM

Wow, all you boys fighting over little 'ol me

Mraktar

06-07-2018, 12:07 PM

That wasn't my intention, sorry.

My point is that it's Ryu-Oh > Cthullu.

Wolf Maanaf offers 30% Water RST down, what also means that Ryu-Oh will land her BP much easier.
Ofc Cthullu's buffs will also land.

However as you can see Ryu-Oh is the better choice.

Furthermore new player will have, starting with the next advent, the opportunity to get old raid Himes.
Getting Gabriel or Atlanta. You can reach with both def cap if you have Cthullu + Gabriel or Ryu-Oh+Atlanta.

However I would go with Ryu-Oh instead because, like I said before, she is the better choice with Wolf-Maanaf.
Cthulhu + Wolf Maanaf isn't that bad but if you have both then Ryu-Oh please. Attack down + BP will save your ass more than Cthulhu later.

Atlanta is current raid hime actualy so no one need to wait for that ticket. As for Maanaf or how she is called correctly - she is amazing, only problem that her debuff is only 120 sec and requires 30 burst to spend. And about Ctulhu (i have her on other account) - her skills are very unstable with no Vof at least, especialy orb drain. Only attack down almost always hits, so i guess that Ruy-Oh is better with Atlanta for c-frame def down.

Sora

06-07-2018, 12:11 PM

Atlanta is current raid hime actualy so no one need to wait for that ticket. As for Maanaf or how she is called correctly - she is amazing, only problem that her debuff is only 120 sec and requires 30 burst to spend. And about Ctulhu (i have her on other account) - her skills are very unstable with no Vof at least, especialy orb drain. Only attack down almost always hits, so i guess that Ruy-Oh is better with Atlanta for c-frame def down.

IIRC you get 30BG immediately if you combine Abi 1 and 2. Therefore it isn't a big deal.
120 sec isn't a problem because the CD is 6T. Should be enough, if it dosen't lag.

I guess he meant the people who starts after this raid event.
They won't have Atalanta.

nonsensei

06-07-2018, 01:08 PM

And about Ctulhu (i have her on other account) - her skills are very unstable with no Vof at least, especialy orb drain.

Why is this concept still alive? Go, try using orb drain against wind disaster/catastrophe a few times & think again.

Mraktar

06-07-2018, 01:26 PM

Why is this concept still alive? Go, try using orb drain against wind disaster/catastrophe a few times & think again.

Do you mean that failture chance will be almost 100%? That's what i'm trying to say - if it will hit, it's fine, but there is no reason to expect it too often. It's just a little dddition to attack/def debuffs, like dizzness.

nonsensei

06-07-2018, 01:53 PM

Do you mean that failture chance will be almost 100%? That's what i'm trying to say - if it will hit, it's fine, but there is no reason to expect it too often. It's just a little dddition to attack/def debuffs, like dizzness.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/263690964399423489/453288983485480960/Nergal.png

Bear

06-07-2018, 02:01 PM

Lemme borrow that:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/263690964399423489/453288983485480960/Nergal.png

*sigh*

Blob eating chance is fixed. Enemy resistance does not affect its rate.

Slashley

06-07-2018, 02:38 PM

Blob eating chance is fixed. Enemy resistance does not affect its rate.Has anyone bothered to make a statistic on the chances of it, by the way?
Both Cthulhu and Snow Raphael seem to have a ~50/50 chance, but it's not like I have ANY data on it.

Dunhere

06-07-2018, 04:13 PM

Having used both a fair bit, they feel better than 50%, but I've never done any recording to work out the rates.

MagicSpice

06-07-2018, 04:24 PM

Cobblemaniac

06-07-2018, 05:38 PM

I've yet to see snow raph miss on my end and i had her fire it over 20 times by now... Even her quad debuffs (stun, stun, atk, def) had missed it's atk and def debuffs at least 3 times each by now. Light raph missed at least twice since I had her though, which is twice as long as her snow version

But maybe that's just me. Now if only Jack frost wasn't the opposite cause hers only worked TWICE since I got her

That's the point of Jack Frost. She's a free raid eido and her active is supposed to make you pray and cry for it to work. If you wanted something that actually works more, we have the dark 100% eidolon.

Double post edit: gem quest should be working fine now.

The fact that they call this a “minor bug” bothers me...

Unregistered

06-08-2018, 03:05 AM

hi all.
how to get ssr eidolons like the ones upping 100?
been playing for too long and always got like a million kamis.

BlazeAlter

06-08-2018, 03:17 AM

hi all.
how to get ssr eidolons like the ones upping 100?
been playing for too long and always got like a million kamis.

you mean those 100% eidos?
u either drop a sht ton of money and whale a lot on the gacha/promo gachas with their "rate ups" and pray RNG gives u at least one of them

or you save 150 draconic eyes and wait for that special edition miracle ticket that lets you pick anything you want in the game

those 100% eidos have REALLY LOW drop rates, and they are mostly whale bait

Slashley

06-08-2018, 03:19 AM

hi all.
how to get ssr eidolons like the ones upping 100?
been playing for too long and always got like a million kamis.By "upping 100" you mean the P2W Eidolons, the ones that give 100% Elemental attack? Those are from paid gacha only. And extremely rare.

Although we don't know the exact numbers, you can assume that finding one will cost you 10 000 dollars on average.

nonsensei

06-08-2018, 03:31 AM

Slashley

06-08-2018, 03:42 AM

You guys really talk like you can only get them by throwing money at the game, but you can get them just fine from Magic Jewels, Prem tickets, etc. as well. Certainly, you need a shit ton of luck to land one, but they are in the pool of F2P gachas, too.True. But Jewels are limited, whileas real money is not (for some, anyway).

The amount of Jewels needed for the same amount of pulls as 10 000 dollars is 1m Jewels. You won't get 1m Jewels in your lifetime of playing Kamihime. Well, I guess if the game runs for 10 years.

As such, it can be said that the average person will simply not draw a P2W Eidolon from the Jewel Gacha. Is it possible? Yes it is. Has it happened? Yes it has. Will it happen to you?
No.

blubbergott

06-08-2018, 03:49 AM

Although we don't know the exact numbers, you can assume that finding one will cost you 10 000 dollars on average.

Or you just do 5 rate up pulls like me and get 2 of them. :)

BlazeAlter

06-08-2018, 04:00 AM

Well
getting one for free or with a low amount of pulls = EX Rank luck++++++++

and you can't always expect luck to be on your side (unless you're a god and you can manipulate your luck which i highly doubt, and not everyone has the same luck)

not to say that i don't want one, nor am I discouraging others in trying to get them either
im also not trying to be negative or anything but that's just how they are, baits for whales
im kinda just being realistic, because not everyone is gonna have one of those, you can try but its never certain (ive seen some whale friends try and quit cuz they never got one)

nonsensei

06-08-2018, 04:34 AM

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/295604418131394561.png?v=1

Unregistered

06-08-2018, 05:05 AM

I got Rudra with a Premium Ticket and a union mate got Kirin with jewels.

Therefore it's not impossible.

Yo
u guys are just a bit to realistic and pessimistic.

Sterling Jack

06-08-2018, 05:19 AM

I got Rudra with a Premium Ticket and a union mate got Kirin with jewels.

Yeah I got Hraesvelgr on back to back jewel pulls for 105% even. You just have to let it happen.
The best part was I didn't know who she was, so my first though was "gd some sht win edo".

Mraktar

06-08-2018, 05:22 AM

I got Rudra with a Premium Ticket and a union mate got Kirin with jewels.

Therefore it's not impossible.

Yo
u guys are just a bit to realistic and pessimistic.

I've got Hrae with jewels too, but it was all my luck concentrated in one point, because all my attempts to get Cybele/Seth/at least something else wind had terrible result.

Even if there was a hundred people posting "I got P2W from Jewels/Premium Ticket!!!1" in a row, it won't change the fact that for each one, there's over a 100 players who have used as many pulls and NOT gotten one.

It's not unrealistic to expect not finding a P2W Eidolon, it's unrealistic to expect to find a P2W Eidolon (without some very, very deep RL pockets).

I completely agree with this statement. And it's not only for P2W eydos, but limited edition hime, MLB weapons from raid event gacha and many other things. Kamihime is too luck based.

BlazeAlter

06-08-2018, 05:25 AM

I got Rudra with a Premium Ticket and a union mate got Kirin with jewels.

Therefore it's not impossible.

Yo
u guys are just a bit to realistic and pessimistic.
Double checks own posts*
:think: I never said its impossible though... nor am I being a pessimist
its just better to keep your expectations on an average level (not too low, like why even try if you don't think you're gonna win something? or not TOO high like "I am so gonna win three 100% eidos in just a single 10 jewel roll")

and like I said, LUCK.

Slashley

06-08-2018, 05:29 AM

Even if there was a hundred people posting "I got P2W from Jewels/Premium Ticket!!!1" in a row, it won't change the fact that for each one, there's over a 100 players who have used as many pulls and NOT gotten one.

It's not unrealistic to expect not finding a P2W Eidolon, it's unrealistic to expect to find a P2W Eidolon (without some very, very deep RL pockets).

nonsensei

06-08-2018, 05:56 AM

*sigh*
You guys basically stated that 100% eidos are only available through paid gachas, which I corrected, and even added that the chance are low, nevertheless. Dunno what's the point dragging this.

BlazeAlter

06-08-2018, 06:12 AM

Oh, well sorry about that. was only trying to say they have really low rates on my first reply :neutral: wasn't trying to say they weren't obtainable in jewel gacha/tickets too

Ikki

06-08-2018, 12:14 PM

HugMeTender

06-08-2018, 12:16 PM

I'm having the issue where Thunder weapons are significantly better than my other weapon sets (my Thunder Eidolon are decent) , yet my Thunder Kami are mediocre at best. I need more Thunder SR D: any good Thunder R that are borderline SR level?

Slashley

06-08-2018, 01:20 PM

Calling them P2W eidos (in that case every single kh you dont get in a rate up is a p2w kamihime) is so dumb, shows how salty people are XD they are in the jewell gacha pool as well as premium tickets, just because you cant get them doesnt mean they are P2W eidos, they are just really rare and strong eidos thats it, really bad use of the p2w term, and no i dont have one.They're called P2W because they increase your damage output to a whole different level, and furthermore because they're not accessible. That's basically the very definition of P2W in any game.
I'm having the issue where Thunder weapons are significantly better than my other weapon sets (my Thunder Eidolon are decent) , yet my Thunder Kami are mediocre at best. I need more Thunder SR D: any good Thunder R that are borderline SR level?Not really... the closest one is probably Perun, due to damage cut. But with long CD and fairly low %, she's really nothing to write home about.

The newest two additions, Rhea and Tlaloc, have decent damage output for Rs, but even then they're not really going to be a match for even bad SRs.

HugMeTender

06-08-2018, 01:23 PM

They're called P2W because they increase your damage output to a whole different level, and furthermore because they're not accessible. That's basically the very definition of P2W in any game.Not really... the closest one is probably Perun, due to damage cut. But with long CD and fairly low %, she's really nothing to write home about.

The newest two additions, Rhea and Tlaloc, have decent damage output for Rs, but even then they're not really going to be a match for even bad SRs.Right now the only SR I have are Baal, Kingu, and Nemesis. I'm severely lacking in heals (though I guess I have damage mitigation and sustain to some degree) and debuffs. My SSR are Athena and Brahma, so still no debuffs. No Soul can make up for both my lack of heals and debuffs right? Lol

Kimoi

06-08-2018, 01:36 PM

They're called P2W because they increase your damage output to a whole different level, and furthermore because they're not accessible. That's basically the very definition of P2W in any game.
On the other hand, 100% eidos provide most of their boost at 0* -- they're immediately useful to any player who makes a lucky draw. I'd argue the Kaiser Dragoons are more P2W than them.

Mraktar

06-08-2018, 01:46 PM

Right now the only SR I have are Baal, Kingu, and Nemesis. I'm severely lacking in heals (though I guess I have damage mitigation and sustain to some degree) and debuffs. My SSR are Athena and Brahma, so still no debuffs. No Soul can make up for both my lack of heals and debuffs right? Lol

Thunder have no heal (wait for december), thunder has great problems with debuffs (Mammon/ soul - especialy Darty+relic gun+ambush = 30/50% from just soul). If you want heal - take Cassy/SS, it's the only option for now, or take off element heal (at least Nike) and debuff soul.

Edit: Kayser dragons are not PTW at all - they can be grindable for 10k orbs in orb store (about 2 month left).

Slashley

06-08-2018, 02:09 PM

Right now the only SR I have are Baal, Kingu, and Nemesis.Nemesis and Kingu are amongst the best Thunder SRs, which sadly isn't a very high bar (Astraea and Thunder Artemis are the better ones). King certainly deserves a spot on the frontlines then,
I'm severely lacking in heals (though I guess I have damage mitigation and sustain to some degree) --There are absolutely no healer Thunder Hime out now, so lacking in heals is quite expected. Limited heals coming up in August and January, a raid SR in December and finally the "I've got the best heals, anywhere!" in April next year. I guess DMM got sick and tired of the playerbase complaining about the lack of heals in Thunder, heh.

Anyway, Thunder's healer is Sol for the longest time into the future.
--and debuffs.-- No Soul can make up for both my lack of heals and debuffs right? LolDude... have you looked at Thunder's debuff capability?

Current Def Down Hime:
SSR Tyr (A -10%, -15% Awakened)

Current Atk Down Hime:
SSR Raiko (A -15%)
SR Cyclops (C -15%)
SSR Marduk (C -20%)

... that's it. No, seriously, that's it.

The things you find yourself "lacking" in Thunder is just business as usual over there. There's a reason why Thunder is frowned upon.

So, can your Soul do your debuffs? Yes. Dartagnan equipped with Charles Blast and Ambush. While everyone else gets to play around with Hercules' and her OP Relic weapon, Thunder users are pretty much forced to stick to Charles Blast for many months to come.
On the other hand, 100% eidos provide most of their boost at 0* -- they're immediately useful to any player who makes a lucky draw. I'd argue the Kaiser Dragoons are more P2W than them.While true that they are powerful and a large reason why the whaliest of whales are so far above normal players in power-levels, Kaisers don't compare to P2W Eidolons. Just like P2W Eidolons, a large portion of their benefit comes at 0-stars. However, unlike P2W Eidolons, you can buy one each per element from Eidolon Orbs.

Each LMB +99 Kaiser is 5-7% DPS boost, with slightly diminishing returns upon further ones. So you need all five sub-slots at LMB Kaisers to reach the benefit of a 0-star P2W Eidolon.
Considering the extremely powerful on-use of Kaisers, yeah, sure. If you go that far, then Kaisers are more P2W than P2W Eidolons. What kind of a sum are we talking about here, though?

HugMeTender

06-08-2018, 02:26 PM

Dude... have you looked at Thunder's debuff capability?

Current Def Down Hime:
SSR Tyr (A -10%, -15% Awakened)

Current Atk Down Hime:
SSR Raiko (A -15%)
SR Cyclops (C -15%)
SSR Marduk (C -20%)

... that's it. No, seriously, that's it.

The things you find yourself "lacking" in Thunder is just business as usual over there. There's a reason why Thunder is frowned upon.

So, can your Soul do your debuffs? Yes. Dartagnan equipped with Charles Blast and Ambush. While everyone else gets to play around with Hercules' and her OP Relic weapon, Thunder users are pretty much forced to stick to Charles Blast for many months to come.

I meant there were no souls that come be both a decent healer AND debuffer since Thunder lacked the elemental ability to do either. I know a Soul could do either one well, just not both. I'm just stingy and don't want an off element healer.

Deus5659

06-08-2018, 02:41 PM

Is it better to use R weapons with beneficial skills or to use SR and SSR weapons of a different element than my team?

Slashley

06-08-2018, 03:07 PM

Ideally you'll want to farm Disasters for SR Assault weapons and use those, you should probably try to ignore R weapons.

But if you're a new player, you might need to use R weapons in the primary slot just to get the element you want for your Soul.

blubbergott

06-08-2018, 03:46 PM

So, can your Soul do your debuffs? Yes. Dartagnan equipped with Charles Blast and Ambush. While everyone else gets to play around with Hercules' and her OP Relic weapon, Thunder users are pretty much forced to stick to Charles Blast for many months to come.

By the time Herc's relic weapon is out, Mammon will be out too though. If you don't have Mammon, then Herc + Sniper is also always an option. 3 months later, Baal gives you another way more efficient option than relying on D'Art. D'Art is just nice currently because without Mammon and without Herc relic weapon, it's next to impossible to get decent debuffs. At least that's my opinion on it. I traded in D'Art gun, since it'll be helpful for WaRag farming (and i got Kirin, so ele atk ain't the biggest deal for me), but once I get better options, i'll definitely switch.

HugMeTender

06-08-2018, 05:47 PM

So now I pulled Huanglong.... Thus my Thunder Eidolon setup is way stronger than any other element. (considering I only have a few for other elements)

Looks like I'll start focusing on building Thunder?

I'm close to awakening Sol, but I don't have an incredible line-up to back my Light team.

Edit: To be clear, my Thunder weapons vastly outstrip other element weapons; both in limit breaks and assault percentage.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180608/32e0c31935d4cbe6609b9a3604667dbd.jpg

Slashley

06-08-2018, 06:59 PM

HugMeTender

06-08-2018, 07:21 PM

Umm, why do you put all these Thunder Eidolons into one team?
Only the Primary one will give you the passive. The rest are just stat-sticks. The remaining five should be whatever have your highest stats.

I was just trying to show my favorite Thunder Eidolon without sending multiple pictures.

Only now do I remember the "inventory" screen exists...

I guess Huanglong has the best

MagicSpice

06-08-2018, 07:27 PM

I was just trying to show my favorite Thunder Eidolon without sending multiple pictures.

Only now do I remember the "inventory" screen exists...

I guess Huanglong has the best

yeah, i got an MLB Amaru, but also got an MLB huanglong... I think she might still end up being my lead due to the stats and the fact that 20% more HP with 60% assault (i'm not packing much on thunder) doesn't hurt.

even when i do eventually drop her out my lead spot (there's bound to be better and amaru isn't fully leveled yet), MLB huanglong is packing far too much attack to get removed, so she'll still be in support (plus the stun duration increase is nice)

in fact, mine is as strong as she's gonna get...

10271

HugMeTender

06-08-2018, 08:03 PM

yeah, i got an MLB Amaru, but also got an MLB huanglong... I think she might still end up being my lead due to the stats and the fact that 20% more HP with 60% assault (i'm not packing much on thunder) doesn't hurt.

even when i do eventually drop her out my lead spot (there's bound to be better and amaru isn't fully leveled yet), MLB huanglong is packing far too much attack to get removed, so she'll still be in support (plus the stun duration increase is nice)

in fact, mine is as strong as she's gonna get...

10271

I'm familiar with your bitter-sweet relationship with Huanglong, lol. And that one Fire Axe.

grats on Shamash.

MooShoes

06-08-2018, 11:00 PM

The 1500 coin gacha was nice and gave me Set and now the only wind SSR himes that i am missing are Titania and Hastur who i might pull with the next miracle ticket.

I then noticed that Wind Poseidon is almost upon us. Can she be a replacement for Hastur or should i save my jewels for something else (probably Thunder Ryu Oh)?

nazrin992

06-09-2018, 04:26 AM

Fire Disaster loot. And it's Standard.

10275

Tanukimo

06-09-2018, 05:32 AM

Good for you.

Mraktar

06-09-2018, 07:12 AM

Fire Disaster loot. And it's Standard.

10275

Today i've got 2 thunder axes from single raid, but from ulti, so you are not alone. Unfortunately i don't play thunder. Never seen this before.

Maria

06-09-2018, 08:25 AM

Fire Disaster loot. And it's Standard.

10275

I really want those SR spears atm.

Unregistered

06-09-2018, 08:56 AM

Should I equip to copies of the same weapon? (1 MLB + 1 1star)?

What should I do if I have an extra copy of eids that I already MLB?

Thanks

Mraktar

06-09-2018, 09:00 AM

Should I equip to copies of the same weapon? (1 MLB + 1 1star)?

What should I do if I have an extra copy of eids that I already MLB?

Thanks
Eydolon - keep untill orb store will be open, then sell. Weapon - it depends on other weapons, if they are realy bad - then why not to use it, else - use them as skill fodder.

Kimoi

06-09-2018, 09:02 AM

Should I equip to copies of the same weapon? (1 MLB + 1 1star)?

What should I do if I have an extra copy of eids that I already MLB?

Thanks
Depends on the weapon, and on your grid.
If you're talking about a SSR Assault++ or Assault/Defender, chances are it'll be of use even at 1*.

Save your extra SSR eidolons for when the eidolon shop gets implemented (probably between August and October).

Aidoru

06-09-2018, 02:27 PM

Anyone having issues with buying NG? Was thinking about grabbing the half off gacha but paypal isn't being accepted for the first option anymore for me.

Slashley

06-09-2018, 04:57 PM

Just to confirm, you're using .com side since you want to use PayPal, right?

Aidoru

06-09-2018, 05:15 PM

I've never logged onto the .com version before, so unless it's redirecting me to it without me being aware, I can't say I am.

When I buy, I just click the gold icon on the top, select the first option (the 'Visa, MC, Discover, etc' option), select the amount of NG and then it sends me to probiller and opens up paypal after it loads. Now it doesn't and instead probiller redirects me to another way to buy.

I can probably still using this other method but well, I'd prefer to use paypal if I could.

Slashley

06-09-2018, 07:27 PM

russ

06-09-2018, 07:32 PM

is there a way to tell the difference between ability damage and attack up on accessories? or is nutaku just lazy and used the same icon?

Aidoru

06-09-2018, 08:09 PM

Paypal doesn't do business with porn sites. .net is a porn site. If you've been able to buy with Paypal using .net before, then something was wrong.

Use .com, it's not a porn site and as such, Paypal will work. Nutaku gold is shared between the sites as far as I know.

That seems to be the problem, tried logging onto the .com version and redirects normally. Weird though, it always worked fine before on the .net version until today. Not sure what caused this but I guess as long as it works.

MagicSpice

06-09-2018, 08:21 PM

is there a way to tell the difference between ability damage and attack up on accessories? or is nutaku just lazy and used the same icon?

nope. gotta go into the accessory since ability damage and attack up always had the same icons...

that never was nutaku's fault, more like the devs behind KamiPro

Paypal doesn't do business with porn sites. .net is a porn site. If you've been able to buy with Paypal using .net before, then something was wrong.

Use .com, it's not a porn site and as such, Paypal will work. Nutaku gold is shared between the sites as far as I know.

i always thought it just routes you to a different biller site in general...

Unregistered

06-09-2018, 08:48 PM

Depends on the weapon, and on your grid.
If you're talking about a SSR Assault++ or Assault/Defender, chances are it'll be of use even at 1*.

Save your extra SSR eidolons for when the eidolon shop gets implemented (probably between August and October).

Ohhh.. Thanks. I have the SSR extras for Amaru and Tiamat events.

Slashley

06-10-2018, 02:55 AM

is there a way to tell the difference between ability damage and attack up on accessories? or is nutaku just lazy and used the same icon?As said, it was DMM that gave the two the exact same icon.

At some point, the Ability damage icon was changed to a spiral-ish thing. But I don't know when we're getting that. Could be like 2-3 months away, there's a UI redesign coming up around then.

russ

06-10-2018, 09:11 AM

nope. gotta go into the accessory since ability damage and attack up always had the same icons...

that never was nutaku's fault, more like the devs behind KamiPro

i always thought it just routes you to a different biller site in general...

As said, it was DMM that gave the two the exact same icon.

At some point, the Ability damage icon was changed to a spiral-ish thing. But I don't know when we're getting that. Could be like 2-3 months away, there's a UI redesign coming up around then.

thanks for the info shits getting annoying hope they fix it soon

HugMeTender

06-10-2018, 05:37 PM

Is it even worth MLBing Kingu if I already have Athena? Athena (seems) like she does what Kingu does just with better stats.

Cobblemaniac

06-10-2018, 07:32 PM

Is it even worth MLBing Kingu if I already have Athena? Athena (seems) like she does what Kingu does just with better stats.

The rule of thumb is to eventually max every hime on your hand out. You'll thank yourself for doing that when future content (GO iirc) requires you to clear with a certain rarity cap to get rewards. And current content too, even though the only remotely relevant one is R hime in advent ulti.

MagicSpice

06-10-2018, 09:22 PM

Mraktar

06-10-2018, 10:48 PM

The rule of thumb is to eventually max every hime on your hand out. You'll thank yourself for doing that when future content (GO iirc) requires you to clear with a certain rarity cap to get rewards. And current content too, even though the only remotely relevant one is R hime in advent ulti.

When we are talking about rares - yes, MLB them all, but SR/SSR - books are limiting factor for MLB, so MLB only those, who have very good improvement in second skill or SSR, that you are planing to awake. Keep the rest on LB3 and maximum lvl, they may be usefull later in tower/GO/advent challenges.

Edit: you have 2 sub slots to level up kami that you don't want to play now, use them as combat reserve only on hard content (like AQ/advent rognaroks etc.)

Cobblemaniac

06-10-2018, 11:46 PM

When we are talking about rares - yes, MLB them all, but SR/SSR - books are limiting factor for MLB, so MLB only those, who have very good improvement in second skill or SSR, that you are planing to awake. Keep the rest on LB3 and maximum lvl, they may be usefull later in tower/GO/advent challenges.

Edit: you have 2 sub slots to level up kami that you don't want to play now, use them as combat reserve only on hard content (like AQ/advent rognaroks etc.)

Good points. I did say eventually, because you're eventually gonna gather enough materials to do so.

As far as books go, an interesting source other than events would be the raid eidolon store. Of course, eidolons are the absolute top priority, but one may choose to trade for books if they wish. And besides, I believe you can get a couple of bonus eidostore points by trading in R non-enhance eidos for 2 points, which you can get like 20-40 of from the regular gemcha, if what I'm reading and remembering from gtranslate is correct.

Slashley

06-11-2018, 12:13 AM

--
As far as books go, an interesting source other than events would be the raid eidolon store. --In about a week, you can buy 10 SR and 10 SSR books from each Advent. That will seriously help you MLB everything that you want to MLB.

150+100+50+50 10 SR books (10)
0+250+200+100 SSR books (10)

Total cost of them. Not that bad, considering how SSR Eidolon and Weapon costs have been entirely gutted (like how raid content went down from 200 -> 50 required Souls).

SlickFenix

06-11-2018, 12:35 AM

For a short period they did have the Ability Damage icon missing, and it was easy to tell which accessories had which abilities. But that also came with other issues in gameplay. They made a shadow update that uploaded the new image and you were able to tell. However, the very next maintenance, it reverted back to the old way.

Here is a quick tip for equipping Accessories.

When you first equip an accessory to a Kami, it doesn't confirm the stats with you it just equips it. What you can do is keep an R or N accessory of each element in your inventory. Then when you go to add a new accessory to a Kami you can first equip the N or R accessory, then go to replace it and find the exact one you want to add. It's an extra step, but it works and will keep you from wasting gems equipping the wrong SR or SSR Accessories.

Slashley

06-11-2018, 01:08 AM

I just lock all useful accessories, so I can just find the one with a lock-icon on it. :sweat:

VeryVoodoo

06-11-2018, 01:17 AM

When you have an inventory consisting of many locked items though, the lock icon doesn't always help. A lot can have very similar looking rolls. Slick's method helps to check/confirm. It's what I do as well.

Cobblemaniac

06-11-2018, 01:19 AM

Shieun

06-11-2018, 03:42 AM

Use slick's method and then just lock those with Atk up and leave the one with atk abilities unlocked. You can then decide whether you want to keep those when you do your enhancement

Save for a few himes, you probably will end up foddering most of those atk abilities up anyway...

Minazuki

06-11-2018, 05:56 AM

Can somebody tell me the account priority when rerolling? Like %100 eidolon + same element ssr kamihime>%100 eidolon + different element ssr kamihime>%100 eidolon>...

Slashley

06-11-2018, 06:01 AM

Can somebody tell me the account priority when rerolling? Like %100 eidolon + same element ssr kamihime>%100 eidolon + different element ssr kamihime>%100 eidolon>...Generally something like 100% Eidolon > core SSR Hime > 2x SSR Hime of the same element

Those seem to be the typically most common recommendations on this forum, try not settle for less.

Minazuki

06-11-2018, 06:12 AM

I have four account right. First has 3 different element SSR kamihimes. Second has Belial. Third has Ifrit and Amaterasu. Last one has 2 different element SSR kamihimes with event Eidolons like Medusa. None of them is LMB. So Should I use second?

BlazeAlter

06-11-2018, 06:15 AM

Unregistered

06-11-2018, 07:19 AM

Thank you for your replies. Then I will use the Belial.

MagicSpice

06-11-2018, 10:23 AM

Generally something like 100% Eidolon > core SSR Hime > 2x SSR Hime of the same element

Those seem to be the typically most common recommendations on this forum, try not settle for less.

with enough persistence, you can meet all 3 of those requirements... like getting belial, mars, and svarog all in one roll

if you're gonna reroll, might as well stop at nothing short of all 3 of those requirements...

Slashley

06-11-2018, 10:36 AM

with enough persistence, you can meet all 3 of those requirements... like getting belial, mars, and svarog all in one roll

if you're gonna reroll, might as well stop at nothing short of all 3 of those requirements...In theory, yes, but... uuh, that's not realististic at all.

For example, getting Belial might take you a thousand rerolls. So, you want to get _A_ Fire SSR with Belial? That will probably take you like a hundred Belials before you get that. So, is one hundred thousand rerolls worth your time...?

Minazuki

06-11-2018, 11:20 AM

Slashley

06-11-2018, 11:25 AM

Belial alone will give your Fire stuff double damage, so it's rather difficult for non-Fire Hime to compare. I guess only if they can bring a debuff that you can't bring with your Fire team.

Minazuki

06-11-2018, 11:29 AM

So as long as I use a soul which can inflicit debuffs I should use fire himes whether they are R, SR or SSR.

nazrin992

06-11-2018, 11:56 AM

>starting with fire team at this point

Rest in Pepperonis. Cuz you better be whaling to get better stuffs for your fire team :squint:

Otherwise, keep rerolling.

BTW, 100% eido is not the best deal when you don't have good girls for your team. 100% eido is just a bonus.

Hypnos

06-11-2018, 12:44 PM

BTW, 100% eido is not the best deal when you don't have good girls for your team. 100% eido is just a bonus.

Well belial would help a lot since its an instant boost which is some compensation for the lack of weapons. :think:

Slashley

06-11-2018, 12:57 PM

>starting with fire team at this point

Rest in Pepperonis. Cuz you better be whaling to get better stuffs for your fire team :squint:The same argument can be made for every element at this stage. At least Fire is getting three events in a fairly short time.
BTW, 100% eido is not the best deal when you don't have good girls for your team. 100% eido is just a bonus.100% Eidolon gets you better friends, which gets you really far. One core Hime won't get you as far as one P2W Eidolon either.

nonsensei

06-11-2018, 01:25 PM

So is it just me who finds the P2W term odd used in an environment that suggests getting it through free means? :think: I.e.: rerolling in this case.

HugMeTender

06-11-2018, 04:34 PM

So I'm having a hard time deciding which Thunder Raid shop weapon to get.. One has assault, but the other boosts Sniper Shot.. Any insight?

Kimoi

06-11-2018, 04:59 PM

So I'm having a hard time deciding which Thunder Raid shop weapon to get.. One has assault, but the other boosts Sniper Shot.. Any insight?
The HP one, no contest. Those extra 10% debuffs really help Thunder.

blubbergott

06-11-2018, 05:03 PM

So is it just me who finds the P2W term odd used in an environment that suggests getting it through free means? :think: I.e.: rerolling in this case.

rerolling takes time -> time = money -> rerolling = p2w :eyeroll:

Mraktar

06-11-2018, 10:11 PM

When building a fire team should I use R fire kamihimes. For example I have Belial, 2 SR fire kamihimes and 2 R fire kamihimes. Should I use R kamihimes or use 2 SR or SSR kamihimes with different element?

If you have Belial, you want to avoid using off-element hime as possible. You may take 1 off-element great support hime (like Sol/at least Nike if you still need heal), but no more because you will lose damage with off-element, so taking offence hime is pointless. But lucky to you, fire has many good r/sr himes, like Konohana or Nergal for example so there is nothing wrong to use them.

nonsensei

06-12-2018, 01:30 AM

rerolling takes time -> time = money -> rerolling = p2w :eyeroll:

Dammit, flawless logic. How could I even not take that into account? Thank you for the eye-opener. :wink:

Ikki

06-12-2018, 02:00 AM

2muchsarcasm4me

MagicSpice

06-12-2018, 11:46 PM

In theory, yes, but... uuh, that's not realististic at all.

For example, getting Belial might take you a thousand rerolls. So, you want to get _A_ Fire SSR with Belial? That will probably take you like a hundred Belials before you get that. So, is one hundred thousand rerolls worth your time...?

hey, if you're rerolling, you might as well start big...

unless you want/have that sort of money to throw at the game... to make up for it later.

nothing is stopping you but your own patience considering you can just make more accounts and try again

Bear

06-13-2018, 11:04 PM

Meanwhile on DMM

Guess who's back?
https://i.imgur.com/zoomZEk.png

Cobblemaniac

06-13-2018, 11:08 PM

Meanwhile on DMM

Guess who's back?
cancer

I almost thought they somehow introduced raid reprints and introduced true ragnarok...

But that's GO isn't it?

Also god that damage is disgusting.

Bear

06-13-2018, 11:10 PM

Cobblemaniac

06-13-2018, 11:17 PM

It's GO. Remember her rage nuke back then? She has that as AoE now. And it's not even a burst. It's a trigger special attack that goes kaboom every time you try to debuff her.

...Lemme borrow this:
https://harem-battle.club/attachment.php?attachmentid=10160&d=1526924131&thumb=1

Inb4 someone tried to use Mordred against this abomination. :neutral:

Does she still cleanse the debuffs? And also what are her normal/ rage bursts now?

Bear

06-13-2018, 11:20 PM

That guy in the screenshot didn't use Mord. He used Samael's debuff which ended up the same. And yes, she still cleanses. And this time, it's not limited to 5. She cleanses everything. Dunno what her normal burst is yet. But her rage burst is another 6~7k AoE that has nothing to do with debuff she has. Just a plain hard hitting AoE.

BlazeAlter

06-13-2018, 11:55 PM

Meanwhile on DMM

Guess who's back?
:ridiculous baron rape image:

Me when I see a huge number like that
10302

seriously, how df do you even deal with that?
I know its probably something like not to bring a ton of debuffs and all (or maybe not bring any debuffs at all and just go full damage dealer? since debuffs trigger that thing), but still.. that seems like a hard fight to deal with

Mirage

06-14-2018, 12:02 AM

Let me tell you the good part: you dont get to have 15 people gang up on her this time (No Elixir spam either)

BlazeAlter

06-14-2018, 12:09 AM

Let me tell you the good part: you dont get to have 15 people gang up on her this time (No Elixir spam either)

so basically
http://i64.tinypic.com/wakktx.png

Slashley

06-14-2018, 12:54 AM

seriously, how df do you even deal with that?Since it's a trigger, you just don't trigger it.

So, you'll take double damage from not having Atk- and you'll deal half damage from not having Def-. Lovely.

nonsensei

06-14-2018, 01:23 AM

MagicSpice

06-14-2018, 02:52 AM

*clears up mess Bear left*

Her trigger apparently activates only on using pure debuffing abilities, i.e.: the abilities with blue icon. In other words, the abilities dealing dmg+debuff abilities are OK.

that can be a bit of a saving grace, but still cancels out mordred....

still, looks more like you're better off breaking out a self buffing team like the lust demon....

nonsensei

06-14-2018, 03:20 AM

that can be a bit of a saving grace, but still cancels out mordred....

Inb4 Mordred hero mission. :joy:

still, looks more like you're better off breaking out a self buffing team like the lust demon....

Nah, you just mow it down with burst. You can use dmg dealing debuffs first, abilities & auto until you can kill her with fully debuffed burst if you can't cover debuffs with only damaging abilities.
Also don't forget that GO is a 5 staged battle, you have to deal with other bosses beforehand.

Tanaka5

06-14-2018, 03:26 AM

that can be a bit of a saving grace, but still cancels out mordred....

still, looks more like you're better off breaking out a self buffing team like the lust demon....

Well Barong has relatively lower HP compared to other previous GO bosses I suppose (Will try and get the numbers if possible).

So as Nonsi said, if you can have full BG and burst it down, you most likely won't have to deal with the trigger for the nuke. Otherwise you can just use damage + debuff abilities rather than pure debuffs.

Bear

06-14-2018, 03:35 AM

She only has 5.5m health :thonk:

Ikki

06-14-2018, 03:39 AM

She only has 5.5m health :thonk:

Oneshot intensifies

Kitty

06-14-2018, 04:50 AM

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/385142283374428164/456598916935319554/unknown.png

wtaf @ these rerolls man
who wants? :think:

Cobblemaniac

06-14-2018, 08:38 AM

https://twitter.com/Kamihime_Nutaku/status/1006785599334952960

Sooooo... SSR Beelz is literally from DBZ :think:

Aidoru

06-14-2018, 10:09 PM

Brought back last year's summer time limited girls but cash only gacha it seems.

Cobblemaniac

06-15-2018, 01:03 AM

SUMMER SOL IS BAAAAAAA-

10314

-aaaaacck...

Enjoy yourselves whales.

I shall now use my own joke against me.

For the low low price of only 150 dragon eyes, you too, can get the limited edition hime you so desire!

Karma's a bitch.

BlazeAlter

06-15-2018, 03:33 AM

SUMMER SOL IS BAAAAAAA-

10314

-aaaaacck...

Enjoy yourselves whales.

I shall now use my own joke against me.

Karma's a bitch.

tfw the only thing separating you from your waifu is the gacha barrier
10315

I sometimes wish this game allowed us to just buy costumes for our himes cuz why df not
id spend for that shit even if it didn't have any effect (though it would also be great if it did have some)

Laventale

06-15-2018, 11:02 PM

I sometimes wish this game allowed us to just buy costumes for our himes cuz why df not
id spend for that shit even if it didn't have any effect (though it would also be great if it did have some)

See?

This is what allows gacha games to exist, people willing to spend money over some pixels.

I've done it countless times and I'd do it again if I had the chance, lmao.

BlazeAlter

06-15-2018, 11:15 PM

I've done it countless times and I'd do it again if I had the chance, lmao.

http://i66.tinypic.com/1osoow.jpg

I'm sure a lot of people (including me) are with you on that
and we all walk towards it willingly anyway lmao

Cobblemaniac

06-15-2018, 11:41 PM

LUL

I'm sure a lot of people (including me) are with you on that
and we all walk towards it willingly anyway lmao

My usual comeback to that is...

That’s like me saying going for real people is just like going after carbon.

BlazeAlter

06-16-2018, 12:37 AM

My usual comeback to that is...

That’s like me saying going for real people is just like going after carbon.

2D > 3D
10334

djthanhboi

06-16-2018, 01:17 AM

Anyone having trouble logging in?

MagicSpice

06-16-2018, 03:04 AM

i'm actually kinda pissed she appears ONE DAY AFTER i used cash i could spare for gachas.... i can add more money, but i'd rather not...

besides, after that hot streak i think i might be pushing my luck... i'd rather live to fight another day...

See?

This is what allows gacha games to exist, people willing to spend money over some pixels.

I've done it countless times and I'd do it again if I had the chance, lmao.

that or the character/item snapping the game in half...

there's people here that don't even like loli but would still pull hard to get the regular Sol to awaken her...

but i do not regret dropping a miracle ticket for dakki... she is good (but there's undeniably better i could have got), but i'll be damned if that fox was going to avoid me any longer cause I. FUCKING. LOVE. FOXGIRLS.

(i will admit she's a bitch personality wise but i still love her anyway)

Kitty

06-16-2018, 03:18 AM

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/385142283374428164/457468422251347988/unknown.png

:think: now imagine if i had belial instead of cthugha

Cobblemaniac

06-16-2018, 03:20 AM

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/385142283374428164/457468422251347988/unknown.png

:think: now imagine if i had belial instead of cthugha

What worries me is your gamer tag :think:

bmj420420

06-16-2018, 02:27 PM

Since I've managed to get 2500 accessory P, should I get a dark ring for eligos or a fire ring for fire eligos? Eventually they will be replaced but as of right now I don't have any SSR fire or dark accessories.

Slashley

06-16-2018, 02:51 PM

Note that a proper SR Accessory is far stronger than a bad SSR Accessory. So either buy SRs for fodder, or SSRs to try to and see if you luck out. I never have gotten a single good SSR Ring from the Shop, but it can happen, I guess.

HugMeTender

06-17-2018, 01:47 PM

Whooooo. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180617/d602b42195005586bc23d1bc902d5907.jpg

Cobblemaniac

06-17-2018, 07:32 PM

Whooooo.

To this day her burst animation is still one I almost never ever skip. Enjoy :bgrin:

MagicSpice

06-18-2018, 08:41 AM

i find it funny that the game stopped loading for me on my computer, but it loads on my phone perfectly fine...

AND BOTH ARE USING CHROME....

nonsensei

06-18-2018, 08:43 AM

To this day her burst animation is still one I almost never ever skip. Enjoy :bgrin:

I always feel like something is missing without the dark resist buff applied afterwards. :neutral:

AutoCrimson

06-18-2018, 08:45 AM

i find it funny that the game stopped loading for me on my computer, but it loads on my phone perfectly fine...

funny enuf, this is what happened for me today as well. either AdGuard of Kaspersky was the culprit, since it works fine after i disabled both

MagicSpice

06-18-2018, 07:02 PM

funny enuf, this is what happened for me today as well. either AdGuard of Kaspersky was the culprit, since it works fine after i disabled both

i just stopped using the browser version for a while, came back later, and it was fine....

might have been server overload, but if so... that's a lot of people playing before school/work.... cause we're talking 10AM eastern time zone

Yolodesu

06-19-2018, 01:58 AM

I always feel like something is missing without the dark resist buff applied afterwards. :neutral:

I'm really worried about AW Michael. If nutaku don't bother adding burst effect on a regular basis in the future, it will be way more annoying than dark resist missing on Sol...

Slashley

06-19-2018, 02:06 AM

More and more Awakened Hime will start relying on their on-Burst effects. Like Awakened Brahma is amazing with it, and... well... okay-ish without it.

Yolodesu

06-19-2018, 02:18 AM

More and more Awakened Hime will start relying on their on-Burst effects. Like Awakened Brahma is amazing with it, and... well... okay-ish without it.

I know. Michael is my main concern but i have Brahma too... :frown:

Mirage

06-19-2018, 03:49 AM

Like Awakened Brahma is amazing with it, and... well... okay-ish without it.

AW Brahma's Burst effect is indeed very good, but even without it she is still one of if not the best Thunder attacker, calling her "ok-ish" is pretty ridiculous.

MagicSpice

06-19-2018, 12:52 PM

I know. Michael is my main concern but i have Brahma too... :frown:

i don't have either and i'm hoping i get them....

especially Michael, cause my light team is by far my best right now (14 skill effects with a full light grid, my god....)

I'm really worried about AW Michael. If nutaku don't bother adding burst effect on a regular basis in the future, it will be way more annoying than dark resist missing on Sol...

whoever is doing patch work on KamiPro clearly took a class from the SenPro ones....

seriously, the frequent "after-care" maintenances and the lack of things being implemented correctly is looking a lot like the same path SenPro went down.... which led to the game dying off and closing down

Anonymous

06-19-2018, 03:16 PM

Alright, so I seem to be at a weird state in Kamihime where my progress has grown stagnant. The crutch of the issue: Holy Crystals of Light.

All SR and SSR Kamihime need these little buggers, and I can't seem to find any of them without having to go through the shop trade option, which takes an eternity to do.

The game tells me I can get 'em via. the daily special quest, but I'm not so sure, because while my teams aren't good enough to do the Ultimate levels yet, Expert usually gives me the upgraded Stars of Light, which don't help me at all because I have about five of them and not a single Kamihime I have needs one yet. Both Standard and Beginner give me jack squat - just some elemental teeth.

Anyone here know the most reliable way of farming Holy Crystals of Light?

Slashley

06-19-2018, 03:22 PM

T3 Crystals? The 25 AP or 50 AP ones would be the best, I think. Also, Ultimates in the current Union event (about to end in a few hours) drop them in droves. But RNG is going to RNG, so you might not see them often if you're unlucky, from any source.

T3 Crystals are way, WAY more common than T4 though, so if you've been getting T4, then you're lucky... as odd as that is.

HugMeTender

06-20-2018, 03:53 PM

When equipping your primary weapon, is it better to have the highest level possible, or your best skill?

For example: lvl 80 SR > lvl 50 SSR or visa versa? (this is also assuming both are assault, but SSR are usually ++)

Delete

06-20-2018, 03:55 PM

For primary weapon, is important that the weapon is SSR; SSR weapons do more damage on Burst.

Slashley

06-20-2018, 04:13 PM

For primary weapon, is important that the weapon is SSR; SSR weapons do more damage on Burst.While true, it should be noted that LMB SR weapons have a modifier of 3.5, compared to 4.0 of non-LMB SSRs. The SSR is better sure, but I'm not sure if "important" is the word I'd use.

On the other hand, 0.5 makes a fair amount of difference once you're pumped up.

samdan

06-20-2018, 06:40 PM

Anyone mind helping me organize a fire team and a light team? I'm maining water with wind as my 2nd team, figure might as well build these when I have nothing else going on. Here's what I've got:

Souls:
All except Morgan, Solomon, and Siegfried

Fire SSR (all LMB):
Ares (not AW)
Mars

Fire SR (all 3*):
Hephaestus
Nataku
Raguel
Ragaraja
Motu
Agni
Brynhildr
Amon

Fire R (all LMB):
All except FP Mephistopheles

Light SSR (All LMB):
Raphael
Metatron

Light SR (All LMB):
Durga
Uzume
Diana
Belobog
Artemis

Light R (All LMB):
Aten
Kamadeva
Daphne
Aurora
Inanna
Dike
Orpheus
Urania

Weapon grids are... shit... but working on it. Advice on the KH/Soul lineups?

Slashley

06-20-2018, 06:53 PM

Team building isn't an amazing science. See a debuff you don't have? Pick it. Got a healer? Pick it. Got space left? Put whatever has the highest base damage, so probably a random SSR/SR.

So, based on an entire five seconds that I spent looking at that list, fire:
Mars (debuff), Heph (debuff), Raguel (debuff), Bryn (heals). Replace Bryn with Ares if you're running content that doesn't require heals.
Soul, bring B debuff and/or BP (you might need to run Konohana-Sakuya if you need both). Mordred is always a good go-to Soul until Hercules Relic weapons.

Light:
Raphael (debuff), Diana (debuff), Metatron (damage), Belebog ("heals")
Replace Belebog with your favorite SR if you don't her "heals."
Soul, bring B debuff and/or BP. Mordred is always a good go-to Soul until Hercules Relic weapons.

blubbergott

06-21-2018, 04:13 AM

Mars (debuff), Heph (debuff), Raguel (debuff), Bryn (heals). Replace Bryn with Ares if you're running content that doesn't require heals.

I don't really see any reason to ever not run Ares with what he got available. Often you can just skip BP and run Sniper Joan if you really need defense. For Wrag or other resistant encounters Agni beats both Heph and Raguel. Can't think of anything currently that needs both heal and BP, isn't a raid and wouldn't benefit from Ares nuke potential a lot more.

Minazuki

06-21-2018, 05:34 AM

I have a fire team consist of 1 ssr, 1 sr and 2 r himes. Just got an ssr lightning hime (Marduk). Should I change one of the r himes with ssr lightning? Also I have belial.

Shieun

06-21-2018, 05:54 AM

Wouldnt suggest to run off element hime, but then again if you're f2p, you dont get much choice anyway

blubbergott

06-21-2018, 05:55 AM

I have a fire team consist of 1 ssr, 1 sr and 2 r himes. Just got an ssr lightning hime (Marduk). Should I change one of the r himes with ssr lightning? Also I have belial.

No, even more so the higher your modifiers for said element (belial, weapon grid, etc.)

Delete

06-21-2018, 05:56 AM

Normally, is not a good idea combine diferent elements. There are some exceptions for defensive/healers (Sol, Gaia). The fact that you have Belial (a reason I hate you :cry: ) only adds to that. Either way, is not easy to give advice if you don't say the name of the Kamihime involved.

Slashley

06-21-2018, 06:06 AM

I don't really see any reason to ever not run Ares with what he got available. -- For Wrag or other resistant encounters Agni beats both Heph and Raguel. Can't think of anything currently that needs both heal and BP, isn't a raid and wouldn't benefit from Ares nuke potential a lot more.Ares and Acala, while SSRs, both suffer from the same problem - you generally don't fit them into a team before they're Awakened, since strong SRs are simply better.

Awakened Ares gains the very impressive self-Elem+ 50%, which is basically her own personal Belial. Combined with her higher rate of Combo due to being on fire, once Awakened she does deal quite nice damage. Even then... honestly? Awakened Ares doesn't impress me much. I'd drop Yamaraja before Ares, but only because I have Amaterasu's Blind to somewhat cover up for the loss of combo-. But if I had any two of Mars/Svarog/Raguel, I'd drop Ares (currently running Ares, Yamaraja, Amaterasu, Heph).

You can make the argument that if a Fire team would be exclusively for Ult Wind Disaster, then putting in Agni and Ares would be a good idea. That's true. A rather specific case, but considering how you need to those Regalia, a very valid one.

Oh, and as a sidenote:
Often you can just skip BP and run Sniper Joan if you really need defense.Please remember that BP is absolutely vital for newer players. Skipping BP and using Joan can be sufficient once you start to get strong, and skipping even Joan starts being a thing once you get really strong. But for a player who asks for help with team-comps, it's quite unlikely that they've reached either stage.
I have a fire team consist of 1 ssr, 1 sr and 2 r himes. Just got an ssr lightning hime (Marduk). Should I change one of the r himes with ssr lightning? Also I have belial.No. I'm not sure about extremely low level grids, but I very much doubt that bringing an off-element Hime would be an improvement even there.

In general, if you bring an off-element Hime it'll be for heals (like Sol) or multiple high-value debuffs (like Ryu-Oh for double A debuffs and BP). Even then - that doesn't really happen in perfectly optimal teams.
EDIT: Or what Delete pointed out, extremely good defensive Hime like Gaia, who can entirely nullify Overdrives for you.

blubbergott

06-21-2018, 07:52 AM

Awakened Ares gains the very impressive self-Elem+ 50%, which is basically her own personal Belial. Combined with her higher rate of Combo due to being on fire, once Awakened she does deal quite nice damage. Even then... honestly? Awakened Ares doesn't impress me much. I'd drop Yamaraja before Ares, but only because I have Amaterasu's Blind to somewhat cover up for the loss of combo-. But if I had any two of Mars/Svarog/Raguel, I'd drop Ares (currently running Ares, Yamaraja, Amaterasu, Heph).

You'd prefer Raguel over awakened Ares? Seriously? The only encounter i can think of where you really want BP currently would be soloing raids, but then again, for Amaru I subbed out Brynhildr instead of Ares for Raguel, because Ares was just too important to lose for my team. What else is there? AQ4 Joan beats BP by so much, no matter how new you are. If you can't beat her with Joan, you won't be able to beat her with BP either. And Ares really helps push through wave 1 easier. Upcoming guild orders? Ares takes care of trash, once you enter wave 5, you'll have burst up, so the only important part is getting to rage asap so you can burst -> Ares great for it. Advents don't have much HP -> Ares nuke once again shines.

The only reason Ares often doesn't make it into an ideal team is that there are other SSRs that can either do her job a bit better (Uriel f.e.) or do her job + more (Svarog f.e.). But if you don't have any of those, she's still a great addition to a team and definitely not worse than any SRs. I'd even use Konohana + Ares over Raguel + Brynhildr 90% of the time if I had to decide between the 2.

Slashley

06-21-2018, 08:54 AM

-- What else is there? AQ4 Joan beats BP by so much, no matter how new you are. If you can't beat her with Joan, you won't be able to beat her with BP either. --I... can't agree with that. That's exactly the kind of line that you'll say after you get strong and forgot just how invaluable BP used to be.

I didn't talk about anything specific - just in general - but if we're talking about AQ4, I believe we can agree that eating two Rage Overdrives from the boss means that you'll wipe, yes? Sure, RNG might decide that one person eats all three shots, but each one might as well one-shot three people from your team. My Thunder team can these days basically eat two hits per Hime and not even die, but that's not how it used to be. Anyway, let's say that Joan will entirely negate one Rage Overdrive.

So, using Joan:
Two turns -> Overdrive turn (negated) -> one turn -> Overdrive turn (team crippled) -> one turn -> final turn (team wipes from Overdrive)
5 turns + 2 crippled turns

Using BP:
Three turns -> Overdrive turn (team crippled) -> two turns -> final turn
4 turns + 3 crippled turns

Now, when you consider the reality that:
1. Joan doesn't entirely negate the Rage Overdrive.
2. How much better BP scales with your team abilities such as damage cuts from Hime.
3. How much better off you'll be with BP if you get lucky with the boss blasts such as 3 hitting the same Hime, so your team isn't crippled yet...
It's really, really difficult for me to say that "Oh yeah, Joan is totally better." If you really need more turns, then Joan WITH BP is bloody amazing though.

So... yeah. I just don't agree with your "Joan is good enough or GTFO" -like statement. New players are going to be new, and that can't be helped. Please don't discourage them away from BP. Yes, the usefulness vastly diminishes as you get stronger, but what we can do today without BP doesn't change the way that newer players have to play. Even though they're far, far better off than I was back in the day, seeing as Grids are just a matter of bothering with Gem Quests now, it's not realistic to expect new players to have 80%+ Assault in every element.

Really though, the only way for either of us to prove our points would be to strip away an Eidolon or two, strip away weapons until you have like... 70% power? And then we're probably roughly around the entry point to AQ4 content. Then you'd just need to record a run with both Joan and a run with BP. But I, at least, am certainly not going to bother.