Kamihime General Discussion + Q&A [Archive] - Page 39

Dejnov

03-28-2019, 02:01 PM

But you can, and probably should, use a Character Atk Eidolon on yourself for the HP. Assuming you're running a 100% Friend Eidolon, which you probably will in all content that matters in any way.

I... don't really even want to look at those maths, really. If your premise is wrong, then the rest crumbles. Another two things with the premise, please add base 100% to the calculations, it makes a difference. And also, you're calculating at VERY low Assault numbers, which I reaaaally don't think will apply to anyone who has played for more than a couple of months. Well, that one can be debated, but to be noted is that anyone that new is unlikely to have many weapons that will stay in their Grid - except maybe a Soul weapon if they've somehow managed to leech enough.

I think Keyen's big insight into Tower for Noobs is that you have elemental advantage (+45%) with every Fire team you field. Given that a base set of 10 SRs is only +30% assault, the optimal approach is to raise that as fast as possible so that you can compete. If you're using Belial (+100% elemental damage) for the most difficult content than you really really want to raise assault as cheaply as possible. Any new player should, at the least, have 10 SRs at 10 or so skill level (80% assault) and should do that first rather than worrying about maxing out stuff that stays in the grid long term (like I suggested). You should definitely do this if this isn't your main and you're noob. The best and fastest bang for your limited buck. Is it a viable long term strategy? Hell no!! As you're extending your time to build the super great fire grid. But if you're not a fire main, why would you care?

Dejnov.

kyc992

03-28-2019, 02:14 PM

Horey Shet, I did not expect such detailed and in-depth discussions since my question was quite stupid and short, hahaha.

I'm quite lucky as my Fire has the best weapon grid and the largest hime pool of all my elements. 8 SSRs, 12 SRs, and 11 Rs with Balance/Defense/Tricky covered. So I guess just pump my grid a bit more while leveling them all up so I can customize team better.

Also about Keyen's advice, I think that is a bit situational? If we used the upcoming tower as an example, we happen to have a Fire UE right before it with a Pride and an Assault SSR. If the grid contains only 3 SRs waiting to be swapped out, we could argue that after replacing 2 SRs with SSRs, the remaining SR probably should not be leveled past 8. Reason being that ONE SR won't be there long enough to make the investment worth it for 6% assault. But if the grid has a bit more SRs(4+), then it would be worth doing so because those SRs would have a longer life-span on the grid.

But I guess even then, no matter the situation we can say that one thing probably holds true, and that is IF the soul weapon in question is Solomon's then it might be better to just leave the weapon at SL1. Solomon would mainly be used for floors 1-8, and to my understanding she benefits more from Char ATK(assault/eido) than "Element" ATK.

There is one thing about Keyen's math which I am very confused about, mainly because I actually don't know the formula. The extra 45% elemental attack used, probably comes from elemental advantage... but I thought the bonus from elemental advantage is multiplicative to everything and not additive to Ele ATK.

Keyen

03-28-2019, 02:22 PM

The second problem of soul weapon SL is the fact that unlike the others 9, you will change them depending of the character you will use. It's the most flexible weapon, and for that, the one which will be the most likely "wasted" when you don't use the proper character (so when you use solomon/hercules/shingen who is not upgraded), while a SR weapon will be active all the time.

But yeah, it's situational. If you have a ton of SSR weapons, the soul weapon will most likely regain its #1 position in priority due to an higher amount of assault % and the fact you will need twice the amount of R to upgrade.

For damage:

Damage =　ATK on edit Screen
　　× (1 + Eidolon Character ATK↑ + Assault weapon + ATK bufs + Assist)
　　× (1 + Eidolon Elemental ATK↑ + Soul Weapon + Elemental Buffs + Elemental Advantage)
　　× (1 + Vigor Weapon + Vigor Buff)
　　× (1 + Critical)
　　× (1 + other buffs (rampaging, dmg vs stun, etc))
　　× (1 + Union Guardian)
　　× (1 - ATK Debuffs)
　　÷ {Enemy DEF × (1 + enemy DEF buffs)}

The elemental advantage is only multiplicative to everything else in the full burst formulae (and double dip in this occasion).

kyc992

03-28-2019, 02:25 PM

Keyen

03-28-2019, 02:27 PM

Damage taken = Int {Enemy ATK
* (1 + Enemy ATK Buffs)
* (Enemy Elemental Advantage + Elemental Buff)
* (1 - Ally Reduce DMG)
/ (Ally DEF(10) + Soul DEF / 10)
/ (1 + Assist DEF + Ability DEF + Accessory DEF)
* (1 + DMG Range)}
* DMG Multiplier

It's 0,75 in this case. It's still additive with any elemental buff the enemy can have.

Slashley

03-28-2019, 02:27 PM

There is one thing about Keyen's math which I am very confused about, mainly because I actually don't know the formula. The extra 45% elemental attack used, probably comes from elemental advantage... but I thought the bonus from elemental advantage is multiplicative to everything and not additive to Ele ATK.Elemental (dis)advantage is added to Elemental Atk. The multipliers to base Atk are, off the top of my head, Assault, Elemental, Crit, Vigor, Union Guardian, Special (which we'll have starting next week). Those are the common ones, then you also have Berserk and Stun punisher (which don't stack as they're in the same modifier for some reason and overwrite each other despite the weaker still showing up?!)... was that all?

EDIT: Har, while typing this in the past five minutes there's been like three posts.
The second problem of soul weapon SL is the fact that unlike the others 9, you will change them depending of the character you will use. It's the most flexible weapon, and for that, the one which will be the most likely "wasted" when you don't use the proper character (so when you use solomon/hercules/shingen who is not upgraded), while a SR weapon will be active all the time.Solomon sure, but... are you really going to swap Souls once you have a Herc/Shingen Soul weapon? I don't think so. You pick one and you level their weapon and you stick to it for a long, long, LONG time. If not forever. You can upgrade from Herc to Shingen if your team improves, but outside of that...

Keyen

03-28-2019, 02:34 PM

EDIT: Har, while typing this in the past five minutes there's been like three posts.Solomon sure, but... are you really going to swap Souls once you have a Herc/Shingen Soul weapon? I don't think so. You pick one and you level their weapon and you stick to it for a long, long, LONG time. If not forever. You can upgrade from Herc to Shingen if your team improves, but outside of that...
I'm not saying you will switch a lot between them, i'm saying that if you upgrade Hercules weapon (for instance), it won't help any solomon when you are using her during the early tower. Upgrade an assault weapon will. I'm not saying it will do a tremendous difference because you should switch as soon as you encounter difficulties anyway, but i'm just saying it's another thing to take in account.

Edit: To be perfectly clear, of course you should upgrade your soul weapon. However, in this specific case, with limited ressources and especially R weapons, soul weapon is not always the best course of action, especially if you still have a lot of SR assault in your grid. That's all.

Slashley

03-28-2019, 02:41 PM

However, if you're using Solomon in the Tower, then it's a level which won't pose a big difficulty for you. So... having a weaker Solomon... won't exactly impact anything.

Argo

03-28-2019, 05:00 PM

kyc992

03-28-2019, 05:57 PM

For Fires I have 11 Rs, 16 SRs, and 5 SSRs.
I know that for the earliest floors it's best to just use the bare minimum number of Rs to complete the quests, but the whole cooldown thing makes it hard for me to plan ahead. Is there an ideal setup for when to use hime as you climb?

What I did was, check KH wiki's monster and boss info for previous towers. From there, I make an estimate on how much damage I could probably do with my best team, compared with boss HP on each floors, and estimate what my highest achievable floor is. Then using that floor, I calculate how many days it would take me to complete assuming I use 2 keys a day. Set aside himes that meet the requirements, AKA Balance/Defense/Tricky etc. and you will know whether or not they can be used on prior floors. Once you have that done, check which himes you have that provides buffs/debuffs you can use, and try to use them on higher floors.

With the above done, you should easily have a plan for the hardest possible floor you can do, a plan for specific-type floors, and you basically plug in remaining himes into previous floors with weakest himes doing the earliest few floors.

Once you complete the hardest possible floor, throw your other elements at even higher level floors and let them shave off as much HP as you can, then spending an extra key to kill that floor with himes of the right element(fire in this case).

2 things you can do in between events.
1) You can take 2 days off in the middle of the event to allow hime reset.
2) IF you can not fulfill requirement for hime-type of the same element, ignore the "full fire team" and settle with "type" reward. That gives you more tower medals if you only plan on running it once.
2-1) You can run the same floor twice for both type reward and element reward, but the second run(element reward) is best left until the very end where you are no longer able to push higher.

This was my strategy during water tower, which I had less than a week to prepare for. My grids and everything was god awful as I had just returned to the game, rank 52ish and stuff with almost 0 event weapons, not even 100% assault on ANY of my grids, and lack of SR/Rs. My highest record then was floor 10.
So if you have a decent assault grid, and can rotate your himes without much of an issue, you should definitely do better than me(my record during water) with EASE.

Edit: A thing I'm prepping for now, which seems to work wonders for many others, is getting Solomon for floors 1-8.

Argo

03-28-2019, 08:28 PM

Hmm, I haven't written down just what totals are on my weapon grids so I don't really know about making estimates. The last two towers I more or less just winged it. But I did have to resort to using my better teams sometimes instead of the right element. It sucked not having my Lights available when I got higher up, though, so I guess I just need to be more careful about when I deploy them.

Another question I had now that I'm able to do stuff in Guild Orders. I won't be getting the maximum every time or anything, but as I understand it I should be able to get 2 Orichalcon each time, assuming my Lights keep up the good work. Is there anything in the Orichalcon shop worth grabbing? I really like the skills on Brilliance Glaive, but its stats look worse than some SRs. Maybe top off some of the event SSRs I never got all copies of? Or should I use them solely for FLB-ing whatever I have available?

Cobblemaniac

03-28-2019, 08:31 PM

Unregistered

03-29-2019, 02:41 PM

Anyone know the passive of the next raid event eidolon?

Slashley

03-29-2019, 03:26 PM

Anyone know the passive of the next raid event eidolon?The encyclopedia in Sanahtlig's toolbox (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PhfOAQk6EyK5l33ux_C4T-cexVIQp6D-_Hbd-OO1OmQ/edit#gid=1090858479) gives you a quick peek on all the upcoming SSRs.

Argo

03-29-2019, 10:11 PM

Did pretty well in the Union battle despite my brother and I being the only active members in our Union. I got 1800 jewels from my ranking rewards.

The only objectively good one I can think of from ori shop is the fire ori gun, mainly as a weapon skill stick. The skills of the other weapons are a bit too mediocre to be worth 4 ori.

Raid weapons wise... just forget about them, save your remaining ori for FLB.

Hmm, maybe I just won't bother, then. I'm at 7 points right now. Aaaaaalmost managed to beat it today with Arthur and 3 SR or lowers. Everyone survived until the final fight, but Nick just started to overwhelm with those rage overdrives.

Unregistered

03-30-2019, 03:27 AM

Awful question

Does non-friend eidolon give us her eidolon effect btw?

Unregistered

03-30-2019, 03:35 AM

Awful question

Does non-friend eidolon give us her eidolon effect btw?

Yes. 10 characters.

nonsensei

03-30-2019, 06:40 AM

Hmm, maybe I just won't bother, then. I'm at 7 points right now. Aaaaaalmost managed to beat it today with Arthur and 3 SR or lowers. Everyone survived until the final fight, but Nick just started to overwhelm with those rage overdrives.

You can make that rage overdrive hit like a wet noodle by letting debuffs expire since the damage is based on the number of debuffs she has on her. It's not the most elegant solution, but works. I think it hits for around 1.2k on dark with only her self-inflicted def down on.

Argo

03-30-2019, 01:04 PM

I saw that note in the pastebin I was linked to earlier, but I thought that Atk Downs would mitigate it. And that hurrying through turns to get Sol's heal charged would help, but I guess not. I'll...

tranhi123

03-30-2019, 02:12 PM

The encyclopedia in Sanahtlig's toolbox gives you a quick peek on all the upcoming SSRs.

Do you know when they release Dark Ragnarok?

The last rag I see in Sanahtlig calendar is Light.

Slashley

03-30-2019, 02:33 PM

Do you know when they release Dark Ragnarok?

The last rag I see in Sanahtlig calendar is Light.Added. It's one month after Light Rag, it seems.

I've wanted to give a big, BIG update to the encyclopedia for months, but it's been IRL, IRL, IRL getting in my way. Not sure when I'll get around to actually doing it.

tranhi123

03-30-2019, 02:55 PM

Thanks.

10 characters.

Slashley

03-30-2019, 03:53 PM

Also added Olympia raids (or "Guardians" as many have called them here). Looks like two months after Dark Rag, and then one every month.

nonsensei

03-30-2019, 05:29 PM

Slashley

03-30-2019, 06:00 PM

They're in fact guardians by name. They refer to themselves as "守護者" which translates to exactly that. :think: It's not a made up term.I don't like it since the term "Guardian" is already in use for the level 1-5 things in Unions. I don't know what's the term for that in Jap version, though.

Anyway, DMM wiki calls them オリンピア as well for whatever reason, so I'll go with Olympia raids until Nutaku decides otherwise.

Argo

03-30-2019, 08:19 PM

Sure, atk down does mitigate it, but adds another 1.2k to the base value, so you're receiving 2.4k*(1-0.2)=1920 in case of 20% atk down instead of 1.2k. Again, that 1.2k is on dark, so in case you're running off-element, it becomes around 1.6k base value / debuff.

As for accs, their effects get a minor upgrade at max level like 1% DA or TA turns into 2%, but that's it.
Okay, so it's definitely better to wait then. So I guess the strategy would be to debuff her and get her into rage ASAP, and then only start attacking after the debuffs have expired?

As for the accessories, I was mostly asking if there was a trick to leveling them up. Like the way leveling skills of weapons multiplies the base value of the resources, is there anything like that?

Unregistered

03-30-2019, 08:48 PM

whatever reason

'Guardian Angels (守護天使)' is the official term from in-game as the characters refer to themselves as (yes, they have a plot). 'Olympian' is the unofficial nickname for the fact that each of the 7 Guardians were named after the 7 'Olympian Angels': Aratron of Saturn, Bethor of Jupiter, Phaleg of Mars, Hagith of Venus, Och of the Sun, Ophiel of Mercury and Phul of the Moon. If anything, at least include the 'Angel' part. Also not to be confused with the Seraphs, the UE Angels, who are named after the 7 virtues.

Slashley

03-31-2019, 06:14 AM

'Guardian Angels (守護天使)' is the official term from in-game as the characters refer to themselves as --The part I was interested in was what ingame calls the things Nutaku has dubbed "Guardians", you know, the four Union things.

But, fair enough. Thanks for the names too, I'll add those as well.

nut

03-31-2019, 07:33 AM

The part I was interested in was what ingame calls the things Nutaku has dubbed "Guardians", you know, the four Union things.

But, fair enough. Thanks for the names too, I'll add those as well.

It's still "守護神" guardian, they even using the english word "guardian" for it12315

Slashley

03-31-2019, 11:30 AM

It's still "守護神" guardian, they even using the english word "guardian" for it12315Thanks.

Not really smart of them to use the same term in two places... although I guess 守護神 and 守護天使 isn't the EXACT same. Oh well.

Argo

03-31-2019, 12:12 PM

Alright, my light team was able to demolish the rank 5 dark accessory quests! No losses at all, it actually felt easy... And to think that just two weeks ago I needed two elixirs to get through it. You guys' advice has been super helpful.

And that tip about letting the debuffs expire in the guild order worked out too, as I was able to complete both the Arthur and 3 SR-or-lower-hime missions in one go. The only one I didn't get done was 3 Attack type hime. I'm not sure how many of the new set of missions I'll be able to get done, though. They look harder overall. But I should be able to do the 2 healers one today, which will give me 10 points and a second orichalcon. I can use that to do my first-ever FBL! Only one I have ready right now is Brutal Lance Typhoeus, but that's fine since I should be working on my Fires anyway for the tower. My Phoenix Bow and Armageddon Lance might never be FBL'd though since I don't have enough event materials for them. Sigh.

Oh, and if I'm working on my Fires, what soul should I be using? I'm working on building up my Idea Regalia for a soul weapon. I'm assuming Herc. And what about Darks, do they want Shingen or Herc too?

Unregistered

03-31-2019, 12:51 PM

kyc992

03-31-2019, 01:35 PM

Thanks.

Not really smart of them to use the same term in two places... although I guess 守護神 and 守護天使 isn't the EXACT same. Oh well.

It's a bit different because the term 守護天使 means Guardian Angel and is basically, an angel. 守護神 on the other hand can imply different "meanings": Guardian Deity, Guardian Spirit(守護霊) or just Guardian and does not have a "fixed form".

Argo

03-31-2019, 02:11 PM

Dark should be Herc, Fire is depent on your comp and content, if your team fast af ( Uriel AW, Svarog AW+tiara, Ares AW+tiara, Acala AW+tiara,... you get my point) and the content is high debuff resist or it’s raid and everyone else will cover debuff for you, then go shingen. Everything else Herc is a no brainer

At the moment my team is Uriel Awakened, Hephaestus, Brynhildr, Mars, with Acala and Ares (both not awakened) as subs. Main Eidolon is Ifrit with 1 break.
Since I don't have Svarog and my Ares and Acala aren't awakened, I guess Herc then. If I get her axe I shouldn't need Sniper Shot anymore, so what would I stick there instead? Trial by Jury, Black Propaganda, or something else?

As for my Darks, I have Satan Awakened, Chernobog, Dark Amaterasu, and Osiris, with Samael and Kali as subs (I do also have Thanatos). Main Eidolon is Trivia.
Do I want to swap Trivia for the new no-star Azathoth I summoned the other day? It's 10% more Atk from the Eidolon effect, but loses the Double Atk rate up and her stats are much lower.
And between Satan and Amaterasu I'm already hitting -45% defense. If I work on getting Herc's axe, isn't that overkill?

Unregistered

03-31-2019, 04:45 PM

At the moment my team is Uriel Awakened, Hephaestus, Brynhildr, Mars, with Acala and Ares (both not awakened) as subs. Main Eidolon is Ifrit with 1 break.
Since I don't have Svarog and my Ares and Acala aren't awakened, I guess Herc then. If I get her axe I shouldn't need Sniper Shot anymore, so what would I stick there instead? Trial by Jury, Black Propaganda, or something else?

As for my Darks, I have Satan Awakened, Chernobog, Dark Amaterasu, and Osiris, with Samael and Kali as subs (I do also have Thanatos). Main Eidolon is Trivia.
Do I want to swap Trivia for the new no-star Azathoth I summoned the other day? It's 10% more Atk from the Eidolon effect, but loses the Double Atk rate up and her stats are much lower.
And between Satan and Amaterasu I'm already hitting -45% defense. If I work on getting Herc's axe, isn't that overkill?

For your fire, both TbJ or BP is find, go with what you like, but for content like GO, Sniper Shot is still a very strong skill because it’s AOE 20% atk/def debuff. For your dark, Herc is not only for the def debuff, she is also fast enough for dark, tanky and do good dmg. And null axe for dark is one of the easiest F2p null grid in the game (and strong too because Dark UE axe is FLB Pride Defender). So any dark team would like to stick with herc forever

kyc992

03-31-2019, 05:02 PM

Slashley

03-31-2019, 05:27 PM

-- And null axe for dark is one of the easiest F2p null grid in the game (and strong too because Dark UE axe is FLB Pride Defender). --Sadly, only for veterans.

But the same Phantom Grid problem applies to all elements for non-veterans, so eh. The whole Phantom weapon idea is goddamn awful.

Unregistered

03-31-2019, 05:36 PM

In my case I only got back in the game in time for the previous greed UE, so I only have ONE copy of the Pride Axe. To my knowledge there is only one more Greed UE, what would you say I do in this case for dark grid since I'm unlikely to get any more dark axes. And yes I do have the null axe which is why I'm wondering.

Null grid only good if you already have the weapon ready for it, it’s no good try to force it. Just make a simple math:
A=the atk stat when you run null grid
B=the atk stat when you not run null grid
C=the assault value when you not run null grid
D=the assault value when you run null grid

If (A-B)/B<(C-D)/D then it’s not worth to run null grid.
The main purpose of null grid is base stat, so it’s good to sacrifide as less assault as possible for it. It also a reason why null weapon with assault are good, and axe are not one of them

Dejnov

03-31-2019, 05:37 PM

In my case I only got back in the game in time for the previous greed UE, so I only have ONE copy of the Pride Axe. To my knowledge there is only one more Greed UE, what would you say I do in this case for dark grid since I'm unlikely to get any more dark axes. And yes I do have the null axe which is why I'm wondering.

So I would never normally recommend this, as it's not the best use of Ori, BUT the Orichalcon shop has a Dark Axe that is Defender++/Assault+ at 1920 Assault. Not the best, but it's an Axe AND it has two skills Assault and Defender... And you can build a full Axe Grid for Dark...

Dejnov.

Argo

03-31-2019, 05:45 PM

For your fire, both TbJ or BP is find, go with what you like, but for content like GO, Sniper Shot is still a very strong skill because it’s AOE 20% atk/def debuff. For your dark, Herc is not only for the def debuff, she is also fast enough for dark, tanky and do good dmg. And null axe for dark is one of the easiest F2p null grid in the game (and strong too because Dark UE axe is FLB Pride Defender). So any dark team would like to stick with herc forever

Hmm, I really should set up two different team loadouts for each element, but then stuff like the Tower happens and I want the free space for teams to do that.
For general purpose I think I'll probably go with Herc with Trial by Jury for the time being, then. I doubt I'll use my Fires in Guild Orders much...my Light team is working moderately against the Light one now that I'm getting the hang of it, so I assume they'll be okay for other elements too.

I haven't gotten a single Phantom weapon yet, so I probably shouldn't be thinking that far ahead.
My Darks lack Atk Down so I was using Trial by Jury with Shingen so far. Do you think Shingen works for Dark? I've got Osiris with a small party-wide burst increase, and both Chernobog and Satan Awakened have combo-boosting skills. If that's not enough then I'll just switch to Herc and start buying her axes with the regalia I've saved up. I can buy two Dark soul weapons right now.
I do have the union Dark axe. One copy is broken to three stars, and I have two extra copies as well. I've also got this Dark hammer from union battles too, but only at two stars. Will there be another one where I can get more? And while I'm at it, will there be more events where I can get the Light union Staff? I have only one copy of that.

Dejnov

03-31-2019, 06:03 PM

Hmm, I really should set up two different team loadouts for each element, but then stuff like the Tower happens and I want the free space for teams to do that.
For general purpose I think I'll probably go with Herc with Trial by Jury for the time being, then. I doubt I'll use my Fires in Guild Orders much...my Light team is working moderately against the Light one now that I'm getting the hang of it, so I assume they'll be okay for other elements too.

I haven't gotten a single Phantom weapon yet, so I probably shouldn't be thinking that far ahead.
My Darks lack Atk Down so I was using Trial by Jury with Shingen so far. Do you think Shingen works for Dark? I've got Osiris with a small party-wide burst increase, and both Chernobog and Satan Awakened have combo-boosting skills. If that's not enough then I'll just switch to Herc and start buying her axes with the regalia I've saved up. I can buy two Dark soul weapons right now.
I do have the union Dark axe. One copy is broken to three stars, and I have two extra copies as well. I've also got this Dark hammer from union battles too, but only at two stars. Will there be another one where I can get more? And while I'm at it, will there be more events where I can get the Light union Staff? I have only one copy of that.

Dark usually runs better with Herc; you can always take Provisional Forest with them. You need a team loadout for GO and for Catastrophe battles (Ultimate and Ragnorok). Right now the AQ quests aren't usually hard enough that they have to be much different than the Catastrophe load outs (but that would be a potential third). So that works out to 2 load outs for standard run strong teams.

Since my best elements are Dark, Light, and Water. I have 2 Dark teams (AQ and all Cats, and GO), 1 Light team (always Shingen always Encourage Inspiration), and 1 Water team for Fire Cats. The other elements aren't really strong enough even with elemental advantage to keep anything other than a standard 'best of' team. Nearly everything defaults to the Dark standard team (not GO) other than when I'm running the Light team. The Light team with Shingen and Encourage are also used for GO, where the tactic is just to burst often and always. When I can actually figure out a stronger load out for them, I might work to having dedicated teams for them, but not yet.

Dejnov.

Argo

03-31-2019, 06:30 PM

Dark usually runs better with Herc; you can always take Provisional Forest with them. You need a team loadout for GO and for Catastrophe battles (Ultimate and Ragnorok). Right now the AQ quests aren't usually hard enough that they have to be much different than the Catastrophe load outs (but that would be a potential third). So that works out to 2 load outs for standard run strong teams.

Since my best elements are Dark, Light, and Water. I have 2 Dark teams (AQ and all Cats, and GO), 1 Light team (always Shingen always Encourage Inspiration), and 1 Water team for Fire Cats. The other elements aren't really strong enough even with elemental advantage to keep anything other than a standard 'best of' team. Nearly everything defaults to the Dark standard team (not GO) other than when I'm running the Light team. The Light team with Shingen and Encourage are also used for GO, where the tactic is just to burst often and always. When I can actually figure out a stronger load out for them, I might work to having dedicated teams for them, but not yet.

Dejnov.

Under what circumstances do I want to take Provisional Forest? Without Trial by Jury my Darks only have -20% for Atk Down, and my Fires would have 0%. I was under the impression that it was best to try and get Atk and Def debuffs as deep as you could before anything else. Which is also why my Lights have Ambush instead of Encourage Inspiration.

And do I really need a separate Dark team for Guild Orders when my Lights are doing okay at it? I mean it wouldn't hurt, but at the moment my dark weapons are very underskilled since I've been focusing on Lights since they're my main and Fire for the upcoming Tower.

Right now I've got one team of every element plus a second Light team, a leveling team for doing experience quests (just whatever needs to grow), and a team for daily gem quests featuring Mithra. The other slots are more or less open. My Lights are my best, Darks are probably second-best, and then I don't know between Fire or Water for my third-best. My Wind team is hopeless, and my Lightnings would take a lot of investment, but my Fires and Waters probably only need one or two Miracle Tickets each to turn into something nice.

Dejnov

03-31-2019, 06:52 PM

Under what circumstances do I want to take Provisional Forest? Without Trial by Jury my Darks only have -20% for Atk Down, and my Fires would have 0%. I was under the impression that it was best to try and get Atk and Def debuffs as deep as you could before anything else. Which is also why my Lights have Ambush instead of Encourage Inspiration.

And do I really need a separate Dark team for Guild Orders when my Lights are doing okay at it? I mean it wouldn't hurt, but at the moment my dark weapons are very underskilled since I've been focusing on Lights since they're my main and Fire for the upcoming Tower.

Right now I've got one team of every element plus a second Light team, a leveling team for doing experience quests (just whatever needs to grow), and a team for daily gem quests featuring Mithra. The other slots are more or less open. My Lights are my best, Darks are probably second-best, and then I don't know between Fire or Water for my third-best. My Wind team is hopeless, and my Lightnings would take a lot of investment, but my Fires and Waters probably only need one or two Miracle Tickets each to turn into something nice.

I would take Provisional Forest with Herc on the Dark team when you have Satan Awakened and the MLBed Herc axe. That will get you -50% Def down and now you can buff overall damage. It is better to get the ATK and DEF debuffs first over Provisional Forest. The only time it works better is for Light where you can take both Provisional Forest and also Sniper Shot (Shingen soul with EX Sniper Shot).

If your Light is your main, you want to work on thinking if you can do more than one load out for Light. But it all really depends on how deep your Hime bench is with Light. If you have just 4 SSRs, you probably only have one good load out for Light. It won't mean having multiple teams until you get 5 or 6 SSRs that can switch in depending upon the job. Example: For my Dark team I have both Satan Awakened and Samael. Both give -25% DEF down, but Samael does it all (for 120 sec), while Satan has it for longer (180 sec) and a Black Propagnda skill. I switch them depending on whether it's a single fight (Satan) or groups (Samael).

Dark is a great second choice for Light... it helps when you have to do Light Catastrophes and Accessory Quests.

Dejnov.

Slashley

03-31-2019, 07:03 PM

So I would never normally recommend this, as it's not the best use of Ori, BUT the Orichalcon shop has a Dark Axe that is Defender++/Assault+ at 1920 Assault. Not the best, but it's an Axe AND it has two skills Assault and Defender... And you can build a full Axe Grid for Dark...There's no way an Axe Grid is worth Ori. Aim for Hammer/Glaive/Lance/Bow Grids.

For Veterans who have all the Envy Axes, an Axe Grid is alright. You don't really gain or lose actual damage because what you gain in base Atk you lose in Assault. All you get is basically get a free Elaborate(++) and Exceed(++), which... honestly, isn't much. Still, why not if you already have all the ingredients. But please, don't spend Ori for a Grid like that.

Argo

03-31-2019, 07:15 PM

I would take Provisional Forest with Herc on the Dark team when you have Satan Awakened and the MLBed Herc axe. That will get you -50% Def down and now you can buff overall damage. It is better to get the ATK and DEF debuffs first over Provisional Forest. The only time it works better is for Light where you can take both Provisional Forest and also Sniper Shot (Shingen soul with EX Sniper Shot).

If your Light is your main, you want to work on thinking if you can do more than one load out for Light. But it all really depends on how deep your Hime bench is with Light. If you have just 4 SSRs, you probably only have one good load out for Light. It won't mean having multiple teams until you get 5 or 6 SSRs that can switch in depending upon the job. Example: For my Dark team I have both Satan Awakened and Samael. Both give -25% DEF down, but Samael does it all (for 120 sec), while Satan has it for longer (180 sec) and a Black Propagnda skill. I switch them depending on whether it's a single fight (Satan) or groups (Samael).

Dark is a great second choice for Light... it helps when you have to do Light Catastrophes and Accessory Quests.

Dejnov.

Between Satan Awakened and Dark Amaterasu I already have -45% def down. If that last 5% can be overlooked, I could take Shingen as my Soul directly for Provisional Forest, then use either Trial by Jury to hit -40% Atk down or Encourage Inspiration for faster bursts. Would that work better than Herc, or do I need that last 5%?
And if I have Amaterasu's Black Propaganda-like skill and Satan's Darkness Lost to control overdrives, are they fine without TbJ or is getting that -40% Atk more important than Provisional Forest for Herc or Encourage Inspiration for Shingen?

My Light SSR himes include:
Sol Awakened, Michael Awakened, Tishtrya, Light Tsukuyomi, Eros, Frey, Atum, and Santa Satan. The first six are my team. Since Sniper Shot overlaps with Tish's debuffs I use Ambush instead.

My Dark SSRs include:
Satan Awakened, Dark Amaterasu, Chernobog, Osiris, Samael, Kali, and Thanatos. Again, the first six are my team. Sadly, no Hades or Pluto.

Dejnov

03-31-2019, 07:34 PM

Between Satan Awakened and Dark Amaterasu I already have -45% def down. If that last 5% can be overlooked, I could take Shingen as my Soul directly for Provisional Forest, then use either Trial by Jury to hit -40% Atk down or Encourage Inspiration for faster bursts. Would that work better than Herc, or do I need that last 5%?

And if I have Amaterasu's Black Propaganda-like skill and Satan's Darkness Lost to control overdrives, are they fine without TbJ or is getting that -40% Atk more important than Provisional Forest for Herc or Encourage Inspiration for Shingen?

-45% Def down is fine. I'd definitely use either Herc with the Axe or Shingen with Encourage Inspiration. With both Osiris and the Inspiration, the Dark team is actually decently fast. Atk down isn't nearly as needed as Def down. After you get Provisional Forest, the whole goal is to kill fast. If you reduce the rounds dramatically in a combat and burst hard, that's the same as ATK down.

My Light SSR himes include:
Sol Awakened, Michael Awakened, Tishtrya, Light Tsukuyomi, Eros, Frey, Atum, and Santa Satan. The first six are my team. Since Sniper Shot overlaps with Tish's debuffs I use Ambush instead.

My Dark SSRs include:
Satan Awakened, Dark Amaterasu, Chernobog, Osiris, Samael, Kali, and Thanatos. Again, the first six are my team. Sadly, no Hades or Pluto.

You'll probably want to stick with Ambush on the Light Team as -30% DEF down is fairly light. OTOH I'm currently running a Light team similar to yours with Artemis instead of Tsuku and I only have -35% DEF down. Using Encourage Inspiration to just hit faster seems to be working out fine for me (but I actually can't use Ambush since Artemis has an A-frame DEF down).

The Dark team is also fairly close to my Dark team, but Dark Amaterasu is a great addition. You can definitely try Shingen with that team as you have no use for Sniper Shot. I'd swap Samael in for Satan Awakened for GO actions, but that is a solid team. I also fully skill leveled Chernobog and Osiris' weapons. They are Assault/Defender. Even at level 50 you're getting more stats than any level 85 SR in your grid. Even Samael's Hammer, Dark Amaterasu's Mirror and Thanatos' Necro Joker are damn nice. If you skill raise all of those, you'll come close to a fairly strong grid (probably a lot stronger than your Light grid) and you can run that team as confidently as the Light one. Having 10 assault and 8+ defender skills at full level works wonders - even if the base hit points and assault are not there due to only having the weapons at level 50. It's something Light grids can't as easily do (as Tish's weapon currently sucks and a lot of the other ones are not Assault/Defender combos).

Dejnov.

P.S. I should also mention that Frey's, Eros', and Atum's weapons are also Assault/Defender. Raise those and stick them in your grid over any SR and even single skill SSRs or one's that don't have both Assault and Defender. The percent bonus will overcome the 75 levels of base assault you're missing.

Argo

03-31-2019, 08:38 PM

-45% Def down is fine. I'd definitely use either Herc with the Axe or Shingen with Encourage Inspiration. With both Osiris and the Inspiration, the Dark team is actually decently fast. Atk down isn't nearly as needed as Def down. After you get Provisional Forest, the whole goal is to kill fast. If you reduce the rounds dramatically in a combat and burst hard, that's the same as ATK down.
Okay, I'll try the team without TbJ for now then. But if both Herc with PF or Shingen with EI work, then I don't know whose Soul Weapon to buy ;__;

You'll probably want to stick with Ambush on the Light Team as -30% DEF down is fairly light. OTOH I'm currently running a Light team similar to yours with Artemis instead of Tsuku and I only have -35% DEF down. Using Encourage Inspiration to just hit faster seems to be working out fine for me (but I actually can't use Ambush since Artemis has an A-frame DEF down).
Is Artemis worth using my next M.Ticket for? My current team is fast and hits -50% Def down, so I don't think she's necessary, right? I'd rather use the next one on either my Darks, Fires, or Waters.

The Dark team is also fairly close to my Dark team, but Dark Amaterasu is a great addition. You can definitely try Shingen with that team as you have no use for Sniper Shot. I'd swap Samael in for Satan Awakened for GO actions, but that is a solid team. I also fully skill leveled Chernobog and Osiris' weapons. They are Assault/Defender. Even at level 50 you're getting more stats than any level 85 SR in your grid. Even Samael's Hammer, Dark Amaterasu's Mirror and Thanatos' Necro Joker are damn nice. If you skill raise all of those, you'll come close to a fairly strong grid (probably a lot stronger than your Light grid) and you can run that team as confidently as the Light one. Having 10 assault and 8+ defender skills at full level works wonders - even if the base hit points and assault are not there due to only having the weapons at level 50. It's something Light grids can't as easily do (as Tish's weapon currently sucks and a lot of the other ones are not Assault/Defender combos).

Dejnov.

P.S. I should also mention that Frey's, Eros', and Atum's weapons are also Assault/Defender. Raise those and stick them in your grid over any SR and even single skill SSRs or one's that don't have both Assault and Defender. The percent bonus will overcome the 75 levels of base assault you're missing.

Wow, really? I've been ignoring most of my non-broken SSRs. If they have at least one break like my Satan's and Samael's weapons I've worked on them a little bit, but I thought base power was more important. I definitely have room for more SSRs in my dark grid if they're better than my SRs.
Oh, and like I mentioned earlier the Dark UE Axe in my grid is 3-star, and I have two more copies. Should I put the others to 1-star and raise it up too? Will there be events I can get more copies?

Attached are my Dark and Light grids. There's plenty of SRs I could drop for the weapons of Amaterasu, Thanatos, Kali, Chernobog, and/or Osiris. It'll take a while to level up their skills, though. Do you think I should switch focus to those, or keep working on leveling my Fire weapons for the Tower?
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And there isn't much room on my Light Grid. The SR lance is giving Shingen a preferred weapon boost - is that still worth swapping out for Atum and Frey's weapons? I just got those two SRs to skill level 17 and 18, too...at what skill level on the SSRs would I want to swap them in over the SRs?
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Unregistered

03-31-2019, 10:12 PM

Argo

03-31-2019, 10:27 PM

Just don’t care about anything and go full light. I don’t get why you have phoenix bow but no UE weapon at all. Your MT should be Lugh next and Iris later. Use all your brick for Mike and Tish and Lugh lance so you can run null lance.
I can't FLB that Phoenix Bow though since I don't have event materials. Didn't know they were necessary until after it ended and I'd spent everything.

It was only my brother and I working in our Union, so the vast majority of my union weapons are poor. I have only a single copy each of Proud Axe Lumina Banish and Light Staff of Guilty Pride. Will there be more events where I could get more copies now that we've joined a larger union?

I don't have any Phantom weapons, so I'd rather not make plans around them. My luck is notoriously bad. I was planning to use my Tower earnings to get bricks for Michael's lance, though. Wasn't sure what to do after that, if I should work on Tish's or a different element's weapons.

Unregistered

03-31-2019, 10:31 PM

I can't FLB that Phoenix Bow though since I don't have event materials. Didn't know they were necessary until after it ended and I'd spent everything.

It was only my brother and I working in our Union, so the vast majority of my union weapons are poor. I have only a single copy each of Proud Axe Lumina Banish and Light Staff of Guilty Pride. Will there be more events where I could get more copies now that we've joined a larger union?

I don't have any Phantom weapons, so I'd rather not make plans around them. My luck is notoriously bad. I was planning to use my Tower earnings to get bricks for Michael's lance, though. Wasn't sure what to do after that, if I should work on Tish's or a different element's weapons.
If you not have any 100% eido, just go light, that element is broken

Quarters

03-31-2019, 10:37 PM

Unregistered

03-31-2019, 11:22 PM

Dejnov

03-31-2019, 11:43 PM

Okay, I'll try the team without TbJ for now then. But if both Herc with PF or Shingen with EI work, then I don't know whose Soul Weapon to buy ;__;

Is Artemis worth using my next M.Ticket for? My current team is fast and hits -50% Def down, so I don't think she's necessary, right? I'd rather use the next one on either my Darks, Fires, or Waters.

Wow, really? I've been ignoring most of my non-broken SSRs. If they have at least one break like my Satan's and Samael's weapons I've worked on them a little bit, but I thought base power was more important. I definitely have room for more SSRs in my dark grid if they're better than my SRs.
Oh, and like I mentioned earlier the Dark UE Axe in my grid is 3-star, and I have two more copies. Should I put the others to 1-star and raise it up too? Will there be events I can get more copies?

Attached are my Dark and Light grids. There's plenty of SRs I could drop for the weapons of Amaterasu, Thanatos, Kali, Chernobog, and/or Osiris. It'll take a while to level up their skills, though. Do you think I should switch focus to those, or keep working on leveling my Fire weapons for the Tower?
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And there isn't much room on my Light Grid. The SR lance is giving Shingen a preferred weapon boost - is that still worth swapping out for Atum and Frey's weapons? I just got those two SRs to skill level 17 and 18, too...at what skill level on the SSRs would I want to swap them in over the SRs?
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If you're base assault is around 50,000 Assault and 7,500 Hp, using a weapon that is Assault+ and Defender+ will add 6,5k assault and 975 hp when equipped (+13% each) which is a total bonus of 7,500 additional power. This far more than the 400 assault and 30 hp you lose when replacing an level 85 Assault+ SR. Add about four or five weapons like that and you'll add over 50% to your hitpoints, while losing very little assault. That takes the average Hime from 7,500 hp to 12,000 hp. Your survivability will go up dramatically.

Remember going from Assault+ (SR weapon) to Assault++ (SSR weapon) adds base 3% or an overall ~1.3% additional assault (rule of thumb). That means at 50,000 base assault even if the weapon loses 400 assault it gains 650 assault from the additional strength (net 250 assault for your team). That generally makes them a push. It's when it has the defender that there's no competition.

I don't think Artemis is necessary for the next MTix, you'd probably be better of picking up either Lugh, Iris, or Takeminakata if you're helping your Light team or picking up Pluto for your Dark team.

If you're around ~80 to 100% assault for Fire, it's fine to turn back to your main teams. That's around 12 to 15 skill level for SRs and 10 or so for SSRs. More helps, but you should really work to up your main team most of the time. If that's Light, look for an assault/defender weapon and up that and put it in your grid. You should see no loss in damage and decent up in hit points every time you replace them.

The Light SR lance is definitely not as strong as Eros or Frey's weapon. Replace that for sure. (I'd keep it just in case a phantom lance drops for you and you need to jump to five lance weapons immediately.)

Dejnov.

P.S. Keep the UE Axe we get some more chances at it in a couple of months. You can at least FLB the one you have (if it's already at skill level 20).

Dejnov

03-31-2019, 11:49 PM

I can't FLB that Phoenix Bow though since I don't have event materials. Didn't know they were necessary until after it ended and I'd spent everything.

It was only my brother and I working in our Union, so the vast majority of my union weapons are poor. I have only a single copy each of Proud Axe Lumina Banish and Light Staff of Guilty Pride. Will there be more events where I could get more copies now that we've joined a larger union?

I don't have any Phantom weapons, so I'd rather not make plans around them. My luck is notoriously bad. I was planning to use my Tower earnings to get bricks for Michael's lance, though. Wasn't sure what to do after that, if I should work on Tish's or a different element's weapons.

Stick with bricking Michael's Lance for now; Trish's weapon gets Assault (3rd skill) on her FLB upgrade. At that point it becomes viable. Look at your other Dark and Light weapons (Lances, Glaives, Hammers, and Bows) all have Assault. You'll want to Brick them (Chernobog's Lance for example).

Dejnov.

Dejnov

04-01-2019, 12:03 AM

Argo has recommended I take my questions to the forums, so here I am. I'm looking to make my Lightning team worth a damn as it's practically my weakest team. I've just managed to obtain enough Regalia for a Soul Weapon, and am curious what I should spend it on. A long time ago, I purchased Charles' Thunder Blaster, though that was probably because that was all that was out at the time.
Nowadays, I have much better Hime and every Soul except Shingen. With only 90/600 HSP, she's not going to be available for a long time.

My current set up (I swear I didn't mean to pun like that!) is Arthur, Marduk, Raiko, Tyr (Awakened), and Gryla; with [Thunder Witch] Michael and Thor in reserve. Arthur has Olean Call, though I don't know why, it's been a while since I've used this team. Main Eidolon is a 1star Kirin, and my Grid is shit.

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According to my brother, I'll have to work on those SSR weapons even if they don't have and breaks in them. In fact, I'll pay more attention and do that for all my teams.

So basically, what I'd like to know is:

1. If I should buy a new Soul Weapon, maybe for Mordred or Andromeda, or should I break the one I have for D'Art?
2. Should I stick with Gryla for heals or bring in Andromeda or the Sol I just got from this last MTick?

With Marduk, Raiko and Tyr you're fairly fast (even possibly Shingen fast). I'd replace Gryla with Thor (paralysis) and just take the hits. You should run Hercules with her Axe (at the least) and work to limit breaking that. It'll get you -25% DEF (which you're missing right now).

As recommended to your brother, any SSR weapon with both Assault/Defender should be leveled and also skill raised immediately. That means Raiko's and Marduk's are the first you should go for. An awesome choice is Raiko's; it gives Assault++/Pride which is all offense! Raise that shit first. Your team should benefit greatly just from that.

If you really need some healing, you can give Hercules Perdu lab and hope that keeps you going. Or use Orlean Call, but I wouldn't use Andromeda as your base soul. She'll slow you down and keep getting you killed. You need a soul that's fast in your first slot. That's either Shingen or Hercules. And either soul weapon is a solid long term investment.

Dejnov.

P.S. As above, MTix for Baal Unleashed for your 4th slot. Screw healing and just go all assault with Lightning.

Argo

04-01-2019, 12:20 AM

If you're base assault is around 50,000 Assault and 7,500 Hp, using a weapon that is Assault+ and Defender+ will add 6,5k assault and 975 hp when equipped (+13% each) which is a total bonus of 7,500 additional power. This far more than the 400 assault and 30 hp you lose when replacing an level 85 Assault+ SR. Add about four or five weapons like that and you'll add over 50% to your hitpoints, while losing very little assault. That takes the average Hime from 7,500 hp to 12,000 hp. Your survivability will go up dramatically.

Remember going from Assault+ (SR weapon) to Assault++ (SSR weapon) adds base 3% or an overall ~1.3% additional assault (rule of thumb). That means at 50,000 base assault even if the weapon loses 400 assault it gains 650 assault from the additional strength (net 250 assault for your team). That generally makes them a push. It's when it has the defender that there's no competition.

I don't think Artemis is necessary for the next MTix, you'd probably be better of picking up either Lugh, Iris, or Takeminakata if you're helping your Light team or picking up Pluto for your Dark team.

If you're around ~80 to 100% assault for Fire, it's fine to turn back to your main teams. That's around 12 to 15 skill level for SRs and 10 or so for SSRs. More helps, but you should really work to up your main team most of the time. If that's Light, look for an assault/defender weapon and up that and put it in your grid. You should see no loss in damage and decent up in hit points every time you replace them.

The Light SR lance is definitely not as strong as Eros or Frey's weapon. Replace that for sure. (I'd keep it just in case a phantom lance drops for you and you need to jump to five lance weapons immediately.)

Dejnov.

P.S. Keep the UE Axe we get some more chances at it in a couple of months. You can at least FLB the one you have (if it's already at skill level 20).

Stick with bricking Michael's Lance for now; Trish's weapon gets Assault (3rd skill) on her FLB upgrade. At that point it becomes viable. Look at your other Dark and Light weapons (Lances, Glaives, Hammers, and Bows) all have Assault. You'll want to Brick them (Chernobog's Lance for example).

Dejnov.

Alrighty then, I'll start working on my SSRs. Thanks for all the help again. Damn, guess I was wasting time leveling the SRs. So many wasted R weapons...oh well, live and learn. Should I replace the SRs in my grids with them right away (well, after they hit lv50), or is it better to wait until they get to an equivalent skill level to the SR they're replacing? Leveling skills feels like the slowest thing for me right now.

And these are my available SSRs for my Light, Dark, and Fires. Are there any I should prioritize over others? Like, for Darks Kali's weapon has Pride and Barrage, would that be more important than Amaterasu's mirror for example?
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And does getting a single Phantom drop really mean overhauling the whole grid? I thought you'd want several before committing to that.

And what do Lugh, Iris, and Takeminakata do? I hadn't heard of them before today. And who would they replace?
And I guess Pluto would probably replace Chernobog on my Darks were I to go after her, yes? Kyc was telling me about her earlier.

Unregistered

04-01-2019, 12:36 AM

Unregistered

04-01-2019, 12:50 AM

Lugh have 20% C frame def down, 400k nuke which turn into 800k after burst, and her 3rd skill which make her broken is reset her nuke with the cost of 15%...20% of her max HP, and you can use it every turn, I know, it crazy, the dev are on crack when making light hime so get use to it already, her passive is receive double the heal from any source to cover her suicidal 3rd skill. Iris have a 1m nuke 6t CD, a 30% light resist down (RIP Tsukuyomi no one will remember you) and a every turn spam gacha game on her 3rd skill which give her a random buff card ( 6 type of buff like assault, element atk, abi dmg, DA, TA,etc and a rainbow card) and 10% BG; when she burst all her buff card she hold activate for 3t I think, those buff are really strong and if you have rainbow card you get all 6 type of buff. Those 2 are future hime, about take you can look her up on wiki but tbh I don’t think she worth a MT

Argo

04-01-2019, 12:52 AM

The only grid I see having future is fire, dark and light is hopeless, please focus one 1 element at a time, finish 1 and move on to another.

Huh? What do you mean my Fire is better than my Light? I figure my Fires would need Svarog and Amaterasu before they become decent, whereas my Lights have been clearing content I never could before thanks to the tips I've been getting lately.
If you're talking about limit breaks on the weapons, I'm sorry but I'm no whale. And I'm not very lucky, either.

Unregistered

04-01-2019, 01:06 AM

Huh? What do you mean my Fire is better than my Light? I figure my Fires would need Svarog and Amaterasu before they become decent, whereas my Lights have been clearing content I never could before thanks to the tips I've been getting lately.
If you're talking about limit breaks on the weapons, I'm sorry but I'm no whale. And I'm not very lucky, either.

Ama is not that great in current meta, Uriel and Acala can carry you find and you can MT Svarog later, your fire grid only need shingen spear and 2 more vlad copy from ori shop to run spear null. Mars spear is one of the most powerful weapon in the game with Assault L defender S vigorous S so you better spend your brick on it, and you will have 2 FLB UE weapon in the next fire UE come about 1 more month. About your light, yeah maybe you have the hime, but your grid is sheet, you have no option for null grid, you can’t FLB your Phoenix bow because you don’t have enough mats, and you miss ALL FLB UE weapon, 5 OF THEM!!!. So yeah. That’s your fault for holding too long on a shitty Union.

Argo

04-01-2019, 01:16 AM

Ama is not that great in current meta, Uriel and Acala can carry you find and you can MT Svarog later, your fire grid only need shingen spear and 2 more vlad copy from ori shop to run spear null. Mars spear is one of the most powerful weapon in the game with Assault L defender S vigorous S so you better spend your brick on it, and you will have 2 FLB UE weapon in the next fire UE come about 1 more month. About your light, yeah maybe you have the hime, but your grid is sheet, you have no option for null grid, you can’t FLB your Phoenix bow because you don’t have enough mats, and you miss ALL FLB UE weapon, 5 OF THEM!!!. So yeah. That’s your fault for holding too long on a shitty Union.
Wow, rude.
Excuse me for a) wanting to operate a union with my brother, and b) not getting more serious about the game until recently. Do the light and dark union events not get any more reruns?
And my Acala isn't Awakened and won't be for a while, so she's extra glass being stuck with the def drop. I have no eyes right now.

Unregistered

04-01-2019, 01:36 AM

Wow, rude.
Excuse me for a) wanting to operate a union with my brother, and b) not getting more serious about the game until recently. Do the light and dark union events not get any more reruns?
And my Acala isn't Awakened and won't be for a while, so she's extra glass being stuck with the def drop. I have no eyes right now.

Oops sorry not try to be rude. Light and Dark have 1 more rerun and a extra greed so you will have total 4 FLB for each element. Yay... but null axe is still meh. I would still recommend fire but your choice I guess

Unregistered

04-01-2019, 01:41 AM

And for your eyes problem, I have nothing but good luck

Argo

04-01-2019, 02:05 AM

Oops sorry not try to be rude. Light and Dark have 1 more rerun and a extra greed so you will have total 4 FLB for each element. Yay... but null axe is still meh. I would still recommend fire but your choice I guess

And for your eyes problem, I have nothing but good luck

It's fine; I understand that I'm probably being irritating by asking so many questions. But I thirst for knowledge!
Alright, good to know. Well, now that we have allies we should be able to get more weapons out of the union battles and catch back up a little.
Thanks.

Quarters

04-01-2019, 02:52 AM

the fact that you have kirin and your thunder is the weakest element make me believe that you have 100% eido for other element too. Which mean you not gonna invest your MT on BaalU which make your team can’t run shingen. So i would say Herc is ok for your thunder team because it gonna stay shit forever because you already miss so many UE weapon

As for healing opption for your thunder team. If i were you i will go fuck heal and run Cyclops instead of Gryla. But if you still want to use thunder for s o m e r e a s o n. Then Sol AW is a good opption. Adro is for supporting Warag

Only have 2 100%ers: Kirin and Rudra, both at 1 star, though Rudra only due to a break item. Thunder is my weakest because my other teams have hime that work well together or have a lot more invested in them. I want to improve this team because about all it's good for is Water SP quests and Advent Battles. It can't handle Ultimate Raids very well and it certainly can't be used for Accessory Quests.

Light was my weakest until recently, but Eros, Metatron, and Midnight Maiden Tsukuyomi alongside Michael, Vishnu and Arthur/Masamune have made it much faster and outperforms my Thunders, even with Kirin.

As for a reason to use them...you don't? The best way to get materials/accessories for one element is to use the one it's weak to. When I want to boost my #1 team, I use my Fire Team. When I boost my #2, I'd like to be able to use my Thunder Team.

With Marduk, Raiko and Tyr you're fairly fast (even possibly Shingen fast). I'd replace Gryla with Thor (paralysis) and just take the hits. You should run Hercules with her Axe (at the least) and work to limit breaking that. It'll get you -25% DEF (which you're missing right now).

As recommended to your brother, any SSR weapon with both Assault/Defender should be leveled and also skill raised immediately. That means Raiko's and Marduk's are the first you should go for. An awesome choice is Raiko's; it gives Assault++/Pride which is all offense! Raise that shit first. Your team should benefit greatly just from that.

If you really need some healing, you can give Hercules Perdu lab and hope that keeps you going. Or use Orlean Call, but I wouldn't use Andromeda as your base soul. She'll slow you down and keep getting you killed. You need a soul that's fast in your first slot. That's either Shingen or Hercules. And either soul weapon is a solid long term investment.

Dejnov.

P.S. As above, MTix for Baal Unleashed for your 4th slot. Screw healing and just go all assault with Lightning.

I very nearly chose BaalU for the Mtik before this one, but decided on NikeU to give some love to my long suffering secondary team. It's funny that around the same time I pulled Poseidon, Cthulhu, and Ea.

My Fire team is also running Herc with the Axe, though I've only got the one copy so far. But it's working very well. Uriel (Awakened), Acala (Awakened), Kishar, and Brynhildr, with Ra and Yamaraja in reserve.

By far my most powerful team is Wind, and that's even with me gimping it with an entire spread of Wind Eidolons backing Pazuzu. Joan of Arc, Gaia (Awakened), Azazel, Hastur, and Set with CybeleU and Isis in reserve. +99 LV125 St.Gauche with SL20...I can autobattle most content, and when I pay attention I can solo Thunder Ultimates. Imagine if I put proper Eidos in there? And now that I've learned that unbroken SSRs are better than LV85 SRs, I'm expecting even more in the future. I'm thinking of either Titania or CuChulainn for the next Mtik.

Ama is not that great in current meta, Uriel and Acala can carry you find and you can MT Svarog later, your fire grid only need shingen spear and 2 more vlad copy from ori shop to run spear null. Mars spear is one of the most powerful weapon in the game with Assault L defender S vigorous S so you better spend your brick on it, and you will have 2 FLB UE weapon in the next fire UE come about 1 more month. About your light, yeah maybe you have the hime, but your grid is sheet, you have no option for null grid, you can’t FLB your Phoenix bow because you don’t have enough mats, and you miss ALL FLB UE weapon, 5 OF THEM!!!. So yeah. That’s your fault for holding too long on a shitty Union.

Oops sorry not try to be rude. Light and Dark have 1 more rerun and a extra greed so you will have total 4 FLB for each element. Yay... but null axe is still meh. I would still recommend fire but your choice I guess

Not buying the trying not to be rude thing. There are nicer ways to speak. But I guess that's just how human beings are these days.

We all have personal preferences, and if my Brother wishes to play Light, that's up to him. He's come to ask for advice to improve what he wants to improve. Responding to his earnest request is all well and good, but please try not to throw dirt on his ideas. Surely there's things you like to do that go against the grain?

I mentioned above that Wind is my most powerful team even with me gimping it with a full spread of Wind eidolons. It wasn't always that way. Gaia, Azazel, and Set were from Mtix. CybeleU and Isis are new from the last couple months. My point is, I had to work very hard to get Wind to where it is. Even early on saw my pulls leaning Water, though it took over a year before a single SSR showed up.
Nothing is impossible, just difficult.

It's fine; I understand that I'm probably being irritating by asking so many questions. But I thirst for knowledge!
Alright, good to know. Well, now that we have allies we should be able to get more weapons out of the union battles and catch back up a little.
Thanks.

You're nicer than I am. Just remember that we still have to work hard to get what we want from this game, even if we don't exactly know what that is. As long as we have fun with the way we all do things.

...
...
...

Okay, I think typing this and responding hours later while watching the God-damn Batman kick ass is messing with my head. (Batman vs Two-Face is a thing?!)

Quarters

04-01-2019, 03:13 AM

Not buying the trying not to be rude thing. There are nicer ways to speak. But I guess that's just how human beings are these days.

We all have personal preferences, and if my Brother wishes to play Light, that's up to him. He's come to ask for advice to improve what he wants to improve. Responding to his earnest request is all well and good, but please try not to throw dirt on his ideas. Surely there's things you like to do that go against the grain?

I mentioned above that Wind is my most powerful team even with me gimping it with a full spread of Wind eidolons. It wasn't always that way. Gaia, Azazel, and Set were from Mtix. CybeleU and Isis are new from the last couple months. My point is, I had to work very hard to get Wind to where it is. Even early on saw my pulls leaning Water, though it took over a year before a single SSR showed up.
Nothing is impossible, just difficult.

You're nicer than I am. Just remember that we still have to work hard to get what we want from this game, even if we don't exactly know what that is. As long as we have fun with the way we all do things.

...
...
...

Okay, I think typing this and responding hours later while watching the God-damn Batman kick ass is messing with my head. (Batman vs Two-Face is a thing?!)

Hm, I apologize if I've come across as preachy.

Dejnov

04-01-2019, 06:34 AM

Alrighty then, I'll start working on my SSRs. Thanks for all the help again. Damn, guess I was wasting time leveling the SRs. So many wasted R weapons...oh well, live and learn. Should I replace the SRs in my grids with them right away (well, after they hit lv50), or is it better to wait until they get to an equivalent skill level to the SR they're replacing? Leveling skills feels like the slowest thing for me right now.

And these are my available SSRs for my Light, Dark, and Fires. Are there any I should prioritize over others? Like, for Darks Kali's weapon has Pride and Barrage, would that be more important than Amaterasu's mirror for example?
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And does getting a single Phantom drop really mean overhauling the whole grid? I thought you'd want several before committing to that.

And what do Lugh, Iris, and Takeminakata do? I hadn't heard of them before today. And who would they replace?
And I guess Pluto would probably replace Chernobog on my Darks were I to go after her, yes? Kyc was telling me about her earlier.

I would only look to raise and include SSR weapons that are assault/defender. The dual assault/barrage and others are not nearly as useful, nor would I recommend trying to upgrade them to replace an SR that is MLBed. For those weapons they truly need to be limit breaked at least once before they can compete.

I would always prioritize Assault over all other skills. You don't need any single skill defender weapons in your grid (you should only put a defender into the grid when it also has assault or pride).

Phantom drops (I have none also) are not required; especially if you don't have 5 other of the same type. It's better to have a full grid of assault/defender weapons than to mess up and go with a weaker set of single skill weapons just to use the phantom weapon. Some phantom weapons are not great (about half of them) and don't give assault as a base skill. No one really is looking out to use them.

I would not replace Chernobog; she is phenomenal. With provisional forest on Herc and Pluto's and Kaiser Eidolon's damage ups activated, my Chernobog has been able to hit 1 Million burst against Light AQ5. You have to think how to use her. Her Cherno skill is great, she has high combo rate, and cuts burst gauge/raise her own burst gauge. Strong striker for your dark team.

I wouldn't worry about Pluto at this moment; it's just a suggestion for when you have a Miracle Ticket.

The other Lights I just mentioned are slowly being released this year; they are all phenomenal Himes. A lot of people advocate for raising a really strong team by using your Mtix to get them flexibility as opposed to strengthening a weak team. It focuses your resources and also keeps you growing. Light and Dark, but really Light, benefit from having no elemental weakness and are perfect for specializing in.

Dejnov.

Unregistered

04-01-2019, 10:20 AM

Only have 2 100%ers: Kirin and Rudra, both at 1 star, though Rudra only due to a break item. Thunder is my weakest because my other teams have hime that work well together or have a lot more invested in them. I want to improve this team because about all it's good for is Water SP quests and Advent Battles. It can't handle Ultimate Raids very well and it certainly can't be used for Accessory Quests.

Light was my weakest until recently, but Eros, Metatron, and Midnight Maiden Tsukuyomi alongside Michael, Vishnu and Arthur/Masamune have made it much faster and outperforms my Thunders, even with Kirin.

As for a reason to use them...you don't? The best way to get materials/accessories for one element is to use the one it's weak to. When I want to boost my #1 team, I use my Fire Team. When I boost my #2, I'd like to be able to use my Thunder Team.

I very nearly chose BaalU for the Mtik before this one, but decided on NikeU to give some love to my long suffering secondary team. It's funny that around the same time I pulled Poseidon, Cthulhu, and Ea.

My Fire team is also running Herc with the Axe, though I've only got the one copy so far. But it's working very well. Uriel (Awakened), Acala (Awakened), Kishar, and Brynhildr, with Ra and Yamaraja in reserve.

By far my most powerful team is Wind, and that's even with me gimping it with an entire spread of Wind Eidolons backing Pazuzu. Joan of Arc, Gaia (Awakened), Azazel, Hastur, and Set with CybeleU and Isis in reserve. +99 LV125 St.Gauche with SL20...I can autobattle most content, and when I pay attention I can solo Thunder Ultimates. Imagine if I put proper Eidos in there? And now that I've learned that unbroken SSRs are better than LV85 SRs, I'm expecting even more in the future. I'm thinking of either Titania or CuChulainn for the next Mtik.

Not buying the trying not to be rude thing. There are nicer ways to speak. But I guess that's just how human beings are these days.

We all have personal preferences, and if my Brother wishes to play Light, that's up to him. He's come to ask for advice to improve what he wants to improve. Responding to his earnest request is all well and good, but please try not to throw dirt on his ideas. Surely there's things you like to do that go against the grain?

I mentioned above that Wind is my most powerful team even with me gimping it with a full spread of Wind eidolons. It wasn't always that way. Gaia, Azazel, and Set were from Mtix. CybeleU and Isis are new from the last couple months. My point is, I had to work very hard to get Wind to where it is. Even early on saw my pulls leaning Water, though it took over a year before a single SSR showed up.
Nothing is impossible, just difficult.

You're nicer than I am. Just remember that we still have to work hard to get what we want from this game, even if we don't exactly know what that is. As long as we have fun with the way we all do things.

...
...
...

Okay, I think typing this and responding hours later while watching the God-damn Batman kick ass is messing with my head. (Batman vs Two-Face is a thing?!)

Look like you not like me and the way i “fix” your brother’s error, it’s ok, i understand you are a big bro so that is what you do.

I will give you some advice and i hope you like to hear it despite i’m rude because i feel trigger when ppl with money play the game poorly. Your wind need titania AW to actually funtion well, from this point i dont care about your grid anymore because it not important in your eyes, you have kirin and rudra but your water himes is not that impressive, so if i were you i will go full invest on thunder because of raiko and marduk anf their OP AW in future, your next MT will be Dian, and Thunder Apro in the next anniversary MT will be your last piece of that OP thunder comp. I believe that comp can compare to any top team from any element in this whole game and you can throw it in any content.

The reason why i say you shouldn’t care about thunder is i though you have a 100% eido in your strongest team and water tower( the only event that require you to use thunder) is just gone and will not come back in a year. A 100% eido add enough dmg for you to beat most content even if it’s on ELEMENTAL DISADVANTAGE ( at least for me tho, my fire team is the only team that can beat water AQ5, not try with GO yet because at that time i’m still not strong enough so waiting for it to come back and try it, and i’m not whale at all, i just buy 3 MT and a belial from reroll and that’s it, the 3rd MT is Mars mostly for her weapon, it’s not like i need her in my team), so yeah if you play right, elemental advantage is nothing, just a cherry on top.

I know you work hard, that’s why i recomment focus on 1 element at a time and max it before go to another, and if you have 100% eido, you probally don’t need other element whatsoever

kyc992

04-01-2019, 11:26 AM

And I guess Pluto would probably replace Chernobog on my Darks were I to go after her, yes?

Imo that is not a priority, and only something worth considering when Chernobog has already hit capped damage with buffs/debuffs and your other Himes are catching up with the upgrade of your weapon grid. Also I did mention it might be "more worth it" when we finally get Dark Rags, and you are able to give her triple Tiara. Pluto is decently fast, but would probably need the 15% DATA from Tiara to match your team efficiently.

I would not replace Chernobog; she is phenomenal. With provisional forest on Herc and Pluto's and Kaiser Eidolon's damage ups activated, my Chernobog has been able to hit 1 Million burst against Light AQ5. You have to think how to use her. Her Cherno skill is great, she has high combo rate, and cuts burst gauge/raise her own burst gauge. Strong striker for your dark team.

I wouldn't worry about Pluto at this moment; it's just a suggestion for when you have a Miracle Ticket.

Dejnov.

Edited:
I agree that "at this moment" it's not something he has to consider ASAP, and probably won't for a lil while. It's mainly because he has AW Satan, Thanatos, Osiris and wants to run a fast team with Shingen that I recommended Pluto for later on.

Chernobog is very strong(carries my dark together with Kali) but considering how we will eventually be getting debuff immune contents, the Lack of buffs might hurt. So it kinda felt like replace Cherno with Pluto at that point, which his weapon grid by then would be upgraded would benefit him well. Also, assuming he can get fast bursts, since PF is used every other full burst, it seems that Pluto could rotate buffs with PF for bursting(or even stack together).
AW Satan+Thanatos provides AC(15+20) frames Def Down and Drk RST(10) down which is useful for bosses he can debuff, and against immune they are the fastest(that I know of) himes for running Shingen. At least that's what was on my mind when I recommended him replacing Chernobog with Pluto in the far future.

Unregistered

04-01-2019, 12:01 PM

Imo that is not a priority, and only something worth considering when Chernobog has already hit capped damage with buffs/debuffs and your other Himes are catching up with the upgrade of your weapon grid. Also I did mention it might be "more worth it" when we finally get Dark Rags, and you are able to give her triple Tiara. Pluto is decently fast, but would probably need the 15% DATA from Tiara to match your team efficiently.

I agree that "at this moment" it's not something he has to consider ASAP, and probably won't for a lil while. It's mainly because he has AW Satan, Thanatos, Dark Ama and wants to run a fast team with Shingen that I recommended Pluto for later on.

Chernobog is very strong(carries my dark together with Kali) but considering how we will eventually be getting debuff immune contents, the Lack of buffs might hurt. So it kinda felt like replace Cherno with Pluto at that point, which his weapon grid by then would be upgraded would benefit him well. Also, assuming he can get fast bursts, since PF is used every other full burst, it seems that Pluto could rotate buffs with PF for bursting(or even stack together). AW Satan+Thanatos+Dark Ama provides ABC frames Def Down which is useful for bosses he can debuff, and against immune they are the fastest(that I know of) himes for running Shingen. At least that's what was in my mind when I recommended him replacing Chernobog with Pluto in the far future.

I don’t think dark is fast enough to keep up with shingen, the first rotation maybe but after that they are dead weight

Dejnov

04-01-2019, 12:13 PM

I will give you some advice and i hope you like to hear it despite i’m rude because i feel trigger when ppl with money play the game poorly. Your wind need titania AW to actually funtion well, from this point i dont care about your grid anymore because it not important in your eyes, you have kirin and rudra but your water himes is not that impressive, so if i were you i will go full invest on thunder because of raiko and marduk anf their OP AW in future, your next MT will be Dian, and Thunder Apro in the next anniversary MT will be your last piece of that OP thunder comp. I believe that comp can compare to any top team from any element in this whole game and you can throw it in any content.

The reason why i say you shouldn’t care about thunder is i though you have a 100% eido in your strongest team and water tower( the only event that require you to use thunder) is just gone and will not come back in a year. A 100% eido add enough dmg for you to beat most content even if it’s on ELEMENTAL DISADVANTAGE ( at least for me tho, my fire team is the only team that can beat water AQ5, not try with GO yet because at that time i’m still not strong enough so waiting for it to come back and try it, and i’m not whale at all, i just buy 3 MT and a belial from reroll and that’s it, the 3rd MT is Mars mostly for her weapon, it’s not like i need her in my team), so yeah if you play right, elemental advantage is nothing, just a cherry on top.

I know you work hard, that’s why i recomment focus on 1 element at a time and max it before go to another, and if you have 100% eido, you probally don’t need other element whatsoever

I've got to second this sentiment here. Your brother (and yourself) suffer from what I like to call 'griditis'. It's like arthritis, but only more painful:rofl:

You haven't had the focus to advance one grid to skill level 20 all SSRs yet. Having OP Himes without the grid will only get you so far. Getting that first grid up (for any element you choose) is how you'll advance through all content quickly and easily.

The dirty secret for Kamihime is that it's an exponential game. The grid adds exponentially and you can blow standard content out of the water very quickly. A couple of OP Himes, a 100% Eido and an awesome soul and you don't need a second element. I only run a Dark team, in addition to my main Light team, is because it's already damn near maxed and you have to spend time on something else, go for the team that'll farm for your main team.

Get that grid up and see how your team runs after that. You might even feel strong enough to drop all healing completely!!

Dejnov.

kyc992

04-01-2019, 12:16 PM

I don’t think dark is fast enough to keep up with shingen, the first rotation maybe but after that they are dead weight

Wasn't thinking clearly, morning and all... I meant Osiris not Dark Ama. Yes I was worried about the speed too, but since I don't have Osiris nor Shingen, I couldn't test for him and could only go by theory and advised him to do a quick test to see if he can full burst on turn4, and whether or not cooldowns and stuff would allow him to full burst on turn8. He just has to see whether or not on turn 8 he has at least the following gauges: 55~70/90/80/70/60. 55(lance) or 70(bow but should be unlikely?) on Shingen so he can factor in whether or not it works IF he gets the soul weapon+MLB. This will allow him 2 fast full bursts, but ideally he wants to be able to reach 105/120 so he can use PF without sacrificing turns.

BRB gonna edit my previous post, hahaha.

Unregistered

04-01-2019, 12:20 PM

And these are my available SSRs for my Light, Dark, and Fires. Are there any I should prioritize over others? Like, for Darks Kali's weapon has Pride and Barrage, would that be more important than Amaterasu's mirror for example?
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I do concur that fire is your best bet at a good grid, you're not very far from a pretty decent one. All you really need is to brick Mar's spear and flb it in may and you're basically set. Best of all, both imporant fire UE weapons are still to come, so you haven't missed anything important there. Even if you don't want to main fire in the long run, working on it now for the next tower would be the best option, IMO.

That said, if you really want to play light, that's okay too, you're actually not too bad off despite the missed stuff. One of the downsides of light is a crappy free grid (but strong himes), so despite all the things you have missed, you're really not missing out on too much. There will be more stuff in the future, it'll just take you a while to get there. If you want a truly good grid for light, it's expensive. You will need to mtix Lugh, brick her spear, michael's spear, and tish spear eventually (when the flb comes), and pick up another filler spear (a dragon eye spear would be best). Definitely not for the faint of heart, but no one said become op would be easy.

Dark though... the stuff you missed really hurts, and I can't really recommend investing any effort into that element until we see some light down that tunnel first.

Unregistered

04-01-2019, 12:29 PM

Wasn't thinking clearly, morning and all... I meant Osiris not Dark Ama. Yes I was worried about the speed too, but since I don't have Osiris nor Shingen, I couldn't test for him and could only go by theory and advised him to do a quick test to see if he can full burst on turn4, and whether or not cooldowns and stuff would allow him to full burst on turn8. He just has to see whether or not on turn 8 he has at least the following gauges: 55~70/90/80/70/60. 55(lance) or 70(bow but should be unlikely?) on Shingen so he can factor in whether or not it works IF he gets the soul weapon+MLB. This will allow him 2 fast full bursts, but ideally he wants to be able to reach 105/120 so he can use PF without sacrificing turns.

BRB gonna edit my previous post, hahaha.

Shingen can hold herself find in 4 turn burst cycle, but the problem is dark hime can’t hold themself, name me a dark hime that can consistantly generate 70-80 BG in 3 turn ?

Dejnov

04-01-2019, 12:45 PM

Shingen can hold herself find in 4 turn burst cycle, but the problem is dark hime can’t hold themself, name me a dark hime that can consistantly generate 70-80 BG in 3 turn ?

With tiara accessories, Chernobog can (and so can Thanatos). Just don't activate her Cherno power (until you burst). If you pair her with Thanatos, Satan Awakened and Osiris you have a very fast Dark team, with only DEF debuffs (and one lousy dizzy debuff on Osiris). Pick up Shingen and Encourage Inspiration and go to town!!

Dejnov.

kyc992

04-01-2019, 12:52 PM

Shingen can hold herself find in 4 turn burst cycle, but the problem is dark hime can’t hold themself, name me a dark hime that can consistantly generate 70-80 BG in 3 turn ?

"Yes I was worried about the speed too, but since I don't have Osiris nor Shingen, I couldn't test for him and could only go by theory" In case you didn't see this.

Since I don't have Shingen, and I admit not being the most knowledgeable since everything I know is from reading forums and theory crafting... but to answer your question I'd need to know whether or not people run Encourage Inspiration(I'd like to know cause I'll eventually have Shingen too).

Osiris provides Burst Gauge 15% on a 5t cooldown, which can be effectively used every "first" turn after burst. So effectively he only needs 75/65/55/45 burst gauge in 3 turns without Dark Harvest.

1st hime) If we place Thanatos on the first slot(excluding soul), every other burst she has Grim Reaper for 25% which would be best used together with Shingen's Stallion Gale. So effectively she only needs 2 doubles or 1 triple during the 3 turns. Succeed Death is 90% burst gauge in 3 turns, used when Shingen's SG is on cooldown.

2nd hime) Chernobog has Groom wrap(+30) and Chemnostar Flush(DATA BUFF) on a 5turn cooldown. That means she'll be able to use it every "first turn" after burst. Being in the second spot means she needs 65 burst gauge and she already has 30 covered, that leaves her with 35 over 3 turns.

3rd hime) AW Satan has Fall from Heaven(DATA buff) which she'll alternate with Shingen's SG, and being in the third slot means she only needs to generate 55 burst gauge but of course still a bit of RNG involved.

4th hime) Osiris does not have a DATA buff, but she is required for her Dark Harvest. Place her in the last spot and she only needs 45 burst gauge, but this is the tricky part which relies on RNG.

Now if Encourage Inspiration is a skill that is worth being ran as EX, that essentially covers 20 burst gauge and can be saved for when you end up being in that unlucky situation where you are 10-20 burst gauge short.

These are the dark himes Argo has, it seems to work? But like I said, I do not own Shingen or Osiris and can only go by theory crafting. So I could be wrong which is why I suggested him to test the team directly. At least by testing there is a chance it will work for him, and by NOT testing then it'll never work.

p.s If I made a mistake, please refute me. I'd like to learn.

With tiara accessories, Chernobog can (and so can Thanatos). Just don't activate her Cherno power (until you burst). If you pair her with Thanatos, Satan Awakened and Osiris you have a very fast Dark team, with only DEF debuffs (and one lousy dizzy debuff on Osiris). Pick up Shingen and Encourage Inspiration and go to town!!

Dejnov.

I thought triple tiara DATA buff only works if you've unlocked all 5 accessory slots? If that is true, then it's still quite a ways far off isn't it?

Unregistered

04-01-2019, 12:54 PM

With tiara accessories, Chernobog can (and so can Thanatos). Just don't activate her Cherno power (until you burst). If you pair her with Thanatos, Satan Awakened and Osiris you have a very fast Dark team, with only DEF debuffs (and one lousy dizzy debuff on Osiris). Pick up Shingen and Encourage Inspiration and go to town!!

Dejnov.

Cheno can if you not active her 3rd skill, thana skill cooldown is too long you you won’t have it in the 2nd rotation, osi BG skill is stupid, 15% BG is no different with 10% BG in 4t burst cycle, Satan AW is decent but no way she can hold in 1 slot that require 90BG in 3 turn, nice try but again pls

Unregistered

04-01-2019, 01:02 PM

"Yes I was worried about the speed too, but since I don't have Osiris nor Shingen, I couldn't test for him and could only go by theory" In case you didn't see this.

Since I don't have Shingen, and I admit not being the most knowledgeable since everything I know is from reading forums and theory crafting... but to answer your question I'd need to know whether or not people run Encourage Inspiration(I'd like to know cause I'll eventually have Shingen too).

Osiris provides Burst Gauge 15% on a 5t cooldown, which can be effectively used every "first" turn after burst. So effectively he only needs 75/65/55/45 burst gauge in 3 turns without Dark Harvest.

1st hime) If we place Thanatos on the first slot(excluding soul), every other burst she has Grim Reaper for 25% which would be best used together with Shingen's Stallion Gale. So effectively she only needs 2 doubles or 1 triple during the 3 turns. Succeed Death is 90% burst gauge in 3 turns, used when Shingen's SG is on cooldown.

2nd hime) Chernobog has Groom wrap(+30) and Chemnostar Flush(DATA BUFF) on a 5turn cooldown. That means she'll be able to use it every "first turn" after burst. Being in the second spot means she needs 65 burst gauge and she already has 30 covered, that leaves her with 35 over 3 turns.

3rd hime) AW Satan has Fall from Heaven(DATA buff) which she'll alternate with Shingen's SG, and being in the third slot means she only needs to generate 55 burst gauge but of course still a bit of RNG involved.

4th hime) Osiris does not have a DATA buff, but she is required for her Dark Harvest. Place her in the last spot and she only needs 45 burst gauge, but this is the tricky part which relies on RNG.

Now if Encourage Inspiration is a skill that is worth being ran as EX, that essentially covers 20 burst gauge and can be saved for when you end up being in that unlucky situation where you are 10-20 burst gauge short.

These are the dark himes Argo has, it seems to work? But like I said, I do not own Shingen or Osiris and can only go by theory crafting. So I could be wrong which is why I suggested him to test the team directly. At least by testing there is a chance it will work for him, and by NOT testing then it'll never work.

p.s If I made a mistake, please refute me. I'd like to learn.

I thought triple tiara DATA buff only works if you've unlocked all 5 accessory slots? If that is true, then it's still quite a ways far off isn't it?

No you are right but just in the first burst cycle, Shingen can generate 12 Bg on her AA, have base 25% combo rate, 25% more with her buff, 35% on her 1st skill with 3t cd, and her burst give her back 25%, so she generate averate 30BG per turn CONSISTANTLY, there’re no dark hime can keep up with that consistancy, her MEX is party buff so i not gonna mention it

kyc992

04-01-2019, 01:20 PM

No you are right but just in the first burst cycle, Shingen can generate 12 Bg on her AA, have base 25% combo rate, 25% more with her buff, 35% on her 1st skill with 3t cd, and her burst give her back 25%, so she generate averate 30BG per turn CONSISTANTLY, there’re no dark hime can keep up with that consistancy, her MEX is party buff so i not gonna mention it

Hmm but can't we think of it like this?

Burst Gauge requirements excluding BG from Osiris DH
Without EI:
Thanatos: 75
Chernobog: 65
Satan: 55
Osiris: 45

With EI:
Thanatos: 55
Chernobog: 45
Satan: 35
Osiris: 25

First Cycle:
Turn 1: Shingen Stallion Gale(party DATA), Thanatos Grim Reaper(25), Chernobog Groom wrap(30)+Chemnostar Flush(DATA), Osiris Dark Harvest(15)
Turn 4: Burst

Second Cycle:
Turn 5: Thanatos Succeed Death(90), Chernobog Groom wrap(30)+Chemnostar Flush(DATA), Satan Fall from Heaven(DATA), Osiris Dark Harvest(15)
Turn 8: Burst

Repeat the above 2 "rotations" and use Encourage Inspiration if you have a hime that lacks 10-20 burst gauge for a full burst?
I still think it is very viable, just maybe, maybe there is that ONE turn(rng giving you 0 data) which instead of 4T burst you are at 5T burst... but wouldn't that still be better than NOT aiming for a fast team and sticking with ~6T bursts?

Dejnov

04-01-2019, 01:47 PM

Cheno can if you not active her 3rd skill, thana skill cooldown is too long you you won’t have it in the 2nd rotation, osi BG skill is stupid, 15% BG is no different with 10% BG in 4t burst cycle, Satan AW is decent but no way she can hold in 1 slot that require 90BG in 3 turn, nice try but again pls

But you don't actually have to generate burst in 3T and burst on 4th. You can just as easily run a dark team that generates burst in 4T and bursts on 5th. You then won't have to activate both powers each cycle to get to 90 (first cycle is encourage and grim reaper for bonus 45, cherno with her burst up power for a bonus 50, and 20 to the others), while saving either Osi's and their attack up powers for the 2nd cycle, then rinse back to the first set. You won't slow down and can keep this up continuously.

That allows you to run Shingen with Encourage Inspiration as your Soul and Thanatos, Chernobog, SatanAW, and Osiris (or Pluto) as your Himes. That's a fairly fast strong team, with -50% DEF down, orb eat, heal OR damage cut, and attack% up.

But the real beauty of a dark team like this is that almost everything else is free to play. You can pick up Jack O'Lantern from the Eido shop and she gives 45% Dark Element attack and Zeal (for later bursts). And Dark has the absolute best F2P grid. Their UE are all Pride/Defender OR Assault/Exceed. Do two or three of these and a couple of Hime weapons and you should easily have a 9 assault, 6 defender, 3 exceed grid (plus soul weapon in 10th slot). That's damn near perfect.

Heck if you picked up the Butterfly Bow (assault/defender), Apocalypse Spear (assault/defender), Amphi's Dragon Blade (defender/assault) or even the shitty Oricalcum Axe (defender/assault!!) will work to give you that full assault/defender (with a little exceed) grid that every other element is shitting over. Then slowly brick the Hime weapons for total power, awaken Thanatos in 12 months (which means she'll be much faster on her skills as they all go down one cycle time) and you're starting to burst fairly quickly.

Once you hit debuff resistant content you just phase out SatanAW (for Pluto) and you should be good to go. You'll still have one DEF debuff and one dizzy skill that will be wasted. Not the end of the world on skills.

Dejnov.

P.S. You also keep forgetting that even though Shingen can generate 30 burst per turn, she has to generate 150 total burst to max out provisional forest. Which means every two cycles she's got to generate a total of 250 burst (one with PF and one without). That works out to around 8T on her cycle which is approximately a 4T (burst on 5th) cycle time for her. The Dark team above can easily keep up with that.

Unregistered

04-01-2019, 04:26 PM

But you don't actually have to generate burst in 3T and burst on 4th. You can just as easily run a dark team that generates burst in 4T and bursts on 5th. You then won't have to activate both powers each cycle to get to 90 (first cycle is encourage and grim reaper for bonus 45, cherno with her burst up power for a bonus 50, and 20 to the others), while saving either Osi's and their attack up powers for the 2nd cycle, then rinse back to the first set. You won't slow down and can keep this up continuously.

That allows you to run Shingen with Encourage Inspiration as your Soul and Thanatos, Chernobog, SatanAW, and Osiris (or Pluto) as your Himes. That's a fairly fast strong team, with -50% DEF down, orb eat, heal OR damage cut, and attack% up.

But the real beauty of a dark team like this is that almost everything else is free to play. You can pick up Jack O'Lantern from the Eido shop and she gives 45% Dark Element attack and Zeal (for later bursts). And Dark has the absolute best F2P grid. Their UE are all Pride/Defender OR Assault/Exceed. Do two or three of these and a couple of Hime weapons and you should easily have a 9 assault, 6 defender, 3 exceed grid (plus soul weapon in 10th slot). That's damn near perfect.

Heck if you picked up the Butterfly Bow (assault/defender), Apocalypse Spear (assault/defender), Amphi's Dragon Blade (defender/assault) or even the shitty Oricalcum Axe (defender/assault!!) will work to give you that full assault/defender (with a little exceed) grid that every other element is shitting over. Then slowly brick the Hime weapons for total power, awaken Thanatos in 12 months (which means she'll be much faster on her skills as they all go down one cycle time) and you're starting to burst fairly quickly.

Once you hit debuff resistant content you just phase out SatanAW (for Pluto) and you should be good to go. You'll still have one DEF debuff and one dizzy skill that will be wasted. Not the end of the world on skills.

Dejnov.

P.S. You also keep forgetting that even though Shingen can generate 30 burst per turn, she has to generate 150 total burst to max out provisional forest. Which means every two cycles she's got to generate a total of 250 burst (one with PF and one without). That works out to around 8T on her cycle which is approximately a 4T (burst on 5th) cycle time for her. The Dark team above can easily keep up with that.

1. Yep the dark team above can keep up with 5t burst cycle, i’m not gonna agure with that but osiris is a weak hime untill her rebalance and she only there for her BG skill, she will take Pluto slot just to make sure Satan and Thanatos keep up with the burst cycle

2.Yeah most dark weapon is free but they have no option for a good null grid unless you are a big whale. A good null grid with all weapon FLB give you 6000-7000 base stat which is 11% more dmg overal, and if your null weapon have assault, it’s a free 20% more dmg overal on ONE weapon.

So yeah null axe with 4 dark UE axe and herc axe is his only option, it’s decent i guess, i think both of them lack 1 or 2 axe. And if you not run null grid to prio the 9 assault 6 defender 3 exeed dream. Well then the value of your assault decrease because you have too much assault compare to raw stat. Tell me which is better 189% assault 50k stat vs 168%(184% if the null have assault) assault 56k stat, easy math right ?

3.Thanatos AW do not offer any party BG solution for your team, it just make him hold his 1 slot better

4.Shingen only need 2 DA or 1 TA in 3 turn to PF FB at turn 4 so yeah no problem unless you unlucky af

5. Now i think about it osi wierd BG skill so work really good with thana and satan AW because their BG skill is wierd too, but she gonna need 1 lucky combo hit from her 11% combo rate every 4t turn to keep up with the burst cycle so good luck, shingen can help her in the first cycle but not in the 2nd, will be better when tiara set come out but it still RNG in 2nd cycle.

6.Choose osi for fast but clumsy weak dmg burst or Pluto for slow strong burst, that’s dark only 2 option.

Unregistered

04-01-2019, 04:33 PM

Hmm but can't we think of it like this?

Burst Gauge requirements excluding BG from Osiris DH
Without EI:
Thanatos: 75
Chernobog: 65
Satan: 55
Osiris: 45

With EI:
Thanatos: 55
Chernobog: 45
Satan: 35
Osiris: 25

First Cycle:
Turn 1: Shingen Stallion Gale(party DATA), Thanatos Grim Reaper(25), Chernobog Groom wrap(30)+Chemnostar Flush(DATA), Osiris Dark Harvest(15)
Turn 4: Burst

Second Cycle:
Turn 5: Thanatos Succeed Death(90), Chernobog Groom wrap(30)+Chemnostar Flush(DATA), Satan Fall from Heaven(DATA), Osiris Dark Harvest(15)
Turn 8: Burst

Repeat the above 2 "rotations" and use Encourage Inspiration if you have a hime that lacks 10-20 burst gauge for a full burst?
I still think it is very viable, just maybe, maybe there is that ONE turn(rng giving you 0 data) which instead of 4T burst you are at 5T burst... but wouldn't that still be better than NOT aiming for a fast team and sticking with ~6T bursts?

So you want osi combo 2 time in 3 turn with her pathetic 11% combo rate (36% with shingen DATA buff ) ?

Dejnov

04-01-2019, 05:21 PM

2.Yeah most dark weapon is free but they have no option for a good null grid unless you are a big whale. A good null grid with all weapon FLB give you 6000-7000 base stat which is 11% more dmg overal, and if your null weapon have assault, it’s a free 20% more dmg overal on ONE weapon.

So yeah null axe with 4 dark UE axe and herc axe is his only option, it’s decent i guess, i think both of them lack 1 or 2 axe. And if you not run null grid to prio the 9 assault 6 defender 3 exeed dream. Well then the value of your assault decrease because you have too much assault compare to raw stat. Tell me which is better 189% assault 50k stat vs 168%(184% if the null have assault) assault 56k stat, easy math right ?

You do have an option: It's hammers. They have Carnage (Assault+++). You'll have three Assault/Exceed hammers from the Union Event, which means you only have to find two more. Nephthys has an assault/defender SSR hammer. After that either Manes or Andhaka's SR Hammers are an option for your fifth. That'll give you 9 Assault, 3 Exceed and 5 Defender grid. If you use Andhaka's she has Assault and Rush on her Hammer.

I believe that comes darn near close to an ultimate grid.

Dejnov.

P.S. There are at least 4 advent events that had Dark SR Hammers with Assault. Any will work for that last sole spot.

kyc992

04-01-2019, 05:25 PM

So you want osi combo 2 time in 3 turn with her pathetic 11% combo rate (36% with shingen DATA buff ) ?

1) 36% = 36 times in 100 = slightly more than 1 in 3, a lucky triple would do the job. But in a more realistic scenario it would be 1 double within the 3 turns. Factor in cooldown on EI and that means you would be doing either a 4T burst or a 5T burst.

2) "maybe there is that ONE turn(rng giving you 0 data) which instead of 4T burst you are at 5T burst." I'm pretty sure being able to full burst on average once every 4.5 turns is decent enough to be considered "possible for a fast team". Unless you are going to say: EVERYTHING IS SHIT AND PATHETIC AND IMPOSSIBLE IF IT CAN'T DO A 4T BURST 100% OF THE TIME, which by the way is the very impression I keep getting from you even though you may or may not mean it that way.

3) Relying too much on RNG can be a factor as to why it is not viable, and I do agree that the party could be better if there was a more stable factor involved. But ultimately it is still theory crafting and does not hurt to experiment. It would be helpful if you had everything I mentioned(which Argo does have, but I don't hence "theory crafting") and could make a video of a test run that lasts multiple turns so we can see with clarity that it in fact will never work. That way Argo can see clearly it won't work, and I will also know that it's something I should not aim for in the future.

4) A discussion is better held by providing facts, numbers, and theories of possibilities to the table, accepting mistakes and amending thoughts to discuss further is more beneficial to both parties. By trying to prove yourself right "just because you said so" while ignoring any and every fact the other party brings is not discussing but imposing your opinion on others, which is usually what SJWs do and I hope I'm having a discussion(and continue doing so) with someone more logical than those heinous freeloaders.

Unregistered

04-01-2019, 05:44 PM

You do have an option: It's hammers. They have Carnage (Assault+++). You'll have three Assault/Exceed hammers from the Union Event, which means you only have to find two more. Nephthys has an assault/defender SSR hammer. After that either Manes or Andhaka's SR Hammers are an option for your fifth. That'll give you 9 Assault, 3 Exceed and 5 Defender grid. If you use Andhaka's she has Assault and Rush on her Hammer.

I believe that comes darn near close to an ultimate grid.

Dejnov.

P.S. There are at least 4 advent events that had Dark SR Hammers with Assault. Any will work for that last sole spot.

A SR with M assault is 1500 stat and 8% assault behind a FLB SSR, that’s a big dmg lose that the 16% assault from hammer just enough to balance back. So yeah not much different.

Unregistered

04-01-2019, 06:01 PM

1) 36% = 36 times in 100 = slightly more than 1 in 3, a lucky triple would do the job. But in a more realistic scenario it would be 1 double within the 3 turns. Factor in cooldown on EI and that means you would be doing either a 4T burst or a 5T burst.

2) "maybe there is that ONE turn(rng giving you 0 data) which instead of 4T burst you are at 5T burst." I'm pretty sure being able to full burst on average once every 4.5 turns is decent enough to be considered "possible for a fast team". Unless you are going to say: EVERYTHING IS SHIT AND PATHETIC AND IMPOSSIBLE IF IT CAN'T DO A 4T BURST 100% OF THE TIME, which by the way is the very impression I keep getting from you even though you may or may not mean it that way.

3) Relying too much on RNG can be a factor as to why it is not viable, and I do agree that the party could be better if there was a more stable factor involved. But ultimately it is still theory crafting and does not hurt to experiment. It would be helpful if you had everything I mentioned(which Argo does have, but I don't hence "theory crafting") and could make a video of a test run that lasts multiple turns so we can see with clarity that it in fact will never work. That way Argo can see clearly it won't work, and I will also know that it's something I should not aim for in the future.

4) A discussion is better held by providing facts, numbers, and theories of possibilities to the table, accepting mistakes and amending thoughts to discuss further is more beneficial to both parties. By trying to prove yourself right "just because you said so" while ignoring any and every fact the other party brings is not discussing but imposing your opinion on others, which is usually what SJWs do and I hope I'm having a discussion(and continue doing so) with someone more logical than those heinous freeloaders.

You know Shingen combo buff only have 2 turn up time right ?, so, in the cycle you don’t have EI, Osiris will need to get 45 BG( or 50 what’s the difference) in 3t, let see, t1 36%, 1/3 chance you success , turn 2 also 1/3 chance to success , turn 3 when combo buff go off, 1/10 chance to success. And you need 2 out of 3 success to FB on turn 4, hmmmmmm, turn 3 probably hopeless so I just care about turn 1 and 2, hit 36% success rate 2 time in a row, sound fucking realistic, miss 1 and hit 1, yeah can happen and you will BT in turn 5, miss both, which is the most possible scenario, then FB in turn 6 then. Is that enough facts, numbers, and theories for you ?

Unregistered

04-01-2019, 06:47 PM

P/s: anything can’t do 4t FB is pathetic because it’s a different from a raid MVP with tons of null weps and magna to a unfortunate 3rd place with just seed and useless mats

nut

04-01-2019, 06:51 PM

A SR with M assault is 1500 stat and 8% assault behind a FLB SSR, that’s a big dmg lose that the 16% assault from hammer just enough to balance back. So yeah not much different.

Most dark SR hammer recently is around 1800 atk, and the null hammer is 30% assault

Slashley

04-01-2019, 06:53 PM

P/s: anything can’t do 4t FB is pathetic because it’s a different from a raid MVP with tons of null weps and magna to a unfortunate 3rd place with just seed and useless matsWhat is this even trying to say.
Most dark SR hammer recently is around 1800 atk, and the null hammer is 30% assault23%. 30% is skill level 30, but you can't FLB Phantom weapons.

kyc992

04-01-2019, 06:58 PM

Osiris hitting no double/triple
Turn 1: EI(20)+DH(15) = 35
Turn 4: Burst
Turn 6: DH(15)
Turn 7: EI(20)
Turn 8: Burst
Turn 11: DH(15)
Turn 13: Burst
Turn 14: EI(20), don't need it on turn 13
Turn 16: DH(15)
Turn 17: Burst
Turn 20: EI(20)
Turn 21: DH(15)+Burst
Turn 26: DH(15)+Burst
Turn 27: EI(20)
Turn 31: Burst
Turn 32: DH(15)
Turn 33: EI(20)
Turn 35: Burst

Math done assuming all other 3 himes don't have BG/DATA issues and only Osiris can't hit a double/triple. 1turn=10BG, data shows 8th burst on 35th turn OR 4.375 turn bursts with 0 DA/TA from Osiris.

P/s: anything can’t do 4t FB is pathetic because it’s a different from a raid MVP with tons of null weps and magna to a unfortunate 3rd place with just seed and useless mats
By your logic, anyone who can't get MVP shouldn't bother with raids because they are pathetic. Then let's leave those who can get MVP to go solo a raid without other people debuffing or using raid-wide buffs. Oh, and since people are pathetic any ways, they probably shouldn't bother playing the game.

And apparently, you could not understand me when I was trying to be civil and indirect but that's not working so I'll just be straightforward here. It's obvious you're a dick but still, tone it down.

P.S. By the way, can I see how awesome you are soloing Rag raid? Record a video so everybody can see how great you are at this game. Since you are that awesome, you will obviously be MVP. And since you are the MVP the other 19 surely aren't even needed this should be very easy for you.

Unregistered

04-01-2019, 06:58 PM

Most dark SR hammer recently is around 1800 atk, and the null hammer is 30% assault
Oh i don’t know about the assault, my mistake then. A FLB SSR usually have 3800-3900 stat with +99 and null. The SR will be at 2600-2700 with +99 and null i think, yeah hammer grid is worth runing

nut

04-01-2019, 06:59 PM

What is this even trying to say.23%. 30% is skill level 30, but you can't FLB Phantom weapons.

Null hammer is confirmed 30% assault, it's different from the new UE weapon, 10% base and 1% each skill level

Unregistered

04-01-2019, 07:01 PM

What is this even trying to say.23%. 30% is skill level 30, but you can't FLB Phantom weapons.

Oh i many time lost the MVP in Hrag because i’m not fast enough to release the last FB, probally happen to you too

Unregistered

04-01-2019, 07:07 PM

Osiris hitting no double/triple
Turn 1: EI(20)+DH(15) = 35
Turn 4: Burst
Turn 6: DH(15)
Turn 7: EI(20)
Turn 8: Burst
Turn 11: DH(15)
Turn 13: Burst
Turn 14: EI(20), don't need it on turn 13
Turn 16: DH(15)
Turn 17: Burst
Turn 20: EI(20)
Turn 21: DH(15)+Burst
Turn 26: DH(15)+Burst
Turn 27: EI(20)
Turn 31: Burst
Turn 32: DH(15)
Turn 33: EI(20)
Turn 35: Burst

Math done assuming all other 3 himes don't have BG/DATA issues and only Osiris can't hit a double/triple. 1turn=10BG, data shows 8th burst on 35th turn OR 4.375 turn bursts with 0 DA/TA from Osiris.

By your logic, anyone who can't get MVP shouldn't bother with raids because they are pathetic. Then let's leave those who can get MVP to go solo a raid without other people debuffing or using raid-wide buffs. Oh, and since people are pathetic any ways, they probably shouldn't bother playing the game.

And apparently, you could not understand me when I was trying to be civil and indirect but that's not working so I'll just be straightforward here. It's obvious you're a dick but still, tone it down.

P.S. By the way, can I see how awesome you are soloing Rag raid? Record a video so everybody can see how great you are at this game. Since you are that awesome, you will obviously be MVP. And since you are the MVP the other 19 surely aren't even needed this should be very easy for you.

Jesus you use EI in 1st turn ?, how can you do PF then?, the typical shingen PF FB combo is
T1: 1st skill and 3rd skill
T2: aa
T3: aa
T4: if shingen have 2 DA or 1 TA is the last 3 turn, she will end up with 96BG, just enough to use combo PF+1st skill + EI to FB with PF

Unregistered

04-01-2019, 07:15 PM

Oh now talking about shingen, you not allow her to use her combo skill in the first burst cycle, how can she do 2 DA or 1 TA in 3 turn with her base 25% combo rate ?, more and more problem coming out

Slashley

04-01-2019, 07:20 PM

Null hammer is confirmed 30% assault, it's different from the new UE weapon, 10% base and 1% each skill levelSource?
Oh i many time lost the MVP in Hrag because i’m not fast enough to release the last FB, probally happen to you tooI still don't even understand what you're trying to say. Can you calm down, and actually type a proper sentence with proper context and grammar, please.

Unregistered

04-01-2019, 07:23 PM

Unregistered

04-01-2019, 07:32 PM

Source?I still don't even understand what you're trying to say. Can you calm down, and actually type a proper sentence with proper context and grammar, please.

I’m trying to say that in a laggy ragnarork raid, you get MVP or not is depent on how fast you FB( most ppl have similar grid power if they are a true dealer not a leacher) usually the 2nd or 3rd one is the one that you can’t release before the raid end. And about my broken English, sorry because English is not my first language

kyc992

04-01-2019, 07:34 PM

Jesus you use EI in 1st turn ?, how can you do PF then?, the typical shingen PF FB combo is
T1: 1st skill and 3rd skill
T2: aa
T3: aa
T4: if shingen have 2 DA or 1 TA is the last 3 turn, she will end up with 96BG, just enough to use combo PF+1st skill + EI to FB with PF

My method is not optimal, and probably shouldn't ever be used. Just trying to refute how a certain someone thinks "it is impossible" for a dark team to be decently fast. Afterall to that person, Osiris may as well never DATA even with buffs, any and everything that can't 4 turn burst is always pathetic and shit.

Unregistered

04-01-2019, 07:44 PM

My method is not optimal, and probably shouldn't ever be used. Just trying to refute how a certain someone thinks "it is impossible" for a dark team to be decently fast. Afterall to that person, Osiris may as well never DATA even with buffs, any and everything that can't 4 turn burst is always pathetic and shit.

Since when i say dark can’t be decently fast ?, i just said dark is not fast enough FOR SHINGEN, get your fact right.

nut

04-01-2019, 07:46 PM

Source?I still don't even understand what you're trying to say. Can you calm down, and actually type a proper sentence with proper context and grammar, please.

Look at jp wiki site: http://xn--hckqz0e9cygq471ahu9b.xn--wiki-4i9hs14f.com/index.php?%E3%82%A6%E3%82%A7%E3%83%9D%E3%83%B3%E3% 82%B9%E3%82%AD%E3%83%AB%E4%B8%80%E8%A6%A7#b64ed5f6
The null hammer is listed as maximum (極大) while the one you mention with slv 30 and 30% assault is listed as oversized (特大) and stated that "(oversized) is currently implemented only weapons that reach the final limit"
I can provide you a test with the null gun with the same skill but HP instead assault so things will be clearly, but I'm too lazy and you can just look at the comment section in the null hammer page.

Slashley

04-01-2019, 07:56 PM

MVP have 1-3 plat chest, leacher have 0-1 plat chest, which mean ppl able to get MVP have 4 time more chance to get a null and 4 time magna with the same time play and seed spent, which mean when they have 4 hime with tiara set you only have 1, and when they can use any null they want when you pray for RNG god to drop what you need, and the gap just keep wider and wider and you will never catch up to them. That’s how this game work.--That's not how it works as far as I can tell.

Everyone: ~2% chance of getting a Phantom weapon
Everyone: ~50% chance of getting a Magna
Vice MvP: ~10% chance of getting a Magna (basically worth absolutely nothing)
MvP: 100% Magna
Host: x% Magna (high, but pretty sure it's not every time) and 2x Fragments

So, all that you get from being a MvP is tripling your Magna income (50% -> 150%). But that's when you spend like 10x more effort into the raid, maybe even 20x. So why bother? Just hit the boss once and leave. Go to another Rag and hit it once and leave. Go to another Rag and just AAB (since the maximum raids you can be at the same time is 3). And oh look, you got the same amount of Magnas and 3x chances of Phantom weapons for effectively zero effort. The only argument that can be made is for Seed usage.

Manualing raids for MvP is a waste of your time, especially if some whale shows up and just annihilates the effort you put in (since Vice has effectively zero awards). Designing content which isn't meant to be soloed, then only give an extra reward to one person out of 10-20 is completely insane. It could be fine if all you needed was like... 100 Magnas, but you need 240 as a starting point. And this is before counting other Magna uses such as future Olympia raid hosting.

The whole system is a complete failure, really.

Unregistered

04-01-2019, 08:05 PM

That's not how it works as far as I can tell.

Everyone: ~2% chance of getting a Phantom weapon
Everyone: ~50% chance of getting a Magna
Vice MvP: ~10% chance of getting a Magna (basically worth absolutely nothing)
MvP: 100% Magna
Host: x% Magna (high, but pretty sure it's not every time) and 2x Fragments

So, all that you get from being a MvP is tripling your Magna income (50% -> 150%). But that's when you spend like 10x more effort into the raid, maybe even 20x. So why bother? Just hit the boss once and leave. Go to another Rag and hit it once and leave. Go to another Rag and just AAB (since the maximum raids you can be at the same time is 3). And oh look, you got the same amount of Magnas and 3x chances of Phantom weapons for effectively zero effort. The only argument that can be made is for Seed usage.

Manualing raids for MvP is a waste of your time, especially if some whale shows up and just annihilates the effort you put in (since Vice has effectively zero awards). Designing content which isn't meant to be soloed, then only give an extra reward to one person out of 10-20 is completely insane. It could be fine if all you needed was like... 100 Magnas, but you need 240 as a starting point. And this is before counting other Magna uses such as future Olympia raid hosting.

The whole system is a complete failure, really.

Wow i allways though the 2% null is for each plat chest. You get the infor from DMM wiki or any trustworthy source ?

Dejnov

04-01-2019, 08:06 PM

Source?I still don't even understand what you're trying to say. Can you calm down, and actually type a proper sentence with proper context and grammar, please.

I'm going from the English wiki for the Carnage skill. 10% base assault and +1% per skill level to level 20 or total 30% assault.

As I stated earlier, the reason this is a beautiful thing is that Dark is absolutely swimming in assault/defender items and has a ton of assault hammers THAT ARE ALL F2P!!

The number of bricks to get a Dark full 9 assault, 5(6) defender, 3 exceed phantom hammer (or non-phantom hammer all assault/defender) weapon grid: THREE!! (for Nepthys hammer only).

The number of bricks needed to get a phantom Light Lance grid: at least 12 possibly 15!! Even then half of your weapons are either assault/ascension or assault/exceed (which is limited past the first three) or happens to be weapons suitable for a phantom bow (assault/stinger) or phantom gun (defense UGH!!) grid instead.

LIGHT Lance Grid: Spiral Lance (Advent, assault/defender), Enshrined Lance Longinus (dragon eye, assault, rush), Star Lance (Tishtrya, assault, ascension, exceed), and Holy Winged Lance (Michael, assault/defender) plus F2P Proud Axe (Union Event, assault/exceed) and/or Hime weapons.

Talk about space whaling.

Dark is a heck of a lot cheaper to get up and running. For that flexibility you just can't point to borken Himes like a Light player can... but you get a borken weapon grid!!

Dejnov.

kyc992

04-01-2019, 08:33 PM

Since when i say dark can’t be decently fast ?, i just said dark is not fast enough FOR SHINGEN, get your fact right.

I don’t think dark is fast enough to keep up with shingen, the first rotation maybe but after that they are dead weight

Shingen can hold herself find in 4 turn burst cycle, but the problem is dark hime can’t hold themself, name me a dark hime that can consistantly generate 70-80 BG in 3 turn ?

I've named a few and how it would be possible for 4~5 turn bursts, also admitted that RNG can be an unstable factor. But guess what:

So you want osi combo 2 time in 3 turn with her pathetic 11% combo rate (36% with shingen DATA buff ) ?

P/s: anything can’t do 4t FB is pathetic because it’s a different from a raid MVP with tons of null weps and magna to a unfortunate 3rd place with just seed and useless mats

You then said anything that can't do 4t FB is pathetic and went on to talk about raids when the topic at first was about how to create a potential fast team for dark. And by your logic, 5turn FB is not decent but instead pathetic because it is not 4t.

You were the one who went from dark can't keep up with Shingen to anything that can't do 4t FB is pathetic. Like these facts A.K.A your very own quotes?

Argo

04-01-2019, 08:33 PM

Dejnov

04-01-2019, 08:41 PM

I-I'm sorry my questions sparked such a heated debate...I'm just a filthy casual trying to get a little bit better. I didn't realize that not going hardcore in every event since I joined and sticking to a small union for so long had screwed me as hard as it sounds like it did.

But thanks very much to everyone going and digging up info and running calcs, I certainly didn't expect you do go this far.

I can only (feasibly) get bricks from the Tower events, right? And since the rewards from the very first one went to summon tickets, and the second one is 500 medals short of the top prize, I'm a couple bricks behind already. That coupled with all of the weapons (and event materials to FLB stuff) I've missed out on makes it sound like it'll take years to catch up. And who knows when Nutaku will shut the game down...
I've made so much progress the past couple weeks with all the advice I've gotten, but now it's feeling like I might be in over my head.

That's totally not true and you're doing just fine. New SSR weapons for all elements are dropped every month and they are better than the ones that came out last year. You can (and will) catch up or be just slightly behind.

The only real take away from all of these discussions is

a) there are different ways to get to META and listening to all ideas is helpful
b) you should be patient with the truly rare material (tower points) and orichalcon that takes time to replace, but is still not insourmountable
c) you don't actually have to have a top hime, grid, eidolon in every element. The game runs just fine specializing in one element and having elemental advantage some of the time

Dejnov.

Unregistered

04-01-2019, 08:43 PM

I'm going from the English wiki for the Carnage skill. 10% base assault and +1% per skill level to level 20 or total 30% assault.

As I stated earlier, the reason this is a beautiful thing is that Dark is absolutely swimming in assault/defender items and has a ton of assault hammers THAT ARE ALL F2P!!

The number of bricks to get a Dark full 9 assault, 5(6) defender, 3 exceed phantom hammer (or non-phantom hammer all assault/defender) weapon grid: THREE!! (for Nepthys hammer only).

The number of bricks needed to get a phantom Light Lance grid: at least 12 possibly 15!! Even then half of your weapons are either assault/ascension or assault/exceed (which is limited past the first three) or happens to be weapons suitable for a phantom bow (assault/stinger) or phantom gun (defense UGH!!) grid instead.

LIGHT Lance Grid: Spiral Lance (Advent, assault/defender), Enshrined Lance Longinus (dragon eye, assault, rush), Star Lance (Tishtrya, assault, ascension, exceed), and Holy Winged Lance (Michael, assault/defender) plus F2P Proud Axe (Union Event, assault/exceed) and/or Hime weapons.

Talk about space whaling.

Dark is a heck of a lot cheaper to get up and running. For that flexibility you just can't point to borken Himes like a Light player can... but you get a borken weapon grid!!

Dejnov.

When you go no null, like i said earlier too many assault compare to raw stat, and if he want to run null hammer, i don’t think you remember the fact that he already miss 2 UE hammer at this point so he only have 2 left, an SSR raid hammer with assault L will come in 2 month and ofc not FLBable. 1 Nepthys hammer, so what is the last one ?, SR filler ?. So he end up with 182% assault and 72% defender and only 2 exeed if you run that null hammer, decent but not perfect

Argo

04-01-2019, 09:27 PM

That's totally not true and you're doing just fine. New SSR weapons for all elements are dropped every month and they are better than the ones that came out last year. You can (and will) catch up or be just slightly behind.

The only real take away from all of these discussions is

a) there are different ways to get to META and listening to all ideas is helpful
b) you should be patient with the truly rare material (tower points) and orichalcon that takes time to replace, but is still not insourmountable
c) you don't actually have to have a top hime, grid, eidolon in every element. The game runs just fine specializing in one element and having elemental advantage some of the time

Dejnov.

Alright, I'll still keep focusing on my Light team then. I kind of want to use M.Tix for my other elements to bring them up a level, but if this Lugh is as broken as she sounds maybe they'll stay on the backburner. I still plan to blow all of my jewels trying for the new Amon and Diabolos just because I want them, but after that I'll probably save my jewels up to see if I can get a free Lugh or some bikini babes in the next summer event.

As for Orichalcon, I had just managed to get the second piece yesterday and FLB'd that Fire weapon since it's the only one I had that was ready. I'm not sure I'll be able to get 3 or 4 every two weeks, but if I'm able to get 2 pieces on that schedule that should be alright, yes?
And from the shop I should consider getting two more copies of of Tepes Lance, right? Anything else I should consider, or should the rest go towards FLB-ing whatever I can?

And speaking of shops, am I right in assuming that my Eidolon Orbs should be saved up towards getting more breaks for my God Kaiser Dragoon? I've summoned two of her so she's already 1-star, but it'll take a while to buy more from the shop. Until a while ago I was using my orbs to get a copy of ones I don't have to see their scenes, but so far they've all been pretty bad so I started saving up. I'm around 2800 orbs now.

And what about the Accessory shop? It only has rings, and rings seem to be the worst kind. Are they worth leveling at all, or are they just exp fodder? Does the shop ever get better stuff added that would be worth saving for?

Dejnov

04-01-2019, 10:53 PM

Alright, I'll still keep focusing on my Light team then. I kind of want to use M.Tix for my other elements to bring them up a level, but if this Lugh is as broken as she sounds maybe they'll stay on the backburner. I still plan to blow all of my jewels trying for the new Amon and Diabolos just because I want them, but after that I'll probably save my jewels up to see if I can get a free Lugh or some bikini babes in the next summer event.

As for Orichalcon, I had just managed to get the second piece yesterday and FLB'd that Fire weapon since it's the only one I had that was ready. I'm not sure I'll be able to get 3 or 4 every two weeks, but if I'm able to get 2 pieces on that schedule that should be alright, yes?
And from the shop I should consider getting two more copies of of Tepes Lance, right? Anything else I should consider, or should the rest go towards FLB-ing whatever I can?

And speaking of shops, am I right in assuming that my Eidolon Orbs should be saved up towards getting more breaks for my God Kaiser Dragoon? I've summoned two of her so she's already 1-star, but it'll take a while to buy more from the shop. Until a while ago I was using my orbs to get a copy of ones I don't have to see their scenes, but so far they've all been pretty bad so I started saving up. I'm around 2800 orbs now.

And what about the Accessory shop? It only has rings, and rings seem to be the worst kind. Are they worth leveling at all, or are they just exp fodder? Does the shop ever get better stuff added that would be worth saving for?

It's best to wait and plan for your next MTix purchase when it comes around. You never know what you'll get from Gacha and what your taste will lean to. Gaining 2 pieces (or GO to 10) will easily be enough to upgrade one element (possibly two) at a time as not all weapons that can be FLBed for each element need to be FLBed. They just aren't great in large numbers. Also every other Advent or Raid is dropping a weapon that can be FLBed. These should also be a big part of your grid. The Advent after Fluerety gives you an Defender/Assault weapon for your water grid. Getting that and FLBing that is important as it saves your Orichalcon for other FLB upgrades.

The Kaiser Dragoons are the best buy in the shop and you want to plan on buying all six (slowly of course). Other than that I'd look at Tiamat if you don't have her. She's absolutely a ton of points (2700 total) and gives you a very nice Barrier which is useable by all teams in all situations.

After that you might look to finishing some key Eidolons, but you don't really have to. They're all early game (first year or so) Eidolons that aren't META anymore. Unless you need them to complete a full six same element Eidolons to maximize a 100% Eidolon, they're not needed. In fact, you don't have to stay mono-element as even the 100% Eidolons are a base 80% element attack with just your main being the right element.

The accessory shop sucks. There is nothing but the rings. I'd buy them anyways; if you get a really good affix on them you can save it for that healer member in your group (as a set of rings reduces attacks against you), but if they're just basic use them for fodder.

Always always save your Tower tokens and use them for limit breaking the best weapons you have. This will usually be Hime weapons (which have the highest potential attack) and are assault/defender.

Think Michael's spear, Tishtrya's spear, and Nepthys' Hammer. All decent to great weapons that are valuable since they make strong additions to a potential phantom grid.

Dejnov.

Quarters

04-01-2019, 11:47 PM

So, when I bought the Miracle Ticket and got Sol, I bought too many Star Coins (9800 instead of 5000) so I had a fair amount left over. I figured I'd wait until Amon/Diabolos came out and use my coins to try and pull them. However, I'm really bad with impulse control, and as soon as I saw the garunteed SSR gacha was back up for April, I spent 3000 on it. I received an R water I didn't have before and got a second copy of Set's weapon with a Dragon Eye to go with it. That brought me up to 3 eyes, so now I can awaken someone.

I've already awakened a few Hime in the past, though only one is fully broken:
Gaia (Awakened) lv80
Hades (Awakened) lv60
Uriel (Awakened) lv69
Tyr (Awakened) lv68
Acala (Awakened) lv54

Now, I have a few options, all of whom are fully broken:
Susanoo lv80
Thor lv80
Michael lv76
Ea lv66
Sol lv1

I was thinking of Thor, Michael, or Sol...Or I can try to wait until the next Mtix where I'll grab either Titania or Cu Chulainn (who I'm told will get an Awaken before long)

Thoughts?

Argo

04-01-2019, 11:56 PM

It's best to wait and plan for your next MTix purchase when it comes around. You never know what you'll get from Gacha and what your taste will lean to. Gaining 2 pieces (or GO to 10) will easily be enough to upgrade one element (possibly two) at a time as not all weapons that can be FLBed for each element need to be FLBed. They just aren't great in large numbers. Also every other Advent or Raid is dropping a weapon that can be FLBed. These should also be a big part of your grid. The Advent after Fluerety gives you an Defender/Assault weapon for your water grid. Getting that and FLBing that is important as it saves your Orichalcon for other FLB upgrades.

The Kaiser Dragoons are the best buy in the shop and you want to plan on buying all six (slowly of course). Other than that I'd look at Tiamat if you don't have her. She's absolutely a ton of points (2700 total) and gives you a very nice Barrier which is useable by all teams in all situations.

After that you might look to finishing some key Eidolons, but you don't really have to. They're all early game (first year or so) Eidolons that aren't META anymore. Unless you need them to complete a full six same element Eidolons to maximize a 100% Eidolon, they're not needed. In fact, you don't have to stay mono-element as even the 100% Eidolons are a base 80% element attack with just your main being the right element.

The accessory shop sucks. There is nothing but the rings. I'd buy them anyways; if you get a really good affix on them you can save it for that healer member in your group (as a set of rings reduces attacks against you), but if they're just basic use them for fodder.

Always always save your Tower tokens and use them for limit breaking the best weapons you have. This will usually be Hime weapons (which have the highest potential attack) and are assault/defender.

Think Michael's spear, Tishtrya's spear, and Nepthys' Hammer. All decent to great weapons that are valuable since they make strong additions to a potential phantom grid.

Dejnov.

All right, sounds good. My Waters are probably my fourth-best team, but I'll certainly try to max out that weapon.

I do have a maxed Tiamat, actually. She's been super helpful, that barrier is awesome and even better if I use Hecaton the turn before. So I guess I'll just keep saving for more God Kaisers then, unless Amphisbaena is worth filling out since I only got a couple copies in her event.

I'll definitely prioritize Michael's spear, and Tish too if she's the next best. Don't have Nepthys, but I think I get the idea now.

Slashley

04-02-2019, 06:00 AM

Wow i allways though the 2% null is for each plat chest. You get the infor from DMM wiki or any trustworthy source ?My limited experience combined with the limited experience of some other Nutaku players. Those numbers are rough, I haven't kept a tally or anything.

And remember that RNG is going to RNG. For most people who don't MvP, the amount of Phantom weapons tends to be around the same amount as the SSR Hime they've unlocked slots for. Personally, I've unlocked 4+4 and I have 9 Phantom drops. Meanwhile, there's one person with like 3+3 unlocks... and one Phantom drop... yikes.

Unregistered

04-02-2019, 06:09 AM

And remember that RNG is going to RNG. For most people who don't MvP, the amount of Phantom weapons tends to be around the same amount as the SSR Hime they've unlocked slots for.

Wait, you have to MVP to have trigger the 2% chance? And does being the 'discoverer' count?

Slashley

04-02-2019, 06:32 AM

Wait, you have to MVP to have trigger the 2% chance? And does being the 'discoverer' count?No, as I said previously, if you MvP, then you effectively triple your Magna droprate. That means that if you literally MvP EVERY time, you'll have 3x SSR Hime unlocked per each Phantom weapon.

As far as I can tell, the Phantom weapon droprate is either 2% for all, or maybe 0.2% per weapon (so technically you can get all nine weapons in a single raid - unknown). Whether you host, MvP or Vice has nothing to do with the Phantom droprate. As far as I can tell, anyway.

nut

04-02-2019, 06:50 AM

My limited experience combined with the limited experience of some other Nutaku players. Those numbers are rough, I haven't kept a tally or anything.

And remember that RNG is going to RNG. For most people who don't MvP, the amount of Phantom weapons tends to be around the same amount as the SSR Hime they've unlocked slots for. Personally, I've unlocked 4+4 and I have 9 Phantom drops. Meanwhile, there's one person with like 3+3 unlocks... and one Phantom drop... yikes.

That ratio seem to be close, I unlocked 8+5 and have 16 phantom drops
Also Bear make a post about rag drop table, and to my experience it seem to be the most reasonable one.

Regarding Null drop rate, base off feedbacks plus my own experience, we kinda deduced that the drop table looks something like this:
There are 3 types of chest: Magna-only chest, Magna/LowChanceWeapon chest, and a rare Weapon-only chest.
Host = 1 Magna chest + 0~1 Magna chest
MVP = 1 Magna/Weapon chest + 0~1 Magna/Weapon chest
Vice = 0~1 Magna chest
All participants = 0~1 Magna chest + 0~1 (Rare) Weapon chest

This means the following things:
- The max number of magna you can get in 1 raid is 5, by being Host + MVP
- The max number of null you can get in 1 raid is 3, by being MVP
- The 'best' scenario would be 3 magna + 3 weapons, at an astronomic chance.
- Hosting only gives you more chances at magna, not weapon.
- MVP gets 2 extra shots at weapon drop.
- The drops you can get as Vice ranges from 2 magna + 1 weapon to absolutely nothing.
- The max number of magna you can get as leech is 1. If you see 2 chest drops, congratulations you got yourself a weapon.

Bear

04-02-2019, 06:57 AM

Null weapon

Null weapon

snip & snip

Okay... there are quite a number of details that I wanna nitpick on but lemme first help you with what you maybe desperate to know: The Lv90 Raids' drop table.

This is base off what I've gathered and with help from both the English discord community for taco side, the Chinese player community and from twitterfeeds by Japanese players for DMM side. Forget the DMM wiki chart. I've already seen too many rare but legit cases that don't fully match the drop table described by the wiki. Anyway here goes:

First you need to know that there are 3 types of chests:
- Chest that only drops Magna
- Chest that drops both Magna and Weapon (Rare)
- a Rare Chest that drops only Weapon

Drop distrubution, ignoring the other not important drops:

All Partiticipants - 0~1 Magna chest + 0~1 Rare Weapon Chest
Host - 1 Magna chest + 0~1 Magna chest
MVP - 1 Magna/Weapon chest + 0~1 Magna/Weapon chest
Vice - 0~1 Magna chest

This means the following things:
- The max number of magna you can get in 1 raid is 5, by being Host + MVP
- The max number of null you can get in 1 raid is 3, by being MVP (w/o the need of being the host)
- The theoratical 'best case' scenario would be 3 magna + 3 weapons, at an astronomic chance.
- Hosting only gives you more chances at magna, not weapon.
- MVP gets 2 extra shots at weapon drop.
- The drops you can get as Vice ranges from 2 magna + 1 weapon to absolutely nothing.
- The max number of magna you can get as leech is 1. If you see 2 chest drops, congratulations you got yourself a weapon.

The drop %. You can just more or less forget about trying to figure out an accurate number given the way drops are distributed. We can't even figure out the question of whether the chance of Magna/Weapon chest dropping a weapon is the same as the Rare Weapon chest itself dropping. Just keep grinding and hope for the best, and 1 year from now (if taco is still alive that is) you will be able to buy the weapons (of your choice) off the new 'Raid Medal' shop.

..... Annnd ninja'd by nut

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/553218176838533150.png?v=1

nut

04-02-2019, 07:10 AM

Okay... there are quite a number of details that I wanna nitpick on but lemme first help you with what you maybe desperate to know: The Lv90 Raids' drop table.

This is base off what I've gathered and with help from both the English discord community for taco side, the Chinese player community and from twitterfeeds by Japanese players for DMM side. Forget the DMM wiki chart. I've already seen too many rare but legit cases that don't fully match the drop table described by the wiki. Anyway here goes:

First you need to know that there are 3 types of chests:
- Chest that only drops Magna
- Chest that drops both Magna and Weapon (Rare)
- a Rare Chest that drops only Weapon

Drop distrubution, ignoring the other not important drops:

All Partiticipants - 0~1 Magna chest + 0~1 Rare Weapon Chest
Host - 1 Magna chest + 0~1 Magna chest
MVP - 1 Magna/Weapon chest + 0~1 Magna/Weapon chest
Vice - 0~1 Magna chest

This means the following things:
- The max number of magna you can get in 1 raid is 5, by being Host + MVP
- The max number of null you can get in 1 raid is 3, by being MVP (w/o the need of being the host)
- The theoratical 'best case' scenario would be 3 magna + 3 weapons, at an astronomic chance.
- Hosting only gives you more chances at magna, not weapon.
- MVP gets 2 extra shots at weapon drop.
- The drops you can get as Vice ranges from 2 magna + 1 weapon to absolutely nothing.
- The max number of magna you can get as leech is 1. If you see 2 chest drops, congratulations you got yourself a weapon.

The drop %. You can just more or less forget about trying to figure out an accurate number given the way drops are distributed. We can't even figure out the question of whether the chance of Magna/Weapon chest dropping a weapon is the same as the Rare Weapon chest itself dropping. Just keep grinding and hope for the best, and 1 year from now (if taco is still alive that is) you will be able to buy the weapons (of your choice) off the new 'Raid Medal' shop.

..... Annnd ninja'd by nut

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/553218176838533150.png?v=1

Ahihi, I happen to see your post in discord some days ago.
12326
All of my drop fall into it but, I have seen some screenshot of 2 phantom, but is there any of 3 phantom drop?

Slashley

04-02-2019, 07:31 AM

--
Drop distrubution, ignoring the other not important drops:

All Partiticipants - 0~1 Magna chest + 0~1 Rare Weapon Chest
Host - 1 Magna chest + 0~1 Magna chest
MVP - 1 Magna/Weapon chest + 0~1 Magna/Weapon chest
Vice - 0~1 Magna chest
--The problem with this is, it doesn't even try to give SOME kind of referendum to what 0~1 means. For example, looking at this, it looks like Vice could be worth your time, which it is not. It is far more useful to give a rough idea on the droprates, such as ~10% on Vice and ~50% for all.

The interesting thing here is that MvP supposedly gets a second chance at Phantom weapons, but the rate seems really low.

Bear

04-02-2019, 08:58 AM

The problem with this is, it doesn't even try to give SOME kind of referendum to what 0~1 means. For example, looking at this, it looks like Vice could be worth your time, which it is not. It is far more useful to give a rough idea on the droprates, such as ~10% on Vice and ~50% for all.

The interesting thing here is that MvP supposedly gets a second chance at Phantom weapons, but the rate seems really low.

> Vice worthing your time
No, it isn't. I don't know why you'd think that list conveys that, cuz 0~1 pretty much means you have a significant chance to get absolutely nothing. You don't even need a hard number to figure that out. If you don't have what it takes to be MVP, there is zero incentive to care about vice at all. It's all or nothing. More so if you care only about the weapon drop.

> Weapon drop rate seems really low
I think I've already listed that the occasion of weapon dropping at all, be it from the magna/weapon chest or from the rare weapon chest itself, is rare. I haven't been getting any null drops for the past month and a half myself, if this makes you feel any better.

Ahihi, I happen to see your post in discord some days ago.
12326
All of my drop fall into it but, I have seen some screenshot of 2 phantom, but is there any of 3 phantom drop?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DfIsL3sUcAA4qkn.jpg:large

^ Not my screenshot. I know my place on the pyramid of luck.
^ Also, according to the tweet, that's from non-host MVP

Dejnov

04-02-2019, 09:00 AM

Slashley

04-02-2019, 09:25 AM

> Vice worthing your time
No, it isn't. I don't know why you'd think that list conveys that, cuz 0~1 pretty much means you have a significant chance to get absolutely nothing. You don't even need a hard number to figure that out. If you don't have what it takes to be MVP, there is zero incentive to care about vice at all. It's all or nothing. More so if you care only about the weapon drop.0~1 means anything between 0.00001% and 99.99999%. So no, it doesn't convey a "significant chance to get absolutely nothing." And that's exactly why harder numbers are more useful - while 10% for Vice might not be correct (and 0~1 is), it gives you far more of an idea what Vice means.

Like, how high is the chance to get a second Phantom if you MvP? Is it 1%? Is it 2%, doubling your chances? Is it 4%, which would mean tripling your chances and thus keeping the SSR Hime:Phantom weapon ratio the same? Unfortunately, insufficient data for a meaningful answer.

Cobblemaniac

04-02-2019, 09:35 AM

0~1 means anything between 0.00001% and 99.99999%. So no, it doesn't convey a "significant chance to get absolutely nothing." And that's exactly why harder numbers are more useful - while 10% for Vice might not be correct (and 0~1 is), it gives you far more of an idea what Vice means.

Like, how high is the chance to get a second Phantom if you MvP? Is it 1%? Is it 2%, doubling your chances? Is it 4%, which would mean tripling your chances and thus keeping the SSR Hime:Phantom weapon ratio the same? Unfortunately, insufficient data for a meaningful answer.

Insufficient data is in part due to the fact that nobody really bothers to check for the percentages. DMM has long since established that:

1. MVP is king.
2. vMVP rewards suck.
3. Just keep throwing seeds at rags to get magnas and nulls.

... and nothing more.

Cause anything past that is frankly too much effort. This is the best we have to work with unless you collect the numbers yourself. I wouldn't bother personally.

Bear

04-02-2019, 10:20 AM

0~1 means anything between 0.00001% and 99.99999%. So no, it doesn't convey a "significant chance to get absolutely nothing." And that's exactly why harder numbers are more useful - while 10% for Vice might not be correct (and 0~1 is), it gives you far more of an idea what Vice means.

No, it changes nothing. I'm not making these lists for people who don't use their brain to think whether they are experience these extremes. Nor am going to put down baseless 'hard' numbers we have no way of figuring out even if we bruteforce it by logging every single battle and pretend that number is the rate of each category I described. Frankly, it changes nothing. I already pointed out the general consensus of a very high majority of the players: Vice reward is shit. Illogically and irritably horse shit. You lose the MVP race, to the game's eyes you're no different than a leech, and you get treated almost the same as one. That's it. That's the only meaningful answer you'll ever get from this horrid drop system. The only thing left is for you yourself to determine whether you have what it takes and/or willing to put yourself through this grind. There is no right answer.

Slashley

04-02-2019, 10:45 AM

Yes, but:
-- I already pointed out the general consensus of a very high majority of the players: Vice reward is shit. Illogically and irritably horse shit. You lose the MVP race, to the game's eyes you're no different than a leech, and you get treated almost the same as one. That's it.--This is the part which is NOT obvious from the way you represented the drops.

With information like that, a newer player may think that it's a great idea to aim for Vice, until they experience the horrible reality first hand. I don't think that's a good thing. In other words, this:
--
Drop distrubution, ignoring the other not important drops:

All Partiticipants - 0~1 Magna chest + 0~1 Rare Weapon Chest
Host - 1 Magna chest + 0~1 Magna chest
MVP - 1 Magna/Weapon chest + 0~1 Magna/Weapon chest
Vice - fucking nothing
--Would be okay. Not something I'd use myself as it gives no description as to how likely the three different 0~1 that are left are, but it's okay.

That's the biggest beef I have with representing the drops like that. It NEEDS to show that Vice is effectively worthless.

Keyen

04-02-2019, 11:31 AM

Bear

04-02-2019, 12:17 PM

I agree. Even if you don't want to put hard number, saying "very low chance" "average chance" "high chance" at least give an indication. The way you present it, Vice MVP double your magna income compared to simply hit once and leave to do another.

If you say "very low chance of magna" for vice mvp and "average chance of magna" for all participants, it doesn't convey this false impression, and a reader readily understand that vice mvp is really bad.

>The way you present it, Vice MVP double your magna income compared to simply hit once and leave to do another.

^ That's the thing. We do not know. Afaik we can't tell how much less of a chance you get a magna drop if you don't at least vice. There is also the fact that we cannot ignore those uncommon instances where you do get 2 magna drops. For some people, such as those who aiming for MVP but failed, isn't such a bad thing. For others, not so much. Especially triggering when they rolled the bad dice of nothing. Throwing in random baseless number gives people false impression and expectation. I'm not gonna say "Oh it feels like 30% blah blah" and end up some obsessive other person say he feel otherwise. I don't care how lazy you are and how much you don't wanna find out first hand yourself. That's bad practice. I also find it funny that you bunch completely ignored the fact that I did put a note on the actual 'rare aka low chance' drops and those are the possible weapon. Certainly that should be enough cue that the magna chests, while imo too much work for a vice's worth, aren't really that terrible of a chance? Besides, if you have the power to actually vice, are you not gonna aim for MVP to begin with? Are you just gonna not fight the raid? Somebody's gotta kill the raid you know. You're still gonna be killing the raid. Or you could just leech and hope for the best. Maybe others will clean up after you. Maybe the raid will fail. The grind goes on. Unlike stats, you can't change anything. You're just wasting your time obsessing over a myth that changes nothing like those same myth in gachas.

Slashley

04-02-2019, 01:40 PM

Ultimate, it boils down to the question of:
"Which is better, the clock which has stopped, or the clock which is one minute offset from real time?"

A computer will pick the clock which has stopped, since at least it's correct twice a day.
Others may pick the working clock which is wrong, but is close enough. Sure it will never be CORRECT, but it still has a function to fulfill.

Quarters

04-02-2019, 03:04 PM

Depends on what element you plan on being your main. I believe you said Thunder. If that's true, then Thor. Are you going to run Light as your main, if so then either Michael or Sol. Both are solid.

Dejnov.

Actually, Wind is my Main with Water being Secondary. The reason I try to keep my Fire and Thunder teams half decent is to farm materials for Wind and Water. As for Light and Dark, those just kinda happen...

Incomming mass of screen shots:
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This is my primary team, where most of my resources go. I've already swapped out the lv85 SRs for as-of-yet unleveled SSRs, but that's going to be rectified shortly.

Harem Battle Club is telling me only 5 attachments per post, so I'll leave it there, but I have images of my other teams if necessary.

PS, what skill level was I supposed to get R and SR grails to for effecient skill leveling of SSR weapons? I think R was 3, but I can't remember for sure.
Edit: Hm, seems that Water one is still there despite no attach tags in the text, oh well.

kyc992

04-02-2019, 03:41 PM

Incomming mass of screen shots:
12332123331233412335

A quick note, Pazuzu is not very strong. You will benefit more running a 40/45% eidolon, and having off-element eidolons that can boost your "overall attack" by more than 10%.
Also alone with no other wind eidolons, she starts at 20% only.

Math can be done by the following to compare, assuming assault is at 100% equation is ATK X Assault X Ele ATK
Your current attack:
9604 x (1+1.00) x (1+0.5)=28,812

Switch to 40% eidolon but with 10% more overall attack grid:
10564.4 x (1+1.00) x (1+0.4)=29580.32

The difference would be even more obvious if your overall attack increases by more than 10%.

PS, what skill level was I supposed to get R and SR grails to for effecient skill leveling of SSR weapons? I think R was 3, but I can't remember for sure.
Edit: Hm, seems that Water one is still there despite no attach tags in the text, oh well.

R grails at SL3, so you spend 1 grail(2R worth) and 2Rs to gain 6R worth grail, net gain of 2R.
SR grails at SL5, so you spend 1 grail(5R worth) and 10Rs to gain 25R worth grail, net gain of 15R.

But leave them at level 1, and level accordingly when you are going to use it. For example your SSR is currently SL10. You need 20Rs, so a SL4 SR grail would do the job. Using an SL5 Grail would be overkill. Yes you still save on 5R total but you could've saved 4 more Rs(9 total) for the same result.

Dejnov

04-02-2019, 03:41 PM

Actually, Wind is my Main with Water being Secondary. The reason I try to keep my Fire and Thunder teams half decent is to farm materials for Wind and Water. As for Light and Dark, those just kinda happen...

Incomming mass of screen shots:
12332123331233412335
This is my primary team, where most of my resources go. I've already swapped out the lv85 SRs for as-of-yet unleveled SSRs, but that's going to be rectified shortly.

Harem Battle Club is telling me only 5 attachments per post, so I'll leave it there, but I have images of my other teams if necessary.

PS, what skill level was I supposed to get R and SR grails to for effecient skill leveling of SSR weapons? I think R was 3, but I can't remember for sure.
Edit: Hm, seems that Water one is still there despite no attach tags in the text, oh well.

So I don't think that using Pazuzu (50% wind element) as your main over Amaltheia (40% wind element) is worth it since you're stacking your Eidolon grid with low level non maxed star Eidolons. You'll get better bang for your buck by switching to Amaltheia as your main and picking your highest total power eidolons from all elements in your sub slots. All eidolons attack and hit points is added directly to each of your Himes in your main pool. If you make that switch you should be closer to 50000 base attack.

Prioritize raising Gaia's, Cybele's and Hastur's weapons first. They are dual assault/defender and will give you the biggest bang for buck. They are also the one's I'd brick first, when you get the chance to brick.

I'd also suggest working for Hercules and her axe. Are you currently running Sniper Shot? That should get you to -40% ATK, -40% DEF. You have a healer in Set so you don't need to run a defensive soul like Joan.

If you don't have Herc yet, run D'Art with BP or Mordred with Sniper Shot.

After that look for any weapons with assault++ or pride++ and raise them.

A couple of the weapons you have give rush, elaborate, and barrage combined with assault+. Those don't have a real advantage over SR weapons as those abilities aren't adding base assault. Don't raise them first (or switch back to assault+ SRs) for those.

Try this first and see how you're doing.

Dejnov.

kyc992

04-02-2019, 04:08 PM

Adding onto Dejnov's advice about weapons

Ones you can keep for now:
Potnia Cross: Assault ++ so 3% more than an SR, lower attack than a MLB SR but gives better result with higher total attack rating
God Destroyer Gaia Force: Assault ++ so 3% more than an SR, lower attack than a MLB SR but gives better result with higher total attack rating

Winged Rifle Daedalus: Pride++ works like Assault but better as the fight goes on and you lose hp

Tornado Lance Ravager: Same SL % as SR but has higher attack rating and a secondary skill which is better than nothing
Harvest Flute Vita Cornu: Same SL % as SR but has higher attack rating and a secondary skill which is better than nothing

Ones you want to swap out even for an SR assault:
Kachou's Greatsword: No assault
Was-Scepter: No assault, and double attack secondary skill doesn't make it better

Debatable/Not sure, but probably want to be swapped out too:
Gem Flute Byakhee: 3% lower assault than SR, but has Defender++ so can be decent for now if you need the hp. But don't level it unless you really need the HP, and no higher than SL10 which gives you 5% assault and 11% hp.
5% assault= SL4 SR(assault+) and lower than SL1 SSR(assault++) which is 6.5%
God Shooter Aceto Guardian: Opposite of Pride except it gets worse as time goes on, and I'm not sure but it seems like it does not come with a hidden assault of it's own?

Unregistered

04-02-2019, 04:48 PM

It's kinda funny how ppl are making such a big deal out of vMVP being worthless... when in my experience thus far, MVP have also been pretty bad. I've gotten quite a decent number of MVPs myself, just as an old vet with a decent grid and mtix himes who can carry if given the chance (but always lose to a whale), and it never fails, every single time it happens, it's a completely disappointment. To put some numbers into perspective, I've unlocked 8 full himes (finished both teams) with a couple to spare, have 6 weapons, and zero of it have came from my MVPs. The only thing MVP does seems to be the guaranteed Magna, which, if you're after, is way better if you just host.

Truth is, it's just a resource game, be it in seeds or in regalias.

Here's the really crazy part though... I still try, 'cuz it's fun (except when the server lags too badly). I know, people actually enjoying the game rather than just leeching for free stuff, just to leech for more stuff later... true insanity.

Quarters

04-02-2019, 05:09 PM

So I don't think that using Pazuzu (50% wind element) as your main over Amaltheia (40% wind element) is worth it since you're stacking your Eidolon grid with low level non maxed star Eidolons. You'll get better bang for your buck by switching to Amaltheia as your main and picking your highest total power eidolons from all elements in your sub slots. All eidolons attack and hit points is added directly to each of your Himes in your main pool. If you make that switch you should be closer to 50000 base attack.

Prioritize raising Gaia's, Cybele's and Hastur's weapons first. They are dual assault/defender and will give you the biggest bang for buck. They are also the one's I'd brick first, when you get the chance to brick.

I'd also suggest working for Hercules and her axe. Are you currently running Sniper Shot? That should get you to -40% ATK, -40% DEF. You have a healer in Set so you don't need to run a defensive soul like Joan.

If you don't have Herc yet, run D'Art with BP or Mordred with Sniper Shot.

After that look for any weapons with assault++ or pride++ and raise them.

A couple of the weapons you have give rush, elaborate, and barrage combined with assault+. Those don't have a real advantage over SR weapons as those abilities aren't adding base assault. Don't raise them first (or switch back to assault+ SRs) for those.

Try this first and see how you're doing.

Dejnov.

Adding onto Dejnov's advice about weapons

Ones you can keep for now:
Potnia Cross: Assault ++ so 3% more than an SR, lower attack than a MLB SR but gives better result with higher total attack rating
God Destroyer Gaia Force: Assault ++ so 3% more than an SR, lower attack than a MLB SR but gives better result with higher total attack rating

Winged Rifle Daedalus: Pride++ works like Assault but better as the fight goes on and you lose hp

Tornado Lance Ravager: Same SL % as SR but has higher attack rating and a secondary skill which is better than nothing
Harvest Flute Vita Cornu: Same SL % as SR but has higher attack rating and a secondary skill which is better than nothing

Ones you want to swap out even for an SR assault:
Kachou's Greatsword: No assault
Was-Scepter: No assault, and double attack secondary skill doesn't make it better

Debatable/Not sure, but probably want to be swapped out too:
Gem Flute Byakhee: 3% lower assault than SR, but has Defender++ so can be decent for now if you need the hp. But don't level it unless you really need the HP, and no higher than SL10 which gives you 5% assault and 11% hp.
5% assault= SL4 SR(assault+) and lower than SL1 SSR(assault++) which is 6.5%
God Shooter Aceto Guardian: Opposite of Pride except it gets worse as time goes on, and I'm not sure but it seems like it does not come with a hidden assault of it's own?

I'm well aware that the team would be more powerful with off-element eidolons. I'll change them eventually, but at the moment I'm having fun with a pure Wind Team. It does make me excited to see how much of a power boost will come from doing so...
123371233812339

As for Souls, this is the one team where it will never change. I doubt Slashley remembers that they once recommended a change for me, but this is more of a personal thing than an optimization thing. I have an obsession with Jehanne D'Arc across various shows, games, manga, and real life.

As for the weapons...

Wind Sword Saint Gauche is currently lv125+99SL20
Tornado Lance Ravager is currently lv125+0SL15
Kachou's Greatsword is currently lv117+0SL7
Harvest Flute Vita Cornu is currently lv125+0SL12
Gem Flute Byakhee is currently lv100+20SL14
Winged Rifle Daedalus is currently lv100+1SL5
God Shooter Aceto Guardian is currently lv75+0SL8
God Destroyer Gaia Force is currently lv75+7SL8
Potnia Cross is currently lv50+0SL6
Was-Scepter is currently lv53+0SL2

I did a dumb and bricked Saint Gauche when I got a pair of bricks as bonus items from some gacha a while ago. Also, I just got my second Was-Scepter from April's guaranteed SSR Kamihime Gacha, which is why I can now awaken someone. Seriously, why do I keep pulling weapons that I got via Miracle Tickets AFTER I ticketed them?! Gaia, Azazel, Set, NikeU, Sol are all from Mtix, and I've pulled copies of Gaia, Set, and Nike since then.

12341

VeryVoodoo

04-02-2019, 05:16 PM

and it never fails, every single time it happens, it's a completely disappointment. To put some numbers into perspective, I've unlocked 8 full himes (finished both teams) with a couple to spare, have 6 weapons, and zero of it have came from my MVPs. The only thing MVP does seems to be the guaranteed Magna, which, if you're after, is way better if you just host.

That's just anecdotal evidence though. I mean I've finished unlocking both my elements too, but I'm sitting at 30 phantom drops for instance. While I do feel like mvp'ing has increased my chances a bit, there's no way I can definitively say that because ultimately RNG is gonna RNG and we're talking about something rare to begin with. So there's no way for me to tell for sure, the way you seem so sure when stating the opposite.

Because in the end, you need a large number of data points to draw any meaningful conclusions. And let's face it, our individual sample sizes are too small to be offering anecdotal evidence as proof of any one thing or another.

Unregistered

04-02-2019, 05:50 PM

^ I trush this person who consistently get MVP

Dejnov

04-02-2019, 06:39 PM

I'm well aware that the team would be more powerful with off-element eidolons. I'll change them eventually, but at the moment I'm having fun with a pure Wind Team. It does make me excited to see how much of a power boost will come from doing so...

As for Souls, this is the one team where it will never change. I doubt Slashley remembers that they once recommended a change for me, but this is more of a personal thing than an optimization thing. I have an obsession with Jehanne D'Arc across various shows, games, manga, and real life.

If you aren't willing to trade out Joan, you should rebuild your team around that. Right now it's overloaded with defense and healing abilities and not enough offense. Make sure Joan's using Saint Gauche for the elemental damage and give her Black Propaganda.

I'd use Cybele, Azazel, and Hastur in your main team and, if you plan on MTix, CuChulain or Titania. The other Himes you have are pure defense or healing. They're fine in reserve. Do you have any good Offensive Wind SRs? You might get mileage out of that.

Dejnov.

Quarters

04-02-2019, 07:28 PM

If you aren't willing to trade out Joan, you should rebuild your team around that. Right now it's overloaded with defense and healing abilities and not enough offense. Make sure Joan's using Saint Gauche for the elemental damage and give her Black Propaganda.

I'd use Cybele, Azazel, and Hastur in your main team and, if you plan on MTix, CuChulain or Titania. The other Himes you have are pure defense or healing. They're fine in reserve. Do you have any good Offensive Wind SRs? You might get mileage out of that.

Dejnov.

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Isis is there simply for leveling, I don't intend to keep her. I do plan on using the next MTik for either Titania or Cu Chulainn, depending on wether Cu can awaken or not by then. My first Mtik was Gaia, my second was Azazel, and my 3rd was Set. 4 and 5 were NikeU and Sol respectively.
Cybele was also relatively recent, but she was immediately added to the team to replace her SR.

As much as I would love more offensive punch (that's why I got Azazel in the first place), sometimes it seems this mass of Defense is all that keeps me alive. Andromalius from the Accessory quests is mean. Admittedly, I wish I could do Wind quests with either Wind or Fire, but I can't seem to handle the SSR quest. Joan is even running Sniper Shot at Slashley's advice, and my damage output shot up thanks to that. Will Black Propaganda make any difference?

kyc992

04-02-2019, 08:04 PM

If you have Cybele U in your main team, she already has a B frame 20% atk/def debuff which frees up your EX. Black Propaganda prolongs the time it takes for boss to fill up overdrive by one, effectively giving you an extra turn to prepare for defensive cooldowns for the nuke, or buff yourself for a full burst to kill before you get killed.

As for why it feels the mass of defense is keeping you alive, it's actually because you are at around 50~60% assault. Reach 100% assault and you should be getting around a 33% or so damage boost, which is amplified through debuffs. After you reach the 100% mark, if you are willing to do so getting yourself a 2-3k attack rating boost by changing up your eidolon grid should give you around a total of 40~50% increase in performance. That should allow you to shorten fights by roughly 1/3 of the time... killing mobs faster translates into less overall damage taken.

Rough example with random numbers...
2 turns to kill first mob
3 more turns to kill second mob
3 more turns to kill second mob
First mob attacks once, second mob four times, third mob seven times. Let's say they hit 1000 each, that's 12k damage.

By killing faster...
1 turn to kill first mob
2 turn to kill second mob
2 turn to kill third mob
First mob doesn't attack, second mob attacks twice, third mob attacks four times. 6000 damage.

You sorta just cut the overall damage taken by half through killing faster with the imaginary scenario above.

Quarters

04-02-2019, 08:20 PM

kyc992

04-02-2019, 08:28 PM

Quarters

04-02-2019, 09:06 PM

This is just my personal take:
Amaltheia: good if you need barrier or fighting against thunder element.
Icarus: good for a bit more damage as well as a TA buff
Sleipnir: ONLY for farming things easy battles you will AAB spam because of the drop rate up, but at LB0 the stats are too low and will hurt.

As for which one to bench, imo Gaia might be the better hime to keep in main, and Set swapped with Gaia if you need the affliction resists. Another reason why I think Gaia could be better is because she also has a damage cut, allowing you to rotate it with Joan for overdrive nukes. Afterall, heal is useful if you are alive, but useless when dead.

But why put my healer in reserve? If I keep Gaia alongside Hastur, and Azazel, the only slot left is Set. I assume you don't mean to swap Azazel for CybeleU but instead want both of them out there dealing the hurt. Hastur's ATKup and DEFdown are too helpful to bench. Joan's Orlean Call is very helpful, though it does compete with Gaia's attack+partyregen skill and Azazel's selfregen+energydrain. When paying attention and not autobattling, I can keep regen up at all times, is that enough to put Set in reserve?

Unregistered

04-02-2019, 09:19 PM

But why put my healer in reserve? If I keep Gaia alongside Hastur, and Azazel, the only slot left is Set. I assume you don't mean to swap Azazel for CybeleU but instead want both of them out there dealing the hurt. Hastur's ATKup and DEFdown are too helpful to bench. Joan's Orlean Call is very helpful, though it does compete with Gaia's attack+partyregen skill and Azazel's selfregen+energydrain. When paying attention and not autobattling, I can keep regen up at all times, is that enough to put Set in reserve?

Ppl these day value heal too much. The only healer is worth calling a healer in the game right now is SolAW or Andro with her soul weapon. 300HP/turn help nothing in the late game... oh wait you not in the late game yet, my bad, kek

Quarters

04-02-2019, 09:36 PM

Ppl these day value heal too much. The only healer is worth calling a healer in the game right now is SolAW or Andro with her soul weapon. 300HP/turn help nothing in the late game... oh wait you not in the late game yet, my bad, kek

Hm, so we were right and you're just a rude troll. Thanks for confirming that.

kyc992

04-02-2019, 09:42 PM

But why put my healer in reserve? If I keep Gaia alongside Hastur, and Azazel, the only slot left is Set. I assume you don't mean to swap Azazel for CybeleU but instead want both of them out there dealing the hurt. Hastur's ATKup and DEFdown are too helpful to bench. Joan's Orlean Call is very helpful, though it does compete with Gaia's attack+partyregen skill and Azazel's selfregen+energydrain. When paying attention and not autobattling, I can keep regen up at all times, is that enough to put Set in reserve?

Set's healing on average is 250 per turn(1500/6)
Gaia awakened has a heal in the form of a regen that has an average heal of 171per turn(400*3/7). But Gaia also has a damage cut, along with a Cover+Nullify skill which means overdrives do 0 damage. The damage cut and damage negation over the same period of time would "block" way more than the extra 79 heal per turn per hime from Set.

Only reason you'd prioritize Set over Gaia is for affliction resist AND affliction cleanse which would be dependent on content.

omelletetherice

04-02-2019, 09:48 PM

quick question. do fire rag supposed to be able to use its overdrive 2 times in a row?

Quarters

04-02-2019, 09:51 PM

Set's healing on average is 250 per turn(1500/6)
Gaia awakened has a heal in the form of a regen that has an average heal of 171per turn(400*3/7). But Gaia also has a damage cut, along with a Cover+Nullify skill which means overdrives do 0 damage. The damage cut and damage negation over the same period of time would "block" way more than the extra 79 heal per turn per hime from Set.

Only reason you'd prioritize Set over Gaia is for affliction resist AND affliction cleanse which would be dependent on content.

See this actually answers the question, and in a civilized manner, thank you. I'll try Set in the back, but as the first to come out over Isis. Joan, Gaia, and CybeleU up front with Hastur and Azazel in back.

ArchAngel

04-02-2019, 10:02 PM

Dejnov

04-02-2019, 10:12 PM

See this actually answers the question, and in a civilized manner, thank you. I'll try Set in the back, but as the first to come out over Isis. Joan, Gaia, and CybeleU up front with Hastur and Azazel in back.

First follow kyc992's advice and get your assault skills in your weapon grid up. That'll help a lot. If you're doing 50% more damage, you might not feel the need to rely on healing as much as you currently are. Gaia's got a self heal, Azazel has energy drain and cybele also has a self heal, not to mention Joan's regen. Set is overkill and takes the place of a strong striker. Gaia's damage cut and block are stronger party 'heals' than Set's though they do this through damage avoidance/mitigation (a priori not after damage done). The only one without any self heal is Hastur. For now you can live with potentially her going down.

Dejnov.

Quarters

04-02-2019, 10:31 PM

First follow kyc992's advice and get your assault skills in your weapon grid up. That'll help a lot. If you're doing 50% more damage, you might not feel the need to rely on healing as much as you currently are. Gaia's got a self heal, Azazel has energy drain and cybele also has a self heal, not to mention Joan's regen. Set is overkill and takes the place of a strong striker. Gaia's damage cut and block are stronger party 'heals' than Set's though they do this through damage avoidance/mitigation (a priori not after damage done). The only one without any self heal is Hastur. For now you can live with potentially her going down.

Dejnov.

It's usually either her or Azazel... But Gaia doesn't have self heal she has party regen

Shieun

04-02-2019, 10:33 PM

See this actually answers the question, and in a civilized manner, thank you. I'll try Set in the back, but as the first to come out over Isis. Joan, Gaia, and CybeleU up front with Hastur and Azazel in back.

I’d still try to get out of the reliance on heal as fast you can. This game is designed in a way that the boss will eventually outdamage your healing cooldown or the time limit is going to mess you up. Focus too much on healing and surviving, you’re not going to do enough damage.

And before people pointing out that there has been example of people soloing the catastrophe rags, I’ll also point out that it took them 50+ minutes to do so and theres only 60 minutes time limit. Also, its probably not something everyone can do.

Maria

04-02-2019, 11:14 PM

Y'all need Minerva to calm down your raging benis. OwO

kyc992

04-02-2019, 11:19 PM

It's usually either her or Azazel... But Gaia doesn't have self heal she has party regen

Gaia's party regen is from Awakening and lvl 75, but prior to that it's a self heal.

Also forgot to mention, the regen from Gaia does not stack with Joan's. The damage cut however does. You can effectively rotate regen for better turn coverage. Also you can effectively block overdrives by using Gaia's other Earth+ to negate it once, then use bothh Gaia's Genesis and Joan's Voice of the Gods for an 80% damage cut. With 40% AB attack down frames and 80% damage cut, you effectively cut boss's damage down to 12%. Not counting boss's regular attacks, the party regen you have should be more than enough for you to tackle bosses for a decent amount of time. But the regular attacks will still eventually wear you down, as explained by Shieun's "This game is designed in a way that the boss will eventually outdamage your healing cooldown or the time limit is going to mess you up".

Quarters

04-02-2019, 11:34 PM

Gaia's party regen is from Awakening and lvl 75, but prior to that it's a self heal.

Also forgot to mention, the regen from Gaia does not stack with Joan's. The damage cut however does. You can effectively rotate regen for better turn coverage. Also you can effectively block overdrives by using Gaia's other Earth+ to negate it once, then use bothh Gaia's Genesis and Joan's Voice of the Gods for an 80% damage cut. With 40% AB attack down frames and 80% damage cut, you effectively cut boss's damage down to 12%. Not counting boss's regular attacks, the party regen you have should be more than enough for you to tackle bosses for a decent amount of time. But the regular attacks will still eventually wear you down, as explained by Shieun's "This game is designed in a way that the boss will eventually outdamage your healing cooldown or the time limit is going to mess you up".

Yes...And we're talking about my party...which has Gaia Awakened Level 80...

As for the regen not stacking, that is also known. As mentioned above, if I'm paying attention instead of autobattling, I can keep regen on the party for (think it was) 9 turns, one turn without, and then another 6 turns. I might be off by a turn depending on if the cooldown starts the turn you use it.

But yes, I've swapped Set for CybeleU, once the maintenance is over, I'll check my SRs for assault. I'll then try them on a Thunder Ultimate and report back.

Unregistered

04-03-2019, 02:06 AM

Does raid ticket carry over to next raid?
I just over lost all my ticket...

kyc992

04-03-2019, 02:07 AM

Just got Fire Amon in 3 attempts, so I assume I'd want to run Amon, Ares, Dakki and Mars, replacing Dakki depending on content?
Also does anybody know how her passive works? Does it convert Dark ATK into Fire ATK only for her self or whole party, and does it work on Dark eidolon passives as well?

Quarters

04-03-2019, 02:09 AM

Does raid ticket carry over to next raid?
I just over lost all my ticket...

No, you have to use them all before the end of the rewards receipt time limit.

Unregistered

04-03-2019, 02:12 AM

kyc992

04-03-2019, 02:14 AM

Only for her

Ok, but does that affect eidolon passive too? Echidna for example. Will she herself gain 120% instead of 60%?

Unregistered

04-03-2019, 02:34 AM

Ok, but does that affect eidolon passive too? Echidna for example. Will she herself gain 120% instead of 60%?

Yep u right, it will be 120% for her

Argo

04-03-2019, 02:46 AM

kyc992

04-03-2019, 02:49 AM

Sigh...9k jewels and I only got the new Nergal and Aten, plus Oberon who I didn't have before. No Amon or Diabolos...so much for saving. Shouldn't have tried for the other Unleashed hime...
Oh well, with the event jewels and the scenes I still have to watch I should be able to manage another 10-roll later, at least.

I was lucky, Amon with 9k jewels. But my next 9k hoping for any other Fire SSR resulted in 3 Takemikazuchi... not sure if I should be happy about that....

Argo

04-03-2019, 03:08 AM

I was lucky, Amon with 9k jewels. But my next 9k hoping for any other Fire SSR resulted in 3 Takemikazuchi... not sure if I should be happy about that....

Well, that's a lot of SSRs at least, plus you got Amon. So congrats!

Unregistered

04-03-2019, 03:14 AM

Well, that's a lot of SSRs at least, plus you got Amon. So congrats!

When SSR Fire Eligos? :(

Slashley

04-03-2019, 04:52 AM

quick question. do fire rag supposed to be able to use its overdrive 2 times in a row?Rag? No. Ult? Yes, in Rage without BP.
Does raid ticket carry over to next raid?
I just over lost all my ticket...Tickets are lost when you enter the front page of the raid. Make sure you use them all up.

If you want to save up Tickets for future raids, you can do so by keeping the tickets in your Gifts.
Yep u right, it will be 120% for herIt's capped to 50% I believe, so no. Just one Echidna should be enough.

Argo

04-03-2019, 10:11 AM

Slashley

04-03-2019, 10:13 AM

Oh yeah, another thing I wanted to ask about accessories...if I'm just gonna use the ones I buy in the shop as fodder, is there any difference in experience value between the normal SSRs and ancients? If not I guess it would be better to buy the cheaper SSRs.Same fodder value. And you'll likely use them as fodder, but you might land on a good Ancient Ring, you never know.

Per-Accessory point, the SRs offer the best value though.

Argo

04-03-2019, 04:33 PM

Same fodder value. And you'll likely use them as fodder, but you might land on a good Ancient Ring, you never know.

Per-Accessory point, the SRs offer the best value though.

Oh, I get more exp from buying and fodder multiple SRs instead of one SSR? That makes sense. Thanks.

kyc992

04-03-2019, 05:06 PM

I'd say that's true when you have an excess of unwanted SSRs to use as fodder base. But if you have a huge excess of SRs but barely any fodder SSRs(either rng or not being able to do R4 constantly), the SSRs might be more worth it.

Argo

04-03-2019, 06:38 PM

Sigh...I've been rolling all my tickets so far this event and have only gotten two R hime I didn't have before, and just now when I built myself back up to 3k for a 10-roll I got excited when a gold orb turned rainbow, but it just turned out to be another one of Osiris' staves...rateup is a lie.
+1 Draconic Eye, whee~

kyc992

04-03-2019, 06:45 PM

If anything, I find rate up to only last during that 15-30 minute time frame between after maintenance and before 00:00 reset. I've gotten decent luck during that period for the past few rate ups gachas, but as soon as it went past the 00:00 reset I get nothing. Another "time frame" would be if they implemented some SC gacha right during the middle of the day around 6-8pm, which also lasts for around 15-30 minutes to which I start getting nothing after that. Would suck if it was something like, rate up by we only hand out 5-10. Lmao.

Argo

04-03-2019, 08:41 PM

I wish I could believe those things, but in my case it's usually when I 'get a good feeling' and roll that I'll get something. Problem is I haven't been able to convince myself to wait for said feeling when a new banner comes out in any of my gachas, and I just roll right away more often than not.

Dejnov

04-04-2019, 12:17 PM

Slashley

04-04-2019, 12:25 PM

Just wanted to get the group's consensus on what's the optimal amount of exceed needed in a grid to make sure you're hitting maximum burst damage potential. Is there an expected number of skills or do you have to balance it with other factors and are you really aiming for that 1 million or so individual Hime burst damage?--The biggest gain from Exceed is the increased damage cap. You need 100 skill levels (assuming Exceed()) to reach the cap for that, increasing max burst damage from 1m to 2m.

However, you need... at best one Exceed really, because reaching 1m burst damage is not an easy task. Add one more if you have a P2W Eidolon for that element. There's some quirky Hime who will Burst really hard, so more would be fine for them, or Thunder Aphro who basically alone warrants to add one more Exceed weapon.

Any Exceeds you get more than what I mentioned above will still increase your burst damage, but it's not particularly impressive. Still, more damage is always more damage, and Wind for example has access to TONS of Exceeds, which basically gives them a free PF for every full burst. That's no joke either.

tl;dr; there is no real answer, because it depends on the element in question and what you have access to (ie. how much you whale).

sss

04-04-2019, 04:35 PM

Does anyone know if morgan's ability to cover allies works against Overdrive?

Slashley

04-04-2019, 11:21 PM

Does anyone know if morgan's ability to cover allies works against Overdrive?Assuming that it is indeed Guard (why is it called Cover...?), yes. However, remember that Guard only works against single-target stuff, NOT AoE.

sss

04-05-2019, 10:27 AM

Assuming that it is indeed Guard (why is it called Cover...?), yes. However, remember that Guard only works against single-target stuff, NOT AoE.

What do you think is the best use of MP for morgan?

Slashley

04-05-2019, 12:40 PM

The "which Soul should I use?" thread (https://harem-battle.club/kamihime-project/4735-soul-thread.html) should answer that.

And also, why Morgan specifically? A Berserk build - while very powerful - is unlikely to work unless you know what you're doing...

Argo

04-05-2019, 09:32 PM

Alright, managed to get 18 points in Guild Orders, so I got the third Orichalcon. I think that's pretty damn good for my first serious foray into the mode.

kyc992

04-05-2019, 11:34 PM

So... dumped a bit hoping for either Sol or Tish, but RNG will always be RNG... ended up with draconic eye and Aether... is Aether any good? Her kit seems nice at first glance, but her +burst gauge seems to be on a rather long CD and a bit slow for wind teams. Crit may seem useful but not sure if its important enough to sacrifice health in exchange for. Lastly her burst damage+cap buff seems a bit redundant seeing as Wind has a lot of exceed weapons and fast burst teams will always be running Shingen who has already has PF. I've barely touched my Wind team and haven't researched much about Wind team so my knowledge is very lacking in that area, any explanation would be welcomed. I just don't want to label her as bad without knowing anything.

Dunhere

04-05-2019, 11:46 PM

Her exceed buff isn't consumed on use. In a fight long enough duration to charge it and with a team that can burst quickly, you can take advantage of the stacks repeatedly.

kyc992

04-06-2019, 12:42 AM

Bear

04-06-2019, 01:19 AM

Hmm, is she fast enough for spamming the buff consistently? I haven't really used any stacking buffs yet, so I assume the 10 turn duration is counted separately for each stack, and since it costs 10 BG per stack... it sort of implies she needs extra burst generated(almost doubled?) to both buff and be able to join the other himes for ~4t bursts.

Aether is very powerful, but will take some investment in order for you to be able to maximize her potential. First off, her passive allows her to generate 15BG instead of 10BG per normal hit. So that means, as long as she DATAs, she will easily catch up in burst despite the constant -10BG drain from abi3. To do that, you have several options to consider:
- Shingen buff, very weak but better than nothing
- Titania
- Acc with DA and preferably TA buff
- After WiCat is released, Tiara set
- Azazel AW, when she gets it
- Also an option, Summon actives such as Fluffy / Aratron

Personally, I've never had any trouble getting Aether to catch up. In fact, she's faster than most Wind SSRs on my team once I got her DATA consistency going, even though everyone's already equipped with Tiara sets. She's currently placed on the 3rd slot of my team, with only Cu in front of her.

P.S. Obviously, accidents can still happen and you should improvise whether you want to use abi3 when you are preparing an FB next turn, or when you don't necessary have to use it because you already have a good number of stacks, or when you are racing for MVP against other players and can't afford to lose time for long buffing animation.

kyc992

04-06-2019, 02:16 AM

So would it be appropriate to say she's more of a hime requiring heavy investments that comes with a very high rate of return, but at worst is still decent if minimally invested?

Unregistered

04-06-2019, 05:08 AM

Is there anywhere I can go to see the list of upcoming events?

Dunhere

04-06-2019, 07:25 AM

So would it be appropriate to say she's more of a hime requiring heavy investments that comes with a very high rate of return, but at worst is still decent if minimally invested?

If she doesn't have ways to support the maintenance of her burst buff, she's either a hime with no abilities or one that's dragging your FB timing down. Her value will always be tied to how fast you can get her to attack.

Slashley

04-06-2019, 08:16 AM

Is there anywhere I can go to see the list of upcoming events?The encyclopedia in Sanahtlig's toolbox (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PhfOAQk6EyK5l33ux_C4T-cexVIQp6D-_Hbd-OO1OmQ/edit#gid=1090858479) gives you a quick peek on all the upcoming events.

Or you can just use the DMM wiki, I guess. We're pretty much exactly one year behind of them.

Unregistered

04-06-2019, 10:38 AM

If she doesn't have ways to support the maintenance of her burst buff, she's either a hime with no abilities or one that's dragging your FB timing down. Her value will always be tied to how fast you can get her to attack.

Not true man. Dragging your FB timing down? You crazy? Her +50% BG rate assist isn't just for show you know. There is no way she would drag you down unless you blindly spam her burst buff every turn. And you are completely ignoring her team 20BG every 7T. While not as awesome as Shingen's MEX, she is at the very least speeding up your team and not the other way around. Also don't forget she easily bursts for more dmg than your other SSRs because of that echo of hers. Saying that she has no useful ability other than her burst buff is complete BS.

Argo

04-06-2019, 01:33 PM

Crap. Somehow I keep logging into an old reroll account today instead of my actual one. I can login to my normal account on Firefox, but I prefer to play the game on Chrome because it runs better there, but that's where I'm now logging into the junk account now. They both have the same email, apparently, and I don't really have anything else to change it to.
Is there a way to delete a nutaku account? All that one has is Ouroboros and I want to get rid of it so this stops happening.

EDIT: Just tried changing the password on my proper account, but somehow it still logged in to the other one. What the hell? Now I'm worried that if I try to get the dummy one deleted it'll delete my actual one...

kyc992

04-06-2019, 04:12 PM

Argo

04-06-2019, 04:55 PM

Not sure if this will work, try logging out on chrome, change password on firefox then logout. Go back to chrome, clear cache, go to settings->click password->delete saved password for your nutaku account. Now try manually entering your acc/pw on chrome and see if the same happens. If it still does then I dunno.

For the time being I've had to switch the garbo account over to my business email, and now I can login to my normal one just fine. But I'm still stuck with a Nutaku account on my business email and I want it gone -A-;

kyc992

04-06-2019, 05:06 PM

Well in that case since it's a trash account... sign up for a trash e-mail and transfer it over. Then just move your nutaku account from your business e-mail to your personal one. As for the trash e-mail, just make something random because you will never need to use it.

Unregistered

04-06-2019, 09:44 PM

Shingen bow or Shingen lance, which is better and why?

PF on the bow seems good, but the elemental attack is on the lance

Rea

04-06-2019, 09:59 PM

Say, if I were to unlock a few things in Shingen's MP system (ATK UP lvl 3 and all that) and switch to Yukimura then energy inheritence to Shingen, would Yukimura possess those MP boosts as well?

Shieun

04-06-2019, 10:08 PM

Unregistered

04-06-2019, 10:16 PM

The lance

You get extra BG on skill 1, guaranteeing you FB + PF all the time i.e. Shingen only needs 2 turns in worst case scenario to reach full gauge after using PF from 100 gauge.

Also, while the extra bonus on PF on the bow sounds nice, you're dropping bonus elemental atk for that bonus PF, and you're not guaranteed a full burst + PF.

If I were to have other ways to get burst like say, shingen's ex skill that gives 20 to the whole team, would that make a difference?

Also, would it affect exceed weapons and burst accessories?

Superbia

04-06-2019, 10:42 PM

Shingen bow or Shingen lance, which is better and why?

PF on the bow seems good, but the elemental attack is on the lance

The lance is usually the best one to go for. The elemental attack is normally to good to pass and also with Shingen it gets a nice effect. It will allow Shingen to full burst on the turn you use PF if you use her own extra ability. This removes having to rely on other kami or luck.

trew

04-07-2019, 03:23 AM

Hello,

I am about to buy a weapon for Herc, the axe mainly. The elemental effect is better than assault, right?

Slashley

04-07-2019, 03:37 AM

Shingen bow or Shingen lance, which is better and why?

PF on the bow seems good, but the elemental attack is on the lance
If I were to have other ways to get burst like say, shingen's ex skill that gives 20 to the whole team, would that make a difference?

Also, would it affect exceed weapons and burst accessories?The Lance.
1. 30% passive Elemental is no joke.
2. PF is useless if you don't Full Burst and Lance gives you a far better chance of reaching 100 Burst. You either attack twice or better yet, use Shingen's Encourage Inspiration for an instant Full Burst.
3. The Bow gives you 500% (up from 200%), so you're hard-capped for the Burst modifier instantly. Which is a good thing, but Exceed weapons are thus half-wasted, as their burst modifier no longer applies (only the cap increase). Same with Burst Accessories, but you don't want Burst Accessories to begin with.

The Bow can be useful, but what is required from you:
1. P2W Eidolon, when using double P2W Eidolons the loss of 30% Elemental doesn't hurt that much.
2. Some way for your Hime to guarantee Shingen to reach 100 Burst again. If instantly, great. For example Shingen's first skill + Encourage Inspiration + 10/20 Burst from a Hime. Remember that reaching -50% Def is very important, so you can't run Encourage Inspiration if your team doesn't cover A or B debuff.
3. While not a requirement, being a massive whale is recommended. Having a out-of-this-world Hime FLB Grid with the right Phantom weapon will let you Burst for your cap despite the lack of 30% Elemental. Furthermore, such Grids typically struggle for HP, so 30% from the Bow would be very welcome.

As you can see, just about everyone is just going to tell you to just use the Lance.
Say, if I were to unlock a few things in Shingen's MP system (ATK UP lvl 3 and all that) and switch to Yukimura then energy inheritence to Shingen, would Yukimura possess those MP boosts as well?Yes. If you're using Shingen's skillset, you'll also get the Energy Release boosts.

If you're using Shingen with Yukimura's skillset, you don't get the Energy Release boosts, I believe.
Hello,

I am about to buy a weapon for Herc, the axe mainly. The elemental effect is better than assault, right?Better isn't exactly right. Elemental and Assault are equally good for damage.

However, this isn't about Elemental or Assault. This is about Elemental or HP. The Axe is offensive - and has the better effect to boot - so you get the Axe, no questions asked.

Unregistered

04-08-2019, 04:01 AM

During Union Events, how much individual PP do y'all earn on every day? And how long do you spend doing them each day?

Torkov

04-08-2019, 07:52 AM

During Union Events, how much individual PP do y'all earn on every day? And how long do you spend doing them each day?

If you want to be ranked, you should decide with your union to focus on Expert only on one day and Ultimate only on another day.
Also you get PP by beating Lillim too so if the boss is too tough for you or if you locked yourself out of all the boss slot, you can still farm grails.
Only the PP you earn on a single day count for the ranking, so unless you are still missing PP for the rewards, there is no real point of farming the boss after the focusing days.

Unregistered

04-08-2019, 04:45 PM

Hello, i have a question. The weapon skills, does their limit is 20? Is it in all the weapons?

Unregistered

04-08-2019, 05:14 PM

Generally yes!, unless it's a SSR which can be final limit break, then 30 SL it's the max.

Unregistered

04-08-2019, 05:33 PM

Ok, thank you.

Unregistered

04-09-2019, 03:35 AM

If you want to be ranked, you should decide with your union to focus on Expert only on one day and Ultimate only on another day.
... there is no real point of farming the boss after the focusing days.

Oh... My union doesn't do focusing days anymore...

Rea

04-09-2019, 08:20 AM

So I just recently got the Phantom Lance... Is it worth it to replace all (3) my 0LB SSR Assault (L) and Pride (L) (non lance) weapons with some MLB SR Assault (M) Lances?

Superbia

04-09-2019, 10:12 AM

Oh... My union doesn't do focusing days anymore...

Then maybe you should find a new union. Most unions would normally focus a day for expert and a day for ultimate, and use any spare grails for those that want to either grind personal PP or finish it off.
That being said, one day on the grind days is normally more than enough to finish all PP.

nut

04-09-2019, 11:30 AM

So I just recently got the Phantom Lance... Is it worth it to replace all (3) my 0LB SSR Assault (L) and Pride (L) (non lance) weapons with some MLB SR Assault (M) Lances?

It's worth it, 3% assault loss (if not mention the pride lost hp bonus) for about 2-3k atk plus the Assault L and Defender L from the lance, need you weapon detail for specific
btw which element you gonna usi.ng that lance for?

Unregistered

04-09-2019, 02:11 PM

kyc992

04-09-2019, 02:53 PM

Now that I've got a Light team, I'm trying to work on the grid and I realized that it's pretty bad. No defenders, and mostly SRs. I've been advised that running null lance would give me enough HP but I don't have a phantom lance so that doesn't help. Even if I did, I only have Mich and Tish Lance, counting Shingen's Lance(who I won't be getting until around July...) that only gives me 4. It's something I will be aiming for, but not something that can help me now.

So instead I thought up of some ways to work around my grid, and the only possible things I can think up of are the following:

1) Since I do have a phantom hammer(LB1) along with 1 SSR hammer(Nandi) and 4 SR hammers(raid) I was wondering if it was fine to substitute one of my SR Assaults for a Defender SSR(Raphael staff or Tsuku bow).

2) Use HP soul weapons, I don't have Shingen yet, so my soul will probably be Herc(for dmg) or Andro(already have a LB0 Andro HP weapon from being dumb), D'Art may also be an option since she is more justified for running an HP soul weapon compared to other souls

3) Ignore the Idea of 1-2, run Ele Soul weapon(Not sure which soul to run for now), 2 Defender SSRs, 2 Nandi SSRs+Mich Lance(benching Tish lance for now) and fill remaining slots with SR assaults

4) Since I also have Fluffy, use char atk/hp friend support eidolons

The above are my ideas for what I can do in my "current situation", mostly thanks to Fluffy allowing me some breathing room to slightly sacrifice a bit of assault for defender. I was wondering if anybody could give me some insight on which of the above are ways that I can do without too much of a sacrifice.

Unregistered

04-09-2019, 05:14 PM

I don’t know why you need Defender that much but HP weapon Joan or Andro is good support comp, and those 2 can help your team survive better. I belive with Tish and Mike your team won’t be too slow and the dmg will not too bad with hammer null grid and Fluffy

kyc992

04-09-2019, 05:32 PM

Reason I'm trying to get a few Defenders is because I'm currently sitting at 6kish HP, and that's with LB0 Andro HP weapon at SL6... and 7-8k HP if I also borrow a friendly 20% HP eido. Might also be because my Fire team, which is my main, is at around 9-10k HP without the need for a pure Defender weapon or HP eido. The sudden drop of almost 40% HP makes me feel kinda weak:sad:.

Unregistered

04-09-2019, 08:47 PM

Typically, early on, running 1 SSR defender weapon (that also has decent stats to function as a stat stick too) in your grid is okay for the extra HP until you can cover it with raw stats from an ssr grid. However, I really wouldn't recommend 2, as that would have a much bigger impact on your damage and doesn't give as much due to diminishing returns. This is mainly why people love dual skill assault/hp weapons, they fill this spot perfectly without a lot of drawback. So if you have tsuku's bow, just use it (it's not pure defender).

kyc992

04-09-2019, 11:33 PM

Rea

04-10-2019, 01:01 AM

It's worth it, 3% assault loss (if not mention the pride lost hp bonus) for about 2-3k atk plus the Assault L and Defender L from the lance, need you weapon detail for specific
btw which element you gonna usi.ng that lance for?

I'm using it for fire.
Currently my grid consists of:
1. SSR Shingen SPEAR - 2LB (working towards MLB)
2. SSR Acala's SWORD - 0LB Assault (L)
3. SSR Shuttle Bubble HAMMER - MLB Assault (M) Defender (S)
4. SSR Uriel's GUN - 0LB Pride (L)
5. SSR Fire BOW Guilty Wrath - MLB Pride (L)
6. SSR Brutal LANCE Typhoeus - MLB Assault (L)
7. SSR Haloeris Ankh - 1LB Assault (M) Defender (S)
8. SSR Svarog's AXE - 0LB Assault (L)
9. SR Fate Stealer - MLB Assault (M)
10. SR Hino Kagutsuchi (Lance) - MLB Assault (M)

3 of the ones in bold (not both bold and italics) are the ones I plan to replace with the Phantom Lance as well as some MLB SR Assault (M) Lances and possibly 1 MLB SR Assault (S) Exceed (S) Lance

EDIT: Here are the rest of my Lances (other than the ones above):
*MLB SSR Dragon Spear Fell Tepes - has Assault (M) and Stinger (S)
*0LB SSR Dragon Spear Fell Tepes
The rest are SRs:
*2LB (will buy a brick from eido shop if I have to) Piercing Fire Spear - has Assault (M), 3rd highest max total power (2022) and ATK (1932) out of all Assault (M) SRs.
*MLB Maris Lancea - has Assault (M), max ttl pwer 1770 (17th out of all Assault (M) SRs), max ATK 1674 (16th out of all Assault (M) SRs)
*MLB Izushi Long Spear - Assault (S) and Exceed (S), max ttl pwer 1806, max ATK 1740
*2LB Izushi Long Spear
*0LB (will buy 3 bricks from eido shop if I have to) Hino Kagutsuchi - has Assault (M), 2nd highest max total power (2082) and ATK (2010) out of all Assault (M) SRs

nut

04-10-2019, 03:24 AM

I'm using it for fire.
Currently my grid consists of:
1. SSR Shingen SPEAR - 2LB (working towards MLB)
2. SSR Acala's SWORD - 0LB Assault (L)
3. SSR Shuttle Bubble HAMMER - MLB Assault (M) Defender (S)
4. SSR Uriel's GUN - 0LB Pride (L)
5. SSR Fire BOW Guilty Wrath - MLB Pride (L)
6. SSR Brutal LANCE Typhoeus - MLB Assault (L)
7. SSR Haloeris Ankh - 1LB Assault (M) Defender (S)
8. SSR Svarog's AXE - 0LB Assault (L)
9. SR Fate Stealer - MLB Assault (M)
10. SR Hino Kagutsuchi (Lance) - MLB Assault (M)

3 of the ones in bold (not both bold and italics) are the ones I plan to replace with the Phantom Lance as well as some MLB SR Assault (M) Lances and possibly 1 MLB SR Assault (S) Exceed (S) Lance

EDIT: Here are the rest of my Lances (other than the ones above):
*MLB SSR Dragon Spear Fell Tepes - has Assault (M) and Stinger (S)
*0LB SSR Dragon Spear Fell Tepes
The rest are SRs:
*2LB (will buy a brick from eido shop if I have to) Piercing Fire Spear - has Assault (M), 3rd highest max total power (2022) and ATK (1932) out of all Assault (M) SRs.
*MLB Maris Lancea - has Assault (M), max ttl pwer 1770 (17th out of all Assault (M) SRs), max ATK 1674 (16th out of all Assault (M) SRs)
*MLB Izushi Long Spear - Assault (S) and Exceed (S), max ttl pwer 1806, max ATK 1740
*2LB Izushi Long Spear
*0LB (will buy 3 bricks from eido shop if I have to) Hino Kagutsuchi - has Assault (M), 2nd highest max total power (2082) and ATK (2010) out of all Assault (M) SRs

You hoarding quite amount of SR lance here :cool:
I think grid will do:
1. SSR Shingen SPEAR - 2LB (working towards MLB)
2. MLB SSR Dragon Spear Fell Tepes
3. SSR Shuttle Bubble HAMMER - MLB Assault (M) Defender (S)
4. Phantom Lance
5. SSR Fire BOW Guilty Wrath - MLB Pride (L)
6. SSR Brutal LANCE Typhoeus - MLB Assault (L)
7. SSR Haloeris Ankh - 1LB Assault (M) Defender (S)
8. SSR Fire Sword Guilty Wrath (next UE in about 2 weeks)
9. SR Izushi Long Spear or another SR Assault
10. SR Hino Kagutsuchi (Lance) - MLB Assault (M)
Compare to your old grid, this grid better in both skill and stats (much better in stats).

Unregistered

04-10-2019, 03:56 AM

Main reason why I considered 2 at first was because a single SSR Defender at SL20 would give me the exact same HP % as my current Andro soul weapon, and if I switch that to an Ele ATK Herc Axe I'd still be at about 7k HP which isn't really a boost to my HP. Since I had Fluffy which gives me roughly 40% Ele ATK more than running a 40/45% Eido, I thought it'd be ok to sacrifice another SR Assault for SSR Defender which should give me around 1.5K HP or so, which translates into more damage by living longer. Also that one of my Defender at least had an Assault which is 10% at SL20, so was thinking it wouldn't be TOO big of a loss. Which was why I wondered if it was worth FLBing Tsuku bow before Tish Lance(since I won't have 6 lances/phantom lance yet) and after Mich lance, because that upgrades the Assault to the next level.

But yeah, I might be a bit too paranoid about it, and 2 Defenders might be overkill.

If you have to use anymore than 1 brick to FLB the bow, don't (and even one is debatable for the short term gain - KH is a long term game). Bricks are in short supply, and you will need a LOT of them for make a good grid for light. Once you FLB Michael's lance, what you want is to get another Michael lance (through mtix if necessary) and use bricks on that. From the sound of things, you probably don't have the crossover spear either, so you will also likely want bricks for Lugh's spear as well (it's not the best, but you'll already get it if you're maining Light and will help complete your spear grid). Those 3 + Tish spear + Shingen spear will allow you to run your grid. The last thing you want to do is spend bricks on things that you won't keep in the long run.

Rea

04-10-2019, 06:02 AM

8. SSR Fire Sword Guilty Wrath (next UE in about 2 weeks)

If the fire UE is coming back, then I could get another Fire BOW Guilty Wrath. In the grid you described above, I have 7 spears, which is 1 more than I need (6 needed to proc. the phantom lance's skills)

nut

04-10-2019, 09:06 AM

If the fire UE is coming back, then I could get another Fire BOW Guilty Wrath. In the grid you described above, I have 7 spears, which is 1 more than I need (6 needed to proc. the phantom lance's skills)

There is 6 lance here :think:
1. SSR Shingen SPEAR - 2LB (working towards MLB)
2. MLB SSR Dragon Spear Fell Tepes
4. Phantom Lance
6. SSR Brutal LANCE Typhoeus - MLB Assault (L)
9. SR Izushi Long Spear or another SR Assault
10. SR Hino Kagutsuchi (Lance) - MLB Assault (M)
The fire UE is coming back at apr 24th, but I don't think you should put 2 UE bow here, unless you flb them, and you should priority flb the lance and the sword first.

Unregistered

04-10-2019, 02:27 PM

I am planning ahead for the next tower event and trying to put together a somewhat functional fire team.

I have SSR Uriel and Acala (neither are awakened.) Uriel seems pretty straight forward to use, but Acala seems very underwhelming, to the point that I am thinking of using an SR instead of her. Her rage punishing skill isn't very punishing - 4-5x dmg - many abilities come close to that without needing the enemy raging; her atk up/def down makes her a glass cannon unless I bring someone that can cleanse that def down; maybe I just don't know how to use it properly, but her mode gauge manipulation skill doesn't seem that helpful. Her raw stats are very impressive, but I hope to do well in the next fire UE such that raw stats should not be a big issue. Am I missing something here?

My fire SRs are Amon, Agni, Argos, Hephaestus, Ragaraja. I am thinking of using Uriel (burst dmg), Agni (fire atk buff), Hephaestus (def debuff and atk buff) and Ragaraja (zeal), Argos and Acala or Amon as sub (will use Amon if up against annoying afflictions.) Probably run Andromeda as soul (only her and Joan are unlocked, though I should have enough soul points to unlock one more after Vritra event.)

Slashley

04-10-2019, 02:52 PM

-- Am I missing something here?
--No, you're not. Pre-Awakening Acala is nothing impressive. Still, when you're able to Awaken someone, don't Awaken her. Awaken Uriel, who turns from good to Amazing with a capital A.

Are you familiar with how Tower works? You can't use the same Hime for the next two days, so putting together a "functional Fire team" doesn't really do anything for you. You need six different teams for full points.

Unregistered

04-10-2019, 03:03 PM

Yes, Uriel is on my list to awaken, but I don't main fire, so it'll be a long while before I get to her.

Are you familiar with how Tower works? You can't use the same Hime for the next two days, so putting together a "functional Fire team" doesn't really do anything for you. You need six different teams for full points.

Yes, I plan to rotate my R himes for the lower floors. When I feel like I am hitting my limit (don't think I am near strong enough to clear all floors), I will field my 'functional fire team'. After that, will field my light team (I main light) to see if I can clear one more floor without the fire bonus. Any noticeable flaws with that plan? This will be my second tower event, so please be patient if my planning seems off.

Slashley

04-10-2019, 03:12 PM

I don't think that the difficulty ramps up that fast. While it is hard to say for sure since I know basically nothing about your account, chances are you'll have better results in making two Fire teams before moving on to off-element.

Unregistered

04-10-2019, 03:30 PM

Honestly, I'm not sure how strong I am either. Last tower I only cleared up to 6th floor (I think I had to use 3 keys to clear it, too...) I have gotten stronger since then, and unlike last time, I actually started farming fire SR assault weapons ahead of time and slvl them up a bit so it won't be like my fire team hits for like a fraction of my light team (which is what happened to my thunder team last time round.) I guess I will play it by ear.

In any case, good to know that I am not missing anything obvious with Acala, thanks!

Rea

04-11-2019, 03:39 AM

There is 6 lance here :think:
1. SSR Shingen SPEAR - 2LB (working towards MLB)
2. MLB SSR Dragon Spear Fell Tepes
4. Phantom Lance
6. SSR Brutal LANCE Typhoeus - MLB Assault (L)
9. SR Izushi Long Spear or another SR Assault
10. SR Hino Kagutsuchi (Lance) - MLB Assault (M)
The fire UE is coming back at apr 24th, but I don't think you should put 2 UE bow here, unless you flb them, and you should priority flb the lance and the sword first.

Nevermind, my brain’s just dumb lol. I thought all the weapons you replaced were lances and thought the sword wasn’t a sword lol

Anufius

04-11-2019, 03:59 AM

How much do I lose statistically by doing 300 jewel rolls instead or 3k jewel rolls?

Btw it took me "only" 396 created accounts to get ssr diabolos with increased chances

Slashley

04-11-2019, 04:40 AM

How much do I lose statistically by doing 300 jewel rolls instead or 3k jewel rolls?--You lose the guaranteed SR only, so nothing for SSR drops. But newer accounts will want as many SR Hime as possible.

Unregistered

04-11-2019, 08:18 AM

Haven't seen Laventale or Kitty for weeks... Are they taking a break?

Slashley

04-11-2019, 09:02 AM

Haven't seen Laventale or Kitty for weeks... Are they taking a break?Laventale quit KH ages ago. I got the impression that he only popped up when Kitty asked him to sticky or unsticky threads.

As for Kitty, his fate is unknown. Hasn't posted in two weeks.

falcontea

04-11-2019, 01:12 PM

I still see Kitty still pop up in game during raids. Probably just not using the forums anymore.

Laventale

04-11-2019, 04:52 PM

I've been homeless for about 2 months, so trying to find somewhere to stay in and also trying to get food daily ain't easy tasks.

Laventale quit KH ages ago.

This is true, I haven't played KH in almost a year. However...

I got the impression that he only popped up when Kitty asked him to sticky or unsticky threads.

This is not true, lmao.

Delete

04-12-2019, 03:18 AM

Looking the Phantom weapons, they say things like, on the lance case "HP & Attack Up +++". How works exactly that "+++", compared to the 6%+0.5% per level of normal ++ weapons? :think:

Slashley

04-12-2019, 05:06 AM

Lance is Assault(++)/Defender(++). Or should be, at least. Nutaku fuck-ups as usual.

Only solo skills are (+++), namely Hammer (Assault(+++)) and Gun (Defender(+++)). According to DMM wiki, these would be 23% at slvl20, but people have been adamant about them being 30% (at slvl20). I can't be arsed to test with my Hammer, so I guess I'll just need to wait until a Gun drops.

nonsensei

04-12-2019, 05:56 AM

Y'all should just forget about taco's silly +s for skill/effect sizes. If you want to know something specific, just look up JP or even EN wiki. EN wiki has been put a lot of effort in & looks nice nowadays. While you can't look up future info, the current stuff is recorded fine in there.

Lance is Assault(++)/Defender(++). Or should be, at least. Nutaku fuck-ups as usual.

Only solo skills are (+++), namely Hammer (Assault(+++)) and Gun (Defender(+++)). According to DMM wiki, these would be 23% at slvl20, but people have been adamant about them being 30% (at slvl20). I can't be arsed to test with my Hammer, so I guess I'll just need to wait until a Gun drops.

And here goes the dangers of looking at JP wiki without the necessary knowledge on DMM stuff.
The skill size you're looking at is a new one introduced with the new UE (currently only those new UE weps have it after you FLB them). Its effect is in-between the large & the size previously known as XL.
This new skill size is just as described at JP wiki, starts from a 9% base (in case of assault & defender, no other skill type has this size yet) & gets added a 0.7% with each SL, ending you up with 23% at SL20 & 30% at SL30. I usually refer to this size as xL instead of XL.
Whereas the XL (which got renamed to I don't even know what) starts from 10% base & gets added 1% with each SL, ending you up with 30% at SL20. Only the hero weapons & the previously mentioned 2 phantom weapon have them, so no FLB values & only known in assault/defender/elemental effects.

Slashley

04-12-2019, 06:18 AM

--
Whereas the XL (which got renamed to I don't even know what) starts from 10% base & gets added 1% with each SL, ending you up with 30% at SL20. Only the hero weapons & the previously mentioned 2 phantom weapon have them, so no FLB values & only known in assault/defender/elemental effects.So, why is it not at all on the DMM Wiki then?

nonsensei

04-12-2019, 06:28 AM

So, why is it not at all on the DMM Wiki then?

Even if you ask me that..
Probably they had a hard time categorizing them since every hero & phantom weapon has its unique skill name & that was a perfect excuse for being lazy & not to list it..? Not to mention that the atk hero weapons are elemental ones which are really unique to only hero weapons. But I'm just doing guesswork here.

EDIT: Nvm, they're recording, you just have to scroll down & open the drop down menus at the hero names.

Gludateton

04-12-2019, 06:45 AM

And here goes the dangers of looking at JP wiki without the necessary knowledge on DMM stuff.
The skill size you're looking at is a new one introduced with the new UE (currently only those new UE weps have it after you FLB them). Its effect is in-between the large & the size previously known as XL.
This new skill size is just as described at JP wiki, starts from a 9% base (in case of assault & defender, no other skill type has this size yet) & gets added a 0.7% with each SL, ending you up with 23% at SL20 & 30% at SL30. I usually refer to this size as xL instead of XL.
Whereas the XL (which got renamed to I don't even know what) starts from 10% base & gets added 1% with each SL, ending you up with 30% at SL20. Only the hero weapons & the previously mentioned 2 phantom weapon have them, so no FLB values & only known in assault/defender/elemental effects.
Skill name itself wasn't changed, it's size was changed from 特大 to 極大 with inclusion of new UE weapons (as 特大 is now taken by them).

So, why is it not at all on the DMM Wiki then?
It never was. Null weapons were listed with their respective skills, but values were never listed (or at least I don't remember them being listed). 特大 for Assault was added when new UE weapons came.

nonsensei

04-12-2019, 07:23 AM

Skill name itself wasn't changed, it's size was changed from 特大 to 極大 with inclusion of new UE weapons (as 特大 is now taken by them).

Well, hello. XL is a skill size, not a skill name, so I don't see the reason you're correcting something that is correct.

Argo

04-13-2019, 03:57 PM

Did a test run with my Darks against the R5 Light Accessory quest last night, and managed to clear it! Lost my Soul in the last stage, but it's certainly a good sign. Should be able to improve my Lights even more.

Rea

04-14-2019, 02:23 AM

Say, is it worth the time to farm SR weapons from story mode? If so, what's the best stage to farm the materials for them?

Dejnov

04-14-2019, 03:22 AM

Say, is it worth the time to farm SR weapons from story mode? If so, what's the best stage to farm the materials for them?

All of the story mode weapons are incredibly poor. You should use them if you have nothing better, but every advent/event gives SR weapons that are better. The average total power of story mode weapons is around 1400 (assault or defender). The average event SR is around 1800 total power. Not worth keeping them for the long run. The only thing moderately recommended from the story mode is the Vine Eidolon (SR) as she has -10% DEF down. If you're going to farm story mode, farm that.

If you're looking for SR assault weapons, farm the catastrophes. Any level catastrophe can give you an SR weapon (assault or defender) with the Ultimate only dropping defenders. When I was first starting my grid, that was the main set of SR weapons I had (for all elements). You can do each level 3 times and make sure to drop into others as much as possible. You only have to hit the enemy once to get a chance of getting an SR weapon.

Dejnov.

Rea

04-14-2019, 03:53 AM

All of the story mode weapons are incredibly poor. You should use them if you have nothing better, but every advent/event gives SR weapons that are better.

Dejnov.

Oh no, I was gonna use them for skill level fodder

Unregistered

04-14-2019, 04:01 AM

There's no point farming those for fodder, since you can just run the standard/expert raids for fodder much easier.

Argo

04-14-2019, 03:15 PM

There's no point farming those for fodder, since you can just run the standard/expert raids for fodder much easier.

What is the drop rate on SR drops in raids, anyway? I need loads of fodder myself.

Unregistered

04-14-2019, 06:06 PM

What is the drop rate on SR drops in raids, anyway? I need loads of fodder myself.

I have some data on this (assumes all elements have the same drop rate and all data from me solo-ing the whole raid):

Standard: 287 raids dropped 61 assault or defender SR weapons (21%)
Expert: 119 raids dropped 14 assault or defender SR weapons (12%) - not sure if expert drops are actually lower or I just have incredibly bad luck
Ultimate: no data, I am not strong enough to solo these yet

Note that Ultimate only drop ASSAULT (ATK up) NOT defender (HP up), although for skill fodder, it doesn't matter.

Saeleyna

04-15-2019, 04:57 AM

Got a couple new SSRs and was hoping for some team advice.

Water:
Cthulhu, Sarasvati, Ea, Asherah, Aphrodite, Shiva, Ryu-oh. Was previously running Aphrodite/Sarasvati (depending on if I needed a cleanse or not), Shiva, Asherah, and Ryu-Oh, but with obtaining Cthulhu was thinking of swapping her with aphro/sarasvati, however that would mean no healing for raid fights (for soloing). While my water grid is definitely my best, it's still not quite there, and I still haven't actually bought a main soul weapon yet - largely due storm bow alvand being necessary to get to -50% def down (which after acquiring Cthulhu this morning, I believe no longer will be necessary, however it would still be so if I want to use Shingen's EX ability.....).

Wind
Cu Chulainn, Azazel, Hastur, Gaia, Titania.
I just got Titania, who I'm assuming should replace Azazel and be put in the first slot (or should Cu still be first? Haven't messed around with her yet and still unawakened). The main question is should this comp be running Shingen with EX ability or no? No SS means only 40% def down, which makes me think for now Herc is still the way to go, but that means losing out on Shingen's EX for the smexy burst chaining.

Dark
Thanatos, Satan, Pluto, Hades, Amon-U, and Susanoo.
Just picked up Susano-o and still leveling her, but was curious if she could even be shoved into my line up in any way. Using Thanatos, Satan, Pluto, and Hades atm with Shingen (EX ability), which unfortunately only puts me at -45% def down, but feel like that's better than going Amon + Satan and leaving Thanatos out. Either way, adding Susano-o would mean replacing either Pluto or Hades, both of whom seem pretty necessary considering I have no atk down in my comp with Hades (and my dark grid is severely HP lacking/underwhelming as a whole). I've debated taking Thanatos out and running SS on soul, but not sure if that's worth it especially as I'm still leveling Susano-o.

Fire
So my fire comp is garbage, only have Prometheus and Dakki and using Haphaestus cause fire has no def downs, but can never decide who I want the last SR to be. Currently running D'art with soul weapon, but realized that to clear the rank 5 accessory quest I need to run Shingen for PF (or else I can't drain her rage gauge quick enough), making me think Shingen's the way to go overall, but that means only -35% def down at most running Haphaestus. Keep going back and forth on Themis (for quicker bursts), Kagutsuchi for the explosive ability nuke, and Agni for her fire atk up. Also toyed with Ragaraja, but always seemed a bit too lackluster for me. I could of course opt out of running a 5th fire unit in replace of more debuffs from another element, but not sure who I would use.

Sorry long post. Any help appreciated.

Dejnov

04-15-2019, 01:07 PM

Got a couple new SSRs and was hoping for some team advice.

Water:
Cthulhu, Sarasvati, Ea, Asherah, Aphrodite, Shiva, Ryu-oh. Was previously running Aphrodite/Sarasvati (depending on if I needed a cleanse or not), Shiva, Asherah, and Ryu-Oh, but with obtaining Cthulhu was thinking of swapping her with aphro/sarasvati, however that would mean no healing for raid fights (for soloing). While my water grid is definitely my best, it's still not quite there, and I still haven't actually bought a main soul weapon yet - largely due storm bow alvand being necessary to get to -50% def down (which after acquiring Cthulhu this morning, I believe no longer will be necessary, however it would still be so if I want to use Shingen's EX ability.....).

Dark
Thanatos, Satan, Pluto, Hades, Amon-U, and Susanoo.
Just picked up Susano-o and still leveling her, but was curious if she could even be shoved into my line up in any way. Using Thanatos, Satan, Pluto, and Hades atm with Shingen (EX ability), which unfortunately only puts me at -45% def down, but feel like that's better than going Amon + Satan and leaving Thanatos out. Either way, adding Susano-o would mean replacing either Pluto or Hades, both of whom seem pretty necessary considering I have no atk down in my comp with Hades (and my dark grid is severely HP lacking/underwhelming as a whole). I've debated taking Thanatos out and running SS on soul, but not sure if that's worth it especially as I'm still leveling Susano-o.

Sorry long post. Any help appreciated.

So I'll comment on the two teams I play and let someone else more knowledgeable on the other elements comment on those.

For water your strongest team is Asherah, Saraswati, Ryu-Oh, and Cthulhu. This team is fairly fast, has -40% DEF down, Black Propaganda, orb eat, and has some basic healing. Between Asherah and Saraswati you should be able to speed this team up fairly well. Cthulhu can also be fast, but is usually temperamental as her speed isn't guaranteed. I'd stick Cthulhu first, then Saras, followed by Asherah and Ryu-Oh last.

For the dark team I'd run Thanatos, Satan, Pluto, and Susanoo. There's no healing here (other than Susanoo's self heal), but you've got -45% DEF down, orb eat, speed, damage cut, and damage up. Should be fairly strong. BTW- Susanoo awakened is ungodly in strength. She, on average, does at least 20% more damage than other Dark SSRs. I usually can't find place for her in my team, but I'd take her over Hades and Amon since you have Satan and Pluto. Line up should be as listed up above. Once you up your grid, hopefully you won't be feeling so bad about HPs or healing. You can take Shingen with this team and see how it runs. You'll be looking for Osiris (to replace Susanoo) at some point to make a fairly fast bursty team.

Dejnov.