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KamiPro Soul
03-05-2017, 09:10 AM
I'm playing Kamihime Project for a while. Now I mostly understand all the mechanics of the game but I'm very much in a dilemma in choosing my 'LEGENDARY SPIRIT' Which legendary spirit should I release first? My choice is Arthur but I want expert advice in this matter. Tell me about your thoughts guys.

sanahtlig
03-05-2017, 09:21 AM
Arthur: Sustained DPS
Joan of Arc: Spike damage mitigation (especially against bosses)
Andromeda: Endurance
Solomon: Not recommended
Siegfried: Burst DPS on bosses, useless on everything else. Very reliant on the Burst damage of her mainhand weapon.
Mordred: Debuffer, best at damage smoothing and overcoming stronger enemies
Dal'Tanian: Strong debuff extra skill and useful healing/attack-up skill, but limited choice of weapons means your Burst damage could suffer

Arthur, Andromeda, or Mordred are generally recommended as your first Legendary unlocks. If you lack healing in your group, pick Andromeda. If you like challenging harder difficulties while undergeared, pick Mordred. If you want a good all-rounder, pick Arthur.

nazrin992
03-05-2017, 11:38 AM
I don't see how picking Mordred will result in poor gear seeing that she wields swords and glaives, one of them being common in the game.

It's a shame that Solomon is particularly the weakest among Heroes. I really like her design. I really should get her when I got other Legendaries unlocked.

Unregistered
03-05-2017, 12:34 PM
No no, he doesn't mean picking Mordred will lead you to being undergeared. He means that while you're still undergeared, Mordred allows you to punch above your weight class.

felix
03-05-2017, 02:39 PM
Well, idk: D'Artagnan might be a good 1st pick, since it boosts your loot gain, which is king on events if you cant steamroll max difficulty. Plus nice debuff that is usefull in any situation, but yeah, if you dont have a good healer (Sol) then Andromeda will let you live a long and happy life on battlefield XD

iykwim
03-05-2017, 07:13 PM
Or if you got urself an SSR weapon, pick the legendary heroes who can wield it.

VortexMagus
03-05-2017, 08:04 PM
Mordred and Andromeda are the two best for newbies by far, in my opinion. Mordred's skills are just so damn strong (puts every affliction on the game on a boss, plus a skill that reduces affliction resistance lol) since afflictions are overpowered and the most important thing to have for killing bosses.

Andromeda is just stupid good because if you can keep your team alive, they can win any fight no matter how tough eventually.

Arthur is a close second to them both, though, since the defense buffs are really strong against certain bosses that have oneshot potential against your team.

If you want Siegfried (to steal MVPs with) or D'art (to farm more items with) I'd suggest unlocking them second - unless you have a godly starting pool of kamis and not just an SR or two like me, you're gonna need a strong heroic soul to carry you through your initial fights.

---

Generally speaking though I don't suggest ANY damage soul to start with. You only need three things for the most difficult fights in the game - healing, afflictions, and buffs. Andro brings healing, Mordred brings afflictions, and IMO Arthur is the best for buffs/defense.

The damage from Sieg is uniquely bad because it only works on bosses that rage and then stun, so he's actually trash for running missions. That's also why Solomon is considered terrible - he offers nothing but mediocre damage and usually thats what you need the least to win fights.

sanahtlig
03-05-2017, 08:05 PM
Or if you got urself an SSR weapon, pick the legendary heroes who can wield it.
Starting SSR weapon should be rather low on the list of priorities influencing hero decision. Your team element is going to be a more important factor influencing the choice of main-hand weapon. Likewise, choice of hero will be dependent on what capabilities your team is missing, especially healing and debuffs. Not to mention an active player will be accruing SSR weapons at a rate of 1 every 1.5 weeks anyway.

Another way to think of it is: which are more difficult to acquire, SSR weapons or the right combination of SR+ kamihime? The answer is the latter, and therefore that's what you need to build your team around.

naenae
03-05-2017, 08:33 PM
Starting SSR weapon should be rather low on the list of priorities influencing hero decision. Your team element is going to be a more important factor influencing the choice of main-hand weapon. Likewise, choice of hero will be dependent on what capabilities your team is missing, especially healing and debuffs. Not to mention an active player will be accruing SSR weapons at a rate of 1 every 1.5 weeks anyway.

Another way to think of it is: which are more difficult to acquire, SSR weapons or the right combination of SR+ kamihime? The answer is the latter, and therefore that's what you need to build your team around.

Only 1.5 weeks? I only have 4 ssr weapons. Two dark glaives, one thunder sword, and a thunder hammer. Where oh where could my beautiful Amon be? Canoodling with others is my guess I didn't even have time to pick up Apoc, late start

sanahtlig
03-05-2017, 09:11 PM
Generally speaking though I don't suggest ANY damage soul to start with. You only need three things for the most difficult fights in the game - healing, afflictions, and buffs. Andro brings healing, Mordred brings afflictions, and IMO Arthur is the best for buffs/defense.

The damage from Sieg is uniquely bad because it only works on bosses that rage and then stun, so he's actually trash for running missions. That's also why Solomon is considered terrible - he offers nothing but mediocre damage and usually thats what you need the least to win fights.
Few problems here:

Arthur is purely offensive. She has no defensive skills.
Offense wins fights, and that's why many fights have a minimum recommended attack power. Consider a common scenario: several waves of 3x trash mobs followed by a boss. Against trash, priority #1 is whittling down their numbers so you have 1-2 mobs hitting you instead of 3. Good offense = straight damage mitigation. Priority #2 is killing the last two before they get a painful overdrive skill off. Again, good offense mitigates damage. Against a formidable boss, your goal is to not let the boss get off an overdrive skill during rage, because those moves often do massive damage + buffs/debuffs. Ideally, that means being able to get the boss from 100% rage to stun in 1 round. Again, that requires strong offense.
Defense without offense is risky. RNG is always your enemy because you can't anticipate it. 3 mobs alive means 3 chances for a triple attack, potentially on the same target. A triple attack from a powerful boss is almost always dangerous. Debuffs miss. The longer the fight drags on the greater the chance something will go wrong. Mordred is a good choice for sure, and Andromeda has Resurrection to recover from mishaps. But that just lowers the offensive bar a bit. Without sufficient offense you'll still lose, especially since healing is capped and damage is not.

VortexMagus
03-05-2017, 10:34 PM
Few problems here:

Arthur is purely offensive. She has no defensive skills.
Offense wins fights, and that's why many fights have a minimum recommended attack power. Consider a common scenario: several waves of 3x trash mobs followed by a boss. Against trash, priority #1 is whittling down their numbers so you have 1-2 mobs hitting you instead of 3. Good offense = straight damage mitigation. Priority #2 is killing the last two before they get a painful overdrive skill off. Again, good offense mitigates damage. Against a formidable boss, your goal is to not let the boss get off an overdrive skill during rage, because those moves often do massive damage + buffs/debuffs. Ideally, that means being able to get the boss from 100% rage to stun in 1 round. Again, that requires strong offense.
Defense without offense is risky. RNG is always your enemy because you can't anticipate it. 3 mobs alive means 3 chances for a triple attack, potentially on the same target. A triple attack from a powerful boss is almost always dangerous. Debuffs miss. The longer the fight drags on the greater the chance something will go wrong. Mordred is a good choice for sure, and Andromeda has Resurrection to recover from mishaps. But that just lowers the offensive bar a bit. Without sufficient offense you'll still lose, especially since healing is capped and damage is not.


1) You're right, Arthur is attack buffs. My bad. I'm thinking of Joan of Arc.

2) These scenarios seem unrealistic. Unless you're willing to drop mad cash, and max out a team of SSR hime/SSR weapons, you're not gonna have a good time trying to damage down a team of 3 tanky trash mobs before they overdrive you. I'm at 20k total team damage right now and there are still maps where I can't clear trash mobs efficiently in 1-2 turns, even with the stacking damage bonuses from double apocalypse + a fire team. And we haven't even gotten the really difficult maps yet.

Same with the tougher bosses. You're better off running someone with a mitigation skill to block their big overdrive spike and multiple healers to keep up your team than to rely on doing ten million damage every single cycle with skills to take them from 0 to rage and then rage to stun instantly every time.

3) It's true that healing is capped, but damage is also capped by money - unless you're willing to wallet warrior the shit out of this game, half your team is probably gonna be R/SR hime without ideal skills or the perfect element set and that's gonna put a FAR greater cap on your damage potential than your heroic soul choice. Yeah, its true that with enough damage you could probably bull through literally any fight, but if you're looking for the most cost effectiveness and early game value I wouldn't go any of the pure offensive heroic souls at all. Once you get to level 50 and have a choice of a second one, that's a different story.

Aidoru
03-05-2017, 10:34 PM
I disagree about not starting with a offensive type soul. I've said it before but Nike is more than get you through current level content, Andromeda is just overkill as it stands. I would only bother to get her if you really want a full element party and don't have a healer of your current element. Going Arthur would be easiest as she has the best all-round damage and killing enemies is by far safer than trying to play defensive and heal. No need to worry about overdrive meters and healing when the enemy is already dead.

"Oh but what about raid bosses?"

They're irrelevant since you don't need to solo them and by the time you can solo them, you should already have enough Soul P for 2 or 3 Legendaries.

sanahtlig
03-05-2017, 10:45 PM
2) These scenarios seem unrealistic. Unless you're willing to drop mad cash, and max out a team of SSR hime/SSR weapons, you're not gonna have a good time trying to damage down a team of 3 tanky trash mobs before they overdrive you.
Have you done Expert Banquet of Angels today? That's a perfect example of mobs with high attack power and low HP/defense. Burning down one of them in a single round is quite easy. If you leave them all up, they HURT. Their overdrive is also very strong. You don't want to tank that, especially two at once.


3) It's true that healing is capped, but damage is also capped by money - unless you're willing to wallet warrior the shit out of this game, half your team is probably gonna be R/SR hime without ideal skills or the perfect element set and that's gonna put a FAR greater cap on your damage potential than your heroic soul choice.
Gawain (attack up + defense down) nearly doubled my damage. True story. And she's not even a legendary. Stacking the right buffs and debuffs yields immense synergy.

President Ramu
03-05-2017, 11:11 PM
I never played the DMM version and I have no idea how the later content will go, but I play multiple accounts in this version and I've rerolled and played through levels 1-30 enough times to be a Union all by myself, all with different team setups. As such, I feel I can speak fairly confidently about what's required with what we have at the moment.

For the present game and the Event that just passed, literally any garbage team with enough health not to get 1-shot and a damage source will do. My first two accounts, 1 with a (Prereg) Beelzebub, Artemis, and Brynhildr and the other a reroll with Dark Amon and Tyr, could both easily do the Expert Event with no problems whatsoever at about 14k power. Neither have any real elemental focus (in terms of weapon grid farming) or a lot of thought put into them, they're just the first two accounts I had that got a decent roll so I leveled them up. They can also both solo Standard and Expert raids, although it takes a while because Expert has so much HP. It's really just me sitting there with autoattack on and waiting for cooldowns though, there's nothing "dangerous" about them at all.

In the teams I've rerolled since then I mostly just do the level 1 to 30 run to see if I get something good on the second 3000 jewel gacha and the SR ticket, but they're not fancy either. Usually just two SRs of the element I wanted to experiment with or an SSR+SR if I'm lucky. Again, within 48 hours and no time to farm up a weapon grid or anything special, they can get to 13k and be good enough to solo a Standard raid or get "babysat" through an Expert raid if I open it with one of my stronger accounts.

If any trash team can solo Expert Raids and runs within 3-4 days and literally no weapon grid farming, I can't see how (aside from efficiency of course) it's completely detrimental to pick whatever you want. You could of course be doing the content *faster*, but seeing as the stamina regenerates so slowly that isn't really the worst problem to have.

sanahtlig
03-05-2017, 11:39 PM
If any trash team can solo Expert Raids and runs within 3-4 days and literally no weapon grid farming, I can't see how (aside from efficiency of course) it's completely detrimental to pick whatever you want. You could of course be doing the content *faster*, but seeing as the stamina regenerates so slowly that isn't really the worst problem to have.
Early game should be balanced differently than endgame. In addition, it doesn't sound like you ran with a standard setup: a motley crew of SRs and Rs. These games are designed to have a low barrier to entry, then ramp up the difficulty over time to induce players to pay to overcome each hurdle they encounter. You used an exploit to overcome one of those hurdles--access to stronger characters with better stats and better skills--but presumably the early game is balanced assuming you DON'T do that. Elemental matching only pays dividends with investment. In early game, it's actually more effective just to switch up your team / main-hand weapon to counter the element of whatever enemy you're facing, especially if you don't have access to strong eidolon effects.

Also, Ultimate difficulty should be coming up in Event 3 (2 weeks). I doubt it will be trivial.

President Ramu
03-05-2017, 11:47 PM
Early game should be balanced differently than endgame. In addition, it doesn't sound like you ran with a standard setup: a motley crowd of SRs and Rs. These games are designed to have a low barrier to entry, then ramp up the difficulty over time to induce players to pay to overcome each hurdle they encounter. You used an exploit to overcome one of those hurdles--access to stronger characters with better stats and better skills--but presumably the early game is balanced assuming you DON'T do that. Elemental matching only pays dividends with investment. In early game, it's actually more effective just to switch up your team / main-hand weapon to counter the element of whatever enemy you're facing, especially if you don't have access to strong eidolon effects.

Also, Ultimate difficulty should be coming up in Event 3 (2 weeks). I doubt it will be trivial.

I literally never use Rs, I don't want them getting their gross peasant stats near my better characters.

Additionally, if you'll recall the thing I said in the post you just quoted, **the first two teams I created had no such assistance**. I had a Beelzebub from the pre-reg and the rest was all just whatever happened. That team can still crush the Event without any trouble, and I never even bothered farming a decent weapon grid for it. If I had put time into any of the given teams rather than just throwing them away when I got bored with them, they'd be exponentially stronger. And yet they still currently meet or exceed the needs of the content we have.

By the time the early game transitions into the late game a player will have had more chances at the gacha, more event equipment, and more Legendary Souls unlocked. But in the conversation I jumped into you're talking like if someone picks the wrong first Legendary they might as well throw away their account. I'm using the example of "literally any trash team being usable" to show people that no, it really isn't that big a deal and it probably won't be for some time yet.

Unregistered
03-06-2017, 12:03 AM
The assumed average team is lower than you'd think. 15% for a given draw to be SR rarity aside, prior to adding Belobog, there's 7 kamihime weapons, 33 non-kamihime weapons, and 26 eidolon in SR. A new player is assumed to be running story girls, R's, and maybe 1 SR kamihime in the first week. A new player is also assumed to not have the familiarity with the system that'd come from already playing for a week or two.

sanahtlig
03-06-2017, 12:09 AM
Additionally, if you'll recall the thing I said in the post you just quoted, **the first two teams I created had no such assistance**. I had a Beelzebub from the pre-reg and the rest was all just whatever happened.

I apologize. I don't know what a 'Beezlebub' is since I've never encountered it in-game (and therefore had no need to know what it is). But 3 SRs is still far and beyond what a random roll will typically get you. Did you really roll a double SSR team on your second roll?


By the time the early game transitions into the late game a player will have had more chances at the gacha
I'm somewhat skeptical that the end result of these jewel rolls will be multiple SSRs. The game's revenue stream relies on that not being the case.

President Ramu
03-06-2017, 12:53 AM
The assumed average team is lower than you'd think. 15% for a given draw to be SR rarity aside, prior to adding Belobog, there's 7 kamihime weapons, 33 non-kamihime weapons, and 26 eidolon in SR. A new player is assumed to be running story girls, R's, and maybe 1 SR kamihime in the first week. A new player is also assumed to not have the familiarity with the system that'd come from already playing for a week or two.

You get a guaranteed SR from the 3rd panel prize, and you'd have to be truly unlucky to get none from the first two jewel gacha pulls. It's of course possible, but super unlikely. Plus of course the 4 guaranteed SRs that you get just from regular quest progression (Nike, Amon, Cybele and Baal).

I'm not saying everyone's going to pull a Sol+Tyr every time, but you can clearly put together a workable team even if you just used whatever the game gives you and slot in Nike as a healer in a pinch.

That's all I was trying to get across up there. I reroll constantly, but I dont hold out for multiple SSRs when I'm just trying something out. Any two SRs in the same element are usually enough for me, and I didn't even have that on my first account. Beelzebub carried that team on her back all the way through the first event, even with no decent Eidolon that you couldn't get from Material exchange, and that team is only slightly weaker than my Amon+Tyr death squad.

- - - Updated - - -


I apologize. I don't know what a 'Beezlebub' is since I've never encountered it in-game (and therefore had no need to know what it is). But 3 SRs is still far and beyond what a random roll will typically get you. Did you really roll a double SSR team on your second roll?


I'm somewhat skeptical that the end result of these jewel rolls will be multiple SSRs. The game's revenue stream relies on that not being the case.

Ugh, I just lost my previous reply somewhere so this one's gonna be a bit brief.

http://xn--hckqz0e9cygq471ahu9b.xn--wiki-4i9hs14f.com/index.php?%E3%83%99%E3%83%AB%E3%82%BC%E3%83%96%E3% 83%96

Basically, your first Legendary Soul is important from a time/effort standpoint, but nowhere near a huge deal. Whatever garbage Gacha-sama blesses you with is more than enough to clear Raids and Events as long as you put in some effort farming to highlight their strengths, but you'll always be able to get to a point where you can solo Expert and get that weapon grid filled out within a week. Which means you can farm the Expert level Events (for the near future), which means you can always hit some tier of viable while maintaining your free player status.

By the time harder content rolls around you'll be able to unlock a second or third Legendary Soul, and you'll have a much better idea of what works with what you've been given. But the ceiling on what's possible with what you have isn't going to change a whole hell of a lot based on which Legendary you pick first, as it's really just a matter of having enough health not to die while you wait for your healer's cooldown at the moment.

sanahtlig
03-06-2017, 10:16 AM
You get a guaranteed SR from the 3rd panel prize
I think that's a guaranteed SR WEAPON. Not a guaranteed SR kamihime. An important distinction.

Yolodesu
03-06-2017, 10:37 AM
I think that's a guaranteed SR WEAPON. Not a guaranteed SR kamihime. An important distinction.

nah guaranteed SR+. I got an eidolon from it. I assume you can get sr or ssr kamihime if you're lucky.

Mattress
03-06-2017, 10:37 AM
I think that's a guaranteed SR WEAPON. Not a guaranteed SR kamihime. An important distinction.


I found a shitty SR Eidolon in that ticket, just for saying. :(

Dragonlich
03-08-2017, 11:38 PM
The assumed average team is lower than you'd think. 15% for a given draw to be SR rarity aside, prior to adding Belobog, there's 7 kamihime weapons, 33 non-kamihime weapons, and 26 eidolon in SR. A new player is assumed to be running story girls, R's, and maybe 1 SR kamihime in the first week. A new player is also assumed to not have the familiarity with the system that'd come from already playing for a week or two.

I am playing without rerolls.
For now - lvl 42 - I will have at the end of this week: 3 SSR eidolons (2 event +1 preorder) 2 SSR weapons (events).
My team have only SR (1 Dark, 1 Light, 1 Water, 1 Thunder, 2 Fire and 2 Wind) and R Himes, no SSR from jewel and NG rolls.
So for now I just wait for the fire event to make a good R-based fire team. Or check some luck with gems gatcha for the R Dark or Light.

And yes, it's fun to read about easyness of the game from the great cheaters :)

jazz154
03-09-2017, 12:05 AM
I am playing without rerolls.
For now - lvl 42 - I will have at the end of this week: 3 SSR eidolons (2 event +1 preorder) 2 SSR weapons (events).
My team have only SR (1 Dark, 1 Light, 1 Water, 1 Thunder, 2 Fire and 2 Wind) and R Himes, no SSR from jewel and NG rolls.
So for now I just wait for the fire event to make a good R-based fire team. Or check some luck with gems gatcha for the R Dark or Light.

And yes, it's fun to read about easyness of the game from the great cheaters :)

Yeah, average team is not something composed of SSR or only SR of single element. I personally have 2 SSR(gaia and shiva) and 7 SR but I never bothered with rerolling (who have time for this? also it's super boring) I got my first SSR on second 3k jewels roll and I know I was lucky since many people in my union don't even have full team of SR.

Well back to the topic: I went for Mordred and I am really happy with her. Her first skill applies A LOT of different debuffs and paired with Asmunds debuff to the attack rate of enemy it makes every fight really safe and easy.

dreadpin
03-09-2017, 12:44 AM
Yeah, average team is not something composed of SSR or only SR of single element. I personally have 2 SSR(gaia and shiva) and 7 SR but I never bothered with rerolling (who have time for this? also it's super boring) I got my first SSR on second 3k jewels roll and I know I was lucky since many people in my union don't even have full team of SR.

Well back to the topic: I went for Mordred and I am really happy with her. Her first skill applies A LOT of different debuffs and paired with Asmunds debuff to the attack rate of enemy it makes every fight really safe and easy.

Mordred is awesome, until u fight with a high affliction resistance boss....

CBW
03-09-2017, 01:47 AM
The assumed average team is lower than you'd think. 15% for a given draw to be SR rarity aside, prior to adding Belobog, there's 7 kamihime weapons, 33 non-kamihime weapons, and 26 eidolon in SR. A new player is assumed to be running story girls, R's, and maybe 1 SR kamihime in the first week. A new player is also assumed to not have the familiarity with the system that'd come from already playing for a week or two.
I still haven't gotten any SSR drop outside the events, and started the day Apocalypse was released but was able to master the event in a couple days. All those cheap SR weapons and enhance drops will make any average team good post haste.

jazz154
03-09-2017, 05:20 AM
Mordred is awesome, until u fight with a high affliction resistance boss....

So like... wind raid boss? Other than that I can't really think about anything else that have high resistance to debuffs.

ReduxRewrite
03-09-2017, 08:38 AM
Thoughts on Joan Arch? Was building a pure light team and was looking at her. She seemed quite good for my needs. Thoughts? (unless I screwed up and she ISNT a light).

Nitewolf
03-09-2017, 08:57 AM
Thoughts on Joan Arch? Was building a pure light team and was looking at her. She seemed quite good for my needs. Thoughts? (unless I screwed up and she ISNT a light).

She is whatever the element of the weapon you give her is. That goes for all Spirits

President Ramu
03-09-2017, 09:00 AM
Thoughts on Joan Arch? Was building a pure light team and was looking at her. She seemed quite good for my needs. Thoughts? (unless I screwed up and she ISNT a light).

I've never used her, but from what other players have said she's trash. I play Solomon though, so clearly I'm not a reliable narrator.

Unregistered
03-09-2017, 09:11 AM
She is whatever the element of the weapon you give her is. That goes for all Spirits

I FINALLY figured that out no joke, five minutes before coming back here to edit my post! XD

Yolodesu
03-09-2017, 09:16 AM
Thoughts on Joan Arch? Was building a pure light team and was looking at her. She seemed quite good for my needs. Thoughts? (unless I screwed up and she ISNT a light).

As said before souls element depends of your main weapon.

Personally i wouldnt go for Joan. If you want a "tanky" soul, Andromeda is better imo (strong heal + still a good def spell to avoid burst + a priceless rez). + If you have a light team maybe you have Sol? If so dont know if her ATK debuff stack with Joan's.

If you already have 2 healers in your team (or a tank/heal combo) you'd better go for a dps soul
-Mordred would be really good considering the lack of debuff a light team has
-Arthur is always good
-Siegfried as a raid boss killer
-If you go for Solomon and have Artemis in your team, not sure if their ability buff stack together (i know it doesnt stack if Merlin's buff)

After a quick verification :


Lus75 - 02/07/2017
Q: Why do some buffs stack and not others?
A: Each buff and debuff in this game has a hidden type attached to them.

For simplicity sake, we will call each hidden type Type A/B/C/Stacking/Summon.
Type: A/B and Summon are very commonly used.
Type: C, namely Sol's and Zephyrus' attack debuff and Cthulu's def debuff.
Type: Stacking, currently only the R rarity KH Caspiel possess such type of debuff.
(Zephyrus, Cthulu and Caspiel are not available at launch.)

Simply put, Different type of buffs and debuffs WILL STACK while same type of buffs and debuffs WILL NOT STACK.

jazz154
03-09-2017, 09:57 AM
I've never used her, but from what other players have said she's trash. I play Solomon though, so clearly I'm not a reliable narrator.

I wouldn't call her trash (unlike Solomon). If you don't have anyone to buff you def and apply atk debuff on enemy she might do just well. But like person before me said, light lacks debuffs so mordred might be better.

President Ramu
03-09-2017, 10:18 AM
I wouldn't call her trash (unlike Solomon). If you don't have anyone to buff you def and apply atk debuff on enemy she might do just well. But like person before me said, light lacks debuffs so mordred might be better.

I finally quit rerolling yesterday and committed to a Gaia team I had opened but left lingering, fully intending to stop mucking around and just play like a sane person. I got to the second gacha this morning and friggin' Shiva popped out of it. RNGesus is hilarious.

And yet I still fully intend to fulltime Solomon on this superteam because much like the future, I refuse to change.

Aidoru
03-09-2017, 10:36 AM
Not sure why people keep calling Siegfried the raid boss killer when she's not. It's not that she's the best at it, it's that that's all she's good for, enemies with mode meters, assuming you don't kill them in 1 turn, which means basically only raid bosses and a few minor stages at this point. Mordred by far is the stronger soul when it comes to raid bosses, the only one Siegfried 'might' have a chance at being better at is Wind Disaster since she has high affliction resist but even then Arthur would probably still be better than her. Heck, Solomon might even be better than her as well. Unless Siegfried's assist skill has some ridiculously high bonus multiplier or something I don't know about.

President Ramu
03-09-2017, 10:44 AM
Not sure why people keep calling Siegfried the raid boss killer when she's not. It's not that she's the best at it, it's that that's all she's good for, enemies with mode meters, assuming you don't kill them in 1 turn, which means basically only raid bosses and a few minor stages at this point. Mordred by far is the stronger soul when it comes to raid bosses, the only one Siegfried 'might' have a chance at being better at is Wind Disaster since she has high affliction resist but even then Arthur would probably still be better than her as well. Heck, Solomon might even be better than her as well. Unless Siegfried's assist skill has some ridiculously high bonus multiplier or something I don't know about.

I'm a devout worshipper at the Church of Mortred, but I can definitely see an issue in that her damage is great at the moment, but it's capped as that's the most it's going to do. Siegfried's burst damage only increases with better equipment, so while over time Mortred *right now* does more Siegfried seems to have better potential.

Also, you can only have one set of status effects on the Raid boss at any given time. If there's another Mortred on your Raid squad (pretending we play in groups for the moment), any additional Mortreds are just sitting there. But multiple Siegfrieds would never go out of style.

Aidoru
03-09-2017, 10:54 AM
I'm a devout worshipper at the Church of Mortred, but I can definitely see an issue in that her damage is great at the moment, but it's capped as that's the most it's going to do. Siegfried's burst damage only increases with better equipment, so while over time Mortred *right now* does more Siegfried seems to have better potential.

Also, you can only have one set of status effects on the Raid boss at any given time. If there's another Mortred on your Raid squad (pretending we play in groups for the moment), any additional Mortreds are just sitting there. But multiple Siegfrieds would never go out of style.

The problem there is that the others I mentioned still are better than her and don't have to deal with the capped damage of her faults. While Solomon will most likely be kicked to the bottom when everyone has high elemental skill atk weapons, I can still see Arthur still out damaging Siegfried the majority of the time.

The multiple Mordreds is a good point, I usually join early so I'm usually the one applying the debuffs so I forget sometimes.

Unregistered
03-09-2017, 11:09 AM
Joan's attack debuff is -20%/A-frame. So it would stack with Sol's -20%/C-frame, but not Belobog's -15%/A-frame, or Urania's A-frame atk debuff. I'm not going to assume that you have Sol. The -40% damage cut would probably be more desirable later, if enemy design changes up? Which is really the main issue with the defender type in the state we're at; we've yet to have a situation that really calls for a damage cut skill.
As it is right now, Joan's biggest appeal is the atk debuff, which plays up better when you have B or C-frame debuffs instead of A-frame elsewhere (Cybele's Mistletoe Drain being an example of B-frame). Of course, that means you can just pick it up to be used as an extra skill on a different soul sooner or later.

sanahtlig
03-09-2017, 11:23 AM
Also, you can only have one set of status effects on the Raid boss at any given time. If there's another Mortred on your Raid squad (pretending we play in groups for the moment), any additional Mortreds are just sitting there. But multiple Siegfrieds would never go out of style.
No, Siegfried has the same issue. What happens when one Siegfried Bursts on a stunned raid boss? Stun will break, gimping the Burst damage of any subsequent Siegfrieds. DMM veterans have said this happens even in Ragnarok difficulty. This is a fundamental mechanics issue stemming from stun duration being directly tied to damage received.

Siegfried likely shines in certain Advent battles where a boss with a ton of HP has a very nasty overdrive ability (think Phoenix but with a much higher regen rate). She'd be able to finish a boss in a single burst that perhaps other compositions couldn't.

President Ramu
03-09-2017, 12:04 PM
No, Siegfried has the same issue. What happens when one Siegfried bursts on a stunned raid boss? Stun will break, gimping the burst damage of any subsequent Siegfrieds. DMM veterans have said this happens even in Ragnarok difficulty. This is a fundamental mechanics issue stemming from stun duration being directly tied to damage received.


Bursting on a stun is an enormous waste.

Stun status gives an innate chance to multi-attack, you never burst when they're stunned. You use your skill and try to get as many multis in as possible. You do considerably more damage with even 2 "normal" attacks, let alone 3-4.

Edit: Oh, I see. When I said "burst damage" earlier I didn't mean actual capital B Burst, I mean instant damage like in everywhere else that's not this game.

sanahtlig
03-09-2017, 12:31 PM
Bursting on a stun is an enormous waste.

Stun status gives an innate chance to multi-attack, you never burst when they're stunned. You use your skill and try to get as many multis in as possible. You do considerably more damage with even 2 "normal" attacks, let alone 3-4.

Edit: Oh, I see. When I said "burst damage" earlier I didn't mean actual capital B Burst, I mean instant damage like in everywhere else that's not this game.
No, you're still not getting it. Siegfried has an active skill that multiplies the next attack's damage on a stunned target (4x for a normal attack, 3.5x for a Burst attack). So optimal use of Siegfried (assuming a fully limit-breaked SSR main-hand weapon) requires timing the Burst so it lands while the enemy is stunned. But if another Siegfried Bursts first, the enemy will instantly recover from Stun, nullifying Siegfried's DPS advantage.

President Ramu
03-09-2017, 03:30 PM
No, you're still not getting it. Siegfried has an active skill that multiplies the next attack's damage on a stunned target (4x for a normal attack, 3.5x for a Burst attack). So optimal use of Siegfried (assuming a fully limit-breaked SSR main-hand weapon) requires timing the Burst so it lands while the enemy is stunned. But if another Siegfried Bursts first, the enemy will instantly recover from Stun, nullifying Siegfried's DPS advantage.

I've played Siegfried since the first week and you don't even know what all the available characters are, don't talk down to me.

Optimal use of the stun damage up, as I JUST SAID, is on a normal multi-hit attack, NOT A BURST. The damage is HIGHER ON THE REGULAR ATTACK.

It's not even close. You have no idea what you're talking about.

sanahtlig
03-09-2017, 03:38 PM
I've played Siegfried since the first week and you don't even know what all the available characters are, don't talk down to me.

Optimal use of the stun damage up, as I JUST SAID, is on a normal multi-hit attack, NOT A BURST. The damage is HIGHER ON THE REGULAR ATTACK.

It's not even close. You have no idea what you're talking about.
Right, and now this is suddenly an ego contest to you. Believe whatever you want. For the record, ad hominem attacks don't support your arguments. They just make you look petulant and ignorant.

Yolodesu
03-09-2017, 04:16 PM
https://youtu.be/GkSssslNx6g

But yeah honestly i tried to figure out what is best between buffing auto-atk and burst, and i'm using it on burst now. The thing is, if your auto-atk doesnt multihit you loose a bunch of damage.

What i usually do when i don't have burst time is auto-atk alone on first stun, and dragon blood+burst on the second.
If you see you wont have enough time to build a burst bar, just buff auto-atk and pray for a multihit.

sanahtlig
03-09-2017, 04:46 PM
But yeah honestly i tried to figure out what is best between buffing auto-atk and burst, and i'm using it on burst now. The thing is, if your auto-atk doesnt multihit you loose a bunch of damage.

What i usually do when i don't have burst time is auto-atk alone on first stun, and dragon blood+burst on the second.
If you see you wont have enough time to build a burst bar, just buff auto-atk and pray for a multihit.
I did some theorycrafting in the relevant tab of this spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PhfOAQk6EyK5l33ux_C4T-cexVIQp6D-_Hbd-OO1OmQ/edit#gid=46895229). Normal attack (turn 1) then Dragon Blood + Burst (turn 2) does more damage than Dragon Blood + Normal attack then Burst (turn 2), even if the normal attack triple-hits. Note that, for the purposes of the analysis, the attack that doesn't use Dragon Blood could have occurred before, after, or during stun. This does NOT yet factor in the increase to party damage resulting from the increased chance of multi-attacks during stun (a phase which would be somewhat shortened by using Burst during Stun). That analysis would require precise knowledge of the rate of multi-attacks: unbuffed, during stun, and during stun with Siegfried's passive applied. But on the other hand, holding a Burst until Stun is over is probably also a bad idea, since then one would likely want to hold it until the next Rage phase is reached.

President Ramu
03-09-2017, 07:20 PM
Right, and now this is suddenly an ego contest to you. Believe whatever you want. For the record, ad hominem attacks don't support your arguments. They just make you look petulant and ignorant.

Your pseudo-intellectual bullshit is pointless if you literally dont know the basics of the game. You talk about all this theory and spreadsheets but then you get basic things wrong and *try to correct people with actual experience*. That just makes you questionable across the board.

In regard to the tests above, clearly one should be planning out their cool downs and team comp to have multi-hit and normal attack increasing skills (Like Brynhildr and the Fire Dragoon) prepared for the stun. And making sure to use to get Burst ready for eliminating the Rage meter.

You know, like a good player who actually knows what they're doing would.

jaimelesmelllons
03-12-2017, 10:29 AM
which legendary soul should i go for second? got arthur as my first one and have sol in team so i was thinking of skipping andromeda for the time being.

Unregistered
03-12-2017, 11:16 AM
What do you have to work with? Souls are usually most impactful by filling in for some hole(s) in a composition. Mordred's probably the most universal choice remaining with Arthur/healing already covered, but hey, maybe you already have ailments too, who knows.

jaimelesmelllons
03-12-2017, 11:44 AM
i got satan+sol+art+mephisto.got some debuffs on satan/mephisto/sol.

Abu
03-12-2017, 09:51 PM
i got satan+sol+art+mephisto.got some debuffs on satan/mephisto/sol.

Have you considered Siegfried? A bit of a niche soul, but def a boss killer. Just using Tyr for me usually makes bosses go down quick when stunned, adding Siegfried is definitely going to be priority after my first. Unfortunately I've been using my maxed Granular Ale for this event and haven't been working on soul exp toward Mordred. Yes, some of us are still stuck with elite souls

NCO
03-12-2017, 10:18 PM
Have you considered Siegfried? A bit of a niche soul, but def a boss killer. Just using Tyr for me usually makes bosses go down quick when stunned, adding Siegfried is definitely going to be priority after my first. Unfortunately I've been using my maxed Granular Ale for this event and haven't been working on soul exp toward Mordred. Yes, some of us are still stuck with elite souls

I was also considering the same thing, however,while it is awesome to have both tyr and sieg for solo runs, in raids with other players you wont have time to active both before the stun runs out

jaimelesmelllons
03-13-2017, 07:30 AM
considering my team comp i was thinking on getting either sieg or d'art since both are pretty useful in their own ways. should i consider getting d'art first since arthur already provides good enough dmg to comfortably do raids and even get some mvps/vice mvps?

Abu
03-13-2017, 07:47 AM
considering my team comp i was thinking on getting either sieg or d'art since both are pretty useful in their own ways. should i consider getting d'art first since arthur already provides good enough dmg to comfortably do raids and even get some mvps/vice mvps?

The billy/granular/d'art line is better for farming materials. The snatch chances from what I could tell between two accounts is high just with granular ale. If you're already placing mvp/vmvp I would say go with D'art for farming.

KamiPro Soul
03-13-2017, 08:54 AM
My collection till today :

Kamihime:

SR Rank - 1. Beelzebub (In party)
2. Amon (In party)
3. Brynhildr (In party)
4. Nike (In party)
5. Baal (In party)
6. Artemis (In party)
7. Belphegor
8. Cybele

R Rank - 1. Ignis
2. Astaroth
3. Indra

Soul :

Standard - All except BEOWULF and BILLY THE KID

Elite - GAWAIN and ASMUND

Legendary - None

I have about 440 Soul Points and my first target legendary soul is ARTHUR.

I want help from you guys what should I do next to do better in the game. I'm lvl. 27 with Atk. 12953.

My second target soul is JOAN OF ARC. Should I continue with this plan?

Help me with suggestions.

Abu
03-13-2017, 10:18 AM
My collection till today :

Kamihime:

SR Rank - 1. Beelzebub (In party)
2. Amon (In party)
3. Brynhildr (In party)
4. Nike (In party)
5. Baal (In party)
6. Artemis (In party)
7. Belphegor
8. Cybele

R Rank - 1. Ignis
2. Astaroth
3. Indra

Soul :

Standard - All except BEOWULF and BILLY THE KID

Elite - GAWAIN and ASMUND

Legendary - None

I have about 440 Soul Points and my first target legendary soul is ARTHUR.

I want help from you guys what should I do next to do better in the game. I'm lvl. 27 with Atk. 12953.

My second target soul is JOAN OF ARC. Should I continue with this plan?

Help me with suggestions.

Beelze/Amon/Bryn/Astaroth with as many apoc and echidna friends as you can get. I'd suggest leveling and limit breaking as many r dark and fire weapons as possible as well for higher attack until you can get more sr+of the same elements. Them being dark/fire also increases synergy with kami skills. I'd scrap the joan idea though, personally, and go with D'art for snatch, increased drops on kami limit break materials would be helpful. Even a lot of the lower ones can be exchanged in the shop for higher tiered mats.

VortexMagus
03-13-2017, 11:37 AM
Your team lacks in afflictions. Baal is better for clearing trash but I'd swap in Cybele for bosses you're having trouble against.

If you're having trouble beating the 30 ap stuff then I'd suggest going for Mordred after Arthur. If you're having a fairly easy time with the 30 ap stuff I'd suggest going to D'Art for better farming.

dreadpin
03-14-2017, 02:31 PM
will there be a new list of souls release?

Aidoru
03-14-2017, 02:45 PM
will there be a new list of souls release?

There are 3 more sets (so 9 more souls) to be released in the future. The legendaries would be Hercules (Axe/Bow), Morgan (Staff/Arcane), and Shingen (Spear/Bow), each having a elite and standard tier as well.

AgentFakku
03-15-2017, 01:37 PM
I pick Gawain just for her looks

though, she looks like Lancelot and Adele - lol same face syndrome