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View Full Version : Preferred Eidolon Buffs (DMG calculator included)



sanahtlig
04-14-2017, 09:01 AM
Damage calculator (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PhfOAQk6EyK5l33ux_C4T-cexVIQp6D-_Hbd-OO1OmQ/edit#gid=848984711) (Eidolon buffs comparison tab)
You can change the numbers with a grey background to suit your team configuration by downloading your own copy of the spreadsheet.

The eidolons buffs being compared are:
+40% elemental DMG, dual element (first 3 event eidolons)
+40% character ATK/+20% HP, single element (e.g., Jormugand)
+90% character ATK if team contains characters of three elements, single element (e.g., Lilium)
+45% elemental DMG, single element (e.g., Reiki)

Since you can bring two eidolons, I also included the combination of a character ATK and elemental DMG buff, which has a degree of synergy.

Note that the poll doesn't include the last two options because they're not currently available in the Nutaku version and will not be available for a long time.

CBW
04-14-2017, 12:50 PM
Granted I can only do it with lightning so far, but 40% HP boost goes miles towards survival. I think Andromeda capped out around 7800 HP on the raid.

jazz154
04-14-2017, 12:58 PM
Well, I prefer to take Jormugandr if I have to fight something that have chance to kill me with 2 triple attacks, but I usually end up taking whatever is available since I let almost anyone on my friend list.
Am I correct thinking that +x% elemental dmg is better choice than +x% character dmg if you want to deal more damage?

Also what's the point of this poll? To see what people prefer to take?

Aidoru
04-14-2017, 01:17 PM
Granted I can only do it with lightning so far, but 40% HP boost goes miles towards survival. I think Andromeda capped out around 7800 HP on the raid.

You get HP as your rank up. Assuming there is no rank cap, as long as you keep ranking up, your HP will only keep increasing. I'm not sure if it applies towards all characters or just the Soul though, never paid much attention.

Regardless, I prefer full offense unless the enemies require a certain HP threshold. I would rather take a Element ATK↑ and Burst↑ eidolon than a ATK/HP one. Though I don't think there is one for light yet.

Also gatcha eidolons have higher values than what's listed in the poll.

sanahtlig
04-14-2017, 01:26 PM
Am I correct thinking that +x% elemental dmg is better choice than +x% character dmg if you want to deal more damage?
In general, but not always. At low assault skill this isn't true.


Also what's the point of this poll? To see what people prefer to take?
I'm curious about what's popular and therefore more likely to net me additional friends and/or extra daily gold.


I would rather take a Element ATK↑ and Burst↑ eidolon than a ATK/HP one.
Can you provide an example?

Aidoru
04-14-2017, 01:35 PM
Can you provide an example?

Typhon and Ifrit

Upcoming Medusa has a pretty unusual passive buff as well.

Unregistered
04-14-2017, 01:47 PM
Medusa's also +burst, right?

Not too far away will be Rahab introducing +ability damage.
And then in the distant future Jack Frost will introduce +element resistance; free 10% damage cut against the corresponding element, I believe.

sanahtlig
04-14-2017, 01:59 PM
Typhon and Ifrit

Upcoming Medusa has a pretty unusual passive buff as well.
1) Those are character ATK buffs, not elemental DMG buffs.
2) Burst streak bonus seems pretty terrible, as it only applies to a small fraction of your overall damage. So you end up with a weaker character attack bonus and a burst streak bonus that doesn't even make up for the 10% character attack you lose.

Aidoru
04-14-2017, 02:08 PM
There is no damage loss when pitting it against HP.

sanahtlig
04-14-2017, 02:12 PM
There is no damage loss when pitting it against HP.
I have no idea what this sentence means.

Aidoru
04-14-2017, 02:15 PM
I have no idea what this sentence means.

ATK↑/Burst Streak DMG↑ compared to a ATK↑/HP↑ buff. There is no damage loss.

CBW
04-14-2017, 02:27 PM
ATK↑/Burst Streak DMG↑ compared to a ATK↑/HP↑ buff. There is no damage loss.
Depends where you are in the game, honestly. I joined a lot of raids last week where everyone was knocked out. +Burst wouldn't have done them any good.

Aidoru
04-14-2017, 02:39 PM
Depends where you are in the game, honestly. I joined a lot of raids last week where everyone was knocked out. +Burst wouldn't have done them any good.

Yea, in my first post of this topic I state I prefer all offense as long as I meet the HP threshold.

Regardless, raids are raids because multiple people can run it. If you can solo them, great on you but the intent is to have multiple people help each other out. It'd be like complaining how much one keeps dying in a party based dungeon in a MMO trying to solo it.

When you get to where you can solo it (or simply know what you're doing as like this user here (http://harem-battle.club/kamihime-project/3188-wicked-emperor-abyss-overview-raid-event-post69456.html#post69456) who clearly does), having extra HP is unnecessary when deciding over it or more damage.

sanahtlig
04-14-2017, 02:43 PM
ATK↑/Burst Streak DMG↑ compared to a ATK↑/HP↑ buff. There is no damage loss.
The end damage works out to about the same, but you lose the HP buff! And your damage is still less than if you'd used an elemental DMG buff, making it more or less useless outside of a Burst-hour full raid scenario where that initial Burst will constitute the majority of your final damage.

Aidoru
04-14-2017, 02:55 PM
The end damage works out to about the same, but you lose the HP buff! And your damage is still less than if you'd used an elemental DMG buff, making it more or less useless.

End damage would be higher going ATK/Burst than ATK/HP. Your damage would be more if you chose the Element DMG over either ATK/HP or ATK/Burst because all SSR eidolons with both attack and HP/Burst are all limited to character ATK and not element DMG. My posts was just a comparison between choosing HP or Burst as I didn't see the option in the poll and there is no ElementDMG/HP to compare in the first place.

Unless I missed a eidolon with it.

Element DMG = Element ATK btw, just using DMG to make it easier to differentiate between the two types in my post.

Losticus
04-14-2017, 02:58 PM
What's the different between element attack up and character element attack up?

sanahtlig
04-14-2017, 03:21 PM
End damage would be higher going ATK/Burst than ATK/HP.
What are you basing this on?


What's the different between element attack up and character element attack up?
They're different factors in the damage equation. Character attack up is additive with assault skill as well as attack modifiers from most buffs and debuffs, while elemental DMG is multiplicative with those (and additive with other elemental modifiers).

Aidoru
04-14-2017, 03:25 PM
What are you basing this on?

If you play 2 battles doing the exact same thing, ignoring RNG factors. Both do the exact same damage when it comes to regular attacks and skills, but as long as you got out 1 burst streak, you already did more damage using ATK/Burst than using ATK/HP.

sanahtlig
04-14-2017, 04:15 PM
Both do the exact same damage when it comes to regular attacks and skills
But they don't? Vuritora's character ATK buff caps at 30%. Jormugand's caps at 40%. Ifrit is an outlier (50% base) because Gatcha; we can't all have the exact Gatcha eidolon we want.

Aidoru
04-14-2017, 04:33 PM
But they don't? Vuritora's character ATK buff caps at 30%. Jormugand's caps at 40%. Ifrit is an outlier (50% base) because Gatcha; we can't all have the exact Gatcha eidolon we want.

The example was in a scenario the ATK buff % values are all the same while one has HP and the other has Burst. And while not everyone can get gatcha units, not everyone can cap events eidolons either.

Though after taking another browse at the SSR list on the JP wiki, it seems that when it comes to this situation, if comparing same break limit gatcha eidolons, ATK/Burst > ATK/HP but if comparing only event eidolons, then ATK/HP > ATK/Burst. So in short:
Gatcha ATK/Burst Eidolon > Gatcha ATK/HP > Event ATK/HP > Event ATK/Burst

nazrin992
04-17-2017, 10:07 AM
But they don't? Vuritora's character ATK buff caps at 30%. Jormugand's caps at 40%. Ifrit is an outlier (50% base) because Gatcha; we can't all have the exact Gatcha eidolon we want.

It's Vritra, get your lore right ;)

VortexMagus
04-17-2017, 04:30 PM
If you play 2 battles doing the exact same thing, ignoring RNG factors. Both do the exact same damage when it comes to regular attacks and skills, but as long as you got out 1 burst streak, you already did more damage using ATK/Burst than using ATK/HP.

Isn't typhon only like 25% attack buff at max compared to Jorm's 40% attack?

EDIT: Also, I generally agree with you - but that's the caveat against easier opponents. Against harder opponents, more hp can increase your damage by allowing your starter Eidolons to survive damage that would otherwise be fatal. So I think assuming all else is equal, extra burst damage is better for easier raids where your Eidolon is not threatened and extra hp is better for harder ones where your Eidolons may die.

sanahtlig
04-17-2017, 05:42 PM
Isn't typhon only like 25% attack buff at max compared to Jorm's 40% attack?
The cap on Typhon-class eidolons is 30% character attack up, 30% burst streak damage up vs. 40% character attack up, 20% max HP up on Jorgumand-class eidolons. My point is that in a standard 9-turn attack sequence ending in a burst, the total damage dealt with Typhon-class eidolons (including the added burst streak damage) is about the same, yet you lose the HP buff. It's a poor trade-off under normal circumstances. Comparing a 30% Typhon to a 30% Jormugand doesn't make much sense; one is maxed and the other isn't (and it's not like Jorm was particularly difficult to cap).