PDA

View Full Version : Vortex's brief opinion guide to each SSR kamihime in the game.



VortexMagus
04-14-2017, 06:52 PM
This is for you serial rerollers who want to know how good your account is. Rerolling is super important in kamihime project because the chance of you pulling an SSR kamihime is really really low (as...

felix
04-14-2017, 07:44 PM
Have you actually played around with Thor or just stating your opinion based on skill description? "Has no hard hitting skills"? Sry, wut? Thor at 25% health or so with single stack of "ability up" was doing more damage than she was doing with her burst! In addition this skill takes her out of "danger zone" on hp, but thats just some damage, so who cares? everyone can do damage.
Paralysis is "good"? Ok, on paper it doesnt sound like much: 15 sec of boss doing nothing, so what? its just 15 sec... But let me translate you what it means. 15 sec of boss guaranteed doing nothing is basically -2 turns off of ALL your abilities on ALL kamihime + -2 turns off of eidolon summoning time + at least +20 to burst gauge (if nobody scores double hits) AND damage of your entire team times 2. (and i was doing it on mordred, where all the dots were eating my time, so without dots, it could be -3 turns off of everything and +30 burst gauge) After all there is a reason why dizzy has such a low chance of success and its still considered very strong status. This ability is crazy good! And thats coming from dark main btw, so i dont have any bias here.

VortexMagus
04-14-2017, 07:48 PM
Have you actually played around with Thor or just stating your opinion based on skill description? "Has no hard hitting skills"? Sry, wut? Thor at 25% health or so with single stack of "ability up" was doing more damage than she was doing with her burst! In addition this skill takes her out of "danger zone" on hp, but thats just some damage, so who cares? everyone can do damage.
Paralysis is "good"? Ok, on paper it doesnt sound like much: 15 sec of boss doing nothing, so what? its just 15 sec... But let me translate you what it means. 15 sec of boss guaranteed doing nothing is basically -2 turns off of ALL your abilities on ALL kamihime + -2 turns off of eidolon summoning time + at least +20 to burst gauge (if nobody scores double hits) AND damage of your entire team times 2. (and i was doing it on mordred, where all the dots were eating my time, so without dots, it could be -3 turns off of everything and +30 burst gauge) After all there is a reason why dizzy has such a low chance of success and its still considered very strong status. This ability is crazy good! And thats coming from dark main btw, so i dont have any bias here.

Yeah, I think Thor's still pretty good. Its just that I'd take Ramiel over her, that's all, cause dizziness is OP and burst gauge refill on everyone is OP and paralysis (Thor's best ability by far, in my opinion) is great but there are many other kamihime that offer paralysis, both SSR and SR. Also, we're comparing her ability damage to Shiva and Ares and Susanoo, not to her normal autoattack. Shiva, Ares, and Susanoo all do a lot more than Thor with their abilities as well.

Lastly, single target heal is kinda bad cause there's no way to guarantee its Thor that takes damage. So while its useful in a few situations, its not going to stop bosses from killing your healers or your heroic soul, which is usually what grinds your raid/mission to a halt.

felix
04-14-2017, 08:03 PM
but there are many other kamihime that offer paralysis, both SSR and SR.

Really? Like who?

Also Ramiel over Thor? Really? So you are saying that +10 to gague (ramiel 3rd) is better than +20 to gague (2 turns of enemy doing nothing)? Uhh... Ok then. Dizziness, regardless of who uses it, has abysmal chance of success while paralysis in my experience has more than 50% chance of success.

VortexMagus
04-14-2017, 10:59 PM
Really? Like who?

Also Ramiel over Thor? Really? So you are saying that +10 to gague (ramiel 3rd) is better than +20 to gague (2 turns of enemy doing nothing)? Uhh... Ok then. Dizziness, regardless of who uses it, has abysmal chance of success while paralysis in my experience has more than 50% chance of success.

Beelzebub, Belphegor, Huanglong Eidolon, etc. There are a lot of other sources of paralysis.

Ramiel has Dizziness on all 3 skills. So she puts it out very reliably, especially if you run Mordred who lowers affliction resistance. Dizziness is infinitely better than paralysis, cause it works everywhere and not just on things that are bosses which get stunned. There are some bosses which are tough to stun and you'll only get off a single stun in the entire fight. There are other bosses where your goal is to survive to the stun, which means you'll want a character with defense up, attack down, healing, or defense skills. Ramiel has multiple skills that qualify.

Lastly, this is just my opinion. You're free to disagree, by all means. I could totally be wrong and that's okay with me.

Azumish
04-14-2017, 11:46 PM
Beelzebub, Belphegor, Huanglong Eidolon, etc. There are a lot of other sources of paralysis.

Ramiel has Dizziness on all 3 skills. So she puts it out very reliably, especially if you run Mordred who lowers affliction resistance. Dizziness is infinitely better than paralysis, cause it works everywhere and not just on things that are bosses which get stunned. There are some bosses which are tough to stun and you'll only get off a single stun in the entire fight. There are other bosses where your goal is to survive to the stun, which means you'll want a character with defense up, attack down, healing, or defense skills. Ramiel has multiple skills that qualify.

Lastly, this is just my opinion. You're free to disagree, by all means. I could totally be wrong and that's okay with me.

I think you're mistaking paralysis with increased stun duration. Thor is the only kh who does paralysis right now. Paralysis is like dizzy, but with a 100% chance they miss their turn from what I've seen. Also, Beelzebub doesn't cause any boss debuffs.

felix
04-14-2017, 11:49 PM
Beelzebub, Belphegor, Huanglong Eidolon, .

uhh what are you even talking about? "Paralysis" is a status condition that prevents enemy from taking a turn guaranteed (its a 100% reliable dizziness) It has nothing to do with enemy being stunned. What you are referring to is probably "extend enemy stun condition" (although Beelz doesnt have that...) and Thor does NOT have "extend status condition". Thor has a skill that once hit, prevents enemy from taking ANY action for 15 sec, which translates to 2-3 turns, if you used the skill right before pressing attack button and then turn autobattle on, so that theres no delay between your next turn.
The fact that you had no idea what Paralysis actually is, makes me wonder how credible all other information is in this post...

sanahtlig
04-15-2017, 12:35 AM
uhh what are you even talking about? "Paralysis" is a status condition that prevents enemy from taking a turn guaranteed (its a 100% reliable dizziness) It has nothing to do with enemy being stunned. What you are referring to is probably "extend enemy stun condition" (although Beelz doesnt have that...) and Thor does NOT have "extend status condition".
Belphegor has a skill translated as 'Paralyzer' that extends stun duration. That's probably the source of the confusion. Incidentally, that's a direct transliteration of the JP. 'Paralysis' is a translation of the commonly-known status effect. To the Japanese these are very different words, but to us there's barely any difference at all.

Gisborn
04-15-2017, 01:31 AM
just wondering... why are we re-rating the stars.... the himes got 5 stars have their reasons... she might not good in every team but if in a good spot they will perform well enough...and let say...even though u had all 5 stars but scrambled elements i still think u gonna have a bad time

Naruhodo
04-15-2017, 06:17 AM
No SSR are comparable to SR, some SSR have awakening in JP version and their stats increase a LOT (and new illustration cool!)

VortexMagus
04-15-2017, 09:04 AM
I think you're mistaking paralysis with increased stun duration. Thor is the only kh who does paralysis right now. Paralysis is like dizzy, but with a 100% chance they miss their turn from what I've seen. Also, Beelzebub doesn't cause any boss debuffs.

Huh? So Belphegor's Paralyzer and Huanglong's eidolon attack are different from paralysis? Ugh, mistranslations. I'll correct myself, then, my bad. That skill is better than I thought it was.

Its kind of annoying we don't have an explanation for each status effect, some of them are incredibly unclear. According to the description, hallucination (from cybele) should also cause the boss to skip a turn, but it doesn't always seem to happen.

sanahtlig
04-15-2017, 09:17 AM
Huh? So Belphegor's Paralyzer and Huanglong's eidolon attack are different from paralysis? Ugh, mistranslations. I'll correct myself, then, my bad. That skill is better than I thought it was.

Its kind of annoying we don't have an explanation for each status effect, some of them are incredibly unclear. According to the description, hallucination (from cybele) should also cause the boss to skip a turn, but it doesn't always seem to happen.
Belphegor's attack isn't "mistranslated" so much as "not translated"; the difference between the skill and the status effect 'paralyze' is lost in translation. A careful translator would've changed the skill name to avoid confusion.

The Hallucination description is a mistranslation of the JP, though the JP is unclear also. It's a status effect applied to Cybele that nullifies enemy attacks (the JP description says 'nullifies the attacks of all enemies'--not the same as disabling them!); presumably it only works if she's targeted. Nutaku also fails to convey which skills target the group and which target the entire raid. This is an issue introduced by them that didn't exist in the original JP.

Some of these problems are just careless mistakes, but others result from hiring translators that don't play the game and don't understand the mechanics, and therefore don't know how to properly convey them. Good translators don't just translate; they clarify when needed to get the intended message across. In some cases, that means rewriting.

Inb4whales
04-16-2017, 12:03 AM
just wondering... why are we re-rating the stars.... the himes got 5 stars have their reasons... she might not good in every team but if in a good spot they will perform well enough...and let say...even though u had all 5 stars but scrambled elements i still think u gonna have a bad time
Consider it as a tierlist more than a rarity list.

SSR pull rate is low, sure. But it doesn't mean that their power should not be divided into layers of tiers.
In any given game that is not chess or checkers and you're allowed to choose characters or varying inherent abilities, tier list will always exist to show which of the characters simply perform better in most situations over the others.


One example being a comparison of two light element SSRs, Sol and the upcoming Raphael for example.
If you use the JP wiki (which I can't friggin post a link here), you'll notice that she is worse than Sol in pretty much every category except Max ATK stat with 370 more stat points than Sol.

Yolodesu
04-16-2017, 07:36 AM
Its kind of annoying we don't have an explanation for each status effect

http://kamihime-project.wikia.com/wiki/Combat_Mechanics

+ Thor's paralysis which isnt listed for some reason. Boss unable to act for 15sec

VortexMagus
04-16-2017, 03:42 PM
Consider it as a tierlist more than a rarity list.

SSR pull rate is low, sure. But it doesn't mean that their power should not be divided into layers of tiers.
In any given game that is not chess or checkers and you're allowed to choose characters or varying inherent abilities, tier list will always exist to show which of the characters simply perform better in most situations over the others.


One example being a comparison of two light element SSRs, Sol and the upcoming Raphael for example.
If you use the JP wiki (which I can't friggin post a link here), you'll notice that she is worse than Sol in pretty much every category except Max ATK stat with 370 more stat points than Sol.

A tier list, exactly. I'm not re-starring them, I'm rating how good they are compared to other SSRs. Of course they'll be better than most SRs of the same color just by virtue of having higher stats, a level 4 burst ability, and a higher level cap.

BamBam
04-16-2017, 10:55 PM
Hey man gj writing up your narrative. I like the tier list and looking forward to your SR tier list.

One way to make this better is if you can include the SSR that are going to be introduced to the game in short time(like next 2 events or sth)

I am sure everybody will be happy.

Side question: What do you think is the worst SSR/SR in the game>?

CBW
04-16-2017, 11:27 PM
Consider it as a tierlist more than a rarity list.

It feels more like a wishlist for rerollers than a tier list. If I ever get an SSR kamihime, it will be the best one I have.

Losticus
04-17-2017, 01:09 AM
One example being a comparison of two light element SSRs, Sol and the upcoming Raphael for example.
If you use the JP wiki (which I can't friggin post a link here), you'll notice that she is worse than Sol in pretty much every category except Max ATK stat with 370 more stat points than Sol.

What are Raphael's stats and moves?

Inb4whales
04-17-2017, 02:32 AM
This is the translated wiki page of Raphael. The third ability apparently meant that it deals light damage and reduces the target's orb charge bar by 1. <br />
<br />
<br />
Edit: <br />
Vortex, would it help clear the...

VortexMagus
04-17-2017, 03:04 PM
Hey man gj writing up your narrative. I like the tier list and looking forward to your SR tier list.

One way to make this better is if you can include the SSR that are going to be introduced to the game in short time(like next 2 events or sth)

I am sure everybody will be happy.

Side question: What do you think is the worst SSR/SR in the game>?

All the SSR are legitimately good. Even the worst one (at the moment I'd probably pick Satan) is still good.

Some of the SR, however, are legitimately terrible. For example, Agni is trash tier for all none-fire teams - some rares are better than she is. Also not a big fan of a lot of the wind SRs that only have mediocre single target damage, like Cronus and Hermod and the rest.

EDIT:



Vortex, would it help clear the confusion if you rename the "star" into letters "S, A+, A, B, etc"?

This is probably a good idea... just feeling too lazy at the moment to do it. May change it later lol...

felix
04-17-2017, 05:24 PM
For example, Agni is trash tier for all none-fire teams - some rares are better than she is.

Wow... I really cant understand whether you are trolling or serious. Medium atk increase that is unique to this hime only (in SR tier) and stacks together with all other atk buffs on entire party, combined with dmg output of weaker SSR hime... Yeah, sure, its garbage, throw it away for some R-tier piece of trash.
And "garbage for any non-fire team" is not an argument: 90% of all hime across all tiers and elements are "garbage to non-theirelement team"

Yolodesu
04-17-2017, 05:43 PM
Wow... I really cant understand whether you are trolling or serious

ye i had the same reaction when i saw this. I mean, this post has a lot of approximation in it, but this one was priceless.
Agni trash tier... jesus...

sanahtlig
04-17-2017, 05:55 PM
90% of all hime across all tiers and elements are "garbage to non-theirelement team"
I think this important truth was lost somewhere in this discussion. In the end, everyone has to work with the draws they get, and the single most important factor is whether you can assemble a decent single-element team, hopefully with at least one healer and one debuffer. Everything else is secondary.

There's a few kamihime (generally healers or debuffers) that are useful in any team regardless of element. If you score one of them, great. Otherwise, your team composition choices are probably going to be very limited. In my view, this thread is something of a re-roller's guide, and a mere curiosity to anyone else--a chance to learn about kamihime and skills you'll never encounter or need to know about.

VortexMagus
04-17-2017, 06:37 PM
ye i had the same reaction when i saw this. I mean, this post has a lot of approximation in it, but this one was priceless.
Agni trash tier... jesus...

Take a look at Agni's skills. Unless you have a group of 4 other good fire hime and a good fire eidolon to compliment her, she's one of the worst draws you could get. In a fire team she's great, in anything else you'd be better off playing some rares. The vast majority of people who draw Agni will not use her. In about 90% of teams she's the worst draw you could possibly get. Of course, this doesn't apply to people using fire teams, or people whaling the absolute shit out of this game and running viable teams for multiple elements.

Anybody who tells you that Agni is a desirable draw is either running a full fire team, or doesn't actually know what her skills do.

Yolodesu
04-17-2017, 07:41 PM
Take a look at Agni's skills. Unless you have a group of 4 other good fire hime and a good fire eidolon to compliment her, she's one of the worst draws you could get. In a fire team she's great, in anything else you'd be better off playing some rares. The vast majority of people who draw Agni will not use her. In about 90% of teams she's the worst draw you could possibly get. Of course, this doesn't apply to people using fire teams, or people whaling the absolute shit out of this game and running viable teams for multiple elements.

Anybody who tells you that Agni is a desirable draw is either running a full fire team, or doesn't actually know what her skills do.

Oh no kidding dude, a damage role is good in a team which fits her element...
Even if you have no fire hime at all (so basically... if you didnt get your first free kamihime?), you have a simple damage dealer with selfbuff... Such as Artemis, Chronus, Oceanus, Hermod. You can also count Hermes as damage dealer only.
So what? Half of the draw you can get?

No, even in the worst situation, she isnt the worst SR you can get. And i would be glad if you can tell me a single notzephyrus R better than her, even in this case.
Remember that R only have 2 skills, no assist skill, less burst damage.

I understand you want to help, but this post should be called "what's your favorite kamihime", not a guide about anything

Unregistered
04-17-2017, 08:04 PM
Zephyrus, although she's basically the Sol of R so I'm cheating here <.<

Yolodesu
04-17-2017, 08:11 PM
Zephyrus, although she's basically the Sol of R so I'm cheating here <.<

Shhh! She doesnt count :p Wait a second i'll edit that

VortexMagus
04-17-2017, 09:38 PM
Zephyrus and Perun and Kushinada and Orpheus are all better than Agni in non-fire teams. I'd run them in a heartbeat in properly typed teams over Agni. Hell, I'd probably run a blank kami with no skills over Agni, since +80% damage to autoattack and burst from eidolons is going to outweigh a bad self heal, wind resist, and mediocre damage.

Anyways, I think you're all waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too defensive over some mediocre kamis. Agni's only great in one super limited situation and the rest of the time she's trash. There are plenty of SR kamis that are great in almost every situation, even in off-element teams, like Ramiel, Brynhildr, etc. You and felix getting really really really upset over some super minor disagreements. By all means, don't let me stop you from running Thor in a dark team or Agni in a water team, if thats your flavor, you go for it.

I understand you love Agni and all, but you should really look at the numbers and not let your bias infect these things.

felix
04-17-2017, 10:21 PM
I think you just dont understand the basics of the game. Ill repeat: saying that agni is garbage in any team aside from fire is like saying that water is wet. What do experienced DMM players say to newcomers first thing when they are asked advise? Chose your element and stick with it! Saying that only whales can afford multiple element teams is bullshit: 3k jewel draws, premium log in tickets, premium event tickets, and later premium kamihime tickets... ANY player will be able to assemble pure element teams in couple of months if hes VERY unlucky. Ofc i wont put agni in water team but i also wont put amaterasu in water team. Why? Because Jorm wouldve onshot her any time she wouldve been targeted, regardless of how good her abilities are.
This game is not about being a jack of all trades, its about being a professional in one! Once i get 4 fire hime, for my fire team, i will consider swapping any of them for off-element hime only if the candidate is EXTREMELY good for that same reason you described: 80% dmg increase against weak element. Comparing Agni to himes of another element is unreasonable, simply because your goal in the long run is to get pure element teams. Why dont you compare agni to Belphegor while fighting fire boss? Doesnt that seem unfair? Let me ask you this then: would you bring Belphegor instead of Agni while fighting wind boss? I wouldn't.
As for bias, ill repeat myself: im dark/light main, so fire himes dont concern me that much, i just dont understand the logic behind calling a great fire hime "bad" just because shes bad in off-element team. Its like... Duh, no shit bruh. Does that mean shes bad? No. Compare her to all other fire R or SR himes: aside from Brynhilde and maybe Haphestus, shes the best you can get. So by your logic, ALL fire himes that are not brynhilde are trash? Cmon man, thats ridiculous.

Unregistered
04-17-2017, 10:25 PM
Oh, right, the question of worst SR/SSR kamihime in the game.

For SR, it's Baldr. No utility of any sort or even basic beatstick functionality.
For SSR... haven't looked through all the SSR yet, but Uriel catches my eye. Strictly an attacker with a gimmick revolving around burst attacks, but the numbers seem to sub-par, based off comments?

Yolodesu
04-18-2017, 01:04 AM
Zephyrus and Perun and Kushinada and Orpheus are all better than Agni in non-fire teams. I'd run them in a heartbeat in properly typed teams over Agni. Hell, I'd probably run a blank kami with no skills over Agni, since +80% damage to autoattack and burst from eidolons is going to outweigh a bad self heal, wind resist, and mediocre damage.

Dude, what the fuck are we talking about? Which self heal? What is burst from eidolon? And no please, none of those 4 are better in any way.

We are not upset by minor disagreements, when you write a guide, "experienced" ppl will judge you and your advice, because what you're writing will affect new players opinion and has to be accurate. Since you obviously didnt test some of the SSR you're talking about (you didnt even know the difference between paralysis and stun extend), your post is full of approximation.

Shiva > Amon based on what? Why is a pure damage with the most common buff in the game better than the kamihime with the strongest B frame def debuff in the game?
Poseidon = Susanoo based on what? Why is a simple damage dealer more interesting than one with affliction immunity and strong debuff?
Why would Michael be a "4.5 star" and Agni a trash tier when they have the same type of buff?
ect ect...

This isnt a guide, this is a "rate your waifu" thingy.

VortexMagus
04-18-2017, 08:36 AM
Dude, what the fuck are we talking about? Which self heal? What is burst from eidolon? And no please, none of those 4 are better in any way.

We are not upset by minor disagreements, when you write a guide, "experienced" ppl will judge you and your advice, because what you're writing will affect new players opinion and has to be accurate. Since you obviously didnt test some of the SSR you're talking about (you didnt even know the difference between paralysis and stun extend), your post is full of approximation.

Shiva > Amon based on what? Why is a pure damage with the most common buff in the game better than the kamihime with the strongest B frame def debuff in the game?
Poseidon = Susanoo based on what? Why is a simple damage dealer more interesting than one with affliction immunity and strong debuff?
Why would Michael be a "4.5 star" and Agni a trash tier when they have the same type of buff?
ect ect...

This isnt a guide, this is a "rate your waifu" thingy.

My ratings are very simple: 3 useful skills vs everything on Shiva. 3 useful skills vs bosses on Amon.

Also going to point out that Shiva has the strongest A-frame group attack buff in the game, and two skills that are useful for both clearing trash and threatening bosses. Meanwhile, Amon's got a bunch of single target skills that are great against bosses and two of them are pretty useless against trash. Also, keep in mind that Shiva's damage can be used multiple times, whenever you want, while Amon's damage only threatens raging bosses.

Poseidon: I don't know if you noticed but Poseidon is a defense type Kami. She's got way lower stats than offensive kamis, and her skills are only situationally useful compared to Gaia or Ama, which are overpowered as fuck.

Michael: If you actually read my words, I told you that Michael was 4.5 star with a full light team, and the lowest tier of SSR without one. This is more or less how I regard Agni - strong with a fire team, utterly useless with any other team.

Anyway, I think its pretty clear you and felix have no idea what you're talking about. It's okay to be strictly inferior, this is one of those games where bad play can be rewarded anyway by throwing money at it.

felix
04-18-2017, 11:40 AM
Anyway, I think its pretty clear you and felix have no idea what you're talking about.

says a guy who didnt even know what "paralysis" is... Irony much? You obviously havent played around with the himes you talk about, but pretend to know about how useful they are based solely on wiki stats. Your logic is full of holes, that you conveniently decided to ignore, and you keep making one ridiculous statement after another...
Basically im done here: this guy is either trolling us, or just tryin to cover up his own lack of knowlage. Either way i have no more interest in correcting him: he wants to throw away Agni in favor of Zephyros? Take R-tier instead of Thor with unique up to this day debuff? Be my guest, i know better and thats what matters.