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QXZ
05-12-2017, 08:46 PM
I m lv 35, already unlocked Arthur. Which legendary soul should I unlock next?

A few additional questions...
1. Is Sigfried usually the best choice for most rage metered bosses? (Raid / Advent)
2. In what situations will Mortred be better?
3. Are the defence / healing souls worth getting?

It seems to me right now that burst damage is the way to go. And Arthur / Sigfried looks really good in the dmg department.

P.S. Solomon of course is best used for sucking dick.

Gisborn
05-12-2017, 10:07 PM
I m lv 35, already unlocked Arthur. Which legendary soul should I unlock next?

A few additional questions...
1. Is Sigfried usually the best choice for most rage metered bosses? (Raid / Advent)
2. In what situations will Mortred be better?
3. Are the defence / healing souls worth getting?

It seems to me right now that burst damage is the way to go. And Arthur / Sigfried looks really good in the dmg department.

P.S. Solomon of course is best used for sucking dick.

1. every bosses are different....example light raid hard to build up rage and rage mode longer while others are shorter...so no definite answer for this
2. when u can't nuke the boss down in few rounds and bosses are not immune to status effect
3. they are the life saver, 1 or 2 in team will do, while i personally prefer running full offensive team~

For burst yes but when u get unlucky.....bosses triple shot ur soul.... then it will be dead = 0 dmg deal~

P.S. I'm the one using Solomon for sucking dick... ability dmg boost with rage skill(overdrive from Siegfried) ain't joke~
my dark amon and solomon each dealing 90-100k per rage skill~

4685

lightwolf
05-13-2017, 02:12 PM
I m lv 35, already unlocked Arthur. Which legendary soul should I unlock next?

A few additional questions...
1. Is Sigfried usually the best choice for most rage metered bosses? (Raid / Advent)
2. In what situations will Mortred be better?
3. Are the defence / healing souls worth getting?

It seems to me right now that burst damage is the way to go. And Arthur / Sigfried looks really good in the dmg department.

P.S. Solomon of course is best used for sucking dick.

Ok this actually a very complicated question as all the souls have their roles even if it's just the master bonus they provide. The first consideration is what team are you running. Are you trying to run with just 2 or so teams? (a Main and a secondary to cover it's opposite element). Are you trying to run a different team for each element? (Difficult unless your ready to spend some cash). After you figure this out you need to figure out what Kamihime you are using. If you have defense and healing Kamihime, Mordred is a good choice as she gives a good DOT with her main skill. She is also good with raids with her ability to add an extra raid meter. In my experience the most well rounded Souls are Mordred and Andromeda.

Arthur is a good for constant damage and if you like arthur then you should focus on the Master bonuses that you want. Defense, Health, attack, rage, etc. If you don't like arthur then you should figure out which Soul you want. To keep things simple i'll try to give a brief description of each.

Arthur- Good Constant Damage, Rage gauge boost. Master bonus -3% Attack
Joan- Defensive, good at keeping you alive from burst. Master bonus -3% Defense
Andromeda- Healer with defense boosts and revive. Good for Marathon battles. Master- Healing power 3%
Solomon- Ability Damage. Period. Master -6% Ability Damage
Seigfried- Your rage control stick. She is a good choice if you want to control the rage bar of your enemy. Master- Rage suppression 3%
Mordred- Does increased damage against affilicated enemies and has a good afflication ability and control, has some rage control. Master- Afflication RESIST 6%
D`Artnagnan- Increase your item drop rate. Has a decent self-heal and attack-defense debuff. Useful for getting more items(Kinda,Maybe, Sort of). I wouldn't recommmend her unless you are having no problems with the enemy. Master- HP 3%

sanahtlig
05-13-2017, 02:19 PM
It really depends what your strategy and team composition is and the nature of the encounter. For example, I needed to put together a Water team that could handle Ultimate Rahab on Auto-battle. Mordred turned out to be best-suited for this because she could extend the boss's overdrive meter and apply a string of debuffs that were less likely to be resisted, all while spamming Chaos Magic on cooldown. Other souls were too timing/RNG dependent and the team had to be micromanaged, which would be a huge time sink over the course of 100+ battles. Siegfried was great for ending the battle quickly in manual mode, but that still took longer than the 30s I spend setting up battles now. But on a boss that resisted or cleared debuffs Mordred would be useless. It's all situational.

QXZ
05-13-2017, 05:57 PM
Thank you for the well thought responses guys.

I think i m gonna go with Siegfried for now. I am a casual player but i like variety for fun.... and by fun i mean harem. i play all elements.

initially i was gonna picked mortred cause shes like a choice that you can't go wrong with. but currently, my SSR weapns are glaives and hammers. which means my Sieg is gonna have more output for a while. i also really enjoy the rage control mechanics which makes the game really involved and fun.

had i had some SSR swords though... my choice would have definitely went to Mortred... its just my wpn drops is completely biased towards Sieg.

fucka
05-13-2017, 06:02 PM
Arthur
Basically the highend-endgame soul. Once you have maxed your weapons and eidolons, you are able to clear any content with pure damage without healing and boss rage control. you just want to clear everything quicklier. So Arthur is best for that. Whales love her.

Mordred/Andromeda/Joan
are beginner/F2P friendly. You are able to clear contents, which should be too hard for your current level/power. For example, you maybe need only 25000 power indead of 30000, which is required, when you use Arthur. Atm poeple with 30000+ power don't need to use them, because the content is easy, but in the future more hardcore instances will be released. If you don't have fullset of full LB SSR weapons with lv20 attack up, you may love them again. It depends on the boss type, which one of the three should be used.

Siegfried
is used for MVP stealing in Raids. With specific kamis in team, you will get incredible result. Actually for Damage dealing Arthur is better one overall. And for rage/overdrive meter control Mordred is better.


D`Artnagnan
She is on the must-have-list for expert players, not because she has snatch....
She has one of the best EX-skill in the game, "sniper shot". This is the strongest B type debuff, which reduces 20% attk and 20% def. It shows "+" for small/middle, actually the true effect is "big". If you want to unlock the EX, you need to unlock her...

Solomon
Another endgame soul. You don't need to consider her under rank 70.
unlike most people believe, SHE is not weak!!!
Her ability scales best with the increase of your +% atk from weapons and element. Further, new kamis with ability hitting up to 6-8 times will be released. Ability up works best with them.
We take 20% ability up as example:
If the ability hits 8 times for 1x dmg, 20% means 8x20% = 160% increase in total!. Solomon ring hits also 6 times, thats 120% by 20% ability up. In addition, you could use the EX buff from Rosenkreuz (40% abilty up).
With new kamis hitting like mashineguns, Solomon lead becomes godlike.
Unfornately, strong hitter like shiva, whose ability only hits one time for 5x dmg or similar, doesn't benefit a lot from ability up. 20% up means, 5.2x dmg instead of 5.0.

Ability has its own multiplier, the higher +% attk from weapons and elelement are, the more you will benefit from ability up. You will feel the difference when you reach the endgame. +100% attk and more through weapons and +80% up and more through element.

QXZ
05-13-2017, 07:47 PM
i didnt know siegfried is strictly MVP stealing.... i've always had legitimate problems with rage mode. i often sit there until someone else take em out for me. especially on ragnarok difficulty.

sanahtlig
05-13-2017, 08:22 PM
Siegfried was effective for the Medusa Advent Ultimate. Starting with a Full Burst was the strategy for that fight, and Siegfried enabled a properly configured and equipped team to reduce the Rage meter in a single round, which was essential for minimizing the opportunities for her to petrify the entire team. She also comes in handy when the boss needs to die before the first overdrive cast.

felix
05-13-2017, 08:23 PM
Arthur
Solomon
Another endgame soul. You don't need to consider her under rank 70.
unlike most people believe, SHE is not weak!!!
Her ability scales best with the increase of your +% atk from weapons and element. Further, new kamis with ability hitting up to 6-8 times will be released. Ability up works best with them.
We take 20% ability up as example:
If the ability hits 8 times for 1x dmg, 20% means 8x20% = 160% increase in total!. Solomon ring hits also 6 times, thats 120% by 20% ability up. In addition, you could use the EX buff from Rosenkreuz (40% abilty up).
With new kamis hitting like mashineguns, Solomon lead becomes godlike.
Unfornately, strong hitter like shiva, whose ability only hits one time for 5x dmg or similar, doesn't benefit a lot from ability up. 20% up means, 5.2x dmg instead of 5.0.

Ability has its own multiplier, the higher +% attk from weapons and elelement are, the more you will benefit from ability up. You will feel the difference when you reach the endgame. +100% attk and more through weapons and +80% up and more through element.

what are you even talking about? Solomon ability up affects ONLY her and nobody else. She is useless for the team. As for the element dmg stacking into endgame, that is precisely the reason why Solomon suck: her 2nd ability does 1 hit with each element, for a total of 6 hits but when you are completely focused on fire, or dark, or whatever, only 1 out of 6 hits gets the benefits! All other hits do base dmg, that might as well not even exist. Her only "alright" skill is her 1st one, but even that one... 1 to 4.5 times damage? that's waaaay too rng to be useful. 20% ability up comes from Rosenkreuz, not Solomon, and that is actually pretty useful skill to get as EX in some team compositions. Solomon though... Yeah, neither of her "borrowable" skills are worth it.

lightwolf
05-13-2017, 08:29 PM
i didnt know siegfried is strictly MVP stealing.... i've always had legitimate problems with rage mode. i often sit there until someone else take em out for me. especially on ragnarok difficulty.

She's not strictly, that's just what she's used for sometimes. If you are having problems with rage mode enemies she's still a good choice. But because of her increased on stun attack ability she can be used for a quick burst to take an MVP.

Also of note is not just Souls as a character but there master Buffs and EX abilities.

QXZ
05-13-2017, 09:05 PM
another related question i have is what is the fastest way to earn soul points? is it the lowest advent difficulty?

lightwolf
05-13-2017, 09:24 PM
fastest way is Ultimate. you get between 12-18 bronze chests and they are only the 1st and 2nd materials, no weapons or eido. Outside of that though it's probably the first lvl 10.

QXZ
05-13-2017, 09:50 PM
thanks....

i have so many rahab pearls i dont even know what to do with it. i m trying to convert all my AP's into soul points

Naruhodo
05-14-2017, 12:40 AM
If your team rely on debuff, Mordred's abnormal status resistance down for enemy is really good. But next free dark SR kamihime from raid have that skill too (Like a mini Mordred without enemy skill gauge control and atk-def-down etc) and assist skill is abnormal status resistance up.

fucka
05-14-2017, 06:45 AM
what are you even talking about? Solomon ability up affects ONLY her and nobody else. She is useless for the team. As for the element dmg stacking into endgame, that is precisely the reason why Solomon suck: her 2nd ability does 1 hit with each element, for a total of 6 hits but when you are completely focused on fire, or dark, or whatever, only 1 out of 6 hits gets the benefits! All other hits do base dmg, that might as well not even exist. Her only "alright" skill is her 1st one, but even that one... 1 to 4.5 times damage? that's waaaay too rng to be useful. 20% ability up comes from Rosenkreuz, not Solomon, and that is actually pretty useful skill to get as EX in some team compositions. Solomon though... Yeah, neither of her "borrowable" skills are worth it.

Can't you read?!
Solomon increases about 20% ability up with her mastery! And you know her assist skill is working for the whole group, right?! Check her skills again, if you have no idea about her skills. I was never talking about her "book of Raziel", lol. And I said, in addition you could use EX from rosenkreuz, which gives ability up for whole group.

And about ability which hit more than 1 time.
There will be several kamis, which will be released in the future. Be honest, you have no idea about them. Im talking from point of view, when you have played the game more than 1 year and reaching power of 50k+ and more.

How long have u played this game? 3 monats?!

Now for some kamis
An ablilty which hits 6 times or more, usually, has low damage multiplier, around 1. 20% ability up means true 20% up.
An ability which hits 1 time for 5x dmg is different. It will deal 5.2x dmg. 20% up means only 4% true increase for this ability.
You will benefit more from Solomon-lead with Rosenkreuz's EX, when you have those kamis in your team...
(Don't use Solomon pls, if you pull one of those kamis... Solomon sux really)

Do you have +100% attk up from your weapons? Do you have 100% element up god eidolons? If you don't, then you don't know solomon's true potential. Once you have reached endgame, you will have enough soul points to unlock all legendary souls. And you will know what im talking about.
So don't bother anyway.

Unregistered
05-14-2017, 06:59 AM
Can't you read?!
Solomon increases about 20% ability up with her mastery! And you know her assist skill is working for the whole group, right?! Check her skills again, if you have no idea about her skills. I was never talking about her "book of Raziel", lol. And I said, in addition you could use EX from rosenkreuz, which gives ability up for whole group.

And about ability which hit more than 1 time.
There will be several kamis, which will be released in the future. Be honest, you have no idea about them. Im talking from point of view, when you have played the game more than 1 year and reaching power of 50k+ and more.

How long have u played this game? 3 monats?!

Now for some kamis
An ablilty which hits 6 times or more, usually, has low damage multiplier, around 1. 20% ability up means true 20% up.
An ability which hits 1 time for 5x dmg is different. It will deal 5.2x dmg. 20% up means only 4% true increase for this ability.
You will benifit more from Solomon-lead with Rosenkreuz's EX, when you have those kamis in your team...
(Don't use Solomon pls, if you pull one of those kamis... Solomon sux really)

Do you have +100% attk up from your weapons? Do you have 100% element up god eidolons? If you don't, then you don't know true solomon's potential. Once you have reached endgame, you will have enough soul points to unlock all legendary souls. And you will know what im talking about.
So don't bother anyway.

sorry I don't hav acount

isnt 20% up works like this
6hit of 1xDmg with 20% up be hitting like 1.2 + 1.2 +1.2 + 1.2 +1.2 +1.2 = 7.2 (20% increase)
1hit of 5xDmg with 20% up be hitting like 6 (20% increase in one kapow)

fucka
05-14-2017, 07:02 AM
sorry I don't hav acount

isnt 20% up works like this
6hit of 1xDmg with 20% up be hitting like 1.2 + 1.2 +1.2 + 1.2 +1.2 +1.2 = 7.2 (20% increase)
1hit of 5xDmg with 20% up be hitting like 6 (20% increase in one kapow)

That was a wrong descripton from me in my first post.

This way to correct:
An ablilty which hits 6 times or more, usually, has low damage multiplier, around 1. (1+0.2)x6 =7.2, 20% ability up means true 20% up.
An ability which hits 1 time for 5x dmg is different. It will deal 5.2x dmg, (5+0.2)x1=5.2, 20% up means only 4% true increase for this ability. (Because 0.2 / 5 = 0.04)

The ability up is added to the ability multiplier.
The attack up is added to the character attk up multiplier.

Character attk multiplier x element attack multiplier x ability multiplier = total damage multiplier.


It really depends on the playstyle and kamis in your team, whether solomon is good or not. Sussanoo's first skill for example will benifit a lot from solomon with Rosenkreuz's EX.

Without certain kamis in team and low weapon assault skill level, solomon is pretty useless. So poeple should focus on other souls first, but if someone says "Solomon is absolute crap", he needs to learn more about the game.

lightwolf
05-14-2017, 08:29 AM
That was a wrong descripton from me in my first post.

This way to correct:
An ablilty which hits 6 times or more, usually, has low damage multiplier, around 1. (1+0.2)x6 =7.2, 20% ability up means true 20% up.
An ability which hits 1 time for 5x dmg is different. It will deal 5.2x dmg, (5+0.2)x1=5.2, 20% up means only 4% true increase for this ability. (Because 0.2 / 5 = 0.04)

The ability up is added to the ability multiplier.
The attack up is added to the character attk up multiplier.

Character attk multiplier x element attack multiplier x ability multiplier = total damage multiplier.


It really depends on the playstyle and kamis in your team, whether solomon is good or not. Sussanoo's first skill for example will benifit a lot from solomon with Rosenkreuz's EX.

Without certain kamis in team and low weapon assault skill level, solomon is pretty useless. So poeple should focus on other souls first, but if someone says "Solomon is absolute crap", he needs to learn more about the game.

But what your talking about is at least 9 months to a year in the future. Some people have never even looked at the japanese version wiki. I don't think anyone is saying solomon will never be good. Just that right now she's not as good Overall as the other Souls. I understand what your saying, but right now solomon is not very good especially considering the question that was asked by the original poster.

sanahtlig
05-14-2017, 08:57 AM
Can't you read?!
Solomon increases about 20% ability up with her mastery! And you know her assist skill is working for the whole group, right?!
The JP wiki (http://xn--hckqz0e9cygq471ahu9b.xn--wiki-4i9hs14f.com/index.php?%E3%82%BD%E3%83%AD%E3%83%A2%E3%83%B3) says the bonus from the assist skill is 8%.

Also, every indication I've seen is that assist skills only affect the soul/kamihime that has the skill (a comment on the JP wiki (http://xn--hckqz0e9cygq471ahu9b.xn--wiki-4i9hs14f.com/index.php?cmd=read&page=FAQ%E3%83%BB%E3%82%88%E3%81%8F%E3%81%82%E3%82 %8B%E8%B3%AA%E5%95%8F%2F%E3%82%B3%E3%83%A1%E3%83%B 3%E3%83%88&word=%E3%82%A2%E3%82%B7%E3%82%B9%E3%83%88) affirms this). Moreover, I tested skill damage just now with Rosenkreutz vs. Mordred (no buffs or debuffs applied) under controlled conditions, and allies of Rosenkreutz did not do more skill damage.

Skulkraken
05-14-2017, 10:41 AM
The JP wiki (http://xn--hckqz0e9cygq471ahu9b.xn--wiki-4i9hs14f.com/index.php?%E3%82%BD%E3%83%AD%E3%83%A2%E3%83%B3) says the bonus from the assist skill is 8%.

Also, every indication I've seen is that assist skills only affect the soul/kamihime that has the skill (a comment on the JP wiki (http://xn--hckqz0e9cygq471ahu9b.xn--wiki-4i9hs14f.com/index.php?cmd=read&page=FAQ%E3%83%BB%E3%82%88%E3%81%8F%E3%81%82%E3%82 %8B%E8%B3%AA%E5%95%8F%2F%E3%82%B3%E3%83%A1%E3%83%B 3%E3%83%88&word=%E3%82%A2%E3%82%B7%E3%82%B9%E3%83%88) affirms this). Moreover, I tested skill damage just now with Rosenkreutz vs. Mordred (no buffs or debuffs applied) under controlled conditions, and allies of Rosenkreutz did not do more skill damage.

Should that be reported as a bug, then? The English wiki (http://kamihime-project.wikia.com/wiki/Heroic_Spirits) explicitly says that Assist abilities are supposed to affect the whole team:


Assist (Passive) skills - These are active from level one, and affects the entire party's abilities when the Heroic Spirit is active. These do not increase in strength with level.

fucka
05-14-2017, 11:38 AM
Should that be reported as a bug, then? The English wiki (http://kamihime-project.wikia.com/wiki/Heroic_Spirits) explicitly says that Assist abilities are supposed to affect the whole team:

The assist skill should provide buff for the active team. There is 1 dark SR, who provides even buff for whole in the sub slot.

- - - Updated - - -


But what your talking about is at least 9 months to a year in the future. Some people have never even looked at the japanese version wiki. I don't think anyone is saying solomon will never be good. Just that right now she's not as good Overall as the other Souls. I understand what your saying, but right now solomon is not very good especially considering the question that was asked by the original poster.

I also say, solomon is useless, if certain requirements/SSRs are missing. And you don't need to consider her below rank 70. I never said, she has high priority on the unlock-list, because mordred/d'arc/andromeda are more beginnger-friendly.
Soul points won't be a issue, when you play long enough.
If you try to level and use solomon instead of mordred/andro etc, then you do something wrong. The first word I used for her "Endgame soul"
Don't miss the point.

sanahtlig
05-14-2017, 12:24 PM
Should that be reported as a bug, then? The English wiki (http://kamihime-project.wikia.com/wiki/Heroic_Spirits) explicitly says that Assist abilities are supposed to affect the whole team:
That wiki has known inaccuracies. I would treat it as I would a user blog. My first question would be what evidence / source the wiki entry is based on.

To my knowledge, there is no reliable and comprehensive source of info for this game in English. That's partly why I spend considerable time interpreting what I see on the JP wiki for users here.

fucka
05-14-2017, 12:37 PM
The JP wiki (http://xn--hckqz0e9cygq471ahu9b.xn--wiki-4i9hs14f.com/index.php?%E3%82%BD%E3%83%AD%E3%83%A2%E3%83%B3) says the bonus from the assist skill is 8%.

Also, every indication I've seen is that assist skills only affect the soul/kamihime that has the skill (a comment on the JP wiki (http://xn--hckqz0e9cygq471ahu9b.xn--wiki-4i9hs14f.com/index.php?cmd=read&page=FAQ%E3%83%BB%E3%82%88%E3%81%8F%E3%81%82%E3%82 %8B%E8%B3%AA%E5%95%8F%2F%E3%82%B3%E3%83%A1%E3%83%B 3%E3%83%88&word=%E3%82%A2%E3%82%B7%E3%82%B9%E3%83%88) affirms this). Moreover, I tested skill damage just now with Rosenkreutz vs. Mordred (no buffs or debuffs applied) under controlled conditions, and allies of Rosenkreutz did not do more skill damage.

I have checked again.
Unfornately, Rose&solomon's assist only apply to themselves.

Solomonring deals 6 times 0.85x dmg (except type disadvantage/advantage). so with 80% Ability up (through buffs, passive and assist), you almost double its damage.
Using rosenkreuz with EX solomonring is also intresting, because she can hit 11 times in one turn. Something useful for MVP stealing. If there is other SSRs whose ability can hit several times, you have high burst dmg just trough ability. Without those kamis, setting ability up eidolon (Rahab) is less useful, because you only boost your soul (if rose or solomon).

- - - Updated - - -


That wiki has known inaccuracies. I would treat it as I would a user blog. My first question would be what evidence / source the wiki entry is based on.

To my knowledge, there is no reliable and comprehensive source of info for this game in English. That's partly why I spend considerable time interpreting what I see on the JP wiki for users here.

I use chinese ressources. They had collected many data and did a lot math.

felix
05-14-2017, 01:19 PM
Can't you read?!
Solomon increases about 20% ability up with her mastery! And you know her assist skill is working for the whole group, right?! Check her skills again, if you have no idea about her skills. I was never talking about her "book of Raziel", lol. And I said, in addition you could use EX from rosenkreuz, which gives ability up for whole group.

And about ability which hit more than 1 time.
There will be several kamis, which will be released in the future. Be honest, you have no idea about them. Im talking from point of view, when you have played the game more than 1 year and reaching power of 50k+ and more.

20% ability up is worthless since its only for herself and her abilities suck. +20% to nothing is still nothing you know... And her assist... sanahtligalready said everything.

i am well aware that multihit abilities benefit greatly from ability up ( i do have Susanoo and cant wait for Bastet for that very reason) Problem is, what does Solomon brings to the table, that other souls dont? 8% ability increase (even if i did work for the team, which it doesnt, and since it still doesnt work in DMM version, i doubt its a bug) Wow! whole 8% ability increase, that ONLY works when you use abilities... that have cooldowns... As opposed to say Arthur's atk increase, that is active EVERY TURN. Also you are basically sacrificing 3 soul abilities (since all 3 Solomon's abilities are pretty garbage) for that 8% ability up. On the other hand you could have 3 actually usefull abilities on your soul PLUS passive that is usefull all the time. Yeah, sure, Solomon is sooooooo goooood, Sooo good in fact, even in DMM endgame nobody uses her at all. Sure, you are smarter than thousands of people, who actually do testing and maintain up-to-date jap wiki, good for you! Tell me when you get your Noble Prize, ok?

fucka
05-14-2017, 01:41 PM
20% ability up is worthless since its only for herself and her abilities suck. +20% to nothing is still nothing you know... And her assist... sanahtligalready said everything.

i am well aware that multihit abilities benefit greatly from ability up ( i do have Susanoo and cant wait for Bastet for that very reason) Problem is, what does Solomon brings to the table, that other souls dont? 8% ability increase (even if i did work for the team, which it doesnt, and since it still doesnt work in DMM version, i doubt its a bug) Wow! whole 8% ability increase, that ONLY works when you use abilities... that have cooldowns... As opposed to say Arthur's atk increase, that is active EVERY TURN. Also you are basically sacrificing 3 soul abilities (since all 3 Solomon's abilities are pretty garbage) for that 8% ability up. On the other hand you could have 3 actually usefull abilities on your soul PLUS passive that is usefull all the time. Yeah, sure, Solomon is sooooooo goooood, Sooo good in fact, even in DMM endgame nobody uses her at all. Sure, you are smarter than thousands of people, who actually do testing and maintain up-to-date jap wiki, good for you! Tell me when you get your Noble Prize, ok?

Stay to the facts, don' act like 3 years old. This is a game for adult.

I speak of her strength, her weakness and how is ability up scales with her ability and damage, if you don't like her, then you don't need to unlock her. If your soul points are overflowing, you will unlock her anyway.

Some people got 2. bonus ability up eidolons. This bonus is acutally less useful than HP or burst damage for standard teams, but you will have huge boost, if you have solomon/rose-lead and another SSR DD such as Susanoo (There will be another one, who is much stronger than susanoo).
No such SSRs, no such eidolons, then ignore her simply.
Arguing for what? that you are smarter than you seem to be?! You need to grow up first...

It is an option, which need specific requirements. And she is for endgame, when you have tons of useless soul points anyway.

Hard to understand?

felix
05-14-2017, 01:52 PM
Stay to the facts, don' act like 3 years old. This is a game for adult.

I speak of her strength, her weakness and how is ability up scales with her ability and damage, if you don't like her, then you don't need to unlock her. If your soul points are overflowing, you will unlock her anyway.


Im not arguing that "ability up" is worthless. I'm arguing that you provide wrong information: the only thing that Solomon gives to those SSR hime with multihit abilities that you speak of, is 8% ability up, and ONLY if devs "fix" assist abilities for souls (which they dont seem to care too much about, so basically right now Solomon provides literary no benefit for anyone except herself). Everything else (Roze's Ex, eidolons active/passives) can be stacked on any other soul and the result will be the same, minus 8% ability up, but instead you will get another passive as well as 3 useful abilities. What im trying to say, is that i can't see a single situation, in which Solomon would be more desirable than literary ANY other Soul. Yes, late game, when ill get 99999 Soul P i will prob unlock her, and lvl her up to 20, just to get my H-Scene and 50 jewels, but i seriously cant imagine a situation in which i would be like "man, if only i had Solomon, i wouldve beat this boss/beat this boss faster/survived this attack"

sanahtlig
05-14-2017, 02:41 PM
the only thing that Solomon gives to those SSR hime with multihit abilities that you speak of, is 8% ability up, and ONLY if devs "fix" assist abilities for souls (which they dont seem to care too much about, so basically right now Solomon provides literary no benefit for anyone except herself).
Let me rephrase my current understanding of this to avoid propagating more speculation: I see no evidence that assist abilities affect the entire team (DMM or Nutaku version). That is not evidence that they DON'T. 8% is such a small buff, and the random modifiers on ability damage are so large (not to mention all the potential confounding variables), that reliably spotting such a small effect statistically is actually pretty difficult and would require some dedicated data collection. I'm not so interested in this that I'd leap to do such a study--not when the only basis for an effect is hearsay.

It's sort of like one person saying, "5 Stacks or more of Snatch decrease damage dealt by mobs by 1%!" There's no basis for such a claim, but I can't disprove it without an inordinate amount of effort. Does that mean we should believe it? No!

Unregistered
05-14-2017, 03:13 PM
Im not arguing that "ability up" is worthless. I'm arguing that you provide wrong information: the only thing that Solomon gives to those SSR hime with multihit abilities that you speak of, is 8% ability up, and ONLY if devs "fix" assist abilities for souls (which they dont seem to care too much about, so basically right now Solomon provides literary no benefit for anyone except herself). Everything else (Roze's Ex, eidolons active/passives) can be stacked on any other soul and the result will be the same, minus 8% ability up, but instead you will get another passive as well as 3 useful abilities. What im trying to say, is that i can't see a single situation, in which Solomon would be more desirable than literary ANY other Soul. Yes, late game, when ill get 99999 Soul P i will prob unlock her, and lvl her up to 20, just to get my H-Scene and 50 jewels, but i seriously cant imagine a situation in which i would be like "man, if only i had Solomon, i wouldve beat this boss/beat this boss faster/survived this attack"

The fact about assist was my mistake, I admitted it. There is a reason, why I mentioned the EX from rosenkreuz, because solomon isn't designed to be the group buffer.
I pointed solomon, because she would fit best into a team, if someone is focused on ability damage up.
Solomon provides herself a lot ability up, so she can reach 90% ability up easily. In this case she has doubled the damage of her "solomonring", which seems to be weak at low-mid game.
At endgame, you will have high character attk up due to maxed weapons, over +100% is normal, then attk up buffs become less and less efficient. The 90% ability damage up is not affected by the character attk up, because it has its own multiplier. At endgame with 10x fully maxed weapons for a single element, 20% attack up buff may give you less than 5% true damage increase. Just imaging how good is solomonring, if its damage is doubled at this level?!
Solomonring can reach its cap of 80k each hit. 6hits= 480k damage... and it requires much less than other skills reaching this level due to solomon's own buff.
People were using this tactics for MVP stealing. (the cap for rosenkreuz is much lower, about 16k.)

The devs are not stupid. Why should they design a soul for nonsense?!

In general, there are only 2 must have souls: Mordred and Andro. With them you can clear any contents ingame. If you can't, then you can't clear the content with other souls either.


All others like Arthur, siegfried, solomon, shingen etc are nice to have, but not necessary. They are mostly used for MVP-stealing.
It depends on your personal playstyle and the SSRs you got, which one should be used.

Have fun with Full burst boom effect?! then Arthur or Shingen (you cannot unlock Shingen with normal soul points...)

Like first turn burst damage using abilities? then solomon.

Combo/triple/double hits for the win?! Then Morgan (Also this one cannot be unlocked with normal soul points...)

buff buff buff buff buff.... and 1 mega hit?! Then Hercules.

Stun phase abusing?! Then Siegfried.

If you do events/raids frequently, you'll complain a few months later, that there are no legendary to unlock anymore.
You will get only 1 more legendary (hercules), which will need soul points for unlocking.

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The fact about assist was my mistake, I admitted it. There is a reason, why I mentioned the EX from rosenkreuz, because solomon isn't designed to be the group buffer.
I pointed solomon, because she would fit best into a team, if someone is focused on ability damage up.
Solomon provides herself a lot ability up, so she can reach 90% ability up easily. In this case she has doubled the damage of her "solomonring", which seems to be weak at low-mid game.
At endgame, you will have high character attk up due to maxed weapons, over +100% is normal, then attk up buffs become less and less efficient. The 90% ability damage up is not affected by the character attk up, because it has its own multiplier. At endgame with 10x fully maxed weapons for a single element, 20% attack up buff may give you less than 5% true damage increase. Just imaging how good is solomonring, if its damage is doubled at this level?!
Solomonring can reach its cap of 80k each hit. 6hits= 480k damage... and it requires much less than other skills reaching this level due to solomon's own buff.
People were using this tactics for MVP stealing. (the cap for rosenkreuz is much lower, about 16k.)

The devs are not stupid. Why should they design a soul for nonsense?!

In general, there are only 2 must have souls: Mordred and Andro. With them you can clear any contents ingame. If you can't, then you can't clear the content with other souls either.


All others like Arthur, siegfried, solomon, shingen etc are nice to have, but not necessary. They are mostly used for MVP-stealing.
It depends on your personal playstyle and the SSRs you got, which one should be used.

Have fun with Full burst boom effect?! then Arthur or Shingen (you cannot unlock Shingen with normal soul points...)

Like first turn burst damage using abilities? then solomon.

Combo/triple/double hits for the win?! Then Morgan (Also this one cannot be unlocked with normal soul points...)

buff buff buff buff buff.... and 1 mega hit?! Then Hercules.

Stun phase abusing?! Then Siegfried.

If you do events/raids frequently, you'll complain a few months later, that there are no legendary to unlock anymore.
You will get only 1 more legendary (hercules), which will need soul points for unlocking.

A typo> 160k ability damage cap rosenkreuz, 40k each hit max.

sanahtlig
05-14-2017, 03:21 PM
The devs are not stupid. Why should they design a soul for nonsense?!
Game balance is actually a non-trivial element of game design. It's not uncommon in games for individual skills and even entire classes to be relatively weaker or even so situational as to be mostly useless. Perfect balance is impossible. What developers usually strive for is to ensure there are multiple viable routes to complete an objective--not that all routes are equally effective. Game balance in free-to-play games is particularly problematic because users pay for gameplay advantages, and adjusting those on the fly will quickly alienate your player base.

felix
05-14-2017, 03:34 PM
The fact about assist was my mistake, I admitted it. There is a reason, why I mentioned the EX from rosenkreuz, because solomon isn't designed to be the group buffer.
I pointed solomon, because she would fit best into a team, if someone is focused on ability damage up.
Solomon provides herself a lot ability up, so she can reach 90% ability up easily. In this case she has doubled the damage of her "solomonring", which seems to be weak at low-mid game.
At endgame, you will have high character attk up due to maxed weapons, over +100% is normal, then attk up buffs become less and less efficient. The 90% ability damage up is not affected by the character attk up, because it has its own multiplier. At endgame with 10x fully maxed weapons for a single element, 20% attack up buff may give you less than 5% true damage increase. Just imaging how good is solomonring, if its damage is doubled at this level?!
Solomonring can reach its cap of 80k each hit. 6hits= 480k damage... and it requires much less than other skills reaching this level due to solomon's own buff.
People were using this tactics for MVP stealing. (the cap for rosenkreuz is much lower, about 16k.)


Ok, i can see your point. That amount of dmg on 6 turn cooldown (or less, if you take in consideration -Xturn on ability cooldown like last light SSR hime) is impressive, no questions here. My problem with her (and that's just my personal issue with her) is that she does nothing for the team. Dealing dmg is cool, but there are other dmg-focused souls, that are ALSO do something for the team, be it Atk buff and +10 to burst gauge from Arthur, or increased gauge reduction on entire team from Sieg, etc, etc. But yeah, i suppose, if you have utility himes and no dmg dealer, you could use her... Personally though, i would probably use Sieg, if i wanted huge dmg, but to each their own.
P.S. If only her ring would deal weapon dmg 6 times rather than 1 hit of each element...
P.P.S would still like to see video of DMM players using Solomon on any of the "end game" content, like accessory farming or ragnarok solo. If you have a link, that would be appreciated XD

sanahtlig
05-14-2017, 03:39 PM
P.P.S would still like to see video of DMM players using Solomon on any of the "end game" content, like accessory farming or ragnarok solo. If you have a link, that would be appreciated XD
You know that someone would take up the challenge just to show they could, even if it was non-optimal. That wouldn't actually prove anything.

felix
05-14-2017, 03:43 PM
You know that someone would take up the challenge just to show they could, even if it was non-optimal. That wouldn't actually prove anything.

that would entertain me, and thats what matters ;)

fucka
05-14-2017, 04:12 PM
Let me rephrase my current understanding of this to avoid propagating more speculation: I see no evidence that assist abilities affect the entire team (DMM or Nutaku version). That is not evidence that they DON'T. 8% is such a small buff, and the random modifiers on ability damage are so large (not to mention all the potential confounding variables), that reliably spotting such a small effect statistically is actually pretty difficult and would require some dedicated data collection. I'm not so interested in this that I'd leap to do such a study--not when the only basis for an effect is hearsay.

It's sort of like one person saying, "5 Stacks or more of Snatch decrease damage dealt by mobs by 1%!" There's no basis for such a claim, but I can't disprove it without an inordinate amount of effort. Does that mean we should believe it? No!

Generally Assist skills buff the whole group. In case of rosenkreuz/solomon, they only buff themselves.

The main damage ability of solomon is solomonring. It does only 0.80-0.85x dmg each hit. This small multiplier seems to be weak at early-mid game, but benefits strongly from ability up in the late-game, once people have significant boost from attk up and element up.

Damage increase on paper
solomonring: 8% / 0.80 = 10%
an ability with damage multiplier 5x, 8% / 5 = 1.6%


For comparison, what does 20% attk up buff means, if +100% attk up and +80% element up are reached? (max. possible 160% and 200%+ atm)

weapon x element x ability x hits
(1+100%) x (1+80%) x 0.80 x 6 = 17.28 ( solomon ring no other buff)
(1+100%) x (1+80%) x 5 x 1 = 18 (shiva's single nuke no other buff, higher than solomonring )

20% attk up buff:
(1+100%+20%) x (1+80%) x 0.80 x 6 = 19.008 ---> about 10% real increase (solomon ring)
(1+100%+20%) x (1+80%) x 5 = 19.8 ---> about 10% real increase (shiva's nuke)

8% ability up
(1+100%) x (1+80%) x (0.80+8%) x 6 = 19.008 ---> about 10% real increase too, wonder?!
Solomonring gains 10% real damage increase with only 8% ability up, and that 8% is equal to 20% attk up buff. (big buff of Arthur for instance)

but what about a standard 1hit ability?
(1+100%) x (1+80%) x (5+8%) = 18.288 ---> only 1.6% real increase to non-buff state...

A strong single hit ability benefits less from that 8% ability up. 5x damage is almost best for this kind of ability, but it gets topped by solomonring with only 8% ability up. 18.288 < 19.008.

The math doesn't consider type advantages. Solomonring has all elements, only 1 of 6 hits can hit weakness. in case of type advantage, single element is still better.
The math only shows, how good ability up is scaled with abilities such as solomonring in endgame.




This game is balanced in Endgame content. The devs know, what they do.

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You know that someone would take up the challenge just to show they could, even if it was non-optimal. That wouldn't actually prove anything.

and I think you and felix are smart enough to understand the simple math :), hm, felix, maybe not...
If you think anything is illogical, I'm all ears.

felix
05-14-2017, 04:22 PM
don' act like 3 years old. This is a game for adult.


smart enough to understand the simple math :), hm, felix, maybe not...

hm, irony much?

fucka
05-14-2017, 04:29 PM
hm, irony much?

Oh, I'm sorry, Irony off.

I really believe, you have stolen your daddy's credit card and ID for playing game like this.
Irony on, again.

felix
05-14-2017, 04:37 PM
I really believe, you have stolen your daddy's credit card and ID for playing game like this.

Ooooh, it burns sooo goood...
You gonna add some steam? I prefer saunas.

fucka
05-14-2017, 04:41 PM
Ooooh, it burns sooo goood...
You gonna add some steam? I prefer saunas.

What about return to school and learn a bit low-class math, so you could understand post #33 at least, then we keep talking? Or are you brain damaged by too "much" steam?

felix
05-14-2017, 04:51 PM
What about return to school and learn a bit low-class math, so you could understand post #33 at least, then we keep talking? Or are you brain damaged by too "much" steam?

how about you point at evidence of me not understanding post #33? To my knowledge, I haven't wrote anything to argue with your calculations... Are you having hallucinations? Go see a doctor maybe?

fucka
05-14-2017, 05:05 PM
how about you point at evidence of me not understanding post #33? To my knowledge, I haven't wrote anything to argue with your calculations... Are you having hallucinations? Go see a doctor maybe?

That's a little math to show, how "shit" solomon's skills are, just like you stated, but math isn't really your strength. Why are you wasting your time for this kind of discussion anyway?
Go and hallucinate some boobs, in this case, you won't need a doctor for your problem. :)

sanahtlig
05-14-2017, 05:15 PM
Generally Assist skills buff the whole group. In case of rosenkreuz/solomon, they only buff themselves.

*Long lecture about Solomon's Ring*
I don't actually care all that much about Solomon's Ring, though the explanation about how ability damage modifiers affect skills with damage multipliers was useful. As usual, the game mechanics are needlessly unintuitive, and it's left to players to figure out how they actually work. But my takeaway from this isn't that ability up modifiers are good--it's that other modifiers scale terribly. In the end, a good modifier becoming less good over time doesn't make a bad modifier good. It's still bad; it's just that the alternatives are now worse. But I've also been saying for a while now that temporary character attack buffs are overrated.

But I'm more interested in where this assumption comes from that assist skills buff the whole group. Where's the evidence / what's the source for this?

felix
05-14-2017, 05:21 PM
That's a little math to show, how "shit" solomon's skills are, just like you stated

yeah, but after reading your detailed explanation in post #28, i wrote post #30, which you apparently didn't bother to read, since that's where I admit, that solomonring is not as shitty as i gave it credit


but math isn't really your strength.

That's quite presumptuous. Do you know me? Are you my calculus teacher? Just because i cant be bothered to do math in this game, it isn't my strength? Great logic there.


Why are you wasting your time for this kind of discussion anyway?

Because your responses entertain me.


Go and hallucinate some boobs, in this case, you won't need a doctor for your problem. :)

Ooooh, you got me there, this sentence makes as much sense as your logic, and that's quite an achievement.

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But I'm more interested in where this assumption comes from that assist skills buff the whole group. Where's the evidence / what's the source for this?

I'm pretty sure it comes from tutorial popup when you enter a menu for the first time (i think it was a tutorial on 1st opening of "edit" menu). I might be wrong here, but i believe it says there that assist skills do affect whole group. gona create new account to double check.
No, nevermind, it doesnt say anything about assist skills.

fucka
05-14-2017, 06:17 PM
I don't actually care all that much about Solomon's Ring, though the explanation about how ability damage modifiers affect skills with damage multipliers was useful. As usual, the game mechanics are needlessly unintuitive, and it's left to players to figure out how they actually work. But my takeaway from this isn't that ability up modifiers are good--it's that other modifiers scale terribly. In the end, a good modifier becoming less good over time doesn't make a bad modifier good. It's still bad; it's just that the alternatives are now worse. But I've also been saying for a while now that temporary character attack buffs are overrated.

But I'm more interested in where this assumption comes from that assist skills buff the whole group. Where's the evidence / what's the source for this?

Solomon's ring is an example for its kind. Susanoo's first ability hits 8x times, Brahma's first hits 8x times too. Soul is free, SSR kamis...only with luck.

Basically, all true effects of buffs are easily to calculate. Attk buff % / (1+weapon buff%) = real %,
so 20% attk buff and 100% weapon assault buff give 20% / 2 = 10%. If 160%, then 20% / 2.6 = 7.6%

For ability buff, you need to take the ability damage multiplier as divisor.
20% ability up / ability damage multiplier = real %, solomon's ring gets less than 1. It's weak actually and it doesn't benefit much from type advantage. Only later, when other buffs get their Diminishing Return, this ability will shine.

Assist ability is weird. As far as I read, All soul's assists only buff themselves and kami's assist applies to the whole group, when active (not in the sub slot) I got the information from chinese forum, based on their own calculation.

The real % for description "small, middle and big" are all different, big could mean 20% or 30%... DMM also often changes parameters and there are cap for the damage, that a kami/soul can deal with their ability... Even some SRs can do incredible damage under certain circumstance, their potential is limited, because they will hit their cap. The cap for SSR is much higher than SR.

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yeah, but after reading your detailed explanation in post #28, i wrote post #30, which you apparently didn't bother to read, since that's where I admit, that solomonring is not as shitty as i gave it credit



That's quite presumptuous. Do you know me? Are you my calculus teacher? Just because i cant be bothered to do math in this game, it isn't my strength? Great logic there.



Because your responses entertain me.



Ooooh, you got me there, this sentence makes as much sense as your logic, and that's quite an achievement.

- - - Updated - - -



I'm pretty sure it comes from tutorial popup when you enter a menu for the first time (i think it was a tutorial on 1st opening of "edit" menu). I might be wrong here, but i believe it says there that assist skills do affect whole group. gona create new account to double check.
No, nevermind, it doesnt say anything about assist skills.

You are entertaining me too. Someone got beaten by elementary school's math. Words are inaccurate, figure is exact,
so figure >>> mememememememememememe, mememememmeememe, memememememememe.
There is good reason, why you intended to avoid the post #33 and return to those shit talk without any sense. I offer you the chance to contribute some constructive information, but it seems you can nothing else than shit talking.

So keep entertaining yourself :D, you really need it. Topic closed.

felix
05-14-2017, 06:35 PM
There is good reason, why you intended to avoid the post #33

Are you serious? Avoid post? Ok, lets take a look at post #33... Hmmm... Your math is correct! Great job! What else do you want to hear? I already stated in the post before yours that Solomon can do dmg with her skill, so your entire post was unnecessary (you proved a point to which i already agreed... Let me give you an example

- 5*5=25
- Ok, i agree.
- No, look at this detailed explanation about why 5*5=25...
- Relax, i said i agree with you.
- No, you dont, i need to prove to you even further, that 5*5 is indeed = 25...

And that's the reason why i "avoided" it: there's nothing to say about it. Oh, i get it: you want me to praise you like our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ for posting some math calculations? Well sorry, I'm an atheist and don't praise no gods.

P.S. You were the one to start shittalking...


Can't you read?! .

And you were the one to return to shittalking...

I think you and felix are smart enough to understand the simple math :), hm, felix, maybe not...

So joke's on you, smartass.

fucka
05-14-2017, 06:58 PM
Are you serious? Avoid post? Ok, lets take a look at post #33... Hmmm... Your math is correct! Great job! What else do you want to hear? I already stated in the post before yours that Solomon can do dmg with her skill, so your entire post was unnecessary (you proved a point to which i already agreed... Let me give you an example

- 5*5=25
- Ok, i agree.
- No, look at this detailed explanation about why 5*5=25...
- Relax, i said i agree with you.
- No, you dont, i need to prove to you even further, that 5*5 is indeed = 25...

And that's the reason why i "avoided" it: there's nothing to say about it. Oh, i get it: you want me to praise you like our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ for posting some math calculations? Well sorry, I'm an atheist and don't praise no gods.

P.S. You were the one to start shittalking...



And you were the one to return to shittalking...


So joke's on you, smartass.

After 5 hours u finally find out that 5*5=25 and 25=5*5, I'm proud of you. Elementary school level, just like I said.
But you still miss the point, because the simple math is used to show how the ability scales with buff, and not how the math works :)
Im glad u have used 5 hours to understand the math. 3 years old kids need longer. You have reach the level of 8. you see, how fast you are growing up?!

Mememememe, good for you know?

felix
05-14-2017, 07:07 PM
After 5 hours u finally find out that 5*5=25 and 25=5*5, I'm proud of you. Elementary school level, just like I said.
But you still miss the point, because the simple math is used to show how the ability scales with buff, and not how the math works :)
Im glad u have used 5 hours to understand the math. 3 years old kids need longer. You have reach the level of 8. you see, how fast you are growing up?!

Mememememe, good for you know?

This post in its entirety is shittalk and you accuse me of "only shittalking"? Hilarious.

On the serious note, you are the one who missed the point: check post #30. I said, i get your point about the scaling and how damaging solomonring is. Yet you continued to post all those math calculations... For what purpose? To prove the point to which i already agreed to? "simple math is used to show how the ability scales with buff" Ok, i get it. I got it even before you posted #33. What now? Do you want me to write an official statement about how fully i agree with your point? Sorry, not gonna happen.

Yusuke
05-14-2017, 07:46 PM
4692


Just watching

jazz154
05-14-2017, 07:53 PM
So in short, Solomon is little less useless than it seems to be when you see her first time but still useless.
I just don't see why would I take her over any other soul.

fucka
05-14-2017, 08:04 PM
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This post in its entirety is shittalk and you accuse me of "only shittalking"? Hilarious.

On the serious note, you are the one who missed the point: check post #30. I said, i get your point about the scaling and how damaging solomonring is. Yet you continued to post all those math calculations... For what purpose? To prove the point to which i already agreed to? "simple math is used to show how the ability scales with buff" Ok, i get it. I got it even before you posted #33. What now? Do you want me to write an official statement about how fully i agree with your point? Sorry, not gonna happen.
u want to say is that Solomon does nothing for group and Arthur provides group buff. And All Solomon self buffs are useless because her active ability does moderate damage. I never miss your point.

Your assumption is true as long as your weapons and equipments are low.

All Sr assault weapons at lvl20 skill up give 130% character attack up, that means the 20% attk up would be cut by more than half, so lower than 10%. And 8% ability up seems to be low but in fact it's better than the figure shows to you. That's the reason why I use math to explain it.
Solomon''s self ability buffs aren't affected by high character attack up. And ability buffs work only good for skills like Solomon's ring.
If you have kamis with 8hits ability and use eidolons + friend providing ability up, Arthur won't benefit a little from it, because he is focused on burst.
On the other hand you are able to double Solomon's ring damage which is immposible through other buffs. The ability is able to hit 480k damage cap.
What's the purpose if you use Arthur in a team which is focused on ability damage up?! In that team setup solomons ability hits more than Arthur burst attack...

If you have trouble beating a boss because the damage is too low, neither Arthur nor Solomon can compete with mordred and andro.

I also wrote Arthur, Solomon, Siegfried etc are nice to have but not necessary, because they are mostly used for MVP stealing in raids. You could use 1 turn ability burst with Solomon, which is really flexible, or burst and standard team with Arthur. It depends on the ssrs and eidolon u get in game.
I wrote you need specific requirements if you want to use Solomon. Should I repeat "specific requirements " 50000x times for you?
And which requirements are needed, I guess I have explained enough...

Did I claim something wrong, if I said you can't read?!

sanahtlig
05-14-2017, 08:11 PM
Assist ability is weird. As far as I read, All soul's assists only buff themselves and kami's assist applies to the whole group, when active (not in the sub slot) I got the information from chinese forum, based on their own calculation.
The best way to test this would be to assemble a group of kamihime, all with attack increase assist skills, and see if this increases the damage the soul does (vs. a group with 4 kamihime with no assist skills that influence damage, or a group that only includes the soul). Theoretically a stacking buff from 4 kamihime, even if the individual buffs were small, would add up to a very significant effect that would be readily observable. To maximize the relative effect, the soul should have no buffs from assault skill (so change the soul's element accordingly). Obviously the tests would have to be run on the same enemy (like a Disaster boss), since different enemies could have different base defense values.

Assuming a cumulative effect of at least 20% or so, 10-20 normal attacks each in the experiment and control group should be sufficient to spot it statistically.

felix
05-14-2017, 08:17 PM
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u want to say is that Solomon does nothing for group and Arthur provides group buff. And All Solomon self buffs are useless because her active ability does moderate damage. I never miss your point.

Your assumption is true as long as your weapons and equipments are low.

All Sr assault weapons at lvl20 skill up give 130% character attack up, that means the 20% attk up would be cut by more than half, so lower than 10%. And 8% ability up seems to be low but in fact it's better than the figure shows to you. That's the reason why I use math to explain it.
Solomon''s self ability buffs aren't affected by high character attack up. And ability buffs work only good for skills like Solomon's ring.
If you have kamis with 8hits ability and use eidolons + friend providing ability up, Arthur won't benefit a little from it, because he is focused on burst.
On the other hand you are able to double Solomon's ring damage which is immposible through other buffs. The ability is able to hit 480k damage cap.
What's the purpose if you use Arthur in a team which is focused on ability damage up?! In that team setup solomons ability hits more than Arthur burst attack...

If you have trouble beating a boss because the damage is too low, neither Arthur nor Solomon can compete with mordred and andro.

I also wrote Arthur, Solomon, Siegfried etc are nice to have but not necessary, because they are mostly used for MVP stealing in raids. You could use 1 turn ability burst with Solomon, which is really flexible, or burst and standard team with Arthur. It depends on the ssrs and eidolon u get in game.
I wrote you need specific requirements if you want to use Solomon. Should I repeat "specific requirements " 50000x times for you?
And which requirements are needed, I guess I have explained enough...

Did I claim something wrong, if I said you can't read?!

As i stated in post #30, i acknowledge your points and i agree that Solomon is capable of dealing massive damage in right situation. I also stated that me, liking Arthur or any other soul over Solomon is my PERSONAL OPINION. I just dont like such a narrow specialization of Solomon, i'd rather have someone who can benefit everyone, even if marginally, but again, its PERSONAL PREFERENCE. Ok, fine, she can do deeps up her ass, i just dont like her, its personal opinion, im not saying you have to agree with me. You like her? You play her. I dont like her, im not gonna play her. I did withdraw my statement that her skills are shit, so there was no point in posting all those math calculations, at that point they are not proving anything, simply because everything is already proven.

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The best way to test this would be to assemble a group of kamihime, all with attack increase assist skills, and see if this increases the damage the soul does (vs. a group with 4 kamihime with no assist skills that influence damage, or a group that only includes the soul). Theoretically a stacking buff from 4 kamihime, even if the individual buffs were small, would add up to a very significant effect that would be readily observable. To maximize the relative effect, the soul should have no buffs from assault skill (so change the soul's element accordingly). Obviously the tests would have to be run on the same enemy (like a Disaster boss), since different enemies could have different base defense values.


As far as i know, kamihime assist skills work on everyone (at least according to the fact that people praise Bastet for her assist "dark character HP up" working, even when shes on the sideline.) Question is whether or not Soul's assist skills work...

sanahtlig
05-14-2017, 08:28 PM
As far as i know, kamihime assist skills work on everyone (at least according to the fact that people praise Bastet for her assist "dark character HP up" working, even when shes on the sideline.) Question is whether or not Soul's assist skills work...
Test with Arthur then and record the damage of a specific kamihime and Arthur simultaneously. Arthur's passive attack buff should be significant enough to spot by itself. Two birds with one stone.

Edit: Actually no, these tests would have to be done separately due to the confounding factors.

fucka
05-14-2017, 08:31 PM
So in short, Solomon is little less useless than it seems to be when you see her first time but still useless.
I just don't see why would I take her over any other soul.

For standard build and in most cases not.

Mordred and andro are for me must have. They are best for progressing in game facing high difficulty content without op equipments. And all the flames on me, just because I want to show how to use solomon correctly with specific SSRs and why her ability is not as weak as people believe when endgame is reached.

felix
05-14-2017, 08:38 PM
Test with Arthur then and record the damage of a specific kamihime and Arthur simultaneously. Arthur's passive attack buff should be significant enough to spot by itself. Two birds with one stone.

Edit: Actually no, these tests would have to be done separately due to the confounding factors.

You think 5% atk increase is noticeable enough in fluctuating damage numbers? Easiest way would be to wait until Shingen, since increase in burst gauge rise amount should be obvious to see.

fucka
05-14-2017, 08:56 PM
[QUOTE=felix;73517]As i stated in post #30, i acknowledge your points and i agree that Solomon is capable of dealing massive damage in right situation. I also stated that me, liking Arthur or any other soul over Solomon is my PERSONAL OPINION. I just dont like such a narrow specialization of Solomon, i'd rather have someone who can benefit everyone, even if marginally, but again, its PERSONAL PREFERENCE. Ok, fine, she can do deeps up her ass, i just dont like her, its personal opinion, im not saying you have to agree with me. You like her? You play her. I dont like her, im not gonna play her. I did withdraw my statement that her skills are shit, so there was no point in posting all those math calculations, at that point they are not proving anything, simply because everything is already proven.

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Dear Felix,
You were already attacking me verbally in your very first post due to your hatred to her, because I wrote she isn't as weak as a lot people suggested.

I have no personal favor for any specific soul. My order of unlocking is andro -> mordred -> ??? , because I didn't reroll for Sol. If I got Sol, I may start with mordred first. Next one only depends on what I get from gasha.
Sooner or later u would like unlock all souls due to their ex and mastery bonus.

I really consider to use Solomon+Rosen ex if I could get bramha in the future. the strongest ability hitter ingame dealing 600k+ in one turn... no other soul fits the play style better.

felix
05-14-2017, 09:00 PM
Dear Felix,
You were already attacking me verbally in your very first post due to your hatred to her, because I wrote she isn't as weak as a lot people suggested.

Ok, to my defense, i never expected, that expressing my opinion (even if negative) toward fictional character would be considered by anyone as "verbally attacking" real person who is reading it, but whatever. It is never my intention to start a shitwar("fire only if fired upon" is my policy here), so i do apologize if i indeed offended you.

fucka
05-14-2017, 09:11 PM
You think 5% atk increase is noticeable enough in fluctuating damage numbers? Easiest way would be to wait until Shingen, since increase in burst gauge rise amount should be obvious to see.


Ok, to my defense, i never expected, that expressing my opinion (even if negative) toward fictional character would be considered by anyone as "verbally attacking" real person who is reading it, but whatever. It is never my intention to start a shitwar("fire only if fired upon" is my policy here), so i do apologize if i indeed offended you.

about time to end the shitwar.
I think, we all are here, because we want to provide support and help to others, we actually follow the same goal.

To "assist skills" of soul
Chinese translation describes clearly "only to herself" for the first passive and 2nd passive always linked to her 3rd active ability. So Not for the group either.
If they weren't sure, they wouldn't add "only to herself"

felix
05-14-2017, 09:29 PM
ok, found a recent video of party with Shingen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUZplSCkJGQ Shingen's assist is increasing burst gauge rise amount, but here we can clearly see that other hime only get 10 burst points per hit while Shingen herself in first round gained 25 for double attack, so 12.5 per attack. Considering thats video from april this year, its safe to assume that devs dont give a fk that assist skills for Souls dont affect other party members.

jazz154
05-14-2017, 09:34 PM
For standard build and in most cases not.

Mordred and andro are for me must have. They are best for progressing in game facing high difficulty content without op equipments. And all the flames on me, just because I want to show how to use solomon correctly with specific SSRs and why her ability is not as weak as people believe when endgame is reached.

Specific circumstances... I am grateful that you show us that she can be used when you met requirements for her. I am sure that people that love Solomon will be happy to know this.

But for me it doesn't really change order of how useful souls are. Putting aside Mordred and Andromeda. Joan can mitigate damage from enemy burst, have regen and can debuff enemy. Siegfried have crazy burst damage on stunned enemies. D'Art have sniper shoot and... well... snatch... Surely for some people it's a plus. Arthur have 0-> 100 burst, it's helpful to use it on first to get that extra 10% for everyone else and with it it's easier to get full burst.

I am not sure how Morgana and Hercules will fare, but Shingen is also better choice, with her boost 200% to burst damage she will be fun.

So I don't see any reason (except if like how she looks) to go out of your way to unlock her. Will I unlock her? Only if I have spare soul points.

fucka
05-14-2017, 09:38 PM
You think 5% atk increase is noticeable enough in fluctuating damage numbers? Easiest way would be to wait until Shingen, since increase in burst gauge rise amount should be obvious to see.


Ok, to my defense, i never expected, that expressing my opinion (even if negative) toward fictional character would be considered by anyone as "verbally attacking" real person who is reading it, but whatever. It is never my intention to start a shitwar("fire only if fired upon" is my policy here), so i do apologize if i indeed offended you.


ok, found a recent video of party with Shingen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUZplSCkJGQ Shingen's assist is increasing burst gauge rise amount, but here we can clearly see that other hime only get 10 burst points per hit while Shingen herself in first round gained 25 for double attack, so 12.5 per attack. Considering thats video from april this year, its safe to assume that devs dont give a fk that assist skills for Souls dont affect other party members.

correct. The English wiki seems to be wrong. I got answers that all assist skills only apply to herself (both soul and kami). Only exception is that type specific hp up.

sanahtlig
05-14-2017, 10:27 PM
correct. The English wiki seems to be wrong. I got answers that all assist skills only apply to herself (both soul and kami). Only exception is that type specific hp up.
Yeah, I told you that English wiki isn't a reliable source of info--this isn't the first error I've seen. It was an English wiki of a Japanese language game that hasn't been updated since June or so of last year, so not surprising that it didn't get enough traffic / attention to fix errors. But thanks for verifying.

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So I don't see any reason (except if like how she looks) to go out of your way to unlock her. Will I unlock her? Only if I have spare soul points.
I'll soon have 5/7 legendaries unlocked, so that looks to be soon.

fucka
05-15-2017, 04:07 AM
The confirmation i could get is that Assist skills providing combo hit/double/triple, Defense up and attack up should only apply to the kami/soul herself.
Some special effects affect the whole group, there are usually weak or limited in use.
If a kami's assist provides attack up permanently for the whole group, then it should be a bug, unless it is described as those.

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I'll soon have 5/7 legendaries unlocked, so that looks to be soon.
3-4 events more, you will be done :)

Ok Hercules, 2 more events then.

Unregistered
05-17-2017, 11:20 AM
I thought arthur is f2p friendly.

AgentFakku
05-17-2017, 01:59 PM
work my way up from Standard

lightwolf
05-17-2017, 02:35 PM
I thought arthur is f2p friendly.

She is for unlocking because shes easy for casual players to unlock. She's also a solid damage dealer, but in raids/advents unless you have overwhelming firepower, usually you need some rage control and she's not good at that.

Aidoru
05-17-2017, 05:46 PM
It's not that she's easy for casual players or 'f2p friendly', it's that you start with Lancelot by default and following her tree leads to Arthur. People will generally unlock Gawain instead of leveling the rest of the free standard souls first.

Unregistered
05-19-2017, 05:41 AM
on a side note

regarding kami, im sitting with Sol, Amaterasu and Aphrodite, few SR as well

the question is, im still massing SP and didnt unlock any of elite souls.. thinking of doing Siegfried..

any advices? mb Mordred?

TNinja
05-19-2017, 11:18 AM
She is for unlocking because shes easy for casual players to unlock. She's also a solid damage dealer, but in raids/advents unless you have overwhelming firepower, usually you need some rage control and she's not good at that.
She has anti ailment or warrior lineage

lightwolf
05-19-2017, 06:59 PM
on a side note

regarding kami, im sitting with Sol, Amaterasu and Aphrodite, few SR as well

the question is, im still massing SP and didnt unlock any of elite souls.. thinking of doing Siegfried..

any advices? mb Mordred?

Depends what you want to do. Do you want to run a single element or multiple. With your kamihime i would recommend running water (Generally considered the best element for f2p) with Sol as a potential if Aphrodite is not enough healing. Then get a damage type, Mord is a good type as she is overall useful but if you want to control the rage meter Sieg is your girl. As you have very supportive kamihime your soul needs to be a damage dealer.

Unregistered
05-19-2017, 07:45 PM
1.Andromeda: For survival
2.Gawain: DEF down(++)
3.Siegfried: High damage when the boss is stunned
4.Arthur: ATK up(++)
5.D'Artagnan: If you like snatch
6.Mordred: Extra skill helps Andromeda in a long hard fight

jazz154
05-19-2017, 11:52 PM
1.Andromeda: For survival
2.Gawain: DEF down(++)
3.Siegfried: High damage when the boss is stunned
4.Arthur: ATK up(++)
5.D'Artagnan: If you like snatch
6.Mordred: Extra skill helps Andromeda in a long hard fight

Just few things I would change:

4. The real thing that makes her worth (for me) is 0->100 burst.
5. Screw snatch, sniper shoot is best thing about her.
6. Black propaganda, decrease debuff resistance, and lots of debuffs (atk/def down 10%, burn, drown, curse, poison, blind, charm), I don't know about anyone else but for me that 20k from dots is great.

Unregistered
05-20-2017, 12:16 AM
Mordred is great for material dungeon farming, advent and solo raid, but annoying if you bring it to raid with anyone else becuz she decreases whole max PP gained from battle with her damage-overtime. damage from abnormal status didn't net you PP.

jazz154
05-20-2017, 12:24 AM
Mordred is great for material dungeon farming, advent and solo raid, but annoying if you bring it to raid with anyone else becuz she decreases whole max PP gained from battle with her damage-overtime. damage from abnormal status didn't net you PP.

The less damage other people can do = the less chance that they will overtake you as mvp. Besides 3k pp doesn't make any difference to me.

Unregistered
05-20-2017, 01:04 AM
The less damage other people can do = the less chance that they will overtake you as mvp. Besides 3k pp doesn't make any difference to me.
You're talking about expert, It's not 3k anymore in public ragnarok, just 10 guys causes a 100k+ HP loss for their 1 turn. But it's a good strategy to hold MVP position with faster battle (It rather fit her character very well, the betrayer).

arphael
05-21-2017, 11:00 PM
jean or sieg? :confused:

jazz154
05-22-2017, 07:40 AM
jean or sieg? :confused:

Do you want soul that can cut dmg by 40%, regen your hp and increase defence? Or do you want soul that deals increadible amount of damage to stunned enemy? It also depends on what you have in your team and what you need if it is your first soul, if it's your first one then you should know what you need.

I am facing same question and I am going with Jean because she will be more useful to me.

arphael
05-23-2017, 01:32 AM
Do you want soul that can cut dmg by 40%, regen your hp and increase defence? Or do you want soul that deals increadible amount of damage to stunned enemy? It also depends on what you have in your team and what you need if it is your first soul, if it's your first one then you should know what you need.

I am facing same question and I am going with Jean because she will be more useful to me.

I do not own any SSR KH lol, I already had Arthur, Andro and Mordred. Just wondering whats nice soul to unlock cz i have 500 soul point :D

jazz154
05-23-2017, 02:26 AM
I do not own any SSR KH lol, I already had Arthur, Andro and Mordred. Just wondering whats nice soul to unlock cz i have 500 soul point :D

Ehh... I was more thinking about R and SR... Truth is... it doesn't really matter what you unlock, eventually you will have them all, so going with whoever you like more is viable option.

If you don't want to go by how they look, then you can go with what use they are. Like I said: Jean can cut damage by 40%, debuff atk of enemy, apply regen and double atk increase chance. Siegfried on the other hand can deal very high dmg to stunned enemy.

Unregistered
05-23-2017, 03:41 AM
Ehh... I was more thinking about R and SR... Truth is... it doesn't really matter what you unlock, eventually you will have them all, so going with whoever you like more is viable option.

If you don't want to go by how they look, then you can go with what use they are. Like I said: Jean can cut damage by 40%, debuff atk of enemy, apply regen and double atk increase chance. Siegfried on the other hand can deal very high dmg to stunned enemy.
What is jean master skill?

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Ehh... I was more thinking about R and SR... Truth is... it doesn't really matter what you unlock, eventually you will have them all, so going with whoever you like more is viable option.

If you don't want to go by how they look, then you can go with what use they are. Like I said: Jean can cut damage by 40%, debuff atk of enemy, apply regen and double atk increase chance. Siegfried on the other hand can deal very high dmg to stunned enemy.
What is jean master skill?

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Ehh... I was more thinking about R and SR... Truth is... it doesn't really matter what you unlock, eventually you will have them all, so going with whoever you like more is viable option.

If you don't want to go by how they look, then you can go with what use they are. Like I said: Jean can cut damage by 40%, debuff atk of enemy, apply regen and double atk increase chance. Siegfried on the other hand can deal very high dmg to stunned enemy.

Cut damage is stackable with defense up and element resistant (Which works like C type defense up). So it's possible to reach 80+% damage reduce

Lag
05-23-2017, 07:46 AM
jean or sieg? :confused:

Hah. Seems like you are at the same impasse as I am.

http://i.imgur.com/M2fFLVG.jpg

Hard choices, hard choices...