Starter Pack Value

[Knave]

I was wondering if this was even useful to obtain. I have played nutaku for a while now and the recurring theme seems to be to get higher rarity units ASAP, so I usually get whatever starter deal is offered then just rely on reward currency for gacha. However, Aigis is very different. So far I have received 2 platinum and 3 gold units as rewards, but have only used Katie and Cyprea consistently. Iris has been used mainly on the endurance maps. I would guess that royal guard means Alicia is some kind of tank, which I haven't needed often enough to spend money for. My question is that part of the pack is 200 demon crystals, so are either Chydis, Viera or Hien worth oh-ing and ah-ing over? Since they are what is in the trading post. Thanks for any input.

[kayfabe]

By rewards are you referring to event units or do you mean the stuff you get for leveling up?

The starter pack is a solid value but not a must have. DCs are farmable but retain their value well since you need them to buy Awakening fodder. Spica and Chydis are both good enough that you're unlikely to quickly replace them without splashing some cash, in which case you might as well buy the pack and nab Alicia anyway since her pack is good value unless you only buy SC en masse.

[lolix]

By all means , alicia doesn't seem like a bad unit , but i simply dunno in what category i should place her. Sheseems to be able to tank , but at her cost you can place a real heavy. She can regen and boosts cavalry , which is also great and she can duel with her saw....but dunno. I guess you can use her as your offtank or gatekeeper for units that escaped your main tank's block....



Regardless of that , at 1400 nutaku gold , getting a plat unit is pretty damn good.
Considering that with that gold , you can get 15 scs at best , which means 3 premium summons and the probability of getting a plat unit from those 3 is rather low , i'd say its pretty damn good.

You'd need to spend 50 scs on average to get a shrine platinum , so getting one for the equivalent of 15 is great....and you still get 14 more SCs on top of a plat and some affection items as well as DCs.

[kayfabe]

Post SAW only 3 heavies are better tanks than Alicia and 2 of them are blacks while the other is a plat who has virtually no offensive presence when his skill is down and has literally zero offensive presence when his skill is up. Gellius has his place against the most elite super bosses but against practically everything else SAW Alicia is actually the more practical unit. She's basically Maribel if Maribel didn't kind of suck at life.

[lolix]

to be fair the game doesn't have that many good heavies outside of the 2 blacks , gellius and bernice which is a gold.

[Knave]

By rewards are you referring to event units or do you mean the stuff you get for leveling up?

The starter pack is a solid value but not a must have. DCs are farmable but retain their value well since you need them to buy Awakening fodder. Spica and Chydis are both good enough that you're unlikely to quickly replace them without splashing some cash, in which case you might as well buy the pack and nab Alicia anyway since her pack is good value unless you only buy SC en masse.

I mean the units you get for leveling up and completing the tutorials. Of those units Katie and Cypria are the only ones I have used every battle. Their cost and skills are great. Iris is best for the maps that swarm enemies, otherwise Alissa and Dorcas are plenty.Even Bashira, a platinum, needs her skill to be noticeably better than Soma and Daniela.

I see the Chydis is a caster, I have not used witches and mages much. But I am only up to Citadel Battle and have stopped to grind Deep Forest Road. Does she have a rare skill?

[Tenhou]

to be fair the game doesn't have that many good heavies outside of the 2 blacks , gellius and bernice which is a gold.

Because other classes totally have a ton more useful units outside of the odd black or two plus some plat and gold :P

Jokes aside, Alicia is a nice unit. Lacks some block if you need a blocker, but a solid tanky unit for most purposes.

You will get a free copy of Viera later so i would not put her at a high prio to get. People like me, who have a quite solid army, might want to look at CRing her though, since her eventual SAW turns her into a beast. Chydis is definitely a solid choice and if you have no other ninja, Hien is pretty nice (nothing to really go for asap though).

Edit:
And Chydis is a healer. Unless you are very lucky and get Camilla AND Elyse from the gacha, Chydis is your best choice.

Edit2:
I would also stress the fact that you're still quite early into the game. Most plat+ units WILL eventually make their difference from gold and silver units heard once they get some levels and they get some affection items. What is enough now won't necessarily be enough later.

Heck, the latest story map i needed 3 tanky units that could survive at least a 5,2k hit, along with healers to heal all 3 of them up before the next hit came in, to give you a perspective. Silvers and golds cannot do that :P

[lolix]

i know what u mean. Between cornelia which i've managed to SAW and anya , i rarely use heavies anymore for the simple fact that they are outdated. And while i do understand that this are 2 ultra defensive blacks , i still don't understand why heavy armors aren't the game's ultimate tanks. They should be. That's literally their role in the game. The fact that they aren't even the best at their role is rather bullshit.....

[kayfabe]

Yep, and DPS units have their own stat checks to deal with too. Basically, raw power in itself can make a unit a lot more versatile. For example, Soma is fine when you're a newbie but she'll never be...

[lolix]

Actually i agree with most of your point. I also hope the second awakening will give some decent options for heavies , but i kinda disagree on gellius model being unhealthy. I personally like what gelius does , and it's nothing wrong in doing 1 thing as long as you do that 1 thing really well. The problem apears when other classes that are better then you in other areas , are still better then you in what should be your speciallity.

[Tenhou]

The biggest problem really is that in a lot of cases you want your tank to be able to dish out some damage as well, so "classic" heavies won't be used too much. A second problem we have not bumped into much yet, but that does appear is the fact that heavies tank multiple units. If i bring up that last magic city map again, if i had put Deine in the middle to tank the first big golem, that'd be fine for that golem, but she would have eventually tanked both golems at once, killing her fast. Being able to tank more than one unit is often rather bad for endgame tanks since they do not want to take on the "boss" AND their underlings.

Heavies pretty much only exist to block tons of units, but in a lot of cases it's better to just kill said units faster with some unit that doesn't require their skill to deal good damage.

[ZeroZet]

Being able to tank more than one unit is often rather bad for endgame tanks since they do not want to take on the "boss" AND their underlings. Easy: Park Elyse nearby! Both of their SAWs give Deine a healthy 5k defense to tank anything (that is not ignoring defense) AND wreck all of their faces at the same time :p :cool:

Well, for all 30 seconds of Seismic Fist's duration, but yeah. ;)

[kayfabe]

The problem apears when other classes that are better then you in other areas , are still better then you in what should be your speciallity.

Nah, see, the cure to that is worse than the disease and the multiple tank classes genie is already out of the bottle. Like I said, tanking is a binary role. You can either take the hits or you can't and after that it becomes a question of what kind of utility you bring to the table. So you can't really have Heavies be a one trick pony AND heavily role protect their trick so they're meaningfully better AND still let other tanking classes be viable as mega boss tanks. That needle is just too fucking narrow to be threaded in a game where most of the top end tanks are already locked behind the gacha paywall. The last thing the average player needs is another unit to join Elyse in being virtually mandatory for majins. On a per player basis the game is more interesting and better balanced for having multiple viable tanks in the unit pool even if that means one trick pony tanks suffer a bit by comparison to the all-stars. Rolling any of that back would be unwise compared to simply acknowledging that high rarity heavies can and should be doing more than taking punches to the face, something which the devs thankfully seem to realize now. And fwiw, it's not like Bernice and Gellius have truly faded into obscurity, either. Being overly specialized isn't really a problem until you get to black tier units that are expected to carry teams on their back. Bernice and Gellius still have value because by tanking above their rarity tier they're very useful for free players, newbies or people who decided to chase other things with their gacha pulls. They're not always the best solutions, but sometimes you need to take what you can get and compared to Cornelia they're reasonably common.

[lolix]

and that can be easily done by making the heavy's defense scale on the number of units blocked.

You block 1 unit ? no additional boost. You tank multiple units ? You get a boost in defense power. That way some duelists or other end game tank units (that are not heavies) can still be the ones to tank solo bosses , while heavies still being the best overall tanks while facing multiple units. That way you don't have to overbuff heavies to the point where they are a step over everything in terms of tanking , even megabosses , but you don't have them fade into obscurity either by having them incapable of tanking 3 stronger then average units without heavy healer support.


How is this not a good ideea ?

[kayfabe]

It's not a terrible idea, but it'd be kinda odd that you might actually want to leave goblins and weenie shit alive when faced with a sufficiently mixed group so you have your buff against the big stuff. A niche use to be sure, but odd. It also invites the question of whether the devs actually want units blocking multiple tankbusters. My guess would be no but then again I'm not a mind reader.

[NotThatGuy]

and that can be easily done by making the heavy's defense scale on the number of units blocked.

You block 1 unit ? no additional boost. You tank multiple units ? You get a boost in defense power. That way some duelists or other end game tank units (that are not heavies) can still be the ones to tank solo bosses , while heavies still being the best overall tanks while facing multiple units. That way you don't have to overbuff heavies to the point where they are a step over everything in terms of tanking , even megabosses , but you don't have them fade into obscurity either by having them incapable of tanking 3 stronger then average units without heavy healer support.


How is this not a good ideea ?
Actually, I'd almost say that if they were to do something like that, it might be better to have it act as a debuff to incoming damage based on number of blocked enemies. The reason being that with how armour works, it can't reduce an enemy attack below 10%. Considering how high tank armour tends to be, many enemies are already dealing the minimum amount of damage. By reducing their attack rather than raising the defense of the tank, it would be able to reduce that damage below the normal minimum. Of course, this does still run into the problem kayfabe noted that it might result in the odd situation where you could tank something if there are also goblins attacking you, but not if it is alone. There is also the issue of if the attack debuff would be percent based or just a number, with potential issues for either.

[lolix]

c'mon people...how many mega bosses are there that spawn alongside goblins ? And most of the times you use a heavy , you will have some dps to clear the enemies.....and goblins are really easy to kill. Hell , even assuming no other dps is placed , the heavy can kill the goblins pretty fast because they are weak.


The only situation where goblins would be alive for a longer period of time , it would be if the first blocked unit would be a boss/megaboss....and honestly those don't tend to spwn before goblin spawn.

[starburst98]

well, to add two cents to the main topic, if you are buying crystals anyway then you have 0 reasons NOT to get the starter pack.

[kayfabe]

c'mon people...how many mega bosses are there that spawn alongside goblins ?
There's not that many goblin and megaboss combos but mummies are a reasonably common enemy and their entire shtick is that they come in waves and start out weak but turn into tankbusters if you try to AOE them down from behind a multi-blocker. A setup where you're corralling them with a heavy and carefully thinning the herd out with single target DPS is already common operating procedure and your proposed buff would very good in that scenario. Honestly, I don't really intend that as purely criticism of your idea, however--counter-intuitive solutions to problems are often an interesting feature in games rather than just a bug. Your idea hit me as interesting and I basically just started thinking out loud about odd ways such an ability could be used. The only real issue I have with your idea is the part where it implies you're envisioning a future where heavies can tank multiple heavy hitters and I'm unsure how far in that direction the devs are willing to go. After all, heavies can already do that... up to a point.

[AgentFakku]

I bought my Alicia since I needed to get to 150 SC spending last month

didn't use her

[lolix]

well , as i said , alicia doesn't seem bad at all even without saw. When she will have saw avaible she will be able to triple both her attack and defense (which is already similar to heavies) , so she is plenty good. She does a bit of everything (she regens , buffs cavalry , can tank , can duel with saw) so she's not a bad investment. Ofc , it depends on the other units you have

[Nero010]

Shes ok, no downgrade or anything. Once she gets her buff shes straight out better then Bernice in all cases may it be stats, cost, skill, class ability or whatever except you desperatly need 3 or 4 block. Which still many have as a core member.

[Unregistered]

1 plat for 50 SC :O i was more lucky than i thought i got 4 plats from around 50 SC but zero blacks ;_; and not even one of the plat is somewhat op (bowrider, magic armor, alchemist, witch fignelia) .

[lolix]

i have jessica atually , and i really love her. She is really good in swarm situations like the curent subjugation event. Fignelia is also a good witch overal , and sheryl is niche , but her skill could be quite good : reducing the defense of ALL enemies by 50% is good

The plat bowride is bad tho. I got it as well (my last 150 sc rolls gave me 2 plats , 1 of them being daisy) , and im really not impressed with her

[kayfabe]

Yeah, I wouldn't call Daisy outright terrible on paper but overall I find that most bowriders are just a hair too expensive/fragile to really stand out and a lot of their competition has guaranteed availability. They have better attack than an archer of the same tier but can be awkward to use as an early deploy because they cost more than archers and often want someone blocking for them ASAP. If they were a bit cheaper OR tough enough that the blocking was more often an asset I'd like them better but as it stands now the only bowrider I use is Rion over on DMM. The fact that Daisy eventually gets the ability to gatekeep a bit post SAW just ends up being too little, too late for me given that this game already features guaranteed Viera, umpteen different flavors of guaranteed/easily min-cost ninja* and the Black Knight if I want Physical support fire from a melee slot. So again, not terrible but you can basically fall ass backwards into viable alternatives, so I can't fault people for benching her.


*Okay, fine, they don't don't gatekeep yet but they do have some utility in that area post re-balancing.

[Knave]

Well. I will say the pack is worth the value to me. Level 40 platinum tank is alright. 200 crystals for Chydis has also been very helpful. But what really sold it is the 30 diamonds for stat boosting, nearly the best part.