Help on improving team for advance content

[darkace51]

I have been playing kamihime for a while and for the first few months it seemed that I was making steady progress on my team however for the last dozen or so event it seemed like my team had hit a brick wall in terms of progress. My strongest team which is dark seems to be on par with any one of my other significantly worst team when playing off-element. So my question is how do I improve my team to be able to consistently do these off-element events (advent ragnarok) without problems?

I attached my team and grids below. All the weapons are MLB except the lucifer sword which is only 1 star. All the SSR weapons are skill 20 except the lucifer sword which is skill 10. The SR weapons are also skill 10. Also all weapons should be max level meaning 125 for the MLB SSR weapons except the newest one which is lvl 100, 85 for the SR weapons except for the newest lance which is 60, and 75 for the lucifer sword.

Any suggestions for improving my team would help especially from those who had knowledge on the DMM version and what future progress would look like.

[sanahtlig]

What debuffs are you running? I only see one source of DEF down. If you don't have any other sources of ATK and DEF down, that'll be why you're struggling. You should probably run Joan with Sniper Shot, unless you're packing other Dark kamihime that can offer the missing skills you need. Unfortunately, that EX slot is probably going to be needed for Black Propaganda and situational skills on a regular basis. D'art is another option, which will at least give you full-time access to Sniper Shot.

I assume all those SR weapons are Assault skill? Maxing the assault skill on all your weapons will marginally increase your damage. But mostly, your issue is probably that you're lacking debuffs. Also, running Echidna is likely mildly hurting you as well, unless you got her to at least LB1.

[darkace51]

What debuffs are you running? I only see one source of DEF down. If you don't have any other sources of ATK and DEF down, that'll be why you're struggling. You should probably run Joan with Sniper Shot, unless you're packing other Dark kamihime that can offer the missing skills you need. Unfortunately, that EX slot is probably going to be needed for Black Propaganda and situational skills on a regular basis.

Yeah I kinda noticed that. I used to run Mordred with sniper shot instead of Andromeda but I noticed that I lacked the sustain from healing which made it a lot more difficult than without the debuff. I did try Joan with sniper shot too but that fared much worse than just using Andromeda or Mordred with my dark team.

The only other dark hime I have are Tsukiyomi and Astaroth. I was hoping I didn't to save up those jewels to try and roll for some debuff kamihime than. Trying to get Hades did not end well last time.

[Aidoru]

Seeing has how you have the scythe, I would assume you have Dullahan? Use her as a main instead of Echidna or remove Pheonix.

While you have a lot of firepower, your team lacks utilities, which will heavily rely on your soul. The problem here is you still need a healer.

What other himes do you have?

[bigblackcock]

Yeah I kinda noticed that. I used to run Mordred with sniper shot instead of Andromeda but I noticed that I lacked the sustain from healing which made it a lot more difficult than without the debuff. I did try Joan with sniper shot too but that fared much worse than just using Andromeda or Mordred with my dark team.

The only other dark hime I have are Tsukiyomi and Astaroth. I was hoping I didn't to save up those jewels to try and roll for some debuff kamihime than. Trying to get Hades did not end well last time.
why to use sniper shot with mordred? it's the same frame as mordred debuff (although mordred is much weaker)
as you have satan to for A frame defense debuff, i think arc's attack debuff will be nicer as extra skill with her.
anyway, you're using about the same team as me, you should aim for osiris as she can heal (about 1100 HP) it can be helpful to survive a bit :D

[sanahtlig]

I'd recommend aiming for these two SR kamihime, which you should be able to obtain without whaling (one from an event that's coming soon, the other from Gatcha):
http://xn--hckqz0e9cygq471ahu9b.xn--wiki-4i9hs14f.com/index.php?%E5%91%82%E5%B8%83%EF%BC%BB%E6%81%8B%EF% BC%BD
http://神姫プロジェクト.攻略wiki.com/index.php?%E3%83%8B%E3%83%A3%E3%83%AB%E3%83%A9%E3% 83%88%E3%83%9B%E3%83%86%E3%83%97

One of them provides an attack debuff, while the other provides a type B ATK/DEF debuff. Sub one or both of them in for your current SRs. That'd let you stick with Andromeda for healing.

[Naes]

I'd recommend aiming for these two SR kamihime, which you should be able to obtain without whaling (one from an event that's coming soon, the other from Gatcha):
i get being able to aim for the one from the event, but theres no real way to aim for the one in the gacha is there?

[Slashley]

+99 Phoenix? Unless you're specifically looking for HP, ouch.
Seeing has how you have the scythe, I would assume you have Dullahan? Use her as a main instead of Echidna or remove Pheonix. --Character atk instead of elemental atk Eidolon when he has full level 10-20 skill weapons? Apo or Echidna would both work better, no?

But yes, swapping to Apo and dropping Phoenix and Echidna should provide a minor boost.

There's already two high damage SSRs with basically-SSR-Beelz. As what others have said, all that is missing is B type debuffs and sustain, either in heals and/or A type -Atk down. It would be nice if you could use your Soul for that purpose, but sadly, for advanced content that's pretty much limited to Mordred only. Using Joan/Dart/Andromeda with Mordred's debuff might get you far, but not necessarily through everything. I'm guessing Mordred with Joan's -20% Atk A debuff would be the best for you, as is. That'd net you -30% Atk -25% Def, which is okay.

It looks like the options are quite limited there when it comes to Dark... Osiris coming out in one month would have heals, but good luck with that as it's SSR. And of course, Sol is completely broken and tends to solve all your problems on any team, but again, SSR. Darkness Amaterasu is coming out in ~two months and has Sniper Shot of her own, not to mention that she has Mordred's debuff too, which does solve all of your problems as it allows you to use Andromeda(/Cass for Dispel) for heals. But again, SSR! At least there's Nyarlotep in one~two weeks who'd have Atk -15% A debuff, who is SR.

[Unregistered]

why to use sniper shot with mordred? it's the same frame as mordred debuff (although mordred is much weaker)
as you have satan to for A frame defense debuff, i think arc's attack debuff will be nicer as extra skill with her.
anyway, you're using about the same team as me, you should aim for osiris as she can heal (about 1100 HP) it can be helpful to survive a bit :D

Oh you're right. I never noticed since I almost never use Mordred's first skill for its debuff effect. I'll try to Mordred with Arc's attack debuff than thanks. I am currently aiming for her but gatcha is unreliable, so I guess I need to wait till the miracle ticket for a guarantee Osiris than.

[darkace51]

I'd recommend aiming for these two SR kamihime, which you should be able to obtain without whaling (one from an event that's coming soon, the other from Gatcha):


One of them provides an attack debuff, while the other provides a type B ATK/DEF debuff. Sub one or both of them in for your current SRs. That'd let you stick with Andromeda for healing.

I am unsure if we will get the first SR you linked for the nutaku version since that kamihime came in an event that was done as a DMM collaboration with the maker of the Koihime visual novel games. So there may be licensing issues for the event in the nutaku version. But yeah I will try to get the second one then.


+99 Phoenix? Unless you're specifically looking for HP, ouch.Character atk instead of elemental atk Eidolon when he has full level 10-20 skill weapons? Apo or Echidna would both work better, no?

But yes, swapping to Apo and dropping Phoenix and Echidna should provide a minor boost.

There's already two high damage SSRs with basically-SSR-Beelz. As what others have said, all that is missing is B type debuffs and sustain, either in heals and/or A type -Atk down. It would be nice if you could use your Soul for that purpose, but sadly, for advanced content that's pretty much limited to Mordred only. Using Joan/Dart/Andromeda with Mordred's debuff might get you far, but not necessarily through everything. I'm guessing Mordred with Joan's -20% Atk A debuff would be the best for you, as is. That'd net you -30% Atk -25% Def, which is okay.

It looks like the options are quite limited there when it comes to Dark... Osiris coming out in one month would have heals, but good luck with that as it's SSR. And of course, Sol is completely broken and tends to solve all your problems on any team, but again, SSR. Darkness Amaterasu is coming out in ~two months and has Sniper Shot of her own, not to mention that she has Mordred's debuff too, which does solve all of your problems as it allows you to use Andromeda(/Cass for Dispel) for heals. But again, SSR! At least there's Nyarlotep in one~two weeks who'd have Atk -15% A debuff, who is SR.

Yeah the phoenix +99 was done mainly for the hp since my kamihime had a hard time staying around long enough during ragnarok fights to get off their burst. So I thought the extra hp would go well with the SSR defender weapon I have. She also has the fourth highest power of all my eidolons so I don't think its possible to swap her out for more stats.

I really just have problems keeping my himes alive long enough to get to use bursts on the ragnarok fights, so a little extra attack might not help. Also I use Echidna because she is at 1 star which gives 45% element attack rather than the 40% of Apo, so even if I switch Echidna out for a bit of a better raw stat eidolon her extra 5% attack on my 40k attack eclipses any differences in stats between her and any other eidolon. That SR you mention might help alot, I will look out for it thanks. The SSRs however I can only pray to gatcha gods for or wait till they release those miracle tickets.


Seeing has how you have the scythe, I would assume you have Dullahan? Use her as a main instead of Echidna or remove Pheonix.

While you have a lot of firepower, your team lacks utilities, which will heavily rely on your soul. The problem here is you still need a healer.

What other himes do you have?

Echidna is at 1 star so she gives 45% element attack which multiplies with my character attack from my weapons so I don't think switching her out as my primary eidolon would work since the next closest element attack I have for darkness is Apo at 40%. Phoenix has the fourth highest power of all my eidolons so I don't its possible to swap her out for more stats.

I might try your suggestion to use Dullahan for extra 20% hp but I would lose the 45% multiplication on my raw attack stats and weapon skills. I listed all my dark kamihime above and I am hesitant to use non-dark kamihime in this team since my dark himes have on average 40% more hp and do at least 100% more damage than any off element kamihime when used with my dark weapon grid. I did experiment with Amaterasu, Summer Sol, and Gaia with my dark team but they died too quickly and did shit damage during ragnarok fights.

I attached a screenshot of all the top eidolon I have currently. Thanks again for all this advice.

[sanahtlig]

I did experiment with Amaterasu, Summer Sol, and Gaia with my dark team but they died too quickly and did shit damage during ragnarok fights.
Wait, why are you running Dark team again? Go Fire. You literally need like one more Fire SSR for a near-perfect team. Apparently you're willing to cash so you can pick it up with a Miracle Ticket. Healing and debuffs are the core of any team. It's pretty easy to sub in whatever once you have those covered.

Otherwise, sub in Amaterasu. She'll benefit your team more than any dark SR while you're missing critical debuffs and/or healing. Then run Joan like I said above, or Mordred with ATK down.

Echidna LB1 is likely a small DPS boost. You can pair her with Dullahan friend eidolon for a nice HP boost without losing much damage.

[Unregistered]

Use Amaterasu. Her damage is irrelevant, her skills are far more important and open up more soul options for you like Joan with black propaganda or Morded with trial. Using Balor with Morded is meaningless so she can easily be replaced. Although slightly conflicted as the next event is water.

For eidolons you have, you can use Dullahan instead of Echidna. If you want a bit more damage, sure, keep her, but this isn't about doing damage cause then I'd tell you to replace your ssr defender weapons with sr lv20 assault weapons. Or you can just use a friend with Dullahan with your Echidna and see if that's enough to last, if not double Dullahan is one of your best bets.

Being a 42k+ atk dark team, you have more than enough stats to clear ragnarok difficulty stages regardless of element. Dropping some damage for better survivalbility is a better option, until you get more kamihimes.

[dreadpin]

Wait, why are you running Dark team again? Go Fire. You literally need like one more Fire SSR for a near-perfect team. Apparently you're willing to cash so you can pick it up with a Miracle Ticket. Healing and debuffs are the core of any team. It's pretty easy to sub in whatever once you have those covered.

Otherwise, sub in Amaterasu. She'll benefit your team more than any dark SR while you're missing critical debuffs and/or healing. Then run Joan like I said above, or Mordred with ATK down.

Echidna LB1 is likely a small DPS boost. You can pair her with Dullahan friend eidolon for a nice HP boost without losing much damage.

My opinion if u insist on going dark team,
1st scrap off ur Echidna....1.7k stats is really low.... u got other 2k+ to replace it, also Apo is 40% dark that should be ur main....otherwise Dullahan for HP

2nd get Amaterasu into ur team, she has 3 useful skills aoe blind, def up + reg and B frame def + atk down (Apo/Echidna are fire+dark... so Amaterasu damage is not as bad)

Soul, u can stick with Andro for heals/rez but personally i prefer burst down style with Arthur/Sieg (for MVP)

Arthur able to combo with Dullahan weapon(burst effect) u get an extra atk down for survivability while Sieg can easily negate Rage bar...i'm able to stun the boss from full rage in 1 or 2 rounds without any burst

[sanahtlig]

For eidolons you have, you can use Dullahan instead of Echidna. If you want a bit more damage, sure, keep her, but this isn't about doing damage cause then I'd tell you to replace your ssr defender weapons with sr lv20 assault weapons.
This can easily be settled by comparing various combinations of weapons and eidolons using my Toolbox and seeing which combination maximizes HP and ATK. I'm not doing this because it's not my team or element and the answer doesn't interest me, but those with a vested interest (i.e., the OP) should do so. But in general, Defender SSRs have such a large increase in base stats that it nearly offsets the loss in damage from assault.

My suggestion to keep Echidna is based on an analysis of Fafnir's stat scaling using stats listed in the JP wiki (these might be different from Fafnir's stats in the Nutaku version). This may or may not be applicable to the current situation, which is why I've made a calculator available for players to determine what's best in their individual situations. When it comes to optimizing one's team, there's no substitute for running the numbers oneself because every team configuration is different.

[darkace51]

Use Amaterasu. Her damage is irrelevant, her skills are far more important and open up more soul options for you like Joan with black propaganda or Morded with trial. Using Balor with Morded is meaningless so she can easily be replaced. Although slightly conflicted as the next event is water.

For eidolons you have, you can use Dullahan instead of Echidna. If you want a bit more damage, sure, keep her, but this isn't about doing damage cause then I'd tell you to replace your ssr defender weapons with sr lv20 assault weapons. Or you can just use a friend with Dullahan with your Echidna and see if that's enough to last, if not double Dullahan is one of your best bets.

Being a 42k+ atk dark team, you have more than enough stats to clear ragnarok difficulty stages regardless of element. Dropping some damage for better survivalbility is a better option, until you get more kamihimes.

Adding Amaterasu and using Dullahan gimps my damage by 26% from my current setup according to Sanahtlig's calculator. Granted this is without accounting for extra buffs during battle from Amaterasu but from pure numbers it seems using a non-element with my current 96% assault and 22% hp skill weapon grid severely lowers your damage.


My opinion if u insist on going dark team,
1st scrap off ur Echidna....1.7k stats is really low.... u got other 2k+ to replace it, also Apo is 40% dark that should be ur main....otherwise Dullahan for HP

2nd get Amaterasu into ur team, she has 3 useful skills aoe blind, def up + reg and B frame def + atk down (Apo/Echidna are fire+dark... so Amaterasu damage is not as bad)

Soul, u can stick with Andro for heals/rez but personally i prefer burst down style with Arthur/Sieg (for MVP)

Arthur able to combo with Dullahan weapon(burst effect) u get an extra atk down for survivability while Sieg can easily negate Rage bar...i'm able to stun the boss from full rage in 1 or 2 rounds without any burst

If I use Apo and Amaterasu while swapping out Echida I loss 16% of my damage according to Sanathlig this includes the 400 extra stat that I get from swapping in a higher stat eidolon. If I use Dullahan with Amaterasu instead that makes it 26% less damage, I think you guys are underestimating the effect of the weapon grid's synergy with the eidolon's element attack up. Just swapping out Echida with Apo with better stats eidolon(~+400) loses me 3% in damages (this includes the offset from the stat bonuses).


This can easily be settled by comparing various combinations of weapons and eidolons using my Toolbox and seeing which combination maximizes HP and ATK. I'm not doing this because it's not my team or element and the answer doesn't interest me, but those with a vested interest (i.e., the OP) should do so. But in general, Defender SSRs have such a large increase in base stats that it nearly offsets the loss in damage from assault.

My suggestion to keep Echidna is based on an analysis of Fafnir's stat scaling using stats listed in the JP wiki (these might be different from Fafnir's stats in the Nutaku version). This may or may not be applicable to the current situation, which is why I've made a calculator available for players to determine what's best in their individual situations. When it comes to optimizing one's team, there's no substitute for running the numbers oneself because every team configuration is different.

Yeah thanks, the basic damage toolbox seems to give me some hard number to compare to. I'll try to use the more advance one to min-max what kamihime would be most optimal to bring in my team. But currently it tells me damage wise my eidolon set up is optimal.

Also the reason why I don't use fire is because my grid is shit for that around 30% assault skill and 20% hp skill. I just recently got summer sol and amaterasu so I didn't start building a grid till a month ago.

[Aidoru]

Sounds like you're missing the point though. You already have more than enough attack power to handle ragnaroks, even with 1 less dark hime but you keep emphasizing on your damage. Your damage is not the problem. The problem is you are having trouble consistently dealing with them, or so you say, with your current set up, most likely because lack of utilities.

[darkace51]

Sounds like you're missing the point though. You already have more than enough attack power to handle ragnaroks, even with 1 less dark hime but you keep emphasizing on your damage. Your damage is not the problem. The problem is you are having trouble consistently dealing with them, or so you say, with your current set up.

The point I was trying to make is that if I do 26% less damage than I would have to survive for 26% longer period of time. I was expressing skepticism over the fact that changing in Amaterasu for one of my dark kamihime would have to improve my surviviability by over 26% or that the 16% hp boost for using Dullahan instead of Echidna would allow me to fight for far greater than the 16% longer period of time needed due to damage lost.

Since there wasn't a calculator for surivivability, I used the damage calculator for a benchmark for how much longer I would need to survive for. Meaning these improvements would force me to sustain anywhere from 16-25% longer fights, at the same time I already have problems surviving fights at my normal lengths. So since there were no hard numbers for this, unlike Sanahtlig's calculations, I am unsure if these solutions are viable.

[Aidoru]

You doing 26% less damage in place of using Amaterasu and Joan with Black Propaganda would most likely increase your survival 2 or 3 times as much as it is now.

[dreadpin]

i'm not sure how u evaluate over skills/hp/atk.....maybe i'm a noob myself but my setup is as below and i would really like Amaterasu in my team, her atk/def down is better than sniper shot...with that i can free sniper shot from my Soul and get a better skills(example Dullahan required maiden's prayer to remove the death debuff otherwise u need to get a specific Hime just for that which dropped the ur damage more severely, i'm using Belobog in my dark team for that....so u can imagine...a light hime without weapon skills nor eido effect...)

6115
6116
i tried to swap SSR HP to SR ATK and guess what, the damage is nearly the same from 13k-17k per hit so why not having more hp with additional burst effect? by the way, they are all skills 20
6117
I have Echidna 1 star but she is not even fit into my list, i tried it last time and she disappointed me...
Dullahan is backup when i needed more hp > atk

[dreadpin]

also if u so emphasize on atk...instead of skills, try remove ur Beelzebub since she is one of the lowest atk...(calculator doesn't include skills right? i nvr use it b4...all based on my experience...)
6118
(Beelzebub atk is 5500 not even fit into my first page and i have her in my team because of 3 useful skills, u can replace her with Aligo 7.1k atk lol...)
and again my opinion is skill > atk > hp

[darkace51]

You doing 26% less damage in place of using Amaterasu and Joan with Black Propaganda would most likely increase your survival 2 or 3 times as much as it is now.


i'm not sure how u evaluate over skills/hp/atk.....maybe i'm a noob myself but my setup is as below and i would really like Amaterasu in my team, her atk/def down is better than sniper shot...with that i can free sniper shot from my Soul and get a better skills(example Dullahan required maiden's prayer to remove the death debuff otherwise u need to get a specific Hime just for that which dropped the ur damage more severely, i'm using Belobog in my dark team for that....so u can imagine...a light hime without weapon skills nor eido effect...)

6115
6116
i tried to swap SSR HP to SR ATK and guess what, the damage is nearly the same from 13k-17k per hit so why not having more hp with additional burst effect? by the way, they are all skills 20
6117
I have Echidna 1 star but she is not even fit into my list, i tried it last time and she disappointed me...
Dullahan is backup when i needed more hp > atk

I think I should be more specific with my problem. The last time my dark kamihime got wrekted straight into an elixir was during the Ragnarok Ixion and Typhon fight. I tried a combination of Joan with black propaganda for Ixion, but I still had to eat eat her burst without Joan's defense at least once or twice before the cooldown for the next one. Burst lock from Ixion forced me to fight alot longer than I was used to which killed my kamihime (didn't have amaterasu at the time so didn't try it with her). After 3 tries I switched to Andromeda with black propaganda later with a bit better success rate (50% without an elixir).

For the Typhon fight well all I can say is why does she not die, her hp was ridiculous to me for an advent fight. I didn't use Amaterasu because I didn't think any of her debuffs would stick nor did I use Joan because I thought Andromeda's 1600 hp heal was better than Joan's regen, nor do I understand how large the defense difference between Joan's defense skill vs. Andromeda's is. So if possible could someone explain their difference on surivivability to me?

The key factor I saw in these fights was sustainability. So although I can understand your argument for a general better survivability use Amaterasu and Joan, in these cases I do not think using either of them would have improved my odds.
The reason why I'm writing this now instead of back then was because I heard that some Ragnarok fights will only get harder with Ixion and Typhon being medium difficulty at best. So I am trying to understand the consensus of how being mono-element could work given that my weapon skill are getting close to being maxed out yet fighting these off-element medium difficulty Ragnarok become 50-50 coin flips.

[Slashley]

also if u so emphasize on atk...instead of skills, try remove ur Beelzebub since she is one of the lowest atk...--While Beelz herself has low attack, her team buffs are insane. Unless you're packing a full on-element SSR team (and sometimes even then) or are lacking in -Def debuffs, Beelz can easily fit into any team. Even more so in a Dark teams where her attacks aren't that far off from your main cast.

And are you really wondering why your damage is about the same whether you have 180 or 200 skill levels in Assault? The difference between ~117% Assault and ~130% Assault exists, but it's hard to see with the naked unless you're taking notes, due to damage range.

EDIT:

-- nor do I understand how large the defense difference between Joan's defense skill vs. Andromeda's is. So if possible could someone explain their difference on surivivability to me?--Andromeda is like 20% less damage for 3 turns, Joan is -40% for one turn. In other words, against something that does a lot of burst damage like Typhon, Joan is far superior - at least, if you have some source of heals to get you back up. Also against Typhon, saving your -atk debuffs for when she does her burst is what saves you.

And keep in mind that Typhon Ragnarok was literally months in advance on Nutaku.

[Aidoru]

Note that damage reduction is not the same as defense up. Although I think they might work the same, not exactly sure how defense works. Not in terms of frames, they are literally different buff categories.

Andromeda's defense buff is listed as 20% defense, however defense works, and Joan is -40% damage reduction. In addition to that Joan has a -20% atk down debuff, which you could have used on Typhon before it used its overdrive. Amaterasu's defense buff is 30% defense according to the jp wiki and because they are separate category you could have stacked Amaterasu's defensive buff with Joan's defensive and atk down to mitigate even more damage from its raging overdrive. Though I'm sure one of the biggest factors for a dark teams against Ragnarok Typhon was the lack of HP eidolons. The fight itself was rather simple, just a build up burst, eat 2 regular overdrives, full burst at rage, mitigate a raging overdrive, push into stun, and pretty much win since she's had a very long stun phase, enough to recovery all skills, build up burst and even heal off of regen skills.

My weaker light team (SSR Raphael, SR Artemis, SR Belebog, SSR Amaterasu) has been able to clear all Advent Ragnaroks. No defender weapons and only 1 SSR weapon, rest SRs, so you can guess how low my HP is, the only bonus HP I can get is from relying on a friend with Hecatonchires. I did draw Metatron last week though so I'm not sure if she'll be making a big difference for future content.

[dreadpin]

For the Typhon fight well all I can say is why does she not die, her hp was ridiculous to me for an advent fight. I didn't use Amaterasu because I didn't think any of her debuffs would stick nor did I use Joan because I thought Andromeda's 1600 hp heal was better than Joan's regen, nor do I understand how large the defense difference between Joan's defense skill vs. Andromeda's is. So if possible could someone explain their difference on surivivability to me?

wait...u using Joan/Andromeda with Black propaganda? no B frame debuff? as i recall, Typhon fight basically need to stay alive and save up burst, after that put all debuffs up when she's in rage and burst her into stun...during her stun period is ur dps window since she's unable to dispel those debuffs for few rounds(i got dark amon to reduce rage bar and prolong the stun period)



While Beelz herself has low attack, her team buffs are insane. Unless you're packing a full on-element SSR team (and sometimes even then) or are lacking in -Def debuffs, Beelz can easily fit into any team. Even more so in a Dark teams where her attacks aren't that far off from your main cast.

I just trying to point out Amaterasu is good...because of skill not the stats and using Beelz as example.....if a Hime with 3 awesome skills then u probably need to prioritize her unless there is a Hime with good skills + same element

as for assault skill, if it's hard to see with the naked eye which mean it just a slight difference that does not matter

[dreadpin]

if u had Amaterasu in the fight, u can put def up in every overdrive... Typhon has 3 turn to overdrive with Black Propaganda it's 4 turn, Amaterasu and Andromeda both Def up are 6 turns CD, regen and heals + the blind should be able to sustain very well....

[darkace51]

Note that damage reduction is not the same as defense up. Although I think they might work the same, not exactly sure how defense works. Not in terms of frames, they are literally different buff categories.

Andromeda's defense buff is listed as 20% defense, however defense works, and Joan is -40% damage reduction. In addition to that Joan has a -20% atk down debuff, which you could have used on Typhon before it used its overdrive. Amaterasu's defense buff is 30% defense according to the jp wiki and because they are separate category you could have stacked Amaterasu's defensive buff with Joan's defensive and atk down to mitigate even more damage from its raging overdrive. Though I'm sure one of the biggest factors for a dark teams against Ragnarok Typhon was the lack of HP eidolons. The fight itself was rather simple, just a build up burst, eat 2 regular overdrives, full burst at rage, mitigate a raging overdrive, push into stun, and pretty much win since she's had a very long stun phase, enough to recovery all skills, build up burst and even heal off of regen skills.

My weaker light team (SSR Raphael, SR Artemis, SR Belebog, SSR Amaterasu) has been able to clear all Advent Ragnaroks. No defender weapons and only 1 SSR weapon, rest SRs, so you can guess how low my HP is, the only bonus HP I can get is from relying on a friend with Hecatonchires. I did draw Metatron last week though so I'm not sure if she'll be making a big difference for future content.


if u had Amaterasu in the fight, u can put def up in every overdrive... Typhon has 3 turn to overdrive with Black Propaganda it's 4 turn, Amaterasu and Andromeda both Def up are 6 turns CD, regen and heals + the blind should be able to sustain very well....

You might be right. Was hesitant on using Amaterasu on Typhon since she hits for like 4k-5k when Andromeda's defense skill was up and Amaterasu without a weapon or eidolon hp bonus had only about 7k hp compared to 9k-10k for dark kamihime supported with the defender. Didn't think she would survive past two overdrives.

Blind, black propaganda, or any other debuffs applied during the fight was unreliable for any turn besides the turn they were applied on, but using Amaterasu's B-frame debuff as a one turn damage mitigation might have been a better idea than focusing on the defense down portion of the debuff.

On that note, I was under the assumption that it was frowned upon to use mixed color teams. But in this case it seems that a mix color team is pretty much required to complement Dark's current lack of sustain. So I would like to ask what's the general rule of thumb of using different color kamihime?

[Aidoru]

It's mostly just Amaterasu and Sol who are often praised and recommended to use regardless of element because of how great their skills are. Amaterasu basically removes the need to use Sniper Shot on your soul and other defensive support while Sol is just a great healer and debuffer with a dispel and a rare c-frame atk down. Note that this is regular Sol we are talking about. Summer Sol is alright but regular Sol is on another level of usefulness.

Though I would personally not recommend using both at the same time in a team that is neither of their elements.

Amaterasu does have a time limited dark version though, which is just as good if not better.

[sanahtlig]

Few things:

My toolbox has two calculators that factor in debuffs (simple and advanced). You should be using the simple one, at the very least. That will tell you that Amaterasu yields an overall DPS boost (or break even) due to the massive benefit of -20% DEF. Not only that, she increases survivability with her -20% ATK, regen, and DEF buff. The Advanced calculator factors in buff/debuff uptime, but requires more setup time.
The Advanced calculator DOES factor in damage skills. It's set to the skills of my team by default, but you can substitute in your team's skills if you know (or can guess) the damage multipliers.
The simple buff/debuff calculator features a basic survivability calculator that compares the effects of the various buffs/debuffs on incoming damage and how many hits your kamihime would be able to take before dying. It sounds like even Aidoru might benefit from taking a look at this.
You're drawing erroneous general conclusions from your bad experiences with particular encounters. Yes, each Ragnarok is unique and you need to adapt to each fight's particular mechanics. But you shouldn't lose sight of the general mechanics that underlie all encounters. What didn't work for one Ragnarok may work for others. I can sit here and explain to you what went wrong for you in each fight, but that's not really important right now.


Keep in mind that many of the people posting in this topic are veterans with extensive experience clearing Ragnaroks, some specializing in Dark teams. When you have multiple veterans independently arriving at the same conclusion, it's unlikely they're flat-out wrong. My tools are helpful for exploring game mechanics and optimizing your team (if you take all the relevant factors into account!), but they probably won't help you prove that veterans are fundamentally misunderstanding game mechanics. More likely, you're failing to account for an important factor or you're misinterpreting the output.

[Aidoru]

Using Amaterasu for the upcoming event's Ragnarok might be a bit questionable though, since it is water. I probably will still, at least for the first attempt.

[dreadpin]

the blind is quite something to me, u casted that in first turn which u avoided a 3 strikes that kill a Hime, even if the boss dispel it immediately u can consider that it deal 0 dmg that turn....otherwise it continue to miss her hits for few turns

black propaganda only used when Typhon is in rage and at 3/3 overdrive which u unable to stun her in time

mix color is bad but some times the skill just too good to be miss....i usually taking 3 dark + 1 random hime with necessary skills

example
Typhon - Nike for def up and heals to last longer to save up burst
Dullahan - Belobog for remove death debuff from my 3 primary himes
Garuda - not much threat to me, i use full dark

if i had Hades i think i can use full dark for every Rag since she can cover 4 things blind, def up, prevent debuff and atk down

[sanahtlig]

I was under the assumption that it was frowned upon to use mixed color teams. But in this case it seems that a mix color team is pretty much required to complement Dark's current lack of sustain. So I would like to ask what's the general rule of thumb of using different color kamihime?
You should fill in the 5th slot with an off-element kamihime when doing so fills in critical gaps in your team's skills. You lose about 15% of your damage, but that's worth sacrificing to bring in healing, debuffs, and utility skills like cleanse and dispel.