Re-balance Feedbacks

[Eversor86]

Its cute, how we bash this Update for being so bad in many ways, and what we get after so long time are patch-notes, that themselves are basically a list of things we gathered ourselves on like day one of the patch.

As a side note a question:

"Once you complete all the daily mission for a day, you get offered 150 Kobans / 25 Kobans"

What those 150 kobans mean?

[Tyruss]

You can play HH on Nutaku or original side and here is difference on 6x in kobans (how many you get and how many you need)

[Eversor86]

IC, thx for clarification.

[MuljoStpho]

http://www.kinkoid.com/re-balance-patch-note/


Some pieces of equipment within the market are randomly assigned a koban price;

Wait, what? Like outside of the booster category being kobans-only now? Just any random thing in the gear, books, and gifts? If true, foul play, and you guys truly are horrible horrible people for this.
(Now I wonder if I've wasted any kobans on that. I had not noticed anything marked differently. But this is the sort of thing that we would be pointing out to you and complaining about as a bug report when we did notice it. Because that just isn't right.)

Edit: Just a quick thought off the top of my head. Could you instead rework the shop interface to have categories for cash gear (just as it currently is: white, green, yellow), koban gear (yellow, green, purple), cash boosters (white only), koban boosters (green only), cash books (just as it currently is: white, green), koban books (green, yellow), cash gifts (just as it currently is: white, green), and koban gifts (green, yellow)? In short: Distinct and well marked sections for each separate option (and I assumed that the selection would be better in the koban shops).

(Edit / side note: Oh wow, legendary really can show up in the shop. Got one in there right now and hadn't seen one until now. I know in the old system the text acting as a cheat sheet for the rarity names/colors showed epics but I never once saw an epic piece show up. So I had assumed it was the same thing here. Legendary shown as a thing that exists, but not actually possible to obtain in the shop.)

Edit again: Or maybe as a simpler alternative and if random koban items will definitely be a thing that can happen, maybe a koban icon 1/4 the size of the item's image can be overlayed on the corner of all shop items with the koban cost? Quick at-a-glance clarity. And then might as well put a cash icon on the cash items as well.

Also, I think one person mentioned earlier in the thread that the confirmation is gone for spending kobans on the button to collect from all girls at once. If true (I haven't checked it personally, I avoid that damn button) that's a dirty trick too and it needs to be fixed again.

[Eversor86]

Edit again: Or maybe as a simpler alternative and if random koban items will definitely be a thing that can happen, maybe a koban icon 1/4 the size of the item's image can be overlayed on the corner of all shop items with the koban cost? Quick at-a-glance clarity. And then might as well put a cash icon on the cash items as well.

Also, I think one person mentioned earlier in the thread that the confirmation is gone for spending kobans on the button to collect from all girls at once. If true (I haven't checked it personally, I avoid that damn button) that's a dirty trick too and it needs to be fixed again.

If random Koban costing items are in shop. Buying them should ask if you are sure. Cause if its not, then its a cheap evil thing that would mean I would drop this game instant if thats true. I buy affection and girl exp stuff like without even checking what it is, if I am wasting random Kobans sometimes by doing that - just go die Devs o.O.

On a side note, I wish there was Kobans history. Cause last time I payed attention to them I was at barely 400, now I am at nearly 550. And only things in-between were reward for daily quests and event quest. Even if I forgot to check it one more day and added some possible contests rewards - I would still end up having less than I have. Only reason that comes to mind is the small reward mentioned in post from PR dev asking for mails with feedback about this big update (which would mean I got like 10 Kobans per A4 page of comments lololol).

[Unregistered]

In the current list of contests I am a participant in, someone just spent 15 million cash. I don't think it was for winning the contest either. I know there were whales that had millions of stored up cash, but if it's taking millions just to win enough affection items just to level up new girls, what's us normal dolphins and even minnows supposed to do that never even come close to THAT much money. Add to that the when whales run out of currency and they can no longer play Great Pachinko hundreds of times at once, and then they are forced to start using Kobans to upgrade new girls, even they may start abandoning ship. Who in their right mind would keep playing a game that is so obviously and epically broken, and have to eventually resort to using increasing Koban cost in upgrading new girls once their vast amount of cash stores are gone. I'm not entirely sure, but it seems Koban cost to upgrade affection scales just like everything else. I hope no one playing this game would really consider spending $30, $40, or even $50 dollars worth of kobans just to upgrade a harem girl's affection one level. That would be insane!

I honestly don't even know if I have the motivation to finish out the Back to School event when I know that I'll just get yet another girl that I can't even hardly afford to upgrade to 3 stars, much less 4 and 5 stars when and if the time comes. I'm only at 33 total girls now and can barely keep up daily purchases of affection and exp items without spending more than I collect from my harem and from battling trolls. Of the last 8 girls I've managed to collect since the "version 2.0 re-balance", only one is sitting at 3 stars, five are still at 2 stars and the last two are still at 1 star. I ran out of affection items soon after patch and that was after buying them twice everyday from the market since I started playing about 3 months ago.

The story is amusing, but it's not quite amusing enough to keep me playing a game that seems to be punishing the players from being successful in said game. Winning girls should feel like an accomplishment, not a punishment. Then I read the patch notes and find out that I may have been spending Kobans on items in the market without realizing it. Shame on me for not looking at each and every item, but man what sneaky thing to do, especially since the patch notes were posted over a week after the patch and no one really knew the exact changes until now. But what do I know? People are still spending money playing Epic Pachinko to win girls they know will cost them more and more to upgrade. I guess some of people playing are ok with these changes. *shrugs*

[MuljoStpho]

I had a random thought. What if the girls automatically gained a tiny amount of xp and affection each time you collect money from them (so long as they aren't maxed already of course)? For example, maybe something along the lines of 1 aff per collection while at 0 stars, 2 aff per collection while at 1 star, 3 aff per collection while at 2 stars, 4 aff while at 3, and 5 aff while at 4.

I'd still want to see the requirements re-rebalanced as well, of course. That would be the primary (and more important) fix, and this collection bonus would just be a bonus on the side. Dial back the scaling factors for raising affection levels, like maybe.... Okay, assuming that this explanation is true:

15 for star 1, an additional 50 for star 2 (15x3 + 5), an additional 150 (50x3) for star 3, an additional 700 (150x3 + 250) for star 4 and an additional 1750 (700*3 - 350) for star 5. It uses a x3 multiplier and a modifier for each step, so that's why it gets the results it gets. The growth of the values comes from a pattern in the between between stars rather than the total, it looks weird though.

Suppose that instead of using x3 you use x2.5 or x2 to make the pattern. So something like {15, 50, 135, 605, 1345} or {15, 58, 171, 731, 1854}, from plugging x2 or x2.5 into soviras's math.

Additionally, or perhaps alternatively, I'd ask if "order in harem list" is really the multiplier that you want to apply against those numbers. I mean, whether you dial back those numbers or not you could consider grouping the girls up logically into distinct tiers based on which world they can be obtained in (including the event girls that you get from trolls, although maybe consider setting their tier as being +0.5 over the world they were in). Pachinko exclusives (both permanent and event based) would either have some preset designation higher than the current worlds (for example, tier 10) or you'd have to go through one by one and decide which world each one fits the theme of and match them to that tier (or +0.5 over it).

A scheme like that would achieve the same stated purpose of making affection easy for brand new players (Bunny, Juliette, Red Battler, and Ankyo would be "tier 1" so they'd all have the {15, 65, 215, 915, 2665} set as the required values to reach each star level (to use the current multipliers for this example)) and progressively harder as a player gets further into the game (Agate and the world 2 troll girls would be "tier 2" so their stars would be at {30, 130, 430, 1830, 5330} affection, Jennie and the world 3 girls would be "tier 3", and so on) but we wouldn't be seeing the numbers explode to insane heights (especially compared to the values of the affection items) when we get up in the range of 30 or 40 or 50 or so girls in the harem like the "order in harem list" scheme does.

Wow, I really went off on a tangent away from the thought that I started this post with.

[Sempai]

Hello, all!!!
We know, you've been waiting for it...
Here's Kinkoids' official re-balance Patch Note:

Call me lazy if I don't keep reading for a second time to find the point were this week re-re-balance is mentioned, but...

Isn't this just the data for the 2.0 release from last week, posted yesterday like saying "we are not going to bother touching a single variable to fix anything despite how much people is crying"? Please tell me that I'm wrong and being alarmist.

I know I defended the update in previous days, but I hadn't done the maths to see people here is right: Affection growth curve is ridiculously high, discouraging and game-breaking. Yet with no 3rd girl enhanced to 5*.

[Unregistered]

Call me lazy if I don't keep reading for a second time to find the point were this week re-re-balance is mentioned, but...

Isn't this just the data for the 2.0 release from last week, posted yesterday like saying "we are not going to bother touching a single variable to fix anything despite how much people is crying"? Please tell me that I'm wrong and being alarmist.

I know I defended the update in previous days, but I hadn't done the maths to see people here is right: Affection growth curve is ridiculously high, discouraging and game-breaking. Yet with no 3rd girl enhanced to 5*.

This. There is almost no point to even gather new girls at this point, and the cost to level affection is far too high.

[Bruceski]

I kept with this game when I burned out on others from Nutaku's site because it was so generous and anti-grind. Pachinko tended to come out at only a small loss in money so it was a great way to idle time when watching something and stock up on exp/affection items, now it's throwing money down a hole. Affection itself has turned into a massive grind so "you won a girl, here's some pictures!" is no longer feasible. The stamina refills when leveling up were small compared to the stamina costs of later story, only giving a couple more clicks, but it was a nice immediate reward for that progression and I'm not sure making that every 10 levels is an improvement.

[Eversor86]

The stamina refills when leveling up were small compared to the stamina costs of later story, only giving a couple more clicks, but it was a nice immediate reward for that progression and I'm not sure making that every 10 levels is an improvement.

Especially if you have my luck. I basically hit level 60 just after I finished regenerating quest stamina to full after finishing quest they added. So the magical stamina refill did literally jack shit. No clue why they moved it from each level to each 10th level, seeing how you can like progress just few times, just few next button presses.

Make the quest require a tad bit less stamina, and remove the refill after starting few levels that let you get into the game fast, or make them a tad bit more stamina heavy but keep the damn refill on each level.

[vem]

Welp I used up my entire gift stockpile after maxing out 4 girls, shame I stopped buying them out a while ago while they were still cheap.

Seriously though what's the point in making everything scale with your harem size? Now there is zero incentive to getting more girls since sure, you're getting more income, but everything also becomes more expensive.

[kokusho]

So, I've been playing this game from the very beginning, and unless they fix the affection scaling, I am fucking done. I had a huge stockpile of affection items saved up since the start of the game, and I used it all up to upgrade a few girls that I got (who keep giving less and less cash). So over a year's worth of affection items are gone in a week, so what is the point of playing this game? Do they really expect us to grind for months to upgrade one star?

Collecting the girls is what made this game addictive. Now, why would I want to collect girls if the game becomes brokenly expensive to play and I can't upgrade any of the girls? I just spent 13 million cash for a girl to give me $850 an hour. So even if I do upgrade the girls, it for a few hundred dollars? WTF? There is something seriously wrong here. If they don't fix this affection system, I am out. I am just flabbergasted that these developers put out a "balance patch" that makes the game unplayable for those who have large harems. It's like they don't want to make this game anymore so they are pushing us out. If that's not true and they want us to continue playing this game, then what the fuck are they thinking?

And the harem picture quality is getting bad too. The first dozen or so girls had great rewards for maxing them out, a great full frontal completely nude shot. Now at max stars we get a picture of a half-clothed girl with food shoved up their ass or something gross like that. Can't you do garbage pictures like that in the lower stars? WTH, man?

[Eversor86]

And the harem picture quality is getting bad too. The first dozen or so girls had great rewards for maxing them out, a great full frontal completely nude shot. Now at max stars we get a picture of a half-clothed girl with food shoved up their ass or something gross like that. Can't you do garbage pictures like that in the lower stars? WTH, man?

All about tastes. I personally rather have the girls clothed - especially if they have pantyhose or over-the-knee socks on them. I just prefer having stuff left out for my imagination to kick in, than fully naked images that leave nothing and thus don't trigger imagination. Without imagination kicked in, those harem girls avatars just look like your typical lame 2D females hehe.

Only reason why I did upgrade affection stars, was cause in nearly every girl it made the cash collecting timer longer, making handling Harem cash gathering easier. But you got quite more cash/h too and it was worth it. Now I am nearly sure its not.

I got Kalisa and one of event girls since the update came. Lets do a bit of math here:

- Kaslisa is 60th girl in my harem, Teacher event girl is 61. Both start with 800 cash/h.
- 1st star costs 189k and 192k, require 900/915 affection points which cost 375k/382k, totaling at 564k/574k.
- 1st star adds additional 100 cash/h - which means 5643/5737 hours and 235/239 days if playing 24h/day to get even.
- 2nd star costs 405k and 412k, require 3000/3050 affection points more which cost 1M251/1M272, totaling at 1M656/1M684.
- 2nd star adds additional 150 cash/h - which means 11k/11.2k hours and 460/468 days if playing 24h/day to get even.
- 3rd star costs 1080k and 1098k, require 9000/9150 affection points more which cost 3M753/3M816, totaling up at 4M833/4M914.
- 3rd star adds additional 220 cash/h - which means 22k/22k3 hours and 915/930 days if playing 24h/day to get even.
- All 3 * at once total at 7M053/7M172 , add 470 cash/h - which means 15k/15k3 hours and 625/636 days if playing 24/h to get even.

Above days numbers can be doubled or tripled cause most people wont play more than 12 or 8 hours a day.

Of course one could maybe go about this a bit differently. Assuming one collect money only once per while - lets say every time when all cash is ready to collect. That will make you collect once per 3 hours (longest timer is 180 minutes), and mean that every girl cash per 3/h will be what you can collect, and thus cash/h would be 1/3 of what you can collect. If going by that then:

- Kalisa and Teacher Deitra would have 120/160 cash per each 3 hours on 0 stars, or 40/53.3 cash/h.
- They would jump to 285 and 405 cash/3h on 1 star, or 95/135 cash/h, which is 55/81.7 more cash/h.
- They would jump to 648 and 945 cash/3h on 2 stars, or 216/315 cash/h, which is 121/180 more cash/h than 1 stars or 176/261.7 than 0.
- They would jump to 1249 and 1292 cash/3h on 3 stars, or 416.3/430.7 cash/h, which is 200.3/115.7 more cash/h than 2 stars or 376.3/377.3 than 0.

We can compare the above way of looking on affection stuff to the normal way calculated before and get some thoughts. Just upgrading to 1 star would be more costly in the alternative way. It would actually be also more costly if one gone directly to 3rd star. Thou on 2nd star one girl would actually cost a bit less (nearly 262 cash/h gain compared to 250 in normal way).

Someone in earlier comments said that new affection system is OK cause we get more cash/h with each girl, so making affection more expensive is OK. Lets think about it for a moment:
- Each new girl rises multipliers by 1, which means she requires 15/65/215 more affection points to get to 1/2/3 stars than the previous one.
- That means cost of affection points goes up by 6k26/27k1/89k66 for each new girl (with 417 cash per point value).
- Upgrades themselves will also cost 3k15/6k75/18k more. This totals 9k4/33k86/119k27 more cash to get to 1/2/3 stars.
- Each new girl has 800 cash/h on 0 stars and gains 100/250/470 more cash/h on 1/2/3 stars.
- So upgrading each new girl to 3 stars cost nearly 120k more cash, while that new girl adds 1270 cash/h to your harem total cash/h.
- This sums up at 93.9 hours or 3.913 days if one plays 24h/day or 11.74 days if one plays 8h/day.

So in summary the risen cost of upgrading new girl to 3rd star, requires nearly 12 days on 8h/day schedule to get even, on that cost increase alone. This basically means that each new girl takes those 94 hours more to upgrade than the previous one, and that it doesn't even consider how long it takes to upgrade/get even on base values.

[Unregistered]

All about tastes. I personally rather have the girls clothed - especially if they have pantyhose or over-the-knee socks on them. I just prefer having stuff left out for my imagination to kick in, than fully naked images that leave nothing and thus don't trigger imagination. Without imagination kicked in, those harem girls avatars just look like your typical lame 2D females hehe.

Only reason why I did upgrade affection stars, was cause in nearly every girl it made the cash collecting timer longer, making handling Harem cash gathering easier. But you got quite more cash/h too and it was worth it. Now I am nearly sure its not.

I got Kalisa and one of event girls since the update came. Lets do a bit of math here:

- Kaslisa is 60th girl in my harem, Teacher event girl is 61. Both start with 800 cash/h.
- 1st star costs 189k and 192k, require 900/915 affection points which cost 375k/382k, totaling at 564k/574k.
- 1st star adds additional 100 cash/h - which means 5643/5737 hours and 235/239 days if playing 24h/day to get even.
- 2nd star costs 405k and 412k, require 3000/3050 affection points more which cost 1M251/1M272, totaling at 1M656/1M684.
- 2nd star adds additional 150 cash/h - which means 11k/11.2k hours and 460/468 days if playing 24h/day to get even.
- 3rd star costs 1080k and 1098k, require 9000/9150 affection points more which cost 3M753/3M816, totaling up at 4M833/4M914.
- 3rd star adds additional 220 cash/h - which means 22k/22k3 hours and 915/930 days if playing 24h/day to get even.
- All 3 * at once total at 7M053/7M172 , add 470 cash/h - which means 15k/15k3 hours and 625/636 days if playing 24/h to get even.

Above days numbers can be doubled or tripled cause most people wont play more than 12 or 8 hours a day.

Of course one could maybe go about this a bit differently. Assuming one collect money only once per while - lets say every time when all cash is ready to collect. That will make you collect once per 3 hours (longest timer is 180 minutes), and mean that every girl cash per 3/h will be what you can collect, and thus cash/h would be 1/3 of what you can collect. If going by that then:

- Kalisa and Teacher Deitra would have 120/160 cash per each 3 hours on 0 stars, or 40/53.3 cash/h.
- They would jump to 285 and 405 cash/3h on 1 star, or 95/135 cash/h, which is 55/81.7 more cash/h.
- They would jump to 648 and 945 cash/3h on 2 stars, or 216/315 cash/h, which is 121/180 more cash/h than 1 stars or 176/261.7 than 0.
- They would jump to 1249 and 1292 cash/3h on 3 stars, or 416.3/430.7 cash/h, which is 200.3/115.7 more cash/h than 2 stars or 376.3/377.3 than 0.

We can compare the above way of looking on affection stuff to the normal way calculated before and get some thoughts. Just upgrading to 1 star would be more costly in the alternative way. It would actually be also more costly if one gone directly to 3rd star. Thou on 2nd star one girl would actually cost a bit less (nearly 262 cash/h gain compared to 250 in normal way).

Someone in earlier comments said that new affection system is OK cause we get more cash/h with each girl, so making affection more expensive is OK. Lets think about it for a moment:
- Each new girl rises multipliers by 1, which means she requires 15/65/215 more affection points to get to 1/2/3 stars than the previous one.
- That means cost of affection points goes up by 6k26/27k1/89k66 for each new girl (with 417 cash per point value).
- Upgrades themselves will also cost 3k15/6k75/18k more. This totals 9k4/33k86/119k27 more cash to get to 1/2/3 stars.
- Each new girl has 800 cash/h on 0 stars and gains 100/250/470 more cash/h on 1/2/3 stars.
- So upgrading each new girl to 3 stars cost nearly 120k more cash, while that new girl adds 1270 cash/h to your harem total cash/h.
- This sums up at 93.9 hours or 3.913 days if one plays 24h/day or 11.74 days if one plays 8h/day.

So in summary the risen cost of upgrading new girl to 3rd star, requires nearly 12 days on 8h/day schedule to get even, on that cost increase alone. This basically means that each new girl takes those 94 hours more to upgrade than the previous one, and that it doesn't even consider how long it takes to upgrade/get even on base values.



Yeah, this is just insane. After over a year of playing, I am done.

[Eversor86]

I just want the PR dev to tell us if they will work on changing this affection system.

If they don't i will probably not give a flying fuck about affection upgrading. Will just go into just wait for and do story quests. Will not even collect cash to upgrade stats, cause why bother if I can kill Bremen with just a glance lol.

Also you could like edit the quote by dotting out most of the stuff, cause quoting my walls of text just under them, to say one line of text seems kinda space wasting.

[Unregistered]

Does all that even take into account the time it takes to actually gain the affection items from the market? Since the actual items the market offers is random, there is really no way to accurately calculate the exact time. But I feel it ends up being maybe months and years, not just days to actually reach max affection level to begin with. Not to mention you have to take into account if your harem actually makes enough $$$ per day/hour to actually purchase those affection items. Mine barely does and I have around 35 girls, and that's when I collect often throughout the day at every chance. If I wait or get busy and don't check very often, then I don't even collect enough during the day to even buy the affection items twice per day during the normal market resets.

[Eversor86]

Hmm. Good question. You can get items twice a day, plus each time you level up, which goes slower and slower (or at least thats what it feels like since I get no exp from fight energy cause of doing event trolls).

IIRC there is always 4 white and 4 green items to buy. Average affection points for white items is 12.5, average for green ones is 70. So we could assume that per one buying session one can get on average 330 affection points worth items, which would cost around 137k6 cash to get going by 417 cash/point value.

Buying twice a day would mean 660 affection points a day, and 275k2 cash required. You can get over 50k cash per hour from just doing Bremen fights, and up to 80k cash/h from harem if you have lot of 3+ star girls and you take care of collecting pretty often. We would need to know how often one level ups, to add shop resets from that into account. For me its maybe around once per 2 days now, maybe was faster when doing PvP on fight energy instead of trolls. So thats half a level up a day, maybe up to full 1 level up a day ;]. 0.75 on average - around 250 more affection points and 100k more costs.

Summing up - thats around 900 affection points a day and 375k cash required.

60th girl requires 60 times 215 affection points to reach 3 stars thus 12k9 total.
80th girl requires 80 times 215 affection points to reach 3 stars thus 17k2 total.

So 60th/80th girl would need around 14.(3)/19.(1) days on affection items gathering. Thou that numbers would go down, if one level ups more often or rapes pachinko and gets lucky with drops in it. They would go up of course if one level ups slower, or can't afford to buy everything, or what ever other reason that would slow down the per day affection points worth of items gathering.

Upgrade costs alone to get those 60th/80th girls to 3 stars would require 1M674/2M232 cash, which compared to affection points costing 5M4/7M2 isn't that bad, but if someone has issues with keeping up with buying affection items alone, collecting enough of cash to then upgrade would just add that much more days.

New worlds are added quite slow. One could argue that we get not more than 2 girls a month from that (3 girls from troll plus 1 from story itself, and new worlds are added like what once a 2 months or even actually slower? But we have like at least 1 event a month which itself adds 3 girls, and possible 4th one if one gets lucky on kobans collecting to spin epic pachinko once a month. So that total at up to 6 girls a month.

What that tells me is that its impossible to keep up with affection upgrading girls as a F2P.

EDIT:

Also the above calculations are just about 3 stars. They plan to add 2 more stars to all girls later in the lane. If they don't change anything and those 2 additional stars would be also a simple what bunny needs/costs times number of girls in harem - then it would be simply ridiculous to the retarded levels of how expensive and time consuming it will be.

[Unregistered]

Also you could like edit the quote by dotting out most of the stuff, cause quoting my walls of text just under them, to say one line of text seems kinda space wasting.

Space wasting? Surely the forum won't crash from too much text in a given thread.

[kokusho]

All about tastes. I personally rather have the girls clothed - especially if they have pantyhose or over-the-knee socks on them. I just prefer having stuff left out for my imagination to kick in, than fully naked images that leave nothing and thus don't trigger imagination. Without imagination kicked in, those harem girls avatars just look like your typical lame 2D females hehe.

Why not do both? There are multiple stars, they can do some stars in various states of undress (or something for the fetishes) and have the final star being completely nude without any weird shit. Everybody's happy. I get turned on by completely nude women, I don't like the half-clothed shit or them covered in goo or dildos shoved into every hole like some of the other pictures. It would be nice to give us the option with every girl.

[Eversor86]

Why not do both? There are multiple stars, they can do some stars in various states of undress (or something for the fetishes) and have the final star being completely nude without any weird shit. Everybody's happy. I get turned on by completely nude women, I don't like the half-clothed shit or them covered in goo or dildos shoved into every hole like some of the other pictures. It would be nice to give us the option with every girl.

Yeah. I agree. What I meant, was a semi-joke. That for me the girls should be naked first, and get clothed up with more stars hehe.


Space wasting? Surely the forum won't crash from too much text in a given thread.

Its not about forum crashing of too much text. Its about aesthetics or something like that. Basically when I see a wall of text being quoted directly under the quoted comment, with a single short sentence of commentary added - it kicks in my semi-OCD ;]. Heck, there are forums where quoting under the quoted comment is actually ban-able stuff. You could simply remove any text part maybe last paragraph, and anyone would know you were commenting what I said, just above.

[zarelion]

Speaking of OCD, kokusho brought an interesting point: I don't like dirty affection pictures(not the scenes) either, the worst is when they don't fit the frame like beach eugenie.

[Unregistered]

Yeah. I agree. What I meant, was a semi-joke. That for me the girls should be naked first, and get clothed up with more stars hehe.



Its not about forum crashing of too much text. Its about aesthetics or something like that. Basically when I see a wall of text being quoted directly under the quoted comment, with a single short sentence of commentary added - it kicks in my semi-OCD ;]. Heck, there are forums where quoting under the quoted comment is actually ban-able stuff. You could simply remove any text part maybe last paragraph, and anyone would know you were commenting what I said, just above.

All the more reason to quote the entire thing. It's also a good habit, when people can edit posts, so that you know exactly what was referenced, instead of people possibly confusing it with edited content.

;)

You will survive.

[Unregistered]

So, the longer I play and give money, the harder, more expensive and less fun the game becomes?

Fuck that.

[soviras]

So, the longer I play and give money, the harder, more expensive and less fun the game becomes?

Fuck that.

This is exactly why they need to come and fix it already. They are going to lose their most dedicated players to this, and they decide to stay mostly silent. If I received similar complaints about my own projects, I would roll back the part causing the problem as soon as possible and then look into changing it again just to make sure the clients are satisfied, because without them there is no money to continue. The players are their clients and thus their income, if they ignore the players like they seem to be doing, then the players will be leaving and not coming back.

[Eversor86]

I myself will wait like two weeks tops. I will maybe actually send a mail do that PR dude who asked for feed-back mails. I will ask if they plan to do anything about this affection broken system, and what/when. And if they plan to do something about PvP.

If they ignore and don't respond. Or respond vaguely with ideas that are as stupid or more stupid that this affection system was. I will just drop this game.

PvP doesn't interest me, I do it only to burn fight energy and get some more exp from that. But I will do it probably till I run out of money on upgrading stats, at which point I will go to fighting best troll.

Collecting cash induces rage in me. Each damn time I collect stuff, close harem, and that stupid shit tells me something needs to be collected again, my hands start to hurt from smashing my desk in "hulk smash" rage outbursts ;]. I could maybe think about spending kobans to make it easier, but there is no automated premium way of collecting, just collect all - so click less for 2 kobans each time type of deal - retarded deal if you ask me.

Story - releases to slow, and starts to get repetitive. A bad enemy, a helping girl we end up getting in our harem, and sex battles. Some parody here and there (like super sayan stuff this time), but overall I actually am not sure if I find the story worthy to play just for it.

What I like about FKG is that, the busy-work there is less annoying, far, far less annoying. I actually see myself progressing slowly. Older girls get evolved and upgraded. New girls still drop, if not from events, then from gachas. I can actually try to make funny setups, with girls who I like for their looks alone, or cause of funny synergy of abilities, and still be able to beat most stages. At this point I get more gifts to level affection with that I have new girls who require them. Events give so much ampies/manuys that leveling up normal girls and special rainbow girls gives you the filling of actual progress.

And HH? You collect cash in a way that is so annoying you want to murder people around you. And you need that cash for affection, leveling up girls and stats. But affection gets more and more expensive, so instead of giving you filling you accomplished something, that you reached a moment in game where stuff gets easier, and easier, it actually gets harder and harder now. Leveling up girls makes no sense, cause out of 40/60 or as whale even over 90 now, you use only 3, and you use them all the fucking time, cause the battle mechanics are so retardly simple and fights themselves so easy, that you just take 3 girls you like the most, or 3 girls with best min-maxed stats, and are done with it. And stats? Hardest troll is one shotted already and I am not even level 70. There is 330 more levels worth of upgrades, or better stats items there. Leveling up and upgrading stats means nothing, its maybe like a personal accomplishment but thats it. PvP enemies I get are 99% of time bots, that are 1/3 stats and die in max 2 hits.

So if I was to sum it all up. HH looks to me like a some kind of masochistic punishment games. The more you play the more you need to play further, or well whale up, but then you need to whale up more.

I probably could talk more, but the simplest solution would be to probably just drop this game o.O

So now I need to eat cause I am hungry, and when I am done with eating I will send that mail I talked about at start of this wall of text, and we will see what they will respond (or not) with.

[headbanger1066]

I was on the verge of backing through Patreon so I could get the extra kobans each month and get pachinko girls now and then. I decided to wait until after the re-balance, and now I'm glad I waited. Otherwise I would have been paying to be punished for having a larger harem. Eff that. I still play, but I'm not upgrading affection, and I'm not backing the Patreon as long as the "screw over our contributors" mechanics are in place.

[Unregistered]

I could put up with the drag of the story because the girls were fairly easily upgraded. Now it costs tons to get a girl to 3*. I have to wait days of collecting and gift resets to max out a single girl.

Admittedly it was too easy before. I was stockpiling gifts until I got a new girl. Now it has swung the complete other direction.

[kokusho]

It looks like the developers responded to the affection problem on discord. Let's see what they said. JessieChan says "Before it was really easy to have affection scenes, now you have to spend a lot more time... Well, life.."

Well, before I played a game that didn't have a broken system and didn't punish you for playing it, and now it is impossible to level up all of the girls I collect. So now I'm not going to play your stupid game anymore....Well,life.

[soviras]

It looks like the developers responded to the affection problem on discord. Let's see what they said. JessieChan says "Before it was really easy to have affection scenes, now you have to spend a lot more time... Well, life.."

Well, before I played a game that didn't have a broken system and didn't punish you for playing it, and now it is impossible to level up all of the girls I collect. So now I'm not going to play your stupid game anymore....Well,life.

You should try reading everything and not an out of context part of just one message. You only make a fool out of yourself like this... In the same message from Jessie, she acknowledged the issue, and said they were gathering data to help them create a better balance.

[Eversor86]

Part they did collect data and do a beta run before they run with 2.0 big update and we can see how shitty it was ;].

Personally if I was a whale and I got an "welp its life, but we are gathering data to maybe repair or maybe fuck it up even more" response I would reacted the same way as kokusho did.

As a side note, they probably need someone who knows math in their team. To do all the balancing.

A 2nd side note, technically if we would assume that each girl has the same 1270 cash/h at 3 stars. Then the time one would need to collect cash to upgrade girl on what ever number of girls he has would be always the same. Cause 60th girl would require 60 times more cash, than 59th, but at the same time you have 60 times 1270c/h vs 59 - thus theoretically time to upgrade girl 60th should be the same as 59.

Problem is that it doesn't take into account few things, like there is cash/h in PvP or battling trolls and that doesn't go up with each new girl. Troll cash/h maybe goes up with new world/trolls. There is also the aspect of actually buying the affection items. There is also problem of 5 stars, how much more expensive they are, and how much more cash we will get from them. And also that it takes more time to upgrade than average time between new girls we get.

Girl 60th should take 93 hours to upgrade (or actually any girl). On just perfect collecting of cash from harem alone, thats total cost and doesn't take time to collect the affection items aka just how much they cost. But 5 stars will require over 10 times the affection points. And nearly 20 times the total cash. While cash/h on 5 stars wont be 10/20 times higher, maybe twice as high at best.

So over-all cash/h isn't really that big of a problem. As long as we don't count in the rising costs of upgrading stats, but we all can safely say the stats atm are useless. The biggest problem is time gating on affection items. IIRC I calculated that average shop buy-out is worth 330 affection points, which is 660 a day, which could maybe go up to a whole 1K if one leveled up once a day. And this is more or less a static number. So if we use average the per day down to around 830 affection points a day. Then to get a 60th/80th girl to 3 stars would take 15.5/20.7 days.

If we go to 5 stars thou - those 15.5 days on 60th girl, change to 192 days. Fucking 192 days. And this begs a questions, who the fuck worked on the update to let this slide. Especially that already or soon we will have over 100 girls possible to have in harem. 100th girl would take 321 days in this system.

This also doesn't take into account how long it takes for a single girl to get even on upgrading her stars on just hers cash/h upgrade alone, but we could argue that you upgrade mostly for the timer between collecting being longer, and to get the upgrade scenes/avatars.

[soviras]

Personally if I was a whale and I got an "welp its life, but we are gathering data to maybe repair or maybe fuck it up even more" response I would reacted the same way as kokusho did.

He took a single sentence in a lengthy reply completely out of context. There was a lot more to it than just that, but he chose to take only the part that would make the devs seem bad and ignores the rest of the reply and every other related message from the devs. It wasn't the best reply they could have given, but it wasn't anywhere near as bad as he tries to make it seem. I'm far from a fan of the devs in this case, but trying to make them look bad through deception is not cool either. And yes, taking a part of a quote out of context is deception, the same kind of deception some tabloids use to make it seem like they have a real story.

[Sniddy on laptop]

I could put up with the drag of the story because the girls were fairly easily upgraded. Now it costs tons to get a girl to 3*. I have to wait days of collecting and gift resets to max out a single girl.

Admittedly it was too easy before. I was stockpiling gifts until I got a new girl. Now it has swung the complete other direction.

This


It looks like the developers responded to the affection problem on discord. Let's see what they said. JessieChan says "Before it was really easy to have affection scenes, now you have to spend a lot more time... Well, life.."

Well, before I played a game that didn't have a broken system and didn't punish you for playing it, and now it is impossible to level up all of the girls I collect. So now I'm not going to play your stupid game anymore....Well,life.

And if this is the attitude shown, hold the door Kokusho, I'm right behind you

[Unregistered]

And if this is the attitude shown, hold the door Kokusho, I'm right behind you

count me in, and i'll just leave something behind as well *cough*bot*cough*, hate the updates, wasted more than 1 year on this game for something meh...

[soviras]

This



And if this is the attitude shown, hold the door Kokusho, I'm right behind you

And this is why Kokusho is doing something bad by taking things out of context. That is not the attitude shown, that's just Kokusho taking things out of context and twisting their meaning.

[sniddy]

Ok that whats the full context, in what context was that sentence not damming?

[SamRei]

Yeah, the real context would be interesting, but out of context or not, there is a problem here:


If we go to 5 stars thou - those 15.5 days on 60th girl, change to 192 days.

Give or take a month, that's pretty aweful. Was there something...anything that would hint to plans to improve this?

[soviras]

Ok that whats the full context, in what context was that sentence not damming?

It was part of an explanation where they thanked the community for sticking around while things didn't go as intended and where they laid out a basic plan as to what they were going to to from then on and that it would be changed when they figure out how to do it without making it worse. The very next part in that message was: "All being said, we want our game to bring fun to you. So we are going to just find the balance here". If I placed all related messages from Jessie and Kaos here, it would become a bit too much of a wall of text, but the attitude throughout it all is "we screwed up, we are working on a fix".

[kokusho]

You should try reading everything and not an out of context part of just one message. You only make a fool out of yourself like this... In the same message from Jessie, she acknowledged the issue, and said they were gathering data to help them create a better balance.

Oh really? And how was that full sentence quote taken out of context may I ask? Was it because before that sentence, he/she said we know there is a possibility that the affection is too expensive? How does that take the last sentence I quoted out of context? Or how about another line before that where it is said they want to give their changes a bit of time before the next changes? Does that change the context of that last line? Nope, not really. Or how about the big thank you to the nicest community out there? Does that change the context of that last sentence? Nope, including that line wouldn't have done shit to change the context of that sentence.

So what exactly am I doing to "make a fool of myself" by quoting the last sentence of that statement? Was there another hidden statement somewhere that changes the context of it? I quoted the last sentence of a statement right on the front page of the wiki where everyone can see, it's not some mystery message that only I saw, deciphered from a cereal box decoder or some shit.

The new affection system is obviously busted, and they are going to gather data to decide. It's broken they don't need to decide shit, they need to be working on a fix if they want to keep their players. I'll tell you what made me the fool. Wasting my huge stockpile of affection items I was saving since the beginning of the game. I used a shit-load on getting Bunny and Juliette up to 5 stars. I thought, "ok they are going up to 5 stars so that's why they are so expensive, this is going to be a major problem in the future if all the girls get to 5 stars, but at least the girl drop-rate is better, that's a positive". Then I get disappointing pictures and shit cash for the amount of affection and cash I poured into them (I spent all that to see Juliette with a hand penis). Sure that sucks, too. But then.....then......it's almost just as expensive to get any other girl to 3 stars and my stockpile saved up from over a year is gone? That fucking pisses me off! That is not too expensive. That is fucking broken and unplayable.

[soviras]

Oh really? And how was that full sentence quote taken out of context may I ask? Was it because before that sentence, he/she said we know there is a possibility that the affection is too expensive? How does that take the last sentence I quoted out of context? Or how about another line before that where it is said they want to give their changes a bit of time before the next changes? Does that change the context of that last line? Nope, not really. Or how about the big thank you to the nicest community out there? Does that change the context of that last sentence? Nope, including that line wouldn't have done shit to change the context of that sentence.

So what exactly am I doing to "make a fool of myself" by quoting the last sentence of that statement? Was there another hidden statement somewhere that changes the context of it? I quoted the last sentence of a statement right on the front page of the wiki where everyone can see, it's not some mystery message that I deciphered between the lines from a cereal box decoder or some shit.

The new affection system is obviously busted, and they are going to gather data to decide. It's broken they don't need to decide shit, they need to be working on a fix if they want to keep their players. I'll tell you what made me the fool. Wasting my huge stockpile of affection items I was saving since the beginning of the game. I used a shit-load on getting Bunny and Juliette up to 5 stars. I thought, "ok they are going up to 5 stars so that's why they are so expensive, at least the drop-rate is better". Then I get disappointing pictures and shit cash for the amount of affection and cash I poured into them (I spent all that to see Juliette with a hand penis). Sure that sucks, too. But then.....then......it's almost just as expensive to get any other girl to 3 stars and my stockpile is gone? That fucking pisses me off!

It was not the last sentence of the statement, and you know that just as well. Even the wiki version continues past that point. Also, Jessie has not edited the wiki, that was all by the players. You know it comes from the discord, you know the wiki entry was not from Jessie directly (anyone with some eyes can see that), and you don't even bother to check if you have read everything? And yes, it does change the context, because it comes down to a difference between telling the players to go screw themselves with their complaints and saying "shit happens, but we are working on fixing it". That is what context means, and it makes a difference. You are making a fool out of yourself by spreading partial information on purpose and for trusting a wiki that is edited by players without checking the facts.

[Eversor86]

In all honesty this fight starts to look like a fight about semantics.

Important things to note is that - this big update had a freaking beta and it got past it.

The fucked up affection times/costs don't require any damn data collection, all you need to do is plug you damn formulas into excel and check how long it takes. All stuff like cash/h can be easily estimated cause as fucking devs you know the numbers. You can also estimate how much affection points in items on average a player can get.

They say they want to make the game fun to play, but what they fix, and you could argue fuck up, are busy-works around the actual game-play of doing story quests and/or pvp/troll battles. They fucked up PvP even more instead of fixing it, thou at least now you can see how many players stopped playing by seeing all those 40- level accounts that don't have the full legendary set everyone got as a present. Troll battles are a joke. Story wasn't fixed and there is a chance it will be released slower cause of 4/5 star affection needing to be done sometimes.

Nah what they fixed is:
- Totally broken the game balance by adding 360 more levels to level up (nobody asked for that - for some levels over the cap ala paragons in diablo 3 to not waste the exp - that I saw people ask for), which also makes future balancing harder to do, when they have issues doing so already.
- Reworked harem cash collecting by making it even more annoying and time consuming if one wanted to be as efficient as possible with it.
- Reworked affection upgrading, by making it dependent on how fast one can collect affection items, basically pushing premium content from getting girls onto upgrading them when you get them, but even if you lie that you already have planned to add new features to help with it, its not really hard to estimate how long it will take now to get to 5 stars on a single girl, and see that players will fucking rage over this broken crap, especially if you tell them that "well life, we need to data collect".

If anyone asked for my opinion - if the wiki stuff is a direct copy or close estimate of what supposedly PR girl? or guy said, then they need to fucking learn they job cause they suck at doing PR. When you make a huge update, beta test it using actual players, and you release it and get bad feed-back from community. You don't go and say "well, life..." even if its just one lane in huge wall of probably mostly positive other stuff, cause people will get glued onto it. To quote someone (no clue who thou) "people lose jobs cause of this".

What I want to know is what they plan to do about PvP and affection. Just telling us they need to data collect is a joke. You were supposed to do that on beta. As a dev you should have some ideas in head already - will you leave it fucked as is, change requirements for 4/5 stars only, change all requirements, or just provide some number of girls dependent affection points gathering ways to speed up the process.

Will you work on adding seasons to PvP or maybe level ranges so new players don't compete with long time players, or are you just going "full retard" and pretend giving us 360 levels more to level and new items/upgrades will fix it instead of actually fucking it up even more than it was.

[Frelas]

You should try reading everything and not an out of context part of just one message. You only make a fool out of yourself like this... In the same message from Jessie, she acknowledged the issue, and said they were gathering data to help them create a better balance.

She didnt acknowledge anything, she says there might be a possibility that it is too expensive. While its pretty obvious that it is utterly broken.
You dont need weeks of data gathering to see how shit the current affection system is.

[soviras]

She didnt acknowledge anything, she says there might be a possibility that it is too expensive. While its pretty obvious that it is utterly broken.
You dont need weeks of data gathering to see how shit the current affection system is.

No, but you do need to figure out how to change it without causing issues and that isn't always instant.
To quote Kaos on the issue: "we are currently working on analyzing the feedbacks and the datas about the affection to see what needs to be done, yet we don't want to rush it to not break it even more"

[Unregistered]

Jesus people, stop hating on the devs so much. They made a mistake with the new update and they owned up to it. We gave them the feedback and that all we can do. Having arguments with each other about this is pointless. If you dislike the update so much then drop the game. It's not like you payed $80 for it like you would a console game, it's a F2P online game.

Yes I agree the game is broken but thast no reason to completely trash the devs. I honest get what Jessie was saying and you know what I agree with her. The ease of maxing out the girls where too easy. You never got to appreciate the affection poses in my opinion. Now the way that they did it was way too extreme and could have just hiked the price up a bit instead of messing with the affection amount that you need for the girls and the items.

Shit happens get over it.

-Shadow

[Eversor86]

http://www.kinkoid.com/an-update-full-of-affection/

Well, they do seem to want to fix the affection issue. You could argue that they want to do it in a hard easy to fuck-up way, but then I do understand the dev ideas behind why they would rather do it this way, than just make affection upgrading cheaper again. (Talked with Kaos on the discord about this).

Only question is how long it will take them to implement those ideas.

[SamRei]

they want to do it in a hard easy to fuck-up way

It's a pretty common thing, most developers of browser games would rather work on a convoluted way to fix their mistakes than ever admitting it was a bad idea to begin with. I read the wiki and your link, and all I can imagine is a hand wringing person desperatly searching for a way to make the basic idea work.

[kokusho]

I wasted a year's worth of affection items on a few girls. A year's worth. It doesn't take a mathematician to figure out how broken that is and it is reasonable to criticize the developer's for thinking that only upgrading a few girls a year is ok. That's really the only problem I have with the update. Everything else was great. The increased drop-rate was a good thing, and the new equipment system and increased levels is fine. The extra stars on the girls would have been awesome if the affection system was the same. The new affection system totally kills it.

[Eversor86]

Well, at around 12K stat upgrading cost, the per upgrade cost increase changed from 4 to 6. From fast calculations thats 4k total upgrades. Seeing how at 2k the earlier 2 per upgrade jumped to 4 per upgrade, one could assume that the cost raise per upgrade will jump by 2 each 2k upgrades done.

I put few things into excel. Those are things I found:

- there is total 19620 upgrades per stat
- last 1620 upgrades will jump their cost by 20
- last upgrade will cost "only" 212385 which is less than before 2.0, but there is shit tone more upgrades to do
- total cost to raise single stat to max/cap is 1457.836M coins, and thus all 3 will total at 4373.508M
- compared to old ~39.63/118.89M its 37.786 times more
- if one could spent all coins from upgrading pre-2.0 on upgrading in 2.0, one could reach 5250 upgrades per stat
- that would cost 39.704M per stat and thus a bit over 119M total for all 3, and require leveling up to 113 level
- alternatively one could spent all that coins on a single stat, which would let that one to upgrade it 8k times
- that would cost 120.02M coins and require leveling up to 168 level
- if one managed to farm 3M coins a day, farming cash to max/cap single stat would require 486 days
- of course for maxing out all 3 stats that time would triple to 1458 days which is 4 years
- managing to farm 3M coins a day would require playing 24/7 or getting a new troll that would yield 3-4 times more coins/h than Bremen

So in conclusion. Even if they add few new world with higher coins/h yielding trolls to fight, it would probably still easily take around 2 years to upgrade all stats, best case scenario maybe one year. But either of those doesn't take into account spending coins on affection. After long battle with upgrading stats pre 2.0, I am not going to do this battle again, cause I am nearly sure those damn devs will just increase level/upgrades caps again. So don't know how others, but I give up with upgrading.

[soviras]

- there is total 19620 upgrades per stat
- last 1620 upgrades will jump their cost by 20
- last upgrade will cost "only" 212385 which is less than before 2.0, but there is shit tone more upgrades to do
- total cost to raise single stat to max/cap is 1457.836M coins, and thus all 3 will total at 4373.508M
- compared to old ~39.63/118.89M its 37.786 times more
- if one could spent all coins from upgrading pre-2.0 on upgrading in 2.0, one could reach 5250 upgrades per stat
- that would cost 39.704M per stat and thus a bit over 119M total for all 3, and require leveling up to 113 level
- alternatively one could spent all that coins on a single stat, which would let that one to upgrade it 8k times
- that would cost 120.02M coins and require leveling up to 168 level
- if one managed to farm 3M coins a day, farming cash to max/cap single stat would require 486 days
- of course for maxing out all 3 stats that time would triple to 1458 days which is 4 years
- managing to farm 3M coins a day would require playing 24/7 or getting a new troll that would yield 3-4 times more coins/h than Bremen

At level 400, getting 3M a day is actually easier due to the exponential growth in equipment value (which you get from daily missions and contests). It seems very high with the current balance where at our levels most money comes from the harem or battles, but that shifts at some point. Assuming the same pattern continues and it doesn't get rebalanced, the items will be worth enough to cover quite a large chunk of the costs eventually when compared to the harem... Battles will give more as new worlds get introduced, but it will take a lot longer for that to become significant compared to the items. I wouldn't be surprised if we can actually finish maxing stats in less than two years due to that income growth.

[Kinkoid]

Hello, all!

Thank you so much for your feedback!

We were reading all of the feedback, although to be honest ... it's a lot!!!
We took time to talk over them and yes. We will improve the Harem Heroes v2 soon. :) Thanks to you.

There were positive ones and negative ones. We accept them all. The most interesting for us was the affections scenes feedback. Currently, we are working on improving the feature.

I will post more news here, really soon. Well, asap as the game designer gets them ready!
Now I close the thread.

Wait for it...