Affection Should Be Reworked

[Unregistered]

The amount of affection we get from items is laughable, combine that with the increased requirements and it's just a pain in the ass to get anyone upgraded when you've played the game and gotten a lot of the girls, currently sitting at 50 myself.

I get the idea behind the change, in fact the increased requirement for their affection level up is understandable and welcome. But the Gifts that go into it need to do something. Even for a new girl it's pathetic seeing the best green item do nearly nothing to her affection. Even gold items don't feel like they're worth spending the Epic Pachinko rounds on.

I believe that the original values were pretty good and could work well with the new increase in affection level requirements seeing as it stands I'd still need 10 rare lingerie to upgrade one of my girls to the final star. That feels like a pretty fair amount compared to the 33 EPIC lingerie to do the same thing. Maybe even reduce the original effectiveness by 1/4 if that seems too quick. The increased prices to access Pachinko is enough of a gate to keep this from being abused, though the prices in the shop could stand to use a reduction.

[MuljoStpho]

Personally I think that the girls ought to be grouped into tiers based on their world of origin (Bunny, Juliette, Red Battler, Ankyo = tier 1... Agate, Arcana, Kimie, Shehera = tier 2... etc.) which would include event girls being associated with the world of the troll that dropped them of course (and the devs would have to assign tiers for the pachinko exclusives based on what theme fits each one the best, possibly technically setting them as +0.5 over the relevant tier to set them apart as a prestige class (edit: event troll girls as well, maybe set to +0.25 over the tier)) and then let the affection requirement for each girl scale based on their tier. So world 1's girls would be really cheap for new players, then world 2's girls would be a bit harder, then world 3's girls would be a bit harder than that, and so on. But within each tier they're equal to each other (unless internally the values store as something within +/-0.10 of the tier number to create some slight variance within the tier).

I'd like to see them rethink the affection gift values too, but they might want to try the tier idea first and then see how it looks. Scaling by tiers instead of by an order in the user's harem list would soften the blow of the scaling by a TON and possibly make the affection gifts not seem so bad after all (world 8's girls would have requirements/costs comparable to the current scaling for the 8th girl in your harem list (at least for the same values on the scaling, but they would probably tweak those)).

As a separate idea (may or may not be able to combine this with what I just said before this) I was also thinking that I'd like to see the affection gifts worth different amounts in line with the girl's current star rating. ie Having a specific item worth X affection if given to a 0-star girl, 2X affection if given to a 1-star girl, 3X affection if given to a 2-star girl, etc. Or however they'd want to allow that to scale up. The required numbers could then grow to crazy heights without that translating into quite so crazy of a number of items being needed to reach that requirement.

[Geile Fons]

They already know people don't like the new affection system. But since the update is too recent, they want to wait for more analytic data before changing again. In the future it's probably not going to give more affection, but rather lower the price of gifts.

[DrunkMonkGar]

Having spent between 2 and 4 thousand green affection items to max 5 new girls since the update, I feel it would be a major mistake to leave the relative values as they are. I've been stocking them up since January and completely ran out getting the new Rabbi up and had to spend several hundred grey chocolates to finish her.

[Tyruss]

Well they finally responded on blog to affection problems and it look like good ideas to fix that (more gift drops: from pvp battles, pachinko and so on, refresh in shop every 8 hours and they will add legendary affection items. Oh and in the shop you will get better items depending on your lvl ... so on high lvl you will see rare or legendary affection items selling and at some time you will not see white stuff anymore) ... now we just need them to implement it asap :D

[MuljoStpho]

Saw a link to that blog post in the large feedback thread. One might argue that these things sound like plans that ought to have been considered in the 2.0 release to begin with, but at least between the different tweaks/additions it does sound kind of promising.

Well... It should be a start, at least. (So if we'll start seeing epic gifts or even legendary gifts in place of the common/rare gifts in the shop (getting to a point where we stop seeing commons) and if we'll start seeing more of them as random drops as well... Kind of focuses the one issue into becoming a part of a different issue that people have with 2.0, feeling a pinch from the higher costs of items. But we'll be looking at the affection issue with items that can take out a bigger chunk of the required numbers with each use, so that will kind of push back the line where the requirements start to outpace the items to a higher number of girls. Eventually they'll still have to come back around to rethinking the item values and the requirement scaling but they might buy themselves some time to not need to worry about it as much until after releasing a bunch of new girls.)

Anyway, it's just a question of when those changes will actually happen...

[SkinnyMike]

Affection system is my reason to register here, cause I just can't handle it anymore and I have to speak it loud somewhere (for obvious reason it wasn't the best topic to pick at social events, so here I am, on HH forum). I'll try to expose my mind clearly, but I'll be thankful for your patience and acumen cause I'm not a native speaker.

Harem Heroes 2.0 made really bad first impression on me, but I have to admit it - It turned out to be quite a fun and I easily changed my mind about it. New economy system works pretty good... except that one thing, affection. That doesn't work at all right now. Amount of cash and time I have to spend to level up girl is just... overwhelming. I have 50 girls in my harem, which means, I guess, that I spend quite a lot of time, trying to get them. And I'd like to hear an explanation, why I'm so heavily punished for it, for being into that game so much. Why people who like playing in Harem Heroes so much that they spend their time to get their harem bigger and bigger, now are paying for it such a price? Was it something bad? I shouldn't do that? Creators would prefer If I would stay with Bunny only?
No? Then f***ing WHY?

There were emotions, now about numbers.

Once at 12h I can buy (and it's not cheap...) aproximately from 200 to 350 aff. points at max. For third level of teacher Deidra I need 10 000 Affection points. That gives, at the best results at shops, around two WEEKS until I reach 3rd lvl with her. And I still have few girls at lvl 1 left. That's literally MONTHS until I'll get it done. And that's before them getting 5 level scale of affection (I assume that every girl gets it sooner or later?). I just... can't imagine, how hard, boring and ugly job would be to level them up to the 5lvl right now, and that is getting only worse when I'll have more girls. That literally kills the fun. Let be honest, HH is title made by humour, sex and girls. Humour and sex are at break right now, until new scrolls will appear. So what should keep us interested, are girls - in other words: making our harems bigger and stronger. And that become literally a huge pain in ass, which is nothing like a fun. I really hope for some change here cause that scares me off much more with every day while I spend a lot of money to barely see any movement at level bar... No joy here.

[Tristelune]

Hi SkinnyMike

Maybe you'll be happy to read latest blog entry on Kinkoid.com.

In any case, the dev team is aware of the problem and is currently working to fix it. Will it entirely fix the matter? That's left to be seen. But at the very least, they will improve the current situation :)

[Eversor86]

It will probably only fix it temporarily or just ease the issue up a bit, but will never get back to how it was. If you talk with devs a bit on discord you will understand that what they care about is core players, who supposedly care only about their harem, and do nothing else outside it, thus without "retarded" affection system to force those core players to have shit tone of things to do to take care of their harem, their core players wont play.

As a side note they care little to none about having any challenge in the game, cause core players don't care for it, thus there will never be a fix for trolls being to damn easy to beat.

They supposedly want to fix pvp/battle mechanics, but if I was to be honest, seeing how they fixed other problems players had in the game, I don't have any hopes for them changing it in a good way.

[Unregistered]

So here's a thing. According to the newspost on the subject:

"The number of girls that you own in your Harem will now influence the quality of gifts within the market :

The Common items won’t be available anymore if you have at least 20 girls.
The Rare items won’t be available anymore if you have at least 40 girls.
The Epic items will have a chance to appear when you have at least 8.
The Legendary items will have a chance to appear when you have at least 20."

I have 50 girls. Also:

"Introduction of the new legendary gifts:
Flowers (Legendary) 700 affection points for 291,000
Chocolates (Legendary) 950 affection point for 396,150
Bracelet (Legendary) 1200 affection points for 500,400
Lingerie (Legendary) 1500 affection points for 625,500
Some affection items changed as the following :
Chocolates (Epic) : 170 for 70,892 to 250 for 104,250
Bracelet (Epic) : 230 for 95,913 to 370 for 154,290
Lingerie (Epic) : 300 for 125,103 to 490 for 204,330"

Therefore, presumably now the absolute minimum I'd have to spend to buy up the gifts from the store every 8 hours is 834,000, as opposed to the 110,000 or so I just spent under the current system, which was already ludicrously expensive given the pathetic amount of affection increase each item now gives. This is before coughing up for any of the inflated affection level upgrades. What idiot thought this massive increase in outlay (potentially three times per day) was going to make affection more cost-effective?

It seems like the only realistic option is going to be to ignore the shop entirely (for fear of inadvertently bankrupting myself) and relying for affection items on the few scraps I derive from the missions, which I only really did before for the 25-koban full completion reward anyway (and maybe the steadily more-expensive pachinko if I get desperate).

Understanding that this update isn't actually out yet, these numbers in no way appear to be a 'fix' for the problem of affection upgrading being way too expensive; if anything, it'll just make things worse. Come on, devs...

[soviras]

Therefore, presumably now the absolute minimum I'd have to spend to buy up the gifts from the store every 8 hours is 834,000, as opposed to the 110,000 or so I just spent under the current system, which was already ludicrously expensive given the pathetic amount of affection increase each item now gives. This is before coughing up for any of the inflated affection level upgrades. What idiot thought this massive increase in outlay (potentially three times per day) was going to make affection more cost-effective?

It seems like the only realistic option is going to be to ignore the shop entirely (for fear of inadvertently bankrupting myself) and relying for affection items on the few scraps I derive from the missions, which I only really did before for the 25-koban full completion reward anyway (and maybe the steadily more-expensive pachinko if I get desperate).

Understanding that this update isn't actually out yet, these numbers in no way appear to be a 'fix' for the problem of affection upgrading being way too expensive; if anything, it'll just make things worse. Come on, devs...

The biggest issue with the affection update was the sheer amount of affection you need, due to the current system restricting it way too much in that regard. Currently, if I want to upgrade a girl, getting the money to do so takes me 3 days and getting the items to do so takes me over a month without pachinko (using pachinko would cost significantly more). What this solves is the lack of affection items while leaving the monetary cost the same assuming you don't use pachinko. You also get free items of various rarity tiers from arena fights and the daily mission, which decreases the cost slightly.

The problem you have with it is that you don't seem to realize that you aren't paying more for affection. Every item is the same 417 currency per affection point. The costs did not increase as a result of this, the shop prices are still the same per affection point, it's just for sale at a larger bulk volume now. Nothing forces you to buy it out every restock, and it wouldn't even make sense to do so because with the new system it's possible to gain more affection than you would need. Gaining affection is going to be possible at a higher rate while the cost in money remains the same, reducing the time needed.

[Bigshow71]

I like the upcoming change to affection items, but it still doesn't address a major problem...the scaling level pricing. For example, during the Back to School event I got Secretary Rabbi. I wanted her for my battle team so I began the arduous process of leveling her affection. To increase her level from two to three stars cost over 700k (say 700k for the sake of brevity) in currency. Her additional cash payout per collection increased by between 300 and 350 (let's say 350, again,for brevity) every 50 minutes. So in order for me to make back the investment I made to upgrade her I have to collect from her 2000 times, which if I collected each and every time her payment came up would still take roughly 29 days. This is, of course, ridiculous since no one is going to collect every 50 minutes around the clock for a month. This also fails to take into account the cost of the items bought. So affection is still a huge money sink for little to no gain unless you play for years. The old system, where you paid a certain amount was great. You knew going in how much it would cost to upgrade and you saw a return on investment within a moderate amount of time, even with the price of items. I shudder to think what the outlays and return will look like when they (eventually) upgrade all the girls to five star affection.

**UPDATE** I got Cunegonde yesterday (my 42nd Haremette) and I decided to get some exact numbers to go with the estimates from above.

To raise affection to three stars costs 9030 affection points (3,765,510 cash if all items bought in shop based on the established price of 417/affection point ) + 1,172,000 cash to upgrade.
At three star affection she gives 2159 cash/102 minutes (1270/hr average). So in order to recoup the cash laid out (solely from her) to upgrade to three star affection would take 2,287 collections (just over 163 days if collected the instant she pays out each time). So, in the long run, the people who have been playing longer (or the whales) are getting saddled with higher and higher costs that will take huge amounts of time to recoup.
I realize that there is additional cash income from troll and arena fights, as well as selling reward items, but between the scaling level up prices, scaling pachinko prices, the higher cost for higher level gear, and the (quite frankly) ludicrous prices you have to pay for in-story items, the longer you've played, the more difficult it becomes to advance any farther. This defeats the purpose of playing at all, or am I missing something?

[Unregistered]

The biggest issue with the affection update was the sheer amount of affection you need, due to the current system restricting it way too much in that regard. Currently, if I want to upgrade a girl, getting the money to do so takes me 3 days and getting the items to do so takes me over a month without pachinko (using pachinko would cost significantly more). What this solves is the lack of affection items while leaving the monetary cost the same assuming you don't use pachinko. You also get free items of various rarity tiers from arena fights and the daily mission, which decreases the cost slightly.

The problem you have with it is that you don't seem to realize that you aren't paying more for affection. Every item is the same 417 currency per affection point. The costs did not increase as a result of this, the shop prices are still the same per affection point, it's just for sale at a larger bulk volume now. Nothing forces you to buy it out every restock, and it wouldn't even make sense to do so because with the new system it's possible to gain more affection than you would need. Gaining affection is going to be possible at a higher rate while the cost in money remains the same, reducing the time needed.

If the price per affection point has not changed, and the amount of money you gain has not changed, then what really has changed at all? The items now give more affection points per item, but if the item costs more, aren't you simply paying the same, but for fewer items? How can the time needed be reduced when the cost of the items, as in the cost per affection point per item is the same? Even if they increase the times the market refreshes, with the cost actually being the same, you still cannot purchase anymore affection points than you did before in the same amount of time.

Also, if you can't "buy out the shop every restock", you won't be buying any more affection points than you are now, because you won't be making enough in game currency to do so.

Or, am I totally misunderstanding how this is supposed to work? I'm not putting down the changes, but it really doesn't sound like anything is changing as far as affection gain is concerned.

[Eversor86]

There were basically 2 problems with the new affection system.

One is the price to upgrade girls, and price of affection points (given the 417 cash per point of affection on all items).

Second one was that at some point not the cost is a problem, but how much those affection items you can get.

With white and green items in market only, on average you can get like 330 points of affection per reset, you had 2 resets and for average people you would get one more from leveling up. That was giving you an gate of around 1k affection points a day. Which people calculated would take years to upgrade like 50-100th girls to 5th star.

Sure we don't have 5 stars for 50+ girls, heck we don't have them for 3+ girls either, and there are some additional sources (pachinko), but overall that became the biggest issue.

This change that gives you better items the more girls you have, and with more resets a day, rises how much affection points you can get per shop visit and buyout. And moves the issue back entirely to just cash.

Now the funny thing is that if you ignore any additional incomes (PvP, troll battles, selling items/boosters you got for free), and also if you ignore few girls with different cash/h than the majority - then what you have is a harem/system, were each girl on 3 stars provides you with same 1270 cash/h. So if you have 1 girl upgrading her to 3 stars will cost time wise the same amount of time, as it will take to upgrade 100th girl assuming all 99 before her already are at 3 stars.

But a lot of people actually don't manage their harems well, and most of their income comes from other sources, and having more girls and thus more income from harem wont really give them that above equation.

My questions are, with the addition of affection items to PvP rewards:

1) that 25% drop chance for affection will be taken from replacing useless booster drops, or will it replace cash drops
2) will those items abide rules that market/shop does - meaning with 40+ girls only epic/legendary will drop and common/uncommon not

Thou even if those were only white/green items, the average value will be probably bigger than what PvP gives as cash rewards - so that could be considered a help in making upgrading affection cheaper.

My issue with all this is that its mostly a small band-aid, it fixes some issues, leaves some, but what we asked - to get back the feeling that the more girls you have the easier game is wasn't restored. Cause sure more girls make us have better affection items is market, but their ratio is still same 417 (at least for what I checked on legendary ones). So with how harem income gets less and less important while we level up, the speed of how fast we can upgrade is like not connected with harem at all, but with whats our level, how much junk items to sell we get, and how much cash/h we can farm from trolls (thou it seems there is not much progress there cause people say new girl troll gives what best troll before W9 was released was supposedly giving - or at least jump is not big).

[soviras]

1) that 25% drop chance for affection will be taken from replacing useless booster drops, or will it replace cash drops
2) will those items abide rules that market/shop does - meaning with 40+ girls only epic/legendary will drop and common/uncommon not


1. 25% from the entirety is converted to gifts, so 25% of the cash and 25% of the boosters are now changed to gift drops instead.
2. No, unfortunately the drops are fully random, but the chance for getting higher rarities isn't so low as to make them impossible to obtain this way. You can get a legendary at any point from pvp, but the same goes for always being able to obtain common items.

[Eversor86]

Did you test it on some beta server or you know something we cant read in the patch notes XD?

[soviras]

Did you test it on some beta server or you know something we cant read in the patch notes XD?

Some of it was answered in the Q&A, some of it was answered when I asked for clarification.

[Evilmind]

6841

Is this some kind of joke ?
2.047.470 for 8 items, 4910 affection points in total...

Hope it's not the "real" solution to the affection problem.

[KainBloodOmen]

It's a big joke!
This update is, sorry, stupid.
The amount of money required for the objects is too great for what it brings in the end once a girl is improved.

[Unregistered]

Pay 2 million to increase the affection of a girl with a h-scene that is not a h-scene in a lot cases, to get 900 money (looking at you Stephanie)... yeah this is the biggest fuck you i ever saw lol. Fuck this, i gave them a chance and they slapped us in the face.

[Unregistered]

I think that rarer gifts should have better money/affection ratio.

But is Kinkoid gonna listen? And actually change anything? Because this update sucks >:(

[Unregistered]

HH 2.0 made the girls drop less money, before the update i got 120k from them, now its 90k. And to make it better they increaed the prices by 2479247% !! (made that number up...obviously)

With the new affections system i pay now over 2 millions for gifts, so i can level up a girl, that then gives me 1000 bucks or less...

So much about listening to our feedback, they don't give a shit and I'm definatly not going to wait for another "fix" that will come up in a month or more. They showed me, a player that supported them via Patreon and played the game since day one that they don't give a fuck about us so i just do the same.

Gonna go back to Kamihime i guess, or just waiting for another game to show up that cares about their fanbase.

[Tristelune]

So much about listening to our feedback, they don't give a shit and I'm definatly not going to wait for another "fix" that will come up in a month or more.
Main feedback that was given to Kinkoid was that affection was too difficult to obtain, because of the rarity of gifts. Now we have plenty of affection, for the same price as before (417 $ for 1 point of affection).
So, they didn't increase the price of the affection today. They just gave more affection. I don't see the problem here...


HH 2.0 made the girls drop less money, before the update i got 120k from them, now its 90k.
Since HH 2.0, players get more money than before, between harem (girls give more money per hour in average) and trolls fights.

[Unregistered]

Main feedback that was given to Kinkoid was that affection was too difficult to obtain, because of the rarity of gifts. Now we have plenty of affection, for the same price as before (417 $ for 1 point of affection).
So, they didn't increase the price of the affection today. They just gave more affection. I don't see the problem here...


Since HH 2.0, players get more money than before, between harem (girls give more money per hour in average) and trolls fights.

I'll say it again. If you make the same amount of money as before, and the cost per affection point has not changed, how can you afford to buy more affection items, especially now since the price has increased. You don't have any more money than before the change so it's impossible to buy any more affection per day now than before the change. In fact, you might have to buy less items per day because you can't afford the newer legendary and epic items.

Technically nothing has really changed as far as affection is concerned.

[soviras]

I'll say it again. If you make the same amount of money as before, and the cost per affection point has not changed, how can you afford to buy more affection items, especially now since the price has increased. You don't have any more money than before the change so it's impossible to buy any more affection per day now than before the change. In fact, you might have to buy less items per day because you can't afford the newer legendary and epic items.

Technically nothing has really changed as far as affection is concerned.

You can buy more for one simple reason: you were never able to spend all your income before this change. Now you can spend everything you earn on affection items, and by doing that you will get affection faster. You don't need to buy all the items in the shop to do that, you only need to buy as many as you can afford. A single epic item is at least worth slightly more affection points than the entire shop was (on average) before the update, and if you have enough girls to get them in the shop you will be able to afford at least one if you collect the money from your girls. If you can't afford a single epic item, you wouldn't have been able to afford buying out the entire shop before the update either... The only thing you can't do now that you could do before is always buying out the entire shop.

[Unregistered]

Why do people seem to forget that girls require way more affection now per Star, and scales with the ammount of girls on your harem?

yeah, price may be the same, but girls require ridiculous ammounts of affection now

[Eversor86]

You just all need to take into consideration one thing, one thing only, a thing that devs care only about in this game, at least based on what they were telling me multiple times on discord.

The only thing they care about is core players. Those core players give no fucks about any game challenges, they only care about their harem. Thus it doesn't matter to them if they one shot everything in this game, as long as they could work on harem they would. So they could farm trolls to get girls? They would. They had some affection scenes to unlock, they would buy gifts and unlock them. Apart from that? Nothing matters. So if they have all girls at max affection/level, they would not do nearly anything in game, and thats what devs don't want.

So don't think they will reduce the costs, because that would mean making upgrading affection to easy, and thus make less work for core players. And less work mean less game time, as devs think this game is some kind of odd clicker game.

As a side note: as someone already explained, you get less cash per collect from harem, but you get collects more often, so cash/h actually gone up, cash per collecting once all girls are ready to collect gone down.

As a side note 2: if you talk a bit with devs, you will get a feeling they are kinda full of themselves, whatever they fuck up, they will tell you it wasn't a fuck up, but a change necessary to accommodate future changes to make game better, etc. Whatever people complain about that they changed, they will repair it in convoluted way, to like make you think they are fixing the problem while you could argue they don't (like this whole affection thing).

As a side note 3: I think this game requires the most work or real money spent on kobans to unlock girls/their affection scenes, and this cost now goes up with each new girl, the few single image scenes that often aren't even worth calling h-content are all you really get, there is no voice acting of any sort, no proper h-scenes/story, you don't really learn about girls, its hard to call this a wifu collecting game. It actually makes you wonder how the hell this game survived so long on the market, thou I will admit there are worse games out there.

[MuljoStpho]

Is it true what's being said about the $ spent per affection point gained being a constant across all item qualities? Simple basic common sense should have dictated that the rate would be better on a higher quality item compared to a lower quality item. Otherwise it isn't really "higher quality", it's just a compacted form of the same low quality thing.

And yeah, I even said earlier in this thread that the announced changes sounded like they could be a start, but that there would still be issues to address sooner or later. (Scaling of affection requirement gets out of hand.)

I personally still stand by the idea I've stated a few times before in other topics, which is that the scaling wouldn't come across so bad if the girls were grouped up into tiers instead of being scaled individually. So we'd have Bunny, Juliette, Red Battler, and Ankyo as "tier 1", we'd have Agate, Arcana, Kimie, and Shehera as "tier 2", we'd have Jennie, Rumiko, Sung, and Solveig as "tier 3", and so on and so on for all the non-event chapter and troll girls. Non-event pachinko exclusives might be slotted in as "tier x+0.5" where x is whichever world they most fit the theme of. Event troll girls and event pachinko exclusives might also fit in as "tier x+0.5". Potentially throw in some secret variable where each girl can be independently set as their tier plus or minus a window of about .1 in either direction to add some slight variance in the requirements from one girl to the next. All girls' requirements would be calculated based on their tier value, not their position in your harem list. And this would maintain the intention that the devs had with 2.0 where it would be easy for new players to jump in with the first few girls and harder as you obtain more girls.

It's a completely separate idea but I also still think they ought to consider revamping the harem interface to combine duplicate listings together. So for example instead of having Noemy, Sporty Noemy, and Metal Noemy as three separate girls in the harem list, there should just be one listing for Noemy but add an option similar to the pose selection to choose the costume set. Plus of course her cash output would scale with all total star levels between all of her available costume sets. They could also consider revising all alternate costumes of a girl to change her stats to a different distribution while that costume is active. For example, regular Noemy could have charm as her main stat, Sporty Noemy could have know-how as her main stat, and Metal Noemy could have hardcore as her main stat. For flexibility of options.

[UnRegistered]

At this point I think it would make sense to increase the amount of money each girl makes per hour by a certain percentage, and that percentage should increase according to the number of girls you have in your harem.

If that's how affection works, then it should make sense for the income too.

[soviras]

Why do people seem to forget that girls require way more affection now per Star, and scales with the ammount of girls on your harem?

yeah, price may be the same, but girls require ridiculous ammounts of affection now

It was the previous update that changed the affection required per girl. THIS update didn't increase the affection required per girl.


Is it true what's being said about the $ spent per affection point gained being a constant across all item qualities? Simple basic common sense should have dictated that the rate would be better on a higher quality item compared to a lower quality item. Otherwise it isn't really "higher quality", it's just a compacted form of the same low quality thing.

Yes, it is always 417 money per affection point. The higher rarities are a bulk item that require less clicking and can be used to supply affection faster. It also makes sense, you have to put in less work to achieve the same result with higher item tiers.


At this point I think it would make sense to increase the amount of money each girl makes per hour by a certain percentage, and that percentage should increase according to the number of girls you have in your harem.

If that's how affection works, then it should make sense for the income too.

The way it currently works means that the amount of girls you have before you get a girl drop is more or less irrelevant to the time it takes you to upgrade a girl. Basically, when you have 50 girls and get the 51st, it takes around the same time to get enough money to upgrade the 51st girl as it would when you have 100 and need to get money to upgrade your 101st girl. Due to the money from the bosses changing it a bit, it's not exactly the same, but the difference isn't too big.

A simplified explanation might help. For the sake of this explanation, let's assume every girl gives exactly 1000 per hour and you don't get money from anything else and that the base upgrade cost is 100k. If you have 50 girls, you would get 50k per hour and you spend 5 million to upgrade the girl (which takes 100 hours). When you have 100 girls, you will have double the income (100k/hour). Your newest girl will also have cost double what you paid for your 50th girl (10 million). To get that 10 million, it takes you the same 100 hours.

[Unregistered]

Main feedback that was given to Kinkoid was that affection was too difficult to obtain, because of the rarity of gifts. Now we have plenty of affection, for the same price as before (417 $ for 1 point of affection).
So, they didn't increase the price of the affection today. They just gave more affection. I don't see the problem here...


Since HH 2.0, players get more money than before, between harem (girls give more money per hour in average) and trolls fights.


The fix came yesterday and i lost 9 million to raise two affection points during that time, and you are seriously asking where the problem is? Jesus christ i dont care anymore if you defend this bullshit. I can only buy legendary items now, wich means i need to spend atleast 10 millions to max out a girl that then gives me like 1000 bucks... thats a huge problem for me. If you have the time to collect money 24/7 thats good for you. I dont have that amount the time to solve my income problem (ingame).

[JMich]

I can only buy legendary items now, wich means i need to spend atleast 10 millions to max out a girl that then gives me like 1000 bucks...

Buying common or uncommon would still cost the same, other than the final points where epic/legendary may have a bit of overflow. But you should be able to get a few such drops from PVP and/or quests.
Being able to buy epic and/or legendary affection items means that instead of needing 10 days to have enough affection to max a girl, you need 4 or 5 instead. Not that you need less cash (which may still be an issue, though not sure why). All in all, compared to the 2.0 update, raising affection is slightly easier now, though still much harder than it was before the 2.0 update.

[Unregistered]

Buying common or uncommon would still cost the same, other than the final points where epic/legendary may have a bit of overflow. But you should be able to get a few such drops from PVP and/or quests.
Being able to buy epic and/or legendary affection items means that instead of needing 10 days to have enough affection to max a girl, you need 4 or 5 instead. Not that you need less cash (which may still be an issue, though not sure why). All in all, compared to the 2.0 update, raising affection is slightly easier now, though still much harder than it was before the 2.0 update.


You guys seriously dont get the problem here. The amount of money you need to spend to raise a level and the amount of money you get as a reward is an absolute joke!
As I said beofre, in just one freakin day i lost 9 millions, how much do you think i made in this past day? Something about 400k. In other words, if I dont spend my whole day on this game the affection system is worthless for me. I dont see the fun in farming money for weeks to raise one girl that then gives me literally nothing in comparison.

My main problem is that the amount of money you have to spend is enourmes while the amount of money you get is an absolute joke. Stephanie gives 890 bucks at level 3!!!
Do you know how much money i spend to reach that point? millions...
As I said before, defend this bullshit and play your new money farming simulator, I'm out....

[Tristelune]

You just all need to take into consideration one thing, one thing only, a thing that devs care only about in this game, at least based on what they were telling me multiple times on discord.
The only thing they care about is core players.

Wow, man... You're Insaneis, right? I don't know if you said this on purpose to bring negativity here or if you just misunderstood what Kaos spent so long time explaining you, but it's false that they do only care for core players.
A quick search provide various quotes on this matter. For example, on 11th September:
Makuro: "Anyway, it's not relevant to discuss if the game should be balanced for casuals or pros, your goal is to give everyone a good experience, not one or the other.
Kaos: yes, and that's why we need to take time to push the changes".

Maybe the sentence you misunderstood (or purposely twist?) is this one: "I don't want to create a feature that will take a lot of time just to satisfy a few players. I want first to create stuff that will satisfy the most of our players. my time isn't infinite." (emphasis is mine)?
If so, a careful reading of this statement should make it clear that they don't think only about core players. But they naturally think first about them, which any good businessman will tell you is perfectly fair.


As a side note 2: if you talk a bit with devs, you will get a feeling they are kinda full of themselves, whatever they fuck up, they will tell you it wasn't a fuck up, but a change necessary to accommodate future changes to make game better, etc. Whatever people complain about that they changed, they will repair it in convoluted way, to like make you think they are fixing the problem while you could argue they don't (like this whole affection thing).
Lol, seriously? I was reading all your conversations with Kaos on Discord when they happened, and i was more under the impression that you were the one kinda full of himself. I mean: you, a programer (so, not a game designer, are you?), a single player, you know better than the game design team that get the entirety of the players' data (and know their behaviours) and has knowledge of the plans for future (short and long term) features?
If yes, I tip my hat to you. But more likely, you're full of yourself :)
Don't misunderstand me: I'm not saying the dev team didn't make any mistake, but the fact that you call them "full of themselves" - despite they spent more than 1 hour discussing with you, answering your questions and explaining their point of view - feels inapproriate.


As a side note 3: I think this game requires the most work or real money spent on kobans to unlock girls/their affection scenes, and this cost now goes up with each new girl [...].
For your information, they said they're gonna work on that.



The fix came yesterday and i lost 9 million to raise two affection points during that time, and you are seriously asking where the problem is? Jesus christ i dont care anymore if you defend this bullshit. I can only buy legendary items now, wich means i need to spend atleast 10 millions to max out a girl that then gives me like 1000 bucks... thats a huge problem for me. If you have the time to collect money 24/7 thats good for you. I dont have that amount the time to solve my income problem (ingame).
Well, the point is that you don't have to spend 9 millions everyday. You spend what you earn. I think with this new system, depending on how many girls you have and how often you collect money (don't forget that the main source of income now are fighting the boss, not the harem), an average player should spend between 2 and 7 days to raise a girl from 0* to 3*, which seem perfectly fine by me.
If you happen to have more detailled calculation than my rough estimation, I'd appreciate you share it :)
Also, keep in mind that they said they proceed by iterative adjustments. Further fine tuning will probably come in a not so far future after they evaluate the in-game effects of yesterday patch.
Oh, and for the record, I don't spend more than 20 minutes per day on the game. Yet I make more than 1.5M per day (I have 75 girls and i'm in world 9. More than 1M of my incomes come from fighting Finalmecia). Maybe you're in a different situation, but 20 minutes per day seems hardly unachievable, imho.

[JMich]

The amount of money you need to spend to raise a level and the amount of money you get as a reward is an absolute joke!

Yes, we do get that it is an issue (for some, I'm still at over 40 mill for some reason). But that didn't change with Monday's update. On the other hand, Monday's update did make it faster to get the items you need to raise the affection. You still need to pay the same amount of money to raise the affection, but you can do it faster. So Monday's update fixed one problem while leaving other issues untouched.

[soviras]

you know better than the game design team that get the entirety of the players' data (and know their behaviours)


They are kinda bad at interpreting some of the data from what I can tell from their answers to some questions. One of their claims was that players mainly cared about their girls, but there isn't much else to do in the game other than battles and rereading story so that creates a massive bias for the player activity (which they don't seem to realize).


Well, the point is that you don't have to spend 9 millions everyday. You spend what you earn. I think with this new system, depending on how many girls you have and how often you collect money (don't forget that the main source of income now are fighting the boss, not the harem), an average player should spend between 2 and 7 days to raise a girl from 0* to 3*, which seem perfectly fine by me.

This is an important thing a lot of people are missing. As long as you are active and not just showing up to collect once a day, you will get enough money in a reasonable time. I earn enough to get a girl to 3 stars in two and a half days while going for the event girls... It's pretty much just money from my harem that I'm earning now, and it's enough to get me to full upgrades in less than 3 days.

[Eversor86]

Wow, man... You're Insaneis, right? I don't know if you said this on purpose to bring negativity here or if you just misunderstood what Kaos spent so long time explaining you, but it's false that they do only care for core players.

I wont lie. I do want to bring a bit of negativity here. Cause people suger coat devs like you, and it gives me diabetes. If a small kinda incoherent dev team (as in from what people told me every one of them is only good in one field, and has no clue about other people fields, they don't have anyone with good management skills so they often wait one for another, etc.) tells you they care first for core players, you can basically read it as they care only about them.


Maybe the sentence you misunderstood (or purposely twist?) is this one: "I don't want to create a feature that will take a lot of time just to satisfy a few players. I want first to create stuff that will satisfy the most of our players. my time isn't infinite." (emphasis is mine)?
If so, a careful reading of this statement should make it clear that they don't think only about core players. But they naturally think first about them, which any good businessman will tell you is perfectly fair.

Why do you take things out of context? The feature was a challenge troll, that would scale up with player levels, easy to implement (so dev lies that its time consuming), we even had a big (later deleted) conversation with ideas how to do it exactly. Something that would let people who want a challenge not one-shot kill enemies in PvP/story-trolls, something to spent battle energy on when you have all girls dropped and all of them upgraded.

Heck the challenge-troll idea came to life instantly after the same dev you quoted told me they will never fix difficulty in story.


Don't misunderstand me: I'm not saying the dev team didn't make any mistake, but the fact that you call them "full of themselves" - despite they spent more than 1 hour discussing with you, answering your questions and explaining their point of view - feels inapproriate.

But in that more than 1 hour of discussion, I got the feeling of them (him) being full of themselves (himself). My feeling after talking with Kaos is that he basically doesn't like people with a different opinions, and instead of maybe admitting they could do things better, try to suger-coat what they did as being a basement for future changes, to use his own words. I mean I am a bit full of myself too, which lets me spot another one similar to me easier ;P.

As a side note (cause we all love them lol): The biggest affection issue is its cost, how fast we can acquire gifts was an side issue that became important cause of the extreme cost in the first place. What this update did is band-aided the side issue, leaving main issue mostly untouched. I say mostly cause PvP free gift drops can help a bit, but how it helps is more or less static, thus it gets less and less helpful with rising cost.

I don't know any other game where the more characters you have, the harder it is to upgrade them. The idea itself seems stupid. But then we don't really use more than 3 characters in HH. So one could argue that the "default" ideas about character collecting games shouldn't apply to HH.

In conclusion: I am full of myself to a certain degree. But so are the devs or at least Koas himself. They made a big change, that made a lot of people angry, told us those changes were required for game future and that they will roll a fix to biggest flaw, asked us to wait a long time for it, and then rolled an update that more or less doesn't really fix the issue at hand. This makes some of those angry people, be even angrier to the point some will leave.

Personally I will wait for PvP update. It will let me confirm how full of shit or not devs are (as in were the 2.0 changes really necessary for future updates). And then quit or not game depending on the update/game state/future.


This is an important thing a lot of people are missing. As long as you are active and not just showing up to collect once a day, you will get enough money in a reasonable time. I earn enough to get a girl to 3 stars in two and a half days while going for the event girls... It's pretty much just money from my harem that I'm earning now, and it's enough to get me to full upgrades in less than 3 days.

Around 70th girl requires around 15k affection points. Which is 6.2 millions cash. Plus nearly 2 millions for upgrades themselves. You can get probably at most 120k cash/h if you work on your harem collecting. You can't even do 15k cash/h from event trolls. You would need to play like 16+ hours a day to be able to level one girl to 3* in less than 3 days. I wont say its impossible, but for most people thou that time will be far, far longer.

Just a small side note ;]

[soviras]

As a side note (cause we all love them lol): The biggest affection issue is its cost, how fast we can acquire gifts was an side issue that became important cause of the extreme cost in the first place. What this update did is band-aided the side issue, leaving main issue mostly untouched. I say mostly cause PvP free gift drops can help a bit, but how it helps is more or less static, thus it gets less and less helpful with rising cost.

So you want to say that the cost is the bigger issue when compared to affection being short in supply? The costs that you can manage to pay off in a matter of days worth of active playing? You do realize that it could take months to get enough gifts, right? Months, as opposed to the days that it would take to gain the money you need for the same upgrade...

The cost isn't a non-issue, but it was most certainly not the biggest issue. If anything, the cost was the side issue... I was gaining money at a rapid pace before this update because it was impossible to spend it fast enough through the market... Affection gain was so slow that it could get to the point where I was able to spend my earnings from the time I waited to upgrade a single girl and upgrade almost two more from the resulting gifts (despite the pachinko being much more expensive at level 100+)... Now I can spend less money to get affection than I would need to for using pachinko, and get it faster than when I still needed to use pachinko too because I need to gather less money.


Around 70th girl requires around 15k affection points. Which is 6.2 millions cash. Plus nearly 2 millions for upgrades themselves. You can get probably at most 120k cash/h if you work on your harem collecting. You can't even do 15k cash/h from event trolls. You would need to play like 16+ hours a day to be able to level one girl to 3* in less than 3 days. I wont say its impossible, but for most people thou that time will be far, far longer.

I collect money once every 2 hours, and yet it is more than enough to provide me with enough money. I could gain money faster if I still collected it actively, but I don't do that anymore. It isn't too hard to just log in once every now and then for a few seconds and just click through the list of girls.

If you assume that I'm active for 16 hours a day, then people who play for 8 hours a day (which would be logging in 4 times spread over the course of a day), would be able to do it in 5-6 days. If you log in less than 4 times, you would also significantly slow down the amount of girls you get in a given time frame, and while it would take longer than a week to get the money, you will have a lot more time in between obtaining girls as well. With more time in between girls, the time it takes to upgrade one can become larger without any repercussions. Even if you log in once a day, you will get the money faster than you can get a girl to drop with the current drop system.

[Unregistered]

Without wading into the "Great Affection Debate" of 2017, I just wanted to share some observations of the patch put in yesterday. I have played about 6-7 hours today so far and have already received 306 Affection in game play outside the market. I received 100 from missions (60+40), and 206 from PvP battles (7+7+7+7+7+7+7+7+25+25+100). Projecting out for the rest of the day, I anticipate, approx 500 free Affection total. That has a value of over 200k in current affection prices, and even more importantly is well more than half the amount than we were able to acquire from the market on any given day.

[Frelas]

7 hours playing and only 306 affection?, for my 3star i need 6000 affection which means i need to play 140 hours for one star(without buying from the market) The value of those affection items is totally irrelevant because the affection items have overinflated prices


If i would buy it all on the market it would cost me 2,5 million just for one 3rd star.
I'm amazed how many people in this thread still defend these absurd prices

[Tyruss]

Well I defend it because I dont have problem with it (yes I would be happy if I can max 3 stars on one girl every day by spending 100k in the shop so I can see her scenes faster but in the same way I would love to get event girls without spending kobans) ... It can be problem now since we are in event and we get 3k or 6k from bosses that drop event girls ... but after that you will be able to farm 500k from boss fights alone and more from your harem (depending on number of girls ... I have 61 girls and my max is now at 118k since I didnt max all girls) so with collecting every 2 or 3 hours you can get more ... and 1M a day will let you upgrade girls in not that long time compared to what you would need before while waiting for shop refresh (and again ... after 2.0 I got lot of girls at the same time so that is why now I dont have any cash at hand ... in one or two weeks or one month at max I will max stars on all of them and will be able to save money for next girl so I am able to max her in one day thx to new affection update)

And btw those numbers are if I take it easy and dont farm all day long

[soviras]

7 hours playing and only 306 affection?, for my 3star i need 6000 affection which means i need to play 140 hours for one star(without buying from the market) The value of those affection items is totally irrelevant because the affection items have overinflated prices


If i would buy it all on the market it would cost me 2,5 million just for one 3rd star.
I'm amazed how many people in this thread still defend these absurd prices

And what exactly makes the prices absurd? Don't get me wrong, the prices are not ideal right now, but they aren't absurd either. Your income goes up with each girl, making it easier to earn any specific amount of money. With the growing price, the price you pay is no longer a price of money, but a price of "time spent". The price of 2,5 million is no more absurd than it is to upgrade Bunny as your very first girl, because the amount of time you need to spend in order to get the money to get her to three stars is still comparable to what you need to spend to get your latest girl to three stars. The time spent to upgrade a girl does grow, but at a much slower pace, and it goes up slower and slower the more girls you get.

[Eversor86]

So you want to say that the cost is the bigger issue when compared to affection being short in supply? The costs that you can manage to pay off in a matter of days worth of active playing? You do realize that it could take months to get enough gifts, right? Months, as opposed to the days that it would take to gain the money you need for the same upgrade...

What I meant was that upgrade cost in affection points and their cash value plus cash for upgrades themselves is the main issue here. The affection point acquisition gating was created by that high cost, cause it was so high that what you could get per day in market/etc became the next even scarier gate. The fact that people started getting more cash on higher levels thx to selling free items made it worse.

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying affection in market wasn't an issue. But how you paint the picture kinda rubs me the wrong way.

70th girl costs total of 8m3 cash, 2m upgrades and rest in 15k affection points.

You could get the affection points before this update in less than 15 days if you gone for PvP, a bit slower if you didn't do PvP a lot.

With a 70 girl harem you can get around 100k/h from baby-sitting level of active collecting, and best troll gives around 60k/h. Thats 160k/h which means you would need nearly 52h of playing which is 6.5 days if you play 8h a day and less than 3 only if you play more than 16h a day. If you play less hours? Or just collect once per 2h and/or fight event trolls for example? Then you get <70k/h from that harem, and <20k/h from trolls which is <90k/h. And thats 92 hours or 11.5 days with 8h a day. And so on, so on.

You could actually keep the 15 days time wise to get affection points and play so inactively in cash side of things you would actually maybe even require more days.

So its not days to months, its 3 days in perfect active playing on just cash side with around 16h/day or more vs 15 days in just paying attention to level up after you bought up market after normal reset to level-up reset it again instantly on affection buying side.

As a personal note, cause you seem to like to use yourself as a example: I have 67 girls now, I do even trolls only now, and I collect harem on a semi-active state, as in more often than 2h but not stay there all the damn time. Its 2nd day of the update being live and I didn't even manage to go from 2* to 3* on a single girl. And she was 30% done already from my stored gifts. I maybe would get her to 3* if I didn't buy-out books, but still from my perspective maxing out a girl in <3 days is bullshit, especially if you collect once per 2h and do event trolls.

EDIT:

Just so we all get on the same page. I don't say that this update is bad. Neither I say game was fine without it. Nor I even say that its bad with it. Having some small goals of upgrading new girls is fine. Thou it kinda annoys me a bit, cause before 2.0 hit I was maxed on stats, and thus could play less to keep being maxed, and now its back to farmin ;]

[Tristelune]

I wont lie. I do want to bring a bit of negativity here. Cause people suger coat devs like you, and it gives me diabetes.
Dude, you can't be serious. You want to bring negativity because some people bring positivity? That sounds so... sick?! O_o


If a small kinda incoherent dev team (as in from what people told me every one of them is only good in one field, and has no clue about other people fields, they don't have anyone with good management skills so they often wait one for another, etc.) tells you they care first for core players, you can basically read it as they care only about them.
That's a very personal interpretation here. Can we stick to statements and facts instead of twisted interpretation? They said they care for both casual ("core") and more dedicated players. That's enough for me. Or you think they are lying?


Personally I will wait for PvP update. It will let me confirm how full of shit or not devs are (as in were the 2.0 changes really necessary for future updates). And then quit or not game depending on the update/game state/future.
hmm... as far as i know, the 2.0 changes are not especially necessary for the PvP update but for new features that will come later on. They have some interesting ideas for the harem, among other things...


Around 70th girl requires around 15k affection points. Which is 6.2 millions cash. Plus nearly 2 millions for upgrades themselves. You can get probably at most 120k cash/h if you work on your harem collecting. You can't even do 15k cash/h from event trolls. You would need to play like 16+ hours a day to be able to level one girl to 3* in less than 3 days. I wont say its impossible, but for most people thou that time will be far, far longer.
You possibly have some limitations i'm not aware of that make you unable to play whenever you want, but in my case, I have 75 girls and make around 1,9 M per day without playing more than 20 minutes (i think i mentionned 1,5M somewhere else, but in meantime, i double checked my numbers). That's quite far from the 16+ hours a day you mention.

[Eversor86]

Dude, you can't be serious. You want to bring negativity because some people bring positivity? That sounds so... sick?! O_o

No. You over-interpret the situation. I want people to see the whole picture not only the sugar-coated bubbly positive one.


That's a very personal interpretation here. Can we stick to statements and facts instead of twisted interpretation? They said they care for both casual ("core") and more dedicated players. That's enough for me. Or you think they are lying?

Them saying they care for all is enough for you. Not for me. Lets end this kinda off-topic thing at that.



hmm... as far as i know, the 2.0 changes are not especially necessary for the PvP update but for new features that will come later on. They have some interesting ideas for the harem, among other things...

Kaos actually himself used PvP as example of why the 2.0 changes were necessary. Supposedly before 2.0 the only way they could incentivize people to play PvP would be to add girl drops to it, and now they can do other things (like this update affection items). I personally don't talk/read discord or blog nearly at all, so I don't know any of their ideas. Will discus them when they hit live - so we will see?



You possibly have some limitations i'm not aware of that make you unable to play whenever you want, but in my case, I have 75 girls and make around 1,9 M per day without playing more than 20 minutes (i think i mentionned 1,5M somewhere else, but in meantime, i double checked my numbers). That's quite far from the 16+ hours a day you mention.

The only way I can imagine you making 1M9 a day in 20 minutes a day is if you calculate exact time when you actually have game opened. Thats not what we talk here about. If we say you need 12h a day of collecting harem, we mean you need 12h worth of time of waiting for CDs to recollect. It doesn't matter for this conversation if it takes you only actually 20 minutes of clicking things a day. Also baby-sitting harem means you click when ever a girl is ready to collect, thats far far more than 20 minutes a day.

Anyway with 1M9 a day you still need 4+ days to upgrade the example girl which is more than <3 days mentioned, so what I said stays true ;].

Personally I probably don't get much less than you per day. And 2 days of <1M9 cash gain per day, is up to 9k1 affection points, which is not enough to take 70th girl from 2* to 3*, so I didn't lie here either.

So no clue why are you so confused by what I said hehe.

[UnRegistered]

I did some number crunching (the old fashioned way) earlier today. Unless I made a mistake or forgot some important aspect of the game, the numbers seem to match up, in the sense that the time it takes to earn the cash needed to level up a girl (This includes both affection point cost and the upgrade cost) from 0 stars to 3 stars stay more or less the same no matter how many haramettes you have.

(Disclaimer: I didn't use the exact values of earnings but a single rounded up figure for all the girls, ignored the income from trolls/pvp, and I assumed that the formulae for affection point calulation haven't changed after the new patch.)


And also yes, with the 8 hour refresh time and the new legendary items, you can get the gifts you need faster than before. For example, if you need 15k affection points (which means you have more than enough girls in the harem to get the legendary items) and you just want to use legendary panties, you need just 10 of them. Even if only of them shows up with each refresh, you can get 10 in 80 hours. Before the patch the best item was the green panties with gave 100 points each, so you needed 150 of those. And even if all 8 slots in the shop we green panties (which never happens) you'd still have to have gone through 19 refreshes to gather all of them, and with the 12 hour refresh rate it would have taken roughly 10 days.


However, some things you need to keep in mind:

1. You won't feel like you're saving up any money because you'll be using up all you earn on getting the haramettes to 3 stars.
2. If you don't really need them, you should try to fight the urge to buy everything in the shop every time it refreshes.
3. The only time you'll be able to save some cash is when you're done raising the affection levels.
4. The number of affection points a girl needs to raise the affection level seems to be dependent on the number assigned to her in the harem, not by the total number of girls you have in the harem. (Or it depends on the number of 3 star girls already in the harem. <- Someone needs to check this.)

I was thinking for withdrawing my earlier suggestion to have the incomes increased by a percentage that goes up with the number of haramettes you have, but then I remembered the cash we have to spend on increasing our stats. With 150 stat points to add per level gained, it soon becomes quite expensive to max them. And we gain at least 1 level a day just by completing the daily missions. Yes, there's no use in maxing them out at the moment, but still sooner or later there will be some change to the game and we will have to max them out. Some extra cash would come in handy at that point.