[Event 21] Crucible of Combat vs The Demon Lust (Union Event)

[Kitty]

https://cf.g.kamihimeproject.dmmgames.com/front/images/background/25/chara_l_25.png

Soon Rahab/Medusa will come to an end. I hope you all did well with that event.
Then finally comes another Union Event! Which imo is probably the most fun out of the 3 types, as we can fight together with friends/teammates and help each other with progress!

I don't know too much about this event, other than the fact that the success rate of debuffs for the Demon Lust is 30%, and even if you manage to use ability like Mordred's which lowers the resist for debuffs, it still remains 30% ...so make sure you all each have debuff abilities so you can maximize your chances for the best damage! Especially in higher Lv Demon battles!
It's going to be nice to see our damage with all those beginning buffs again! :D

https://i.imgur.com/bopmPxd.png

Individual PP - 2.5M*
Overall Union PP - 60M
Expert Demons - 150
Ultimate Demons - 300*
for all possible rewards.


Recommended to use Mordred's black propaganda ability, though it has a 70% chance to miss lol, but if enough people in the battle use it then it will work. Best to not let Ultimate Demon use her overdrive too much, as you may miss out on doing full burst attacks and using your abilities.
This union battle seems to be harder than the first one, but we're all much stronger since then! Best of luck to everyone.
What are your formations/teams looking like? Do you think you'll get all the rewards?

I hope everyone is in an active union, and you can all work together! I know my union is the best! :o

Here is my team! Using Andromeda because I'll be battling with a friend, so must heal/def buff to both! :D
Fire is my main team, which is kinda funny since the last 2 great Kami I found are Agni/Acala ... They show up just in time for this event! Agni's elemental buff is nice, and Acala's self atk buff is good too, will be nice when enemy is raging she can use her raging ability.
Amaterasu is also healing (regen) along with a huge 30% def buff to allies... her debuff is just like d'arts, 20% for atk/deff BUT as I said, just a 30% chance for it to work, so I can only hope.
Using either Black Propaganda or Ambush as EX ability, depends what my friend is using.. I kinda forgot.
https://i.imgur.com/ZyvOvBI.jpg
69% bonus with my fire weapons, will most likely be using Fafnir/Echidna for 40-60% elemental bonus to Fire too along with my own 50% character bonus Ifrit...

Good luck everyone! I hope those who couldn't get the Souls from last Union can get them this time!

[Slashley]

You took the rewards from the rerun. In this one, it should be 300 Ultimates for all prizes, the last meaningful one at 200 (300 nets you... 5 Seeds, 3 pieces of SR fodder, SSR book and a SR grail, woop woop). 2.5m personal PP, 55m Union PP and 150 Experts for the rest of the prizes.

Anyway, being Thunder main, the bane of my team is here. Well, I've been prepping my Fire team for the last month, so I should do fine. Biggest problem is my 1-star Apo, so at best I can get 70% elemental attack. It doesn't help how most of my FL has changed to Dullahan, sigh.

[Eunicorn]

My team is abundant of debuffs, although not really ideal. I replaced Amon with Nyarlathotep but keeping the former to Sub1. I wish I could get Ares/Acala/Svarog/Brynhildr asap.

[bigblackcock]

to be honest i'm not sure how much i'll practice in this event since i want to save as much seeds as possible for jack o latern event,
but i guess 2.5M PP shouldn't be a problem, so i'll leave the rest for my union members :D
ofc, it just about the seeds, i'll also use BP whenever i can so it's not like i'll stop to help them :O
anyway, as for the formation i'll go like that:
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/314411010301755392/359752134352306177/fireteam.png?width=570&height=431
arc to cut damage, regeneration, attack debuff+ ambush as EX skill, so i'll go with A frame debuff while other member for B frame :O
svarog is kinda new, got her in that offense gacha, attack buff and damage
agni for fire attack boost
and amon to block sebuff, it say demon can block us from using skills, so if it's some kind of debuff i guess amon can block it.
and ofc brynhildr to heal and attack boost

[AgentFakku]

oh shit, better go check if my union has at least half active

[Corintis]

oh shit, better go check if my union has at least half active
Oh hey, I didn't expect to see you here lol :p
I only bothered coming here since a Union Member of mine linked this page.
We're usually pretty up-to-date with future events, so unlike FKG, I never check the forums over here.

(quickly makes room on the friend list)

[phuonglop12a2]

Hmmm, i think this event will take a lot of my time ==

Ha ha :p
Hope my kamihime weapon ticket can get a good fire kamihime :p

[shko]

6652

ex skill Avalon Guidance frameA and Nike buff frame B

[bigblackcock]

and it seen like we'll have a long break again, it'll be her in about 94-96H from now so...yea...*sigh*

[AgentFakku]

Oh hey, I didn't expect to see you here lol :p
I only bothered coming here since a Union Member of mine linked this page.
We're usually pretty up-to-date with future events, so unlike FKG, I never check the forums over here.

(quickly makes room on the friend list)

oh shit my bad, I didn't see u,

HCB really needs a notification system - I don't see replies and some kind of hey, idiot, someone replied to you

[Skulkraken]

Unions have the ability to spend points on buffing their members' debuff rates, right? Does the 70% miss rate thing counter the benefits of getting that perk?

[Slashley]

I glanced the Jap Wiki and I believe it said that in this event, that buff doesn't work very well.

[Fapper]

Bleh, Lilim Superbia was much cuter!

[Unregistered]

Huh, in retrospect it makes sense, but I'm pleasantly surprised that Amon's debuff blocker does work against the ability seal debuff.

[Unregistered]

So has anyone on our version confirmed that the status ailment success chance buff is 100% useless yet?

[phuonglop12a2]

LOL.... My lilim battle still doesn't end after 1 hour @@.

No one want join this with < 5% hp ~.~

[Kureru]

So has anyone on our version confirmed that the status ailment success chance buff is 100% useless yet?

I doubt it. Vicissitudes at least works properly. I managed to get -40% atk/def on level 20 ult and she started taking 30k from normal attacks and dealing under 1k, status success up should be the best thing to get for high level ult.

[AutoCrimson]

must say, the debuffs landing rate is awful

[cinderflame]

Any Tips/Advice for a beginner that struggles to stay Alive at Expert Lilim Luxuria? Maybe i Should Spam Standard Instead? I Want to Get all Individual PP Reward.

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk

[Eunicorn]

must say, the debuffs landing rate is awful

Indeed it is. At least you can control her rage gauge with a team with at least 30k ATK efficiently, preferably a team with elemental advantage.

---

I've been handling Lilim Luxuria with Mordred w/ Ambush. I'm not certain if I should recommend Yata/Jorm and/or Crom/Cthug, but those helped me handle her pretty well.

[AgentFakku]

game is fucking buggy as hell

teh screen keeps going error

at least, I can resume raid battles but it's getting annoyin

[Pareidolia]

The event Eidolon, it says "When you have 3 Attributes in Party Wind Attack +70%"
Does it work if I have 4 Winds on main and 2 Different Attributes in Sub Party?
Already got MLB Garuda anyways if no

[Kitty]

The event Eidolon, it says "When you have 3 Attributes in Party Wind Attack +70%"
Does it work if I have 4 Winds on main and 2 Different Attributes in Sub Party?
Already got MLB Garuda anyways if no

The bonus does not count if you have 2 other element kami in sub team. Have to be on main team. She's kind of useless, compared to MLB Garuda anyway as her bonus isn't elemental.
She'd just be good as sub eido cause her summon ability is nice.

[Slashley]

If I recall right, Jap wiki said that the current, active party are what counts. Your sub-party doesn't matter, but if somebody dies from your main party and thus gets replaced with a sub-party member and you now have 4 Wind characters active, whoops, you just lost your bonus. Well, as said by Kitty, no big deal. You'll want to use Garuda until the 45% Wind Elemental Eidolon.

Anyway, has nostalgia tinted my glasses, or did they severely nerf the fodder drops? You get 1-2 silvers, 1-2 golds, and 1-2 plat for first place. And I think you got 2-3 Plat for first place before?
Not only that, but silvers are now R fodder, which I think used to be seeds or SR fodder? And plats are now like 33% T3 Crystals, which I don't think happened last time.

[Skulkraken]

game is fucking buggy as hell

teh screen keeps going error

at least, I can resume raid battles but it's getting annoyin

Same.

Specifically, I've been getting consistent errors anytime a girl gets knocked out and I try to have the incoming girl use an ability.

[CrimsonRunner]

Can any1 provide info if increasing the chance to apply afflictions to the boss is actually useful?

[Pareidolia]

Debuffs>Buffs
You should go for it

[Diesirae]

Can any1 provide info if increasing the chance to apply afflictions to the boss is actually useful?

We got 100 on Ailment Success.. not feeling a big (if any) difference unfortunately so we're probably going back to our previous way tomorrow.

To be specific.. Even with 100 on success, still out of ~18 afflictions/debuffs I throw, I'd be lucky if more than 1-2 connect.

[MrAir]

Chances are still low, even with this buff, with Arthur it s looks easier... But our union have not yet reached the high levels of the bosses, cuz we w8ing for burst time, and till it most likely we farm them alone...

Anyway i still think that things could work differently when we reach high levels, and when we start fight like 3-4+ vs ultimate boss together. 3-4 mordereds should lnflict all debuffs quite well, and im sure this should work better than pure damage or treatment.

[Unregistered]

Any Tips/Advice for a beginner that struggles to stay Alive at Expert Lilim Luxuria? Maybe i Should Spam Standard Instead? I Want to Get all Individual PP Reward.

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk

The difference in rewards between standard and expert don't seem to be great enough to be worth the trouble if it's proving hard.
Heck, I personally just auto through standard anyway myself, just to save the hassle. Moreover, if you're in an active enough union, experts could be completely unnecessary.

[sanahtlig]

I ran the numbers, and with a full grid of assault SR weapons (+130% attack), 2x +40% elemental attack is better than 2x +90% character attack (from Lilims) even in best-case scenarios for the latter (3x kamihime of the matching element). In addition, losing the Lilim buff due to a character dying is a significant risk that will tend to cripple the team in difficult content. Thus Lilims are recommended only for newer players who don't have much assault skill or don't have access to better eidolons.

[Skulkraken]

I ran the numbers, and with a full grid of assault SR weapons (+130% attack), 2x +40% elemental attack is better than 2x +90% character attack (from Lilims) even in best-case scenarios for the latter (3x kamihime of the matching element). In addition, losing the Lilim buff due to a character dying is a significant risk that will tend to cripple the team in difficult content. Thus Lilims are recommended only for newer players who don't have much assault skill or don't have access to better eidolons.

Teamwise, the older eidolons might be better, but what about for individual team members? I've been relying heavily on Acala (buffed up by the Crowley soul line) for this event, so I'm wondering if a rampaging, double-attacking hime like her would benefit more from Lilims than the standard choices for eidolons.

[sanahtlig]

Teamwise, the older eidolons might be better, but what about for individual team members? I've been relying heavily on Acala (buffed up by the Crowley soul line) for this event, so I'm wondering if a rampaging, double-attacking hime like her would benefit more from Lilims than the standard choices for eidolons.
Bringing it down to individuals doesn't change the underlying math. Changing the premises would require a source of elemental attack, such as from a temporary buff or elemental advantage. But if you have +130% attack and elemental advantage, none of this matters anyway, because if a maxed team with elemental advantage can't beat the content, then no one can. The point of optimization is usually to overcome worst-case scenarios (otherwise you'd be better off running easier content you could clear more reliably). Lilims introduce risk rather than mitigate it, which makes them a particularly poor choice.

The final nail in the coffin for Lilims is that Lilims are useless to anyone running a team with 4-5 same-element characters. That means that Lilim users will end up ostracized with only other Lilim-users available as friends. From a game theory standpoint, Lilims are doomed to fail.

[Slashley]

I ran the numbers, and with a full grid of assault SR weapons (+130% attack), 2x +40% elemental attack is better than 2x +90% character attack (from Lilims) even in best-case scenarios for the latter (3x kamihime of the matching element). In addition, losing the Lilim buff due to a character dying is a significant risk that will tend to cripple the team in difficult content. Thus Lilims are recommended only for newer players who don't have much assault skill or don't have access to better eidolons.The little amount of credit that goes to Lilim is that they're much, much better if you've... say, got three amazing SSRs, such as one offensive Wind and other two off-element support like... Sol and Cthulhu, then you can use Lilim to seriously buff up the core of your team (Soul and your Wind SSR).

So when you don't have the option of 5 Wind users vs. 3 Wind users to begin with, since that's all you have. Also, did your calculation include 90% character attack 40% elemental vs. 80% elemental? Because that'd be a much more fair comparison.


But yeah, Lilim probably still loses against double-elemental even in the unrealistic scenario of the "unfortunate rainbow gacha dream," and this is before factoring in the risk of somebody dying. But mostly because elemental attack is completely bonkers. Especially with a completely bonkers 130% weapon grid. And it's only going to get better with 45%+45% and then 50%+50%. ... or just whale it up for 120%+120%.

[bigblackcock]

i managed to solo level 42 ultimate demon today during burst time, didn't expect it as i've thought there will always be someone to join so...sisn't record it :/
i guess that on the last days of the events when everyone use up their seeds it'll be easier, but for now...a battle vs lilim XD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtRXdmYdWK0

[sanahtlig]

Also, did your calculation include 90% character attack 40% elemental vs. 80% elemental? Because that'd be a much more fair comparison.
Combining a Lilim with an elemental attack eidolon provides a damage boost, but if a character dies you're still screwed. Either you sub in a primary element character and risk losing your buff, or you sub in a 4th element character and risk only two characters getting the buff. Either way, you're gambling and you're going to lose about half the time. The small damage increase isn't worth the additional risk in difficult content. You might as well run the 3/5 matching element team with usual eidolons.

[sanahtlig]

i managed to solo level 42 ultimate demon today during burst time, didn't expect it as i've thought there will always be someone to join so...sisn't record it :/
I soloed a LV52 Ultimate just now outside of Burst time with full Union buffs (attack, HP, double attack, healing) and a Water team. It came down to a combination of some debuffs landing, lots of healing (Andromeda and Sol), and having Burst saved at opportune moments to avoid the Rage Overdrive. The double attack buff was likely essential to having Burst in time for each Rage Overdrive. But for auto-battle, replacing double attack with affliction resist down and going Mordred might have better results.

[Slashley]

Well, first day's Burst Hours are done. Union got overexcited and way overextended, but whatever, it's not competitive so a little fun doesn't kill anyone. So I went along with the ride. we ended up at 110 kills (20+90). I doubt anyone will kill ult91 overnight, so that score should stick.

2.5m personal PP, 10m Union PP. I have a feeling I am outgrowing my Union.

[AgentFakku]

Sometimes, they change the Burst times but sometimes, we can't get everyone on it
6749
I was lucky I get in there, get some action

[AutoCrimson]

well, auto-ulti is limited for 18 for me, w/o buffs... auto-expert is 50.
cant really see point of doing much manual runs, but must say, since expert seems always give back that seed, im okay with a little spending for Ulti
(still waiting for next light event, having Sol, Metatron and Raphael shifts my gear towards light..)

[OtherGuy02]

So... the Blade of Guilty Lust... What do people make of it? Is it even worth using as either a main or sub over a MLB'ed SR weapon? Not sure I'm going to with that odd weapon skill.

[Kureru]

Here's the formula from the wiki:
(SLｖ/2)+20*(1-HP/MHP)

At 100% health, skill level 20, its 10%, which is the same as an R assault. At 85% its the same as SR assault.

I'm planning on using it, mostly because I don't have enough wind weapons ^^

[sanahtlig]

Even SSR Defender weapons are worth grabbing since the base stats alone nearly make up for the loss in assault skill. Now add back +10% of the lost assault skill and the result is pretty obvious.

[Unregistered]

So, one way to look at needing to be at 85% or less HP for it to be match/beat SR assault (and 70% being the threshold for SSR):

If you're spending the vast majority of a fight at full, or near full, health, life's pretty comfortable. You're presumably not at risk of losing, so you don't actually care about how much harder you're hitting, outside of time/vanity reasons. Anything can go in that slot, so it's not the most interesting case.

When you're spending more time in a fight further away from full health, that's when you start being under more pressure to be able to end the fight sooner. That's when you start caring about how much time you need to win versus the time you can hold out for. And the numbers just so happen to be such that this is when the SSR pride effect starts winning out.

[bigblackcock]

I think that i'll use that weapon in my wind grid after all.
My wind grid isn't full yet so i can just replace one of the other element weapon for it.
Also arc and mordred can use that weapon so i have more options for using souls.
However i'm not sure that i'll upgrade the skill yet as i want to save a gems to limit break awakened gaia (when she come out) and level up the skill of the SSR and assault weapon in jack o latern event.

[RyeX]

What is the recommended Grail distribution again?

[someuser825]

is it possible to get a copy of either SSR from a rainbow chest like in other events?

not sure if my union is going to be active enough to hit the union PP rewards but pretty sure the individual and subjugation we'll get

[AgentFakku]

my union finsihed EXP
6762
not sure wut Union means - the raid battles? LOL

[Eunicorn]

That "Union" thing is the PP of all union members combined.

[AgentFakku]

dicks... I misclicked and used my Thunder team (from doing the usual 3 dailies each day)
6770
now, I'm stuck until someone from my Union kills it LOL

[AutoCrimson]

why not just f5 and go to another battle?

[Skarfang81]

Anyone have any suggestions for Grail distribution - my guild is only small with about 10 members (who are all really active) so ive been using +50ATK and +50 Triple ATK which seems like a good distribution, saving the spares then towards the last few days of the event we'll go for a splurge but if people have suggestions on what order we should spend grails on im open for suggestions to try.

[MrAir]

Anyone have any suggestions for Grail distribution - my guild is only small with about 10 members (who are all really active) so ive been using +50ATK and +50 Triple ATK which seems like a good distribution, saving the spares then towards the last few days of the event we'll go for a splurge but if people have suggestions on what order we should spend grails on im open for suggestions to try.

Default for this event is atk/double_atk/hp/recovery
but it's not always correct, depends on play style. How many ppl rdy to farm ultimates/experts together for long time, how many union pp u want, how much strength ur union player's got etc etc etc...

[Slashley]

Default for this event is atk/double_atk/hp/recovery
but it's not always correct, depends on play style. --Since there's a lot of active people in my guild, although they're individually weak, we're going with atk/double/burst/hp. When you have 10-15 people on each Burst Hour, Seeding their way through Ultimates, having that Burst bonus matters a lot.

Resource efficient? No. But group tactics.

Recovery seems like a strange option to me. Does everyone in your guild(s, as I see Sanahtlig used that as well) have Sol? Pretty much nobody has it over here, so it feels like a massive waste to invest in Andromeda and those few who have her, Brynhildr.

[AutoCrimson]

Aphrodite suits well for me as a healer for this event, too.. tho i still waging the odds of putting her in the backup row and bring forth Brynh.
idk if Amaterasu HoT is affected by recovery, she always seems to heal 400

[Skarfang81]

Does +Double ATK rate give more of a bonus than investing in +Triple ATK rate out of interest? Like does it trigger more often?

[AgentFakku]

assume Grail can only be activated by guild leader

never really use 'em

[Eunicorn]

idk if Amaterasu HoT is affected by recovery, she always seems to heal 400
We had a sub-leader intently increased the heal power at 100 and it seems effective with my team with Amaterasu (1000/t).


Like does it trigger more often?
In my runs, it does, although it still depends on randomness.

[Slashley]

assume Grail can only be activated by guild leaderAnd sub-leaders and officers.
Does +Double ATK rate give more of a bonus than investing in +Triple ATK rate out of interest? Like does it trigger more often?I don't think we know for sure.

But, as far as we know, double attack happens at 8% base and triple attack at 3% base. If a stack of 100 means "100% more", then we're comparing 16% double and 6% triple. And double attack is just far better in that case.

But, I don't think anyone has done the data on it. It'd be a really frustrating project, so I can't really blame them either!

[sanahtlig]

We noticed a much bigger boost from the double attack vs. the triple attack buff.

Multiple elements have access to moderate to strong healers (Water, Fire, Light), and the heal buff is truly immense: up to 2.5x. With two strong healers I was auto soloing LV90+ Expert Demons for 60k PP each, which is an easy way to cruise to the individual rewards once your Union has earned the Ultimate Demon rewards.

[Slashley]

--
Multiple elements have access to moderate to strong healers (Water, Fire, Light), and the heal buff is truly immense: up to 2.5x. With two strong healers I was auto soloing LV90+ Expert Demons for 60k PP each, which is an easy way to cruise to the individual rewards once your Union has earned the Ultimate Demon rewards.Aphrodite, SSR Nike... uh, Amaterasu...? Sol. All SSRs. Well, I guess we can count SR Nike and Brynhildr (200/t) as the latter has more healing output than Amaterasu (171/t).

With Andromeda, I auto-skill soloed Expert101 this morning and I don't even have any heal boost... then again, Fire is my secondary element at 88% weapon grid currently. Also 70 Brynhildr, Agni and Amon is fairly good for a non-SSR group, so maybe it's not fair to compare. And I have no idea how lucky I was with Sniper Shot and/or Overdrives, it's not like I followed the fight.

[AgentFakku]

kay, I think I know when my union activates 'em during raid burst hr

6786

good thing, im outta work

[Blueguy]

Am I missing something or are we only getting 3 of the SSR sword?

[bigblackcock]

Am I missing something or are we only getting 3 of the SSR sword?

you probably missing something 'cause i have that sword MLB.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/314410890281877505/363083643809300482/bladeoflust.png

[Blueguy]

Ok, didn't see it twice under Union PP.

[Unregistered]

Ok, didn't see it twice under Union PP.

Last reward worth getting. 25m union PP

[Waniiii]

Last copy of the event eidolon is at 55 M Union PP, eh

[MrAir]

Last copy of the event eidolon is at 55 M Union PP, eh

Don't rly worry about that, even 85 level eidolon has good stats, it still valuable at wind decks as side eidolon for its summon ability. Most important is mlb ssr weapon, even if it got strange effect, it's still ssr weapon.

[Slashley]

The "strange effect" is good. It is a good weapon, so are all the Union weapons.

[bigblackcock]

ok, i think that i miss something.
in japanese wiki it say that lilim's attack boost should be 90% character attack when MLB, but when iMLB min it's 70%:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/314410890281877505/363385555947487233/luxuria.png
is there an update in the future that increase their effect or something?

[Slashley]

Yes, it took them like a month to realize how horrendous the 70% character attack for 3 characters is, and thought they could fix it by making it 90%. I guess I could add the buff date to the Encyclopedia.


Anyway, somebody said that Expert tends to give you your Seed back and... well, turns it out does. So I spent five hours watching YouTube and Twitch while auto-skilling my way through Experts for giggles. I did the sheer majority of level 30 -> 97, had a wipe at 95. Now my Union members aren't all that pleased with me, they're complaining that Expert is now too hard! I guess the nightshift especially won't be all that pleased, but maybe they can actually work on Ultimate this time around.

... certainly not doing that again though, my god. Even though it was auto-skill, that was still exhausting.

[bigblackcock]

Yes, it took them like a month to realize how horrendous the 70% character attack for 3 characters is, and thought they could fix it by making it 90%. I guess I could add the buff date to the Encyclopedia.


Anyway, somebody said that Expert tends to give you your Seed back and... well, turns it out does. So I spent five hours watching YouTube and Twitch while auto-skilling my way through Experts for giggles. I did the sheer majority of level 30 -> 97, had a wipe at 95. Now my Union members aren't all that pleased with me, they're complaining that Expert is now too hard! I guess the nightshift especially won't be all that pleased, but maybe they can actually work on Ultimate this time around.

... certainly not doing that again though, my god. Even though it was auto-skill, that was still exhausting.

i barely did 1 or 2 experts the whole event so i don't really know, but is there a nice chance to find SR material weapon out of them?
now that we got all the rewards that all what i need to improve my grid level so wondering if i should stick to ultimate or go for expert instead.

[Slashley]

Expert reward was a fairly consistent 2x R fodder (50/50 Wind Eidolon/Hammer), 1x Seed, 1x SR fodder (50/50 Wind Eidolon/Sword). For 1 BP. Uh, I didn't exactly write them down though, maybe there was some T2 Crystals in there.

Whileas Ultimate is... 1-2x R fodder, no Seed, 1-2x SR fodder (33/33/33 Wind Eidolon/Sword/T3-freaking-Crystal)? For 3BP, feels like getting gibbed.

[Unregistered]

Expert is probably my pick if you're looking for just SR weapon materials. An individual Expert presumably has lower odds of dropping an SR material, but BP-wise you get 3 cracks at Expert for every 1 Ultimate, and time/effort-wise, Expert's just a lot quicker/easier. Also, while the T3 crystal is in Ultimate's reward list, I don't think that I've seen it in Expert's so far.

[Unregistered]

I actually don't remember if Expert can drop T2 crystals, but if it does, it's significantly less prominent than T3 crystals from Ultimate.

[bigblackcock]

Expert reward was a fairly consistent 2x R fodder (50/50 Wind Eidolon/Hammer), 1x Seed, 1x SR fodder (50/50 Wind Eidolon/Sword). For 1 BP. Uh, I didn't exactly write them down though, maybe there was some T2 Crystals in there.

Whileas Ultimate is... 1-2x R fodder, no Seed, 1-2x SR fodder (33/33/33 Wind Eidolon/Sword/T3-freaking-Crystal)? For 3BP, feels like getting gibbed.

as i want to get more seeds for jack o latern event and there is also a chance to find weapon mats for just 1 BP, i think i'll do expert from now till the end of the event.
thanks for the info :O

[Unregistered]

Anyway, somebody said that Expert tends to give you your Seed back and... well, turns it out does. So I spent five hours watching YouTube and Twitch while auto-skilling my way through Experts for giggles. I did the sheer majority of level 30 -> 97, had a wipe at 95. Now my Union members aren't all that pleased with me, they're complaining that Expert is now too hard! I guess the nightshift especially won't be all that pleased, but maybe they can actually work on Ultimate this time around.


Why are they complaining? You get a seed even if you're not mvp/vice, so I don't see a reason to complain. They just need to work together to kill them to get their seeds.

[AgentFakku]

damn you guys are already done

IDK about individual but my Union is almost done w/ Ultimate Sub and Regular Union (imo wut do you call it?)
680168026803

[Pareidolia]

I feel sad for your union

[Pareidolia]

I've just soloed a level 72 Ultimate Demon, it was the most rewarding feeling when I got it with 40% DEF Debuff and was hitting for 46k per hit

Truly satisfying

[sanahtlig]

I've auto-skill soloed up to Demon Expert 106 or so. At that point the normal overdrive 1-shots a single target, and raging overdrive spam becomes difficult to heal through (without elemental advantage).

[Pareidolia]

My higher manuals are 127 Expert and 86 Ultimate solo, i don't quite know if i'd be able to auto over 80 with 100% success everytime

[Slashley]

Is it just me, or are there undocumented changes to the game?
... not that Nutaku does any patch notes to begin with...

1. Ygg now heals for 2*200, down from 3*200? The Jap wiki seems to always have said 2*200 though, so am I just remembering wrong...?
2. Regen can now be overwritten, I think any Regen can overwrite any. Will properly test once event is over.
3. The whole "You summoned an Eidolon, now you need to wait five seconds to complete your previous action!" thing seems to be gone?

[Superbias Husbando]

Will the Lilim Superbia Battle ever be back? I need a complete set of my Sin waifus.

[Sfay]

Is it just me, or are there undocumented changes to the game?
... not that Nutaku does any patch notes to begin with...

1. Ygg now heals for 2*200, down from 3*200? The Jap wiki seems to always have said 2*200 though, so am I just remembering wrong...?
2. Regen can now be overwritten, I think any Regen can overwrite any. Will properly test once event is over.
3. The whole "You summoned an Eidolon, now you need to wait five seconds to complete your previous action!" thing seems to be gone?

1. and 2. have always been this way (or at least for the regens I am using, maybe some regens don't get overwritten and overwrite others but that would be really weird)

Union raids get rematches yes

[Corintis]

Super late to this chat, since I'm usually in an active Union Discord for Kamipro instead of HBC, but I can confirm a few numbers.

100-Ailment only has a 30% average chance of debuffs hitting. Successful Vicissitudes of Fortune increases the rate by roughly 15% (45% average)
100-Double Attack has a 40~45% average success rate. Combined with Orleans Call, becomes 60% average.
100-Recovery is as everyone confirmed, amazing, and let's you Autorun Lv100 Experts (with about 10k min-HP to tank & 2 Healers)

Atm, everyone in my union is just dog-piling the experts to complete the last 10m total Union PP. Been a busy week.

[Unregistered]

Yea, +healing's fun. Going from 1600 HP/5 turns to 4000 HP/5 turns (ie when one has only Andromeda) is very noticable.

[Shieun]

Is +healing a new thing?

I've always thought + healing is always the better option than double/triple attack and burst damage... I mean, when you're doing 150k per hit, another 100k damage on your total burst don't really matter much right?

[CrimsonRunner]

the buffs are all % based

[Corintis]

Is +healing a new thing?

I've always thought + healing is always the better option than double/triple attack and burst damage... I mean, when you're doing 150k per hit, another 100k damage on your total burst don't really matter much right?
It's definitely more popular this time, since debuffing is out the window this event.

I personally fall on the healing side of the table, as stalling can create miracles across any game. But you also need two things to make it work; the bulk and sustain; can't heal if you die in one hit.

That was one reason my Union didn't completely invest in recovery for the 1st Union Event; lots of us didn't have a weapon/eidolon grid tanky enough at the time to capitalize on it (debuffing was also huge for that event). So if your Union isn't tanky enough to handle it, offense is the best defense (and is a default setting that should work with everyone).

[AutoCrimson]

too bad my Union is not really active... well i hope 30kk PP should be achieveable

still, 14k hp is good 6836

[Unregistered]

Well, the thing about +healing is requiring a player to put healer(s) in your team. I always run at least 1 healer, so it works out great for me. But I prefer to not assume that everybody in a given union plays with a healer or two.
+double/+triple are stuff that everybody benefits from regardless of composition, with +double being more reliable while +triple is for the higher possible ceiling.

Personally, +HP/+Atk/+healing/+double does seem to strike a nice balance of buffing reliable survival and murder power.

Lots of words on +burst incoming cause I got the urge to type it up.
+burst is just mathematically terrible outside of burst hour strategies. It's not gonna turn a 150k burst into 250k unless your entire team is R, or something like that. The reason is that the modifier doesn't go where you'd think it goes. On the surface, it looks like should be an extra multiplier stuck at the end of the burst damage formula, right? The problem is that burst damage buffs don't actually go there.
Let's take a look at how burst damage is roughly calculated:

(individual kamihime) Burst damage = [{normal attack damage * (A + burst buffs) + B} / hit count] * hit count
The dividing and multiplying by hit count is just for stability, so the real meat of it is:
{normal attack damage * (A + burst buffs) + B}
A and B are based on rarity and whether the main weapon (for your spirit) or the kamihime is at 3*

For the spirit, R weapons have A = 2.0 or 2.5, depending on 3* or not. B = 1500 regardless.
SR weapons have A = 3.0 or 3.5, and B = 2000.
SSR weapons have A = 4.0 or 4.5, and B = 2500

For kamihime, R's unlisted in the table on the wiki.
SR have A = 3.0 or 3.5, and B = 2000.
SSR have A = 4.5, 5.0, or 5.5, and B = 2500 or 3000 (as in the future, some SSR can awaken and level up all over again)

The +burst union buff is +1.5% per level, so at the max level of 100 in +burst, it's adding 1.5 to A.
If you're using a 3* SR weapon, that changes your A from 3.5 to 5.0, which is a ~42% increase
If you're using a non-3* SSR weapon, your A's going from 4.0 to 5.5, which is a ~37.5% increase
If you're using a 3* SSR weapon, your A's going from 4.5 to 6.0, which is a ~33% increase

For a 3*/4* SR kamihime, her A goes from 3.5 to 5.0, for a ~42% increase
For a 3*/4* SSR kamihime, her A goes from 5.0 to 6.5, for a ~30% increase

Burst streak damage is basically the sum of burst damage * {1 / (7 - number_of_bursts)} * weakness/resistance * (1 + burst_streak_bonus). That last bonus usually comes from eidolons; union buff does NOT play into it.
Oh, and apparently once you cross 1 million damage for burst, dampening comes into play. Excess damage over that threshold gets reduced by a huge amount (apparently reduced to 1/10th of what it ought to be otherwise). In case anybody wonders why we're not seeing 2 million damage bursts.

Anyway, lv 100 +burst will typically actually raise your burst damage by somewhere between one third and two fifths, more than that if more of your team is composed of R's. Less than that if you're such a beast that dampening is a thing you run into (I, for one, am nowhere near that power level).

Usage-wise, during burst hour, you load into the battle and unload your full burst right away. You enjoy the perks of the +burst damage buff without having to consider its strategic drawback.

Outside of burst hour, you.... have to actually build up your burst gauge. And outside of actually bursting, the +burst is doing nothing for you. And Lust in particular likes to lower your burst gauge with either her raging overdive (expert) or normal overdrive (ultimate). So it's even trickier than normal to actually utilize the +burst buff.

[Slashley]

--
Oh, and apparently once you cross 1 million damage for burst, dampening comes into play. Excess damage over that threshold gets reduced by a huge amount (apparently reduced to 1/10th of what it ought to be otherwise). In case anybody wonders why we're not seeing 2 million damage bursts.--Does this damping apply to the final burst bonus only? Since it's quite easy to break 1m+ in the combat log. With the debuff resistance going on, it's pretty hard to hit 2m in this fight to begin with.

[Unregistered]

That I'm not actually sure on. In the attenuation/dampening section on the wiki, burst streaks are listed as still in need of investigation.
What's also not investigated is how burst damage is calculated when the normal attack damage itself is dampened for passing the threshold (350k for normal attacks). Like whether it's the post-dampened value or the original calculated value that is used as the base for burst damage calculation.
It's something to keep an eye on in future, more debuff friendly events. See what the numbers look like when high powered Siegfrieds are involved :P

[MrAir]

For union events this eidolon https://goo.gl/NrXsAK will be extremely useful.

[sanahtlig]

For union events this eidolon https://goo.gl/NrXsAK will be extremely useful.
+40% HP is sort of a drop in the bucket compared to the union buffs. The actual increase likely won't be 1.4x, but 1.2x or less, whereas damage is probably multiplied. That would take some testing to verify, which I'm too lazy to do since Union events don't really reward optimization.

[Slashley]

Yes, I've noted that using 20% HP Eidolons is barely even an increase to my HP as it seems to increase my HP modifier from 200% to 220%. And my god I'd love to use double Elemental for this fight bloody everyone and their mother in my friendlist has moved to Dullahan, so I'm kinda stuck with Crom's Crotch and Cthugha.

So anyway, by ye gods I hope that we get that Eidolon on Nutaku. It has good stats, and most importantly, I want the Himes that accompany the event.

[Unregistered]

Yea, it's a shame that we can't be sure on whether we'd get the Koihime Musou collab or not. At least Nutaku apparently has the publishing license for the original PC game though, so there's some hope. The other collabs are even dicier.

[Unregistered]

Well, maybe not license, but some kind of distribution deal with MangaGamer.

[sanahtlig]

At least Nutaku apparently has the publishing license for the original PC game though, so there's some hope.
Negative. MangaGamer has the license, and they're simply allowing Nutaku to sell the digital version in their shop. The licensing models for browser games and downloadable game aren't the same.

[Slashley]

Also, another question to the mix: Is the Koihime collab about the game (series) or the DMM browser game (based on the game series)?

I could probably find that out myself if I just bothered to read the wiki or look up the launch date of the Koihime DMM game, but hey. I'm keeping myself in excitement.

[sanahtlig]

Also, another question to the mix: Is the Koihime collab about the game (series) or the DMM browser game (based on the game series)?
DMM cross-promoting its own content seems most likely, given the strong financial incentive to do so.

[Unregistered]

Tough to say. By default, I'd assume these collabs are between the respective DMM games, right? But I'm looking at the wiki for Koihime Musou Eiyuu Retsuden and I can't seem to find some sort of crossover event on that side. They also don't have a convenient chronological listing of events like other wikis do, so that's not making it so easy.

Also, when they announced an upcoming 2nd collab with Koihime Musou at TGS last weekend, Kiyo-P (the dev staff member there) says just 'Koihime Musou' as in the franchise name instead of the specific full DMM game name. And the logo shown on the screen is just Koihime Musou.

And back on Kamihime Project's wiki, I can't read the kanji that makes up the subtitle after Koihime Musou in the event banner :/
None of it says eiyuu retsuden, at least.

The timing of this collab is approximately the one year anniversary of the DMM game. But I don't see any crossover type thing in eiyuu retsuden's respective 1 year annniversary event.

[Aidoru]

If it means anything, Nutaku's Kamihime has had a collaboration/cross event with Dragon Providence. Not sure if DMM had one. Obviously we didn't get any special unique DP unit converted into a Kamihime unit, just a fair amount of gacha tickets.

[MrAir]

+40% HP is sort of a drop in the bucket compared to the union buffs. The actual increase likely won't be 1.4x, but 1.2x or less, whereas damage is probably multiplied. That would take some testing to verify, which I'm too lazy to do since Union events don't really reward optimization.

I believe any increase in HP is good, for union events*.
I just see that reaching the 100+ expert mode, my team in the AAB begin to pour in simply because of a lack of health. That is, the values of treatment are high, but they do not have time to work, i lose my khs til healing is come.

[sanahtlig]

You're not going to be auto-skill soloing battles where the boss is dealing 15k+ damage in a single hit anyway (or at least, not for long). And if you aren't auto-skilling, you're wasting tremendous amounts of time.

[Kureru]

everyone and their mother in my friendlist has moved to Dullahan

Something I found out recently is that non-friend support does actually give the effect. If you're looking at non-friends as well there's usually at least one Echidna or Apoc ^^

[Slashley]

Something I found out recently is that non-friend support does actually give the effect. If you're looking at non-friends as well there's usually at least one Echidna or Apoc ^^What the. I was going to call you out on bullshit, but picking a Crom's Crotch from outside of friendlist actually gave me the HP.

Since when has this been a thing? Or have I been a fool to believe in tooltips to begin with?

[Unregistered]

What the. I was going to call you out on bullshit, but picking a Crom's Crotch from outside of friendlist actually gave me the HP.

Since when has this been a thing? Or have I been a fool to believe in tooltips to begin with?
Wiki says that has been a thing on DMM since March 2017, right after their Rahab/Medusa rematch... that's odd.

[Eunicorn]

That's what I noticed too, when they released the Rahab/Medusa rematch. Before the rematch, they were not working for me.

[Unregistered]

This could mean other bugfixes and adjustments, like debuff caps and debuff overwriting, might have been implemented as well... hmm.

[Slashley]

This could mean other bugfixes and adjustments, like debuff caps and debuff overwriting, might have been implemented as well... hmm.Uh oh, you bring a good point.

People who have Sol and Jormund, please test -70% on Disasters or something once the event ends. Or tomorrow, when Grails are no longer needed. Thank you~

[Corintis]

I thought that was common knowledge; sorry for all my own allies, but I usually rely on others more than them :p

Regarding HP-Utility for these Union Events, assuming we've completely leveled up our MLB Eidolons and have a couple SSR Defenders in the grid, most SR-Ranked Kami are probably experiencing an HP increase of 3000 (from 2-20% HP Eidolons & SSR Defenders) + 5500 (Union Buff), for a total of 14k HP. If we swapped our current Eidolons for those magical +40% HP ones, we'd be looking at 16k HP.

SSR-Ranked Kami will probably be looking at end totals of 16k & 19k HP, while R-Ranked should be at 13k & 15k HP. So long as you have Andromeda + 1 Healer, Autorunning up to Lv130 Expert is quite feasible.

[AgentFakku]

I prolly won't make it for individual
6847
Union is almost done
6848

[AutoCrimson]

4.5kk PP on one acc, 4.4kk PP on second... overall union PP 25kk... guess i wont make it to the mlb weapon

[AgentFakku]

Do we get Lust

I like Lilim but need da whole package if u knew wut I mean

[Kitty]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWnra5T7dQk

finally recorded my lilim battle..

[MrAir]

That was hard...
6864
now I need to find active union, enough of this, I do not want to do the same thing at the next event

[Pareidolia]

My Union did it within 3 days, I had Individual PP on day 2, that you went through is absolute degeneracy

[Slashley]

6876I guess something like this will do.

Union's interest really waned at the end, didn't even have full Grails on last day until 14h after reset.

[Celaien]

I really need to find a better union ... only me and two or three more were connected, and it was more or less of my own lvl osea we had little damage and we could not make higher bosses once we get stuck ... , almost always between Lilim Ultimate lvl 35-40 ..., almost never anyone in the burst hours and therefore we finished ...

6877

[bigblackcock]

this union event was better than i've thought, at first i wanted to practice a little and save some seeds for jack o latern event, but it seems like i actually got more seeds XD
started with 185 seeds and ended with 279, also have 43 energy leaf so i guess i have nore than enough for jack :D
also got the new pride weapon to level 125, but just level 2 skill 'cause i'm saving up my gems for jack o latern event.
SR hammer at level 85 and level 20 skill level
the other SR weapons got from level 60+ to 85 as well (3 bows from raid boss and the sword from garuda event)
the axe from quetzalcoatl event went up from 104 to 125
got 2 dark weapon level a little up and saving about 13 SR weapon materials for jack event.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/314410890281877505/364969764797284352/lustunionevent.png

[AgentFakku]

tired, busy, and burnt out
6878
Union finished a day ago

Didn't finish individual

first time, I max out the event weapon up to 3 stars - didn't expect it to be Union Raid Event

was close to getting Lilim max out but I was really busy and most union folks were busy so we had raid bosses run outta time

[Kitty]

https://i.imgur.com/vzkP1S6.png

event went nice, was fun to play together with union members and friends!
though considering i have one of the best fire team/grid in my union.. i didn't do that well for my team...lol, wanted to be the one that helped everyone but i barely played in any burst time cause i was either too busy? or unmotivated or.... just depressed XD
not sure how much seeds i started with, probably around 100, maybe a little more or less but now have 210 seeds and 36 energy leaf.. as mr noob said, we're more than prepared for jack o lantern!! :D
also with this event i was able to get my wind grid from 38% to 55% (then found odin, her weapon is assault so can upgrade skill level and make grid higher from that too)

i hope everyone made nice progress in the event... :o

[AutoCrimson]

1st
6887

2nd
6888


wasnt able to play for about 2 days, so didnt cross the 6kk mark, but considering my teams, okay job, i think

[Corintis]

Our Union immediately slacked off the last three days after we met our requirements, so now we're all rested up and ready for Mastema! :cool:

6889

[phuonglop12a2]

I get MLB Weapon in this event, but cannot MLB Eidolons because only 4 - 5 members online and different about time zone, but i'm still satisfied with this result, i don't really need this Eidolons.

[Unregistered]

I really need to find a better union ... only me and two or three more were connected, and it was more or less of my own lvl osea we had little damage and we could not make higher bosses once we get stuck ... , almost always between Lilim Ultimate lvl 35-40 ..., almost never anyone in the burst hours and therefore we finished ...

6877

It's kinda funny that you are blaming your union when you only got 760k PP.

Like, seriously, 1 Expert Lilim was 20k PP. You got less than 100k PP/day, you slacked off, that's all.

Sure, your union kind of sucks, but you're clearly not better. You got roughly 1/20th of your total union PP, when there are 25 members in your union...

[Unregistered]

Got about 3.1 million out of my union's ~70 million pp. Vast majority of the work got done before my first login of each day, so I had to piece together my pp from higher level experts :P
At least I'm strong enough to do so, so it worked out quite well in the end anyway.