[Event 28] Crucible of Combat vs The Demon Envy (Union Event)

[Kitty]

https://cf.g.kamihimeproject.dmmgames.com/front/images/background/32/chara_l_32.png
Well, this is a difficult one for sure, as we'll have two events at the same time. Both the 2* week long Koihime, and after a week into that event, the dark union event will start.

Anywho... Nutaku shouldn't have any reason to change the schedule of when the dark union would be, so it's almost guaranteed to be during the Koihime event..then followed by Jack Frost.

I'll try to explain the enemies in a summary, and... make out what it means since the wiki's translation is pretty bad, but it seems that this demon is kind of similar to Typhon in the way that she removes debuffs.

Lilim Invidia - both standard and expert have buffs and debuffs, and deal overall damage to allies. Keep your defenses up, (hopefully) you have either Belobog, Sol or Vivian, as with the overdrive comes a team defense debuff. ATK down is also needed, as she increases her own. That's pretty much all there is to it.

Demon Envy - Now it's a tricky one for sure, and sounds incredibly annoying but.. I guess it'll be kind of similar to how Lust was, in the case that we won't have debuffs, and a lot of us managed it alright, though that's because fire teams can be somewhat OP... Anyways, Envy cures herself of ALL debuffs on a raging overdrive, so bringing your strongest debuffs as ex ability may be a waste, as many can join the battle at once and trigger her overdrive to the point where not a single debuff is on her when you need it most. Her normal overdrive increases her ATK power, so again, very similar to Typhon...

Useful Formation/Team/Debuffs(etc)

Well, I know a LOT of you won't actually be using your light teams, as light is probably the least focused on element if you aren't lucky enough to have Sol. I will use my light team though.

Some useful Kami for the Ultimate Demon would be:

Raphael
Sol - Chaos magic ability, can cure Envy's ATK buff.
Dagon
Satan

as for the other 3, they all have the same ability, a debuff that doesn't actually stay, so it can not be removed by her ability. It will just remove her charging orb, simple as that. It can be VERY useful in solo battles, and just one of the debuffs you can actually use.

and of course, any defense, healers are needed, so wind/thunder teams may not be ideal if you're not planning on using Light, unless you have a very high offensive team and just plan on going hard.

---

Rewards:

Same as usual, the target is 2.5M individual PP, 55M Union PP and 350 ultimate kills.
You will be able to receive Lilim Invidia, the dark axe(that grants rampage after burst)
the two SR's will be defender, so not really interesting...
premium tickets, jewels, etc.

---

Good luck everyone when the event comes around. Thought I may as well post it now, since Koihime is coming very soon and I've already posted about it.

[Slashley]

... oh dear. Longevity is important in Union event fights, and that means using a Light team for the damage reduction. And my Light team is completely pits. Well, I guess I have Belebog... that's... something? I guess?

There's one lunatic who runs Light main in my Union, I hope he'll have lots of time to play in this event. Would certainly like that Dragon Eye Shard from 300 Ults, not sure can I carry there by myself considering.

[bigblackcock]

so she can cure heself with her raging overdrive? hmm...at least it's not as annoying as typhon random cure.
it's true that more players can triger her overdrive, but they also can do their debuffs after she cured herself.
black propaganda will be a must and skills like satan, cthulhu etc to reduce charging orb also be nice (though it'll help only to the caster)

[Pareidolia]

I think I'll just do the 350 Ultimates and after proceed with Expert only since I'm low on seeds from Jack 'O Lantern

[Slashley]

so she can cure heself with her raging overdrive? hmm...at least it's not as annoying as typhon random cure.
it's true that more players can triger her overdrive, but they also can do their debuffs after she cured herself.
black propaganda will be a must and skills like satan, cthulhu etc to reduce charging orb also be nice (though it'll help only to the caster)Those things would mean people actually doing Union events on manual rather than auto-skill...

[bigblackcock]

Those things would mean people actually doing Union events on manual rather than auto-skill...

hopefully, maybe some players will still ignore it and keep auto-battle her XD
not sure if to use my dark team as i have satan to reduce her charging orb or maybe my water team as i just got cthulhu recently...
either way my water grid is kinda low so i should start to work on it for now

[AgentFakku]

oh shit, I can actually use Nebiros zombie spell thingy on her

Yes!

[VeryVoodoo]

oh shit, I can actually use Nebiros zombie spell thingy on her

Yes!

But the zombie ability wouldn't affect her in any way. She doesn't actually heal herself. She removes all debuffs she's afflicted with. I think you may have misread/mistranslated something?

[Kitty]

I hope you guys are ready, cause this event is probably coming tomorrow or the next day.

[Slashley]

They usually announce events ahead of time. Plus the Koihime characters are boosted until the end of the month.

I see it more likely that Envy comes on Thursday.

[Infinity]

Union Name:Infinity
IGN:ben
ID:4660469
Rank: 80
*No. of Members: 22/30
*Burst Times: 12:00-13:00 19:00-20:00
Union Rank 5

If you still haven't joined a union yet, we still have spaces left for event.

[OtherGuy02]

They usually announce events ahead of time. Plus the Koihime characters are boosted until the end of the month.

I see it more likely that Envy comes on Thursday.

With there being that unusual 2 hour maintenance sunday night/monday morning I can see the event probably going live after reset tonight, that way it keeps both that event and the cross-over event both on a "7 days remaining" cycle when it activates so that they can finish them at the same time, making the switch into the Jack Frost event cleaner.

[VeryVoodoo]

With there being that unusual 2 hour maintenance sunday night/monday morning I can see the event probably going live after reset tonight, that way it keeps both that event and the cross-over event both on a "7 days remaining" cycle when it activates so that they can finish them at the same time, making the switch into the Jack Frost event cleaner.
Pretty sure an Union event would require them to do some sort of maintenance beforehand, if only to make changes to the union system to prevent kicking/leaving at the very least. I also doubt they'll just randomly slap it in after a daily reset, without even a few hours notice beforehand.

But yea, they've most likely already added all the assets for the next events into the game, though it's still a toss-up as to when they'll actually start this next one. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[bigblackcock]

i think the reason they made this even 2 weeks instead of 4 weeks is actually because they don't want to hold them on the same time.
so they most likely finish koihime event and only then start the union 1.

[Slashley]

i think the reason they made this even 2 weeks instead of 4 weeks is actually because they don't want to hold them on the same time.
so they most likely finish koihime event and only then start the union 1.The only problem with this theory is that Koihime character gacha boost ends in a couple of days. If there's no new characters to replace the boost with, why end it?

[Kitty]

The only problem with this theory is that Koihime character gacha boost ends in a couple of days. If there's no new characters to replace the boost with, why end it?

they could wait til the end of koihime to post envy, if they did they'll likely add uriel and snow raphael after the koihime gacha ends cause we'd get them in garuda/typhon rematch which we had much earlier than scheduled in dmm...

[bigblackcock]

The only problem with this theory is that Koihime character gacha boost ends in a couple of days. If there's no new characters to replace the boost with, why end it?
Don't know about boost, but karin and sun quan will be in gacha till december 10th, after koihime ends.
After it? Maybe light satan, hermod and perun?
Maybe they'll add uriel and water rephael as we already had garuda/typhon rematch before so i doubt they'll do a 2nd reprint that fast

[Slashley]

Don't know about boost, but karin and sun quan will be in gacha till december 10th, after koihime ends.--※Available in Gacha until 20:00 12/5 [PST]
・New Characters Boosted Gacha (Until 20:00 11/30[PST]

Water Raphael and/or Dark Amaterasu would be a possibility, true.
Uriel is part of x-mas, so not that one.

[bigblackcock]

※Available in Gacha until 20:00 12/5 [PST]
・New Characters Boosted Gacha (Until 20:00 11/30[PST]

Water Raphael and/or Dark Amaterasu would be a possibility, true.
Uriel is part of x-mas, so not that one.
Check the last news, they fixed the names of the koihime characters and below that you can see that they changed it from 12/5 to 12/10

[Slashley]

Yes, but that's only availability, not the boost.

[Noremorse]

Actually The boost gacha is also extended: try clicking on it to see for yourself.

[Noremorse]

Nope, you're right, I suck

[VeryVoodoo]

Well I mean in-game it still says they're available only until Dec. 5th, even though the maintenance patch notes say extended to 10th. It's possible the boost got extended too, and they just forgot to mention it. It's Nutaku after all. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[bigblackcock]

well, it's confirmed now, this event will start in 48H
and 2 more souls are available, though i'll be able to get only 1 of them 'cause i bought morgan, but whatever XD

[Stway]

Damn, I was hoping Hercules would come with this event. Though I guess it's about time these souls got added.

[Slashley]

Damn, I was hoping Hercules would come with this event. Though I guess it's about time these souls got added.Uh? Yukimura and Masamune are coming on schedule. There's not really a "about time" about it.

I guess we're not getting Hercules until Hercules Relic Weapons get added in June, heh.

[Stway]

Uh? Yukimura and Masamune are coming on schedule. There's not really a "about time" about it.

I guess we're not getting Hercules until Hercules Relic Weapons get added in June, heh.

Ah, I didn't mean it like that lol. Just that we're finally getting the final soul set of the 3.

June.. pls no

[Slashley]

I... just had a look at the upcoming events.

Union, Advent, Raid, Raid, Union, Advent, Union, Raid, Union, Raid, Union, Raid, Advent, Raid.
11/14 upcoming events spend your Seeds. It might be less since originally there was three more Advent reprints in there, but Nutaku already did those. Not sure what they could replace them with, second Ixion reprint...? Unlikely...

Still, might want to pace yourself for Envy.

[Slashley]

Envy is up.

Whenever you do Lilim, you get sent to fucking Raid Boss list. This making farming grails a complete pain in the fucking ass.

No sight of Accessory Quests.

[Kitty]

â– Guerilla Quest Renewalâ– 
----------
â—†Gem Quest (Standard/Expert)
　　
　　Mon.　|　12:00～12:30　|　19:00～19:30 　|　-
　　Tue.　 |　12:30～13:00　|　19:30～20:00　|　-
　　Wes.　|　18:00～18:30　|　22:30～23:00 　|　-
　　Thu.　 |　19:00～19:30　|　23:00～23:30　|　-
　　Fri.　 |　19:30～20:00　|　23:30～00:00　|　-
　　Sat.　 |　12:00～12:30　|　18:00～18:30　|　22:00ï ½ž22:30
　　Sun.　 |　12:30～13:00　|　19:00～19:30　|　23:00ï ½ž23:30
â—†Weapon Enhancement Quest (Standard/Expert)
　　Everyday　|　12:00～13:00　|　19:00～2 0:00　|　22:00～23:00
â—†Eidolon Enhancement Quest (Standard/Expert)
　　Everyday　|　12:00～13:00　|　19:00～2 0:00　|　22:00～23:00
----------

[Slashley]

There's a bug with Yukimura - on auto-skill, whenever she tries to use her second skill, it instead moves on to auto-attacks.

So auto-skill with Yukimura is 1-2 Skills from Yukimura -> auto-mode. As a work-around, you'll need to use her first skill manually, then her second skill, then go to auto-skill.
EDIT: Oh, you can't use the second skill on party members unless they have over 10 Burst, I guess? Yeah, have fun doing debuffs manually.

[WhatIconceal]

There's a bug with Yukimura - on auto-skill, whenever she tries to use her second skill, it instead moves on to auto-attacks.

So auto-skill with Yukimura is 1-2 Skills from Yukimura -> auto-mode. As a work-around, you'll need to use her first skill manually, then her second skill, then go to auto-skill.
EDIT: Oh, you can't use the second skill on party members unless they have over 10 Burst, I guess? Yeah, have fun doing debuffs manually.

seems like other unit have to take damage first to use the skill

[VeryVoodoo]

So turns out boss doesn't actually cure itself of debuffs, but instead removes buffs from your party members?

[bigblackcock]

So turns out boss doesn't actually cure itself of debuffs, but instead removes buffs from your party members?

don't know about ultimate, but expert sure cure self debuffs.

[Laventale]

don't know about ultimate, but expert sure cure self debuffs.

I haven't seen a single Expert boss clean itself from debuffs, tbh.

[bigblackcock]

I haven't seen a single Expert boss clean itself from debuffs, tbh.

according to jap wiki-
expert-
normal overdrive- attack all
raging overdrive- no damage, clear all debuff from self
Ultimate-
normal overdrive- attack a single target+ attack buff to self
raging overdrive- attack all+buff erase (when i joined a battle it erased only 1 debuff lol)+ apply and 3 stage rate up
------

my battle against lilim

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GWmdhrx_X0

[Aidoru]

Just ran a ultimate and it used a attack up on raging overdrive or something and still had many of my debuffs on it. So it might just be 1 debuff removed, unless the amount is random too.

[Slashley]

It cleanses YOUR buffs, and doesn't touch her own debuffs, I believe.

And since buffs are useless to begin with, it doesn't matter one bit.
EDIT: I believe the damage is done first, removal done after. So Joan should work? Haven't tested.

[VeryVoodoo]

according to jap wiki-
expert-
normal overdrive- attack all
raging overdrive- no damage, clear all debuff from self
Ultimate-
normal overdrive- attack a single target+ attack buff to self
raging overdrive- attack all+buff erase (when i joined a battle it erased only 1 debuff lol)+ apply and 3 stage rate up
------


What I'm saying is that you guys translated the JP Wiki wrong. Again I'm pretty sure it's erasing our buffs, not the debuffs on itself. I'm talking about Demon battles. So unless you have a vid that's actually relevant to that, I don't need to watch you struggle against Lilims. :P

Does seem Expert Demons remove self de-buffs on a rage burst, though I swear it seems random as hell currently.

[AznSamsung]

Is the ssr weapon worth it ... my light team is as weak as me...

[Unregistered]

Pride weapons are worth getting.

Expert should have two possible raging overdrives. One is wipe your buffs + remove its own debuffs. The other should be smack one person + remove own debuffs. I've definitely seen expert remove its own debuffs before, so I prefer sticking to forcing normal overdrives instead. Gets complicated when other people are operating on auto :/

Ult should be wiping your buffs with raging overdrive, on top of giving itself a combo attack buff and hitting everybody. Haven't tried Ult yet myself though.

[Slashley]

Supposedly, the damage boost from Grails is Character Attack. I wouldn't wonder.

It's great fun running triple-Fire SSRs with Ryu-Oh and double Fafnir. Sure, Ryu-Oh does only about half damage of the Fire guys, but usually off-element units are like one tenth. Now, if only I could survive worth shit...

[Marigold]

Supposedly, the damage boost from Grails is Character Attack. I wouldn't wonder.

It's great fun running triple-Fire SSRs with Ryu-Oh and double Fafnir. Sure, Ryu-Oh does only about half damage of the Fire guys, but usually off-element units are like one tenth. Now, if only I could survive worth shit...

Wouldn't you get more damage with Fafnir + Ifrit? I haven't toyed around with Sanat's calculator later

[Laventale]

Expert just wipes my fucking board with a 3k AoE damage spell.

It makes me want to kill myself, really.

Very cool event, I wish I could play something else more than the lvl 30 event and lvl 60 Guild battle.

[Unregistered]

If you're in a union with the grails for it, +HP and +Healing are really good. Especially +Healing, which raises healing/regen effectiveness by 1.5% per point. So +100 Healing = +150%. That turns things like Cassiopeia's heal from 1200 to 3000 or Andromeda's from 1600 to 4000. Really nice for soloing as long as you can manage the enemy's meter to only allow normal overdrives to happen.

Unless someone in the union decides to be a jackass and shift grails away from +healing and into some ****ING USELESS GARBAGE LIKE +BURST.

[Laventale]

If you're in a union with the grails for it, +HP and +Healing are really good. Especially +Healing, which raises healing/regen effectiveness by 1.5% per point. So +100 Healing = +150%. That turns things like Cassiopeia's heal from 1200 to 3000 or Andromeda's from 1600 to 4000. Really nice for soloing as long as you can manage the enemy's meter to only allow normal overdrives to happen.

Unless someone in the union decides to be a jackass and shift grails away from +healing and into some ****ING USELESS GARBAGE LIKE +BURST.

Nah, we got our Grail cap (400 per day) already, it's all good.

[Slashley]

Wouldn't you get more damage with Fafnir + Ifrit? I haven't toyed around with Sanat's calculator laterI haven't toyed with it either, but really, there's no chance of that. Since with weapon Assault + Grail buff, I have what, 180% Character Attack? Adding Ifrit isn't going to do much, especially since the Burst modifier for SSRs is weak.

[Marigold]

I haven't toyed with it either, but really, there's no chance of that. Since with weapon Assault + Grail buff, I have what, 180% Character Attack? Adding Ifrit isn't going to do much, especially since the Burst modifier for SSRs is weak.

Even with an overpowered weapon Grid I still get better results combining my 40% Character Attack with 40+% Attribute instead of Echidna's 40% Attribute with another stacked, that's why I asked since I felt it was odd but I see

[sanahtlig]

Even with an overpowered weapon Grid I still get better results combining my 40% Character Attack with 40+% Attribute instead of Echidna's 40% Attribute with another stacked, that's why I asked since I felt it was odd but I see
There's several variables that will affect this, like the ATK of your primary eidolon, level of assault skill, whether you have elemental advantage, and current Grail buffs. For my Water team, I get more damage from running double elemental ATK, but I run with 1x Jorm because the benefit from the added HP and ATK -10% outweighs that. The difference in incoming damage going from -60% to -70% ATK is massive. At -70% ATK you're more or less invincible, unless the enemy buffs its ATK.

[Slashley]

-- The difference in incoming damage going from -60% to -70% ATK is massive. At -70% ATK you're more or less invincible, unless the enemy buffs its ATK.Speaking of which, how exactly does that work?

Since I got Caspiel, I tried to run a Wind team for up to 100% Atk Down, but that plan crumbled partly because of my miserable damage output and partly because... well, it felt like the Atk Down debuff was being countered by the Atk Up buff.

Does it work like (base100%-AtkDown+AtkUp)?

[sanahtlig]

Does it work like (base100%-AtkDown+AtkUp)?
Yes. Obviously boss effects are far more potent than players'.

[J4fusion]

It's a bit late but I've always wanted to ask..... I've seen the many of y'all crossing pass 10 mil even a mention of over a billion. So, how you do it?

[Slashley]

We hit things until they die?

The more active your Union is, the easier it gets since the higher level Demons yield way more PP per BP spent.

[J4fusion]

That's sad for me and my Union knowing we are casuals. On a good and well focused day I can grab 500k per day assuming my team dont interfere in my battles. My limits stops after LV 30 ULT without Elixirs or help.

[Vanadis]

main source of PP is expert, not ult

[J4fusion]

main source of PP is expert, not ult

not true, ULT doubles the amount of EX but then again EX is easier.

[Aidoru]

not true, ULT doubles the amount of EX but then again EX is easier.

Doubles? But cost triple.

[VeryVoodoo]

not true, ULT doubles the amount of EX but then again EX is easier.
When you get to sufficiently high lvl Demons, the PP per BP spent ratio of Experts just becomes better than that of Ultis.
And when you're in an Union that can get to lvl 200-300+ Experts on a daily basis, there's no need to farm ULTs at that point for PP anymore.

[J4fusion]

remember my last few words, people.

[Marigold]

remember my last few words, people.

Eh-em
It surely comes near to double on the early levels but after a few hours it becomes pretty pointless, If you solo an Level 70 Ultimate say you get 125k Experience Points; You wasted I don't know 8 minutes on it and used 3 Seeds.
Then you go and solo a Level 80-90 Expert, you're most likely getting 70-80K But let's stick to your "words" and say you get half of the ones you could've gotten on Ultimate, even then you only spend 1 Seed instead of 3 and took let's say 3 to 5 minutes to complete it in comparison with double the time it would take to do an Ultimate.

Now then It doesn't seem more productive to farm Points from Ultimate, does it?
Don't get crazy about it though, Expert is better than Ultimate around 2.1 times not thrice as you'd think by the Seed usage when you take in mind the time and also the fact that this is only valid after both are level 40'sh +++

[sanahtlig]

High-level Experts are nice because you can just hit auto-battle, come back 15min later when it's dead, and grab your 100k PP. Do that 25x and you've hit your PP quota for the event. Ultimates aren't PP-efficient because the higher-level ones will kill off your group quick on auto-battle. And if you're not auto-battling, you're wasting massive amounts of time.

[Marigold]

Sort of agreed even though high level Experts will destroy your team if you just auto (let's say this happens after level 90) therefore the biggest advantage that Experts have in relation with Ultimates is the fact that even if said Expert is level 126 (as it's currently in my Union for the day) or even higher, if you use your skills wisely you can go a whole battle without getting touch by a raid skill, that dismissing that skills like Amaterasu's will make you potentially take zero damage around 50% of the time.
Saying that the amount of experience that you'll get it's humongous in relation to what most people can solo (regarding Ultimate that is really tough after 100 even if you're there manually doing it of course) and it only takes around 5 minutes.

[J4fusion]

but then again EX is easier.

I mean this part of my words, saying y'all are right. But I'm keeping my goal of 200 ULT. I'll keep in mind to keep doing EX for PP.

[VeryVoodoo]

Sort of agreed even though high level Experts will destroy your team if you just auto (let's say this happens after level 90) therefore the biggest advantage that Experts have in relation with Ultimates is the fact that even if said Expert is level 126 (as it's currently in my Union for the day) or even higher, if you use your skills wisely you can go a whole battle without getting touch by a raid skill
Nah, we're in the lvl 230s currently, and we still just auto on 'em. 2-3 ppl auto'ing on each finishes 'em. Last night we got into the 300s and we were still auto'ing them then too. Basically, it's just a waste of time to sit there and manually burn through millions of hp each time. It's easier to just auto with 1 or 2 other ppl and then you get to do other stuff meanwhile. Or maybe we're all just lazy here. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Marigold]

That's why I stated multiple times "Solo" on the message that that one complements but oh well lol

[VeryVoodoo]

That's why I stated multiple times "Solo" on the message that that one complements but oh well lol

Yea, and we "solo" auto up to the lvl 200s just fine. Your post mentioned they destroy you past lvl 90. So if you're having trouble auto'ing, the solution is to just add more ppl in. Saves you time and effort instead of having to sit there having to manual them. Though I guess ours is the lazy way after all. :>

[Unregistered]

Meanwhile, I can just barely solo up to around 75.. and that's only by doing manual. Auto I get destroyed around 50. The sad part is, I'm around R70 and I can tell I should be able to do more.. really need to work on my shit.

FeelsTerribleMan

[Unregistered]

Meanwhile, I can just barely solo up to around 75.. and that's only by doing manual. Auto I get destroyed around 50. The sad part is, I'm around R70 and I can tell I should be able to do more.. really need to work on my shit.

FeelsTerribleMan

Hmm, you probably already know what I'm about to type up, but hell, I got the urge to ramble on about something in case some lurkers out there are less experienced...

So manually soloing expert is fundamentally composed of:
1. How much healing you have (particularly party-wide) compared against how much you can lower normal overdrive damage. That determines how long you can last; theoretically forever as long as your healing's good enough. +healing is critical here, although that's dependent on the union cooperating. -atk is also crucial as always here.

2. How reliably you can force the demon to do normal overdrives instead of raging; preferably at least 5 turns in between overdrives, as that's the cooldown for the Andromeda line of souls' healing spells. Of course, swap normal and raging around if the raging overdrive is the preferred one to be hit by. But for Envy, you want normal.
Being able to reliably force a mode change (ie normal->raging and raging->stun) in one round of regular attacks is the crucial first step here. This one's basically an issue of your stats and how much -def you're packing.
After that, you'll need either overdrive meter reduction skills (but not a lot of kamihime have those) and/or direct damage skills (plenty of these on the other hand!). You want the direct damage stuff to be able to hit hard enough to force the demon out of stun. Why out of stun? Regular attacking a boss out of stun for them to then take a turn still advances their overdrive meter by one orb. Using abilities to wake up a boss from stun means that a turn hasn't passed yet, so that the overdrive meter doesn't fill yet. Having the option to do either should allow you to decide whether the next overdrive to happen will be normal or raging. Direct damage skills can still be used to help you force the other mode changes, of course. It's about planning head 2-3 turns in advance. Unfortunately, dazzle can really screw with predictions here :/

[Marigold]

Yea, and we "solo" auto up to the lvl 200s just fine. Your post mentioned they destroy you past lvl 90. So if you're having trouble auto'ing, the solution is to just add more ppl in. Saves you time and effort instead of having to sit there having to manual them. Though I guess ours is the lazy way after all. :>

I wasn't referring to me since I didn't disclosed or said "I" I think, those two messages were referring to the average player; they're directed to them to "help" a bit, perhaps? personally I don't auto at all in union/raid events but the last time I was being serious in one and using my main team I recall being able to solo up to Lv 164 Ultimates (In the last event, I've been without my phone during this and my pc is too shitty to even consider raiding here)
I don't think it's the lazy way or something along those lines, I'm just not a multitasking guy myself and I genuinely enjoy killing bosses in this game but I get where you're coming from

[Slashley]

-- that dismissing that skills like Amaterasu's will make you potentially take zero damage around 50% of the time.--... what? Amaterasu? She has +30% Def, which is TERRIBLE. That's basically the same as -15% Atk, with half the uptime. Hell, even the R Hime Perun probably cuts more damage than that with her -25% skill...

... ... not saying that Amaterasu is terrible as a whole, I mean her -20% B and Regen are good (particularly in Union events) but...
Meanwhile, I can just barely solo up to around 75.. and that's only by doing manual. Auto I get destroyed around 50. The sad part is, I'm around R70 and I can tell I should be able to do more.. really need to work on my shit.

FeelsTerribleManWell, it's a good thing that it's a UNION event so you don't need to solo it all then, yes?
Being able to kill high level stuff is a matter of building your numbers high enough, and also about how your team is built. Like people with Sol in this event are in an entirely different position than people without.

[Marigold]

... what? Amaterasu? She has +30% Def, which is TERRIBLE. That's basically the same as -15% Atk, with half the uptime. Hell, even the R Hime Perun probably cuts more damage than that with her -25% skill...

... ... not saying that Amaterasu is terrible as a whole, I mean her -20% B and Regen are good (particularly in Union events) but...

Let me expand further on that since you got the wrong skill there; I didn't meant that skill you said (30% Defense Buff + 400 HP Regen P/T)
Neither I meant her Sniper Shot which is the only reason she's arguably the best after Sol (yes, you don't actually care even so slightly about the Regen or the Blind for that matter when talking about why Amaterasu is so versatile, it all comes down to that B Frame 20% Attack and Defense debuff since it lets you use a Soul that isn't so plain and dull like D'artagnan or free your EX Slot from Sniper Shot, also keeping in mind that you're aiming to hit -40% debuffs on all your teams I think it's pretty clear)
i meant her Blind skill which has a huge landing rate when Fully LB'd (80%+) and it nullifies normal raid attacks at around 50-60% of the times that plus Mordred's Vicissitudes of Fortune means you're guaranteed to at least get the Blind if you don't get the Dizzy in Outrage and since the whole argument was that with good skill control you can go through an entire expert raid, even if over level 100 without getting an Overdrive to the face

I hope that's a little better to digest

I mean, even though your analogy could come as redundant or ignorant considering that the example you give it's an "One Turn Cut" like Joan's you're pretty much saying that Perun has a better defense buff than Andromeda even though it isn't a Defense buff, Is just a cut like Joan's or Gaia's, there's an R Hime with a Defense Buff as bigger as her's or Andromeda's but...





Being able to kill high level stuff is a matter of building your numbers high enough, and also about how your team is built. Like people with Sol in this event are in an entirely different position than people without.
About this, well duh; It's pretty much obvious?
If you have the best Kamihime of it's Element and you're against a raid that's weak to said Element did you expect something else?
Let's say I have Amon [Unleashed] or New Year's Amaterasu when it drops and I'm fighting Saint Nicholas ehm...
Say I have Amaterasu or Summer Sol and I'm Fighting Lilim Pride ehmm...
Say I have Gaia and I'm fighting Mastema... right?

[Slashley]

I see. I don't think that normal attacks are an issue though, not even with Envy who has +Atk and +Combo buffs.

Sure, sometimes a boss will just target a single Hime(/Soul) turn after turn after turn, but Overdrives are what kill you usually.

[Marigold]

And then I quote my previous message

...since the whole argument was that with good skill control you can go through an entire expert raid, even if over level 100 without getting an Overdrive to the face.

If you're referring to Ultimate then yes, it comes pretty much to a 35/65 on what you die from, 35 Being normal Hits.
My Original Message disclosed being about Expert for Union Points though.

[sanahtlig]

Sol's a permanent member of my Water team. Her main use is increasing ATK down from -50% to -70%. That nearly halves damage (again). That's going to reduce damage far more than any of Amaterasu's abilities, and that's before even considering her cleanse and dispel capabilities.

[LeCrestfallen]

the more i hear, the more i think that water is seriously way to overpowered ~~

[Slashley]

the more i hear, the more i think that water is seriously way to overpowered ~~Have you SEEN the average Water SSR? They're absolutely crazy, except Shiva and Ea.

And I don't think Sanahtlig even had water SSRs. Sol + Water SRs, I believe. Water has great SR Himes, like Triton and Belphegor. And their +20% HP Eidolon having -10% Atk debuff is just... wow.

[LeCrestfallen]

and yet i still prefer dark and fire personally. Just a subjective feeling though.

[Slashley]

In a gacha game, you typically use what you get. You can slightly manipulate what you can get by saving up Jewels, but ultimately, RNG gives you what it feels like giving you.

[LeCrestfallen]

True, True. Will do the same thing you did with Karin on New year, been saving up for dark ama for ages, lets see wether RNGesus and Santa Satan will be with me, or against me.

[Slashley]

Including or not including P2W escapades? :rolleyes:

In more important matters:
7942
I didn't know this was possible... huh.

[Unregistered]

+def buffs aren't so bad. They're functionally more like a weaker but longer duration/shorter cooldown damage cuts, but more importantly, stack multiplicatively with damage cuts and reflects. They're usually not a major selling point for a kamihime, but they're still something to list in a particular kamihime's pros. -atk, damage cuts, reflects, and +def stacking all together reduce damage down to absurd levels.

[LeCrestfallen]

Including or not including P2W escapades? :rolleyes:

In more important matters:
7942
I didn't know this was possible... huh.
With p2w, but to a limited amount. Don't think thati will go above 150 total rolls (including jewels and all tickets)

[sanahtlig]

And I don't think Sanahtlig even had water SSRs. Sol + Water SRs, I believe. Water has great SR Himes, like Triton and Belphegor. And their +20% HP Eidolon having -10% Atk debuff is just... wow.
I'm currently running Mordred (EX: Sniper Shot), Poseidon (last SSR kamihime ticket), Gabriel, Shiva, Sol. Poseidon and Triton are somewhat interchangeable. Shiva doesn't help much in an auto-attack setup. The debuffs and Sol are what carry this group in most content. The synergy of Sol and Jorm without an ATK debuff cap is the key dynamic in my group. Water is capable of one of the tankiest builds in the game (Cthulhu, SSR Nike, Snow Raphael, Sol), which is what I'll be building towards for when the ATK debuff cap hits. Run Andromeda (EX: Black Propaganda) with that and you'll have an auto-attack build that should be as close to unkillable as it gets.

[Naes]

does lillim have a chance of dropping her eidolon and weapon?, its probably the only chance of maxxing anything with my guild right now.
i sorta submissively joined a guild that recruited me. :V, been auto-ing demon.
or should i keep from lbing the eidolon for future trade-ins that ive heard about that i can trade in eidolons for a single one i missed.

[Stway]

does lillim have a chance of dropping her eidolon and weapon?, its probably the only chance of maxxing anything with my guild right now.
i sorta submissively joined a guild that recruited me. :V, been auto-ing demon.
or should i keep from lbing the eidolon for future trade-ins that ive heard about that i can trade in eidolons for a single one i missed.

I don't think Crucibles have a chance of dropping the event weapon or eidolon (neither Lilim or Demon). I could be wrong but I've never saw it happen or heard of it happening. Lilims as eidolons are rather useless, so if they don't restrict turning in Lilims.. I'd do it. Though I already wasted mine before I thought of doing that lol.

[Naes]

Lilims as eidolons are rather useless, so if they don't restrict turning in Lilims.. I'd do it..

i also dont yet know how to do that, there are a few ssr's that im not gonna max and dont need that are just sitting there, but i'd feel bad selling or merging them.
hope i can max the axe though, just cuz.

[Slashley]

You can merge Eidolons as you wish, all you lose is Gems (and you gain in Eidolon slots in return). The Eidolon Store turn in gives double points for 1-star, triple for 2-star, etc.

[Marigold]

Lilims as eidolons are rather useless, so if they don't restrict turning in Lilims.. I'd do it. Though I already wasted mine before I thought of doing that lol.



In paper you can say this and it would be fine if you're referring to them as main Eidolons because they're utter garbage there.
But if you use one as filler Eidolon in the other spots **with an attribute the same as your Kamihime party** you get an extra boost for them being that attribute that is around 650 Attack if your party has over 40000 total Attack, making them potentially 1600 Attack + 600+.
Then again this is just temporary since you're most likely not going to get a full mono attribute MLB'd SSR Eidolon grid, but as soon as you get one with better stats than the Lilims of course you're throwing them away ;)

**Recap:
They're temporal garbage filler but not completely useless**

[Naes]

when does it come out? the eido shoppo,
and yea the weapon wont get to 100 either, shieet. a dark ssr LB woulda been nice.

[LeCrestfallen]

In paper you can say this and it would be fine if you're referring to them as main Eidolons because they're utter garbage there.
But if you use one as filler Eidolon in the other spots **with an attribute the same as your Kamihime party** you get an extra boost for them being that attribute that is around 650 Attack if your party has over 40000 total Attack, making them potentially 1600 Attack + 600+.
Then again this is just temporary since you're most likely not going to get a full mono attribute MLB'd SSR Eidolon grid, but as soon as you get one with better stats than the Lilims of course you're throwing them away ;)

**Recap:
They're temporal garbage filler but not completely useless**

Wasn't the bonus like 5% for the same element? 650 would imply the bonus is bigger than i thought at 40k attackpower.

[Marigold]

I thought the same but it is what it gives me in my 44k Wind Team, I felt it odd at first but you can try it and tell me if it's the same for you? Perhaps it's a visual bug and I only get the 5% in battle

[Slashley]

Wasn't the bonus like 5% for the same element? 650 would imply the bonus is bigger than i thought at 40k attackpower.I have no idea what Neverbloom is talking about, but Fire Eidolons have 10% stat boost for Fire Kamihime (and for some reason my Soul is gaining 20% extra, is that a feature?). So a Fire Eidolon with 500 HP 2000 Atk one is actually 550 HP and 2200 Atk for each Fire Hime and the usual 500 HP 2000 Atk for other elements. You can see this by playing around in the Edit screen, write down somebody's HP or Atk, unequip an Eidolon of same element, compare stats. Your total attack doesn't come into play in any shape or form, this is applies separately for each equipped Eidolon.

As such, Lilims with their 396 HP and 1596 Atk are actually 435 HP and 1755 Atk for their respective elements. Which is still utterly miserable. Typhon for example is 564 HP and 1752 Atk BEFORE the 10% boost.

The primary usage of Lilims is meeting the quota of the long-time-upcoming 50% Elemental Eidolons, which require you to have 5 Eidolons of the same Element for you to get the 50% - if you have less, you're better off with the 45% ones (out of which we only have Jack so far). When the time comes, I guess we'll need to make the calculations on is using sub-par on-element Eidolons worth that 5% Elemental or not. You see, Typhon - even with the boost - just doesn't compare to the good Eidolons such as Sphinx or Mii. It probably will be worth it though, since 5% is a big deal for anyone who doesn't have reliable access to P2W Eidolons.

[LeCrestfallen]

I thought the same but it is what it gives me in my 44k Wind Team, I felt it odd at first but you can try it and tell me if it's the same for you? Perhaps it's a visual bug and I only get the 5% in battle

small edit for clarification: Dark team with Dark Lilim. Other dark eidelons in the team (should they matter in any way) are Jack and dullahan.
Did a Quick test, comparrison Lilim 1596 to Yatagarasu 1773 difference of 177
With Lilim to yatagarasu: on home page 42276 to 42399 : Difference +123 for yata
Mordred: 37539 - 37557 = +18
Satan: 37774 - 37792 = +18
Ren: 36274 - 36292 = +18
Belze: 35074 - 35092 = +18

Added Sol since she is neither dark nor fire: Lilim 35793 - Yata 35970 = 177

Will stick with Yata, the benefit is even with the bonus higher.

edit: got a little mistake at the top, its fixed now.

last edit: Yep Lilim gets +10% to the stat boosts. Rounded down. its exactly the 18 difference.

[Slashley]

Oh, yeah, a couple of posts I've forgotten to reply to:
+def buffs aren't so bad. They're functionally more like a weaker but longer duration/shorter cooldown damage cuts, but more importantly, stack multiplicatively with damage cuts and reflects.--... do they? Because I honestly can't even tell the difference when they're up.
Since it depends strongly on how it is calculated. After or during -Atk. As in, does Sanahtlig's completely-fair-and-I'm-not-jealous-at-all -70% Atk, does he become immune if he got +60% Def or not?

With numbers:
30% Def buff against 1000 damage with -0% Atk = 850 damage taken (-150, 15% reduction)
If it is after -Atk debuffs:
30% Def buff against 1000 damage with -40% Atk = 600 damage before Def cut = 510 damage taken (-90, 9% reduction)
30% Def buff against 1000 damage with -70% Atk = 300 damage before Def cut = 255 damage taken (-45 damage, 4.5% reduction)
If it actually stacks with -Atk:
30% Def buff against 1000 damage with -40% Atk = 450 damage taken (-150, 15% reduction)

Now, I could probably just look this up from JP wiki, but I'm honestly a lazy little cunt who likes it when people just tell me. I just don't see Def
buffs being useful at all - even 30% is hard to get, it doesn't help all that much (even though every little bit helps) and it doesn't even have 100% uptime.
when does it come out? the eido shoppo,--The encyclopedia in Sanahtlig's toolbox (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PhfOAQk6EyK5l33ux_C4T-cexVIQp6D-_Hbd-OO1OmQ/edit#gid=1090858479) gives you a quick peek on all the upcoming patch notes etc. It's July 2018ish.

[Unregistered]

I... don't think you know where defense goes?

So the formula for damage against you as given on the wiki is currently:
{Enemy_Attack * (1 + atk_buff - atk_debuff) * 'weak point correction' * (1 - damage_cut_total)} / {10 * (1 + defense_bonus) * (1 + def_buff - def_debuff + assist)}

'weak point correction' = element resistance/weakness. Specifically, it's the 1.45x if you're weak, 0.75x if you're resistant.
The way I worded things in the previous post was a bit off. Reflects actually stack with damage cuts additively, hence 'damage_cut_total. Cao Cao's page on the wiki specifically cites her reflect stacking with Raikou's damage cut for a total of 70% damage reduction. Element resistance buffs apparently also get added to damage_cut_total.
defense_bonus = what your soul's been picking up from mastering certain lines
I'm not sure what the 10 is doing there, unless the internal enemy attack values really are just that much bigger than what we players see in game play. For our purposes, we can ignore the 10.

So basically, when you're going from no defense buffs/debuffs to +30%, you're dividing damage by 1.3 instead of 1. That's functionally the same as multiplying damage by 77%. 30% is also really freaking big as party-wide defense buffs go. Andromeda's def buff for another example is 20%; that'd reduce damage to 1/1.2 = 83.3%.

An example to put it all together...

Let x = enemy attack/base damage
You land -50% atk debuff (or more, but let's say we're in the world where the 50% debuff cap is in place). Enemy has no atk buff.
Damage is now 0.5x
Your element is strong against the enemy; that's another 75% multiplier, bringing damage to 0.375x
Your main eidolon has 10% resist against the enemy's element (Jack Frost versus Fire for example). As far as I understand, this actually goes to damage_cut_total. Let's add a 30% damage cut to that (Snow Raphael for example); damage_cut_total comes out to 40%. 0.375x * 0.6 = 0.225x
I'll ignore how much +defense your soul has to simplify things; also it's not like your kamihime benefit from that.
Let's say you throw on a +20% A-frame def buff (from Andromeda) and a +12% B-frame def bufff (from... Gabriel). That adds up to 32% for defense buffs. But, Snow Raphael and Gabriel have +defense assists. I don't know how large those are. I'm assuming 5% each, as the +attack assists I've seen are listed as 5%. So for those two, their defense buff total comes out to 37%
0.225x / 1.32 = 0.17x
0.225x / 1.37 = 0.164x
So damage has been reduced to just a bit over 1/6th of what it originally was. For Snow Raphael and Gabriel, just under 1/6th. And in practice, your soul probably has built up some +defense from at least the Joan of Arc line by now.

...looking back on damage cut stacking, I think Cupid suddenly just jumped up a notch here. If you throw Cupid into the example above, you can add on her 30% fire resistance buff (ok, at this rate we're basically running something like Andromeda/Ryu-Oh/Snow Raphael/Gabriel/Cupid for demonstration purposes). Damage_cut_total would change from 40% to 70%.
0.375x * 0.3 = 0.1125x
Keep the same def buffs; 0.1125x / 1.32 = 0.085. That's in between 1/11th and 1/12th the original damage.
Not that you'd actually run such a party (unless that's what you have with nothing better), but the example gets the process across I hope.

[Slashley]

-- but the example gets the process across I hope.Nope. That was a lot of thorough text, but it didn't get the point across. You put in kinds of resistances in there to over complicate things, and I just can't be arsed to think it through right now.

Does +Def buff stack directly with -Atk debuffs or not? Because as long as -50% Atk and +100% Def together don't mean 100% damage reduction, it severely makes Def buffs weaker.

[LeCrestfallen]

Seperate entrys. First part is boss damage, including boss buffs/debuffs. Thats the base damage that the boss inflicts per hit.
This gets changed in the second entry through your buffs/debuffs.

-50%attack on boss and +50%def on you does not make 100% damage reduction.

To take the example above. 1000 damage hit, with -70%atk on boss, and +60def on yourself would be (correct me if i made a mistake)
(1000*(1-0.70)) / (1+0.60)
300 / 1.6 = 187.5
the 60% def buff should be around 37,5% reduction ~~ i am in the same boat, i am tired as hell, should go to sleep.

[Unregistered]

They stack.

The difference is, when you say stack, you're probably thinking 'additively'. When I say yes, I mean 'multiplicatively'.

[Unregistered]

Seperate entrys. First part is boss damage, including boss buffs/debuffs. Thats the base damage that the boss inflicts per hit.
This gets changed in the second entry through your buffs/debuffs.

-50%attack on boss and +50%def on you does not make 100% damage reduction.

To take the example above. 1000 damage hit, with -70%atk on boss, and +60def on yourself would be (correct me if i made a mistake)
(1000*(1-0.70)) / (1+0.60)
300 / 1.6 = 187.5
the 60% def buff should be around 37,5% reduction ~~ i am in the same boat, i am tired as hell, should go to sleep.

You are correct.

[Slashley]

-50%attack on boss and +50%def on you does not make 100% damage reduction.They never would, since at best that's -75% damage reduction. You need twice as many % for buffs as you need for debuffs. 100% to halve damage on +Def, 50% to halve damage on -Atk.

That's just one of the reasons why buffs are so bad in Kamihime.
They stack.

The difference is, when you say stack, you're probably thinking 'additively'. When I say yes, I mean 'multiplicatively'.Thank you.

[Unregistered]

Well, attack buffs are pretty lousy because they're usually adding to assault and thus their relative impact shrinks the more developed you are.
Defense related buffs (be it defense buffs, damage cuts, reflects, or element tolerance buffs) tend to maintain their relative impact. They're held back by their uptime being defined in turns. But they do come in handy for mitigating giant spikes in damage.
It's just that it's easy to dismiss them and be fine with just atk down + element advantage because it's not too often that we actually see GIGANTIC instances of damage in the current state of the game.

[Slashley]

-- Defense related buffs (be it -- damage cuts, reflects, or element tolerance buffs) tend to maintain their relative impact. --These are very useful, yes. They're effectively the same thing though, so they stack properly. Which adds to their value.

I find it difficult to imagine +Def buff being useful, though. Basically you'd need to double the gains from them across the board, plus scatter the different buffs to A and B. Like Andromeda and Amaterasu stacking to 40%+60% thus halving damage taken.

[Unregistered]

You seem to be approaching these things as a either/or proposition. You can have both/all of them together. They all stack.

[sanahtlig]

Why bother with DEF up when stacking ATK down mitigates damage far more effectively? Jorm's -10% ATK debuff mitigates more damage for me than a DEF buff of 30% would for you. It also lasts longer.

[Slashley]

But not properly. If you've already slapped the usual amount of -Atk on the enemy, you don't get as much gains from +Def.

Also, you can't bring 50 Hime into one fight. You need to pick your abilities, and that means that you effectively avoid +Def whenever you can - so that you can actually useful abilities, such as damage cuts or -Atk debuffs. Only in rare cases like Amaterasu do find yourself with a +Def ability... and even then, it doesn't really do much for you.

[Unregistered]

Why bother with DEF up when stacking ATK down mitigates damage far more effectively? Jorm's -10% ATK debuff mitigates more damage for me than a DEF buff of 30% would for you. It also lasts longer.

Yea, that -10% atk down is better than a def buff, when you're picking one or the other, but not both.
How often do you have to pick between the two, versus how often you can have both?
Why are you guys framing these mechanics as in competition with each other?

[Unregistered]

Ok, given what I know of your understanding of the damage formula, the notable distinction you make between damage cuts and defense buffs doesn't really make much sense to me.
If you're not setting up to stack damage cuts, then in practice, a +30% def buff basically is a 23% damage cut, except longer duration. That's not so significantly worse than the higher end damage cuts to the point that justifies 'damage cuts are useful, but defense buffs are garbage'. There isn't exactly a big gap between the two until you deliberately start stacking up damage cut/reflect/element tolerance.

[sanahtlig]

Yea, that -10% atk down is better than a def buff, when you're picking one or the other, but not both.
How often do you have to pick between the two, versus how often you can have both?
Why are you guys framing these mechanics as in competition with each other?
Because a difficult solo encounter requires a hefty array of skills, and bringing one skill means not bringing something else. Bring Amaterasu, and you probably aren't bringing Sol. Bring Andromeda, and you don't have Joan. Reaching debuff caps (once implemented) and having overdrive gauge extension on hand means you typically have a grand total of 6 skill slots that are taken. And we haven't even talked about healing and utility skills like cleanse and dispel yet, nor the practical difficulty of assembling a group (all or mostly the same element) with the right combination of those core 6 skills.

[Unregistered]

Right, and the full answer to that will depend on the encounter combined with the hand one is given.

I'm not saying that defense buffs are the headline reason to go with a particular kamihime. I'm saying that they're something that'd be listed in a kamihime's pros instead of cons. The way Slashley talks about them makes them seem like a fucking negative or at best a neutral.

[sanahtlig]

Since it depends strongly on how it is calculated. After or during -Atk. As in, does Sanahtlig's completely-fair-and-I'm-not-jealous-at-all -70% Atk, does he become immune if he got +60% Def or not?
The short answer is 'no'. You can see exactly how these parameters interact in the Temporary Effects Calculator (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PhfOAQk6EyK5l33ux_C4T-cexVIQp6D-_Hbd-OO1OmQ/edit#gid=1624142911) of my Toolbox, 'Damage received' section. I prefer 'Hits til Death' as a readout of comparative effectiveness.

[Marigold]

This is straight up dumb
It's so easy yet you're expanding too much on a simple comparison

A defense buff equals a Regen buff (You get little quantities of it on 3 turns)
A damage cut equals a Heal (You get it all right away when you need it)

It's obviously better to have a Healer than having a Regen enabler so is obviously better having a Damage Cut skill than having a Defense Buffer
Especially if you as almost everyone struggle with overdrives since you use your skill there where it prioritizes it instead of having it split in 3 turns, when building a team you don't look at all on Defense Buffers. The priorities are Debuffs > Healing > Damage > Damage Cut / Rage meter throttle.
That said we can all come to the conclusion that if a Kamihime has a Defense buff it's an okay addition to your team but you aren't out there looking for it as you are looking for -40/40 debuffs and a healer, oh and god forbids you're running more than one while having better options

For Healing is the same; maybe you're in the Raging bar and for some reason you couldn't stun the Boss, so the next turn you know you're getting an Overdrive Blast to the face and a heal might save your party before starting that turn
A Regen will give you around the same (normally less than a Heal, just like a defense buff gives you less than a damage cut in most scenarios) split into three turns.

Comparing defense buffs with debuffs, that I find pretty dumb, even more if you're doing it the way someone in the thread is, saying that Amaterasu's buff isn't useful because it doesn't add up to the same degree that a debuff would when Amaterasu has drumroll please a -20 Attack and -20 Defense debuff too which is the same that Sol provides you -20 Attack Debuff with an extra Defense debuff rather they are in a different Frame and that's one of the three things what makes Sol so especial (ofcourse, ofcourse I'm not comparing a B Frame which is pretty common and even has an EX skill around it with a C Frame like Sol of Cthulhu. I just want to help new people to see the degree of their debuffs); meh??? I don't know anymore lol. This became really cringy in a few hours you could've been better saying "Andromeda's Debuff" isn't as good and it would've atleast seemed like you put thought on your words rather than comparing a buff with a debuff on a Kamihime that has both

[bigblackcock]

Just wondering if the SSR weapon is worth using.
I saved plenty of jewels trying to get osiris and failed, so i use andromeda/cassi in dark formation.
My grid have 2 defender weapon so i may replace on of them or one of the SR guns from raid boss.
But, is that weapon worth using to begin with?
My team is: cassi/andromeda, satan, hades, susanoo, ren and beelzebub+nyarla in sub

[VeryVoodoo]

I'd say a pride weapon definitely has more value than a defender weapon.

[Slashley]

Just wondering if the SSR weapon is worth using.
I saved plenty of jewels trying to get osiris and failed, so i use andromeda/cassi in dark formation.
My grid have 2 defender weapon so i may replace on of them or one of the SR guns from raid boss.
But, is that weapon worth using to begin with?
My team is: cassi/andromeda, satan, hades, susanoo, ren and beelzebub+nyarla in subIn general I'd value Pride weapons way above Assault (as long as you're not running something crazy like double healer + regen build or something). Also, after playing with +50% HP (skill level 20 + skill level 16 SSR Defenders + 20% from Eidolon), I have to say... wow. That HP gets you really far.

It does depend on content, but I'd say by default keep two Defenders on and also use the Pride weapon. For me, swapping one SSR Defender for a skill level 20 SSR Assault would be a 5% damage increase, which certainly is no minor thing. However, that would hurt my survival ability a lot. And using double Elemental Eidolons would be 12% damage increase, so that's where I'd first look for more damage.

[sanahtlig]

SSR weapons are reliably better than SR weapons, regardless of the skill they come with. The stat difference alone is usually enough to mitigate the damage difference to 2-4%. After that, it's +2% damage (SR assault) vs. whatever bonus the SSR provides. Even if that's +8% HP (stacked with several HP buffs), it's still worth it.

[bigblackcock]

SSR weapons are reliably better than SR weapons, regardless of the skill they come with. The stat difference alone is usually enough to mitigate the damage difference to 2-4%. After that, it's +2% damage (SR assault) vs. whatever bonus the SSR provides. Even if that's +8% HP (stacked with several HP buffs), it's still worth it.
so in other words i should replace 1 of my dark gun for the axe for the difference in attack and also the skill will do the difference.


In general I'd value Pride weapons way above Assault (as long as you're not running something crazy like double healer + regen build or something). Also, after playing with +50% HP (skill level 20 + skill level 16 SSR Defenders + 20% from Eidolon), I have to say... wow. That HP gets you really far.

It does depend on content, but I'd say by default keep two Defenders on and also use the Pride weapon. For me, swapping one SSR Defender for a skill level 20 SSR Assault would be a 5% damage increase, which certainly is no minor thing. However, that would hurt my survival ability a lot. And using double Elemental Eidolons would be 12% damage increase, so that's where I'd first look for more damage.

so according to that, as i already have 2 defender weapons in my grid, then weapon that should replaced 1 of my dark guns for the pride axe?
also as we start to get weapons with 2 skills i guess they also can be counted as "defender" weapons, so i may replace my defender axe (or..another gun) for valentine's sword.

i'm not sure yet, but think i'll give up on using pride weapons in my water team, we'll get 2 of them in a row after frost so..sucks for me.
it's not as crazy team as you described, but if i can get ssr nike or aphrodite it may be a team that can be with high HP in most cases (aside of crazy stuff like accessory quest, guild order, ragnarok raid bosses etc..)

[LeCrestfallen]

Correct me if i am wrong, but don't pride weapons give per skill level .5% attack and HP, and the lower your HP drop, you get additional flat % to attack?
basicly assault and defender in one.

i am referring to this table though.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/237824893117399041/386249287962591264/Pride_Skill.jpg

[Slashley]

Is it just me, or does Envy have insane debuff resistance? I'm at 45 Debuff+ Grail buff, and fucker still sometimes resists debuffs.
Correct me if i am wrong, but don't pride weapons give per skill level .5% attack and HP, and the lower your HP drop, you get additional flat % to attack?
basicly assault and defender in one.

i am referring to this table though.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/237824893117399041/386249287962591264/Pride_Skill.jpgNo, Pride has the same .5% gain per skill level. However, their base Assault is 0% when at full health, compare to 6% to SSR Assault. But they very quickly gain that 6%. Namely, when you've lost one third of your HP, it's the same as an SSR Assault weapon. Below that? Pure free damage. That usually means that you when you need it, you do more damage, as your first full Burst tends to be after enemy Overdrive.

[LeCrestfallen]

ah mixed up the weapons, the one with assault and defender was the sphinx mace, not the pride weapon.

[Unregistered]

I feel like Envy has slightly more debuff resistance than Pride or Wrath did, but debuffs still land the vast majority of the time without any aids. It's still at least an order of magnitude away from Lust's resistance.
Granted, certain things that are supposed to improve the rate of debuffs landing don't seem make much of a noticable improvement (Sphinx, I'm looking at you).

[Slashley]

With the exception of Lust, I feel like ~30 Debuff+ Grail buff was enough to get your debuffs to ~100%. I think there was a resist here and there, but.

Even Dark Lilim is constantly resisting my debuffs. Like, it is not rare that only one of my three Def debuffs (A, B, B if first B resisted) goes through. No Grail buffs there, but geez.

[VeryVoodoo]

I'm pretty sure 90% of our runs/battles in this event were done on auto-attack. For our Union's full of lazy people, and thus we've perfected the art of auto-battling. :p
The powers of the auto-attack are not to be underestimated:
8029

:rolleyes:

[Slashley]

90%? I'd hope 100% really.
Also, nice almost exact 10% contribution.

8030
As usual, I'm like 20% of mine. And geez, this time we had huge issues with Grails. I hope it was Koihime or x-mas preparations keeping people busy, since that was just unacceptable. We were running ~330 Grails after the first two days.

[MrAir]

8031
Event was hard... not stable aab, even dual acc, all runs after expert 200 only manual, but even before 200 i used mostly manual cuz aab is too slow vs. debuff cleanse...

[bigblackcock]

just wondering, i see you guys did 17-39 invidual PP and wondered why to go this far?
personally i lost motivation in practicing in the event after we got all the rewards and barely hit the 7M XD
i have nothing to do with the SR eido/weapons mats atm so they'll just stuck in my slots so that why i wondering, why to bother to go that far?

[Kitty]

yall r crackheads

[Slashley]

just wondering, i see you guys did 17-39 invidual PP and wondered why to go this far?Biggest reason was boredom. Also, I had left weeks of YouTube backlog for Envy, and I made good use of it. Auto-skills KH in secondary monitor, YouTubes in primary monitor.

Second biggest was to get Union PP to max ASAP so that I could actually make use out of Eidolon enchant mats.
i have nothing to do with the SR --weapons mats atm so they'll just stuck in my slots so that why i wondering, why to bother to go that far?How is that even possible? I could probably use the weapons mats for like, the next ten Union events right now... and that's not including the backlog that would come from the events in between these Union events...

[bigblackcock]

Biggest reason was boredom. Also, I had left weeks of YouTube backlog for Envy, and I made good use of it. Auto-skills KH in secondary monitor, YouTubes in primary monitor.

Second biggest was to get Union PP to max ASAP so that I could actually make use out of Eidolon enchant mats.How is that even possible? I could probably use the weapons mats for like, the next ten Union events right now... and that's not including the backlog that would come from the events in between these Union events...

well, i can understand the part of get all the rewards asap, but after that? only the bp for expert to get some seeds back.
and well, all the SSR and SR weapons i'm using on my grid are already level 125 (or 85 for SR) aside of 3 SR weapon with really low attack so i'm kinda about to throw them away for sain nicolas weapon and the future light ones.
also have about 30+ SR weapon materials waiting for the SSR weapon of jack o frost event, add the ones we'll get by clearing ultimates and it's all good.

[Slashley]

well, i can understand the part of get all the rewards asap, but after that?--Weapon fodder.

I got like 30k exp to to two Fire SSR weapons in this, 73k (level 123, leaving the last two levels for weapon skill upgrades to do) for the Darkness Axe, 36k to Titania Staff and maybe like 10k to Koihime sword (which still needs like 50k). I spent the weapon fodder I got from Koihime event on something else.

And I have... 8 LMB Assault SRs of various types which are level 1, so they need 35k each. So that's 280k fodder required right there, plus the 50k for the Koihime SSR. Since I made roughly 179k exp this event , I guess I might be done one day? ... probably not, since I a good amount of Defender SRs which need maxing, most of which are Arcane weapons. Morgan has a passive which only works on Arcane weapons, for a "in case" scenario in the far future, it'd be nice to have properly leveled weapons for possible Morgan usage.

[bigblackcock]

Weapon fodder.

I got like 30k exp to to two Fire SSR weapons in this, 73k (level 123, leaving the last two levels for weapon skill upgrades to do) for the Darkness Axe, 36k to Titania Staff and maybe like 10k to Koihime sword (which still needs like 50k). I spent the weapon fodder I got from Koihime event on something else.

And I have... 8 LMB Assault SRs of various types which are level 1, so they need 35k each. So that's 280k fodder required right there, plus the 50k for the Koihime SSR. Since I made roughly 179k exp this event , I guess I might be done one day? ... probably not, since I a good amount of Defender SRs which need maxing, most of which are Arcane weapons. Morgan has a passive which only works on Arcane weapons, for a "in case" scenario in the far future, it'd be nice to have properly leveled weapons for possible Morgan usage.

oh, so i guess that why.
i'm not using some of the SSR defender weapons from last events like mastema staff, the fire bow and even didn't bother to get all the copies from koihime sword.
next wind event has a bow with 2 skills along the axe from quetzalcoatl is kinds enough HP for me so i didn't bother with the sword.
also already have 2 thunder defender weapons so getting 3 sounds too much.
i don't even bother to use SR defender in my grid, just using them as material weapons to level up skills.
and i don't think i'll use the water pride weapon we'll have soon as well (in case i manage to find aphrodite/ unleashed nike)
so using less weapon is the reason i have extra SR weapon materials XD

[VeryVoodoo]

just wondering, i see you guys did 17-39 invidual PP and wondered why to go this far?

Well as others have said already, it's partly for the weapon enhance mats. Having fully max-lvl'ed grids with spares for every element is a beautiful thing. :o
And I estimate we ran 90% of the battles on auto-attack, so it's not like it took much effort.

The other part is to simply challenge yourself on the higher lvl bosses. It's good to get a feel for the lvl 300+ bosses and see if you're able to beat 'em for instance. Eventually, these Union Events will come with Rankings for the top Unions, so it's to prepare for that future. The fun is in the competition. So far, I think only Amaterasu beat our total this event. So Top 2 ain't bad, since the Top 5 all get same rewards later in rankings.

[AgentFakku]

https://i.imgur.com/K25Bvsvm.jpg

here's my count

I got too tired and busy w/ holidays