New 5-stars

[Tyruss]

OK Am I just that slow or is it new? Today when I was collecting my money I saw that Princess Agate and Abrael have now 5 stars. So how long is it in the game?

[EroKa]

I didn't see it, another silent update I guess.
Thank you anyway ! :D

[Frelas]

yup, its definitely a new update implented today.
With that said 5 star agate was sadly not worth the affection for me and especially not for your ingame character.

[sniddy]

piles pain on the misery that is the new affection system - still broken and devs still silent

[Bigshow71]

Well fuck me sideways. I just barely finished getting Ankyo to five stars. Now I have to drop millions more for the new ones. *sigh* Back to the grind.

[vem]

Ouch I don't want to know how much Abrael's 5 star will cost (will probably find out with the next shop refresh).

[Frelas]

Ugh more than 10k affection points needed for 4 star abreal, that is 4,3 million
i wont bother with the 5 star that is for certain.

[MuljoStpho]

Well fuck me sideways. I just barely finished getting Ankyo to five stars. Now I have to drop millions more for the new ones. *sigh* Back to the grind.

lol, me too. Just did that last week. She's 10th on the list for me and the fee in the last scene was almost 10 mil, which left me with just over 1 mil leftover. (Saved back up to almost 3 mil now.)

Agate's 3rd on my list so I guess she won't be quite so super crazy, at least. But Abrael is.... 17th on my list. I think they just might have more new 5-stars available before I can finish Abrael's new scenes.

Edit: Huh, interesting. Haven't given either of them any affection items yet, and Agate is 751 / 2745 towards 4-star while Abrael is 15.3k / 15.6k towards 4-star. Easier for me to get Abrael there. The fees for the 4-star scenes will be a different story though. Let's see... 405k for Agate or 2.3 mil for Abrael.

[Unregistered]

Edit: Huh, interesting. Haven't given either of them any affection items yet, and Agate is 751 / 2745 towards 4-star while Abrael is 15.3k / 15.6k towards 4-star. Easier for me to get Abrael there. The fees for the 4-star scenes will be a different story though. Let's see... 405k for Agate or 2.3 mil for Abrael.

I wish. I have 11,900 aff to get 4 star Abrael. I am not even going to try.

[Eversor86]

My Abra is 20th so I need 53k3 affection points to get her to 5 stars. I do have overflown affection from pre 2.0 so im at like 14k95 of those 53k+. 5 star upgrade will cost 19m6 if to go by wiki, so yay me weeks of farming.

And on discord someone said they have her at 42 place... thats over twice the costs/affection required.

4/5 star should use a different multiplier, not which position in harem the girl is, but in what order the 4/5 stars were released/added to the game. Then it would be fair for all people and this stupid bullshit where some people have girls on low places and pay low amounts, and some have them on high places making them seem like impossible to upgrade wouldn't happen.

[Tyruss]

Not realy ... they should just rework this shitty system. It if fine on first few girls but it get out of hand quickly ... and it is punishing for people that play the game for longer time ... why would they want to punish old-timers that stayed with them from the beginning?

[Bigshow71]

Not realy ... they should just rework this shitty system. It if fine on first few girls but it get out of hand quickly ... and it is punishing for people that play the game for longer time ... why would they want to punish old-timers that stayed with them from the beginning?

This!! I've got 52 girls and haven't been able to amass any in-game cash since the HH 2.0 launch. Every bit I get goes straight into buying affection items or paying upgrade costs. I've come to fear an event because I know that (a) my cash flow is going to drop to next to nothing since I have to grind low level trolls for event girls and (b) the troll girls, mission girl and epic pachinko girl(s) that I get for an event just mean all that much more grinding for items and upgrade costs. Couple that with the scaling pachinko price and the new "pay to win" contests and you have a game designed to keep you in perpetual poverty.

[Eversor86]

Technically thou, only things you really need cash in this game are upgrades and affection on girls, so the fact you don't amass cash means that game has worthy cash sinks. Or at least thats one way on looking at this situation.

[sniddy]

Unless somethings done on affection soon I'm likely to throw the towel in I'm on maintenance only right now, log in do some fights a mission or 2 - hoping - probably give it till end of month then walk

[Tyruss]

Not true ... now you need cash for affectin, lvl-up girls, maybe pachinko (some people may want purple gear), personal upgrade (they are working on some big pvp change so it may be useful) AND lot of contests which now need you to donate money. And I am fine with spending few days on one girl to get her to 3 stars ... thats fine but 5 stars are too much

[Eversor86]

Umm. OK

- I mentioned affection as a main source of cash sink, cause upgrading affection to unlock scenes is kinda the thing you are supposed to pursue in this game.
- Leveling up girls is useless - at least part 3 ones you have in your team - so this kinda doesn't count.
- Normal Pachinko is kinda useless - at least till the big PvP/battle machnics change - stats aren't really important either for story, neither for affection upgrading (which are two main things of this game - everything else is a side-track stuff), and they never will be as said by Devs.
- I mentioned personal upgrades - but that was actually kinda a mistake on my part, cause like I just said above stats aren't really important yet, so technically you could cut that out from a worthy cash sink list.
- You can't really use contenst as a money sink thing, they are not important either for story nor affection upgrades, they are basically a small e-penis competitions to force people into doing things they probably wouldn't do just to win. The only use for contests is changing cash into kobans, but with how much cash affection/story requires and with how much kobans we get daily I would question its usefulness especially now after the change that made rewards level dependent.

What I am trying to say is that, there are two things in this game you really need to pay attention to - story and affection scenes/avatars. Everything else is a side-tracking busy-work for min-maxers or no-lifers, or simply for people who just get sucked by single game and want to have as much to do as possible.

Sure 4/5 stars are expensive as fuck, and girls on higher positions take up days counting in tens, but if upgrading them was easy and cheap, you would basically have nothing to do and you would amass cash like pre2.0 update. Really the only issue with 4/5 stars I have is that they release them all over the place, and cause people have girls on different positions cause they farm trolls in different order and get (un)lucky the cost to upgrade can vary a damn lot between people, plus feel unfair. All they need to do is replace harem position multiplier with a release order one, and then every next 4/5 would cost a bit more than previous one, but cause you managed to upgrade previous ones and leveled up a bit in the mean time, you would have higher cash/h and stuff should work. But that doesn't work when one girl is position 5 and one is 30+ and it takes weeks for the 30+ one that feels like a chore/punishment.

Well, at least thats what I think.

[SoonToBeLeavingGame]

I don't really bother with 4 and 5 stars. I am still working on getting them all to 3 stars. Costs of affection is too high compared to possible income.

But that is only one of many problems in the game. Another is the lack of something to use energy on while waiting for the next part in the questline, losing out on a lot of points for contests that way, and absolutely nothing to use their "big" Black Friday discount for, which in turn means no koban sale for them! Pretty bad step when you want to sell something!

It is a nice game, but veterans are being punished when max energy just sits there.

[Tyruss]

Contests are important ... you can get kobans from them ... but yeah most of the stuff is pointless now that is true

[SamRei]

Ok, I really tried to save money and stuff, but Abraels 5 star is really killing me, she is only Nr. 11 on my list, and it's still 13k affection and hell know how much five stars will cost in the end.

Bad devs, really bad, get into your corner and think about what you have done

[Eversor86]

You can go to HH wiki and check how expensive it will be, theres a list in harem tab with affection required and cost of upgrades themselves for all 5 stars for multipliers (thus harem position) up to 75 IIRC.

[Unregistered]

Unless somethings done on affection soon I'm likely to throw the towel in I'm on maintenance only right now, log in do some fights a mission or 2 - hoping - probably give it till end of month then walk

Yup. I'm already at this point. I've given up hope completely on the Devs, and just log in when bored to collect scraps and peace out. The reward is severely lacking compared to the investment needed now. It's a shame, they could have done so many great and fun things with this game, but instead they ruined it.

[JessieChan]

Hello, dear all.

Thank you for this topic.

Officially, we can say that, yes, we are reading all you say and we are working on it.
The prices of the new 5 stars were carefully calculated, though. Do you remember that on our previous 5-star releases most of you already had the 5-star, without even doing something for it? We, first wanted to prevent this and then.. Continue designing Harem Heroes in the best way. For the 5-star scenes we recruit additional artists and do tons of work... It's a lot and we want to continue doing it, but also we want to tease you and make you work in order to get them!

I don't want to say it all out, but, I will let you know that our Game Design is now working on a feature that will totally give you more chances to earn cash in the game. It's in discussion and production.
I will give you more details with time. :)

Best,
Jessie

[Eversor86]

Sorry but your post Jessie is border-lining into bullshit territory.

Nobody had 5 stars without any work, we still needed to pay upgrade costs, and not everyone has shit tone of money stored to do so, and even if they did? they worked for that money before 4/5 stars release.

How can you say you carefully calculated prices for 5 stars, where the price is connected to girls position in harems and varies for all people? Do you really want us to believe its fair for people who were kinda unlucky and got Abra as her 40th harem girl, where some have her at 10?

Also telling us that making 2 affection upgrade scenes and 2 avatars (aka 4 images) is "tons of work", I am genuinely worried for the future of this game, seeing how harem girls their scenes and story relies on images a lot and even with additional artists pace is slow as a snail :).

The issue with low harem position girls being to easy to upgrade was that you experimented with allowing us to keep pre2.0 update affection points on girls, which for 3 stars was around 15k which is enough for low harem girls to be ready for 4/5 stars upgrades, and helps quite a bit with high harem position girls.

The simplest solution to this mess and keep the so called carefully calculated prices, is to use a 4/5 star release order as multiplier for 4/5 stars instead of the harem position. With that the cost and affection required is fair for all people, cause it doesn't matter when they got the girls, and also you can remove that overflow from pre2.0 because if the price will go steadily up, you don't need helping with the more costly girl, and not helping with less costly girl. Heck you could actually do a bit of re-thinking and maybe actually really carefully set the prices knowing that everyone would have the same multiplier and that the cost with each 4/5 stars released would steadily go up with release ordered multiplier instead of random harem position one we have now?

Just few thoughts of mine, maybe a bit rage induced.

[Frelas]

''We made 5 star extremely expensive to give players a sense of pride and accomplishment''

[Tyruss]

Well I love to see thet I started this thread just to ask if we just get two new 5-stars and it turned out into full lynch :D
But yeah I hate the cost of 5-stars too ... Abrael is my 20th girl and need 35k affection ... but I can live with that ... but I fear what other girls will cost later. BUT! I am willing to wait for that update Jassie mentioned. The problem with affection items was corrected just fine and it didnt take "that" long (but now we have problem with money so...). And that's why I will wait before joining on the fun with torch in hand.

PS: that about calculating sound little forced and I dont like argument about overflow since it will not be on all girls and more importantly it will be useless for new players

[Bigshow71]

''We made 5 star extremely expensive to give players a sense of pride and accomplishment''

Daaaaaamn! Shot's fired. :D

[wthvr]

The prices of the new 5 stars were carefully calculated, though.

besides nothing you calculated was remotely close to careful. I already made some posts about how atrocious the price scaling is as it takes literally YEARS to only get the money back you spend for affection and upgrade costs for the very first 5 star girls let alone later ones - even for 3 stars it takes months to get even. How is that carefully calculated?

when HH 2.0 was introduced and the huge outcry regarding the shitty affection system happened you stated that you are carefully watching whats happening as you dont want to rush into changes that might turn out bad due to a lack of time where your data was collected. it has been months and personally the amout of missing upgrades only got worse and worse with the introduction of more and more 5 star girls.

and I am pretty sure that I am one of the most active people in the game given that my level is ~150 - if you exclude whales only a very few people are actually above me in level and had massive amout of affection items stocked up before HH 2.0 was released
for people who clear their haram cash less frequent it can only be worse

[sniddy]

I haven't logged in in days - why - no new story content I assume and the cost (time) > reward ration is so terrible now there is no incentive to play, let alone pay

2.0 has killed my interest in the game dead. Before that if had a monthly or so 100 gold for an epic roll....I'd have taken it - not big money but I'd support a game I enjoyed, now no

[Tristelune]

already made some posts about how atrocious the price scaling is as it takes literally YEARS to only get the money back you spend for affection and upgrade costs for the very first 5 star girls let alone later ones - even for 3 stars it takes months to get even.
Girls are not intented to be profitable. The main benefits to upgrade them is to unlock their new poses and scenes (and, eventually, to raise their stats).



when HH 2.0 was introduced and the huge outcry regarding the shitty affection system happened you stated that you are carefully watching whats happening as you dont want to rush into changes that might turn out bad due to a lack of time where your data was collected. it has been months and personally the amout of missing upgrades only got worse and worse with the introduction of more and more 5 star girls.

and I am pretty sure that I am one of the most active people in the game given that my level is ~150 - if you exclude whales only a very few people are actually above me in level and had massive amout of affection items stocked up before HH 2.0 was released
for people who clear their haram cash less frequent it can only be worse
I have a big enough number of girls, the small stock of affection items I had before rebalance is gone long ago, and yet I manage to up one girl from 0 to 3 in just 3 or 4 days. Oh, and I play a total of around 15 to 20 minutes per day.
There must be something wrong with your strategy? Maybe because you focus on 5 stars instead of finishing first to raise your girls to 3 stars?
The current game economy can hardly accomodate for the price of 4 and 5 stars, but does pretty well for up to 3 stars.
Additional features are in preparation to bring more cash to the game for 4 and 5 stars. For now, I suggest you just focus on 3rd stars. It's perfectly doable.



I haven't logged in in days - why - no new story content I assume
Actually a new scroll has been delivered today. Assuming too much is not always a good idea :)

[sniddy]

not been paying as much attention - thanks, shows my point well mind

[JessieChan]

''We made 5 star extremely expensive to give players a sense of pride and accomplishment''

Hello, dear Frelas.

Usually, when you put the '' '' it means you are quoting, yet in this case I don't think this is a quote, not from my post.

Can you say why you think so?

Best,
Jessie

[SamRei]

Hello Miss Chan

I think that was a reference to EAs answer concerning the lootboxes in battlefront, so the main point he wants to say, he highly questions the sincerity of your statement. Fear not, at least your shares won’t lose 3.1 billion in the process.

I would also like to point out, your statement the prices of the 5 star girls were carefully calculated does feel a little odd. What was the idea, did you want many players to be frustrated enough with the high costs to buy more kobans? I can’t think of any other reason for these really high upgrade prices.

Maybe you carefully calculated the prices, that doesn’t make them fair.

I still need around 5 million more cash and 3800 affection to get Abrael to 5 stars. I’m a rather new player, I arrived in world8 a week ago and I only have 19 girls, all max but Abrael (of course). Considering that was the cheap part of the upgrades, I don’t know if this game is really worth my time, and I think many people will ask themselves that question.

[Frelas]

Hello, dear Frelas.

Usually, when you put the '' '' it means you are quoting, yet in this case I don't think this is a quote, not from my post.

Can you say why you think so?

Best,
Jessie

Hey jessie,

Like samrei already said it has to do with ea anwer.
They answered the question why they put a horrible grind in their game, they answered that they did it to give players a sense of pride and achievement(it was actually implented to get people to spend more money on lootboxes to reduce the horrible grind)
The statement was ridiculed to the point of a running joke.
The reason i said that, was less to do with questioning your sincerity and more to do with the fact that you put a horrible grind in the game, jokingly stating the reason for the grind is to give players a sense of pride and achievement.

Harem heroes is a f2p game and putting a grind into the game to get people to spend their money is frustrating but to a certain degree understandeble.
But the grind you guys have put in the game, do not give people a incentive to spend money. Hell you cant even spend money reasonable on affection items.
The pachinko doesnt count because you will get not enough affection items and you get more girls which you never get enough affection items for in the pachinko. But the worst part it that it hurts the whales the most, the people that spend the most money. Making it in my eyes a strange decision.

[wthvr]

I have a big enough number of girls, the small stock of affection items I had before rebalance is gone long ago, and yet I manage to up one girl from 0 to 3 in just 3 or 4 days. Oh, and I play a total of around 15 to 20 minutes per day.
There must be something wrong with your strategy? Maybe because you focus on 5 stars instead of finishing first to raise your girls to 3 stars?
The current game economy can hardly accomodate for the price of 4 and 5 stars, but does pretty well for up to 3 stars.
Additional features are in preparation to bring more cash to the game for 4 and 5 stars. For now, I suggest you just focus on 3rd stars. It's perfectly doable.


I only focus on the most efficent girls to upgrade - meaning: 2 > 3 > 4 > 5.
I am glad you apparently are a god gamer and manage to upgrade a girl from 0 to 3 within 4 days with only playing 20 mins a day - but before more people say bullshit like that, lets actually check the stats.

We take 50 girls in harem as reasonable amout, which means a girl roughly needs 11k affection from 0 to 3. Price per point of affection is 417 times 11k = 4587000 + upgrade costs of roughly 1.5kk (lets say 6kk in total).
So you manage to get 6000000 in 4 days by only playing 20 mins? in 20 mins you will gain roughly 100k (slightly more) from fully stacked haram money - if you fight the highest boss possible that will be another 15*24k = 360000 k - which means your total earnings for the greediest route possible is not even 500k (if we add quests/contests even).
So just from your statement it would take you nearly TWO WEEKs to upgrade A SINGLE GIRL from 0 to 3 by just playing 20mins. Each event gives you 3 new girls which need more than a month to upgrade - in that time you have the next contest and more girls PLUS the extra addition of 5 star girls which you actually dont have to think about, because you will never be able to upgrade them.
Now I understand that not everybody only play 20 mins - but if you throw in some extra girls from epic panchinko you simply buy with accumulated kobans from the full dayly reward you will be busy spamming upgrades on 3 star girls full time.

[Tristelune]

I only focus on the most efficent girls to upgrade - meaning: 2 > 3 > 4 > 5.
I am glad you apparently are a god gamer and manage to upgrade a girl from 0 to 3 within 4 days with only playing 20 mins a day - but before more people say bullshit like that, lets actually check the stats.

We take 50 girls in harem as reasonable amout, which means a girl roughly needs 11k affection from 0 to 3. Price per point of affection is 417 times 11k = 4587000 + upgrade costs of roughly 1.5kk (lets say 6kk in total).
So you manage to get 6000000 in 4 days by only playing 20 mins? in 20 mins you will gain roughly 100k (slightly more) from fully stacked haram money - if you fight the highest boss possible that will be another 15*24k = 360000 k - which means your total earnings for the greediest route possible is not even 500k (if we add quests/contests even).
So just from your statement it would take you nearly TWO WEEKs to upgrade A SINGLE GIRL from 0 to 3 by just playing 20mins. Each event gives you 3 new girls which need more than a month to upgrade - in that time you have the next contest and more girls PLUS the extra addition of 5 star girls which you actually dont have to think about, because you will never be able to upgrade them.
Now I understand that not everybody only play 20 mins - but if you throw in some extra girls from epic panchinko you simply buy with accumulated kobans from the full dayly reward you will be busy spamming upgrades on 3 star girls full time.

Lol, who's saying bullshit here?
I said I play between 15 and 20 minutes per day and I stand by that fact. You just failed to understand that I play 15 times 1 minute :D
So please, stop the smartass act, it just makes you look ridiculous :)

(Also, your calculation for fighting the highest boss is wrong, but it's irrelevant to the topic)

[SamRei]

stop the smartass act, it just makes you look ridiculous

From point of view, the uninvolved reader of your posts, I really don't think he will snatch the smartass cup from you.


I play 15 times 1 minute

Cool story bro, needs more dragons

[Tristelune]

From point of view, the uninvolved reader of your posts, I really don't think he will snatch the smartass cup from you.


Mind to explain? I simply gave facts here while he basically called me a liar...

[sniddy]

Hello, dear Frelas.

Usually, when you put the '' '' it means you are quoting, yet in this case I don't think this is a quote, not from my post.

Can you say why you think so?

Best,
Jessie

Because he's probably right sarcastic and bitter maybe, but right - it's that or we made it harder in the hopes you'd spend money to refill fights

...also in all honesty as 'the face' you're really great at spin, but come off completely insincere and borderline hostile as times

[wthvr]

Mind to explain? I simply gave facts here while he basically called me a liar...

lets check the dayly maximum amout you can earn:
- troll fights (20min/fight = 24k money) which means 24h*3fights/h*24k/fight= 1728k per day from trolls given that you do not sleep, pause or let any combativity go to waste
- harem income (lets say roughly 100k/2h - it actually is slightly more but it wont change much) = 1200k per day if you do not sleep or pause for a longer time
lets count quest/contests etc together so we will roughly have 3kk total per day possible if you dont pause at all

that would mean that it would still take 2 days of NONSTOP playing to get a girls (with 50 girls in your harem) from 0 to 3 - and you are telling me that 'with 20 minutes playtime I only need a maximum of double the amout as someone who would play 24/7 nonstop' without evidence or backup of any form - that's why I call bullshit on your comment

" I simply gave facts here while he basically called me a liar... " - sure nice facts bro, maybe you should consider what facts are - either some somewhat solid mathmatical calculations on what you can earn in a certain timeframe or say random guy saying "i only need 20minutes to get that done"
you saying that you only play for 20 mins heavily implies that you have limited time per day and not that you frequently collect everything and basically are active roughly 12-16h each day

[Eversor86]

From point of view, the uninvolved reader of your posts, I really don't think he will snatch the smartass cup from you.

Cool story bro, needs more dragons

I will chime in:

- Best troll in game gives 20k on average not 24k.
- Efficiency of harem collecting drops down to around 75% if you collect only once per hour.

So if you log in once every 1h you get 75% of possible cash/h from harem and you can get full 60k/h cash from battling trolls, this wont take that much time, maybe 2 minutes if you are slow, but it can be speed up by having monthly card which makes harem collecting a 2 click process.

Thus a person spending less than 20 minuts on the game spread across 16h a day, can have 19h+ worth of troll battles (including 3.(3)h worth of combativity regenerated while sleeping), and 75% of cash/h his harem can achieve assuming once per hour collecting. Thats 1140k cash from trolls and 17h wroth of 0.75x what your harem cash/h is, which for 50 girls harem would probably be around 70k/h, 75% of that is 52k5/h which would be then nearly 900k.

That totals at 2040k cash a day, but if he played more and collected cash from harem more often he would go up on harem cash to nearly 1200k per day with perfect collecting and thus get total up to 2340k.

Maxing a girl from 0 to 3 stars assuming that would cost 6M would take 3 days for someone playing 20 minutes a day, and still over 2.5 days for someone babysitting game for 16h.

So explain to me why you say that Tristelune wont lose the smartass cup to wthvr, when wthvr is the one bailing out math and facts that are simply wrong?

Also why do you need more dragons in a description of how most people actually play this game?


" I simply gave facts here while he basically called me a liar... " - sure nice facts bro, maybe you should consider what facts are - either some somewhat solid mathmatical calculations on what you can earn in a certain timeframe or say random guy saying "i only need 20minutes to get that done"
you saying that you only play for 20 mins heavily implies that you have limited time per day and not that you frequently collect everything and basically are active roughly 12-16h each day

Him saying he needs 20 minutes doesn't imply anything, you just wrongly assumed he plays 20 minutes in one time session and based your "facts and math" battle against him on that.

You ask him to provide you with math/prof for what he say and instantly provide your own flawed math where you use wrong numbers, and focus only on what someone can earn a day if they baby-sit the game, ignoring math for what someone can earn if they play low amount of time but spread across whole day (how most people actually play this game, me included).

I proved with math he was right, so maybe some apology from you to him is in order?

And just for sake of math/profs here is the link to my post where I analyzed on base on my own harem whats the efficiency (http://harem-battle.club/harem-heroes/3979-please-cap-affection-upgrade-costs-4.html#post95145) of cash/h of harem based on how often do you collect. My harem had 75 girls at that time and all but 2 were at 3 to 5 stars, 2 newest event girls were at 1/2 and IIRC one of girls added in previous batch of 4/5 stars was on her way to 5th star. But getting more girls or upgrading such a small amount of girls doesn't change much in the results.

Heck that post even have graphs attachments ;]

[wthvr]

okay 20k instead of 24k doesnt make much of a difference as it simply is 20*24k*3 = 144k in combination of your 75% in 1h which means 75k in 1 = 75*24
which means literally nothing has changed
and the context of his 20min comment was that he manages more than I do while ONLY playing 20 mins - so yes he does imply that he has limited time otherwise this entire statement would be pointless as he would use more time while questioning efficency

even your numbers do not vary significantly from mine - why do you even call me out on minor differences

and all calculations include troll battles only and not tower of fame which would lower the value in an actual significant way

all in all my inital calculations where done with the premisse that he plays 20 min in a row (which to be fair is not 100% accurate given his comment, but the way he worded it defintiely did not imply more than a couple log ins per day - as, like I already said above, it would not make any sense to include that if he spreads his logins throughout the day)
I overestimated trolls and udnerestimated haram gold

as everything did go out of hand - sorry for the hot blooded discussion, I think we should go back to topic:
price of 5 stars is too high

[Tristelune]

Thank you Eversor86.
I'll iterate with my own numbers, but you pretty much detailled my thoughs already.

For you wthvr and SamRei, here is the reality of my situation:

Right now, I have 83 girls at rank 3 and 3 at rank 5.
I currently aim to bring my girl n°87 to 3 stars.
As you know, it requires a total amount of 18,705 Affection points, and a total of 2,427,300 to pay for the scenes. The overall total of cash required is therefore 10,227,285.

Now, let’s compare this with my daily incomes.
For the sake of demonstration, let’s say I connect around 2 minute to the game when I wake up, then 1 minute every hour until I fall asleep. I have roughly 17 hours of activity per day for 7 hours of sleep. This make for a total of 18 connections per day (which is pretty close to my effective standard day).

Harem incomes:
When all my girls are ready to give me money, they total up for around 165,000.
So, in the morning, when I wake up, I get 165,000 during my first connection.
Now, for the rest of the day, it’s difficult to give an estimation of how much I make every hour. As a rule of thumb, let’s say I make 165,000 every 2 hours. Because in 2 hours, a few of my girls are not ready to collect, but several others can be collected twice, so it roughly balance it. So, that gives 82,500 per hour.
I will collect this 82,500 of cash 17 times, for a total of 1,402,500. Let’s add to this the 165,000 I collect in the morning when I wake up, that makes 1,567,500 with the harem only.
Actually, the real incomes I get this way are likely significantly higher, as Eversor86 explained, but let's keep it simple. I can demonstrate my point even with under-evaluated numbers

Battle incomes:
I will have full battle stamina when I wake up. This enable me to make 10 boss battles rights away. Battling Finalmecia brings an average of 20,000 - as clarified by Eversor86, and not 24,000 as you wrongly mentionned (which make me think that you might actually be a beginner at this game, aren’t you?). It gets me 200,000 at that time.
Then I make 3 battles every hour. So, each hour, I make an average of 60,000, and I do this 17 times a day in average. This brings me 1,020,000 more cash.
Total money from battle per day: 1,220,000

Other incomes:
I also get money from selling the gear I get from the free single pachinko each day, the 12 missions I complete, and eventually some contests that end.
For the sake of simplicity, let’s consider it totals up for about 50,000 per day at my level (level 133).

Other incomes that I don’t even take into consideration:
I actually have a few other girls at 0 stars. They don’t total up for a lot of money at the end of the day, but they’re here and they have an impact on the long run.
Also, I often take a few seconds to collect money from my harem and use my battle stamina when my baby boy wakes me up in the middle of the night. So, every 2 or 3 days, I make 200,000 or 300,000 more during the night. But honestly, I’d prefer to have a full night of rest. So, I’m not gonna count this in my calculation as well.

Total cash per day
With the elements detailled above, I make an average of 2,837,500 per day. Sometimes a bit more, sometimes a bit less. In general, it fluctuates between 2,500,000 and 3,000,000 depending how much I’m busy with work, family, and other personal activities.

This results in 3,6 days to reach the 10,227,285 required for bringing my girl 87 to 3 stars.

Now, is my claim to play between 15 and 20 minutes per day realistic?
Everytime I connect to the game, I collect money (2 seconds, because I have the monthly card that enable me to do it with a single clic). I open the Activities/Missions menu, claim the completed mission if any, and launch the first mission of the list (let’s say it takes 10 seconds). Then I do all my available battles. Let’s say one battle takes around 5 seconds (probably less, actually) because I press skip. And that’s all… So, a standard game session for me is 30 seconds… Let’s make it 45 if you will, because I might have to navigate on the world map, etc. And my first connection in the morning is longer because I have 10 battles to do and sometimes I also have to collect finished contests and check a few other stuffs. That make it up to 2 minutes.
So, 1 time 2 minutes and 17 times 45 seconds: it seems to be well under 20 minutes to me.


All of this is an average situation of course. But this correspond pretty well to my experience with the game. There might have days where I have less time, other where I have more time. Whatever. My point is to demonstrate that only a handful of days are necessary to raise a girl to 3 stars, even with a minimal investment in time (no more than 20 minutes per day in total) as long as you’re organized and efficient.

So wthvr, where is the bullshit in that? Tell me please :) It's funny how you questionned my knowledge of what facts are. Still laughing here ;)
SamRei, I prefer stories with facts than dragons. Mathematics don't lie. But to each his own, I guess.

[sniddy]

I work - i can log in about 3 maybe 4 of those 2 hour slots

it would take me 4 times as long - so if I need 10 million at your 2.5 million ish a day - lets call it 4 days and I can get a quarter of that working hell lets assume I get vigilant at weekends and somehow get on a lot more, and say 3 times as long that's 12 days - realistically it's more like 14 as I won't be hyper vigilant

Thats to get a girl to 3 stars let alone a 4th or 5th

[Dari]

Battle incomes:
I will have full battle stamina when I wake up. This enable me to make 10 boss battles rights away. Battling Finalmecia brings an average of 20,000 - as clarified by Eversor86, and not 24,000 as you wrongly mentionned (which make me think that you might actually be a beginner at this game, aren’t you?). It gets me 200,000 at that time.
Then I make 3 battles every hour. So, each hour, I make an average of 60,000, and I do this 17 times a day in average. This brings me 1,020,000 more cash.
Total money from battle per day: 1,220,000

If we have events this income takes a deep dive, Grunt gives ~2500 and I think Edwarda around 7500. There is a huge difference between earning 1.2 mil and ~130k

[wthvr]

I work - i can log in about 3 maybe 4 of those 2 hour slots

it would take me 4 times as long - so if I need 10 million at your 2.5 million ish a day - lets call it 4 days and I can get a quarter of that working hell lets assume I get vigilant at weekends and somehow get on a lot more, and say 3 times as long that's 12 days - realistically it's more like 14 as I won't be hyper vigilant

Thats to get a girl to 3 stars let alone a 4th or 5th

the supposedly 20mins he plays dayly cover roughly 75-80% of the possible dayly income. hence why I told him it makes no sense to call people out on income/strat because he can earn more by only playing 20 mins, which basically covers the entire day and is not representative in any way for anyone remotely close to casual. it is like saying 'I only play 5 mins a day but earn even more than the guy playing 20 mins' - sure that might be possible with nearly 100% efficency (log in every 10h for quest energy, 3h for trolls, 1h for harem money) but you do not really play 5/20 mins you basically play the entire day as there is absolutely no extra gain to be active in the down time (besides the small amout girls with <1h time give)

[Tristelune]

I work - i can log in about 3 maybe 4 of those 2 hour slots

it would take me 4 times as long - so if I need 10 million at your 2.5 million ish a day - lets call it 4 days and I can get a quarter of that working hell lets assume I get vigilant at weekends and somehow get on a lot more, and say 3 times as long that's 12 days - realistically it's more like 14 as I won't be hyper vigilant

Thats to get a girl to 3 stars let alone a 4th or 5th

Well, I work too, between 10 and 12 hours per day. But I admit my work is flexible enough that 80% of time, i can take a 1 minute break every hour.



If we have events this income takes a deep dive, Grunt gives ~2500 and I think Edwarda around 7500. There is a huge difference between earning 1.2 mil and ~130k

My demonstration was in "normal" conditions. But you're absolutely right. A day fighting Dark Lord brings about -35% incomes, and that's around -25% when I fight Edwarda.
Yet, this still make for a lot of money ;) And I have to admit that so far, i've been lucky enough to have obtained most of the boss event girls in a week or less.

[wthvr]

A day fighting Dark Lord brings about -35% incomes, and that's around -25% when I fight Edwarda.


if you go for event girls and fight darklord it pretty much is like 85-90% income loss (from boss battles only obviously), for edwarda it is like -60%, which is actually massive (with your calculations that would be ~150k - 750k instead of your 1.2mil)
its pretty stupid to think about, but trying for an event girl basically costs you 13-18k

I'd like to hear what your take on tower of fame vs troll fights (outside of events obviously) is? as one grants XP which does not have an immediate impact and one 'only' gives money

[sniddy]

Im on office drone, like a lot of people and really can only do a morning run, and then a few hour in the evening

[Eversor86]

I'd like to hear what your take on tower of fame vs troll fights (outside of events obviously) is? as one grants XP which does not have an immediate impact and one 'only' gives money

Tower of fame is useless, at least till they make the battle mechanics/PvP update. You gain nothing from being higher in tower, and without serious whaling you won't reach top anyway.

As far as I know tower gives you no money, I don't recall if you get there exp at all, but you get twice as much mojo vs arena fights.

Arena fights give you at best 24 or 25 exp, and that value is static and depends on level differences or something and RNG (as I saw different numbers pop up from fighting the same person few times in a row).

Someone on discord did over 2k fights in arena noting down what he was getting, IIRC it was 26% of affection items, 60+% of cash and less than 20% for boosters, after he averaged cash value of affection items (not sure if he added cash value of boosters but it wouldn't change much), he calculated that average fight was giving him close to 5k cash. So thats at best 30k/h cash. I wasn't that lucky my average on cash/affection numbers I got over like 1k fights was actually barely reaching 4k.

So best troll gives you 60k/h, PvP gives you 30k/h but gives you exp. That exp is static which means it stays the same doesn't matter how high your level is. This in turn means that the higher your level is the less important exp from PvP becomes, cause exp rewards on daily quests goes up with you level. So you lose 300k to 600k cash daily if you utilize 10 to 20h worth of PvP/trolls, for sake of leveling up faster.

Now I don't have my own math, and person who calculated some things about exp vs cash didn't respond with his math formulas. But what he supposedly found out is that the gain from faster leveling in terms of higher cash rewards from daily quests and higher cash from selling higher level free items, is actually smaller than the cash you gain from doing trolls instead of PvP. But I didn't saw his math, nor I have my own math to back that up, and I would need to log down to much data over to many days to find some info to make the math myself, especially with the PvP/battle mechanics patch being close to release that could render all that math moot.

[Testeriffa]

lol, me too. Just did that last week. She's 10th on the list for me and the fee in the last scene was almost 10 mil, which left me with just over 1 mil leftover. (Saved back up to almost 3 mil now.)

Agate's 3rd on my list so I guess she won't be quite so super crazy, at least. But Abrael is.... 17th on my list. I think they just might have more new 5-stars available before I can finish Abrael's new scenes.

Edit: Huh, interesting. Haven't given either of them any affection items yet, and Agate is 751 / 2745 towards 4-star while Abrael is 15.3k / 15.6k towards 4-star. Easier for me to get Abrael there. The fees for the 4-star scenes will be a different story though. Let's see... 405k for Agate or 2.3 mil for Abrael.

for me shes on slot 20, 14k affection for 4. star, 5 star probbally 22k affection?....
this is hard :D

even ankyo got slotted down, after Aarcana for me, dont know why 5. star also 10k

[Tristelune]

the supposedly 20mins he plays dayly cover roughly 75-80% of the possible dayly income. hence why I told him it makes no sense to call people out on income/strat because he can earn more by only playing 20 mins, which basically covers the entire day and is not representative in any way for anyone remotely close to casual. it is like saying 'I only play 5 mins a day but earn even more than the guy playing 20 mins' - sure that might be possible with nearly 100% efficency (log in every 10h for quest energy, 3h for trolls, 1h for harem money) but you do not really play 5/20 mins you basically play the entire day as there is absolutely no extra gain to be active in the down time (besides the small amout girls with <1h time give)

The aim of my first answer to you was to give a generic demonstration that it was doable. It was most specifically oriented to you, self-described as "one of the most active people in the game". I never pretended people playing less than me could do it. Yet, now, you mention "anyone remotely close to casual"...

Also, let's be serious for 2 seconds here. I play 20 minutes a day and you imply I'm hardcore player instead of casual? That's funny. "Hardcore player" is for people that have video game as their main hobby and who often spend more than 2 or 3 hours per day on video game. I only play HH as a video game (so, usually no more than 20 minutes). I'm as much a casual player as everyone playing this game. Just efficient on how I make use of my time.



if you go for event girls and fight darklord it pretty much is like 85-90% income loss (from boss battles only obviously), for edwarda it is like -60%, which is actually massive (with your calculations that would be ~150k - 750k instead of your 1.2mil)
its pretty stupid to think about, but trying for an event girl basically costs you 13-18k

I'd like to hear what your take on tower of fame vs troll fights (outside of events obviously) is? as one grants XP which does not have an immediate impact and one 'only' gives money

Of course the -35% and -25% I mentionned were about my overall incomes, not just my boss fighting.
My take on Tower of Fame? Just ignore it for now, because it's inefficient in its current form (as Eversor86 mentionned, Kinkoid prepare a major update on PvP, battle system and ToF). If you mix Tower of Fame in your strategy, I'm less surprised that you struggle to raise affection.

[sniddy]

If you are able and do play over 14+ hours there is no doubt you are not a casual

Sure you may be able to get a reasonable income and a reasonable time to get 3*s done - and average casual player is screwed

[Tyruss]

Well one more problem is ... we all are only talking about money for affection .... but what about money to lvl up your girls, spinn that pachinko for equipment or rise your stats? Right now we just cant do that if we want to finish affection on our girls

[Tristelune]

If you are able and do play over 14+ hours there is no doubt you are not a casual

Sure you may be able to get a reasonable income and a reasonable time to get 3*s done - and average casual player is screwed

I don't get you... Why do you insist in saying I'm playing over 14+ hours a day? It makes no sense at all. Who on earth as that much free time to spend on video game? What matter is the actual time you spend on the game, so that you can have a normal life beside. My gaming time is no more than 20 minutes per day in total, as I have already explained. The fact that it's spread over the whole day is irrelevant.
You can search any excuse you want, but playing 20 minutes a day is casual. I just make each of these 20 minutes count.

[Eversor86]

Well one more problem is ... we all are only talking about money for affection .... but what about money to lvl up your girls, spinn that pachinko for equipment or rise your stats? Right now we just cant do that if we want to finish affection on our girls

Its not really a problem at least for now.

Leveling up girl other than the main 3 you use in your fight team is useless. Actually you know what? Even leveling your main girls is kinda not worth it for sake of troll battles. So only use for that is contests but they are essentially a dick measuring contests with varying cash to koban ratios.

Stats are useless, you can win fights with trolls being low stats and with girls level 1 no-stars. Which in turn renders items useless. Or maybe not useless - just not worth trying to get best items possible. Just use best stuff you get when you spin the kobans pachinko for girls once a month (as thats how often you should kinda be able to spin it if you don't waste kobans elsewhere, and even more often if you use monthly card thingy).

Half my items are level 55 rainbow legendaries we got after 2.0 gone live cause I just like having balance stats (thou I wish they had more base 3 stats instead of crit chance and ego), other half are also rainbow legendaries thou higher levels as I slowly replaced the gifted ones with epic pachinko stuff.

[SamRei]

I don't get you... Why do you insist in saying I'm playing over 14+ hours a day? It makes no sense at all.

Of course you don't understand, all your post make that perfectly clear.

From all your ramblings, that are tl;dr territory anyway, one can get the conclusion, you log in for short times over the course of around 15 hours, which is the only way you can get enough attack on trolls and money collecting done to get to your numbers of income. Maybe you push another of your missions on every log in, although getting your missions done seems to be hard this way, but I'm really not willing to discuss any of your statements at this point).

That's a big difference to people who might have two timeslots a day for this game.

[Tristelune]

Of course you don't understand, all your post make that perfectly clear.

From all your ramblings, that are tl;dr territory anyway, one can get the conclusion, you log in for short times over the course of around 15 hours, which is the only way you can get enough attack on trolls and money collecting done to get to your numbers of income. Maybe you push another of your missions on every log in, although getting your missions done seems to be hard this way, but I'm really not willing to discuss any of your statements at this point).

That's a big difference to people who might have two timeslots a day for this game.

Ah, yes, so here we are! The real problem is not that this game requires too much time to play (I demonstrated mathematically that 20 minutes per day are enough). Your real problem is that you cannot connect to the game more than twice per day. But then, that's an issue by the player side, not the game side.

As a side note, I have a friend who tells me he connects 5 or 6 times per day, and he manages to be up to date with his girls (he doesn't go for 4 and 5 stars either, except Bunny, Red Battler and Juliette). But then, he gets between 4 and 5 girls per month, while I usually get 9+, hence why I have to play more.

[sniddy]

OK - Tristelune you're kinda getting the point but not that it's an issue

If I need to work around a system that's forcing me to log in multiple times a day that's an issue

Traditionally most games I've played are able to work around a 2 log in scheduled, morning and afternoon, and occasionally a 3rd to tidy up before bed

That's YEARS of playing dozens of games, not one has penalised me as strongly as this game does

Take FKG morning I burn all my stamina and my 3 gathers, IF I could log in mid day I may be 2/3 more gathers done, this is a boon and I'm a tiny bit slower but it's not a massive factor, I log in the afternoon, burn stamina and 3 gathers, evening 1 last gather and burn any stamina if needed for over night to ensure none is wasted - sure if I got up at midnight I could get 2 more gathers but I think even a hardcore fun looses 1 or 2 while sleeping

2 big log ins is enough 3 better but not game breaking, I've done well on my 2.5

Here you seem to be expected to be able to log in every 2 hours or less

I judge games on 2 criteria how hungry are you for my time, and money - this one paying feels pointless as the rewards to $ ratio is abysmal, time while its short bursts it's the amount of them - its not a good system for how I feel a majority of players play

[wthvr]

Also, let's be serious for 2 seconds here. I play 20 minutes a day and you imply I'm hardcore player instead of casual? That's funny. "Hardcore player" is for people that have video game as their main hobby and who often spend more than 2 or 3 hours per day on video game. I only play HH as a video game (so, usually no more than 20 minutes). I'm as much a casual player as everyone playing this game. Just efficient on how I make use of my time.

as HH is your only 'game' you play, I can understand that you have a different understanding on how games in general work. this game is a idle game hence the only scale we can use on how 'hardcore' someone is, is to measure effective time use as there is absolutely no point in any activity in the downtime (as it gains no benefits for being online) - which means if you cover 18-20h of a day (your 17 logins are basically 19h worth of effective time spend) you are pretty hardcore for an idle game
compared to other idle games: hardcore players are the ones that get up at night on log in as soon as their stuff is off cooldown (energy/money/upgrades/army/whatever)
this is the equivalent of grinding XP/Currency in MMOs

casual gamers log in once MAYBE twice a day and thats it, sometimes they just dont play for a couple of days

this is the major point why a lot of people, including me, called you out - just different termonology/understanding. thats why your 20min statement, for me, is pretty misleading - I log in for a couple times each day, hence my claim to be one of the more active players, but you are WAY more active then I am. it does not matter how much time I spend each time I log it as, to stress it again, one cant do anything while your energy/money is on cooldown


now my 2 cents regarding trolls vs ToF - trolls literally only give you money. sure you can use it to upgrade your girls, but if you do the math it is a SUPER long time investment and even for 3 star girls it takes month - for 5 stars YEARS - to get back that money. Hence there is no point in going for money over XP as it will result in an effective money loss for the near future. given that there is nothing else to do with money, it is pretty obvious that it still is the best use for it if you have enough to get through the sporadicly implemented quests
especially with the upcomming changes to PvP there might be an actual point in levels as higher level means more stats (given that stat upgrades are limited in the shop), higher girl level and the possibility of higher level gear - sure we do not know what they are planning, but it should be somewhat save to assume that levels will benefit you
disclaimer: personal opinion and I understand why some people would go for trolls to accumulate money/'complete' their harem upgrades


Half my items are level 55 rainbow legendaries we got after 2.0 gone live cause I just like having balance stats (thou I wish they had more base 3 stats instead of crit chance and ego), other half are also rainbow legendaries thou higher levels as I slowly replaced the gifted ones with epic pachinko stuff.

why exactly would you ever go for rainbow items after ~50? everything outside your main stat is useless, crit is useless as you are capped and health does not outscale the immense stat loss from single-stat epics/legendaries. rainbow items would only make sense if they somehow make other stats matter much more with the PvP update and if you use level 55 stuff, I am pretty certain that the little stats they offer dont give you much either.
the only reason to still use the HH2.0 set is that 1. you literally didnt get any other epic+ gear for that slot since hh2.0 was introduced or 2. you see it as a waste of money as more stats do not really offer you much given that trolls and ToF are pretty much free anyway

[SamRei]

Ah, yes, so here we are! The real problem is not that this game requires too much time to play (I demonstrated mathematically that 20 minutes per day are enough). Your real problem is that you cannot connect to the game more than twice per day. But then, that's an issue by the player side, not the game side.

As a side note, I have a friend who tells me he connects 5 or 6 times per day, and he manages to be up to date with his girls (he doesn't go for 4 and 5 stars either, except Bunny, Red Battler and Juliette). But then, he gets between 4 and 5 girls per month, while I usually get 9+, hence why I have to play more.

Here we are again, I really shouldn't even bother answering you at this point, but I think I should make some stuff clear

First, you demonstrated nothing, your spirit maths is far away from any demonstration. Like every online game with energy refill over time, a good planned schedule can give you extra ressources, that's nothing new, special or impressive and didn't need a long explaination.

Second, I CAN lock in during the day, even from work, it's not about me, it's just that you don't make any sense, keep patronizing other people and are way to stubborn to see how far away you are from "normal" people. This game should be way more casual, it shouldn't be work, it's not like you are in some competition here.

Also, nobody cares about what your "friends" do, in the end it's a sample size far to little to have any meaning. Either way, the amount of ingame cash you need for 5 star girls is way to high, none of your "20minutesadayI'msoawesome" posts will change that.

That's my last answer on this one, good day and good riddance.

[Anzian]

The two main problems in this game, as I see it, are:

1. The scaling, or actually the lack thereof.
Affection and stars are on a scale, while the income is not, which will increase the gap between available income and funds needed to buy affection and stars. For stars 1 to 3 it is still doable, but stars 4 and 5 destroys the balance.

2. The waiting game!
This is actually the problem that makes people leave the game! When waiting for the next part of the quests, there is nothing to use energy on, which is a problem. Just logging in to battle a bit and collect cash from harem get boring really fast. Also, many contests needs us to use energy, which we can't!
So having something to use energy on while waiting is much needed. Preferably something that gives a bit of cash to help with the scaling problem and bring balance in things again.

[slaanesh]

It does feel quite intimidating to see how much credits are needed to improve the affection levels. And yes, it does feel, well, stupid to not be able to spend energy on anything. That equals income and experience loss. Highly irritating.

One more thing I have not understood is why, when buying gifts, it matters none how much you pay. All gifts give the same ratio of affection points per income spent. It'd make more sense, in my opinion, to get more when you pay more. Pay one for one, two for three, something like that.

And to beat a dead horse: please, for the love of god, do something about the odds of getting new girls when battling bosses. It is insane to grind for the duration of an event and have nothing to show for it. It really can't be that difficult to take into account the amount of times the player has battled to improve the odds.

[wthvr]

And to beat a dead horse: please, for the love of god, do something about the odds of getting new girls when battling bosses. It is insane to grind for the duration of an event and have nothing to show for it. It really can't be that difficult to take into account the amount of times the player has battled to improve the odds.

Yeah it sucks that event girls are so random. Usually I get both event girls within the first week, but this time I didnt get any so far. Given that you basically have to pay for each try as earnings from event trolls usually are 20-50% of what you would earn from your highest boss. So going through two weeks without any success just means that you lost multiple millions for nothing.

[Eversor86]

Actually weakest troll gives just a bit over 10% of what you get on average from actual best troll :].