Debuff Caps and skills

[Lizrake]

Hi there!

This for sure was already discussed somewhere in the forum, but I think that I suck with the search engine from this site. Searching on search engines didn't help me as well.
I understand how much the def down debuff affects your damage, specially the last 10% to reach the cap (from 40 to 50%), but my question is: How do we reach the cap?
I can see how it's done in water teams, since cthulu has a C-frame. But without her it seems that only D'Art with charles blast + a 20% A-frame can reach that.
The other teams seen to be stuck at 40%, the exception being dark teams that have SSR Amon + Sniper shot or Dark Amaterasu, leading to 45%.

I gues Yamata no Orochi may help with the last 10%, but I don't think that everyone will be running that eido, (I don't even have it).

So how do we break from the 40%?

[ohjel]

Hi there!

This for sure was already discussed somewhere in the forum, but I think that I suck with the search engine from this site. Searching on search engines didn't help me as well.
I understand how much the def down debuff affects your damage, specially the last 10% to reach the cap (from 40 to 50%), but my question is: How do we reach the cap?
I can see how it's done in water teams, since cthulu has a C-frame. But without her it seems that only D'Art with charles blast + a 20% A-frame can reach that.
The other teams seen to be stuck at 40%, the exception being dark teams that have SSR Amon + Sniper shot or Dark Amaterasu, leading to 45%.

I gues Yamata no Orochi may help with the last 10%, but I don't think that everyone will be running that eido, (I don't even have it).

So how do we break from the 40%?

Just look at the def down debuff section on the JP wiki at https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&depth=3&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=http://xn--hckqz0e9cygq471ahu9b.xn--wiki-4i9hs14f.com/index.php%3F%25E3%2583%2590%25E3%2583%2595%25E3%25 83%25BB%25E3%2583%2587%25E3%2583%2590%25E3%2583%25 95%25E5%258A%25B9%25E6%259E%259C&usg=ALkJrhixXhO43R1St8Z25SJF6lRFVFuc6g and figure out how to get to 50% with your team yourself. It has all the debuffs and the frames for them.

[Slashley]

So how do we break from the 40%?You don't.

There will be more C/D Def Downs in the future, such as Charles Blast you mentioned, but at the moment, that's all we have. Yamata no Orochi seems to be a slight increase in damage considering the stat loss and the long cooldown before you can actually use her.
Just look at the def down debuff section on the JP wiki at https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&depth=3&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=http://xn--hckqz0e9cygq471ahu9b.xn--wiki-4i9hs14f.com/index.php%3F%25E3%2583%2590%25E3%2583%2595%25E3%25 83%25BB%25E3%2583%2587%25E3%2583%2590%25E3%2583%25 95%25E5%258A%25B9%25E6%259E%259C&usg=ALkJrhixXhO43R1St8Z25SJF6lRFVFuc6g and figure out how to get to 50% with your team yourself. It has all the debuffs and the frames for them.The problem with that list is, it's one year ahead of us. Can you tell at a glance which ones are in our game and which ones are not?

EDIT: You know what, I'm bored, so why don't I go through those? The encyclopedia in Sanahtlig's toolbox (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PhfOAQk6EyK5l33ux_C4T-cexVIQp6D-_Hbd-OO1OmQ/edit#gid=1090858479) was made to give you a quick peek on all the upcoming stuff, so searching for "def- (C" is easy.
-10%:
Special Zeruel, July 2018
Special Caspiel, August 2018
Charles Blast, Relic Weapons will come April 2018
Awakened Satan, August 2018 (element specific)

-12%:
Atalante, May 2018, note that this guy is a pity SR from a raid event. So everyone will get her.
Yamata no Orochi, Eidolon summon effect, we have her!

-15%:
Fortuna, July 2018. Wasn't even listed in the JP wiki, probably because the chances of her doing the Def Down debuff is quite low. She's very, very random.
Special Tsukuyomi, December 2017 (element specific)
Mars, February 2018 (element specific)

-20%:
Thanatos, March 2018
Cthulhu, we have her!
Mammon, May 2018
P2W Wind Eidolon summon effect, March 2018
Kama, March 2018 (element specific, miserable success rate)
Special Mephistoteles, May 2018 (element specific)

-30%:
SSR Baal, August 2018 (element specific, only lasts 90s on a long CD, made viable-ish by Baal's self-skill reset ability)

Weapon Bursts:
Tiamat Bow, not usable by Arthur, April 2018
Hercules Relic Axe, June 2018, usable by Arthur too but would have no Weapon Skill whatsoever...
Hercules Relic Bow, June 2018, not usable by Arthur
Crom's Crotch SSR Hammer, we have this but I'm not sure is this Eidolon frame for us yet? Not usable by Arthur.
Wrath Bow, we have this but I'm not sure is this Eidolon frame for us yet? Not usable by Arthur.

Soooo yeah. We have absolutely fuck-all ways to reach -50% Def so far. Just Yamata no Orochi and Cthulhu. I think the two weapons we have now are still A frame, but feel free to test. Things will get better in the future, as the special versions of Caspiel and Zeruel are R quality and thus reasonably easy to get, though Zeruel is limited edition. Atalante will also be an option, but will be extremely hard to get if you miss the Raid event.

[LeCrestfallen]

Just give us god damn hercules already :/

[sanahtlig]

As ATK and DEF debuffs are a core element of strategic planning, my Elemental Team-building Guide (https://docs.google.com/document/d/19K_dU3rCief_ajPGS9YBuVdxXBYFyCGGXAxYYyK0jzg/edit#heading=h.uc8wgywtrfn) discusses options to reach the caps for each element. Many of them are in the future, but they're important to keep in mind when planning Miracle ticket usage.

[Slashley]

As ATK and DEF debuffs are a core element of strategic planning, my Elemental Team-building Guide (https://docs.google.com/document/d/19K_dU3rCief_ajPGS9YBuVdxXBYFyCGGXAxYYyK0jzg/edit#heading=h.uc8wgywtrfn) discusses options to reach the caps for each element. Many of them are in the future, but they're important to keep in mind when planning Miracle ticket usage.Wait, reading that again, the element- debuffs don't go over 50% when combined with Def Down? Well shit, I thought they stacked up on top of def-.

Since they're effectively "just" def- skills just for specific elements, I probably should put them on the list I just made. Pretty sure we don't have any yet though.

[sanahtlig]

Wait, reading that again, the element- debuffs don't go over 50% when combined with Def Down? Well shit, I thought they stacked up on top of def-.

Elemental defense down is clearly stated as counting towards the -50% cap in the JP wiki (source (http://xn--hckqz0e9cygq471ahu9b.xn--wiki-4i9hs14f.com/index.php?%E3%83%90%E3%83%95%E3%83%BB%E3%83%87%E3% 83%90%E3%83%95%E5%8A%B9%E6%9E%9C#e4619549)).

防御ダウン †
最終下限値-50%（属性耐性ダウン含む)

As you say, they're slightly weaker variants of class C DEF debuffs that don't help off-element kamihime.

[Lizrake]

Thanks guys! I though that maybe we already had more ways to reach the cap that I was not aware of. Since that's not the case we'll have to just wait.


Wait, reading that again, the element- debuffs don't go over 50% when combined with Def Down? Well shit, I thought they stacked up on top of def-.

That was going to be my next question, well, still helps a lot in single element teams though.



Kama, March 2018 (element specific, miserable success rate)


Kama seens to be really interesting. From what I read she has like 10% sucess rate, but if all her debuffs stick just her skills alone will give 40% def down. (A frame + Element frame, also extra debuffs). Makes me wonder how much mordred's Vicissitudes of Fortune would help her.

[Slashley]

So, now that Yukimura and Masamune are here, I'd like to point out that Wrath Bow is Eidolon frame (or C, or X, but certainly not A or B).