Accessory Quests

[sanahtlig]

Accessory Quests have now been introduced with the Saint Nicholas event. I gave ranks 3 and 4 a try today since Water is my main element.

General layout:
Stage 1: 3x trash mobs
Stage 2: Mid-boss with no rage meter
Stage 3: Final boss

For Water, you'll want to bring overdrive gauge extension (Black Propaganda). I encountered a high debuff resist rate, so Mordred is recommended. You'll need overdrive extension for the R4 final boss regardless of element. The R3 final boss's raging overdrive can be bypassed with a sufficiently powerful Full Burst.

The trash are dangerous, especially in Rank 4. For water, the top mob has an AoE ATK buff. Kill it first and don't let it get the move off. The bottom mob has a high-damage single-target attack. Try and mitigate it. The second mob has an AoE that shouldn't do too much damage with ATK down debuffs. If it gets buffed, you're in serious trouble.

The Water mid-boss's overdrive attacks 8x for low damage. It's not too dangerous, but you'll want overdrive extension on it.

The final boss has an extremely dangerous raging overdrive, but it can be completely mitigated by Awakened Gaia. In R3, a Full Burst should be sufficient to nearly empty the Rage gauge. In R4, you'll likely be eating some overdrives.

Since this is a multi-stage fight, make sure your debuffs are ready each time for the next stage. You'll have to go all-out on the R4 trash because their HP is very high, and it's prudent to do the same for R3.

I easily cleared R3 despite forgetting to bring Sniper Shot. R4 is stupidly hard, and I had to use 2 elixirs to clear it. The first wipe was caused by both affliction resistance down and Black Propaganda missing the top trash mob, allowing it to buff the second mob twice. The second wipe was caused by the final boss's raging overdrive and debuffs falling off. On my second attempt, I was able to clear without an elixir. Once again, debuffs falling off on the final boss almost wiped me.

Drops from the second R4 attempt:
https://i.gyazo.com/4d5e62bbe62c5a0164ac9a8b3eaba444.png

For your first clear of R4, you'll be awarded an SSR accessory. If you can clear it, it's a nice prize. Beware that multiple wipes can wreak havoc on your debuffs and make the fights much harder.

[Slashley]

Despite maining Thunder, I barely was able to beat T3. Well, barely is probably an overstatement since nobody died and I just autoed the first wave, but all five were almost dead by the end of the run. Like, sub-1000 HP dead. Luck helped.

I didn't try it, but I am pretty sure T4 is entirely out of the question without heals. I guess that means looking at Sol when Miracle Ticket hits us...

[Aidoru]

Despite maining Thunder, I barely was able to beat T3. Well, barely is probably an overstatement since nobody died and I just autoed the first wave, but all five were almost dead by the end of the run. Like, sub-1000 HP dead. Luck helped.

I didn't try it, but I am pretty sure T4 is entirely out of the question without heals. I guess that means looking at Sol when Miracle Ticket hits us...

Probably shouldn't have auto'd it. I just ran a rank3 with my thunder team and didn't have any problems with it on manual. I did lose 1 hime during the final stage because of the boss' raging overdrive 1shot one of my himes even with Raiko's damage reduction skill up and using double Yggdrasil, which was also my only source of heals. I might have been missing an atk down debuff, since I used it on the previous stage. As long as you save a full burst for its raging overdrive it's pretty easy. Its regular overdrive just increases its rage meter with no damage and she has a very long stun duration.

All final bosses seem to be the same for each element, which only differ between ranks.

Rank4 on the other hand, I am very reluctant to even try, I might later for the Dark and Light accessories when they up.

Seems the goal as of right now is to get the SSR accessories which have up to 3 effects that drop from rank4 quests (i think?), or you can grab the easier SSR rings which only have 2 effects from the shop and the clear. It seems these effects are randomized too.

A little worried this might burn through my break limit mats if I start running rank3 (and eventually 4) 3 times a day.

[BakaHentai]

Despite maining Thunder, I barely was able to beat T3. Well, barely is probably an overstatement since nobody died and I just autoed the first wave, but all five were almost dead by the end of the run. Like, sub-1000 HP dead. Luck helped.

I didn't try it, but I am pretty sure T4 is entirely out of the question without heals. I guess that means looking at Sol when Miracle Ticket hits us...

Meanwhile, with rainbow..... lost Sol but all 3 attempts of stage 4 were fairly smooth, 1 attempt was close though. You might have been able to start clearing stage 4 now if you kept Mastema's staff, but it's a defender and those weapons are always useless right? Guess not.

My water team was also able to clear all 3 stage 4 attempts without an elixir. And the best part, the only heals my water team had was Joan's regen. Too bad I didn't record those water team runs though. I'm very confident the rest of my teams can do the same, especially considering water is one of my weakest elements.

8247

8248

8249

[Slashley]

Meanwhile, with rainbow..... lost Sol but all 3 attempts of stage 4 were fairly smooth, 1 attempt was close though. You might have been able to start clearing stage 4 now if you kept Mastema's staff, but it's a defender and those weapons are always useless right? Guess not.I have slvl20 Ygg and slvl16 Mastema. Which you'd know if you actually read my posts, but eh.

The difference between us is that one of us has heals, and one of us does not.

[sanahtlig]

Healing is of variable importance. In one run, I got no healing drops at all. In another, I got 3 of each type.

But yes, the main difference there is the team composition, not the build strategy.

[BakaHentai]

I have slvl20 Ygg and slvl16 Mastema. Which you'd know if you actually read my posts, but eh.

The difference between us is that one of us has heals, and one of us does not.

That means you'd have access to Andro, which is what I was implying.

[BakaHentai]

Healing is of variable importance. In one run, I got no healing drops at all. In another, I got 3 of each type.

But yes, the main difference there is the team composition, not the build strategy.

The point I was making, is due to my many options of stat sticks + their SL 20s, off-element himes are far less likely to die on me. Doesn't matter how good the hime is if they die too fast. And my water team cleared stage 4 fire without any healing drops and only Joan's regen to rely on.

[bigblackcock]

'cause it's more interesting when the battle isn't going smoothly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnixZK-Pez0

[Aidoru]

Just tried a rank4 light acc quest and it went a lot better than I anticipated despite the fact I got only 1 single target potion drop, which I used on my Soul on the very first stage. Only other heals were Joan's regen and Yggdrasil as a sub. Joan had Black Prop as ex. Dark himes were Satan, Beelze, Lu Bu and Balor. Had Tsukuyomi and Krampus on sub, forgot to take her out but was ok.

Make sure you do look up the 1st and 2nd stage of each before you attempt, so you know the priority kill order. For light accessory quest, it was bottom, middle then top for last.

Pegasus wasn't too bad. Had a full burst ready and used it right away and built it plenty before I moved to the final stage.

Final boss has a pretty large HP pool and takes very long to get it into rage. I was rather worried whether or not to full burst early so I just saved it the entire time until it went into rage. DoTs also can come in handle for this boss since they don't affect the rage meter, so you can get quite a nice amount of extra damage before getting into rage. I would say I took out about 60% of its HP before it went into rage.

Regular overdrive hits 3 at random and for me only dealt 1k damage to each with 3 atk down debuffs (-20% A Satan, -15% B Lu fu and -10% Eidolon Yata/Jorm). Using Joan so I can mitigate even more. I could have probably eaten less of them if I had full burst and build it back up before raging but I wasn't sure how much free turns I would have to build up my burst before getting into rage.

Took one raging overdrive and without Joan's damage reduction. It did 7-8k damage with the same debuffs as above up, on 3 random himes, hit my Balor twice and Satan once. It took out my Balor and almost took out my Satan, had less than 100 hp left. Though by then it was nearly dead so my team more or less cleaned up with a couple turns of auto attack.

Didn't get a single SSR accessory as a drop, aside from the clear. Will try 2 more times later and see how those go.

Might swap out some of my eidolons for effects, Jack Frost's ability could help save several turns.

[Yolodesu]

Jack Frost's ability could help save several turns.

It literally never works. Even with RST down

[Aidoru]

If it works even once, it's already better than Sphinx's ability, who I only use cause her high ATK, and since I have Balor. Also using Jorm and Yata when I really only need one considering how long...

[nonsensei]

Cause who needs debuffer KHs on dark team?:rolleyes:

https://youtu.be/dsMaUolPF-8

[BakaHentai]

No one. Debuffs are for scrubs. :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WBA5B7s7ps&t=

[VeryVoodoo]

No one. Debuffs are for scrubs. :D

Are you calling yourself a scrub then? I fast-forwarded to the 3rd stage just to see if there really were no debuffs on, and it looked like a full page of debuffs. Hell, 3 of your 4 kamis were SSRs with excellent debuffs, all of which were used. On top of the mord debuffs and eid debuffs of course. For a second, I thought I was actually gonna see a debuff-less run. :eek:

Unless of course, your comment was just sarcasm. :p

[Aidoru]

How rare are SSR accessories from rank4 quests? Cause I just cleared the light one 3 times and didn't get a single one. /sadness

[VeryVoodoo]

How rare are SSR accessories from rank4 quests? Cause I just cleared the light one 3 times and didn't get a single one. /sadness

I've heard from dmm players that the chances are pretty low overall. JP Wiki says they can drop from rank3 acc quests too, but I'm assuming it's probably even rarer there. Though one of your union mates did get a SSR brooch from tier 3 today. ;)

[Aidoru]

I've heard from dmm players that the chances are pretty low overall. JP Wiki says they can drop from rank3 acc quests too, but I'm assuming it's probably even rarer there. Though one of your union mates did get a SSR brooch from tier 3 today. ;)

Very jealous. Not sure if I'll even have enough runes to get enough for my light girls if the drop rate is really low. I might go and farm rank3 instead since it's just that less stressful.

[sanahtlig]

How rare are SSR accessories from rank4 quests?
I've done 6x rank 4 quests and have gotten a total of 2 SSR drops. I've also done 3x rank 3 quests and got 1 SSR drop from that.

I didn't have time to post my experiences with the Wind and Light element quests, so might as well do that here.

Wind element trash all uses ATK buffs, and so does the mid-boss. Strong DPS is highly recommended. Since my DPS is weak, I brought along AoE combo attack down (Triton) to prevent lethal combo chains, as well as Dispel. Ironically, I went into the final boss without debuffs and the boss promptly triple ATK KO'd a kamihime.

The bottom Light element trash uses AoE poison, while the center uses a straight AoE. The top uses a 2-hit single-target attack which isn't too threatening. The mid-boss uses an AoE that prevents healing. I had Poseidon and Gaia, so I had a hard counter for all of this.

I've started holding Mordred's Outrage on the final boss unless I need it to supplement a Sniper Shot miss. This allows me time to refresh my 7-8T CD debuffs, even with the lag between turns, and prevents an unlucky Dizzy proc from causing Gaia's damage mitigation to miss. As long as I can keep debuffs up, I can reliably clear without elixirs or even deaths.


Took one raging overdrive and without Joan's damage reduction. It did 7-8k damage with the same debuffs as above up, on 3 random himes, hit my Balor twice and Satan once. It took out my Balor and almost took out my Satan, had less than 100 hp left. Though by then it was nearly dead so my team more or less cleaned up with a couple turns of auto attack.
Sounds like your Light team has more DPS than my chimera team of Mordred (Sniper Shot), Poseidon, Gabriel, Gaia, Sol. Final boss takes forever to kill. I think I eat somewhere around 4 raging overdrives. Maybe more? The upside is that the team is basically invincible when debuffs are up.

[Unregistered]

How common are SR drops at layer 3/4? Given how uncommon SSR drops seem to be, you may have to resort to leveled up SR accessories as your exp fodder. Sure, 2 lv 1 SRs will give the same exp as 1 lv 1 SSR, but if you want to be gem efficient in leveling an SSR...
lv 27 SR gives 407 exp, lv 1 SSR gives 400 exp; both before same element bonus. And getting an accessory to lv 27 in the first place takes 2305 exp itself. 8 lv 1 SRs of the same element takes care of that. So that's... 9 SRs of one element + 800 gems to approximate 1 SSR as exp fodder. Swap out some of those SRs with R's if you don't mind raising gem cost and if R's are common enough drops. It's basically also 2 R's for 1 SR.

[Shieun]

How are you guys so lucky with the SSRs drop? I'm brimming with a lot of jelly and I've yet to see one from clearing tier3/4

and some of those tier 4 are just straight cancer.

[Unregistered]

Actually, what's the loot distribution in general look like for layer 3/4? There can be some creativity in mixing and matching Ns and Rs in setting up exp fodder, depending on what gem costs are acceptable.

[Shieun]

on top of my head, tier 3 will give you 1-2 gold box, while tier 4 will give you 2-3 gold box (and probably higher chance to drop platinum)

[sanahtlig]

I've gotten 15 SR drops over the course of those 6x Rank 4 and 3x Rank 3 runs. I didn't note which dropped from which rank, but it seems like I get 2 SRs or so from each Rank 4 run. Rank 4 is completely worth it if you can reliably clear it.

[Shieun]

Unfortunately reliably clearing it doesnt happen for me except when I have elemental advantage >_>

and even then I'm still surprised that my fire team can clear the wind tier 4 with no elixir, while my water team need 1 elixir.

[BakaHentai]

Are you calling yourself a scrub then? I fast-forwarded to the 3rd stage just to see if there really were no debuffs on, and it looked like a full page of debuffs. Hell, 3 of your 4 kamis were SSRs with excellent debuffs, all of which were used. On top of the mord debuffs and eid debuffs of course. For a second, I thought I was actually gonna see a debuff-less run. :eek:

Unless of course, your comment was just sarcasm. :p

Yeah it was just sarcasm lol

[sanahtlig]

Dark trash is as follows:
Imp: 3 orbs, AoE attack
Guillotine: 2 orbs, single-target attack
Banshee: 1 orb, single-target Charm (no damage, high proc rate)

I killed the Imp first. None of the attacks were particularly dangerous with ATK debuffs active. I countered the Banshee with Poseidon's debuff protect.

Mid-boss: 4 orbs, high-damage single-target attack

I countered this with Gaia. I missed a Guard once and got hit for 2-4k or so.

Overall, Dark was probably the easiest and most straightforward of the elements so far.

[nonsensei]

It's saturday, so time for my main team to shine. pun intended

https://youtu.be/KC3G--5c6hM

[Aidoru]

Since my light team is my strongest, this was very easy for me, even if I don't have Sol yet. <br />
<br />
Banshee's overdrive is just silly. <br />
<br />
2nd stage boss was pretty hilarious my first attempt, I didn't...

[sanahtlig]

New tool: Accessory Enhancement Calculator (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PhfOAQk6EyK5l33ux_C4T-cexVIQp6D-_Hbd-OO1OmQ/edit#gid=947971438)
To address questions about accessory enhancement, I've made a tool that models that accessory enhancement process, allowing you to see the result without committing your precious accessories and gems to oblivion. More importantly, it allows you to optimize the upgrade process to use fewer gems, as upgrading higher level items requires exponentially more gems. Therefore, you'll want to enhance in the fewest batches possible.

[Aidoru]

Sunday's accessory quest is pretty dang dangerous. You still get the trash, the mid boss and the last boss but their elements are randomized by stage, trash mobs won't be mixed. Encountered thunder trash, water mid boss and thunder final on my attempt using my light team. Ended up using an elixir. Will probably just run rank3 for the rest my uses.

I'm not sure if it's worth the gamble if you don't have an extremely strong dark or light team to be honest. The risk of encountering an elemental weakness. Unless you're a whale who can use an elixir every run if needed. Though you could always get lucky too.

[sanahtlig]

Sunday's accessory quest is pretty dang dangerous. You still get the trash, the mid boss and the last boss but their elements are randomized by stage, trash mobs won't be mixed. Encountered thunder trash, water mid boss and thunder final on my attempt using my light team. Ended up using an elixir. Will probably just run rank3 for the rest my uses.
...

Guess what I encountered? Thunder trash, Thunder mid-boss, and Thunder final boss--all with my Water team on my very first attempt. That's 3/3 elemental disadvantage against an element we haven't even encountered yet. I actually managed to clear it with 1 Elixir. Debuffs falling off is actually what killed me, ironically. They got out of sync due to a bad transition, misses, and general panic. I also had some bad RNG with my Soul taking some focus-fire. I kind of wish I recorded it, as it was the most epic battle I'll probably ever face.

[Blueguy]

I did rank 1-3 this time since the reward is jewels. I went with light and rank 3 took forever. No one went down, but it took forever since the boss was also light.

[OtherGuy02]

How much harder would people say rank 4 is compared to rank 3? I haven't tried any ranks 4 matches yet as I didn't feel it would be worth it if the difficulty jump is the same as it is between rank 2 and rank 3. That and I also don't have elixirs to throw away every day to do them especially if it's going to take more than one.

[sanahtlig]

How much harder would people say rank 4 is compared to rank 3? I haven't tried any ranks 4 matches yet as I didn't feel it would be worth it if the difficulty jump is the same as it is between rank 2 and rank 3. That and I also don't have elixirs to throw away every day to do them especially if it's going to take more than one.
If you can't easily clear Rank 3, you'll have no chance in rank 4. Even the rank 4 trash is potentially lethal, though this varies by element. You need superb damage, excellent mitigation, or Gaia to clear the final boss regardless of element, because 1 Full Burst and a volley of skills / auto-attacks typically won't be enough to end Rage. That's before even considering the various things that can go wrong and derail an attempt, such as bad transitions (no debuffs ready) and Black Propaganda misses.

[bigblackcock]

was nervous and had my family entering my room and out during the recording, so forgot to use abilities here and there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZufF_G_FgY

[VeryVoodoo]

Cleared rank4 successfully 3 times today (was my first attempt) :D
The first week I cleared ranks 1-3 each day, since my OCD would've kicked in to leave those clear-rewards unclaimed I guess, so this was my first attempt at the rank 4s. xD

It was definitely very challenging, but not impossible like I expected it to be for a F2P player like myself. Which makes me happy to know that it's still possible to clear end game content even as a F2P. :o

Though I suspect not all the other elements' rank 4s will go as smoothly as this I suppose...

[sanahtlig]

Fire is one of the easier ones, and that's not just because my main is Water. The trash all have the same identical ability that can be easily ignored. One ATK buff isn't sufficient to make the trash dangerous, and the overdrive damage is low. Compare to Wind, where the buffs stack and can get out of hand very quickly, or Water, where an AoE overdrive can be buffed by a single character's AoE ATK up. The mid-boss is similarly straightforward.

[Slashley]

Fire is one of the easier ones, and that's not just because my main is Water.--Well shit. I was all happy yesterday for my Water team just BLASTING through T3 with absolutely no issues whatsoever.

So anyway, the first week I was busy with x-mas and stuff, plus OCD wanting to clear T1-3 so that those rewards won't hang around there. Did my first T4 today. Water too, so it was my main team - Thunder - against it.

Damn. No heals, so needing to bring a healer Soul, thus not having debuffs really hurts. Brought Sniper Shot since -20% Def to all in wave1 ought to be really good, but that meant no Black Propaganda. And damn the main boss during Rage was really, really painful... didn't help that my only Def debuff got resisted once.

Still cleared it without Elixir, but it was just three near-dead Hime left. I'll do two more runs later today, not feeling particularly confident about clearing.

Sol might solve much of my problems as she'd allow me to bring Mordred with Ambush, but on the other hand, Sol would be very vulnerable. Running Mii would solve that, but holy crap, 16% damage loss? Ouch. Well, don't Sol anyway yet, so questions for later.

[sanahtlig]

Sol might solve much of my problems as she'd allow me to bring Mordred with Ambush, but on the other hand, Sol would be very vulnerable. Running Mii would solve that, but holy crap, 16% damage loss? Ouch. Well, don't Sol anyway yet, so questions for later.
I run Sol in my Water team and she does fine. I'm running with Gaia though, and she mitigates the actually dangerous attacks. My highest moment of danger is when I -only- have 40% damage cut available. Of course, the real problems are when something goes wrong, like debuffs missing. Then you're screwed. Gaia also contributes to healing, but a lot of the Thunder SSRs self-heal so maybe that will compensate?

[fucka]

I run Sol in my Water team and she does fine. I'm running with Gaia though, and she mitigates the actually dangerous attacks. My highest moment of danger is when I -only- have 40% damage cut available. Of course, the real problems are when something goes wrong, like debuffs missing. Then you're screwed. Gaia also contributes to healing, but a lot of the Thunder SSRs self-heal so maybe that will compensate?

Now sol is one of the most useful kami farming accessory for all elements :D I still remember, that u said sol is not worth for miracle ticket. :p

[bigblackcock]

barely made it XD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykIbRmOGKk0

[mustafa]

i did R4 three times today (total 4 time so far) and not a single SSR drop wtf?
ive got only 2 SR each run.

[Slashley]

I run Sol in my Water team and she does fine.--I'm mostly just scared of bad RNG where everything targets her in a single turn and she just dies with her ~5k HP. But yeah, experience will teach better over time, I guess.

Anyway, runs#2 and #3 didn't go nearly as badly. Not sure why. I don't think I played any better, and RNG didn't feel like it favored me nor conspired against me. Not a single 30s Thor Paralyze landed, but that's just the norm, ha ha!
Anyway, jesus christ the first wave is terrifying when you don't kill the first mob in two turns. In one run it resisted Def Down, so it lived with a sliver of life. Oh boy fighting the atk buffed mobs was fun.

Now I just need to figure out what to actually do with all these Accessories that don't even fit into my inventory. I guess I'll need to buy more space sooner rather than later. For now, making level 30 R sets to start seems like a good idea - it costs fucking nothing and immediately gives you ~46% of the benefits when compared to SSRs.

[Unregistered]

i did R4 three times today (total 4 time so far) and not a single SSR drop wtf?
ive got only 2 SR each run.

I've run it 3 times since acc started and not a single ssr drop in 27 successful runs.

[fucka]

I've run it 3 times since acc started and not a single ssr drop in 27 successful runs.

only 27? not-seeing any SSR for month is standard, and even a SSR dropped, 2 buffs of all 3 buff stats could be shit. so it's not better than a SR with 2 atk buffs.

[sanahtlig]

Now sol is one of the most useful kami farming accessory for all elements :D I still remember, that u said sol is not worth for miracle ticket. :p
I said players should start with Sol. And I recommend Sol for Thunder teams in particular.


Anyway, jesus christ the first wave is terrifying when you don't kill the first mob in two turns. In one run it resisted Def Down, so it lived with a sliver of life. Oh boy fighting the atk buffed mobs was fun.
I plant Black Propaganda on it. One of my wipes last week was when it missed.

[nonsensei]

A bit late, but here's my water run.. with light team coz both my thunder team & grid aren't cut for clearing t4 acc quest.

https://youtu.be/fHXh53L_BCo

Oh, and forgot about my sunday run. Cleared all 3 sunday quest without elixir, so it seems like my light team can handle any t4.

https://youtu.be/iLk9YAYy_5I

[Aidoru]

I'll have to try a healer set up later, since I finally got Sol.

[bigblackcock]

wind element:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLb_mncFNCg

[Unregistered]

At this point, I'm less worried about being able to clear an R4 stage than I am worried about not having enough materials to start it or break limit new girls I get in the future.

[Slashley]

Uh, what does the "+atk" actually do? Is it character attack?

After much suffering (fuck Wind Accessory quest mobs), I got a double attack SR. I'm puzzled about is it worth spending resources on this thing, since the attack value itself is hardly any better than what Rs offer, yet it requires a ton more resources to get to max level.

[J4fusion]

I've run it 3 times since acc started and not a single ssr drop in 27 successful runs.

I manage to get one from Stage 3 during Wind.... After my first battle of Rank 4, I wasted my materials and 2 Elixirs with no SSR Accessory other than the Reward. I had better and easier luck with Rank 3 knowing that I have a hell-a-lot more Bones than Runes.

[nonsensei]

And finally managed to record a thunder accessory run. My main team evolved meanwhile.

https://youtu.be/1NMb1DkEkoM

[Slashley]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RHrzwgXqWM
I made a video of the the only element I can safely handle. Not sure if it's because my Water team is damn good, or because Fire is the easiest, or because my Water grid is in really good shape. Or because of a combination of all of the above.

I handle the pre-Rage boss really slowly, since that's the safest way. Andromeda generally heals more than what the boss dishes out, so I'm just chilling and waiting. With Water, I guess I could rush it too though. But why risk it?

[sanahtlig]

I made a video of the the only element I can safely handle. Not sure if it's because my Water team is damn good, or because Fire is the easiest, or because my Water grid is in really good shape. Or because of a combination of all of the above.
So you're Thunder main with multiple optimal SSRs but your Water team is strongest? That says a lot about Thunder's current viability.

(Also Fire really is the easiest, but that's just a matter of the trash being weak).

[Slashley]

So you're Thunder main with multiple optimal SSRs but your Water team is strongest? That says a lot about Thunder's current viability.--I know right. Though, the only optimal SSR I have on Thunder is Raiko. Thor is a blast to play with, but certainly not optimal. But at least I can crush Reiki raids like nobody's business, sheesh!

And in Water, I have Ryu-Oh... really, most Water SSRs are just absolutely bonkers in general. And their SRs are crazy too, Triton and Belphegor are just damn good.

There is a good chance that I'll be swapping to Fire or Water in second Miracle ticket. Time will tell.

[sanahtlig]

And in Water, I have Ryu-Oh
Running Dragon King and Sol in your Thunder team might make it actually work. Then you could run Andromeda and Sniper Shot and actually mitigate damage. Of course, at that point you almost might as well run a Water team.

[Wpmz]

Yeah thunder has some issues and they're not really getting a major upgrade until mammon. In comparison water has tons of insane SSRs so it looks pretty bad. If you have dragon king then you can build a pretty strong water team around it without any other SSR.

[sanahtlig]

Running Jack of Frost on a Fire quest is another factor that tilts the balance in Water's favor in this particular instance. Running two of them cuts damage by -20%, multiplicative with ATK down debuffs and elemental advantage. That's a lot of damage reduction, and could easily be a decisive factor.

[Blueguy]

Yep. When all the stars (abilities) aligned yesterday, I took a rage burst and it was under 3k per hit.

[Slashley]

Running Dragon King and Sol in your Thunder team might make it actually work. Then you could run Andromeda and Sniper Shot and actually mitigate damage. Of course, at that point you almost might as well run a Water team.I'm not sure about Ryu-Oh. I mean, by herself, yeah, if I use Andromeda with Sniper Shot. But both with Sol AND Ryu-Oh? That's... gonna hurt my damage output a whole ton, no?


Did run with Sol today (thanks Miracle ticket!), was notably easier. Still not a breeze, but considering that I lost 2 Hime throughout three runs, can't complain.

[sanahtlig]

I'm not sure about Ryu-Oh. I mean, by herself, yeah, if I use Andromeda with Sniper Shot. But both with Sol AND Ryu-Oh? That's... gonna hurt my damage output a whole ton, no?
I do most of my runs with the following group: Mordred (Sniper Shot), Cthulhu (used to be Poseidon or Triton), Gabriel, Gaia, Sol. It gets the job done, though admittedly I rely heavily on Gaia during the boss's rage phase. But with Thunder's damage output your Rage phase should be shorter than mine, so hopefully you won't have to eat 3 overdrives like me. It's really just a race to get off a second Burst.

With Joan + Sniper Shot, Raiko, Sol, and Dragon King, you'll have 2 damage cuts and the ability to run -70% ATK (with Leviathan and/or Yatagarasu). That should be enough for an endurance strategy. Dragon King might not fare so well against Thunder, which is sadly what you need to clear the most. Also, your debuffs will be missing like crazy if you don't have Sphinx's affliction resistance down applied. If overdrive gauge extension misses, it's over. Sphinx's debuff is on a 9 turn cooldown, so you'll have to work quickly to have it ready for the next debuff salvo without eating undebuffed attacks.

[Slashley]

-- It's really just a race to get off a second Burst.Whoah? Eating even two of that terrifying Burst scares me. Though, I don't think I've ever had more than -55% Atk (Raiko, Outrage, Sol, Yatagarasu), so going for more would certainly cut the damage taken by a whole ton. By one third, in fact. Still... aiming for an endurance battle against THAT Rage Overdrive scares me.

My aim is to save full Burst and all abilities for the Rage phase, to get hit zero times while she's in Rage. For Water this is really easy thanks to Belphegor (-30% Rage meter, WHAT? Who thought that'd be a good idea on a SR?!), but most of my teams can handle it okay-ish. Thanks to lack of Oberon and powerhouses, my Wind really struggles. And I'm not sure about Dark, since I have no plausible Light team. I think I was out on the first day of Light Accessory quests thanks to x-mas, and last week I did T1-T3. I guess I'll find out how well I can do off-element in a few days...

I wish that I could bring Gilgamesh's Rage meter skill... ... wait, I think I can on my Water team. Belphegor + Ryu-Oh should do well as long as I can clear wave1. That's an instant 44% Rage meter reduction, if I understand how stuff works right. Is that enough to instantly get past Rage with -32%
Def will be seen in a few days.
--
Sphinx's debuff is on a 9 turn cooldown, so you'll have to work quickly to have it ready for the next debuff salvo without eating undebuffed attacks.That's not the only long cooldown that I'm used to running with - Outrage is 8, both Ryu-Oh's A debuffs are 8, Yamaraja's B debuff is 9 and Ryu-Oh's Black Propaganda is 10!

So I've learned to rush through turns ASAP, but I still constantly lose the debuffs on these specific ones. I'll get more used to it over time I guess.

[Slashley]

Double post, but FUCK.
FUCK Wind R4. I'm sick of this bullshit. I think this is going to be the last time I bother doing it, I'll just stick to R3. I don't have that many Wind Runes anyway since Wind Disaster is annoying to run on my default Thunder team.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6o5KmghRmI
2:00 to 5:00 is really the entire point of the video. Though you might wonder about the seemingly random -40% used at 11:57 - it's just there since I might've needed to delay the Rage push to the next turn, and thus it was important to give Acala a better chance to live through an auto-attack. Anti-Rage is literally Acala's entire reason of existance, even though I fucked up the skill order on that too. Oh well.

[sanahtlig]

I don't have that many Wind Runes anyway since Wind Disaster is annoying to run on my default Thunder team.
I farm Daily Experts for runes. Spending all my AP on dailies, I can usually farm 9+ runes a day. Although Disasters will give you the materials you'll need for Relic weapons. I don't anticipate farming outside of Water and maybe Wind though.

[Slashley]

I always rather spend my AP on current events. And poor Wind gets fucked over by this, since typically events start either on Tuesday or Thursday. So either way, there's ALWAYS an event going on during Wind days. Wind is the only element where I struggle to have my arbitrary stockpile goal of 14 Fangs per element.

[bigblackcock]

my first attempt in dark layer 4-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSipBp93y5o

[sanahtlig]

I've uploaded a run of the Dark Accessory Quest Rank 4 to show a mitigation build in action.


https://youtu.be/MrF4UyV8sgY

[Slashley]

Holy shit.

Again, I'm a week behind most on this Accessory stuff since x-mas took away quite some days from me, plus I wanted to get T1-T3 done on all elements first just because of reasons.

So today, was my first T4 Sunday. Well, I didn't want to run T4 on Thunder just because Wind bosses are ASS, plus lack of debuffs. So I ran Andromeda with Sniper Shot, Ryu-Oh, Sol. The plan was just to endure and outheal, while using Triton's combo- to keep single target assaults away and clearing last boss Rage meter with OP Belphegor. Felt off to put Shiva in the backrow, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

Wave 1, Fire. Wow, easiest trash with no tricks against their weakness?
Wave 2, Light. With double healers, this can feel like a bad thing, but with -70% Atk you hardly need heals to begin with.
Wave 3, Thunder. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

I had full Burst remaining after Pegasus, and it was fucking terrifying to see that it was less than 25% Rage bar increase. It didn't help that debuffs kept getting resisted, despite Sphinx not getting resisted once.
I somehow managed to do it without Elixir, but jesus christ. I don't think I could've done it if I had gotten Thunder wave2 as well.
...

Guess what I encountered? Thunder trash, Thunder mid-boss, and Thunder final boss--all with my Water team on my very first attempt.--I tip my hat to you, good sir. I tip my hat.

Even though I'm sure your Water grid is notably better than mine (97%+14% here now), that's still just god awful to fight.

[sanahtlig]

Wave 1, Fire. Wow, easiest trash with no tricks against their weakness?
Wave 2, Light. With double healers, this can feel like a bad thing, but with -70% Atk you hardly need heals to begin with.
Wave 3, Thunder. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

...

I somehow managed to do it without Elixir
Well, if your Water team can handle that, it can likely handle any of the Rank 4 Accessory Quests except for Thunder. Congratulations. Now you just need to figure out to clear the element you actually need gear for.

[Slashley]

Why not all of them? I play this game waayyy too much, after all. Gonna make Water (total of) 130%+ first, I guess. Despite two SRs, the team is just so damn balanced that it's fun to play with.

In other news, also fought Thunder wave1, Water wave1 and Water wave3. All of which were almost as terrifying as Thunder wave3. I guess the whole "same element resists debuffs a lot" thing is true. I could've been just unlucky with a sample size of this size, but.

[LeCrestfallen]

God damnit, failed twice the acc lvl 4 quest today .... in both runs atleast two himes got killed by random tripple hits focused by focusing fire only on them X_X

[Slashley]

God damnit, failed twice the acc lvl 4 quest today .... in both runs atleast two himes got killed by random tripple hits focused by focusing fire only on them X_XAaaand that's why combo- is extremely valuable.

It's just really hard to make teams where your Soul can afford to run Asmund's combo-. And it's a super rare ability on Himes, just Triton and Yamaraja for now. And the latter has single-target only with a long CD (9).

[LeCrestfallen]

eidelons ~~ but i can't have one for each stage ready. Oh hades and Satan, when will your awakening come to me.

[sanahtlig]

Why not all of them? I play this game waayyy too much, after all. Gonna make Water (total of) 130%+ first, I guess. Despite two SRs, the team is just so damn balanced that it's fun to play with.
Water basically has a counter for everything, if you know what your foes are, so it's well suited to a variety of challenges. But if your debuffs miss, things can get ugly quickly. Also, there will be an ATK debuff cap of -50% soon. Without Cthulhu and Snow Raphael, who provide a means to counter overdrives without relying purely on ATK down cheese, Water teams relying on utility SRs will struggle in top difficulty content.

I don't think I can handle Thunder with my Water team yet, not without powered-up accessories at least. Maybe if I had a perfect team. But I don't really need to. I just need to clear Water quests (namely, the final boss) all the time, and the others most of the time to progress at an optimal rate.

[bigblackcock]

I've uploaded a run of the Dark Accessory Quest Rank 4 to show a mitigation build in action.


https://youtu.be/MrF4UyV8sgY
having 3 different elements and deal this much damage make me wonder what will happen once you use water lilim in this formation.
also,this battle made me think that maybe i should replace diana for cthulhu and use ambush as extra skill instead of sniper shot.
that way i'll have-
Defense- Ambush (20% frame A), mordred skill (10% frame B) and cthulhu (20% frame C)- 50% in total
Attack- cthulhu/raphael (15% frame A), mordred skill (10% frame B) and sol (20% frame C)- 45% (can be more when jorm is summoned in battle)
also, mordred's black propaganda can work well with raphael's reduce charging orb and cthulhu's absorb charging orb making it longer for a boss to use her overdrive skill.
and even if they won't have diana's attack buff, the extra defense debuff will make up for it and they'll deal more damage anyway.
but, what makes me a little uneasy about it, cthulhu won't get a bonus at all- no eido and no weapon, so no attack or HP boost.
so if she get targeted it's kinda gonna be a problem.

[Yolodesu]

having 3 different elements and deal this much damage make me wonder what will happen once you use water lilim in this formation.
also,this battle made me think that maybe i should replace diana for cthulhu and use ambush as extra skill instead of sniper shot.
that way i'll have-
Defense- Ambush (20% frame A), mordred skill (10% frame B) and cthulhu (20% frame C)- 50% in total
Attack- cthulhu/raphael (15% frame A), mordred skill (10% frame B) and sol (20% frame C)- 45% (can be more when jorm is summoned in battle)
also, mordred's black propaganda can work well with raphael's reduce charging orb and cthulhu's absorb charging orb making it longer for a boss to use her overdrive skill.
and even if they won't have diana's attack buff, the extra defense debuff will make up for it and they'll deal more damage anyway.
but, what makes me a little uneasy about it, cthulhu won't get a bonus at all- no eido and no weapon, so no attack or HP boost.
so if she get targeted it's kinda gonna be a problem.

For me, replacing Diana with Dark Amon result in a small damage loss on neutral element. But its still only -45% def and i guess it will change depending on your stats.
However, loosing sniper shot atk debuff on first wave might be painful. And even if you end up with a damage increase on boss, you'll still loose -10% atk. Not talking about outrage cooldown compared to sniper shot.

Still worth trying, but i'm not sure about the result.

[sanahtlig]

having 3 different elements and deal this much damage make me wonder what will happen once you use water lilim in this formation.
When Gaia or Sol die, I'd lose all my damage and wipe. That's what would happen.

Do note that I ran with a +60% Fafnir. That increased damage, though I've run with Garuda and that works as well, although a bit slower.

Replacing Diana and Sniper Shot with Cthulhu and Ambush sounds interesting, but that sacrifices -10% ATK. There's a big difference between taking 35% and 45% damage, so keep that in mind. But post ATK debuff cap, that sounds like a plan--especially for those who don't have Raphael.

[sanahtlig]

For me, replacing Diana with Dark Amon result in a small damage loss on neutral element. But its still only -45% def and i guess it will change depending on your stats.
For CaptainNoobCN's situation, replacing Diana + Sniper Shot with Cthulhu + Ambush would increase normal attack damage by 10%. That's assuming all debuffs land; the lower the base level of DEF down, the less advantage additional DEF down provides.

Replacing Diana with Dark Amon, assuming Sniper Shot is used with both, would result in a tie. That's a bad idea because unlike Cthulhu, Dark Amon doesn't bring additional utility to the team, and just has lower HP.

[mustafa]

Do note that I ran with a +60% Fafnir.
so next step is Belial

[sanahtlig]

so next step is Belial
Well no, because that wouldn't buff my Water team.

[Yolodesu]

I disagree with this part. Even if Chtulu is stronger on her own, in that situation its less obvious. Mad cultism dupe with Raphael's abilities, making it less interesting than it should be. <br />
So...

[sanahtlig]

The comparison isn't Cthulhu vs. Dark Amon. It's Dark Amon vs. Diana.

[Yolodesu]

The comparison isn't Cthulhu vs. Dark Amon. It's Dark Amon vs. Diana.

Well, kind of. You're explaining why it would be fine to replace Diana with Chtulu, but not with Amon. And i simply disagree with that.

Imo its a bad idea for both.

[bigblackcock]

When Gaia or Sol die, I'd lose all my damage and wipe. That's what would happen.

Do note that I ran with a +60% Fafnir. That increased damage, though I've run with Garuda and that works as well, although a bit slower.

Replacing Diana and Sniper Shot with Cthulhu and Ambush sounds interesting, but that sacrifices -10% ATK. There's a big difference between taking 35% and 45% damage, so keep that in mind. But post ATK debuff cap, that sounds like a plan--especially for those who don't have Raphael.

when will attack debuff cap will be implemented in our version anyway?
i may try it out when it happens using both her and raphael in team (unless i find other good light kami instead of her)

[sanahtlig]

when will attack debuff cap will be implemented in our version anyway?
Was February in DMM. Sustain builds will be hit hard, but if they've been spending Miracle tickets wisely, players should be able to transition into stronger builds with the second Miracle ticket in April.

[sanahtlig]

I used the damage numbers in my video to estimate the unmitigated damage of the Rank 4 boss's Rage Overdrive: about 15k x 3 hits. When the ATK debuff cap of -50% is implemented (probably in February or early March), maximum mitigation from ATK debuffs will be 7500 damage; 1-shots on characters without HP buffs or not topped off will become a dangerous possibility. Stacking that with Joan's -40% damage cut will mitigate that to 4500; still enough to 2-shot characters in many cases. Compare that to 2700, which is possible now with -70% ATK and allows a character to potentially take 3 hits and still live. Sustain builds will be massively nerfed, so keep that in mind as you develop your team. Builds with Gaia should still be viable, but those relying on Joan may be overwhelmed.

[sanahtlig]

To shave some time off clears, I subbed out Gaia for Poseidon. This gets clear times down to 10-11 min. My strategy here is to rely on -70% ATK to hold damage in check until Rage. When the boss overdrives, it kills 0-2 characters, causing Gaia to be subbed in only as needed (since she lowers damage by 20%) and rendering me invulnerable to the next Overdrive. This should work as long as I get my Burst off before the boss Rage Overdrives. One nice feature of this setup is that it allows me to get full ATK debuffs on all the trash. For Wind I'd use Triton instead of Poseidon to prevent buffed combo attacks.

I made a couple mistakes in this attempt. I was planning to Burst the mid-boss with -40% DEF to ensure debuffs were off CD for the boss, but accidentally slapped on the last debuff, so I held my Burst. Probably could've gotten a faster clear if I'd done that right. When I got to the boss I preemptively unloaded Fafnir, but should've waited and kept Sphinx in reserve, as the boss then resisted Mordred's affliction resistance down.


https://youtu.be/abUGgssv3KY

[Slashley]

*sigh*
Sunday is here again, and so, the random waves.

Against my Water team, wave1, Thunder. Nice. What a pain in the ass. Killed Triton too.
Wave2, Dullahan, with -70% Atk it wasn't much trouble. Will probably oneshot somebody once -50% cap comes along though.
Wave3, Thunder again. Come on.

Despite not having Triton's combo-, everything was going fine, until it was time for the Rage push. Time refresh debuffs!
Sphinx, miss. Sphinx debuff was still up too.
Andromeda Sniper Shot, miss miss.
Ryu-Oh A Atk lands, A Def miss, Black Propaganda miss. Wow, thanks +4% Affliction from Accessories!
Sol's C Atk, miss.
Belphegor back-up B debuffs, needed to wait for old Sniper Shot to expire... miss miss. For this one the Sphinx debuff was gone.

.... really. REALLY.
Yeah, that was a wipe. -30% Atk, -0% Def and no Black Propaganda in Rage phase against anti-Element was just not doable, not even with Belphegor's OP Rage gauge down skill. Even if Triton's back-up A Atk debuff would've been available, it probably still wouldn't have been anywhere near enough.

[sanahtlig]

Sphinx, miss. Sphinx debuff was still up too.
There's actually no guarantee that Sphinx's debuff is as strong as Mordred's. While we assume it is, most eidolon effects are actually much weaker than the ones provided by Souls and SR+ characters.

And in fact, according to the JP wiki (http://xn--hckqz0e9cygq471ahu9b.xn--wiki-4i9hs14f.com/index.php?%E3%82%B9%E3%83%95%E3%82%A3%E3%83%B3%E3% 82%AF%E3%82%B9), Sphinx's skill is indeed weaker than Mordred's. Seems to have a lower accuracy too. So you rely on it at your own peril.

But no doubt elemental disadvantage provides a penalty to debuff accuracy as well. It was the combination of Thunder + Sphinx that did you in.

[Slashley]

Such is life.

Also, Sphinx is weaker? I could've sworn I've used Mordred to overwrite it, AND the other way around. But I think Balor was stronger than Mordred... oh well. Sphinx is still a "free" Eidolon to use due to her very high statline. Bringing Mordred into randomland would probably not work out all too well, I need those second heals badly.

Second run was zero problems. Since 2/6 elements are bad to encounter for all non-Light/Dark teams, I suppose I'll encounter one-ish difficult stage this time. I swear to god if I get 2 or 3 tough ones, I'm going to... I'm going to... I'm going to shake my fist angrily at some random direction, because that's totally going to help!

[Slashley]

Double posting because of testing.

So, I bullied poor Gluttony around a bit, and it seems that the order is indeed:
Balor > Mordred > Sphinx
Sphinx was able to overwrite Mordred's debuff 0/3 times. Note that this CAN be just extremely bad luck, as the Union affliction buff doesn't apply to Eidolons as far as I know. Mordred being able to overwrite Balor's debuff 0/3 times should be a done deal however, as I don't think it's possible for that to miss with 30 affliction buff + Balor's affliction buff already active.

I don't have Astraea so I can't test her.


In other news, my third run was Thunder, Thunder. And an unlucky one at that, since poor Belphegor got outright butchered right at the start. The mid-boss being Thunder didn't help either, and Sol bit the dust as well. She was focused quite heavily in Wave1 and low on health with no pots in sight. Anyway, with my team in shambles, I deduced that a wipe was inevitable against everything except Fire... ... and Fire was the third boss. Just barely inched a win there, thanks to Enkidu (my second sub-in) getting focused really hard for multiple turns and biting the dust just before Rage, allowed the resurrected Belphegor to apply her OP rage gauge down. I don't know if that run was overall lucky or unlucky, but I do know that that's the first time I ever see Andromeda's resurrect saving a wipe.

And yes, I did shake my fist into the general direction I assume the servers to be at.

[sanahtlig]

Also, Sphinx is weaker? I could've sworn I've used Mordred to overwrite it, AND the other way around. But I think Balor was stronger than Mordred... oh well.
Regens of all strengths used to pseudo-overwrite each other. When it comes to status effects, there's no guarantee that a stronger one will block a weaker one.


So, I bullied poor Gluttony around a bit, and it seems that the order is indeed:
Balor > Mordred > Sphinx
Well, that's useful to know.

[Slashley]

Wasn't Regen a bit of a special case? I think for everything else - even Charm - a weaker one would always just "miss". Not sure how Awakened Thor and Balor Paralyze interact though... hmm. Questions for later. Will probably test at Sloth.

Anyway, I did test debuff- while you were writing that~

[Slashley]

I am the only person who cares about blogposting in this thread anymore, it seems. Oh well.

Anyway, since I lately finally perfected (*) my Thunder Grid and have 140% (**) total power, plus using Dartagnan is finally possible thanks to Gluttony Gun, I thought it'd be a good time to test how Thunder is meant to be played. ... well okay, it's not meant to be played like this just yet, but this will be THE thing in Mammon era, so might as well get used to it now, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5dtr7ilFwc
Honestly? Lack of Mordred impacted the run far less than I expected. The gear and Sol carried hard, so who needs Blind/Charm/DoTs/Black Propaganda. This was my third run, first one was with Kirin and second with 55% Thunderbird. So a basic 40% Thunderbird test was required. On a sidenote, the Kirin run was funny, as I think poor boss would've died straight from Rage if I had remembered to buff up before Burst.

(*) Mastema Staff is "only" slvl16, and fuck wasting any more resources on that 1890 atk piece of garbage. That might change once Mastema gets her second reprint. I want to know what the secondary skill will be on the damn Staff.
(**) If you count Pride SSR as 6% base, which isn't technically true. Actual Assault value is 104% + Pride effect.

[sanahtlig]

Honestly? Lack of Mordred impacted the run far less than I expected. The gear and Sol carried hard, so who needs Blind/Charm/DoTs/Black Propaganda.
You're relying heavily on elemental advantage here. Try running a Thunder team without Mordred on Monday against Thunder and we'll see how that goes. I suspect you'll eventually get a repeat of your Sunday run where debuffs miss at a crucial moment.

[LeCrestfallen]

running them with andromeda as soul and Sol to boot. basicly just facetanking everything except last phase where i burst through the enrage with my dark grid. Tried it with joan and regen, but the overall healoutput was to low.

[Slashley]

You're relying heavily on elemental advantage here. --Yup.

But well, Thunder doesn't really self-manage all that well just yet. Still months away from that.

[sanahtlig]

According to multiple users, debuffs only have 2/3 duration in Accessory Quests (120s). That's why debuffs drop off unexpectedly, which is the cause of most of my wipes. Mob buffs however get the full 180s duration.

[Slashley]

According to multiple users, debuffs only have 2/3 duration in Accessory Quests (120s). That's why debuffs drop off unexpectedly, which is the cause of most of my wipes. Mob buffs however get the full 180s duration.Hmm. In my latest video, Raiko applies her debuff at 4:24 but it's still there at 6:35 attack, though it drops off at the 6:39 attack.

Interesting. I always thought it was just a perception issue. I guess they're forcing rushed play. I wonder if the same thing happens in Guild Orders?

[sanahtlig]

It's not clear that the shortened debuff duration was a design choice, and supposedly it was eventually removed in the DMM version. The "implementation" is odd, because the debuff applies with a listed 180s duration, but resets to 120s after the next attack (if I remember correctly). Could be that the devs were toying with a reduced duration during testing, but neither removed the change nor properly implemented it.

[Slashley]

Sigh. Fuck Sundays.

As usual, doing runs with my Water team.
Three runs, three wipes.

Run 1:
Water trash, resists all around. Sol dies.
Thunder wave2. I've had lots of wave1 and wave3 Thunder before, but not this guy. Is he even fucking POSSIBLE to beat with Water? This little fucker hits everyone for 4k every 3 turns with -50% Atk. I think I could've handled him with -70% Atk, but in two weeks, that's not a thing anymore. Anyway, killed him with like two characters left, just wanted to see what wave3 would be.
Thunder wave3. Yeah, fuck you too.

Run 2:
Thunder trash. Resists everywhere. Belphegor dies.
Water wave2. Resists everywhere. Still, this one isn't all that threatening as long as RNG doesn't make the Overdrive hit a single person, so no problems.
Thunder wave3. Would've been fine, got my perfect transition into Rage phase aaaaaand... resist A Def, resist B Def, resist Black Propaganda. Well, I guess that's it then, without Belphegor's OP -30% Rage bar there's 0% chance of clearing the Rage phase now. I tried, was about 30% away from completing it. That's exactly what Belphegor reduces.

Run3:
Thunder trash.
Thunder wave2.


You know, I can't help but to feel that the ONLY way to do Sunday quests is with Light/Dark teams. But building a Light team is completely impossible for me, and for some reason my Dark team can't even handle Friday quests properly. With Nyarl/LuBu/Osiris/Sol I have -30% Def -50% Atk, double heals, and my Soul can bring combo-. But yet, there's just absolutely no damage output. Sure, I'm at 84% Assault only so plenty to improve on, but it shouldn't be THAT bad. I don't understand it.

[bigblackcock]

so, kitty tried to clear layer 4 in my acc using my fire team-
wave1- fire
wave2- fire
wave3- fire
she managed to win, but it's far from being random here XD

[sanahtlig]

You know, I can't help but to feel that the ONLY way to do Sunday quests is with Light/Dark teams.
I'm clearing just fine with my Water team (though I haven't run up against Thunder recently). You're running with a bunch of SRs and don't even have Cthulhu, so some trouble is to be expected, especially if you get thrown up against Thunder all the time. Like I told you last time, Mordred's debuff is very important for consistency if you don't have elemental advantage or elemental resistance down. Also, the way I think of it, I'm running Sundays for the chance of Water SRs/SSRs. If the 3rd stage is Thunder, I don't need to clear it. I just need to clear the 2 stages before that to check the element.


Thunder wave2. I've had lots of wave1 and wave3 Thunder before, but not this guy. Is he even fucking POSSIBLE to beat with Water? This little fucker hits everyone for 4k every 3 turns with -50% Atk. I think I could've handled him with -70% Atk, but in two weeks, that's not a thing anymore.
I cleared it without deaths on that very first Sunday (Thunder on wave 1 also). You must be running without Black Propaganda, which isn't advisable. With only -50% ATK, I might be able to kill him before he uses the 2nd Overdrive on turn 9 (should be possible since the first Overdrive will speed up the 2nd Burst). If not, bringing Snow Raphael would delay that to turn 12. That's definitely enough time to kill it. Alternatively, running SSR Nike and Shiva instead of Sol and Gabriel might boost DPS enough to clear by turn 9. Gaia might also be a better choice than Sol for Accessory Quests with ATK capped at -50%.

[Aidoru]

I'm going to assume those are Sunday rank 4s you're failing. If so, you should just run rank 3s because you can still get ssr accessories from them.

As for your dark team not being able to handle light rank 4 accessory quest, that's rather unusual. Not sure what soul you're using but I' suggest Joan with Black Propaganda, Andromeda if you swap out Sol. You don't need the -combo rate ex skills.

I only have 67.5% assault, 10% pride, 22% defender with Jack as my main eidolon with any friend's dark eidolon on my dark team and I have no problems clearing it. Using Andromeda+Black Prop, Lu Bu, Satan, Hades and Beezlebub. That's only 35% atk down and def down, -45% atk with eidolon. Take note that I was still clearing before I got Hades, in which I had Balor, and I was using Joan of Arc+Black Prop.

[Slashley]

-- You must be running without Black Propaganda, which isn't advisable.--I have Ryu-Oh and Sphinx. Yes, Sphinx is weaker than Mordred's debuff, but it is unknown by how much. Also, Mordred's version of Black Propaganda most likely has a higher base chance of success than Ryu-Oh's. Still, it's not like I'm running entirely without them...

But yeah, having Cthulhu would truly be a huge boon. Not only for the added damage from C Def (and extra reliability from having an extra Def debuff), but also from the extremely powerful Overdrive Reduction.
-- You don't need the -combo rate ex skills.I swear to god, every single time I run without combo- the very first thing that happens in wave1 is that all three mobs do double/triple attack on the same character and it's instant KO. Well, except against my Thunder team which has so much Defender stat they laugh it off, usually.

Anyway, I just hate running without it as long as I can help it. If I'm lacking B or either A, I'll bring that over it, but.
I only have 67.5% assault, 10% pride, 22% defender with Jack as my main eidolon with any friend's dark eidolon on my dark team and I have no problems clearing it.--There's no Pride stat, by the way. If you have slvl20 in a Pride weapon, it's just flat out 10% Assault plus the Pride base effect.

[sanahtlig]

I actually just got the Thunder stage 2 boss in my final run today. With -50% DEF she lasted 5 turns. With -70% ATK, the overdrive did a max of 2500 damage. No resists. I used an extra damage skill at the start because you got me all alarmed about her, and that skill pushed her early before debuffs were ready...

[sanahtlig]

But yeah, having Cthulhu would truly be a huge boon. Not only for the added damage from C Def (and extra reliability from having an extra Def debuff), but also from the extremely powerful Overdrive Reduction.
It only lands like half the time. That's something worth noting. Meanwhile her -DEF lands >95% of the time it seems, and seems more reliable than Sniper Shot. That's likely the difference between my clears and your wipes (well, and all the resists you get that I don't).

[Slashley]

Hey, don't blame me! We both know just how big the difference is between -50% and -70% Atk! The moment you landed all four Atk debuffs is when you could have sighed and relaxed.

If only my Sol had been alive... :cry:

[sanahtlig]

Hey, don't blame me! We both know just how big the difference is between -50% and -70% Atk! The moment you landed all four Atk debuffs is when you could have sighed and relaxed.

If only my Sol had been alive... :cry:
I actually didn't expect to do that much damage with elemental disadvantage. Usually a Burst with -40% DEF allows for a somewhat smooth transition. I used -50% DEF and expected to do less damage than usual. I think the combination of DoTs (threw these on also) + Pride effect threw off the usual balance (I'd actually gotten beat up by the Light trash prior since some ATK debuffs missed).

[Slashley]

Speaking of Light trash, isn't that the second hardest first wave?

The third mob casts AoE poison, which is outright terrifying. If you don't have Sol, you're basically fucked. Even if you have Sol, you're on a timer to kill the damn thing before the second Overdrive. That shouldn't really pose anyone a problem since they can't have elemental advantage over anyone, though.

As if that wasn't enough, the second mob casts WATER damage on everyone. It's not like anyone is running against these mobs with Thunder teams (at least until Mammon era), so that basically negates elemental advantage damage reduction. Plus, fucks over Fire mains. Even though the second mob is terrifying damage against against them, they still NEED to kill the third mob first... or die horrendously to poison.


Well, Wind trash is the hardest IMO. They're not that tough if you just wait their buffs out... but the simple fact that you basically NEED to wait their buffs out is reason enough to call them the hardest.

Third would be Water, I guess? That first mob alone deserves it, since you need to kill it super fast. Not so fast if you have multiple Dispels, but that's an unlikely story. Or if you're willing to wait again.

The rest aren't anything special, but probably goes Thunder-Fire-Darkness. Darkness is just pitiful because of the third mob who does 0 damage every second turn, although the Charm is a minor annoyance and drops your DPS a bit.

[Kureru]

Speaking of Light trash, isn't that the second hardest first wave?

The third mob casts AoE poison, which is outright terrifying. If you don't have Sol, you're basically fucked. Even if you have Sol, you're on a timer to kill the damn thing before the second Overdrive. That shouldn't really pose anyone a problem since they can't have elemental advantage over anyone, though.

As if that wasn't enough, the second mob casts WATER damage on everyone. It's not like anyone is running against these mobs with Thunder teams (at least until Mammon era), so that basically negates elemental advantage damage reduction. Plus, fucks over Fire mains. Even though the second mob is terrifying damage against against them, they still NEED to kill the third mob first... or die horrendously to poison.


Well, Wind trash is the hardest IMO. They're not that tough if you just wait their buffs out... but the simple fact that you basically NEED to wait their buffs out is reason enough to call them the hardest.

Third would be Water, I guess? That first mob alone deserves it, since you need to kill it super fast. Not so fast if you have multiple Dispels, but that's an unlikely story. Or if you're willing to wait again.

The rest aren't anything special, but probably goes Thunder-Fire-Darkness. Darkness is just pitiful because of the third mob who does 0 damage every second turn, although the Charm is a minor annoyance and drops your DPS a bit.

Fire trash is noteworthy because they attack when using their buff skill. This is more threatening to my fire team than the Light trash water AoE. I don't have many attack debuffs so it's ~4000 damage each, which is terrifying and can kill someone important right off the bat.

Comparatively I find wind to be the easiest, but that's probably because I main fire.

[sanahtlig]

Speaking of Light trash, isn't that the second hardest first wave?

The third mob casts AoE poison, which is outright terrifying. If you don't have Sol, you're basically fucked. Even if you have Sol, you're on a timer to kill the damn thing before the second Overdrive. That shouldn't really pose anyone a problem since they can't have elemental advantage over anyone, though.

As if that wasn't enough, the second mob casts WATER damage on everyone. It's not like anyone is running against these mobs with Thunder teams (at least until Mammon era), so that basically negates elemental advantage damage reduction. Plus, fucks over Fire mains. Even though the second mob is terrifying damage against against them, they still NEED to kill the third mob first... or die horrendously to poison.


Well, Wind trash is the hardest IMO. They're not that tough if you just wait their buffs out... but the simple fact that you basically NEED to wait their buffs out is reason enough to call them the hardest.

Third would be Water, I guess? That first mob alone deserves it, since you need to kill it super fast. Not so fast if you have multiple Dispels, but that's an unlikely story. Or if you're willing to wait again.

The rest aren't anything special, but probably goes Thunder-Fire-Darkness. Darkness is just pitiful because of the third mob who does 0 damage every second turn, although the Charm is a minor annoyance and drops your DPS a bit.
Light gives me problems because they have a much higher resist rate than other trash (Poison in no issue for me since I bring Poseidon and Sol). Wind trash also resists a lot. If all my debuffs land, trash doesn't give me issues. Wind trash is special because it's reliant on timing and RNG. Waiting for buffs to fall off after every cast is not a good strategy. With no debuffs at all they're hard to kill and deal a lot of damage. That means enduring at least one round of buffs. If two of them get off an ATK buff, and they triple attack you during that interval, someone's going to die. So dealing with Wind trash effectively essentially means being able to kill 2 of them in the first 3 rounds. Meanwhile, Water trash is only dangerous if you can't kill the buff mob before it overdrives. Unless both DEF down and overdrive extension miss (which has happened to me), that shouldn't happen.

[Slashley]

Fire trash is noteworthy because they attack when using their buff skill. This is more threatening to my fire team than the Light trash water AoE. I don't have many attack debuffs so it's ~4000 damage each, which is terrifying and can kill someone important right off the bat.I paid attention to this now that you said it, and truly, they hurt a lot more than I expected. I can just entirely ignore them thanks to double Jack Frosts, elemental advantage and a blanket -40% Atk down. Without those, yeah, they'd hurt. Well, I forgo the -20% Fire Res for double Reiki on Sundays, and I can still ignore them, but you get the idea!

Not sure how I'd rank the trash waves then...
-- Waiting for buffs to fall off after every cast is not a good strategy. With no debuffs at all they're hard to kill and deal a lot of damage.--It isn't? Because they don't hurt much if they're not buffed, if you ask me. Yes, it takes BLOODY FOREVER to kill them when you wait 3 minutes after every few turns, as without Def debuffs you won't do much damage during those few turns. But as long as there's two of them buffed, I'd consider letting them attack - even when Atk debuffed - suicide.

I guess if you can land -60% on both and combo-, then you're dealing with 140% damage, compared to 100% if you'd wait? That may be worth it for the extra damage you deal on them. If your healers can handle the extra load.

[Unregistered]

I'm really tired of running acc quests as they've become very tedious that I sometimes question if I should just do rank 2's so I can auto them to get them out of the way for the day but I still want a chance at a SSR. Has anyone tried to auto battle any element rank 3 acc quest and succeed?

I would think many could easily auto battle any rank 3 stage 1 and 2 with little adjustments some elements, like selecting the bottom target before you auto, but how stage 3? I think if you can just get the boss to use its rage overdrive only twice and have decent subbed kamihimes, it'd be doable?

[BigBobs]

I'm really tired of running acc quests as they've become very tedious that I sometimes question if I should just do rank 2's so I can auto them to get them out of the way for the day but I still want a chance at a SSR. Has anyone tried to auto battle any element rank 3 acc quest and succeed?

I would think many could easily auto battle any rank 3 stage 1 and 2 with little adjustments some elements, like selecting the bottom target before you auto, but how stage 3? I think if you can just get the boss to use its rage overdrive only twice and have decent subbed kamihimes, it'd be doable?

I actually have been doing that for a while (stage 2 auto) because getting my SSR maxed blew through pretty much my entire gem stock. Can't even limit break 3 my Awakened Susanno.

[LeCrestfallen]

only r3 accesorry i can autobattle is light, since i focus almost entirely on dark ~~
doing r2 accesorry daily except for light/dark since i need the stuff for upgrades on r4

[Aidoru]

Tried auto battling dark rank3 with my light team and went surprisingly well with no death. Ate 1 raging overdrive but 4 of my units have over 10k hp so it survived with a slither and didn't have to worry about a 2nd raging overdrive before it died. Not sure about the other elements but I'll try on Monday. Sundays I run rank4 since I don't need to use any mats to initiate, which has become an issue for some elements already.

Also still yet to get a single SSR light accessory drop since implementation.

[bigblackcock]

so i got this 1 in shiny chest:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/403031192808718337/407591410829623306/unknown.png
attack and def sounds ok i guess, but the gauge redution seems..meh
should i keep it or better to use as material?

[sanahtlig]

I'm hoarding all SSRs for the time being. Can always use as an enhancement material for a better SSR later.

[bigblackcock]

I'm hoarding all SSRs for the time being. Can always use as an enhancement material for a better SSR later.

good point, and after that using some SSR accessories at level 20-30+ will help to enhance the better accessories.
since that accessory have attack on it i've thought to give it to tyr, but with this def maybe brahma or raiko would be better.
ramiel is out of the question, she is just there for now for her attack buff and damage to all enemies so it can help me in wave 1 of layer 4 lol

[Slashley]

Meanwhile, my today's haul:

1x 1 skill SR:
HP

5x 2 skill SR:
Rage Gauge, Rage Gauge
Rage Gauge, Rage Gauge
Rage Gauge, Ability+
Rage Gauge, Rage Gauge
Rage Gauge, Ability+

9 Rs with an ability:
Rage Gauge
Ability+
Rage Gauge
Ability+
Status res+
Def+
Rage Gauge
Def+
Def+
Status res+

And 4 skill-less R and 14 N.

Wow.

You know, if this was an isolated case, then it wouldn't be so bad. But I don't even know when was the last time I found a useful accessory. I'm not asking for much - either a R or a double skill SR. Hell, at the moment, I'd probably take even a double-skill SR where one (1) ability is useful. Well, I did find a Drop Rate+ R yesterday. Not sure if I want to enhance that. Maybe I should, it'd work as a stat-stick until my Thunder Himes would be loaded with Accessories. Hah, I so far have one (1) "good" Thunder Accessory - a Def+ Affliction+ on Thor. So lacking a mere 11 Accessories from having my front line loaded with Accessories. How many weeks have I been running these? A month now? So four?

This is literally sucking the enjoyment out of the game. Every single day, every single goddamn day I spend like 45 minutes running these damn things. They're mostly just boring and tedious once you get the hang of it, but you can't freaking auto it or you get slaughtered. 45 minutes of a boring, tedious fight, and for what? A bunch of utter garbage. Day after day. Week after week. Well okay, it's not 45 minutes every single day since I don't bother with T4 on Wind (fuck Wind mobs), Light and Dark days, but T3 isn't short either.

I'm at 297/300 inventory space now, and the very best thing I have to enhance? A Water Affliction+ SR Ring that doesn't have a second ability (no Ring does). I GUESS THAT'S SOMETHING. Such a goddamn waste since it takes well over TWICE the amount of effort for next to no gain in stats compared to an R Affliction+, but what can I do? Not a single other Affliction+ has dropped for a week, maybe two.

Not a single Atk+ has dropped for a week, maybe two.
Not a single Double+ has dropped for a week, maybe two.

Maybe I should just buy a SSR Ring or two and hope that at least one of them would have one (1) useful ability out of the two they have. I don't know.

[Aidoru]

The accessory shop doesn't restock weekly so you should buy the ones you want as you should have more than enough if you play regularly. I would assume they restock every month, or at least I hope it restock at all. I've been able to get enough acc p to buy 3 SSR accs.

As for what I actually get, I honestly just use anything that's SSR and any SR with atk↑. It is extremely unlikely that I'll ever find a SSR acc with x3 atk↑ let enough for all the needed himes and whatever other combinations. So if it has at least 1 atk↑, that's good enough for me. Although anything outside of my light team, I don't even bother to use SR or lower accessories.

[Blueguy]

And here I thought it'd restock daily. Shit.

[Slashley]

Complaining always helps.

Although the store-bought SSR had garbage on it, today's Water run provided me with not one, not two, but THREE atk+ Rs. Fuck yeah. About fucking time. Was going to enhance all of those to 30, buuut... then I found a SR with Affliction+ and double+. Doesn't get much better than that, so focused on that instead.

Ryu-Oh finally hit 6% Affliction and has a bonus of 2% double attacks. Nice.
And here I thought it'd restock daily. Shit.Even if it restocked daily, you can't really buy things from there very often with the 2500 point/week cap. It's mostly a "oh crap I'm missing one SR fodder for element X" store.

[sanahtlig]

Although the store-bought SSR had garbage on it, today's Water run provided me with not one, not two, but THREE atk+ Rs. Fuck yeah.
Don't get too excited. An R with ATK+ is barely better than an SR equivalent with no useful stat on it at all. Most of them will have at least one stat that is marginally useful.

I found today that with 3x maxed affliction rate up and Mordred's affliction resist down, ATK/DEF debuffs will still occasionally miss on same-element. It's pretty rare and seems about as likely as affliction resist down missing. Which is good news, since even if affliction resist down misses you still have a good chance to land the others.

[Slashley]

Don't get too excited. An R with ATK+ is barely better than an SR equivalent with no useful stat on it at all. Most of them will have at least one stat that is marginally useful.Is it? I find that odd since the stat increase from R to SR is really small. I guess the impact from the skill is very small then (outside of Affliction+).
I know there is a calculator for it, but I haven't bothered to toy around with it yet.

Either way, Rs are extremely cheap to enhance. Getting at least the first four Hime per element geared up in basic Accessories should be well cost-productive. Especially since even remotely useful SRs are so bloody hard to come across.

[sanahtlig]

Either way, Rs are extremely cheap to enhance.
Getting an SR to the same level as an R takes exactly the same amount of resources.

And yes, I have a tool that allows you to compare the effect of accessories on damage and endurance. Remember that ATK+ is only 3%, and since it's character attack it's only worth about 1.35% damage per buff. A full loadout of SSRs with 3x ATK+ each (9x total) will only increase damage by 24% (including the effects on base ATK rating), and only for that character. The benefits are much more meager than people tend to realize. Compare to affliction rate up, which can have substantial team-wide effects with even 3 buffs on a single character.

[Slashley]

Getting an SR to the same level as an R takes exactly the same amount of resources.--True. And that would yield 2% compared to 3%, probably mostly covered by the base stat difference. However, you're then stuck with an Accessory you can never again enhance - not without an absolutely ridiculous Gem cost. Not that you need to since the performance is already roughly the same, but... whose autism will allow a non-max level item?
-- A full loadout of SSRs with 3x ATK+ each (9x total) will only increase damage by 24% (including the effects on base ATK rating), and only for that character. --24% is absolutely insanely huge, though. We're talking P2W Eidolon level of increase.

... of course, not only that Belial and friends are team-wide, but you're also basically never going to find even a single triple Atk+ SSR. Much less three. Even less ones for the whole team. Not that you'd even want to use them over Affliction+ Accessories on your debuffers.

But still, let's not call 24% as "only." You put that on the carry of your team - best case SSR Cybele - and your team is a now a monster.

[Unregistered]

I haven't seen a single affliction rate up acc drop. Lots of affliction resist.

Has there been any testing on the double attack rate modifier? If its +2% to base double attack rate that sounds like it could be quite useful, but if its x1.02 then that's pretty garbage (i'm betting the latter unfortunately...)

Also I assume the +% attack is calculated the same as weapon skill attack%, and not multiplicative, anyone know for certain?

[Aidoru]

I can only see affliction rate up being useful if you're someone who only plays only 1 or 2 element teams or for a hime that has an affliction that misses a lot like Thor or someone using dizzy. For someone who plays all elements, you'll almost always have elemental advantage and having that increases your affliction rate (from what I've read), so missing afflictions is not a common ordeal to worry about for those that always have elemental advantage, even less so if you're using Mordred. So as someone who does, I can't see affliction rate up accessories being much help as I rarely have to worry about missing important debuff nor do I never rely on any low rate afflictions.

[Slashley]

Missing even one debuff is simply unacceptable. And the hit-rate even with elemental advantage is still far, far from 100%. Might be 100% when you combine elemental advantage with Mordred's debuff+, but that itself can miss.

As such, if a Hime has even a single debuff, you really, really, REALLY should use Affliction+ as the Accessory.

[Unregistered]

The +double effect on accessories is probably additive to the base 8% (10% for awakened SSRs). Other listed +double/+triple effects on the wiki seem to work additively (the numbers they give make no sense if they were multiplicative). That said, it shouldn't be too hard to test, right? If you can stick 3 +double effects on one kamihime, you're comparing to see if the double attack rate is 14% or like 8.48%.

[Slashley]

-- That said, it shouldn't be too hard to test, right? --And, pray tell, how would you measure the double attack rate?

The thing is, proper sample size is a bitch. Can it be done? Yes. But it unlikely anyone can be arsed to actually do that.

[Unregistered]

Well, we don't necessarily have to do that when DMM players already do. No need to re-invent the wheel and all.
Basically, we just have to assume that japanese wiki contributors are consistent in how they write this stuff. IE, the assumption here is that the "+2%" in the accessory page operates the same as the "+X%" in the buff/debuff page.

[sanahtlig]

For someone who plays all elements, you'll almost always have elemental advantage and having that increases your affliction rate (from what I've read), so missing afflictions is not a common ordeal to worry about for those that always have elemental advantage, even less so if you're using Mordred.
If you're running Mordred (or an equally effective affliction resist down effect) with elemental advantage, then yes, affliction rate up shouldn't be necessary. But for everyone else, affliction rate up is clearly the best effect available from accessories. It's not even close. Having your DEF down miss is soul crushing and can turn easy clears into a struggle.

I have elemental advantage on my Wind team (+70% character attack) and clears take much longer than with my Water team (~+120%). It takes my Wind team about as much time to clear Rank 3 (Thunder) as it does my Water team to clear Rank 4 (all other elements). The difference between those 2 teams is literally Cthulhu's DEF debuff.

[Blueguy]

Complaining always helps.

Although the store-bought SSR had garbage on it, today's Water run provided me with not one, not two, but THREE atk+ Rs. Fuck yeah. About fucking time. Was going to enhance all of those to 30, buuut... then I found a SR with Affliction+ and double+. Doesn't get much better than that, so focused on that instead.

Ryu-Oh finally hit 6% Affliction and has a bonus of 2% double attacks. Nice.Even if it restocked daily, you can't really buy things from there very often with the 2500 point/week cap. It's mostly a "oh crap I'm missing one SR fodder for element X" store.
Right. So I was in the "oh crap I'm missing two fodder for element x" moment.

[Kureru]

Tried out Shingen in wind today and was impressed. I used Hercules' Raging Assault for burst rate up, along with the usual team of Amaterasu, Brynhildr, Motu, Dark Amon. My prime concern was being able to get past the first stage without injuries and stun the boss before she overdrived, both of which I did with Hercules Full Break in other attempts.

Shingen being able to burst early in the first stage completely made up for the loss of Full Break damage, and full burst stunned the boss without issue. She also cut off several turns in the second & third stages. Runs today with Apocalypse were faster than previous runs with Belial; I'm sold.

[sanahtlig]

I'll likely be running Shingen once the ATK debuff cap hits. I can run the Water SR Kikurihime, who buffs team Burst gauge by +15, which will allow me to make maximum use of 'Provisional Forest' (wtf?) without sacrificing Sniper Shot.

However, I'm very wary of giving up Mordred's affliction resist down. That's really key for landing debuffs without elemental advantage, especially Sniper Shot on the opening trash before Sphinx is ready. Also, without Black Propaganda the window for landing a Full Burst during Rage phase without eating a Rage Overdrive will be very tight. With only -50% ATK down and no Black Propaganda, mistiming the Full Burst on the Rank 4 final boss will likely result in a wipe.

[sanahtlig]

According to reports, debuff duration in Accessory Quests is now 180s, consistent with the rest of the game. Uriel also no longer causes game freezes.

[nonsensei]

Good news, guys. The debuff duration bug is fixed, now the debuffs last 3 mins as they should.


I'll likely be running Shingen once the ATK debuff cap hits. I can run the Water SR Kikurihime, who buffs team Burst gauge by +15, which will allow me to make maximum use of 'Provisional Forest' (wtf?) without sacrificing Sniper Shot.

However, I'm very wary of giving up Mordred's affliction resist down. That's really key for landing debuffs without elemental advantage, especially Sniper Shot on the opening trash before Sphinx is ready. Also, without Black Propaganda the window for landing a Full Burst during Rage phase without eating a Rage Overdrive will be very tight. With only -50% ATK down and no Black Propaganda, mistiming the Full Burst on the Rank 4 final boss will likely result in a wipe.

Yep.. Sniper Shot without VoF can go wrong at mobs. I had a few times when only 2-3 debuffs were applies of the 6. Even only one once or twice, so I don't think sacrificing VoF is worth it, especially if you run Cthulhu as well(who also has aiming problems).

[sanahtlig]

Yep.. Sniper Shot without VoF can go wrong at mobs. I had a few times when only 2-3 debuffs were applies of the 6. Even only one once or twice, so I don't think sacrificing VoF is worth it, especially if you run Cthulhu as well(who also has aiming problems).
The problem is that at 7.5k a hit, the Rage Overdrive is almost guaranteed to kill someone, and possibly 2-3. Having sufficient damage to push the boss to stun (or very close) in 1 turn will be really important. I might need another Miracle ticket to pull this off reliably however, and maybe a +100% friend eidolon on top of that to insure against chance events.

[nonsensei]

The problem is that at 7.5k a hit, the Rage Overdrive is almost guaranteed to kill someone, and possibly 2-3. Having sufficient damage to push the boss to stun (or very close) in 1 turn will be really important. I might need another Miracle ticket to pull this off reliably however, and maybe a +100% friend eidolon on top of that to insure against chance events.

If we are considering the atk down cap implemented case, Sol would probably be a bit useless with her C frame atk debuff, other than in the beginning with the mobs (since it's AoE). How about going for Nike Unleashed with Miracle ticket? She can take up the role of healer instead of Sol, cover your A frame def debuff & also has an atk/def buff for the team.

[sanahtlig]

One possible setup I'm considering is Shingen (EX: Sniper Shot), Cthulhu, Poseidon, SSR Nike, and Kikurihime. But without Black Propaganda, timing the Full Burst would be dicey. Alternatively, I could run a standard team of Mordred (EX: Sniper Shot), Cthulhu, Poseidon, Shiva, and SSR Nike, which might be sufficient to push the boss close to Stun without Provisional Forest.

The other option is of course Snow Raphael, who can delay the boss's overdrive and mitigate it to 5k damage, which is more survivable. Her debuff is more likely to hit than Sniper Shot, but it's single-target so less useful on the initial trash. Subbing her for Poseidon in the initial team could allow Shingen to use Black Propaganda. But overall damage would suffer due to the lack of a class A DEF debuff.

Obviously combining SSR Nike and Snow Raphael would achieve the ideal result, but unless I get lucky that won't happen for a while.

[nonsensei]

One possible setup I'm considering is Shingen (EX: Sniper Shot), Cthulhu, Poseidon, SSR Nike, and Kikurihime. But without Black Propaganda, timing the Full Burst would be dicey. Alternatively, I could run a standard team of Mordred (EX: Sniper Shot), Cthulhu, Poseidon, Shiva, and SSR Nike, which might be sufficient to push the boss close to Stun without Provisional Forest.

The other option is of course Snow Raphael, who can delay the boss's overdrive and mitigate it to 5k damage, which is more survivable. Her debuff is more likely to hit than Sniper Shot, but it's single-target so less useful on the initial trash. Subbing her for Poseidon in the initial team could allow Shingen to use Black Propaganda. But overall damage would suffer due to the lack of a class A DEF debuff.

Obviously combining SSR Nike and Snow Raphael would achieve the ideal result, but unless I get lucky that won't happen for a while.

How about using Belphegor if you're that wary of rage? Tbh, with Shingen, I'm pretty sure you could insta stun the boss even on elemental neutrality with that team setup. You could say that "what if I miss a def debuff?", but with debuffs lasting finally 3 mins, I think that shouldn't be much of a problem.. Belphegor could also cover for a missed sniper shot, even if only 12% instead of 20.

[sanahtlig]

The ATK debuff cap is live. Rank 4s just got a lot harder. Since I have Gaia as sub I have somewhat of a buffer, but deaths on the first Overdrive are now much more likely. Time to level that spare Pride weapon I guess.

Belphegor is certainly an option. Right now I rely on Poseidon to get the trash down more quickly. But since I get no benefit from her ATK debuff now, Belphegor might be a better choice, especially with Shingen.

[Slashley]

The ATK debuff cap is live. Rank 4s just got a lot harder. --FUCK. I meant to record a "one last -70% Water vs. Fire" run and then compare it to Valentine event's one... I guess not then!
Was it not live yesterday?


And I've said it before, Belphegor's first skill is ridiculously OP. The amount of Rage Bar reduction it gives is just completely wrong for a SR.

[sanahtlig]

Was it not live yesterday?
I ran Rank 3s yesterday (which I don't usually run), so I wouldn't have noticed the difference even if it had been.

[Marigold]

I just came back this week after my long hiatus looking forward to the accessories and for my surprise it went pretty damn smoothly on all attributes disregarding the fact that I skipped the "random attribute" Lv4 quest from Sunday and did Lv3's because I was afraid of the RNG.

I actually managed to do x3 on all Lv4 Daily Quests using my Fire Main in Wind and Thunder (since my wind team is pretty shitty) without using any healing items (not even drops) at zero Hime deaths, for the Fire Quest (ehem I needed to do the three of this at Lv4 and pray for SSR drops since Fire it's my main) I ran my Water team of:
EX: Sniper Shot Mordred
Ryu-Oh
Belphegor
Regular Nike i'm a scrub for using her, I know lol
Sol
And it went pretty smoothly even though at the last boss I normally lost 1 or 3 Himes, sadly for my samurai pride this time I did need use the dropping healing items.
About Light and Darkness, I have pretty formidable teams of each so it went perfectly on those.
Water was the ball drop for me, I did the Lv4 Quest once and had to use two, yes two elixirs, granted after that shameful display I used my lasting attempts on the Lv3 one. reee, Thunder is ass; despite using Sol and Raiko, I still got shafted smh
After my first week conquest of doing all R4's I only dropped two SSR's from the Lv4 Quests; a Fire one and a Light, so after a week I have my Amaterasu with 3 nice SSR Accessories and Sol with 2 pretty meh ones

Anyways disregarding all of that stuff I have a little question since I'm behind by a lot because of my hiatus on games,
it is: If I can clear R4 on a daily basis for 5 of the 7 days is it worth it to do the Lv3, 2 and 1 for the one-time rewards?
Perhaps it is a dumb question but since you only get three tries a day and I'm a newbie regarding accessories and I want the max Accessory P gain to enhance/exchange SSR's, so I was forced to ask.


image for post porpuses.
https://i.imgur.com/AnvoMf0.png

[Slashley]

If I can clear R4 on a daily basis for 5 of the 7 days is it worth it to do the Lv3, 2 and 1 for the one-time rewards?No.

I did it anyway since I didn't want to see unclaimed rewards, but they're not worth it, no.

[bigblackcock]

well, i got not shiny chest, but got 2 SR that seems nice for sol- 1. def^ HP^ and def^ x2

[Marigold]

No.

I did it anyway since I didn't want to see unclaimed rewards, but they're not worth it, no.

I see, thanks
Also, I think in the long run it is okay for me to enhance using the SR's, I could be wrong though


well, i got not shiny chest, but got 2 SR that seems nice for sol- 1. def^ HP^ and def^ x2
I don't know how to feel about Defense + for a single Hime but since it's Sol and she goes everywhere that's pretty nice; even though I normally have healer/buffers in the back

[Cobblemaniac]

I see, thanks
Also, I think in the long run it is okay for me to enhance using the SR's, I could be wrong though


I don't know how to feel about Defense + for a single Hime but since it's Sol and she goes everywhere that's pretty nice; even though I normally have healer/buffers in the back

If you already have a solid source of SSRs, there wouldn't even be a point to keep the SR accessories afaik.

Def+ for Sol is pretty darn important for her role, considering you don't bring Sol because you want more dmg.

[sanahtlig]

I ran rank 4s for every element for several weeks until I ran out of elemental runes; when I'm low I run rank 3s instead. I've typically had a ~95% success rate in rank 4s.

Rank 3s seem to have an equal SSR drop rate to rank 4s. Rank 4s drop 2 SRs instead of 1, and more enhance fodder also. If you just want SSRs, rank 3s are fine. However, SRs will actually be standard equipment for quite a while. You'll get a lot of them, so you'll have a wide pick of buffs to choose from, and they're relatively cheap to level to max for the full buff effect. For the must-have affliction rate up buff, I'll even happily equip Rs. Meanwhile, I haven't leveled any of my SSRs; the best I have is a Water brooch with 2x HP and 1x Ability DMG. That's not worth leveling.

[Slashley]

-50% Atk sure is painful. Did R3 today, was getting hit for 1500 per attack.

Dreading tomorrow's R4 runs. Not sure how I should handle it. Since reaching -50% is possible without Sol, and Cleanse and Dispel has little use, replacing Sol is possible for a quite large increase in damage output.
... well, would be possible, if I had any other healers. Not sure if Andromeda alone can handle it.

[sanahtlig]

I run all my Rank 4s with Sol as my only healer, though I have Gaia in reserve also. Granted, I relied heavily on healing drops in my runs on Friday, and my other runs since the ATK debuff nerf have been Rank 3s (no cores).

Shingen seems like she'd work well in Thunder teams that already have a class A DEF debuff and Raiko. But if you miss the timing on the Burst, you're going to wipe (should be able to adjust that with ability damage). And if your DEF debuffs miss, you're in serious trouble.

[LeCrestfallen]

played couple r4 accesorry after the nerfs, before i felt uncomfortable running with only sol for heal but it was possible. after the nerf i really needed to add andromeda, lost way to much HP in those extremely long and drawn out fights.

[Slashley]

--
Shingen seems like she'd work well in Thunder teams that already have a class A DEF debuff and Raiko.--Read: teams that have Tyr and Raiko. I mean, Tyr is literally the only Thunder Hime who has -Def until Mammon. Well, there's Noel, time will tell if we get her or not.

Without Tyr, I can't even run Greed on my Thunder team... I'm doing fine with my Water team, as Sniper Shot + Ryu-Oh + Sol is a good combo.

[sanahtlig]

You can give Arthur + Provisional Forest, Shingen + Raging Assault, or Shingen + Sniper Shot + Kikuri-hime a try on your Water team, since you have Ryu-Oh. Might be able to push to Stun with Provisional Forest and Belphegor. Obviously it'd work a lot better with Cthulhu, and if your DEF debuffs miss you're screwed, but you'll have 2 chances to land them at least.

I wouldn't run with Andromeda if you have Sol. Sol sacrifices 15% damage, but you can get +40% spike damage with Shingen, and that's what counts.

[sanahtlig]

*Finally* got a good Water SSR accessory--from the shop of all places. Affliction rate up + DEF up ring. I'll take it. With this I'll be able to equip every single Water member in my team with triple affliction rate up, once I level them all.

[Slashley]

Arthur + Provisional Forest is an interesting idea. It does however mean that my -Def would go down to 32%. Damn, life sure would be easier with Cthulhu. Additionally the first wave would be notably harder without Sniper Shot.

Shingen + Raging Assault is also interesting. Does the added Burst gain stack with Shingen's passive, leaving you with a guaranteed 100 Burst after two turns? Well, either way, same problem as before. Don't think this is viable for my situation.

Kikuri-hime huh... I do have her. The only slot she can get is Triton's, and lack of combo- is terrifying. Even more so now that enemy attacks don't tickle anymore. Without it, a single turn of bad luck can instantly wipe a run. In any of the three waves. Don't think I'll be running her, but for now, I limit broke her and will level her up from 60 -> 70. It's good to have options.


I guess I have some experimenting to do tomorrow. Provisional Forest opens a lot of doors, while Sol's "nerf" hurts a lot. It'll be an almost whole new experience. And that's good, since my god I'm getting sick and tired of Accessory quests.
*Finally* got a good Water SSR accessory--from the shop of all places. Affliction rate up + DEF up ring. I'll take it. With this I'll be able to equip every single Water member in my team with triple affliction rate up, once I level them all.Am very jelly.

[sanahtlig]

Kikuri-hime huh... I do have her. The only slot she can get is Triton's, and lack of combo- is terrifying.
Blind can substitute for Combo attack down. Apocalyse's Blind lands pretty often for me with Mordred's Affliction resistance down.

[Slashley]

Blind can substitute for Combo attack down. Apocalyse's Blind lands pretty often for me with Mordred's Affliction resistance down.The problem with that is that Apo re-run was the last event where I wasn't strong enough to LMB everything. My 1-star Apo would cost me at least 700 base Atk... ... well, considering the mass amounts of base Atk we have these days, it isn't the end of the world.

Anyway, first run. Before I ran Andromeda for double heals in a pure endurance build, but I don't think that works anymore. So I brought Shingen with Sniper Shot, Kikuri-Hime, FL Jormund and Apo in my set. Three neutral waves, but... it was still a struggle. Though Blind applied, both of my vital Hime - Belphegor and Ryu-Oh - got bitch-slapped for 3*1500 damage and nearly died. It's not like Blind is useless though, afterwards both got a Miss on them that WOULD have killed them otherwise. What are the odds...
I will say that Provisional Forest is very impressive. But I'm not sure if I want to build around it. Or should I say that for me, building around it is quite difficult at the moment?

It's fully possible that the struggle was because of FL Jormund. Without double Reiki, that lowers my damage output by a whopping 10% (against neutral). Ow. My bad. I thought I'd have an easy Wave1 with Sniper Shot + Sol + Jormund. No wonder it took like 35 rounds to reach Rage phase...


Second try, dropped Apo for Rahab (for worst case scenarios), dropped Kikuri-Hime for Triton and swapped to Mordred. With Sniper Shot and Belphegor, I had freaking three B debuffs, though two of them are weak. Three neutral waves, no issues. Stun happened at like round 27.

Third run, two neutral, Thunder wave3. Hooooly crap does the boss hurt. And thank heavens for all my back-up buffs. With my team being capable of dishing out up to -70% Atk, a couple of resists doesn't matter. Two A Atk, three B, a neutral C and a neutral Eidolon effect truly saved my freaking hide. Damn the resist ratio is so damn high even when Mordred's debuff- is up. Can't forget about two Black Propagandas, thankfully never got double resists.
But honestly? What saved me the most was pure luck. The boss didn't focus anyone down. Blind and Charm mostly didn't get resisted, and kept proccing constantly. ~2000 per turn and three 1500 bolts every four turns is just too damn much for Sol to handle. The Rage Overdrive was 3x 10k damage, one-shotting three Hime instantly. I had to use Rahab on a non-Rage Overdrive earlier, just so that I'd make it to Rage at all.

Having debuff overlap seems like a blessing more than a curse. While it is certainly viable to stack only different debuffs for elemental advantage encounters (as that's just basic min-maxing), against even neutral having multiple sources of each debuff keeps things so much more stable.

[sanahtlig]

Mordred, Cthulhu, Triton, Gabriel, and Sol are the team I currently run with. That has layers of redundancy on pretty much every debuff. Provisional Forest builds are dodgy if you have to run Sniper Shot as sub, because if it misses you're really screwed. It's great if you have elemental advantage or a source of debuff resistance down from kamihime though. A good Provisional Forest build for most elements needs a class B debuff on kamihime stacked with affliction rate up accessories so it doesn't miss. Fire and Light are exceptions since they have access to elemental resistance down debuffs and/or debuffs that don't miss because ???.

[Marigold]

Don't the Acc P for exchange accesories refresh after some time? I wanted another Fire SSR vía exchange but it's isn't there...

[Slashley]

Man, the blasted "Sol" nerf sure hurts far more than what I expected. Thunder Accessories have never been easy since my Wind team just entirely lacks a punch, but it wasn't an issue before since I had such a good endurance team. Now... ouch. I had to Elixir one run, wasn't pleased about that. Sol died on wave2, leaving me with no heals (except Ygg and Joan). Surprising how far I got considering, I was only like 10% off from killing wave3.

I guess once I max my Water grid it'll be time to move to my Wind grid. Sigh. I wanted to push my Darkness grid, but I guess that's not happening for a long, long time then.
Don't the Acc P for exchange accesories refresh after some time? I wanted another Fire SSR vía exchange but it's isn't there...I believe those Accessory Shop refreshes on the first of every month. I think. Maybe. Possibly.

[Marigold]

Welp, 'guess I was a few days too late...

[Aidoru]

It's every month, my shop had all the accessories available a few days ago and I had already bought several of the accessories in it. The thing is that I think it resets literally at the start of the month rather than 'every 4 weeks'. I wasn't paying attention though, not like I check it every day.

[Aidoru]

Wasn't paying attention, started a thunder acc quest and auto'd on my light team... When I tabbed to check on it, noticed something weird. The boss was dropping coins with it raging overdrive. Was like "wait, rank3 boss doesn't do this... oh crap." Well, they managed to get the boss to about 1/6th HP on auto, so that's something I guess.

[Marigold]

It's every month, my shop had all the accessories available a few days ago and I had already bought several of the accessories in it. The thing is that I think it resets literally at the start of the month rather than 'every 4 weeks'. I wasn't paying attention though, not like I check it every day.
First I lose the Miracle Ticket because I wasn't playing and now, now all remaining hope left

I did T4 pretty easily today -50/50 and Sol to heal alongside Andromeda and gold luck on the drop items in two attempts, sadly no SSR's though

[VeryVoodoo]

First I lose the Miracle Ticket because I wasn't playing and now, now all remaining hope left

I did T4 pretty easily today -50/50 and Sol to heal alongside Andromeda and gold luck on the drop items in two attempts, sadly no SSR's though

SSRs are plat chest drops & the R4s will always drop 2 gold chests. As for the acc shop, it only has rings which are the worst stat accs of the game. So it's not really a big deal if you miss out on 'em, as you'll mostly only want them as enhance fodder (you could get one with god rolls though, but chances of that would still be pretty slim anyway).

[Marigold]

SSRs are plat chest drops & the R4s will always drop 2 gold chests. As for the acc shop, it only has rings which are the worst stat accs of the game. So it's not really a big deal if you miss out on 'em, as you'll mostly only want them as enhance fodder (you could get one with god rolls though, but chances of that would still be pretty slim anyway).

I wanted the rings for the Kamihime that are on my sub basically (Summer Sol, Ares) Just for the increase since I'm a almost two months behind the accessories, even though now that I think about it, I might get better SR's passive effect-wise
Meh, It's just me liking yellow I guess...

[Cobblemaniac]

Now with the debuff cap going to be implemented soon, how is it going to affect the R4 accessory quest meta? I feel like many teams will be significantly nerfed, or am I missing something here?

[sanahtlig]

Now with the debuff cap going to be implemented soon, how is it going to affect the R4 accessory quest meta? I feel like many teams will be significantly nerfed, or am I missing something here?
The nerf already happened. And yes, life is hard now. I lost my Soul today on the final boss before Rage. That never happened before other than on bad transitions with no debuffs. Survival without healing drops is no longer guaranteed. Even with Black Propaganda, Combo attack down, and full ATK debuffs throughout, the entire run can be derailed by focus-fire on an important team member. I can still usually win, but my loss rate will probably increase to 10% or so.

[Slashley]

The nerf already happened. And yes, life is hard now. --It sure is. I never expected to have trouble against Water, but here I am. Two out of three runs that had trouble in them. I didn't wipe - or really even risk wiping - but considering how good my Thunder team is, I find it quite unexpected to end a run with two dead Hime and just barely squezing through before the Rage phase nukes happen. Well, not that Thunder teams can really be all THAT good yet...

Before, I could've just brushed off some unlucky triple attacks or turn-after-turn single Hime focus fire. Now, it is murder. Just need to adapt, I guess. Am I glad that am running with +50% HP, if I didn't have this stuff prepared I'd be crying.

Still, I am very glad to have Sol. Despite her nerf (and it mostly is just Sol nerf, though I guess Zephyrus and Caspiel got hit too), she's still so damn good.
I can still usually win, but my loss rate will probably increase to 10% or so.Out of curiosity, I assume you mean when running your Water team against non-Fire?

[sanahtlig]

Out of curiosity, I assume you mean when running your Water team against non-Fire?
It's an estimate of how many losses I'll have in a week total if run rank 4 at every opportunity (21x). 10% would be 2 losses. This factors in that I run a Wind team against Thunder on Mondays and that's likely a guaranteed win. I don't have enough data points to say for sure, but I ran my Water team 6x on non-Fire Rank 4s so far (Sunday and Wednesday), and I have 1 loss (which I used an elixir to recover from since Water). I also don't have the spawn materials to run Rank 4 at every opportunity, which limits data points in the short-term.

[Laventale]

http://puu.sh/zjoEZ/3d81e8bd08.png

Got this today, I wish it was Atk up but w/e.

[sanahtlig]

Got this today, I wish it was Atk up but w/e.
That accessory is basically useless. Might as well use an SR with decent buffs. As a rule of thumb, if the SSR doesn't have at least 2 buffs that are at least of average usefulness, use an SR instead.

[Slashley]

Had two runs with Vine. Although she drops my Atk from gear from 30722 to 29403, I am still very impressed. Running Mordred, used Vine once on wave2 and twice on wave3, zero resists. So 6/6 so far.

Both of my wave3s were Fire though, so it's not like I would've had any issues in any case, but running -50% Def is... quite impressive. I doubt she's worth it for those running -50% through other means, but certainly a good one to use for all others.

[sanahtlig]

That's interesting. We'll have to gather some more data to verify the accuracy. If that holds up, I might have to revise my recommendations, which assumed that reaching -50% DEF through kamihime alone was top priority. They won't change drastically, especially since there's a long CD before it can be used, but that adds a lot more flexibility than I initially anticipated.

[Slashley]

Well, not much statistics on third run as it was a disaster. Went against Water, first mob resisted debuff-, the proceeded to resist everything else as well. And it was instantly over. Maybe I could've recovered, but Thunder wave2 and Thunder wave3 was just... yeah, no. Would've probably needed two Elixirs to get that fight under control as everything was on CD, maybe three. So didn't bother.

Anyway, used Sphinx -> Vine on wave2, went through just fine.


Sample size is still small, but Vine looks extremely promising. The CD is "just" eight turns too, so it is quite fast for an Eidolon.

[sanahtlig]

Vine has made my Wind team more or less invincible against Thunder, and she's only LV30 and I don't even have Hastur's DEF down skill upgraded yet. Bosses die nearly as fast as against my Water team now (which has to hold back to avoid bad transitions anyway). With Mordred and Sniper Shot, I can typically take the boss down before I even take damage from the Rage Overdrive. Vine has made runs 50% less painful, and is a huge stress relief over running Cthulhu and having to worry about whether she'll even survive til the final boss.

[Unregistered]

Vine has made my Wind team more or less invincible against Thunder, and she's only LV30 and I don't even have Hastur's DEF down skill upgraded yet. Bosses die nearly as fast as against my Water team now (which has to hold back to avoid bad transitions anyway). With Mordred and Sniper Shot, I can typically take the boss down before I even take damage from the Rage Overdrive. Vine has made runs 50% less painful, and is a huge stress relief over running Cthulhu and having to worry about whether she'll even survive til the final boss.

What is this Vine you're talking about?

[sanahtlig]

Vine is the new Dark story SR eidolon available in the shop, and provides a -10% DEF eidolon-class debuff (8T CD) that stacks with most typical sources. She can be farmed with about 240AP.

[sanahtlig]

So I ran the numbers, and to put this in perspective:
Running a LV30 Vine, with a team that normally is capable of -40% DEF, increases damage nearly as much as running a +100% eidolon (on top of an existing +100% friend eidolon). She's THAT good. The debuff seems to have a pretty high accuracy rate too; probably higher than 70% given that it landed 4/4 times for me on Thunder element with Vicissitudes of Fortune.

This must've been a way to rebalance the game after the ATK down debuff nerf. By providing all players with a means to end fights quicker, it compensated for taking away the ability to live forever.

[Slashley]

Farming the "Nike's Rampage" Sub-Quest seems to award you with 1 Silver material for Vine on average. You need 10, 15, 20, 25 for copies of her. Though, you might only need one copy, since getting limit breaks on her nets you a pitiful amount of stats. I'm at two stars with her now, and she's at 453 Atk (though only level 56/60).

Not sure if it's worth the 15/35/60 hours of AP regen at all, but oh well. I, at least, am not short on any materials in the slightest since I play this game way too much.

[BigBobs]

So I ran the numbers, and to put this in perspective:
Running a LV30 Vine, with a team that normally is capable of -40% DEF, increases damage nearly as much as running a +100% eidolon (on top of an existing +100% friend eidolon). She's THAT good. The debuff seems to have a pretty high accuracy rate too; probably higher than 70% given that it landed 4/4 times for me on Thunder element with Vicissitudes of Fortune.

This must've been a way to rebalance the game after the ATK down debuff nerf. By providing all players with a means to end fights quicker, it compensated for taking away the ability to live forever.

Snipe shot + amon debuff is 45% right? So it it still worth it to run vine?

Remaining team is awakened susanoo, hades, sol.

[sanahtlig]

Snipe shot + amon debuff is 45% right? So it it still worth it to run vine?

Remaining team is awakened susanoo, hades, sol.
It's a 4% damage loss with a LV30 Vine when the debuff isn't up, and a 5% gain when it's up. So, it's more situational. Raising her to LV90 raises each of those by about 1%.

[BigBobs]

It's a 4% damage loss with a LV30 Vine when the debuff isn't up, and a 5% gain when it's up. So, it's more situational. Raising her to LV90 raises each of those by about 1%.

Thanks. I'll look into getting her in between events. I mostly just auto everything with my main dark team except for the 1 a day event apocs and light/dark accessories.

[Slashley]

Since we're still unsure about the procrates, my Wind team is super crappy (for T4), so it takes a long time to beat Thunder quests. So I had 1+3 Vine's every time, and no Mordred.

I had 10/12 successes, one resist was after Sphinx resist, one was when Sphinx was up.

The success rate of Vine seems really good for an Eidolon debuff.

[sanahtlig]

Since we're still unsure about the procrates, my Wind team is super crappy (for T4), so it takes a long time to beat Thunder quests. So I had 1+3 Vine's every time, and no Mordred.

I had 10/12 successes, one resist was after Sphinx resist, one was when Sphinx was up.

The success rate of Vine seems really good for an Eidolon debuff.
I've noticed that Jorm and Yatagarasu never seem to miss their ATK debuffs with Mordred's affliction resist down applied. The accuracy rate on Vine's could be expected to be similar, especially since it seems much higher than the SR Gatcha eidolon's DEF down.

[sanahtlig]

I just had a run from Hell. Fire > Thunder > Thunder as a Water team. I started the Thunder mid-boss with my Soul at 70 Burst (due to high damage in the previous wave), so I couldn't Burst right away, and one of my DEF debuffs misssed, so I ended up eating 2 Overdrives and losing one of my DEF debuffers. Then I go into the Final boss, and get so much lag (several seconds after each action) that my debuffs were falling off even with the fixed timer. Each of my debuffs were missing one-by-one over the course of... like 6-7 applications. Usually takes 2. Finally Black Propaganda missed during Rage and it looked like that might be it. I somehow STILL cleared it, but the battle took like 25min.

I'm not even sure if I should try another run. That lag was serious sabotage.

[Slashley]

The servers have been utter shit for the past few days.

Still, being able to clear that at all is impressive. I just finished my Water grid, I wonder if I'd stand a chance against wave2 Thunder wave3 Thunder now...

[sanahtlig]

I was able to survive that because Gaia subbed in after the first death, allowing me to recover HP during the normal phase of the final boss, and heavily mitigate the overdrives. Otherwise, any debuffs missing would've probably been lethal. A Water team with Gaia is literally the most tanky group you can have with elemental disadvantage against the final boss. Not only can she 100% mitigate the boss's overdrives 50% of the time, she can also 60% mitigate the others due to the Thunder resistance buff on her damage cut, and this applies to normal attacks too. Then add Blind, Charm, Combo attack down, and her healing, and the build's tankiness is really impressive. Though an untimely Charm proc can instantly end you, of course.

[Cobblemaniac]

Is it still worth grabbing Vine if you already have Yamata?

[sanahtlig]

Judging from reports, Vine's accuracy rate is higher than Yamata's.

Also, I pulled off another unlikely victory. Thunder > Light > Thunder. My Soul (Mordred) died in the first wave (as expected, due to the lag causing my debuffs to expire at an untimely moment), leaving me without any class B debuff, any way to lower debuff resistance, or Black Propaganda. I didn't think I'd be able to clear ANY last boss, much less another Thunder, especially once 4/5 of my ATK and DEF debuffs missed right off the bat. I should really start recording these Sunday runs, as some of them are truly epic.

[Unregistered]

Pick up Vine anyway so you can choose between the two for each element. Yamata no Orochi's success rate is dicey, but you can get away with her with elemental advantage (ie against Fire) and/or you have a way to lower resistance to ailments. Since they have the same cooldown, it's a question of accuracy vs some more stats and 2% more def debuff.

[Slashley]

First run, two neutrals, Thunder wave3.

I absolutely DEMOLISHED her. I won't say that my winrate against that will be 100% (debuffs or target RNG luck can go horribly wrong), but... holy shit. In the past week, I've gotten Vine and finished up my Water grid. What a huge difference... ... and it certainly wasn't the Grid going from 110% to 120%. So this is what Cthulhu users feel like, huh.

[sanahtlig]

Vine is by far the biggest upgrade most veteran players can aim for right now, short of a +100% eidolon, and opens up new build possibilities. I'll try and get a proper guide section up for it sometime this week.

[blubbergott]

Gotta agree, first time I ran Vine today and all 3 r4 runs went super smooth. Though playing light also helps :)

[Kureru]

9367

Got something nice today. I like how the game thinks it can level up more :eyeroll:

[Blueguy]

Yeah, I noticed that a while back. Can't even do a progress bar correctly.

[Slashley]

I can't even remember when I last got an SSR drop, but today, it happened.
Twice.

Def+ Def+ StatusRes+ and Mode Gauge- Mode Gauge-... the first one would be good if Thunder had a healer, but uh. Now it'd just be a stat stick. I doubt I'll ever enhance that.

At least last week, the drops weren't complete garbage. I got about one decent R every single day I think. Considering how I've gone for weeks without a single one, that's quite nice.
... now, if only Affliction+ would drop on any other element than Water, it'd be even nicer... I have five Afflictions in Water, and like three in all other elements combined.

[sanahtlig]

The best way to land the accessories you want is to run more Rank 4s. They seem to drop 2x as much of everything except SSRs. Which is actually a pain since that means you have to clear your inbox more often. Right now I just run Rank 4 Water, Wind, and mixed, because I can't farm 9 spawn items a week for all 6 elements at the same time.

[Cobblemaniac]

The best way to land the accessories you want is to run more Rank 4s. They seem to drop 2x as much of everything except SSRs. Which is actually a pain since that means you have to clear your inbox more often. Right now I just run Rank 4 Water, Wind, and mixed, because I can't farm 9 spawn items a week for all 6 elements at the same time.

Doesn't help that the items stay in inventory even if you equip them, just clutters your entire storage.

[Slashley]

The best way to land the accessories you want is to run more Rank 4s. I've been doing that from the start, though. I gave up on Wind and Dark because the opposing teams I have for them are lacking, so they take forever to clear. And Light, because I don't really have any use for their accessories.

So I run 4 R4s and 3 R3s, three runs, every week. Still, don't get fucking shit usually. It's always just Mode Gauge Down and Ability+. Those two are weighted so much it's insane.

[Unregistered]

I at least wished they would chang the icons for effects that use the same one. Got to love it when you see multiple sword icons on a SSR accessory only to find out they're all ability damage.

But yes, ability damage and mode reduction seem to have a very high appearance rate compared to others.

[bigblackcock]

wanted to test the damage of my fire team burst with shingen as soul:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9g8ND8iHIM

[blubbergott]

Figured I'd also record a Wind R4 run. Mostly just to test recording KamiPro. :)


https://youtu.be/3181tWrEd1g

[Slashley]

Looks good. I'm pretty sure that your recording software can either center or even zoom in more into KH, so that that one-sided border wouldn't be so... disturbing.

Damn, what a huge difference Amaterasu makes. My team is pretty much the same, just with Acala instead of Amaterasu...


Anyway, I don't know if you posted that for advice or not, but I'll give it anyway! Ha haa!

First wave, using debuffs before buffs is a small misplay, but ultimately doesn't matter one bit because of how much above your team is over this content. It's a lot more forgiving anyway now that the timers are normal.
Third wave, you really don't need to nuke the boss before Rage phase. With either Yamaraja's combo- or Amaterasu's Blind, you're pretty much entirely safe until Rage. You can just apply debuffs, and nuke when you reach or are about to reach Rage. Here, that misplay almost cost you - if you wouldn't have been strong enough to clear Rage phase with a non-full Burst, you would've been in for a world of pain. Probably nowhere near enough to make you wipe, but there's no reason to take that risk.

Also, a minor misplay the placement of the Hime. Those with +Burst abilities such Ares (or in this case, +combo and +burst generation) should always go into first slot. That way, you're far more likely to be able to full Burst earlier if your Soul decides to go Triple Triple Double Double attacks.

[blubbergott]

Looks good. I'm pretty sure that your recording software can either center or even zoom in more into KH, so that that one-sided border wouldn't be so... disturbing.

Hehe, ye, I've just used OBS and Window recording with Chrome in Fullscreen. OBS has a Gameview to record games iirc, but does that work here?


Anyway, I don't know if you posted that for advice or not, but I'll give it anyway! Ha haa!

Advice is always welcome, even if it's just to provoke some thoughts. :)


First wave, using debuffs before buffs is a small misplay, but ultimately doesn't matter one bit because of how much above your team is over this content. It's a lot more forgiving anyway now that the timers are normal.

Think the only mistake was Joan's atk down. The 2 non damaging def downs were purposely before Belial, to increase her damage (if Eidolon damage doesn't get affected by Debuffs, let me know, would make these choices a lot easier). The atk down was definitely a mistake though, should be done after the Buff. Debuff duration isn't of any concern here anyways.


Third wave, you really don't need to nuke the boss before Rage phase. With either Yamaraja's combo- or Amaterasu's Blind, you're pretty much entirely safe until Rage. You can just apply debuffs, and nuke when you reach or are about to reach Rage. Here, that misplay almost cost you - if you wouldn't have been strong enough to clear Rage phase with a non-full Burst, you would've been in for a world of pain. Probably nowhere near enough to make you wipe, but there's no reason to take that risk.

Haha, ye, agree on that one, that was just me being impatient and wanting to speed things up. Ended up with as crappy of a setup as possible (without full burst or nukes right before the overdrive. But ye, definitely would've played that differently if my team weren't as strong as it is here.


Also, a minor misplay the placement of the Hime. Those with +Burst abilities such Ares (or in this case, +combo and +burst generation) should always go into first slot. That way, you're far more likely to be able to full Burst earlier if your Soul decides to go Triple Triple Double Double attacks.

Ok, this one I've actually given a lot of thought before and decided against it. Ares has way more burst generation than any others in my team right now, so running her last actually often allows me to let her burst alone and gather another 60 until the others are ready to burst. That allows me to burst 1 turn earlier and get additional burst damage in. That happens f.e. in the Icarus video i posted in the other thread. Another reason was that Ares tends to kill herself (can be circumvented with Yamaraja, but losing the increased atk rate then), therefore I don't really want to put her into the front line. I might change this if i use a different soul, but Joan is usually the bottleneck 90% of the time, so this has been working well for me.

Anyways, thanks for the input. If you know how to record that better with OBS, let me know. :)

[Slashley]

Ok, this one I've actually given a lot of thought before and decided against it. Ares has way more burst generation than any others in my team right now, so running her last actually often allows me to let her burst alone and gather another 60 until the others are ready to burst. That allows me to burst 1 turn earlier and get additional burst damage in.My Ares certainly doesn't get THAT much +Burst in. However, once you Awaken her (and I assume you will), her combo+ powers up AND the fire debuff gains more uptime will allow her to generate a ton of Burst. Then, sure. Might as well get used to it now, so fair enough~
If you know how to record that better with OBS, let me know. :)I'm no expert on OBS, but the way I did it was
Display capture
Hold alt and drag the borders to fit Kamihime
Right click -> Transform -> Fit to Screen

That seems to get even borders on both sides.

[blubbergott]

Ah, nvm, I'm an idiot. OBS was still set to my old screen (that was wider) therefore cutting off the right side. Thanks, future videos will be centered :D

[MagicSpice]

just out of curiosity, anyone happen to know the drop rate for SSR?

it's gotta be on par with advent platinum chests... or maybe lower...

[Cobblemaniac]

just out of curiosity, anyone happen to know the drop rate for SSR?

it's gotta be on par with advent platinum chests... or maybe lower...

Sana did a statistical test for the gacha drop rates, it's within the gacha sheet section in his toolbox.

[MagicSpice]

Sana did a statistical test for the gacha drop rates, it's within the gacha sheet section in his toolbox.

SSR accessories i mean

[Cobblemaniac]

SSR accessories i mean

Oh dear, I forgot this was the accessories thread, automatically assumed you meant gacha XD

Can't say for rank 4, but I've only ever gotten 1 plat chest (SSR) drop out of pretty much 25 runs in rank 3.

[Slashley]

I've found more SSRs from Rank3 than Rank4, and considering that I run 4 days of Rank4 and 3 days of Rank3, that means that the droprate is probably the same.

Getting a usable SSR is basically impossible and a pipe dream. Start a party if you get one.
Focus on getting usable Rs (which are really cheap to max) and usable SRs.

[Cobblemaniac]

I've found more SSRs from Rank3 than Rank4, and considering that I run 4 days of Rank4 and 3 days of Rank3, that means that the droprate is probably the same.

Getting a usable SSR is basically impossible and a pipe dream. Start a party if you get one.
Focus on getting usable Rs (which are really cheap to max) and usable SRs.

That does remind me. I got an SSR wind earring the other day, with def up and atk up. Question 1 is should I party? And question 2 is, I thought only the rings get 1 effect less than the other accessories? I expected to get 3 effects on the accessory, but somehow only 2 exist on that earring :think:

[Slashley]

SSRs have two types which have only two skills for some reason.

And yes, you should party. Getting even a single one of the good stats (Affliction, Atk, Dbl) is great. Getting the extra to be one of the decent stats (Def, HP, Drop) is amazing.
I don't know if it's wise to commit resources on maxing that just yet, but certainly keep it around.

[Delete]

SSRs have two types which have only two skills for some reason.

And yes, you should party. Getting even a single one of the good stats (Affliction, Atk, Dbl) is great. Getting the extra to be one of the decent stats (Def, HP, Drop) is amazing.
I don't know if it's wise to commit resources on maxing that just yet, but certainly keep it around.

Back when the accesories where a new thing, my first SSR, doing T3, was a light one with DEF up, Affliction Rate Up and Ability damage Up; it went directly to Sol. Back then, I was happy for the SSR, but don't think of the accessory as anything special. Later, with things like a triple Mode Gauge one (wind) and posts like this, I should clearly do that party. :rofl:

[Cobblemaniac]

Back when the accesories where a new thing, my first SSR, doing T3, was a light one with DEF up, Affliction Rate Up and Ability damage Up; it went directly to Sol. Back then, I was happy for the SSR, but don't think of the accessory as anything special. Later, with things like a triple Mode Gauge one (wind) and posts like this, I should clearly do that party. :rofl:

That party was like 4 months overdue then :sweat:

[Delete]

Never is too late to party :cool:

[blubbergott]

Getting a usable SSR is basically impossible and a pipe dream. Start a party if you get one.
Focus on getting usable Rs (which are really cheap to max) and usable SRs.

Something like these? ^^
9555

I've actually gotten a lot more drops from farming R4s than from when I was still farming R3s. Feels to me like you just get 2 shots at getting one instead of just 1 in R3.

[sanahtlig]

I hardcore farmed R4s religiously for a month then switched to mostly R3. I don't really see a difference in SSR drop rate. This is actually a testable hypothesis. In my case, I only do R4s for Water and Wind, so over time I should accrue more Wind and Water SSRs than other elements. The number of non-ring SSRs is more or less the same among elements for me.

[MagicSpice]

so not much of a setback if i can't do rank 4 with a team... aside from the drop rate on SR/R

cause all 6 element comps i got can at least handle rank 3 with little to no problem, and some (like wind) can destroy rank 4 without even losing 40% of my HP...

there's only a few teams (thunder and fire) that HAVE to use an elixir to clear rank 4.... dark might or might not do it (depends on how long andromeda/sol can last) and water needs a healer heavy setup for a reliable no-elixir clear

[sanahtlig]

The higher drop rate of SRs and Rs means you can level stuff faster, and you have a greater selection of buffs to work with. But it also means there's more synth busywork to do each week.

More importantly, I discovered that my Water team is able to reliably full-auto AQ3 Light, which means I should be able to auto them all. That will reduce the daily grind to a more manageable level. I might very well just stop doing AQ4 altogether except on Sundays when it's free. My Water and Wind teams are decently equipped now, and I don't have enough decent SSRs worth leveling, so the trash SRs are just piling up.

[Slashley]

... mother of god.

First Sunday run: Fire last boss, plat drop. Okay, cool.
Second run: Fire last boss, plat drop. What the f-
Third run: Darkness last boss, no plat drop. Oh no, how unlucky!

First Fire SSR: Atk+, Def+ earring. Hey, it might only be two enigmas, but the third one would be trash anyway, so I'll bloody take it!!
Second Fire SSR: Gauge, Atk+, Drop+ necklace.

Today was a good day.
Not sure when - if ever - I'll level these up since Fire is very low priority for me, but hotdamn.

[Dunhere]

9581

FML. And then some.

[Laventale]

9581

FML. And then some.

That's one shitty ring if I have seen one.

Burst DMG is nice, but I wouldn't put it above Def or Atk buffs.

[Slashley]

9581

FML. And then some.Considering how rare Burst damage is, that is impressive.
Burst DMG is nice, --Not in Accessories it isn't. The value is far too low to even make an impact in your damage output (assuming that we're talking SSRs here). Each one (when leveled up) is... 1.1% damage? That would be nice, if it wasn't for two things:
1. This only applies during Burst, so once every 6-8 turns, dropping the overall gain to 0.19%-0.14%.
2. This is even less if you're running Provisional Forest, which people do run for Burst builds.

Sooo... yeah. In Accessories, +Burst is a very, very miserable stat.

[sanahtlig]

The mistake I see a lot of new players make is expecting stats and systems to be balanced and operate intuitively. There couldn't be a truly useless stat, right? Wrong. You'd expect an accessory with Burst buff to be good for Burst builds at least, but it's actually the opposite. The assumption of balance is based around experiences in typical MMOs and RPGs, but that just doesn't hold in this game.

[nonsensei]

Man, this thread sure is dead. To liven things up a bit, here is some more of R challenge sillyness.


https://youtu.be/xtcTnlAUZao

[MagicSpice]

Man, this thread sure is dead. To liven things up a bit, here is some more of R challenge sillyness.

is dazbog good?

not often i see her used, even in R teams...

[nonsensei]

is dazbog good?

not often i see her used, even in R teams...

She's kinda RNG reliant, but as you could see, her nuke can reach pretty high numbers. Unfortunately, I don't have Vulcan & Zeruel, but I probably would have used Zeruel on Dazbog's place & Vulcan as sub1 to change someone nuked to death by rage burst & use her nuke to bring down the rage meter more.. that said, I somehow managed to do it with no deaths (I totally didn't expect that :rofl:), so Vulcan on Dazbog's spot might have worked, too.

[nonsensei]

And here goes the dark AQ4 with R team. Brought Inanna to deal a bigger dmg at rage phase, but apparently it has a 200k ceiling, so fk it..


https://youtu.be/zbJsG_sBhs0

On a side note, I think I can only manage maybe one more with R team: the thunder AQ4. Water, thunder & dark Rs are basically useless, not covering for pretty much any utility.

[blubbergott]

Haha, damn nice. Don't think i'm quite up to that yet. On another note, I decided to rerecord Dark R4 run with my recent Light additions and after finishing up my weapon grid. Nice to see how much stronger it is now compared to a month ago. Disregard the crappy playing, it's late and I was kinda stressing myself. Kinda fun to try to speedrun it though. :)


https://youtu.be/UHsMbP1HBUs

[Kitty]

...surprised myself earlier.
had 1 attempt left cause i didn't bother with it earlier on in the day.
thought to myself i could try to auto ability for the first time in rank 4.
cuz i rlly had to poop

so, started it with lvl 85 Hecat (3lb)
my team-

Arc w/ sniper shot
Durga (lvl 40 only)
LTsuku
Diana
Daphne

sub- Artemis
Nike [Unleashed]

managed to win with 4 girls left standing.
grid is 103% assault, so i'm impressed... considering the amount of SSR I don't have, and lack of healer in main team. :D

[nonsensei]

Continuing the silly R challenges series:

https://youtu.be/4tWjpjeqoO4

Wind Rs fking OP.

[Laventale]

https://puu.sh/AdprI/112164203e.png

Could've been better, but at least I got a drop.

[LeCrestfallen]

This is a beautiful fodder item.
Not a single regret will be gotten.

[Slashley]

Finally, after all these months, a THIRD Affliction+ for Thunder has finally dropped for me (well, yesterday, but I don't even bother checking what dropped every day anymore). So Thor is at 6% now.

Seriously, would it be too much to ask to have a few more of these things? I'll take them in any form, like Thor has two SRs with Ability+ Affliction+ now. Honestly, would've preferred Affliction+ Rs over that garbage, but since ZERO have dropped, it's not like I have much of a choice in the matter.

[Laventale]

Finally, after all these months, a THIRD Affliction+ for Thunder has finally dropped for me (well, yesterday, but I don't even bother checking what dropped every day anymore). So Thor is at 6% now.

Seriously, would it be too much to ask to have a few more of these things? I'll take them in any form, like Thor has two SRs with Ability+ Affliction+ now. Honestly, would've preferred Affliction+ Rs over that garbage, but since ZERO have dropped, it's not like I have much of a choice in the matter.

I have like 4 Affliction RST up, 1 SSR and 3 SRs.

[nonsensei]

Silly R challenges: 2-man Gaia water edition. Kushinada+Oto-Hime combo OP.


https://youtu.be/dFnFOSCiQM4

[JStar]

What is life...?
:frown:
10027

[Cobblemaniac]

What is life...?
:frown:
10027

And Kitty got one with light too...

[Cobblemaniac]

10173

Food? :think:

[Slashley]

Garbage
Garbage
Okay

Yeah, I'd say food. For SR+, I accept only two useful enigmas. So just about all of them end up being Atk+ Def+, just because of just how common Def+ is.

[JStar]

What Is Life: The Sequel: The Movie: The Game :angry:

10182