Optimal Accessory Enhancement Discussion

[sanahtlig]

Now that I've created a simulator to model the accessory enhancement process (Accessory Enhancement Calculator (https://harem-battle.club/kamihime-project/3373-sanahtligs-kamihime-project-toolbox-3.html#post100146)), we can work on optimal enhancement strategies.

Point 1: Conserve gems by using the fewest number of batches possible.
Point 2: Make the best use of fodder resources by using all fodder available (rarities and elements).
Point 3: Conserve gems by using the highest rarity fodder possible, and using the rest to level that fodder (since LV1 synths are nearly free).
Point 4: Conserve gems by rear-loading high-value items into later batches, lowering the base level of each batch as much as possible.

Based on my runs of Rank 4 accessory quests this week, it looks like we can expect ~6 SR drops for every 1 SSR. That means we'll likely be relying primarily on SRs for fodder, at least if you want to have 9-12 maxed SSR accessories anytime soon. If you rely on SRs only (assuming a 1:5 ratio of same-element to off-element), you'll need to spend about 160k gems. If we mix in a 1:6 ratio of SSRs to SRs, we can lower that to ~120k.

By my estimates, that puts us at 1.44 mil gems for a full set of SSR accessories, which we can farm fodder for at a rate of 1x 120k accessory per 8 days. That seems doable, though it'll require some gem farming.

https://i.gyazo.com/30c6beeacb42d11ddc36170a54d9b27f.png

[Sfay]

Since you aren't uncluding N are Rs in your levelling, I assume you are selling those.

Considering my drop ratio, with your initial setup, you would have dropped and sold about 19 Matching R and 95 Not matching R, or more accurately, 19 R per element.

Selling those give you 23000 gems and 3450 Acc points



Now, let's consider you use those as fodder. Ideally, you use your Rs 19 by 19 on an SSR of the same element. This initial step costs you 11500 gems, and you get one level 29 SSR for each element.
You now have an SSR worth 968 exp and 5 SSR worth 645 exp

Now redo the levelling with those:

First step, use 20 not matching SR for 2000 gems. Get up to level 32
Second step, use 10 not matching SR, 8 matching SR, 2 not matching SSR1 for 64000 gems. Get up to level 43
Third step, use 5 not matching SSR29 and 1 matching SSR29 for 25800 gems. You reach level 50


This way spent 103300 gems in total.

Your way spent 123400 gems, saved 23000 gems by selling Rs so you can take it down to 100400 gems, and also used 8 extra not matching SR. It got 3450 Acc P instead which represents a third of a matching SR.


Basically, my way saved 7 to 8 Not matching SRs for roughtly the same total price and a tiny bit of extra enhancing time. My way wasn't optimal by any means and the material balance is terrible, but it should be an easy way to understand my point: if you properly want to enhance your Accessories "optimally" like the title says, you should not sell Rs but use them as Enhance material instead. You can use them on other Enhance material, or raw directly on the SSR you want to max, as this will get you to your goal quicker for a significantly higher amount of gems.

By the way, you can do almost the exact same calcs to notice selling Ns isn't optimal either, though the result is less obvious. Right there, by using 20 Ns on an level 1 SR that match those Ns, which costs 2000 gems + 1000 from not selling them, and do it 3 times, you get enough extra exp to cut 2 Not matching SRs from the levelling and save 8400 gems from using less materials on the high level SSR. Effectively, you spend 600 gems for 2 SRs, which is worth it.

[sanahtlig]

Since you aren't uncluding N are Rs in your levelling, I assume you are selling those.
Actually, I was waiting for someone like you to find something to do with them. The gains are actually a bit more than I expected. Good job.

[BamBam]

I hope an accessory guide is coming out at some point. There are many thing unclear about the whole accessory system.

[Shieun]

If you're not going to sell those but use them as an enchanting materials. Wouldn't it be unlikely for someone to have enough accessory P to buy something from the shop at the end of the week? I suppose you'll just have to pick a week when you're going to do the enhancement for maximum gain, and perhaps spending 1-2k jewels for storage expansion too.

Also, typically in case where cost is related to the level of the accessory, it might be a better idea to front load the accessory cost so you get the cheaper enhancement. In your example sfay, will doing step 3 before doing step 2 results in lower overall cost?

[Sfay]

If you're not going to sell those but use them as an enchanting materials. Wouldn't it be unlikely for someone to have enough accessory P to buy something from the shop at the end of the week? I suppose you'll just have to pick a week when you're going to do the enhancement for maximum gain, and perhaps spending 1-2k jewels for storage expansion too.

Also, typically in case where cost is related to the level of the accessory, it might be a better idea to front load the accessory cost so you get the cheaper enhancement. In your example sfay, will doing step 3 before doing step 2 results in lower overall cost?

Indeed, not selling Ns and Rs will result in a really low Acc P gain overall, but that doesn't really matter. Considering the effort needed to level an SSR to max, you don't want to level SSR rings, as those have one less bonus effect and the worst stats out of all accessories. Therefore, the best way to use whatever you buy from the shop is using those as fodder (SRs preferably), and the Acc P you get from selling your stuff is miles from tie the materials you gain from not selling them.


As for your second question, you're wrong, it's actually the opposite. You want tour Accessory to level as slowly as possible at the beginning so it's level remains as low as possible for the future steps. If I do my example backwards:

First step, use 4 not matching SR, 8 matching SR, 2 not matching SSR1, 5 not matching SSR29 and 1 matching SSR29 for 2000 gems. Get up to level 41
Second step, use 20 not matching SR for 82000 gems. Get up to level 48
Third step, use 6 not matching SR for 28800 gems. Get up to level 50

By doing this you just spent 21000 extra gems. You should start with the lower exp value materials.

[Shieun]

So I suppose the last step cost is relatively minor, it's the mid point enhancement that is likely to be the major gem sink....

[sanahtlig]

If you're not going to sell those but use them as an enchanting materials. Wouldn't it be unlikely for someone to have enough accessory P to buy something from the shop at the end of the week?
Whether this matters depends on how precious SSR accessories are to you. If you can clear rank 4, you should be getting about 1 superior-tier SSR per element per week as a drop. You can only cap about 1 per week anyway, so there's actually no need to purchase them from the shop. If you can't clear rank 4, then your priorities might change.

[LeCrestfallen]

Just so that i understand it correctly, they reset our accesory points weekly? i thought it was only a cap to prevent you from making more than these 2500 points/week?

[Blueguy]

I still have my accessory P from last week.

[Shieun]

Just so that i understand it correctly, they reset our accesory points weekly? i thought it was only a cap to prevent you from making more than these 2500 points/week?

apparently this is a misunderstanding on my part. they only reset the cap, not the point. I interpreted them as reseting the point gain

[sanahtlig]

I looked further into the rabbit hole of leveling SSR accessories optimally. After reviewing XP tables, I've reached the following conclusions:

Use SR or higher fodder only. You're going to need more than 20 fodder to cap, and synths after the first batch are very expensive.
Level LV1 fodder only. Otherwise you'll be wasting massive amounts of gems for marginal XP gain.
SR and SSR fodder benefit equally from levels. There's no reason to level one over the other.
For maximum benefit, focus R fodder on leveling SR+ fodder of the same element as the target SSR.
The maximum benefit from SR and SSR fodder is obtained by leveling them as high as possible in one synth. That means you want to focus all your R fodder onto each LV1 SR in batches of 20. Substitute Ns when extra Rs won't add a level. Similarly, focus all your Ns onto each LV1 in batches of 20, and substitute an R if it can net you an additional level.
To maximize the same-element bonus, always combine in the largest same-element batches possible.

Furthermore, I reviewed drops from the last 10 days (mostly rank 4, some rank 3) and arrived at the following drop rates:

1 SSR drop per 6 battles
2 SR drops per battle
2.4 Rs per SR
2.4 Ns per SR

This yields the following rough enhancement plan if you're focusing on raising 1 SSR at a time and using all SR fodder available each week. This assumes that you're hoarding SSRs and not using them to enhance, and for the sake of simplicity ignores the same-element bonus for enhancing SR fodder.
53 SRs: 7 SR25 (6 same-element), 6 SR20, 40 SR1
125 Rs: 17 Rs per SR25, 1 R per SR20
135 Ns: 3 Ns per SR25, 19 Rs per SR20
Total cost: 145,300 gems

The SR1s are used in 2 batches of 20, then the SR25 and SR20s are used in the third batch to reach LV50. It should take about 10 days to farm the required materials per LV50 SSR.

But actually, the optimal way to spend your resources is to synth your SR1s in batches of 20 onto all the SSRs you plan to equip for quick, cheap stat gains. Repeat for batch 2 on each SSR. You should be able to farm enough SRs to raise 2 accessories to LV32 each week and get most of the stat benefits with very minimal investment, and postpone the expensive synths as long as possible.

[Unregistered]

How many accessory inventory slots would one recommend for that? Assuming one plans to do so for every element with at least a minimal of the 4 main kamihimes of each team.

[sanahtlig]

How many accessory inventory slots would one recommend for that? Assuming one plans to do so for every element with at least a minimal of the 4 main kamihimes of each team.
I maxed out my accessory capacity immediately. That's far more useful in the long term vs. a 10-roll in Gatcha that will likely net you nothing useful. The higher your capacity, the more efficiently you can combine.

[sanahtlig]

I made a tool for comparing Accessory loadouts, including effects. It includes primitive modeling of the effect of Affliction rate up. It's missing some of the effects that don't interest me because they look clearly inferior, such as Ability damage and Burst damage up.

Sanahtlig's Toolbox: Accessory comparison calculator (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PhfOAQk6EyK5l33ux_C4T-cexVIQp6D-_Hbd-OO1OmQ/edit#gid=2048404528)

[sanahtlig]

After considering the excellent gains that can be had from +affliction rate, I've invested in maxing several Rs and 1 SR and equipping them on my debuffers. My Cthulhu now has +6% affliction rate, providing an accuracy bonus to all 4 of her debuffs. Maxing Rs is a lot cheaper than SRs and SSRs, and the affliction rate bonus helps the entire team. I may forgo SSRs entirely and just find SRs with the bonuses I want, as SSRs are too rare to have much of a choice. SSRs stacked with ATK can be strong, but since every character in my team has a useful stat debuff, I'm not convinced the added ATK is worth the investment.

[fucka]

Whether this matters depends on how precious SSR accessories are to you. If you can clear rank 4, you should be getting about 1 superior-tier SSR per element per week as a drop. You can only cap about 1 per week anyway, so there's actually no need to purchase them from the shop. If you can't clear rank 4, then your priorities might change.

1 SSR per element per week? lol, if u are lucky u get 1 per month.

[Coconut]

I maxed out my accessory capacity immediately.What is the cap?

[sanahtlig]

What is the cap?
300, the same as everything else. And I still don't have enough space. It fills up at least twice a week.

[Slashley]

I don't think I've found a single Affliction accessory - not R, SR, much less SSR - in the last week or so. So I was entirely cramped in inventory space. I just wanted to make space...
8776

And yes, that is honestly the best SSR I've found so far, thank you very much. Status res+, Burst+ and Ability+ is bloody everywhere.

[LeCrestfallen]

have two ssr rings with mode gauge reduction :D
but no amon unleached to do rofl reduction.

[sanahtlig]

Ran the Water Rank 4 Accessory Quest today with my Water team and had more resists of Affliction resistance down on Mordred (4x) than Cthulhu's DEF debuff (1x with 3 stacks of affliction rate up). Affliction rate up seems to make a very noticeable difference, making previously unreliable debuffs fairly reliable. I now have 8 affliction rate up accessories, so I should be able to loadout pretty much my entire team with them.

[Slashley]

You have more Affliction accessories for Water than what I have across all elements...

Anyway, it'd be nice to to know how well the accessory Affliction compares to the Union Affliction buff. Since around 30-40 stacks there is enough to hit 100% hitrate on debuffs for off-element Hime. But if it it's that visible with 6%, then 1 Union Affliction stack is probably much less than 1%.

[sanahtlig]

You have more Affliction accessories for Water than what I have across all elements...
Keep in mind I'm counting Rs. The necklaces typically have affliction rate up. I've made sure not to use any Rs with useful buffs (affliction rate up, drop rate up) for enhancement.

[Slashley]

So have I! I have found these ever, all max level since there's so damn few:
1x Thunder SR with affliction, def (Thor)
1x Holy SR with affliction, +dbl (Sol)
2x fire R (Yamaraja)
2x water R (Ryu-Oh)
1x dark R (Nyarl)

Today I found Water SR Ring with only Affliction... not sure what I'll do with that. Leveling it to level 40 is a pain, and without a secondary effect it seems like such a waste... ... oh well, I guess I'll let my inventory fill up again and if there's no better target, Ryu-Oh is getting her set completed. Dear god she needs it, I'm pretty sure her Black Propaganda is lower success rate than what debuffs usually are.

Anyway, random is going to random. Maybe I'll get plenty of double Affliction SRs soon? Probably from Wind, where I don't have Oberon to give it to. Cybele is going to be happy.

I just wish that I had thought about using level 1 Rs with Drop Rate+ before you said it, I've probably enchanted a good amount of those away. Doh.

[Coconut]

So what's the recommended action for people who aren't good enough to get SSRs? Power up SRs, or sell?

[sanahtlig]

So what's the recommended action for people who aren't good enough to get SSRs? Power up SRs, or sell?
I'm strong enough to clear Rank 4, and I'm powering up Rs.

[CBW]

This is a bit late for the discussion, but since I found my way here, I thought I'd add my quick acc leveling guide to the discussion. We had a lot of discussion, I ran MANY simulations. I put up a little guide on my union's discord.

The best bang for the buck is to level your SR to level 21. Use 20 of those, whatever element they are and no matter if they "Supered" to level 27. The resulting SSR will be at least level 39 and will require no more than 20 additional level 21 fodder. You will never need a third enhance.

9620

Level 21 SR requires 8 R ( or 16 N) same element. You get enough materials from AQ3 to make 2 a day, with leftovers. More on the "leftovers" later.

I wrote this on level 21:


Why level 21? Actually, level 18 through 29 are possible choices.

As the level goes down, gem cost goes up and total drops (R & SR) go down. The problem is the increase in number of same element SRs skyrocket. At level 18, at least 50% (20) SRs must be same element. At level 21, that number drops to 20%. This is a little worse than the ratio 1 in 6, but there will be Super Successes. Level 21 is the minimum level to not get stuck with the wrong accessories.

As the level goes up, the gem cost goes down, but the total drops go up. At level 21, 400 accessory fodder are needed. At level 29, 620 fodder are needed. Fodder is the ultimate restriction. Level 21 is also the fastest.

In casual play, the cost of levelling an accessory doesn't dent my gems. This is where I use the "leftovers." I only farm AQ3, and I will get 3 SR drops and fodder to level 2 of them. The extras pile up, so I throw them unlevelled into the level 39+ SSR 5 at a time. The extra 20k gems means very little to me, but it can reduce the number of days I spend levelling an SSR from 20 down to 15. I currently anticipate taking 25 weeks to level my first full accessory set to 50. I won't touch AQ4.

BTW, I get lots of SSR in AQ3 and enough accessory points to buy 2 SSR a month. I use Snatch 3.

Regarding how to use the table:

The first column is the number of L21 SRs that you would need if they were all off element. At level 37, you would need 25 off element.

The second column is the number of same element you would need to keep the second enhance under 20. For example, if you have 10 same element, that is worth 15 off element.

The third element is the off element needed to complete the enhance. 25-15 = 10 off element needed. 10 off element + 10 same element = 20 fodder in 1 enhance.

You can substitute additional same element fodder at the rate of 2 same = 3 off. "Super'd" fodder is worth extra too. For those, I would use them first. You might end up paying 1-2k gems more in the end but save a day of farming.

[sanahtlig]

The problem with using low-level fodder like this is that you also have to use leveled fodder for the first batch. This increases the cost of the second batch, since you're synthing a higher level accessory (39 instead of 32). I don't have an issue with not being able to level accessories fast enough, as I don't have enough accessories worth leveling in the first place, especially SSRs. For my last SSR, I used the following recipe:
SSR 1-50
20 SR1 to LV32
8 same-element SR20, 7 same-element SR25, 3 same-element SR23, 2 SR20
66000 gems

That uses 18 same-element SRs, which takes 3 weeks of AQ4 to farm. That's faster than I acquire good SSRs worth leveling. I auto AQ3 with Mordred. Haven't tried with D'art, but it's worth a shot I suppose.

[CBW]

I don't have an issue with not being able to level accessories fast enough, as I don't have enough accessories worth leveling in the first place, especially SSRs.

I am almost done levelling my 4th SSR (I started a couple months late), but have already have 14 (9 drop, 2 from AQ4, and bought 3). I use Mordred w/ Snatch 3 in AQ3 (everywhere but Thunder where I use Sleipnir w/o Snatch).

There doesn't seem to be a shortage, but I'm a beggar, not a chooser.

[sanahtlig]

I have plenty of SSRs, just not ones I want to level.

https://i.gyazo.com/1c81727752016f0e3920616d76c42e2a.png
https://i.gyazo.com/75cfddb1de721e9e89203f6718425929.png
https://i.gyazo.com/bd12bc2a47c44845061ff129ef140bd5.png

[CBW]

There's no guide to cure "picky" lol.

[Slashley]

There's no guide to cure "picky" lol.I think the real question is...

Is it actually worth leveling just "any" SSR Accessory?

I think we can divide Accessory enigmas into four tiers:
T1 (in a complete different league of good): Affliction+ (rare)
T2 (great): Atk+ (rare), dbl+ (rare)
T3 (good): HP+ (uncommon), def(common), drop rate+ (rare)
T4 (utter trash): Gauge (common), ability+ (common), status res+ (uncommon), burst+ (rare)

T4 is just there to flood in garbage and should be ignored. The only difference between T2 and T3 is that the latter doesn't help in your damage output, and as such, some people might choose to ignore T3 as well. T1 is in its own power level, as nothing else can hope to compare to it. However, T1 doesn't apply to all Hime - only those who have debuffs can make use out of it.

Also, what are the differences between R, SR and SSR? Four things:
1. Rarity, you can get dozens of Rs every day, 6 SRs per day but only like 1 SSR a week (if even that).
2. Number of enigmas, most Rs with 1, most SRs with 2 and most SSRs with 3.
3. Base stats. Roughly 550 atk on R, 750 SR, 1200 SSR.
4. Number of materials required to reach level cap. 3145 for R, 7245 for SR, 13345 for SSR.

Now then. With the premise out of the way, finally to the point.

Is it really worth leveling up SSRs, just because they're SSRs?
Playing around with Sanahtlig's accessory comparison tool, at 40k Atk and 120% Assault (pretty normal for current stage of non-whale end-game), triple Rs with Atk ties with three SSRs of garbage. In attack, that is. The HP difference means that the SSRs pull ahead by a bit. Regardless, we're talking about a resource difference of 9435 vs. 40035! And if we're looking at Gem cost, it's 6k vs. 180k+. I don't know if Gems even matter to people playing the US anymore, but it matters to those poor souls who play in the EU.

So, triple Rs are about as good as triple SSRs. At the fraction of the cost. If an SSR has a T2 or even T3 ability, then they'll absolutely demolish the Rs, of course.

So, what about SRs, then?
Finding double T2 SRs is really, really tough. I think over the past months, I've found a total of...five, across all the elements combined. But because def+ is fairly common, it isn't unrealistic to find a multiple T2+T3 SRs per week. And, when it comes to these, three of them absolutely demolish three garbage tier SSRs. The SSRs need to have 3/9 T2/T3 to roughly tie, and 4/9 to just barely pull ahead. And seeing as almost all of those 3-4 is going to be def+, the SSRs will lose in damage. And this is at 21735 vs. 40035 resources spent.

So, triple SRs are far better than triple SSRs. Of course, if you get lucky and keep finding SSRs that have not just one T2, but also at least another T2/T3 enigma, then the SSRs will be far better.

The caveat of using Rs and SRs is that eventually, you might replace them. However, keep in mind that this is true with garbage tier SSRs as well. The gain from 6/9 T2/T3 SSRs and 0/9 SSRs is almost double. Because enigmas matter that much. This isn't realistic until AQ5 is released though - since until then, you get far too few SSRs to even find a single T2 reliably. But once you start finding 3x SSRs a day that is feasible.

Of course, the question then is, CAN you clear AQ5? There's quite a lot of doomsayers around, and only time will tell if playing smart will enable people to go around the barriers. But even playing smart, you will probably need key SSRs, which is not really feasible for non-whales. Time will tell.

[sanahtlig]

I roughly summarize the value of accessories using the following scoring system:
Rarity

1 for SR
2 for SSR

Buff: Using Slashley's criteria, total up the buff value. I heavily favor affliction rate up and always give these to my debuffers with debuffs that miss, regardless of rarity.

1 for tier 2
0.5 for tier 3
0.25 for tier 4 (I'd actually put rage meter reduction in T3, especially for attackers)

Value = Rarity + Buffs

SRs are plentiful, relatively easy to level, and give you a wide selection of T2/T3 buff combinations, so I favor these unless there's a deficit of more than 1 compared to R or SSR alternatives. In other words, unlike Slashley, I don't usually max Rs. The intended result of this scoring system is that if an SSR doesn't have at least 2 T2/T3 buffs, it typically loses to SRs by default.

Note that this is a simple scoring system I'm proposing to summarize findings using my Accessory Comparison tool, as detailed by Slashley. The scoring system may yield value approximations that are not consistent with actual value, either your's or mine. Use the tool when in doubt to evaluate simulated effects on effective HP and damage.

[QXZ]

wait... so u will level an R of affliction+ over an SSR with 3x ATK+?

[Cobblemaniac]

wait... so u will level an R of affliction+ over an SSR with 3x ATK+?

I think it all depends on what hime you're dealing with... what use is giving... let's say Ryu-Oh or Cthulhu a 3x atk if you clearly know that their debuffs are the thing you need more than their damage output? Then you deal with hime like Svarog... well it's the other way round.

[sanahtlig]

wait... so u will level an R of affliction+ over an SSR with 3x ATK+?
I don't even think I have an SSR with 2x ATK, much less 3x ATK. The Affliction Rs are cheap to level, free to remove, and increase damage comparably to 1-2 ATK buffs in most situations when equipped on appropriate characters.

[Yukichi]

Here are accessories leveling formulas based on AQ 4 and AQ 5 drop rate ratios

12425

[Slashley]

Here are accessories leveling formulas based on AQ 4 and AQ 5 drop rate ratios

12425Is this really optimal?

I've said it on other threads, but personally I use 1-2-3-4 to level up my SSRs. That's 1 N, 2 Rs, 13 SRs (totally the same as 3 right?) and 4 SSRs, all of the same element. The upside is, this gets you to late level 38, which is pretty much exactly the halfway point to level 50. That means that Super Successes get you straight to 50 without waste. Also, if you don't Super Success you can just slam another 1-2-3-4 into that Accessory and it'll hit 50, without waste.

Still, sometimes I'm short on SSRs, sometimes I'm short on SRs for this style. So again, how truly optimal is this chart?

[Yukichi]

Is this really optimal?

I've said it on other threads, but personally I use 1-2-3-4 to level up my SSRs. That's 1 N, 2 Rs, 13 SRs (totally the same as 3 right?) and 4 SSRs, all of the same element. The upside is, this gets you to late level 38, which is pretty much exactly the halfway point to level 50. That means that Super Successes get you straight to 50 without waste. Also, if you don't Super Success you can just slam another 1-2-3-4 into that Accessory and it'll hit 50, without waste.

Still, sometimes I'm short on SSRs, sometimes I'm short on SRs for this style. So again, how truly optimal is this chart?

Of course there is no "optimal formula"; our fodder inventory fluctuates like you demonstrated and we'll use whatever we have on hand. Just like yours the formula is in the range of the fodder received in 3 weeks x 3 AQs: 18 Rs - 18 to 27 SRs - 9 SSRs. However, it has a higher chance of getting enough SRs in that period of time (22 instead of 26), and a super success on the 1st step brings it to level 43 with 4,045 XP left to Lv 50 instead of 6,600 XP.

It was meant as a base to start from because people seemed to be looking for an efficient formula. I realize however that we don't enhance like clockwork because we are picky with the SSR we choose to level and it may take some time before getting a worthy one. I know that everyone will have a different approach and it wasn't meant to be written in stone. It's just one of the combinations available to enhance an SSR in 2 steps.

1242712428

The off-element SSR enhancing formula is designed to max one SSR of any element every week by completing 3x AQ everyday (including sunday)