SSR Gacha Ticket Question

[Skyryder]

The promo for the SSR weapon ticket says "ticket will not grant Kamihime release weapons". Does that mean it will only give you duplicate weapons you already have? You can't unlock a new kamihime with the ticket?

[Ikki]

The promo for the SSR weapon ticket says "ticket will not grant Kamihime release weapons". Does that mean it will only give you duplicate weapons you already have? You can't unlock a new kamihime with the ticket?

it means you get kamiless weapons, the ones you can buy with 15 draconic eyes.

[Skyryder]

it means you get kamiless weapons, the ones you can buy with 15 draconic eyes.

And you get those weapons 100% of the time? Is that worth it for the 2 pulls? I'm still "mid-game" trying to build a strong elemental deck so I can take on Ragnarok bosses. Still not there yet...

[Laventale]

And you get those weapons 100% of the time? Is that worth it for the 2 pulls? I'm still "mid-game" trying to build a strong elemental deck so I can take on Ragnarok bosses. Still not there yet...

Unless you have a shitton of hime weapons, it isn't worth it.

[sanahtlig]

Kamiless weapons are not terribly useful (unless you're a multi-thousand dollar whale) until the 4th Limit Break system is introduced along with farmable limit break ingots from Tower events. At that point they become the best weapons in the game. I actually bought two of these tickets myself because I wasn't paying attention. I'll just hold onto them I guess until they become potentially useful. Though there's not much benefit to limit-breaking these over the SSR kamihime weapons, which you'll have by definition if you're running a strong endgame build.

[MagicSpice]

the way i see it, those weapons are only good if you naturally pull them... cause one of them is giving me more Assault for one of my element grids (plus the wind gun i got lets me use D'Art on my wind team)... tickets that force them can be ignored...

i wouldn't go after those weapons.... at least not until you got all the kami weapons you'll need for that element at MLB (i got gaia's so much that her weapon is 2 stars...).

point is, they're good, but there's better and those non-kami weapons aren't necessary when you'll want to pull for the kami ones anyway (either for the girls themselves or the drag eyes)

[Slashley]

the way i see it, those weapons are only good if you naturally pull them... --You can't. They were removed from the gacha, and thank heavens for that.

As pointed out, those weapons will eventually become the best ones in the game. But that requires getting four copies of each. For anyone who doesn't LMB them, aka spend tens of thousands of dollars on them, they're trash tier. You're better off using SRs.

[MagicSpice]

You can't. They were removed from the gacha, and thank heavens for that.

As pointed out, those weapons will eventually become the best ones in the game. But that requires getting four copies of each. For anyone who doesn't LMB them, aka spend tens of thousands of dollars on them, they're trash tier. You're better off using SRs.

i got somewhat mixed feelings about that... i got a few copies of the wind gun and i have a wind bow from that i pulled a while back....

now they're pretty much just there....

means a better chance to get a kami weapon, but at the same time it means i'm likely not finishing what i started on those weapons. well, at least i got a decent supply of event SSR.... those at lv125 still give some good stats

[Saberborn]

How often does the game sell those purple limit breaking materials? I know they are in the shop... but only extreme whales can afford those. I've only seen it sold as part of the New Years gacha. Anyone know how often DMM has had those gachas? Even if it's once every quarter then over the span of 9 months you could have a MLB himeless SSR weapon.

[MagicSpice]

How often does the game sell those purple limit breaking materials? I know they are in the shop... but only extreme whales can afford those. I've only seen it sold as part of the New Years gacha. Anyone know how often DMM has had those gachas? Even if it's once every quarter then over the span of 9 months you could have a MLB himeless SSR weapon.

if that's the case, then promo timing is key and.... Nutaku can pretty much say screw DMM in that case...

i'm sure there's some things we'll get in line with DMM (like possibly miracle tickets), but i highly doubt some stuff will match up with them...

that honestly seems far more unreliable than just gacha-ing for the weapons considering all the unknowns, even though it's very convenient if it does happen (cause old raid weapons have to be in the raid gacha later on that can give stuff you missed or they can use some SSR breaks too)

[sanahtlig]

How often does the game sell those purple limit breaking materials? I know they are in the shop... but only extreme whales can afford those. I've only seen it sold as part of the New Years gacha. Anyone know how often DMM has had those gachas? Even if it's once every quarter then over the span of 9 months you could have a MLB himeless SSR weapon.
They're also farmable from Tower events.

[Wanderer]

Whales on DMM version regret not buying more of those when the final LB was implemented.

Best part is, they'll get the additional skill even w/o LB (while KH weapons require final LB).

But mind that NOT all of the kamiless SSRs are the best. 1/3 of them are defender weapons, which are not quite useful (except the fire hammer that gets assault as 2nd skill); and those getting combo atk rate skill are just okay; the burst and pride skills are truly the best (not available to Dark and Light though).

Even at this time, with no LB and no extra skill, the assault SSRs are comparable with good SRs, as their lower base stats are offset by higher skill effect.

[Slashley]

-- the burst -- skills are truly the best --Wait, what? Burst is usually a complete trash tier stat. I could look this up from the JP wiki, but save me the bother?

Also, rather than using the SSR limit break materials on the Shop weapons, wouldn't those be better used on Relic weapons?
Unless you're interesting in only one weapon for one element, the Regalia farm is likely going to be just utterly INSANE otherwise.

[Shieun]

I think the exceed is good because it gives you the same effect with Shingen's 2nd skill.

[Cobblemaniac]

Wait, what? Burst is usually a complete trash tier stat. I could look this up from the JP wiki, but save me the bother?


Saved you the bother and looked it up, it's apparently supposed to amplify burst damage and raise the damage cap of burst... if what Google translate says is accurate. Quite the useful tool for burst teams I'd wager.

[sanahtlig]

Putting aside the fact that two weapon skills are usually better than one, and you won't have a wide selection of SSR weapons to choose from, equippable Burst buffs are not especially good, and I explain why in my Accessory buff guide.

Remember that Burst damage starts with a 5x rather than a 1x multipler (for SSR kamihime). Therefore any Burst buff's effect should be divided by 5 to approximate the effect on damage. Shingen's ability is a +200% buff, which is why it's so powerful. To get the same effect with weapon skills, you'd need 7 SLVL20 (small effect) weapons, which would yield +42% Burst damage. Meanwhile, 7 equivalent Assault skill weapons would give you +70% character attack, or +31.5% damage. Would you rather have +31.5% damage all the time, or +42% damage on Bursts only?

In short, Shingen is good because her Burst buff (+42% Burst damage) is uncommonly strong vs. the alternatives available for character ATK (e.g., +9% damage from Arthur). Throughout the rest of the game, you don't see that same lopsided ratio.

[Cobblemaniac]

Putting aside the fact that two weapon skills are usually better than one, and you won't have a wide selection of SSR weapons to choose from, equippable Burst buffs are not especially good, and I explain why in my Accessory buff guide.

Remember that Burst damage starts with a 5x rather than a 1x multipler (for SSR kamihime). Therefore any Burst buff's effect should be divided by 5 to approximate the effect on damage. Shingen's ability is a +200% buff, which is why it's so powerful. To get the same effect with weapon skills, you'd need 7 SLVL20 (small effect) weapons, which would yield +42% Burst damage. Meanwhile, 7 equivalent Assault skill weapons would give you +70% character attack, or +31.5% damage. Would you rather have +31.5% damage all the time, or +42% damage on Bursts only?

In short, Shingen is good because her Burst buff (+42% Burst damage) is uncommonly strong vs. the alternatives available for character ATK (e.g., +9% damage from Arthur). Throughout the rest of the game, you don't see that same lopsided ratio.

Man, the damage calculation in this game is really dang complicated. What's the overall formula for burst calculation? Also, if the damage cap increase from the weapon burst buff I see in the JP wiki is actually valid, is that a good reason to run a dual skill weapon having burst buff?

[sanahtlig]

Man, the damage calculation in this game is really dang complicated. What's the overall formula for burst calculation? Also, if the damage cap increase from the weapon burst buff I see in the JP wiki is actually valid, is that a good reason to run a dual skill weapon having burst buff?

The formula is listed here, if you can read Japanese: http://xn--hckqz0e9cygq471ahu9b.xn--wiki-4i9hs14f.com/index.php?%E3%82%B2%E3%83%BC%E3%83%A0%E4%BB%95%E6% A7%98%E3%83%BB%E8%A8%88%E7%AE%97%E5%BC%8F#c85da2b9

The damage cap increase applies only to Burst damage, judging by the Japanese wording. It'll only help you if you're already at the cap, e.g., from Shingen's buff. My SSR kamihime's Burst damage shouldn't be any more than 500k, even with Shingen's full +100% buff, so I don't see the damage cap impacting me with current effects and equipment. With double +100% eidolons hitting the cap becomes more likely, but I don't expect to ever be in that situation. And in any case, this isn't practically relevant since the majority of endgame players right now don't have a full grid of SSRs, so that choosing between SSR weapons is even necessary.

[Wanderer]

Putting aside the fact that two weapon skills are usually better than one, and you won't have a wide selection of SSR weapons to choose from, equippable Burst buffs are not especially good, and I explain why in my Accessory buff guide.

Remember that Burst damage starts with a 5x rather than a 1x multipler (for SSR kamihime). Therefore any Burst buff's effect should be divided by 5 to approximate the effect on damage. Shingen's ability is a +200% buff, which is why it's so powerful. To get the same effect with weapon skills, you'd need 7 SLVL20 (small effect) weapons, which would yield +42% Burst damage. Meanwhile, 7 equivalent Assault skill weapons would give you +70% character attack, or +31.5% damage. Would you rather have +31.5% damage all the time, or +42% damage on Bursts only?

In short, Shingen is good because her Burst buff (+42% Burst damage) is uncommonly strong vs. the alternatives available for character ATK (e.g., +9% damage from Arthur). Throughout the rest of the game, you don't see that same lopsided ratio.

Good math, just totally missed the point, which is so obvious:
1. As Cobblemaniac said, the CAP.
2. Kamiless SSRs with burst skill have assualt skill as well.



The formula is listed here, if you can read Japanese: http://xn--hckqz0e9cygq471ahu9b.xn--wiki-4i9hs14f.com/index.php?%E3%82%B2%E3%83%BC%E3%83%A0%E4%BB%95%E6% A7%98%E3%83%BB%E8%A8%88%E7%AE%97%E5%BC%8F#c85da2b9

The damage cap increase applies only to Burst damage, judging by the Japanese wording. It'll only help you if you're already at the cap, e.g., from Shingen's buff. My SSR kamihime's Burst damage shouldn't be any more than 500k, even with Shingen's full +100% buff, so I don't see the damage cap impacting me with current effects and equipment. With double +100% eidolons hitting the cap becomes more likely, but I don't expect to ever be in that situation. And in any case, this isn't practically relevant since the majority of endgame players right now don't have a full grid of SSRs, so that choosing between SSR weapons is even necessary.

Majority of endgame players on DMM version (don't think Nutaku version is anything near "endgame") HAVE a full grid of SSRs and often hit the cap.

[Unregistered]

At its core, burst damage is {normal_attack_damage * (A + burst_buff)} + B
A and B depend on rarity (of the main weapon or the kamihime herself) as well as whether there's the improvement from 3* or not. A's the important one, B's just a small constant.
For your soul, A varies from 2 (R) to 4.5 (3* SSR). B varies from 1500 to 2500.
For kamihime, A varies from 3 (SR) to 5 (3* SSR) or 5.5 (awakened SSR). B scales at the same rate as for the soul. The table on the wiki actually doesn't list what A is for R's. Not that you'd use R's if you can avoid it... but I can say that burst damage overall is pretty lackluster with my fire team consisting of 3 R's :P

And to be complete, burst streak damage is based off of burst damage done that turn. Sum it up, then multiply by {1 / (7 - N)}, where N is the number of people. So you really want full bursts to make that 50%. Then multiply again by elemental advantage or disadvantage if there is one. If it seems like it can be double dipping for advantage here, it is. And then multiply yet again for any burst streak buffs, but those come from eidolon passives that you wouldn't be using if you have other options.
So in practice, if your soul leads off the burst streak with elemental advantage, expect the burst streak itself to add ~72.5% damage on top of all of the individual bursts.

[Unregistered]

If +burst is being prized on weapon skills, then it's because DMM players seem to be hunting for whatever that can directly increase their burst damage. It's really just assault, pride, exceed, and stinger that do that. Stinger assumes that you're going to be leveraging elemental advantage, so I'm assuming here the DMM players in question aren't rocking endgame teams of all elements. The +double and +triple skills would increase the rate at which you can burst over the long term, but not the damage of any individual burst. Said players presumably aren't all that worried about frequency of bursts. Nor do they seem to need +HP or +healing.

What I'm curious about is, whenever vigoras (think opposite of pride) gets implemented, would players want that? If vigoras as a weapon skill actually applies a ousei/vigorous buff, then things get interesting. Ousei/Vigorous is listed as something that gets counted in otherBuffs. (if you don't know what direction I'm hinting at here, go back to the normal attack damage formula).

[sanahtlig]

What I'm curious about is, whenever vigoras (think opposite of pride) gets implemented, would players want that? If vigoras as a weapon skill actually applies a ousei/vigorous buff, then things get interesting. Ousei/Vigorous is listed as something that gets counted in otherBuffs. (if you don't know what direction I'm hinting at here, go back to the normal attack damage formula).
That's wishful thinking. Vigor is more like a status effect, while Vigorous is a weapon skill effect that is likely implemented as the inverse of Pride (character attack increases at high % HP). Either way there will be an inconsistency of sorts, but Vigor is more likely to be multiplicative with Vigorous (which justifies running them together) than for Vigorous to be multiplicative with character ATK, making it a stronger effect than Pride (which wouldn't make sense for a mirrored effect).

[MagicSpice]

now that it's mentioned, how good does assault compare to vigor/pride?

given the constant changes in HP, i'm sure there's an average in the boost you get from vigor and pride