Accessory Quest Rank 5 Discussion

[sanahtlig]

Accessory Quest Rank 5 will likely be introduced Christmas 2018. These use the same materials as Rank 3 to spawn, always drop an SSR accessory, and can drop an upgraded "Ancient" SSR accessory with higher stats and stronger effects.

Rank 5 is extremely difficult. The final boss has a 5-orb overdrive meter, and uses a lethal AoE overdrive (normal or raging). This must be near-total mitigated using damage cuts and elemental resistance, or the boss must be stunned before it can use it. I've outlined both strategies in my Endurance (https://docs.google.com/document/d/19K_dU3rCief_ajPGS9YBuVdxXBYFyCGGXAxYYyK0jzg/edit#heading=h.4t1e0zy30bsl) and Rapid Burst (https://docs.google.com/document/d/19K_dU3rCief_ajPGS9YBuVdxXBYFyCGGXAxYYyK0jzg/edit#heading=h.qzabg44s5ml6) builds.

Furthermore, AQ5 bosses have high affliction resistance, combo attack frequently, and hit hard (~3k/hit without debuffs). Landing debuffs on a boss of the same element is likely to be extremely difficult. Elemental advantage can ameliorate the affliction resistance to some extent, but then you have to commit to raising every single grid and spending a lot of money on SSR Kamihime Gatcha.

You can get a taste of what fighting one of these bosses could be like with a typical team without elemental advantage from these videos. I picked these videos in particular because the users don't trivialize the fight with 2x +100% eidolons or other cheese that won't be available to most players.

Light team against Light boss, using a single +100% eidolon and a Light Versatile build with Mordred


https://youtu.be/Syp1F-3f4Ys?t=315

Light team against random-element boss using a cobbled-together Endurance build with Joan, Gaia, and a single +100% eidolon


https://youtu.be/INJy5hD4A4c?t=616

Note that he would've taken 0 damage from the Overdrive with Joan's HP Relic weapon, and a similar team with Joan's weapon could mitigate damage equivalently with an SR Dragoon instead of Gaia, or much better with an SSR Kaiser. This video is useful because the player doesn't rely on DEF debuffs that might miss and cause the fight to play out differently.

Why bring this up now? Because we'll need to use Miracle tickets strategically to be able to defeat these. I'm personally trying to determine which would be more effective: a combination of one excellent Wind team and an ok Water team, or a single excellent Light team. The Light team has the advantage of built-in affliction resistance down with Light Tsukuyomi. A comparable Wind Endurance build would need to run Black Propaganda (and therefore wouldn't have access to Vicissitudes of Fortune), while a Rapid Burst build could run VoF, but would likely be extremely dependent on DEF down landing. The Rapid Burst build would be unlikely to survive 1 Overdrive with -50% ATK down and 70% damage resistance (Gaia + SSR Kaiser).

Edit 3/30/18: Added the Light Versatile build video from Yolo's post.

[Cobblemaniac]

Accessory Quest Rank 5 will likely be introduced Christmas 2018. These use the same materials as Rank 3 to spawn, always drop an SSR accessory, and can drop an upgraded "Ancient" SSR accessory with higher stats and stronger effects.

Rank 5 is extremely difficult. The final boss has a 5-orb overdrive meter, and uses a lethal AoE overdrive (normal or raging). This must be near-total mitigated using damage cuts and elemental resistance, or the boss must be stunned before it can use it. I've outlined both strategies in my Endurance (https://docs.google.com/document/d/19K_dU3rCief_ajPGS9YBuVdxXBYFyCGGXAxYYyK0jzg/edit#heading=h.4t1e0zy30bsl) and Rapid Burst (https://docs.google.com/document/d/19K_dU3rCief_ajPGS9YBuVdxXBYFyCGGXAxYYyK0jzg/edit#heading=h.qzabg44s5ml6) builds.

Furthermore, AQ5 bosses have high affliction resistance, combo attack frequently, and hit hard (~3k/hit without debuffs). Landing debuffs on a boss of the same element is likely to be extremely difficult. Elemental advantage can ameliorate the affliction resistance to some extent, but then you have to commit to raising every single grid and spending a lot of money on SSR Kamihime Gatcha.

You can get a taste of what fighting one of these bosses could be like with a typical team without elemental advantage from this video. (Note that he would've taken 0 damage from the Overdrive with Joan's HP Relic weapon, and a similar team with Joan's weapon could mitigate damage equivalently with an SR Dragoon instead of Gaia, or much better with an SSR Kaiser). I picked this video in particular because the user doesn't trivialize the fight with 2x +100% eidolons or other cheese that won't be available to most players, nor is he relying on DEF debuffs that might miss and cause the fight to play out entirely differently.

video

Why bring this up now? Because we'll need to use Miracle tickets strategically to be able to defeat these. I'm personally trying to determine which would be more effective: a combination of one excellent Wind team and an ok Water team, or a single excellent Light team. The Light team has the advantage of built-in affliction resistance down with Light Tsukuyomi. A comparable Wind Endurance build would need to run Black Propaganda (and therefore wouldn't have access to Vicissitudes of Fortune), while a Rapid Burst build could run VoF, but would likely be extremely dependent on DEF down landing. The Rapid Burst build would be unlikely to survive 1 Overdrive with -50% ATK down and 70% damage resistance (Gaia + SSR Kaiser).

That does make me curious: How does a Cthulhu SSR Nike Snow Raphy combo hold up in AQ5?

[Slashley]

Against Fire? I'd assume they'll have no issues, with Cthulhu and Water Raphael working on those Orbs.

Off element? Unknown. The good news is, HP Relic Joan with Water Raphael can drop damage by 90%. When combined with any Dragoon of the proper element (SR or SSR), you can mitigate 100% of damage... twice. That leaves you with... something like 18 turns to deal 7.5m off-element damage. Should be doable.

There's two problems though. This means that you need to have access to ALL element of Dragoons. SSRs can just be bought for a mere 10k Eidolon Orbs. One or two is doable. Six? ... that's a lot of work.
Secondly, you might get torn down by the normal attacks. If you don't get your atk debuffs to land, the boss will hurt a lot. Losing out on a full burst during those 18 turns might cause a wipe.

[sanahtlig]

The standard Water trio should fare as well as any other element--against its strong element, at least. You could make that into an Endurance build with Joan, or a Rapid Burst build with Athirat. The Rapid Burst build will require one of the Overdrive reductions or Charm to land, and if Cthulhu's misses she won't make the 2nd Burst without taking a hit or combo attacking. That's probably an acceptable risk--bit a risk nonetheless. You could also run Black Propaganda, but I'd be very hesitant to run a Water team without VoF and no elemental advantage.

Don't quote videos please. It slows the page loads.


Off element? Unknown. The good news is, HP Relic Joan with Water Raphael can drop damage by 90%. When combined with any Dragoon of the proper element (SR or SSR), you can mitigate 100% of damage... twice. That leaves you with... something like 18 turns to deal 7.5m off-element damage. Should be doable.
Something I forgot to mention initially is that due to the Rage cooldown penalty, there's only a 5T CD on the 2nd Overdrive. You have to get that up to 7 in order to block the second one. It's dangerous to assume that both your overdrive reductions will land. So you'd have to bring Black Propaganda, which means you can't bring VoF, and then you have to start playing the debuff gamble game.

[Unregistered]

Is there much leeway in r5 quests? I'm a little worried my secondary team wont be able to handle to farming accessories for my main element as they have had no miracle tickets used on em, thus imperfect unlike my main team who holds all my strong SSRs. Using an off element team for a r5 seems like it might be very difficult, unlike r4.

[Slashley]

AQ4 was supposed to be really hard, but once we got used to it, it wasn't that bad.

Time will tell...

[sanahtlig]

Is there much leeway in r5 quests? I'm a little worried my secondary team wont be able to handle to farming accessories for my main element as they have had no miracle tickets used on em, thus imperfect unlike my main team who holds all my strong SSRs. Using an off element team for a r5 seems like it might be very difficult, unlike r4.
I'm doubtful that a secondary team would be as strong as your primary team without element advantage / disadvantage at play.

[Yolodesu]

AQ4 was supposed to be really hard, but once we got used to it, it wasn't that bad.

Time will tell...

^This.
On the vid, the fight looks extremely tough because the guy is running a sustain build (without reaching -50% atk) + an off element KH, with only 12% def down trough eidolon, and no element advantage. His damage output is really low (its pretty low even according to Nutaku's actual standards).

Sanahtlig is talking about ppl squeezing the fight, but most of the time they are just overkilling the boss (Fire team with Shingen and x2 Bellial one shooting it without Mars' debuff, Light team with Nike going trough the rage phase without even using his 2 full burst, Water team with water Osiris not using his burst just to lol at the boss overdrive doing 0 damage, all of them without element advantage)
Just tip アクセ5層 on youtube and see by yourself

I wouldn't worry too much honestly. If your team is (or your teams are) properly levelled (and optimized if you're running a main team without element advantage) there is no reason to not clear it in the end

[Slashley]

The problem is that most YouTube videos are from enormous whales. Like, the last boss "only" has 7.5m HP. That's exactly the burst damage cap, for off-element. So whenever you see somebody oneshot the bosses, you should be thinking "uh, is that realistically possible or not...?"

For non-whales, reaching damage cap is really, really, REALLY hard. Like, using a calculator, I could be using double Kirin (which I don't have) against Water, with a full SSR team (which I don't have), with -50% Def (which I don't have without Dartagnan) and I'd be able to reach 3.7m Burst WITH Provisional Forest.

Sure, my base attack and slightly my grid would improve over the many months before AQ5 comes here, but it's really difficult to imagine going above 5m Burst...

[sanahtlig]

Sanahtlig is talking about ppl squeezing the fight, but most of the time they are just overkilling the boss (Fire team with Shingen and x2 Bellial one shooting it without Mars' debuff, Light team with Nike going trough the rage phase without even using his 2 full burst, Water team with water Osiris not using his burst just to lol at the boss overdrive doing 0 damage, all of them without element advantage)
Just tip アクセ5層 on youtube and see by yourself
To which I pose the following questions, all for teams without elemental advantage:
What if you don't have limited SSR kamihime, a +100% eidolon, access to a +100% friend eidolon, or any MLB Gatcha SSR weapons?
What if your DEF debuffs miss?
What if your ATK debuffs and/or other debuffs (like overdrive extension, reduction) miss?
Do you have any way to ensure that any critical debuffs will usually land, especially against same-element?

That's the scenario I'm trying to plan and write guides for.

[Yolodesu]

@Slashley
Yeah i agree with you, and i've never said the opposite. The fire guy was obviously a big whale and i don't expect any regular player to do the same thing. But mate, we are talking about someone one shooting a boss, he's not even playing anymore at this point.

What i'm saying is that, its hard content, not undoable content, and imo ppl are worrying a lot for nothing.

Look at this one (who is a whale as well) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syp1F-3f4Ys
He has better than average weapon grid for sure, but on the other side his team has nothing too fancy and is reachable trough miracle ticket (looks like mine; Artemis put aside), his Eidolons are obtainable trough events (he only has mlb Fafnir but on the downside, his friends eidolon is only 92%), his main eidolon is the 45% from raid, he is using Mordred, which isn't really the top damage soul, and doesn't have PF.
Despite all of this, it only takes 2 turns to get from 0 trough stun phase.

Now you, Slashley, are doing this.
Your weapon grid isn't that great but you optimize your team, either by doing a sustain build to be able to tank one overdrive, or doing a PF build to quickly nuke the rage phase.
Maybe your team comp isn't that great because you're a rainbow user, but then you're relying on element advantage.
It takes more turns for you to kill the boss, you're like "oh crap" when a debuff miss or one of your KH gets 3x hit, you'll die sometimes because of shitty RNG, but its not undoable.
AS you said, just as AQ4 actually is.

@Sanahtlig
Friend eidolon isn't really an issue. Even if no one wants to be your friend, lets say cause some ppl thinks you have a huge ego (don"t get triggered! i'm not one of them :p ), that's 3 quest per days only. You can still wait for a random to show up.
Debuff missing or bad rng in general is a problem, but its already the case. rng is rng... By that time, if your team doesn't include either Sphynx, Vof or debuff rate accessory on crucial KH to minimize the risks, it means that you did not prepare correctly.

edit : forgot 2 "L" among the post

[Cobblemaniac]

Debuff missing or bad rng in general is a problem, but its already the case. rng is rng... By that time, if your team doesn't include either Sphynx, Vof or debuff rate accessory on crucial KH to minimize the risks, it means that you did not prepare correctly.

Indeed, that is the case we're dealing with: using VoF/ accessories to optimise debuff landing, and even they themselves are RNG in their own right.

What I think Sana is trying to look for is a team build setup that doesn't rely (or at least heavily) on setting up a buff count that hits the debuff cap considering the miss rates. Given that such a team exists, RNG can't RNG you to lose the quest.

[sanahtlig]

Look at this one (who is a whale as well) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syp1F-3f4Ys
He has better than average weapon grid for sure, but on the other side his team has nothing too fancy and is reachable trough miracle ticket (looks like mine; Artemis put aside), his Eidolons are obtainable trough events (he only has mlb Fafnir but on the downside, his friends eidolon is only 92%), his main eidolon is the 45% from raid, he is using Mordred, which isn't really the top damage soul, and doesn't have PF.
This is more convincing than other videos I've seen, although I have no idea what his weapon grid looks like--whether he has access to unusual weapons that most players wouldn't have. But relying on +100% eidolons isn't a viable long-term strategy that I could recommend for all players. If you're planning to run this 3x a day, and you only have time for 1-2 sessions a day, then having a +100% eidolon available every time isn't feasible.

However, with all of those caveats, AQ5 seems doable with full debuffs with the sort of standard builds we already use for AQ4--just maxed out with a full SSR team. The difference here is that debuffs will be more likely to miss. A Rapid Burst build would likely be more resistant to debuff RNG--if you can pull it off.

[Yolodesu]

I have no idea what his weapon grid looks like--whether he has access to unusual weapons that most players wouldn't have

Well, with final lb, some gacha weapon have more than 3K atk (the max i've seen after a quick check on jp wiki is 3k4)

IF we can afford some LB material (i have no idea how much we can get with farming), then some KH weapon, which are supposedly easier to get, are around 3k atk when mlb (more or less) It also gain a buff on its skills, or get a new one, just as event weapons.

For example, Michael's spear hits 2k9 atk and gain defender.
Sol's gun is "only" 2k6 atk, but gain an interesting ascension skill.

That's why ppl should keep all the KH weapon they drop.

That being said, the guy on the vid i've linked has 57k atk. It doesn't seems that high to me.
If i compare with my account, i have 47k atk with 2/3 of my weapons being SR, shitty accessory (i only have a single one that isn't a ring or a SR, and i've been farming light AQ4 every weeks :frown:), i miss two strong eidolons (namely Sphynx and Mii :cry:).

The difference between the two of us is that i'll struggle to reach that on a single team, while he is running 6 teams this way.

[sanahtlig]

Well, with final lb, some gacha weapon have more than 3K atk (the max i've seen after a quick check on jp wiki is 3k4)
I'm guessing that the weapon skills have a more significant impact on damage than the base attack increase. And I can't gauge those by looking at the ATK score.

[QXZ]

can someone explain to me in the Light Versatile build video - why does Mordred have snipershot? isnt that overkill on the debuff?

[Aidoru]

That was a nice video, good to know off elements won't be as much of an issue as I was worrying about.

With 6 light SSRs and Mordred, I have 50.3k atk. I still have one weapon 2/3 break (a 2nd xmas sword), my Tsukyomi isn't max level and a couple accessory slots are still empty. Though still probably wouldn't break 52k atk. The difference between his damage and mines is tremendous though, like his Eros hitting 250k (@5:48) with her skill, ridiculous.

As for relying on 100% eidolons, I don't think that's much of an issue. You can just use a random players and if really dedicated, you can make an alt with it. I might for the light eidolon. Though if you noticed, he honestly didn't even need to use its full effect either, especially considering he didn't even use half of his sub eidolons in battle and still had 5 turns left before the overdrive. Meaning he had more than enough to reach the damage check and it seems once you get it into stun, you're basically done as the boss never left the state before it died.

Think my priority now for soul weapon is Mordred and Hercules.


can someone explain to me in the Light Versatile build video - why does Mordred have snipershot? isnt that overkill on the debuff?

To reach -50% atk/def with his party since he's not using debuff eidolons and possibly to help with clearing stage 1 trash faster since it targets all enemies.

[Yolodesu]

I'm guessing that the weapon skills have a more significant impact on damage than the base attack increase. And I can't gauge those by looking at the ATK score.

You were wondering what whales have access to. The only difference between Gacha and event weapon is the base atk. I guess the real damage difference comes from +100% eido and Heroic weapon (also proper accessory. I can already see the difference between my KH equipped with 9% atk and the others)


can someone explain to me in the Light Versatile build video - why does Mordred have snipershot? isnt that overkill on the debuff?

It's not overkill at all. It allows you to reach the debuff cap, which makes a real difference. Also compared to outrage, it has a shorter cd and hit multiple targets.



you can make an alt with it. I might for the light eidolon
Think my priority now for soul weapon is Mordred and Hercules.

Aye! I will do the same. I wouldn't mind sharing our alt account like the poor man we are :wink:



Think my priority now for soul weapon is Mordred and Hercules.

Atm i think about Hercules > Morgan > Mordred.

i guess i might change my mind depending on when Morgan's balance patch occurs.

[fucka]

fire doenst even need fb to stun the boss, AW Acala alone solves.