Consolidated Dark Team Topic

[QXZ]

Hi guys,

I want to create a thread focused around Dark Team to help other players running Dark as well as getting feedback if I am wrong. Most of the information here is based on Sanahtlig's Guide, modified for comments from other experienced players. I currently don't have a Dark team, so my knowledge is limited. I do plan to build a Dark team, so any corrections will be appreciated.

Dark Element
Dark element has high dmg but limited versatility. This means if you choose (or RNG choose for you) one path, there may be no turning back. Because of this, Dark is not very friendly to non-spending players.

Souls
Mordred - This is the go-to soul for most beginners. Valued for her Black Propaganda and debuffs from Outrage.

D'Art - Usually the 2nd Legendary soul. Valued for her Sniper Shot debuff.

Andromeda - Compensates for Dark's lack of healing - conditionally useful if you are skipping Osiris.

Hercules - Used for end game dmg build, alternative to Shingen

Morgan - Used for end game dmg build, relies on rampaging attacks

Shingen - Used for end game max burst build

Kamihime

Hades - Valued for her ATK debuff. She has no substitute, making her irreplaceable in Dark teams.

Osiris - Healer and burst meter buffer. She has no substitute. But some players go glass canon.

Satan or Amon - Valued for their DEF debuff. Since they are both A frame, pick one or the other. (Unconfirmed: Amon's debuff changes to C frame, allowing Satan AND Amon to be on the same team. ETA is March 2019.)

Dark Amaterasu - Best Dark Hime. But shes limited edition, so if you don't already have her, just move on.

WARNING: IF YOU DID NOT ROLL EITHER OF THE ABOVE, YOU SHOULD REROLL YOUR ACCOUNT OR CHOOSE A DIFFERENT ELEMENT! (unless you roll the 100% Dark Eido)
If you got 1 of them, buy a Miracle Ticket (when available) and get another hime from the list above.

If you got Osiris
Pluto - Dmg cut and burst bonus pairs well with Osiris

If you got Amon
Samael - Release in Dec 2018. She brings 25% elemental debuff, and therefore can not be used with Satan.

If you got Satan
Thanatos - Like Satan, shes a DATA attacker. She has the rare C frame DEF debuff.

Eidolons

Evil Kaiser Dragoon - Only use this as secondary eido. The 30% elemental buff combos well with Dark's focus on dmg.

Takemikazuchi, Sleipnir or Jack o Lantern - Allows (or greatly helps) you to run PF Burst builds without Shingen.

Popular Builds

Offensive Build - Any Soul + Hades / Satan or Amon / Osiris / Pluto (per Sanahtlig's Guide)
Generic dmg build. This setup requires Sniper shot to maintain high debuffs. Works well with Shingen for max burst.

Morgan Rampage Build - Morgan /w SS + Hades / Satan / Osiris / Thanatos
Both Satan and Thanatos benefit from Rampage.

[QXZ]

I am sticking this random post here instead of creating a new thread.

End Game++ Meta
By end game, I mean currently available highest level Nutaku content. End game+ means currently available highest level DMM content. End game++ means future content available in DMM - and hopefully Nutaku, thereafter. My discussion about end game++ is purely hypothetical.

The Money
DMM/Nutake are here to make money. The build that cost the most money is Elemental Advantage - a) having full SSR teams for each element, b) 60x full break, full slvl SSR wpns and c) 36x SSR eidos. This is the perfect set. And cost the most money to build. DMM/Nutaku want you to be here.

It then follows that Quad Element (Fire/Water/Thunder/Wind) makes the 2nd most money, Duo Element (ie Light/Dark) makes the 3rd most, Single Element 4th most and FTP makes the least.

When the game was first launched, even a team of maxed R himes can clear the highest content. This is good for building a player base and spread the word, but its bad for making money. Content then got a little harder. To clear max difficulty, you need at least a fully stacked Single Element team. It won't be long until even harder content gets released that requires Duo or Quad or EA teams. This is not only necessary to make money, but also keeping the game challenging and provide a money sink for whale spenders. The End Game++ will be all about Elemental Advantage. However, an intelligent game designer will not make this game into a "pay to win" for obvious reasons.

The Miracle
The Miracle ticket was an ingenious design. It fills the gap between whales that spend a lot of money and FTP players that spends no money. By spending a modest to moderate amount of cash, a player can remain practically competitive. And realistically, thats where DMM/Nutaku wants most players to be.

Players intending to rely on miracle tickets (and only miracle tickets) should begin with Single Element, then move on to Duo, and Quad. It also means that staying on Single Element for too long is BAD. Because a Dark Team with 8 SSR himes is always inferior to Light and Dark teams with 4 SSR each - as the 5th SSR hime will go into reserve and give you very little advantage.

The Trinity
In End Game++, most ppl should move onto multi element. To have an effective multi element team, the following himes are core to each element - per Sanahtlig's guide. (https://docs.google.com/document/d/19K_dU3rCief_ajPGS9YBuVdxXBYFyCGGXAxYYyK0jzg/edit)

Trinity of Light - Sol / L Tsukuyomi / SSR Artemis
Trinity of Dark - Hades / Osiris / Satan or Amon
Trinity of Fire - Amaterasu / Mars / Svarog
Trinity of Water - Cthulhu / Snow Raphael / SSR Nike
Trinity of Thunder - Mammon / Raiko / Athena
Trinity of Wind - SSR Cybele / Hastur / Gaia (defensive) or Titania (offensive)

[BlazeAlter]

I checked JP wiki the other day, and Amon's A frame 25% def debuff actually changed to a C frame and is no longer single target
So in the future she might be a better choice than Thanatos if the player isn't running a burst build I suppose?
9667
She also gets other nice stuff

[artista]

Right now im running Hades , Amon U, Osiris and Susanoo and i dont even know if i should waste my eyes to awaken susanoo as they come really slow and thanatos is really close to be released.

I only wish i was able to grab dark amaterasu but i didnt play the game when she was released sadly.

[LeCrestfallen]

Thats some really insane amon buffs. Will still most likely use my lovely satan instead :D

[sanahtlig]

Thats some really insane amon buffs. Will still most likely use my lovely satan instead :D
The point is now you can use either or both--and it looks like they now synergize. Before the buff, Satan (AW) was clearly superior. Unfortunately, many Dark teams will still be running Sniper Shot since Dark doesn't have many options for -ATK (other than SR and Rs).

[Aidoru]

Those changes to Amon look like they basically bench Thanatos, unless she get's an awakening. This is pretty important to factor for us since she was originally a high miracle ticket priority for dark for reaching def down cap but depending on how long you're planning to play the game, this means she drops to just another SSR for damage if you have both already Amon and Satan already and can spend your future ticket elsewhere.

[LeCrestfallen]

Its still one year ahead, well, might switch to pluto then instead of thana with the next ticket? (should she be available then)

[BlazeAlter]

Its still one year ahead, well, might switch to pluto then instead of thana with the next ticket? (should she be available then)

i think theres a high chance pluto will be included on the next ticket since the next one might be at late july/early august, and pluto gets released during pride reprint (which is... somewhere at may i think?)

[Unregistered]

The point is now you can use either or both--and it looks like they now synergize. Before the buff, Satan (AW) was clearly superior. Unfortunately, many Dark teams will still be running Sniper Shot since Dark doesn't have many options for -ATK (other than SR and Rs).

People with Dark Ama will mostly run with Ambush or not?
Wouldn't Lu Bu be a good substitute for her? I don't understand why she is so great/important in a dark team.
Is it because of versatility?

[BlazeAlter]

People with Dark Ama will mostly run with Ambush or not?
Wouldn't Lu Bu be a good substitute for her? I don't understand why she is so great/important in a dark team.
Is it because of versatility?

i think its because she offers both sniper shot and black propaganda, and this would allow u to run another soul besides mordred w/ sniper shot or having ur ex slot be something else besides these 2 skills

[Unregistered]

i think its because she offers both sniper shot and black propaganda, and this would allow u to run another soul besides mordred w/ sniper shot or having ur ex slot be something else besides these 2 skills

Seriously? Isn't that a little bit OP? She is an all in one packet.
That basically means a team with:
- Dark Ama
- Osiris
- Hades
- Satan/Thanatos/Amon Unleashed (next year)
- Shingen with Ambush or other offense Soul with Ambush... + Vine you will reach -50 attack and def.

That would be the "perfect" dark team and what if I want to use Pluto?

[BlazeAlter]

Seriously? Isn't that a little bit OP? She is an all in one packet.
That basically means a team with:
- Dark Ama
- Osiris
- Hades
- Satan/Thanatos/Amon Unleashed (next year)
- Shingen with Ambush or other offense Soul with Ambush... + Vine you will reach -50 attack and def.

That would be the "perfect" dark team and what if I want to use Pluto?

yeah, she's very good and the only problem with her is that she's limited edition which means not everyone can get her unless they get lucky

i actually haven't thought of a situation like that since I never got dark amat (and i dont know if im ever planning to get her since im not a whale)
you'd probably have to sacrifice one of those other himes you mentioned if you wanna squeeze pluto in I suppose

you could also consider Samael in the future because she offers dark RST debuff 25% and she has a debuff nuke like yamaraja's I think

[Unregistered]

yeah, she's very good and the only problem with her is that she's limited edition which means not everyone can get her unless they get lucky

i actually haven't thought of a situation like that since I never got dark amat (and i dont know if im ever planning to get her since im not a whale)
you'd probably have to sacrifice one of those other himes you mentioned if you wanna squeeze pluto in I suppose

you could also consider Samael in the future because she offers dark RST debuff 25% and she has a debuff nuke like yamaraja's I think

You mean something like that:
- Dark Ama
- Osiris
- Hades
- Satan/Samael/Thanatos/Amon U (next year)

Crap... that she is limited.
Satan and Samael would probably have a higher priority than Thanatos because they both offer -25% def down but then I can't run Ambush with Satan.
Debuff nuke? Dosen't Hades already offer a debuff nuke?

I could also use Pluto instead of Osiris and Cassiopeia or Andromeda as Soul.
But how effective is Pluto?

[BlazeAlter]

You mean something like that:
- Dark Ama
- Osiris
- Hades
- Satan/Samael/Thanatos/Amon U (next year)

Crap... that she is limited.
Satan and Samael would probably have a higher priority than Thanatos because they both offer -25% def down but then I can't run Ambush with Satan.
Debuff nuke? Dosen't Hades already offer a debuff nuke?

I could also use Pluto instead of Osiris and Cassiopeia or Andromeda as Soul.
But how effective is Pluto?

if you can already cover ambush with someone else like Satan/Amon U, then just run sniper shot w/ mordred (assuming you dont have dark amat and you want both sniper shot and black propaganda)

Uh no I don't think hades does that lol. what i meant with debuff nuke is that it deals damage based on the number of afflictions on the enemy (which would go well with mordred I guess but Samael also provides the same DoTs mordred does too i think, she also offers a combo atk down with it)
and if im reading this right, her dark res debuff 25% also comes with VoF

They would provide better heal, but not the +15 burst gauge that Osiris would give (it actually comes in handy in case u want to burst 1 turn early)
Pluto provides a 30% damage cut w/ light res 20% for the team, and also gives an atk buff w/ dark buff for the entire team also

as the first post said, she goes well with Osiris cuz she would increase your burst damage with her buffs
plus u can never go wrong with a damage cut for the entire team

[Unregistered]

if you can already cover ambush with someone else like Satan/Amon U, then just run sniper shot w/ mordred (assuming you dont have dark amat and you want both sniper shot and black propaganda)

Uh no I don't think hades does that lol. what i meant with debuff nuke is that it deals damage based on the number of afflictions on the enemy (which would go well with mordred I guess but Samael also provides the same DoTs mordred does too i think, she also offers a combo atk down with it)
and if im reading this right, her dark res debuff 25% also comes with VoF

They would provide better heal, but not the +15 burst gauge that Osiris would give (it actually comes in handy in case u want to burst 1 turn early)
Pluto provides a 30% damage cut w/ light res 20% for the team, and also gives an atk buff w/ dark buff for the entire team also

as the first post said, she goes well with Osiris cuz she would increase your burst damage with her buffs
plus u can never go wrong with a damage cut for the entire team

Nice discussion here.

I have a similar question regarding my current dark team. I have dark ama and osiris.
In my case I should just get Hades (with the current miracle ticket) + Thanatos, Samael or Amon and use ambush as a ex skill.
However it's indifferent for which one I decide for my 4th SSR Hime (Thanatos, Samael or Amon) because I will need Ambush as a ex skill or not?

Is Pluto a must-have hime for a dark team, if I have dark ama?

[Unregistered]

VoF

What does that mean?

[artista]

You mean something like that:
- Dark Ama
- Osiris
- Hades
- Satan/Samael/Thanatos/Amon U (next year)

Crap... that she is limited.
Satan and Samael would probably have a higher priority than Thanatos because they both offer -25% def down but then I can't run Ambush with Satan.
Debuff nuke? Dosen't Hades already offer a debuff nuke?

I could also use Pluto instead of Osiris and Cassiopeia or Andromeda as Soul.
But how effective is Pluto?

Honestly i run that team with the exception of dark amaterasu and if i was to build a perfect dark team next year i would rather swap osiris cause her heal isnt great and shes only useful for burst.

I would go : Dark Ama, Hades, Satan and Amon.
I say this with the change to Amon in mind as she can pair with Satan by that time.

Considering Dark Ama is not available anymore i aim for this team in 1 year: Hades, Satan, Amon and Pluto.

[BlazeAlter]

Nice discussion here.

I have a similar question regarding my current dark team. I have dark ama and osiris.
In my case I should just get Hades (with the current miracle ticket) + Thanatos, Samael or Amon and use ambush as a ex skill.
However it's indifferent for which one I decide for my 4th SSR Hime (Thanatos, Samael or Amon) because I will need Ambush as a ex skill or not?

Is Pluto a must-have hime for a dark team, if I have dark ama?

That's actually kinda hard to decide, I guess it would depend on ur playstyle or what build u would like, since u have dark amat, then you could either get thanatos or satan and aim for an offensive burst build (with Shingen as your main soul)
and since dark amat paired with either AW Satan or Amon U would already help u reach 40/45 atk/def debuff, then I don't think you would need ambush anymore. What ex skill you use is gonna be up to you I suppose

I.. honestly don't know if Pluto is a must have for dark teams. if your team is already filled with.. let's say Satan/Amon/Thanatos, Dark amat, Osiris and Hades, then it's kinda hard to think who you would replace just to squeeze pluto in

But for people without dark amat, it would be easy to fit Pluto or Samael in on their dark teams


What does that mean?

VoF = Vissicitudes of Fortune
Mordred's 2nd skill that helps you land debuffs easier

[BlazeAlter]

Honestly i run that team with the exception of dark amaterasu and if i was to build a perfect dark team next year i would rather swap osiris cause her heal isnt great and shes only useful for burst.

I would go : Dark Ama, Hades, Satan and Amon.
I say this with the change to Amon in mind as she can pair with Satan by that time.

Considering Dark Ama is not available anymore i aim for this team in 1 year: Hades, Satan, Amon and Pluto.

imo if a player is aiming for a burst build w/ shingen, then I think Osiris will help a lot because of her +15 burst gauge for the entire team, and having a heal (even tho its not as great as Sol's heal) isnt too bad of an option

and who knows? Maybe she'll get an awakening in the future (which i want to believe, since I do think she badly needs it as she's the only SSR healer of Dark)

but its up to them if they want a backup heal w/ a chance to burst 1 turn early, or just go full offense with their teams

[artista]

imo if a player is aiming for a burst build w/ shingen, then I think Osiris will help a lot because of her +15 burst gauge for the entire team, and having a heal (even tho its not as great as Sol's heal) isnt too bad of an option

and who knows? Maybe she'll get an awakening in the future (which i want to believe, since I do think she badly needs it as she's the only SSR healer of Dark)

but its up to them if they want a backup heal w/ a chance to burst 1 turn early, or just go full offense with their teams

The problem i see is that Hades Amon and Satan AW will synergize pretty good and be my core team which leaves the 4th slot to either Pluto or Osiris. I have Osiris and i feel the 1,1k heal with 15 burst isnt worth compared to get a dmg cut and burst from Pluto but when i grab Pluto eventually i can compare better. Thanatos is not needed aswell with the changes to Amon.

[BlazeAlter]

The problem i see is that Hades Amon and Satan AW will synergize pretty good and be my core team which leaves the 4th slot to either Pluto or Osiris. I have Osiris and i feel the 1,1k heal with 15 burst isnt worth compared to get a dmg cut and burst from Pluto but when i grab Pluto eventually i can compare better. Thanatos is not needed aswell with the changes to Amon.

I suppose thats true. Its such a long wait for the Amon U buffs though.....
Another possible good alternative in my opinion would be Samael, but she wont come to nutaku until... december or something i think
Well at least Osiris will always be an option to you, in case you need some healing on your dark team. I do think its okay to run both Osiris and Pluto though, and if you don't need the damage cut and have other alternatives like Thanatos/AW Satan/Samael, then they're also great to place in
She is, in my opinion, the most decent healer you can have for dark (this is of course if a player isn't considering to run Sol or Andromeda/Cassiopeia as a healer on their dark team) because her heal doesn't have that long of a cooldown (I consider 6CD short) and it gives 15 burst
in the future there would be some decent SR dark healers like Diana [Archer] (1200 heal w/ party atk buff, 8CD) or Manes (1200 Heal w/ 1k barrier for party, 10CD) for lets say F2P players who can't get her, but these ones wont heal as often as Osiris can because their heal CD is kinda long

But that's just my take on it. Feel free to correct me if I got anything wrong lol (or if I forgot any other good healer in the future for dark)

(and while waiting for Amon U's insane buffs in the future, I still hope to see Osiris getting an awakening while I wait)

[Shieun]

The reason why Pluto is considered important is that at later difficulty content (think AQ5, the incoming actual ragnarok disaster (one level up than our current ragnarok disaster, the current ragnarok disaster gets renamed to ultimate) is her ability to damage cut.

Damage cut ability now doesnt get used much as most people can survive with -50% atk down and one damage cut ability (e.g. joan's or gaia's, etc), but game like this is bound to have power creep, and that's where stacking multiple damage cut ability (including defense buff) will help clearing higher difficulty content.

With that said, it's still 1 year ++ thing for us, so no need to push that panic button... yet..

[Aidoru]

The problem i see is that Hades Amon and Satan AW will synergize pretty good and be my core team which leaves the 4th slot to either Pluto or Osiris. I have Osiris and i feel the 1,1k heal with 15 burst isnt worth compared to get a dmg cut and burst from Pluto but when i grab Pluto eventually i can compare better. Thanatos is not needed aswell with the changes to Amon.

Thanatos actually loses her use even earlier than Amon's changes. Satan's awakening, 4 months after Thanatos' release. You can still hit cap def down with Amon and Satan once she's awakened, which will be a lot earlier than waiting for a year+ for Amon to change. While Satan's def down won't stack with Amon's yet, the additional -10% dark res down from awakening will still factor in, meaning -35% def down with Amon and Awakened Satan. With Sniper Shot (or Dark Ama or Lu Bu), you'll still be hitting that -50% def down.

Feeling Vine is still a good factor in dark teams as well, simply because you can use her with Anubis. Though not sure how much a difference her low stats will impact future content.

[artista]

Thanatos actually loses her use even earlier than Amon's changes. Satan's awakening, 4 months after Thanatos' release. You can still hit cap def down with Amon and Satan once she's awakened, which will be a lot earlier than waiting for a year+ for Amon to change. While Satan's def down won't stack with Amon's yet, the additional -10% dark res down from awakening will still factor in, meaning -35% def down with Amon and Awakened Satan. With Sniper Shot (or Dark Ama or Lu Bu), you'll still be hitting that -50% def down.

Feeling Vine is still a good factor in dark teams as well, simply because you can use her with Anubis. Though not sure how much a difference her low stats will impact future content.

But you cant mix def debuff with dark resist right? What im trying to say is you should go for -50 def and then dark resist on top of it. Please correct me if im wrong but the def cap doesnt apply if you mix dark resist which means thanatos should pair with either Amon or Satan for now. Satan AW being better than Amon is a better choice.

It would be something like this. Sniper shot 20% Satan AW 15% and Thanatos 15%. Thats 50% done and still the dark resist Satan gives on top of it so I think Thanatos is useful till Amon changes debuff type.

[Slashley]

But you cant mix def debuff with dark resist right? What im trying to say is you should go for -50 def and then dark resist on top of it. Please correct me if im wrong but the def cap doesnt apply if you mix dark resist which means thanatos should pair with either Amon or Satan for now. Satan AW being better than Amon is a better choice.

It would be something like this. Sniper shot 20% Satan AW 15% and Thanatos 15%. Thats 50% done and still the dark resist Satan gives on top of it so I think Thanatos is useful till Amon changes debuff type.I'm... not sure what you're trying to say.

Just to clarify, Dark Resist is part of Def Down. So if you have -50% Def and -10% Dark Resist, you get the exact same effect as -40% Def and -10% Dark Resist. Because -50% is the cap.

[artista]

I'm... not sure what you're trying to say.

Just to clarify, Dark Resist is part of Def Down. So if you have -50% Def and -10% Dark Resist, you get the exact same effect as -40% Def and -10% Dark Resist. Because -50% is the cap.

Ok, i was wrong, i thought it wasnt part of def down cap. My bad :sweat:

[Aidoru]

But you cant mix def debuff with dark resist right? What im trying to say is you should go for -50 def and then dark resist on top of it. Please correct me if im wrong but the def cap doesnt apply if you mix dark resist which means thanatos should pair with either Amon or Satan for now. Satan AW being better than Amon is a better choice.

It would be something like this. Sniper shot 20% Satan AW 15% and Thanatos 15%. Thats 50% done and still the dark resist Satan gives on top of it so I think Thanatos is useful till Amon changes debuff type.

From what I've been told, elemental resist down acts as defense down and affliction resist down for the specific element. While it is its own separate debuff it stacks with def down but at the same time, is also included into the defense down debuff cap. So the excess dark resist down from Satan in your example would only be helpful for increasing debuffs apply on the target, you wouldn't get additional damage since it's already met the cap.