What the Future Holds: DMM Hime and Eidolons

[MagicSpice]

So yeah, figure we should probably have a thread discussing future content looking at some stuff far later on.

Just to kick this off, noticing from the Wiki that there's a lot more Hime with seasonal redisigns (like SSR water Cybele, and some hime actually dropping from SSR to SR with their seasonal versions). Kinda wondering what else will get posted, but we all know some like SSR Light Nike has some strong potential (even if they do get overtaken by some situations or hime).


And events... seems like there's a few "special attack" Eidolons that only go up to 50% of it, but their effects work like "pride" skill effect basically... I don't remember what special attack is, but i do remember it's good. But is it even worth sacrificing the elemental boost you can get?


plus there's gacha eidolons... the new batches of the "P2W" eidolons give 100% elemental attack, but up to 20%-40% more based on eidolons matching their element in your sub slots (it's dependent on break limits). So with enough luck, someone can push the eidolon elem atk boost to a whooping 280%... almost 4 times the damage if i factored that in right...

And does anyone know what that miracle ticket does? the 25 drag eye one in the shop? If i'm right, it might let you pick any eidolon you wish as well, or it might allow limited kami to be picked. i don't know for sure.

lastly, i heard there's phantom weapons... they seem situational in that you need to match the type but if someone does eventually grind out enough copies of the same phantom weapon, i wonder if that could bypass the mixed element issue to some extent given they all seem to have a form of assault/defender mix as the first skill, but only towards weapons of the same type. If I'm wrong about that, then correct me cause it's an idea I had that might make stuff like SSR Diabolos more viable later on (just go full phantom with the same weapon, even though it's gonna be a long grind if my idea works). but definitely looking at that staff one already given it can make Sol's heals stronger.

So yeah, already seeing some stuff I like. hoping Nutaku's side can eventually get that far, especially since the challenge on some bosses is getting nice already (although slightly tedious at times).

[Ikki]

And does anyone know what that miracle ticket does? the 25 drag eye one in the shop? If i'm right, it might let you pick any eidolon you wish as well, or it might allow limited kami to be picked. i don't know for sure.


The 150 drag eyes is the one that lets you choose anything, idk what the 25 drag eyes does or if it even exists, but theres no way they give you 100% eidos or limited himes with just 25 eyes, thats reserved for the 150 eyes one.



lastly, i heard there's phantom weapons... they seem situational in that you need to match the type but if someone does eventually grind out enough copies of the same phantom weapon, i wonder if that could bypass the mixed element issue to some extent given they all seem to have a form of assault/defender mix as the first skill, but only towards weapons of the same type.

Their stats arent amazing, its the bonus that makes them op if you have 6+ weapons of that type, people just use 1 phantom weapon along with 6+ weapons (flbed usually) of that same type for the bonus, they tried to make rainbow work with ssr diabolos and phantom weapons but its just bad, just get 1 phantom weapon that matches your weapon grid and call it a day.

[MagicSpice]

The 150 drag eyes is the one that lets you choose anything, idk what the 25 drag eyes does or if it even exists, but theres no way they give you 100% eidos or limited himes with just 25 eyes, thats reserved for the 150 eyes one.



Their stats arent amazing, its the bonus that makes them op if you have 6+ weapons of that type, people just use 1 phantom weapon along with 6+ weapons (flbed usually) of that same type for the bonus, they tried to make rainbow work with ssr diabolos and phantom weapons but its just bad, just get 1 phantom weapon that matches your weapon grid and call it a day.

figured someone else had the same idea i had about that phantom grid. if they came up with better stats for the phantom weapons, then maybe... plus it would run the risk of phantom element for your Soul, which means weakness damage each time they're hit...

as for that ticket, i made the mistake of thinking it was 25... it's a tall order, but if you somehow do get that many drag eyes.... easy access to the 100% eidolons or a kaiser...


also makes me wonder too if they'll introduce a phantom version of the 100% eidolons (maybe something like 100% special attack, plus up to 20%-40% more when using different elemental eidolons)

[BlazeAlter]

as for that ticket, i made the mistake of thinking it was 25... it's a tall order, but if you somehow do get that many drag eyes.... easy access to the 100% eidolons or a kaiser...


also makes me wonder too if they'll introduce a phantom version of the 100% eidolons (maybe something like 100% special attack, plus up to 20%-40% more when using different elemental eidolons)

"Easy access" lol
I doubt a normal person can even reach that 150 drag eyes, and if a whale can reach that then they most likely have those 100% eidos already
..and why the hell would you pick a kaiser dragoon with the 150 dragon eye MT? That seems like a waste especially since you can get them for free or they can just randomly spook you in your random gacha rolls

and 100% phantom eido... well isn't that Diabolos unleashed? then again she requires a rainbow team to work... if they ever make a 100% phantom eido that works for all elements and doesn't require you to have a rainbow team to work, that would mean once you get that 100% eido you would actually not need the others... which I kinda doubt they'll do since they want more money, unless they actually make one and just make its drop rate lower than 100% eidos which would be an even greater whale bait

[Slashley]

And Laventale closing the thread citing the Q&A thread in 3... 2... 1...

[Unregistered]

'special attack' is a separate type/category/multiplier. 'character' is one multiplier, 'element' is another multiplier, 'special attack' is yet another multiplier. So, it can be rather potent, depending on the restrictions. It's like how the vigorous skill (which also counts as special attack) has some nasty potential, but realizing it is a bit strict (you need at least near full HP).
For the event eidolons with that passive (at MLB), it gives [10 + 40 * (1 - HP/MHP)]% special attack. So a minimum of +10% at full HP, then gains +1% for every 2.5% HP lost.

[MagicSpice]

if something works like vigor, then it should be easier to maintain than pride (especially in short fights). we don't have Vigor yet, but i can already tell it could possibly be worth it more than pride cause you want to end fights as fast as possible, and vigor greatly helps to that...

with vigor, we're talking 30% assault at the start of fights at lv20... and more when some stuff can go FLB... now imagine a grid full of vigor... you'll have at the very least 100% assault, but the start of the fight, 300%...

pride on the other hand benefits from longer fights, as it gets harder to maintain your HP as the fight goes on (unless you're super tanky like my wind team's def setup). with more trigger attacks appearing from bosses (and later on, regular/mid-boss enemies), it's just gonna become a downhill fight if you're just relying on just a healer and atk debuffs to keep you alive (maybe a tank can do it too). unless you can outheal the damage you take, that pride will eventually kick in, but as a reminder to quickly finish the fight before you start losing people.

granted, something that uses both can easily maintain a decent bonus, but far as I can tell.... Vigor > Pride.

either way, we kinda do need some eidolons (possibly hime cause some abilities like thor's self heal works like it) that work like vigor/pride cause they're likely to have some high level increases (100%+ for gacha ones, 50%+ for event ones). there are event ones that do it later on from what i can tell (i think Fluerty is one of them)



And Laventale closing the thread citing the Q&A thread in 3... 2... 1...

except this isn't a Q&A thing... this is discussing later hime and eidolons that come out... or their changes like summer sol's recent DMM buffs...

[Mirage]

with vigor, we're talking 30% assault at the start of fights at lv20... and more when some stuff can go FLB... now imagine a grid full of vigor... you'll have at the very least 100% assault, but the start of the fight, 300%...
Either i misunderstood u completely, or u doesnt seem to know how vigor work

[Ikki]

Either i misunderstood u completely, or u doesnt seem to know how vigor work

It was literally posted above him that vigor isnt assault but rather special attack :joy:

[MrSkd030]

with vigor, we're talking 30% assault at the start of fights at lv20... and more when some stuff can go FLB... now imagine a grid full of vigor... you'll have at the very least 100% assault, but the start of the fight, 300%...


Here's something simple for you if shit GT is too hard for you :grin:
And another thing Vigor =/= Assault so Stahp comparing both :grin:

10671

[MagicSpice]

well since it's said that vigor isn't assault, but special attack... then doesn't that make it stronger than pride?

we're not talking an atk stat increase, but instead a raw damage one... which last i checked is more valuable... and if that's true, still does not change things when i said Vigor > Pride

plus i did also say that things related to current HP are still easier to maintain in fights depending on if it's shorter (more effect at higher HP), or longer (more effect at lower HP)... i think that still stands too



Here's something simple for you if shit GT is too hard for you :grin:
And another thing Vigor =/= Assault so Stahp comparing both :grin:

10671

okay.... so are you done with the flaming BS now?

this is why i said before that people treating "misinformation" as a taboo needs to stop. it's really getting out of hand when people come at you this hard for a damn mistake and it's legit pissing me off

it's not that serious.... LET. IT. GO.

It's one thing to correct someone, but don't act like an asshole.

[Slashley]

well since it's said that vigor isn't assault, but special attack... then doesn't that make it stronger than pride?--I don't think there is a "universally correct" answer here.

Pride: Always works, even better when at low HP
Vigor: Ridiculously powerful at high HP, but you gain zero if you drop to 50% or below

So, which one is better will depend on content and your team. Most of the time Vigor will be better, but if there was an Amaru that takes 10 turns to kill, then you wouldn't want to bring Vigor for example.

[MagicSpice]

I don't think there is a "universally correct" answer here.

Pride: Always works, even better when at low HP
Vigor: Ridiculously powerful at high HP, but you gain zero if you drop to 50% or below

So, which one is better will depend on content and your team. Most of the time Vigor will be better, but if there was an Amaru that takes 10 turns to kill, then you wouldn't want to bring Vigor for example.

which still goes back to vigor being better at faster fights.... as in fights (even boss ones) you can deal with in a few turns.

hence why i said pride is more suited to longer fights cause there's more chances you'll take damage or be at lower HP values

[Aidoru]

If you're clearing say, a ragnarok advent battle in 4~5 turns, you're likely going to still be clearing it in 4~5 turns, switching a pride to a vigor. You might see better damage numbers but when it comes to a battle that is already quick to clear, they aren't exactly better, rather they make little difference because you're still clearing within the same speed. Of course, there are several other variables to factor in too but if you want to see them being better, you want lengthy battles in which you can sustain your HP at high values throughout the fight.

[MagicSpice]

If you're clearing say, a ragnarok advent battle in 4~5 turns, you're likely going to still be clearing it in 4~5 turns, switching a pride to a vigor. You might see better damage numbers but when it comes to a battle that is already quick to clear, they aren't exactly better, rather they make little difference because you're still clearing within the same speed. Of course, there are several other variables to factor in too but if you want to see them being better, you want lengthy battles in which you can sustain your HP at high values throughout the fight.

but the way both of those weapon skills works is more damage output (in different ways) based on current HP.

not only does vigor use a better modifier for damage output, but pride also needs your HP lowered... meaning you have to spend a few turns taking damage for it to build up. opposed to vigor where you get best potential at the start. sure it drops as you take damage, but how much of your team is getting hit for that to be an issue?

i'm pretty sure vigor's damage increase boosting you at the start is gonna cut off a turn or two, making a 4-5 turn run become 3-4. or are you saying you'll get your HP lowered to 5% or less by the end of the fight to get the most out of pride, when you can just maintain it for a high vigor effect? cause staying above 60% hp on everyone in a short fight isn't hard unless you're just not paying attention. and if you got a buff/damage heavy team anyway, vigor is just gonna capitalize more

for example, my buff heavy fire team could rack up 70k-80k per normal hit with full HP (and of course belial, but that's beside the point). and this means pride isn't giving any bonus effect. vigor should be spiking that damage higher at the start (probably around 100k). Assuming it is giving a 20-30% damage increase, that's pretty much 70k-80k per hit now becoming 84k-104k per hit. that racks up.... more so given when DA/TA goes off.

so assuming you (somehow) get all 5 to do TA, that's 252k-312k per person or roughly 1mil-1.6mil damage that round. even then, if vigor is giving even 10%, that's still worth one extra hit out of every 10... it still racks up, but not as fast.

i'm pretty sure something like this is saving you a turn or more, compared to trying to build up pride's effect

[Aidoru]

That's still barely any different but you're missing the point. You said that vigor is better when used for short fights. I disagreed. Vigor weapons shine when you have teams that can keep their HP up and that will show a larger difference when you're running more lengthy content because quick content can be cleared quickly whether you use either.

Regardless, it was just an oversimplified example, I did say that there are many other variables that could to be factored in.

[MagicSpice]

That's still barely any different but you're missing the point. You said that vigor is better when used for short fights. I disagreed. Vigor weapons shine when you have teams that can keep their HP up and that will show a larger difference when you're running more lengthy content because quick content can be cleared quickly whether you use either.

Regardless, it was just an oversimplified example, I did say that there are many other variables that could to be factored in.

but at the same time, if you're clearing a fight fast, that means you likely aren't losing much HP

therefore, should vigor just speed things up faster like that, opposed to pride which just acts like a small assault and not much more (if at all).

other factors can indeed determine things, but let's be honest... if you're losing so much HP in a short time that vigor gets nullified quickly, you're obviously doing something wrong. no way should you have a team of 5 losing half their HP in a few turns like that (unless it's something like that nuke happy rahab fight)

[Aidoru]

If you're clearing a fight fast, you can still lose HP fast depending on mechanics, that's 1 of multitude of variable that could be factored in. Another example is using Zeal buffs. Another being how many vigor weapons. So on and so on. There are a vast amount of variables you could include which would just end up with the discussion ending as 'it depends'.

Regardless, I have not been discussing whether vigor is better than pride or vice versa, I have been talking about where you can actually see a notable difference when using it over each other. So like I've said, for the 3rd time, in a short battle you will clear the battle quickly enough that it would not matter what you use.

[Cobblemaniac]

If you're clearing a fight fast, you can still lose HP fast depending on mechanics, that's 1 of multitude of variable that could be factored in. Another example is using Zeal buffs. Another being how many vigor weapons. So on and so on. There are a vast amount of variables you could include which would just end up with the discussion ending as 'it depends'.

Regardless, I have not been discussing whether vigor is better than pride or vice versa, I have been talking about where you can actually see a notable difference when using it over each other. So like I've said, for the 3rd time, in a short battle you will clear the battle quickly enough that it would not matter what you use.

Perhaps another interesting way to look at it will be:

If you're a bit lazy to continuously change your weapon setups between pride and vigor, pride may be the better option considering pride is active at all HP ranges, while vigor is only active at half. Or you're that guy who wipes everything under a couple of turns taking literally no damage, then vigor. I highly doubt the latter is a thing though, except I dunno what the whale situation is in Nutaku.

[Aidoru]

Vigor will also find use for raid events. At high rank, in fights with other players joining, it's not uncommon to have raids fights finish within a couple turns before any major damage is done to your party, so these become more of a damage race for MVP spots, so vigor weapons can help getting that. Of course this is if you even care about MVP in the first place.

On a side note, I recall seeing a screenshot or maybe it was a video of DMM having more party set slots. Hopefully we get those soon as they can help with making alternate parties sets. Especially for me, as I am lazy to the point I don't even want to swap my teams out to do R or SR only event missions.

[Ikki]

On a side note, I recall seeing a screenshot or maybe it was a video of DMM having more party set slots. Hopefully we get those soon as they can help with making alternate parties sets. Especially for me, as I am lazy to the point I don't even want to swap my teams out to do R or SR only event missions.

12 teams slots pls make it happen soon.

[MagicSpice]

more party slots would help, especially if they introduce more stuff with phantom weapons (that can make a viable grid full of them)...

or more so, actually introduce some phantom kamihime with those weapons... event though that's one hell of a gamble given weakness damage is applied both ways with them.... which reminds me...


while you still want to use an actual element (preferably the regalia weapons), the phantom weapons do allow souls to get phantom element... can't see where you'd use that... but that's a thing...


even then, if they do give something like 12 party setups, then i won't have to switch spots on one of my elemental comps to put R girls in for those event missions...

[Cobblemaniac]

more party slots would help, especially if they introduce more stuff with phantom weapons (that can make a viable grid full of them)...

or more so, actually introduce some phantom kamihime with those weapons... event though that's one hell of a gamble given weakness damage is applied both ways with them.... which reminds me...


while you still want to use an actual element (preferably the regalia weapons), the phantom weapons do allow souls to get phantom element... can't see where you'd use that... but that's a thing...


even then, if they do give something like 12 party setups, then i won't have to switch spots on one of my elemental comps to put R girls in for those event missions...

Not just himes, even Souls, those take too long to change in between...

1 minute spent in the UI is 55 seconds too much :neutral:

[Cloudofdarkhole6]

I took a little dip into the past patch notes that are on the jp wiki and appearantly the slots got increased to 12 during the Pazz event (10th october).

Looks like we still got some time ahead of us until we can create more sets for different purposes

[Bear]

It gets better:

https://i.imgur.com/gb2RPrH.png

Colorful rainbow buttons!

[Cobblemaniac]

It gets better:

https://i.imgur.com/gb2RPrH.png

Colorful rainbow buttons!

Nice touch, I'm guessing the color corresponds to element.

Now for another quality of life question... are those numbers tappable? Meaning, can I skip from team 1 to any number?

Please say yes

[Bear]

Nice touch, I'm guessing the color corresponds to element.

Now for another quality of life question... are those numbers tappable? Meaning, can I skip from team 1 to any number?

Please say yes

Oui monsieur.

[Cobblemaniac]

Oui monsieur.

Well. Shit. POGGERS

10692

[BlazeAlter]

Ugh, I really wish they can implement that faster, since I'd like a slot for a quick farming team for those 30 min gem quests and I don't really want to mess up my current slot compositions just for those...

and for some other stuff I suppose

[Slashley]

I took a little dip into the past patch notes that are on the jp wiki and appearantly the slots got increased to 12 during the Pazz event (10th october).I've been wanting to know the date for that for a long time now, but haven't wanted to dive into DMM patch notes. Thank you.
Colorful rainbow buttons!That doesn't happen until wayyyy later right?

[Delete]

That's really good news. :grin:
Another one that I would love, is a way to look directly what Kamihime has a certain Accesory, not only the other way around

[Bear]

That's really good news. :grin:
Another one that I would love, is a way to look directly what Kamihime has a certain Accesory, not only the other way around

You mean this?

https://i.imgur.com/vzOKTv7.jpg

[Cobblemaniac]

You mean this?

https://i.imgur.com/vzOKTv7.jpg

This UI... confuses me. Mind explaining a bit what changed?

[MagicSpice]

wow, it seems like organizing your hime and your teams took a MASSIVE step up...

but that accessory UI does seem rather confusing...

[Bear]

This UI... confuses me. Mind explaining a bit what changed?

A.
> Click on an Acc
> Click on hime
> Small pop up
> Click on which Acc you wanna replace in the pop up
> Done

B.
> Click on hime
> Small pop up
> Click on Acc
> Click remove
> Done

[Cobblemaniac]

A.
> Click on an Acc
> Click on hime
> Small pop up
> Click on which Acc you wanna replace in the pop up
> Done

B.
> Click on hime
> Small pop up
> Click on Acc
> Click remove
> Done

Damn. That sounds convenient.

These UI changes can't come fast enough for sure...