Soul weapon discussion

[sanahtlig]

I haven't seen any dedicated topics to discussing Soul (Relic) weapons. These are a massive investment, requiring 3-6 months of casual farming just to max limit break a single one. We'll likely see the final weapons release within the next month. Which ones are you aiming for, and why?

Soul weapon overview (https://docs.google.com/document/d/19K_dU3rCief_ajPGS9YBuVdxXBYFyCGGXAxYYyK0jzg/edit#heading=h.b8r25460b6g7) (for beginners)

I have a perfect setup for a Berserk build (Morgan Elemental ATK weapon) with my Wind team. This team can pull off 22+ attacks per 2 turns of Berserk, for nearly as much damage as a Provisional Forest buffed Full Burst. The combination of Berserk and a PF-buffed Full Burst is a highly potent strategy to maximize spike damage. Since many encounters have spike damage checks, usually linked to a punishing Rage Overdrive (typically on a 3-4T timer), maximizing spike damage in a 3T window is a highly effective strategy for clearing many high-difficulty encounters.

Downsides of the build are that its lethality is diminished when the EX slot isn't free for Provisional Forest (e.g., because a debuff or utility skill is needed). Charm (Burst effect) and 1T defensive effects (e.g., Gaia's) don't mix well. Shingen is more versatile and doesn't need a heavily optimized team to do good spike damage.

[Mirage]

Considering that even if you do nothing but host 3 Rags/day, you can still get a MLB soul weapon in 29 days, so if it takes you 3-6 months, highly doubt it gonna do anything for you or whether you should care about it at all.

[Laventale]

Considering that even if you do nothing but host 3 Rags/day, you can still get a MLB soul weapon in 29 days, so if it takes you 3-6 months, highly doubt it gonna do anything for you or whether you should care about it at all.

Even less given the you get between 2 and 5 Regalia shards.

[HugMeTender]

Even less given the you get between 2 and 5 Regalia shards.I was about say the same thing. I've only been playing since mid/late May and obviously it took a while from then even to get to a strong enough level to farm Rag. I'm like 2/3 days away from maxing one and have 2 stars on another. If you REALLY want one, and I've missed hosting all 3 or run out of cores quite often, it's easy to get.

Sent from my Nokia 6.1 using Tapatalk

[Unregistered]

For discussion's sake I copied over the buffs of each relic weapon from the discord. I've been thinking of getting either Andromeda or Hercules' attack one.

Arthur (burst->35% atk up to self 3t)
Atk(sword): nuke CD 6->5t
HP(axe): 20->2x20% atk buff

Joan (burst->40% dmg cut to self 1t)
Atk(sword): DA/regen buff CD 8->6t
HP(lance): 40->40+20% dmg cut

Andromeda (burst->50% heal limit break to self 3t)
Atk(staff): 20->2x20% def buff
HP(lance): heal->heal+regen(2x350)

Solomon (burst->50% ability dmg buff to party 6t)
Atk(glaive): single target->AoE 4.5-5x nuke
HP(staff): stackable ability buff CD 3->2t

Siegfried (burst->additional hit after burst)
Atk(glavie): rage nuke dmg up (no data)
HP(hammer): mode gauge deplete rate->additional atk buff (no data)

Mordred (burst->combo atk down)
Atk(sword): mode gauge decrease effect to outrage
HP(glaive): removes a buff with outrage

d'Artagnan (burst->combo atk buff to self 3? t)
Atk(gun1): increases snatch 3rd success rate
HP(gun2): Sniper Shot gets additional 10% atk/def debuff (D Frame)

Hercules (burst->25% eido/wep frame def debuff)
Atk(axe): 3rd ability gets additional 30BG up
HP(bow): nuke cap 700k->1m, 50->75% bonus from each buff

Morgan (burst->applies dizzy)
Atk(staff): turns rampage buff into party-wide 2x multiplier
HP(arcane): target->target+self guaranteed TA

Shingen (burst->30BG up)
Atk(lance): 20->35 BG from first ability
HP(bow): 200->500% burst buff (translates to 40->100% bonus dmg to burst)

[VeryVoodoo]

I have a perfect setup for a Berserk build (Morgan Elemental ATK weapon) with my Wind team. This team can pull off 22+ attacks per 2 turns of Berserk, for nearly as much damage as a Provisional Forest buffed Full Burst. The combination of Berserk and a PF-buffed Full Burst is a highly potent strategy to maximize spike damage. Since many encounters have spike damage checks, usually linked to a punishing Rage Overdrive (typically on a 3-4T timer), maximizing spike damage in a 3T window is a highly effective strategy for clearing many high-difficulty encounters.

Sounds interesting. I wonder if Morgan is able to keep up for burst in speed builds like that though. Think if you have a team that can pull off 22+ attacks in 2 turns, Shingen would probably be the better choice for FBs, no?

I'm a bit sad that I'll never get to try the machine gun burst tactics that wind has myself, mainly because I don't have a wind team... lacking almost all of the himes needed to make that happen. Unless jewel gacha RNG changes things drastically on that count for me, I will only be able to speculate on such builds. :<

The closest thing I have for experiencing a fast burst build is in my water with Ashy+Atalanta+Aphro (the triple-A combo, as I call it), but Herc seems more than capable of keeping up with that combo, so I'm not sure if Shingen will really even benefit my current lineup. I will still likely get Shingen's relics anyway, simply because I have enough spare regalias to do so and eventually get all of the souls' ones even. But sadly, I don't think I'll ever get to experience the chain-gun burst builds currently (due to just not having enough himes).

[Cobblemaniac]

I haven't seen any dedicated topics to discussing Soul (Relic) weapons. These are a massive investment, requiring 3-6 months of casual farming just to max limit break a single one. We'll likely see the final weapons release within the next month. Which ones are you aiming for, and why?

I have a perfect setup for a Berserk build (Morgan Elemental ATK weapon) with my Wind team. This team can pull off 22+ attacks per 2 turns of Berserk, for nearly as much damage as a Provisional Forest buffed Full Burst. The combination of Berserk and a PF-buffed Full Burst is a highly potent strategy to maximize spike damage. Since many encounters have spike damage checks, usually linked to a punishing Rage Overdrive (typically on a 3-4T timer), maximizing spike damage in a 3T window is a highly effective strategy for clearing many high-difficulty encounters.

Downsides of the build are that its lethality is diminished when the EX slot isn't free for Provisional Forest (e.g., because a debuff or utility skill is needed). Charm (Burst effect) and 1T defensive effects (e.g., Gaia's) don't mix well. Shingen is more versatile and doesn't need a heavily optimized team to do good spike damage.

Right, ignoring the relative ease of committal farming for regalia cause that's a point that many people have made already...

With the water meta looking as it is right now, I'd be an advocate for running Joan's HP relic and Hercules relic. Now, hold your pitchforks assault lovers, let me finish.

Water lacks offensive options, everyone knows that. Asherah is pretty much your single existing gateway between dealing close to endgame level damage, and doing basically jack shit. Therefore, if you do have an Asherah, Hercules is the option to go for since you can keep up burst gen and have an actually decent damage output.

Outside of Asherah, the only feasible option left is turtling, meaning Joan. Snow Raphy Nike Cthulhu combo (or variants, such as Ryu-Oh Belphegor/ Snow Raphy etc) are all basically the debuff meta of yester-half a year, and are unfortunately stuck as the meta outside of Asherah for half a year to come. Seriously, I don't see any other feasible option to this point.

[LeCrestfallen]

Morgan weapon staff = call to arms 10t cd, berserk 8t cd ~~
depending on wether you rely on the call to arms buff or not, that would mean waiting 10t for a 2t burst. if you throw PF to the mix it would mean that you would fullburst every 12t.
Is it worth it? maybe.
for me? Nope.

[Laventale]

I'm a bit sad that I'll never get to try the machine gun burst tactics that wind has myself, mainly because I don't have a wind team...

The fact that I'm missing Wind Pussy makes me die a little inside, Titania, Cybele, Aether (in November) and Wind Pussy together with Shingen is turn 2 or 3 burst everytime, it's stupid how much burst generation that team has.

[Cobblemaniac]

The fact that I'm missing Wind Pussy makes me die a little inside, Titania, Cybele, Aether (in November) and Wind Pussy together with Shingen is turn 2 or 3 burst everytime, it's stupid how much burst generation that team has.

You're making me second guess my decision to miracle Uriel...

[Laventale]

You're making me second guess my decision to miracle Uriel...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ub7D_nMISE

Here.

[Cobblemaniac]

Here.

Bruh, that's actually busted.

Are there any videos on battles that last longer than 1 FB? I'm curious how consistently the burst generation rolls in...

[Slashley]

You're making me second guess my decision to miracle Uriel...Did you have Wind Poseidon? Since she can't be Miracle Ticketed.

[Cobblemaniac]

Did you have Wind Poseidon? Since she can't be Miracle Ticketed.

I do have, which is why I hesitated.

[sanahtlig]

Sounds interesting. I wonder if Morgan is able to keep up for burst in speed builds like that though. Think if you have a team that can pull off 22+ attacks in 2 turns, Shingen would probably be the better choice for FBs, no?
A Berserk build is specialized for spike damage, not sustained damage. Think Catastrophes. You want to end the Rage phase (the damage check) ASAP. After that you just need to generate Burst and ready your ability cooldowns for the next Rage phase. Titania can even out the Burst generation to get in a second Burst if needed, but that's sort of unique to Wind.

Rapid Burst builds are an alternative focused more on 5-6T damage. In Wind builds, the Provisional Forest cooldown can actually end up being a bottleneck. It's not clear whether the extra elemental ATK from one weapon is worth forgoing the useful skill on the other weapon that further improves Burst damage (together with extra HP). It's probably situational.

Is it worth farming for both a weapon for Morgan and one for Shingen? Maybe if you don't have enough spike damage for some fights with Shingen (and don't need the EX slot), or enough sustained damage in other fights with Morgan. Morgan isn't terribly flexible; she can only Berserk once every 8T, and triple attack only once every 10T. If you need optimized spike damage more often than that, or you want to rely on Gaia's defensive skills, then Shingen will be the better option.

As for the debate over whether Regalia are difficult to farm, imagine you were a Rank 40 user that could barely nick the Catastrophes and you were relying primarily on (similarly weak) friends, who probably only join once the boss is half dead. Spawning raids that might not be cleared could actually be a waste of time and resources.

[Unregistered]

Alternatively, one could be slow to farm regalia on the basis of just wanting to save up half-elixirs and seeds for when multiple days are missed (or wanting to farm certain 2nd reprints...), which is what I do. So I really only have the AP to start up raids on off days and the BP to join raids during advents and off days. For example, I'm a rank 111 player sitting at 5 fire, 60 water, 60 wind, 55 thunder, and 10 light regalia. I haven't spend a single regalia yet either.

[sanahtlig]

Outside of Asherah, the only feasible option left is turtling, meaning Joan. Snow Raphy Nike Cthulhu combo (or variants, such as Ryu-Oh Belphegor/ Snow Raphy etc) are all basically the debuff meta of yester-half a year, and are unfortunately stuck as the meta outside of Asherah for half a year to come. Seriously, I don't see any other feasible option to this point.
I was planning on running a Burst build for my Water team with Shingen (Cthulhu, but no Asherah). A free EX slot for Sniper Shot is mandatory for my team, so Hercules wouldn't help much if at all. Shingen's Burst generation is somewhat wasted, but maybe she can get in 2 Bursts and speed up a Full burst by 1 turn?

Endurance builds don't seem very effective (or time-efficient) for endgame content; Light was given massive offensive buffs for a reason. Many of the emerging damage checks seem to be tuned to be lethal if failed, which is probably motivated by revenue strategies. If your goal is selling success, then it makes sense to limit players' ability to innovatively overcome challenges with resources on hand without paying the toll.

[Cobblemaniac]

I was planning on running a Burst build for my Water team with Shingen (Cthulhu, but no Asherah). A free EX slot for Sniper Shot is mandatory for my team, so Hercules wouldn't help much if at all. Shingen's Burst generation is somewhat wasted, but maybe she can get in 2 Bursts and speed up a Full burst by 1 turn?

Endurance builds don't seem very effective (or time-efficient) for endgame content; Light was given massive offensive buffs for a reason. Many of the emerging damage checks seem to be tuned to be lethal if failed, which is probably motivated by revenue strategies. If your goal is selling success, then it makes sense to limit players' ability to innovatively overcome challenges with resources on hand without paying the toll.

Light was given massive offensive buffs indeed, but just like water, we're still waiting 1 more miracle ticket season after this one (so, the 5th) before we actually see any changes to that element. Specifically, about 3 and a half more months before Tishtriya, and a lot longer for Takeminakata and the awakenings. As for water, we kind of face the same problem except longer: Vohu Manah isn't available till 6 months later, Lakshimi even later, and let's forget Shiva awakening since that's literally in a year's time.

Therefore, I'll break down the existing offensive options for water besides Asherah:

Ea. Yeah... No. This is the girl that everyone knows to shit on because the whole thing relies exclusively on stun punish, and while our past member Bear grudgingly mentions the necessity of Ea to poke damage ceiling, or something similar, it's pretty much consensus her kit is ass.

Shiva. Another case of yeah no. She's basically water Hastur without def break: nuke skills that don't really nuke that well, and an enemy party wide nuke skill that... hits like a noodle. Her awakening remains to be seen, but again, in the interest of perspective that's a year away.

The only other SSR that has a skill considered nukey in nature is... Neptune, and even then her spirit passive is too gimmicky to really include in this list, or make her viable.

Only 3 (2?) SSR girls in the water pool that can be considered viable, and all of them suck at what they do as compared to... the damage meta elements fire and wind? You could make a case for SR girls as well, Oceanus (meh), Anahit (meh) and so on, but I believe my point still stands.

Water also pretty much has only 1 hime that can be considered burst gen in Saraswati, outside of Asherah. Then again... she's a discount Titania, slower skills with a lower potency, and none of that passive burst gen either.

In addition, I believe your guide recommends core water SSR himes as girls like Snow Raphy Cthulhu Ryu-Oh etc? If anything, I still believe those girls are the best options for current game content (again, outside of Asherah), but... it's really saying something about the element if debuff-based meta is still the only other legitimate way to play that particular element. I say this because in practice, running a nuker team in water actually doesn't even deal that much more damage than if you were to run a defensive team to begin with.

Sure, endurance builds won't survive the test of time, but
1. If it doesn't, so doesn't water, because endurance build is literally the 2nd best option we have.
2. It gets fixed somewhat with the introduction of the new water himes half a year down, but we face the tower event earlier than Vohu Manah is released, and it's fire.

Why do I pitch Asherah as such a big cornerstone to water damage? The most obvious one is her stackable burst damage buff (and her crit buffs in extension), because for water, you're practically getting nothing extra out of your bursts otherwise, PF and 50% def break are the only setups you have, with maybe an atk buff or 2. I emphasise getting extra out of bursts, because we all know water is a damned slowpoke in burst gen, which happens to be the 2nd problem Asherah fixes (well, not really, but it's there), +20 burst for all works wonders. Running a Hercules PF build with Asherah means you don't have to wait 1-2 turns to get your full burst worth from the PF depletion, and a quick first burst basically allows you to land in the tasty 25% def break, allowing you to drop an otherwise near to dead-weight debuff hime.

For your case however, since you don't have the B frame you need, I'd advise dropping Shingen in favor of Joan simply because you aren't gonna see that much of a difference single bursting every few turns compared to just playing it safe. Shingen's setup only works well in a team which can keep up with her burst gen (therefore wind meta) for the reason that if you're not buffing burst damage or nuke damage itself to absurd levels, you're bursting fast enough to absurd levels to keep up, and water has none of that. Future water himes aren't burst gen heavy as well, so my bias also leans to Hercules in that regard, but the B frame wall is a bit bothersome in your case.

At least currently, my advice for new players is to basically get Asherah if they don't want to face endurance torture. Otherwise, it's better to drop water as an element altogether, the other elements are much better suited for dealing with endgame meta.

[sanahtlig]

For your case however, since you don't have the B frame you need, I'd advise dropping Shingen in favor of Joan simply because you aren't gonna see that much of a difference single bursting every few turns compared to just playing it safe. Shingen's setup only works well in a team which can keep up with her burst gen (therefore wind meta) for the reason that if you're not buffing burst damage or nuke damage itself to absurd levels, you're bursting fast enough to absurd levels to keep up, and water has none of that. Future water himes aren't burst gen heavy as well, so my bias also leans to Hercules in that regard, but the B frame wall is a bit bothersome in your case.

At least currently, my advice for new players is to basically get Asherah if they don't want to face endurance torture. Otherwise, it's better to drop water as an element altogether, the other elements are much better suited for dealing with endgame meta.
I'm counting on PF and elemental advantage to carry the day. I'm not trying to win any speed contests; I just need enough spike damage to clear the damage checks. If I had Shingen's Soul weapon this event I probably could've used her for instant Rage cancels. Joan is of questionable usefulness to me since her debuff is redundant with Cthulhu and Poseidon's. Asherah is nice, but I don't plan to Miracle ticket Water again.

[Cobblemaniac]

I'm counting on PF and elemental advantage to carry the day. I'm not trying to win any speed contests; I just need enough spike damage to clear the damage checks. If I had Shingen's Soul weapon this event I probably could've used her for instant Rage cancels. Joan is of questionable usefulness to me since her debuff is redundant with Cthulhu and Poseidon's. Asherah is nice, but I don't plan to Miracle ticket Water again.

Indeed, for current events elemental advantage and PF carries more than enough for damage checks. The true cuck comes during tower and AQ5 if I know what I’m reading in the DMM wiki however, the tower has the last boss with basically wind rag levels of debuff resistance, and you’re somehow expected to burst through that with as mediocre a nuker element as water. As for AQ5, with your elemental advantage I’d much rather just take the hit than try to burst through a normal and a rage gauge in 7 turns without Asherah.

Would additionally like to note that I find Cthulhu especially redundant in the “perfect water team meta” currently: you have Hercules covering a 25% def break, a free Atalanta that covers the C frame already, and a Ryu-Oh that covers the A frame atk break and has BP, leaving with only the orb reduction that doesn’t land half the time.

[sanahtlig]

Since I have no Fire team, I see no reason to farm Fire AQ5 at this point in time. I'm sure Tower will be annoying, but beating every element of it isn't strictly necessary (same with Guild Orders).

Sadly, your criticism of Cthulhu has merit with the entrance of Atalanta. I'll demote her in priority below the rest, I guess.

[Slashley]

To be noted is that Cthulhu is a direct upgrade to Atalanta, and a fairly significant one. SSRs are just super strong in this game, and Cthulhu is not an exception to this.

Of course, it's "only" an upgrade. Unlike something like Asherah, who is a game-plan changer.

[nonsensei]

For discussion's sake I copied over the buffs of each relic weapon from the discord. I've been thinking of getting either Andromeda or Hercules' attack one.

Arthur (burst->35% atk up to self 3t)
Atk(sword): nuke CD 6->5t
HP(axe): 20->2x20% atk buff

Joan (burst->40% dmg cut to self 1t)
Atk(sword): DA/regen buff CD 8->6t
HP(lance): 40->40+20% dmg cut

Andromeda (burst->50% heal limit break to self 3t)
Atk(staff): 20->2x20% def buff
HP(lance): heal->heal+regen(2x350)

Solomon (burst->50% ability dmg buff to party 6t)
Atk(glaive): single target->AoE 4.5-5x nuke
HP(staff): stackable ability buff CD 3->2t

Siegfried (burst->additional hit after burst)
Atk(glavie): rage nuke dmg up (no data)
HP(hammer): mode gauge deplete rate->additional atk buff (no data)

Mordred (burst->combo atk down)
Atk(sword): mode gauge decrease effect to outrage
HP(glaive): removes a buff with outrage

d'Artagnan (burst->combo atk buff to self 3t)
Atk(gun1): Snatch 3rd's snatch attempts 3->4
HP(gun2): Sniper Shot gets additional 10% atk/def debuff (D Frame)

Hercules (burst->25% eido/wep frame def debuff)
Atk(axe): 3rd ability gets additional 30BG up
HP(bow): nuke cap 700k->1m, 50->75% bonus from each buff

Morgan (burst->applies dizzy)
Atk(staff): turns rampage buff into party-wide 2x multiplier
HP(arcane): target->target+self guaranteed TA

Shingen (burst->30BG up)
Atk(lance): 20->35 BG from first ability
HP(bow): 200->500% burst buff (translates to 40->100% bonus dmg to burst for SSR himes)

Was lazy to read the whole thread (just stumbled upon it), but that's my hero weapon summary in which I made a few corrections meanwhile (corrected it in the quoting).
As an explanation to Shingen burst buff note, as you may know, each rarity has its own burst multiplier & burst buff is additional with that. So while the damage gain in number stays the same, the relative gain (expressed in %) varies depending on the already existing multiplier.

There's also an introduction part which is probably useful for those new to hero weapon stuff or for people with lacking knowledge on hero weapons. Gonna add it here:

Each hero has 2 types of weapon: atk & hp. Atk will give you 30% elemental atk bonus of the corresponding element at SL20 and hp gives 30% hp.
Every hero weapon has a 2nd, hero specific effect that will boost one of their abilities.
Note that these effects only work with the corresponding hero and only if equipped as main weapon.
Atk & hp weapons for the same hero share the same burst effect.
Note that the burst effects described below are only for MLB weapons: at 0* they won't have any kind of burst effect, then the effect will increase as you proceed with LB.

[Itoshira]

While we are at that just now, here a correction on Sieg's Relic - Assault

Edit: Oh, one thing I forgot (which isnt so important, but can be). Inbetween the 2 activation a change of the Mode is possible. Meaning: When used right before entering Rage, the first activation would bring it into Rage and then the second activation would happen (this also goes from Rage > Stun). I had unfortunate happenings on Envy throwing her from Rage back into Normal on Experts.

Edit2: See below, gets a adjustment in the future.

[Bear]

While we are at that just now, here a correction on Sieg's Relic - Assault

Sadly, for us this one is bugged and not working as intented, but on DMM I took the time and farmed the weapon to see the effect since the JP noted a double activation - which is indeed the case.

I cruised the wiki and couldnt find on Sieg neither the weapon a notion about a adjustment about the skill. Our current Relic still does one activation (hence why I count this a bugged - a ticket has already been send in, dunno when they gonna fix it).


:face_palm:

just fyi Sieg's weapons went through a rebalance patch during March 2018.


https://i.imgur.com/H8h0dPC.png


Sieg HP Hammer
Old effect,
Ab 2 - Additional effect: Party Atk up
New effect,
Ab 2 - Additonal effect: Party Rage Punisher Buff

Sieg Atk Sword
Old effect,
Ab 3 - Increased Dmg multiplier
New effect,
Ab 3 - Now activates Twice

[Itoshira]

Oh shoot, gdi, that sucks, sorry. Hmm, welp, my mistake. Usually stuff like that is noted easily to find or I really were blind that day.

Thanks for the correction, so that's still some time until that comes in. Oh well, just my luck D:

Edit: Yea, I didnt skimmed the patch notes from top to bottom, so I missed on that one. My bad :/

[sanahtlig]

The final set of Soul weapons has been released. Has anyone tested the Morgan and Shingen weapons to make sure they work as they're supposed to? My confidence in the support team is pretty low. Also, Morgan's Berserk ability was tweaked at some point in the DMM version, so that further reduces my confidence that the weapon-buffed ability will do what I expect.

[Unregistered]

The final set of Soul weapons has been released. Has anyone tested the Morgan and Shingen weapons to make sure they work as they're supposed to? My confidence in the support team is pretty low. Also, Morgan's Berserk ability was tweaked at some point in the DMM version, so that further reduces my confidence that the weapon-buffed ability will do what I expect.

That's why it's hard to tell how's Morgan's staff is supposed to work. Changes to her 3rd ability should come next week, so waiting for that is a good idea.

[Itoshira]

I got me the staff for Morgan for the party-rampage and from what it looks like it works as it should. I get the partywide effect and the damage is twice as high as usual attacks. Unless there were other changes that I'm not aware of, this looks to work properly so far.

[Unregistered]

I got me the staff for Morgan for the party-rampage and from what it looks like it works as it should. I get the partywide effect and the damage is twice as high as usual attacks. Unless there were other changes that I'm not aware of, this looks to work properly so far.

There will be (or at least should be). Morgan's rampage skill will be party-wide with, or without weapon. What weapon will change is effect of rampage, from 30% to 100%.

[sanahtlig]

I got me the staff for Morgan for the party-rampage and from what it looks like it works as it should. I get the partywide effect and the damage is twice as high as usual attacks. Unless there were other changes that I'm not aware of, this looks to work properly so far.
That's interesting. Without the weapon it's still single-target (just tested). This combination of single-target Berserk without a Soul weapon and party-wide with never existed in the DMM version, I think.

I went ahead and bought a copy, and it works exactly as you describe. The effect applies 1-by-1 to each party member, which is annoying since it wastes time.

[Itoshira]

Did some digging around the JP wiki.

There should be a change coming up to make her rampage skill party-wide by default. The difference between using a relic or not is the multiplier of the rampage.

Without relic, the effect of rampage seems to be 1.2 times while with relic it is 2 times.

So the relic is fine, it is just a different multiplier between using a relic or not when that change happens.

Edit: I noticed this on a couple abilities, mainly party-wide buffs that they are added seperatly instead of all at once. Not all do that, but some. Hell knows for what reason though.

[Xenosis69]

Sorry to dig this off, but what is the best weapon for Shingen at the end of the day ?

Let's say we're considering Fire team (with something like 2 SSRs), debuff irrelevant. Would you say Lance is definetely better ? (I'm leaning towards this, but a 40~50% burst dmg increase with the Bow sounds Ok I guess, especially if you just go for LB0 Bow for somehow a Burst Build)

[Slashley]

You almost always want the offensive weapon, since 30% Elemental Attack is just too much to pass up on. The skill-buffing is better for most HP weapons, excluding Herc and Morgan. Also, Shingen's weapons fulfill a different role:

1. The offensive weapon allows Shingen to use PF without outside help
2. The defensive weapons lets your bursts hit like a truck, but Shingen will need help from the party

Most of the time, the offensive weapon is better even for Shingen since, again, the 30% Elemental Attack is just too much. It's something to consider if you own Belial yourself and are running a friend Belial as well, though.

[Unregistered]

Well thats the thing. I actually have the the bow and use a build that manages to get the help shingen needs for a full burst. I also have a Belial.

So is it still worth it to go for the lance?

[Slashley]

Well thats the thing. I actually have the the bow and use a build that manages to get the help shingen needs for a full burst. I also have a Belial.

So is it still worth it to go for the lance?Wait, who in Fire even can do that?

Anyway, it's up to you. You meet both requirements to use the Bow effectively - if you feel like you prefer that gamestyle, go ahead. The only downside is that you're locked into whoever helps Shingen at all times.

[Cobblemaniac]

Wait, who in Fire even can do that?

Anyway, it's up to you. You meet both requirements to use the Bow effectively - if you feel like you prefer that gamestyle, go ahead. The only downside is that you're locked into whoever helps Shingen at all times.

Svarog Ares Uriel comes pretty close all things considered. Svarog has her +20 burst, and Ares Uriel have their respective combo+ passives. Sure, it's not as absolutely optimised as wind, but it's possible. The last girl will be the deadweight though.

[Unregistered]

Wait, who in Fire even can do that?



I can use zeal with Ragaraja, but tbh, I dont even do it, as Im getting at least one double attack most of the time.

[Xenosis69]

Svarog Ares Uriel comes pretty close all things considered. Svarog has her +20 burst, and Ares Uriel have their respective combo+ passives. Sure, it's not as absolutely optimised as wind, but it's possible. The last girl will be the deadweight though.

Interesting, would you suggest I use the Bow instead of the Lance for my wind team then ?
11704
Shingen, Cu Chulainn, Titania, Poseidon, Iblis, Oberon, Principality

[Slashley]

Svarog Ares Uriel comes pretty close all things considered.--I meant help Shingen reach her 100 burst again after PF~
I can use zeal with Ragaraja, but tbh, I dont even do it, as Im getting at least one double attack most of the time.Well, if you're willing to entrust your soul to RNG, go for it.

[Cobblemaniac]

I meant help Shingen reach her 100 burst again after PF~Well, if you're willing to entrust your soul to RNG, go for it.

Naruhodo.

Uh... That's future content.

Sadly.

[MagicSpice]

Probably a good place to put this but anyway..

Herc axe or arthur weapon (the one doubling her atk buff) for fire? Which way should I go assuming I can stick PF on either one?

Starting to rack up some fire regalia and it is my 2nd best team...

[Cobblemaniac]

Probably a good place to put this but anyway..

Herc axe or arthur weapon (the one doubling her atk buff) for fire? Which way should I go assuming I can stick PF on either one?

Starting to rack up some fire regalia and it is my 2nd best team...

Herc, because you die less quickly.

[MagicSpice]

Herc, because you die less quickly.

herc axe round 2 then....

in fact, i'm getting close to a lv100 one for my light team as well

[Unregistered]

Wait, who in Fire even can do that?

Anyway, it's up to you. You meet both requirements to use the Bow effectively - if you feel like you prefer that gamestyle, go ahead. The only downside is that you're locked into whoever helps Shingen at all times.

Not that a fire team would normally use her, but technically there's Taigong Wang/Taikoubou. +35 burst to a single ally every 5 turns. And there goes the bulk of her worth since she's still an R.
Otherwise... yea, I think that you're stuck with zeal effects from either Yamaraja or later valentine's Ame-no-Uzume.

[Unregistered]

I have michael, which will soon awaken to a burst machine. So i am planning on switching from Herc to using Shingen with my light team when that happens and Shingen gets buffed also.

My question is which soul weapon should i focus on for shingen. A lot of people seem to favor the lance. Is the 30% elemental attack from lance worth giving up the 300% burst damage if i *should* be able to keep up with burst using Michael?

[Unregistered]

I have michael, which will soon awaken to a burst machine. So i am planning on switching from Herc to using Shingen with my light team when that happens and Shingen gets buffed also.

My question is which soul weapon should i focus on for shingen. A lot of people seem to favor the lance. Is the 30% elemental attack from lance worth giving up the 300% burst damage if i *should* be able to keep up with burst using Michael?

Mike AW give you a faster burst cycle, and you will need the lance to keep up with that fast cycle

[Itoshira]

Main reasons for using the Lance on Shingen:

With the additional 15 BG she gets from her first skill, you can ensure that she can burst after using Provisional Forest. With Michael you can directly Burst on the same turn if Shingen has 95 BG.
Additionally, you also wanna ensure that she has enough BG when you reach your next PF-Cycle, which you pretty much do with the extra BG aswell. Outside of that, she can also happen to have a single Burst during your PF-Cooldown, which speeds up the BG of your Hime aswell.

In conclusion: Lance gives you just so much more safety when it comes to BG gain and buffed FBs.

[Unregistered]

That's also not 300% burst damage you're giving up; the burst performance buff from awakened Michael's San Michel includes +100% burst damage. That plus PF's 200% leaves you 200% short of the cap. Anything else you have that offers +burst damage further closes the gap.

[Slashley]

With the additional 15 BG she gets from her first skill, you can ensure that she can burst after using Provisional Forest. --That's no longer necessary after Shingen's new EX, though.

Still, I'd also recommend the Lance. 30% Elemental is nothing to scoff at, unless you're running double P2W Eidolons.

[Cobblemaniac]

That's no longer necessary after Shingen's new EX, though.

Still, I'd also recommend the Lance. 30% Elemental is nothing to scoff at, unless you're running double P2W Eidolons.

15 extra BG is still what's gonna confirm you into being able to FB on the very turn you cast your PF, along with her MEX tho.

[Slashley]

15 extra BG is still what's gonna confirm you into being able to FB on the very turn you cast your PF, along with her MEX tho.Technically, Michael+non-buffed first skill+MEX (is "MEX" a thing now?) is enough, but that just kills your next burst cycle.

So yeah, I do agree with you.

[Unregistered]

MEX takes too much context right now; it requires knowing that Master Points come in the future, knowing that souls can use said MP to learn up to 2 new EX skills each, and that one of the new ones for the Shingen line of souls is +20 burst to all on a 6 turn cooldown. And none of us ever refer to it by something resembling its name as this stuff isn't out here yet and we don't know the official translation's gonna be.
(btw, it's 鼓舞激励, or Kobugekirei. If you plug it into an online dictionary like jisho.org, you get back 'encouragement')

[Cobblemaniac]

MEX takes too much context right now; it requires knowing that Master Points come in the future, knowing that souls can use said MP to learn up to 2 new EX skills each, and that one of the new ones for the Shingen line of souls is +20 burst to all on a 6 turn cooldown. And none of us ever refer to it by something resembling its name as this stuff isn't out here yet and we don't know the official translation's gonna be.
(btw, it's 鼓舞激励, or Kobugekirei. If you plug it into an online dictionary like jisho.org, you get back 'encouragement')

MEX = Master EX skill. Nothing complicated there. You're not gonna tell me any community refers to game terms with 100% fidelity to the official terms.

Also, what context is required out of knowing you have extra EX skills available to use? You just need to know it's there, and you can use them in the future. Done. Simple.

[Unregistered]

There's still the ambiguity that each soul line gets two new ex skills. So additional context somewhere in the conversation is needed to know that it's the +20 burst gauge ex and not the +25% burst streak ex.

[Slashley]

There's still the ambiguity that each soul line gets two new ex skills. So additional context somewhere in the conversation is needed to know that it's the +20 burst gauge ex and not the +25% burst streak ex.Are there even any other MEX worthy of even mentioning?

A quick glance and only these caught my eye:
- Shingen's completely OP BS +20 burst party buff
- Mordred's orb eater (have fun with Cthulhu+Snow Raph+Dagon+Satan or something, huehuehuehuehuehue... no actual place in anything serious probably, but fun)
- Dartagnan's Mammon-like nuke. She can't PF anyway, so a nuke mite-b-cool.

Obviously, there's only one winner MEX.

[Cobblemaniac]

Are there even any other MEX worthy of even mentioning?

A quick glance and only these caught my eye:
- Shingen's completely OP BS +20 burst party buff
- Mordred's orb eater (have fun with Cthulhu+Snow Raph+Dagon+Satan or something, huehuehuehuehuehue... no actual place in anything serious probably, but fun)
- Dartagnan's Mammon-like nuke. She can't PF anyway, so a nuke mite-b-cool.

Obviously, there's only one winner MEX.

You forgot Solomon cd reset MEX for tower.

[Itoshira]

Shingen's Burst Streak can have some usage.
Herc's Overlimit Buff is also not to underestimate.
Andromeda's Defiance Buff can be of use with a taunt/cover target.
Solomon's CD Reset is incredible useful.
Joan's stackable Def buff shine's in longer battles.

Notable mention:
Arthur's MEX are both not so bad. Her Crit buff is raid wide.
Sieg's Dmg upper limit Buff can have some usage as well.

In the end, most MEX skills can be of use, just like Souls. Unless you narrow your view on only a specific Team-Composition, then of course you will only use 1, maybe 2.

[Slashley]

--
Unless you narrow your view on only a specific Team-Composition, then of course you will only use 1, maybe 2.Well, it's easy to say "narrow down and only view a specific thing" but... unfortunately the maths behind this game doesn't really bend that way. Is there ever a reason to use anyone except Shingen or Herc? And how can Overlimit compare to using PF on Herc?

Because it looks like Joan would be a thing for supporting (true) Ragnarok Disasters, but aside from that, are you really ever going to use anyone but one of those three?
In before GO Soul specific missions, or ultra-space whales using Sieg to break damage caps.

[Itoshira]

There are plenty of reason to use other Souls then just Shingen or Herc. First of, if you dont have a team that has some decent speed, they are actually more of a burden or solo-actor when it comes to pacing.

Andromeda is even more important in True Ragnarok then Joan is (what use do you have for a random appearing dmg cut when there is no danger incoming?). Both together make the Raid inredible safe for everyone though.

Solomon becomes an incredable nuker with her reset skill, even outside of Tower. Dropping 2m+ damage in one turn can help out a lot on controlling bosses.

Hercs Overlimit makes her an incredible nuker and overall attacker in a couple turns already. With a mediocre setup I casually threw 1.8m Full Breaks around, not even mentioning her Burst damage that went to cap just like that.

Just some examples. Sure, if you have the perfect setup for a consistent 2/3 turn FB pacing, it makes sense to go for Shingen only.

[Cobblemaniac]

Shingen or PF

Well good luck getting that early on. Remember HSP? Shingen's still only accessible to vets for a good bit.

Basically... while Shingen or Herc is the go to soul for us vets... you still gotta remember that for players before that stage, new metas surrounding MEXs for other souls are still possible.


Support

Joan and Andro. You need both the dmg cut and the sustain. Unless you run a raid of 12 perfectly organised Joans.


Using Arthur

Pretty convenient for still getting your fast PF options in hrag raids where getting MVP significantly reduces your grind.

[Unregistered]

Well, it's easy to say "narrow down and only view a specific thing" but... unfortunately the maths behind this game doesn't really bend that way. Is there ever a reason to use anyone except Shingen or Herc? And how can Overlimit compare to using PF on Herc?

Because it looks like Joan would be a thing for supporting (true) Ragnarok Disasters, but aside from that, are you really ever going to use anyone but one of those three?
In before GO Soul specific missions, or ultra-space whales using Sieg to break damage caps.

People use Shingen and Herc as end game options, people who aren't strong enough have to opt in for other things. You use Joan or Mordred as a newbie, you use D'art on maybe some other situations that calls for it, Solomon with her MEX can sweep towers, gem time quests, dungeon crawling and Andromeda is also a core part of being raid support not just Joan. The only 2 i cant find a reason for most people to use are Sieg and Arthur. Why bother with Shingen or Herc if you are not a damage carry on high rags? You are not doing a huge part of the work so why not opt in for other shit that could help like Andromeda or Joan as you said.

[Slashley]

There are plenty of reason to use other Souls then just Shingen or Herc. First of, if you dont have a team that has some decent speed, they are actually more of a burden or solo-actor when it comes to pacing.How so? Herc in particular offers you basically EVERYTHING you want. Damage, durability, debuff. How is that a burden in any way?
Andromeda is even more important in True Ragnarok then Joan is (what use do you have for a random appearing dmg cut when there is no danger incoming?). Both together make the Raid inredible safe for everyone though.Well, that'll depend on what kind of moveset these things have. That's something I'll know better when we get to see them in action.
Solomon becomes an incredable nuker with her reset skill, even outside of Tower. Dropping 2m+ damage in one turn can help out a lot on controlling bosses.And, when isn't just running Herc with her 700k not good enough? We're talking like one turn slower (700k nuke + auto-attacks should do it), while Herc is also:
1. immortal,
2. offers the team a unique debuff,
3. team-wide PF buff,
4. nearly guaranteed to not being Soul-capped for burst speed, which also results in higher attack damage in general.

It is difficult to imagine content where it's easier to give up ALL of that just so that you can move a boss in or out of Rage one turn earlier. I mean, it's possible, but 1. it needs to be content where's you're walking on thin-thread where one side is that you can clear it, and the other side is that you can't clear it 2. you need to be familiar enough with the content to be able to make the call that you should be able to do it with Solomon, but not with Herc without RNG landing just right - this for example takes out Tower since you can't just experiment with the content to see how it goes.
Hercs Overlimit makes her an incredible nuker and overall attacker in a couple turns already. With a mediocre setup I casually threw 1.8m Full Breaks around, not even mentioning her Burst damage that went to cap just like that.That doesn't sound right at all. Not only that you were glorifying 2m damage from Solomon just a few lines earlier, and now Herc is doing just about the same.

But also, just what kind of values does Over Limit offer? Since right now, I can't even find those from DMM wiki. Not Herc's Page or the MP page lists anything... it does seem to stack, but still calling doubt on that. Something like that might happen if you ran the Bow for example, and you wouldn't do that, would you?

This is the part where you say double buffed P2W Eidolons and that you're using the Bow for memes. Outside of a situation like that, it's still hard to see Overlimit out-do PF. Depends on the kind of values it has.



I mean, I'd just love to see more variety in Soul choices. But unfortunately, it's ultimately a game of maths, and the devs have made a couple of choices WAY too good to be true.
Well good luck getting that early on. Remember HSP? Shingen's still only accessible to vets for a good bit.

Basically... while Shingen or Herc is the go to soul for us vets... you still gotta remember that for players before that stage, new metas surrounding MEXs for other souls are still possible.
People use Shingen and Herc as end game options, people who aren't strong enough have to opt in for other things. You use Joan or Mordred as a newbie, you use D'art on maybe some other situations that calls for it, --While true, this brings forth the next question: how accessible is MP to new players?

If it's like candy, then sure. Player progression will probably still stick to Mordred -> (Joan ->) meta (as in Shingen/Herc), but they can pick up new skills along the way... IF MP is easy to come by. And if the skills are better than the passive upgrades. And how much passive upgrades is 15 MP? Like 45% stats? That's a lot for a new player...
Pretty convenient for still getting your fast PF options in hrag raids where getting MVP significantly reduces your grind.Does it? How does the drop system work?

Since at least for Ult Disasters, really the only that matters is that you're hosting. Whether or not get the extra Fragments... doesn't really even matter, thanks to the Shop system handicapping your purchases so badly. Even if the drop system is the same, maybe it'll matter more for the (true) Ragnaroks since I believe they require a hefty amount of Regalia to spawn, which makes them a massive chore to host in mass.

[Unregistered]

Depending on how much one uses any of the other soul lines, as that decision point dictates things moreso than the ex skills themselves. The new ex skills are fine stuff to consider in a debuff resistant context (or, one in which your kamihime take care of all your debuff needs) once you've already committed to such and such soul.

Arthur (presumably you're Shingen-less if you're using Arthur): 20% chance of +20% crit damage for 2 turns is kind of weak, but it buffs all participants (exactly like how Arthur's atk buff targets all participants). Granted, it'll take coordination to get the most out of this in a raid/union fight. Alternatively, you're using Gawain for Ambush and want the crit buff for whatever reason (possibly being someone else's crit buff slave).
As for the self-only 40-50% vigor buff... ehhhh.

Joan (you've decided to commit your soul to defense): the single ally 100% damage cut on a 6 turn cooldown can be nice if you're looking for that ol' cover/invincibility combo to deal with random targeting overdrives. If you want that combo in one unit, use the ex with Roland. Olivier already offered a self only invincibility skill, but it's on a 8 turn cooldown. The new ex being 6 turns lines up with Roland's cover.
As for the stacking 4% def buff every 2 turns for up to 30 turns? Yea, that's long duration content only. I can come up with some uses for it for my own situation, but it's rather niche/specific to certain events.

Andromeda line (if you really want your soul to be a healer with maiden's prayer/chaos magic/res access): party-wide debuff block on... 8 turn cooldown? Very encounter specific. I don't think this would be used much outside of Medusa reprint.
Single ally endure buff on 8 turn cooldown? You can make a knock-off version of the cover/invincibility combo with that... if you're opting for the Andromeda line over the Joan line for whatever reason. But hey, if you've already committed to this soul line, it's an option.

Solomon line (why?... oh right, you want to do 0 turn stuff): Some big ability performance buff? Guess in case you're bringing in a nuke heavy party for those 0 turn shenanigans.
Self-only ability refresh? You're relying on yourself for said 0 turn shenanigans.

Siegfried (uhh, someone help me out here with what specific plans call for the Siegfried line): Self-only guaranteed double attacks for 3 turns every 6 turns? DPS-wise it should lose out to using Arthur's 3x-4x nuke every 6 turns (until said nuke rams into its 300k damage cap), but you do get the burst gauge buildup instead. Ehh, if I had plans for Siegfried, I'd probably use the other ex more than this one?
Party-wide soft damage cap buff. Well then. Presumably you're so strong, you're desperate for this sort of thing. That does not describe most of us.

Mordred (more for the lower power teams and/or for more conservative play; also, likely not to be used in debuff-resistant content): 6 turn cooldown orb eraser? It fits what you're trying to do if you're opting for Mordred in the first place. Fine option if I'm not going for Chaos Magic in the particular encounter. A-frame def debuff presumably taken care of by a hime.
Nuke based on # of debuffs applied? And no numbers given for the scaling yet? Bah, can't really comment on that beside the relatively high damage cap (700k?).

D'art: Eh, basically what you said. Mammon-like nuke's something nice when your ex slot choice comes down to 'damage'. And I skipped Snatch EX cause nobody cares about a Snatch version 4, right?

Hercules (when you still want the Herc axe def debuff and/or the one man army awesomeness): self only atk/damage cap stacking buff? Ehh.... does the cap stacking apply to full break?
A nuke that does 5% of current HP every 7 turns with a cap of 600k? You need an enemy with at least 12 million HP remaining to keep hitting that cap. And you'll need an enemy with at least 6 million HP remaining to get at least 300k damage from this to beat Arthur's nuke. And who knows where Overdrive caps at if the enemy's raging. By raw HP count alone, you're looking at lv 90/lv 100 raid type stuff to have encounters durable enough for multiple uses of this nuke to be relevant. But I don't know how those work. So I don't know if a Herc user can last long enough to get off multiple uses.
Alternatively, for leechers who want to at least contribute a bit of 0 turn damage, this is an option.

Morgan (you have some specific plan requiring party-wide berserk): first ex is... you give an ally a 1 turn cover buff? Ok, ok, you can put together that cover/invincibility combo if your team composition somehow has someone with self-only invincibility but no way of providing cover. Or combo with interceptor.
And the other ex is... give an ally a 10% pursuit buff for 3 turns on a 6 turn cooldown. Pure dps-wise, this sucks for the most part. I have some other guesses, but the issue is, I don't fully understand pursuit. Does a pursuit attack generate burst? Then this could function as 3 extra attacks worth of burst gauge. Does a pursuit attack apply effects that a normal attack would?

Shingen (the meta default): Encouragement. It's the usual meta choice.
That said, the +25% burst streak buff? There's a use for that when you don't need encouragement as much and/or you hit so hard, +burst streak is one of those things you dig up to try to circumvent soft damage caps. Again, that's a power level that does not describe most of us.

[Unregistered]

MP is gotten through either continually gaining experience with a lv 20 soul (50k exp for 1 MP I think?) or through exchanging soul points/hero soul points.

As far as Shingen goes, hero soul points are time gated. So a new player must wait X time before unlocking her. In the meantime, in theory, you can grind your ass off for an arbitrary number of MP via exp, as long as you still have the half-elixirs/seeds to keep you going.

[Itoshira]

How so? Herc in particular offers you basically EVERYTHING you want. Damage, durability, debuff. How is that a burden in any way?Well, that'll depend on what kind of moveset these things have. That's something I'll know better when we get to see them in action.And, when isn't just running Herc with her 700k not good enough? We're talking like one turn slower (700k nuke + auto-attacks should do it), while Herc is also:
1. immortal,
2. offers the team a unique debuff,
3. team-wide PF buff,
4. nearly guaranteed to not being Soul-capped for burst speed, which also results in higher attack damage in general.

It is difficult to imagine content where it's easier to give up ALL of that just so that you can move a boss in or out of Rage one turn earlier. I mean, it's possible, but 1. it needs to be content where's you're walking on thin-thread where one side is that you can clear it, and the other side is that you can't clear it 2. you need to be familiar enough with the content to be able to make the call that you should be able to do it with Solomon, but not with Herc without RNG landing just right - this for example takes out Tower since you can't just experiment with the content to see how it goes.

Yes, she offers all that, and all that is bound to requirements. No buffs? She is weak like any other soul and complicates PF usage. No Relic? No Burst? No Debuff. She gains much BG? Great, how about all your other hime? Are they ready aswell? Herc is just like Shingen, bound to conditions, if they are not right, then she is has lesser value.
And once again, if you happen to have a proper team that can make use of all she offers in a proper lossless way, it is totally fine, but before that, some other options are just maybe better overall. And sometimes that 1 turn is exactly that important to avoid getting killed. I dont wanna eat a 10k AoE if I can avoid it have to avoid getting an AoE Paralyze, Burst-Lock, Abi-Lock on my ass. 1 turn can matter far more then you think.


That doesn't sound right at all. Not only that you were glorifying 2m damage from Solomon just a few lines earlier, and now Herc is doing just about the same.

But also, just what kind of values does Over Limit offer? Since right now, I can't even find those from DMM wiki. Not Herc's Page or the MP page lists anything... it does seem to stack, but still calling doubt on that. Something like that might happen if you ran the Bow for example, and you wouldn't do that, would you?

Herc needs more help to reach that damage while solomon has pretty much everything herself and only needs the debuffs. Also, the exammple with Overlimit was in regards to sticking to PF on Herc. So nothing to do with Solomon and her damage, as Herc needs 10 turns to reach that point, so Solomon already did 2 rounds of that damage.

Used Hime were: Atum, Tish, Diana, Michael.
Weapon: Herc Axe
Eidolon: 45% Thunderbird + 120% Fluffy Non-Friend (2 Light Eidos in Sub, so not even reached max value of that Fluffy)
Average power at the point of this: Round about 50k or something, 100 - 120% Assault (I dont exactly remember how much I had, but it should be around that point)
Target: Dark Cata Ultimate

If I aint wrong, Overlimit increases per stack 10% Overall Damage Cap, Abi damage, abi damage cap, Burst damage. Up to 5 stacks possible

I actually could use the current Dummy-Event and test this once momre to see if I can break the 2m. I have Michael AW now :thinking: and strong grid


This is the part where you say double buffed P2W Eidolons and that you're using the Bow for memes.

I'm 100% F2P on DMM and only buy MTix on Taco. No need to bash around like this.


I mean, I'd just love to see more variety in Soul choices. But unfortunately, it's ultimately a game of maths, and the devs have made a couple of choices WAY too good to be true.

And you can have that, you just need to step away from math and you are seeing a wonderful world of variety of possibilities.

Edit: Well, it seems like I hit the cap since I cant get any higher. Below the screenshots of my personal best so far.
http://prntscr.com/m0uttx
http://prntscr.com/m0utvw

[Slashley]

Yes, she offers all that, and all that is bound to requirements. No buffs? She is weak like any other soul and complicates PF usage. No Relic? No Burst? No Debuff.I don't understand this at all. Herc's buffs are 5/7 uptime. Are they down? Yes. But then it's quickly back to immortality land and she keeps healing up. No burst isn't really an issue, since anyone can get a Soul weapon in ~7 days with the help of their Union - and with it, Herc is rather fast. It takes ~30 days to get LMB version, which might get on the nerves of Union mates though.
She gains much BG? Great, how about all your other hime?That's when you have the choice of applying your burst debuff. Vastly depends on content and team comp, though.
-- 1 turn can matter far more then you think.Very true, but again, you'd need to know that this one turn will be a thing in this run. Reminder that you're going to be running non-Herc all the way until this very point - so your team's damage output is probably not going to be particularly impressive all the way up until this very moment where you need the spike damage. Are you going to reach the same moment with a very different team?

Again, technically, it's possible. But practically speaking, sounds very, very unlikely.

Or of course I could be all wrong about Solomon's damage output with the reset MEX.
So nothing to do with Solomon and her damage, as Herc needs 10 turns to reach that point, so Solomon already did 2 rounds of that damage.Oh, that's true. Fair enough.
If I aint wrong, Overlimit increases per stack 10% Overall Damage Cap, Abi damage, abi damage cap, Burst damage. Up to 5 stacks possibleSo, that's effectively double cap then. 1.4m. However, reaching 1.8m would require 5.8m pre-cap damage... that's not quite something you can do with the set-up you mentioned unless there's another ability cap increase in there.

However, 8 Def on Ult Disaster will help your damage output a lot. Not something I'd quote as a damage reference.
And you can have that, you just need to step away from math and you are seeing a wonderful world of variety of possibilities.Which are all vastly inferior. It's great if you're doing lesser content in which you virtually cannot wipe, but why risk it in anything else?

[Itoshira]

Atum has Abi damage + Abi damage Cap up aswell on her Cooldown skill. Her heal gets an additional effect of dmg increase. Hercs Ability Master Stat also increasing Ability cap. And I did the same setup again on Dummy, which has 10 Def afaik and I reached 1.85m, so I assume that I'mm capped and it wont go higher then that unless I gain another source of cap increase.

It depends on your team if you can reach the same damage or not. Lets put my DMM team for example. You know who the star of that team is? Vishnu. The whole team basically is all about her and get her going. LAthena for protection is perfect for that, so she is still a choice over Atum in my regular line-up. And Vishnu is even more consistent when it comes to Bursting then Herc is. She is ready to Burst on Turn 3 (Granted +20BG from Michael to do so). And after that she basically bursts every 2 or 3 turns consistently.
Herc is only used to have 50% Def down in total. I would instantly switch her for Shingen or Sieg if I had another debuffer as Hime, sadly I dont have one, so I need her right now.

Lemme drop another example: My Thudner Team. Dear god, this is a dream for probably many Thunder mains. BaalU, Marduk AW, Nuwa, Dian, Tyr, Mammon. Full SSR top-notch team. Here is the kicker: The Grid is just way to weak do go berkserk-pew-pew-style.

Herc? Not even considering her, cause in this case Mordred has proven FAR more useful then Herc. This team is not fast but extremly sustainable, has Def down by Hime themself, so all I need is some stalling options and Mordred with her Orb Eater + BP makes it perfect. When I get Shingen, I may tinker around with her, to check out the limits of the sustain then, since I then have more speed for Dian, but unless that point, Mordred has proven superior over any other Soul.

So in conclusion: Not just content and Team is a factor, also your Grid/Eidos should be considered.

That is the very same for the MEX skills aswell, they are depending on content and team.

[Slashley]

Atum has Abi damage + Abi damage Cap up aswell on her Cooldown skill. Her heal gets an additional effect of dmg increase. Hercs Ability Master Stat also increasing Ability cap. And I did the same setup again on Dummy, which has 10 Def afaik and I reached 1.85m, so I assume that I'mm capped and it wont go higher then that unless I gain another source of cap increase.--You'd spend MP on THAT?

So combined with Atum, this was mostly the case of you having 1.8m or 1.85m cap. Probably 1.80m considering how you hit 1.85m against 10 Def and 1.88m against 8 Def. It's still a very nice number, but I'd say that you vastly overglorified it and failed to mention the amount of support cap-increase you've piled on it.

[Itoshira]

Sure, why not? Where is the problem with that? I guess it aint obvious enough what the goal of this roster/setup was? To basically make Herc a nuking monster in maximizing Ability Damage on her in addition to let her burst and attack like a monster. Else I wouldnt choose to set it up like that. You either go in one direction all the way or drop it. But if you do, make sure it reaches it full potential, else it's gonna crash.

[Slashley]

-- Else I wouldnt choose to set it up like that. --I dunno, I think it's a more realistic approach to assume that people "bring what they can," not "bring the perfect optimal team for building up one specific thing."

Which I guess isn't even true as I'd assume that DMM Light has some Hime better in that aspect, but you get the idea.

[Itoshira]

Actually, not really. My Light over there is pretty much stated. Vishnu, Tish, LAthena, Michael AW, Atum. That's all the Light SSR I have.
Usually I run in that order aswell for the most content. Herc mainly debuffs and leads the BG-Game while the rest focuses on getting Vishnu going.
The other setup for Herc-Focus (LAthena out, Atum in) is basically for everything I wanna just smack away on the spot.

Checked through, doesnt seem like there are any other options to improve this. So yea, if you have Atum, this is an option, else, you wont reach that high, but Overlimit alone is already strong enough.
But yes, in the end, it depends on what you have available and make the most out of it.

[Unregistered]

You'd spend MP on THAT?

If you've got a plan in mind, the desire to see it through, some number of Sundays free to grind with, and the half-elixirs for it, why not? (this applies to chasing after any specific new ex skill needed for some idea you've got)
It's like...what, just under 10 runs of the 25 ap sp quest on Sunday to get 1 MP? And anyone considering this sort of shenanigans ought to be high enough to get back at least 50 AP per half-elixir. So we'll round it to 5 half-elixirs per MP. And how much MP you can power farm for in a single Sunday is up to your free time, determination, and half-elixir supply (presumably not much of an issue in a world with the post-2nd anniversary gemcha system).