[Event 67] Crucible of Combat vs The Demon Sloth

[Kitty]

Lilim Standard/Expert - Charge turn 3T (2T for standard) .. (only normal charge, no rage meter) charge does around 5K dmg to all allies, so prepare your ATK debuffs/ DEF buffs to allies/cover, etc....

[Bedevil]

An extra special banner for Christmas.
2 weapons im in desperate need of for the tower event, and the demons dont look particularly scary.

[Kitty]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/314411010301755392/517827326780768271/unknown.png

junior member that's what the ladies called me at high school

[Bedevil]

I'ts what they still call me now

[MagicSpice]

both those SSR weapons are looking rather nice...

pride/barrage isn't bad, but that assault/exceed is looking even better.

in fact, that combo can go hand-in-hand when you think about it....



An extra special banner for Christmas.
2 weapons im in desperate need of for the tower event, and the demons dont look particularly scary.

except tower likely ends before this so you'd need to wait until fire tower shows up again (if it does)

[Slashley]

both those SSR weapons are looking rather nice...All UE rewards are Pride/something, Assault/Exceed. It's the only source of Exceed weapons for F2P, really.

[MagicSpice]

All UE rewards are Pride/something, Assault/Exceed. It's the only source of Exceed weapons for F2P, really.

yeah, but some pride combos weren't good... there's quite a bit of hate on rush so the fire pride weapon is typically out, and regardless of your views on them, dark pride might be out cause pride/defender (even though it's really just small assault with a bonus with defender) and thunder pride honestly need multiple sources of stinger if you do want it (cause the closer you get to 100%, the better stinger gets). depends on the grid and the player to be honest...


even then, still should get those weapons anyway since SSR weapons you don't use make great skill leveling fodder... rewards are automatic anyway.

[nut]

both those SSR weapons are looking rather nice...

pride/barrage isn't bad, but that assault/exceed is looking even better.

in fact, that combo can go hand-in-hand when you think about it....




except tower likely ends before this so you'd need to wait until fire tower shows up again (if it does)

This event come next and Tower isn't out yet, so we probably got that 2 SSRs for fire tower

[AutoCrimson]

since Nutaku hosts OG, how bout they just sell tower medals in shop

[Laventale]

@kitty

Since I'm not playing anymore (not even opening Taco's page and stuff), can you send me a PM or anything when a event is gonna start? So I can pin the threads up.

[Kitty]

@kitty

Since I'm not playing anymore (not even opening Taco's page and stuff), can you send me a PM or anything when a event is gonna start? So I can pin the threads up.

tower of malice starts on the 2nd, so the UE should start the 8-9th. pin it in about a week i guess

[Slashley]

yeah, but some pride combos weren't good...There's no such thing as a bad UE weapon. They have 15% Assault and a secondary effect, that's way better than anything else a F2P player can get their hands on. It'll only become a question once you have a full FLB Grid from Advents and stuff, and that's going to take quite the while.
-- dark pride might be out cause pride/defender (even though it's really just small assault with a bonus with defender)--Except that Assault/HP is probably the best thing you can get.

[Laventale]

Enjoy your shitty event.

/pinned

[Kitty]

cheers sexc

[Unregistered]

Since I lack Thor and Sloth's rather gimmicky, I'm opting to try out a gimmick too. Vivian/Tyr/Indra/Cyclops/Sol, with a 0* Behemoth as one of my sub eidolons. Anybody else going gimmicky, or sticking with more of their usual lineups?

[Delete]

As Demon Sloth lacks Rage/Stun, Tyr seems a very bad idea, sorry. :fear:

[Unregistered]

Oh yea, I know. I've had Tyr the last time Sloth was held too. Tyr's just there for the def debuff, plus I don't think I have another cleanse option for thunder (although I should double check at some point...). I could go off element, but Sol's enough of that.

[Gludateton]

dark pride might be out cause pride/defender (even though it's really just small assault with a bonus with defender)
Wait, do I get you right ? You want to say that FLB Dark UE Axe (15% + some assault and 15% HP) is not good ? Really ?


thunder pride honestly need multiple sources of stinger if you do want it (cause the closer you get to 100%, the better stinger gets). depends on the grid and the player to be honest...
According to JP wiki Stingers are rolled separetely, if I calculated it right (which I may not) avarage damage is the same as cumulative though (not including damage caps). So no, relative damage increase is lower the more Stinger you have.

In overall, unless you have some fat strong dual weapons I can't see a reason to pass on FLB UE weapon (aside from not enough materials to FLB/enhance), they are after all at least 15% assault (one percent short of large assault) and something.

[Slashley]

According to JP wiki Stingers are rolled separetely, if I calculated it right (which I may not) avarage damage is the same as cumulative though (not including damage caps). So no, relative damage increase is lower the more Stinger you have.The way I read it, Stinger S, Stinger M and Stinger L are rolled separately (also buffs separately). But multiple Stinger S - such as Gluttony Guns - would add up to a maximum of 100% proc chance. I mean, if you got 7 of them (assuming that the current theory on skill level scaling is correct).

Anyway. Often when you start getting closer to 100%, the more powerful something gets... but I don't think that applies to Crits. It makes them more reliable sure, but I don't think that matters here.

[Gludateton]

The way I read it, Stinger S, Stinger M and Stinger L are rolled separately (also buffs separately). But multiple Stinger S - such as Gluttony Guns - would add up to a maximum of 100% proc chance. I mean, if you got 7 of them (assuming that the current theory on skill level scaling is correct).
Wording on JP wiki suggests that every weapon is rolled separately. I have only one Gluttony Gun FLB for now, so I can't check it myself. Sorry.


Anyway. Often when you start getting closer to 100%, the more powerful something gets... but I don't think that applies to Crits. It makes them more reliable sure, but I don't think that matters here.
That's how it is for reductions (damage cuts, atk/def debuffs).
For increases the more you get the less relative increase is.
As for Stinger example:
1. You have 50% chance to deal 120% damage, your average damage is 110%. Realtive increase is 10% damage.
2. You have 100% to deal 120% damage, obviously your average damage is 120%. Relative increase to point 1. is 120/110 - 1 ~ 9.1%.
In general same holds true for all increases (assault, defense, elemental attack).

[MagicSpice]

Stinger effects (and others) if I'm reading that right have diminishing returns... sounds like another game I've played...

As for my comment with the Dark UE, it honestly isn't bad, but still depends on what someone has. If I have a grid full of dual weapons and I got to choose between Assault/Defender (assault being large) and the other is pride/defender, I'd rather just take the assault/defender unless I know my HP is gonna get low and be hard to maintain...

Pride (and eventually vigor) both get the small assault increase, but the bonus is based on HP and is honestly situational.

It's more based on how much you can maintain HP if someone wants max output.

Nothing against the weapons themselves, I just personally don't like something that's so RNG based

But then again, if you can get it to work, more power to you. I know vigor will be one hell of a farming tool since most times you farm is against stuff that barely can damage you.

This game is honestly very random as hell about everything and there's honestly so many options due to that

[Unregistered]

Vigorous doesn't touch assault.

[MagicSpice]

Vigorous doesn't touch assault.

If at max HP, skill lv 20 vigor has more increase than a skill lv 30 large assault

It's why I said it's good in cases where you won't see your HP dip much (and in offense builds against bosses that ohko you anyway)

But personally, I would use a large assault more since it's 21% no matter what when FLB

[Unregistered]

...no, I mean that vigorous doesn't modify assault/character atk. It adds to its own multiplier.

[MagicSpice]

...no, I mean that vigorous doesn't modify assault/character atk. It adds to its own multiplier.

You mean the bonus or both the bonus and the natural increase?

Either way, that honestly makes it seem more valuable (and explains why future eidolons get vigor)

[Cobblemaniac]

You mean the bonus or both the bonus and the natural increase?

Either way, that honestly makes it seem more valuable (and explains why future eidolons get vigor)

Breh, I made a wall of text post addressing that all the way back before you even left this forum mang...

Anyway it's assault x element x vigor now. That's what he means, not (assault + vigor) x element.

[MagicSpice]

Breh, I made a wall of text post addressing that all the way back before you even left this forum mang...

Anyway it's assault x element x vigor now. That's what he means, not (assault + vigor) x element.

i legit forgot about that...

[Gludateton]

Stinger effects (and others) if I'm reading that right have diminishing returns... sounds like another game I've played...
That's how it works for many games after all. That's also why many games tend to work damage mitigation as defense in KP and not straight up reduction.


As for my comment with the Dark UE, it honestly isn't bad, but still depends on what someone has. If I have a grid full of dual weapons and I got to choose between Assault/Defender (assault being large) and the other is pride/defender, I'd rather just take the assault/defender unless I know my HP is gonna get low and be hard to maintain...
That's a fair point, but I think don't think situation of "do I take FLB Assault/Defender or FLB Pride/Defender" will happen to that many of people soon (though I may be mistaken, because in late February/early March veteran players may have 8 FLB weapons from events alone).

[Slashley]

That's how it is for reductions (damage cuts, atk/def debuffs).
For increases the more you get the less relative increase is. --There's also Combo rate, which is positive.

Now, mathematically, the closer you get to 100% Combo rate shouldn't more damage per turn than at lower %s, but here, reliability is really important. At 99% Combo rate, with Murphy's Law activating on your Soul it takes you 10 turns to reach Full Burst (minus whatever turns your team can generate burst). But the moment you hit 100% Combo, that's dropped down to 5 turns max.

Now, obviously the chance of Murphy's Law happening gets reaaaaaaaaaally low long, long before 99% Combo rate. But it can happen, and you know what that Law says.

[Gludateton]

There's also Combo rate, which is positive.

Now, mathematically, the closer you get to 100% Combo rate shouldn't more damage per turn than at lower %s, but here, reliability is really important. At 99% Combo rate, with Murphy's Law activating on your Soul it takes you 10 turns to reach Full Burst (minus whatever turns your team can generate burst). But the moment you hit 100% Combo, that's dropped down to 5 turns max.

Now, obviously the chance of Murphy's Law happening gets reaaaaaaaaaally low long, long before 99% Combo rate. But it can happen, and you know what that Law says.

Combo rate is kind of special snowflake here, because it not only boosts damage, but also burst gauge gain, hence it's not so easy to actually calculate it's impact on damage.
The point about Murphy's Law also brings another aspect to whole talk, let's call it certainty. Effects with luck based aspect (crit / combo rate) may give you big boost if they roll right, and give you completely nothing if they roll wrong, as opposed to effects like assault. That's why using average for luck based things does not truly reflect what happens in-game unfortunately, but it's hard to judge stats otherwise.

[MagicSpice]

Well, while we're on the subject of luck.... how is pride and vigor accurately measured?

Both give a set increase (although to different parts of the damage formula). And then there's the fluctuation based on HP.

In the case of vigor, it's easy to have full effect at some point, but then luck could have a kami get combed down to low HP and lose full effect on that kami.

On the other end, pride needs low HP to have full effect (5% in fact which is very dangerous). You might again see only 1 kami get potshotted that low...

How much are these fluctuations actually contributing to overall damage? Cause it's honestly quite random and theoretically, the average increase should be looked at

[Slashley]

Well, while we're on the subject of luck.... how is pride and vigor accurately measured?SSR Pride is 1% Assault per 5% health lost. So at 85% HP it's at SR Assault levels and at 70% HP it's at SSR Assault levels.

Vigor on the other hand gives the full effect at 100% HP, half effect already at ~83% HP, and ZERO damage at 50% health or below.

Vigor is far stronger than Assault, but in return, you really, really, REALLY need to be at full health at all times to make use of it.
Both give a set increase (although to different parts of the damage formula). And then there's the fluctuation based on HP."Set" increase? Pride has that from skill levels - the same amount of Assault that you get from Assault weapons. Vigor does not.
On the other end, pride needs low HP to have full effect (5% in fact which is very dangerous). You might again see only 1 kami get potshotted that low...That's not what makes Pride good. Lowered HP in Pride just means bonus damage, nothing more, nothing less. What you care about is that it's gives you Assault at all times.

[Unregistered]

Vigor loses it's effect quite quickly with lowered HP, it basically has no effect at half hp. It's mainly powerful for a nukeing scenario like a full burst out of the gate, be it from saving up like in a GO from the previous stage, or during burst time. Particularly if you have good healers or kamis that can negate damage. Obviously, not so great against content that constantly hammers you with damage. Still, it's worth noting again, the reason Vigor is so strong is because it's a separate multiplier, so it really can't be compared to normal additional modifiers. That's because unlike the others, it doesn't have diminishing returns as your grid powers up.

Pride is actually quite valuable because at around 70% hp (for Large Pride every 30% loss is another 6%), it becomes as good as a large assault, and keeping at 70% hp isn't that hard/dangerous as you get more and more hp.

[MagicSpice]

I figured vigor is at it's best in pretty much quick fights where your HP doesn't drop much (or the full burst thing, making burst time even more powerful).

But pride kinda underestimated that one. Kinda overestimated vigor a bit too cause I didn't know the threshold for 0% was so large.

Honestly, it's starting like a good idea to hold onto more than 60 weapons (10 per element) now that we're getting frequent access to FLB pride and soon vigor

Then again, in the case of quicker fights, wonder how good ability damage even comes in, especially with rapid nukers like Svarog

[Dejnov]

SSR Pride is 1% Assault per 5% health lost. So at 85% HP it's at SR Assault levels and at 70% HP it's at SSR Assault levels.



Just wanted to check one point in your statement. If I have a Pride weapon at skill level 10 and I'm at full health, this is the same as having an Attack bonus of 5%. If I have the same weapon at 80% HP, I now have a weapon with an Attack 9% and if I'm at 50% health I have an Attack bonus of 15%?

Wow... that's actually fucking awesome!!


DEJNOV.

[Slashley]

Just wanted to check one point in your statement. If I have a Pride weapon at skill level 10 and I'm at full health, this is the same as having an Attack bonus of 5%. If I have the same weapon at 80% HP, I now have a weapon with an Attack 9% and if I'm at 50% health I have an Attack bonus of 15%?--Correct, correct, correct.

As I've always said, Prides are GOOD. Their constant Assault is plenty good, plus they come to your aid when you need them the most.

And it should be noted that these values are less for Pride(+) and Pride(). We don't have many of those weapons yet, but they scale less. It's... slightly more complicated and I don't remember how exactly it works, but they're still good.

[nonsensei]

And it should be noted that these values are less for Pride(+) and Pride(). We don't have many of those weapons yet, but they scale less. It's... slightly more complicated and I don't remember how exactly it works, but they're still good.

Pride(M).. or Pride(+) if we go with the silly taco system has the same base assault as the large skill, but the assault increase on HP loss gets cut to its 60%. So instead of 1%/5% HP loss, you get only 0.6%/5% HP loss.

Pride(S) gets the above described scaling cut and a decrease in base assault as well. This means 0.35% assault gained / SL, instead of 0.5%. Which results in 7% base assault at SL20.

[MagicSpice]

Pride(M).. or Pride(+) if we go with the silly taco system has the same base assault as the large skill, but the assault increase on HP loss gets cut to its 60%. So instead of 1%/5% HP loss, you get only 0.6%/5% HP loss.

Pride(S) gets the above described scaling cut and a decrease in base assault as well. This means 0.35% assault gained / SL, instead of 0.5%. Which results in 7% base assault at SL20.

by the sound of that, not even sure if Pride(S) is worth it....

(+) sounds like it's cutting it close...

probably depends on if the weapon has two abilities... (more so if one is pride, and the other ups two at once)

[Unregistered]

I wouldn't underestimate Pride(S) either. Typically, you'll only ever see/use Pride (S) in FLB weapons, where, due to 30 slvls, it's basically 10.5% more assault and +3% every 25% hp lost. There are a couple of FLB weapons that has this along with Assault L as the main skill, and it's basically some of the best weapons you can get because you're looking at something that gives 31.5% + assault in one slot.

[Unregistered]

Although I think the first event SSR with Pride (S) that we'll see is Medjed gun, and that's Defender (L)/Pride (S). Still viable due to the Defender at least. And since Medjed's an advent and the gun is the main/cheaper SSR for it, there should be an FLB some years later.

[MagicSpice]

I wouldn't underestimate Pride(S) either. Typically, you'll only ever see/use Pride (S) in FLB weapons, where, due to 30 slvls, it's basically 10.5% more assault and +3% every 25% hp lost. There are a couple of FLB weapons that has this along with Assault L as the main skill, and it's basically some of the best weapons you can get because you're looking at something that gives 31.5% + assault in one slot.

yeah, that's the time when pride is no problem.... assault/pride mix is the biggest assault increases you can ever get.


god forbid there ends up an FLB weapon with assault, pride, and vigor all in one... i do know some weapons get two effects merged into one skill, effectively making it a triple weapon in a way

[Slashley]

So, this event has ended. For future reference, here are the winners:

Experts:
1. Amaterasu 912
2. Ixion 850
3. Godtamers 729
4. Susurrus 728
5. NewForce 706
6. Spring 657
7. Пандорика (Pandorika)
8. Drama Club 650
9. =Akatsuki= 618
10. v(^^)w EU 546
...
15. Eternal 519
...
19. RedPhantom 441
...
??. _____
??. Axis Mundi
??. 談笑颩甡學習俓驗 (Talking and laughing)
30. Kingdom AR 344
??. The Fallen
??. Stardust

Ultimates:
1. Drama Club 827
2. Пандорика (Pandorika)
3. Ixion 746
4. Eternal 714
5. Susurrus 689
6. Amaterasu 685
7. Axis Mundi 671
7. NewForce 671
9. _____ 644
10. Stardust 633
11. =Akatsuki= 617
12. Spring 598
...
15. RedPhantom 568
16. Godtamers 554
...
??. 談笑颩甡學習俓驗 (Talking and laughing)
27. Kingdom AR 392
??. The Fallen
??. v(^^)w EU

PP:
1. Namsu 181m (Amaterasu)
2. Neopets Master 180m (_____)
3. Craysor 149m (Axis Mundi)
4. idunno 128m (Axis Mundi)
5. VERYVOODOO 118m (Ixion)
6. Autastic 117m (Spring)
7. Mickey 113m (_____)
8. Hinyu 100m (Drama Club)
9. Whitefudge 97m (Drama Club)
10. Bam 83m (Drama Club)
11. Sieun 80m (Godtamers)
12. Shiro 77m (Ixion)
13. Star 72m (Eternal)
14. Error 404 Not Found 71m (談笑颩甡學習俓驗 (Talking and laughing))
15. Slashley 67m (Kingdom AR)
16. Dunhere 63m (Susurrus)
17. Sithrael 61m (Drama Club)
18. steklovskii 59m (The Fallen)
19. Izumi 58m (RedPhantom)
20. Amethyst 58m (NewForce)

Well, that'll probably be the last time you see me in the rankings. Not gonna go through that effort again, eugh.Good work, everyone.

Nothing particularly interesting this time around. _____ has grown to eight members, but still seems to entirely rely on two people. If I had to pick something else, it would be that Drama Club isn't in the top5 probably for the first time? It's just Experts, so nobody cares, though.

[Gludateton]

If you want to know: The Fallen is on 125th rank in Experts with 71 high score, and 31th rank in Ultimates with 353 high score (damn).
Rather unimportant, but my own rank is 79th with 25,237,800 high score (I am too lazy for this shit).

[Torkov]

union v(^^)w EU, we ranked 32 for ultimate. with a high score of 324 and I ranked 200 with 13 165 251 PP
See ya next UE to get that damn top 30 spot XD