View Full Version : Best SR team for each element
In this thread from 2017, the user Felix compiled what he considered to be the best SR-only teams for each element. <br />
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Now, I'll try and make SR Teams with the current options available. Note that...
dreamlitz
08-09-2019, 09:46 PM
Why is light not mentioned? Let me try to take a quick stab at light:
Diana is probably core of any light SR team - she brings A frame def down, team-wide atk up and self heal/buffs. Light Ama is the only B frame debuffer, but it's only 10% and she's an event hime, so if you missed her event, you have to get lucky with advent raid ticket draws. I would pass on her and just EX sniper shot if you need B frame debuffs. No light SR C frame debuffers that I'm aware of. Sati has light rst down though and has strong nuke against dark and guaranteed critical.
If you need BP after you've already EX sniper shot, Forseti is your answer, who brings A frame atk down and combo down in addition to BP. Her BP CD is kinda long, but should be fine as long as things don't drag on for too long.
For heal, you're stuck with Belobog unless you have Attar from event or raid tickets. Attar's heal can cleanse once at lvl 65+, whereas Belobog has a separate cleanse skill. I usually prefer Attar 'cos Belobog's atk down is also A frame and covered by Forseti. Attar's cover + Kubera (R) nullify is also an awesome combo.
For offense, best ones imo are Durga and Anteros, 'cos they're fast and thus can actually increase your burst cycle speed. The old post mentioned Artemis, but she just nukes and does nothing else. Bursting more frequently is a much bigger dmg boost. I actually don't like Durga nor Anteros though - one is too RNG the other one is too fragile. I usually go with Durga, but ppl's preferences may be different.
Djehuti has a 5% hp passive that works even in sub, so she's your first choice for sub.
Also, it would be a mistake to build a non-SSR light team without mentioning two R himes:
1. Kubera, who brings single target nullify as well as a 40% team def buff on 2/4 CD but costs 15% hp (totally worth it though.)
2. Lunar Glory Caspiel, who brings the extremely rare C frame def down and a stacking frame def down.
Those two are my standard choices for all the use 3 R GO missions.
If I'm going glass canon, I would bring Durga, Diana, Sati, Caspiel.
If I want to turtle, I would bring Diana, Forseti, Attar, Kubera.
If I want a more balanced build, I usually drop Forseti for Durga or Sati - I really like Attar + Kubera combo, it's basically like a mini Gaia AW.
Thanks Dreamlitz for your input. I planned to edit the first post with a Light team, but I was overwhelmed by the many options and utility the element has. I mean, the source cited so many conflicting himes - namely I was not sure about running Uzume and Uranus alongside Diana, those 3 provide A-Frame Attack Up!... I'd need to build the team from scratch. Also, Light even got its own Black Propaganda with Forseti.
If I had to summarize a best team for Light, it would definitely have Diana, Amaterasu (I got her, and it is sweet not be forced to pick EX Sniper Shot), and Forseti. Djehuti as sub. Attar or Belobog as healers, or other hime if Andromeda is the Soul or content is easy enough.
Think mihr is worth a mention for fire. Been running essentially a fire SR team, mainly to experiment with, and she brings some solid consistency to it.
3 turns of rampage and +20% bg fill rate (7CD), 1 turn of whole frontline taunt and intercept (idk what the multiplier is but I've seen some high numbers for the shit grid I have), then boost her combo rate (4T, 9CD).
The cds are bit high, but they haven't been a problem getting a full burst every 5 turns.
Team I use is joan (SS), nataku, mihr, brynhildr, uriel.
I have culyune and Hephaestus, but anytime I use culyunes 3rd skill it crashes the game...very annoying.
DJL556
08-14-2019, 07:44 AM
I am, for the moment, F2P and a total noob. I “lucked” into 3x SSR Hime to start: Mars (fire), Mammon (thunder and Athena (light). As the new player gatcha and rewards rolled in, I ended up with two more light SR hime. The only element to compete was fire (SR Amon and one other), but I decided to go light. The question: go my last noob SR miracle ticket, not sure what to do with it.
Current team:
Athena (‘cause SSR)
Diana (‘cause everyone says so, my first miracle ticket)
Metis
Sukunahikona
I’ve got a few other “R” hime, but haven’t looked closely because I typically use the reserve for leveling other hime during low level content. To me, the obvious weak link here is Sukuna. The question is do I continue to build light and with who. I don’t think I have a healer...so...Belabog, I guess. Otherwise I can work on trying to fill out another element (Fire and Thunder are my most complete options, only have one Dark SR. My only SSR Eidolon align with Thunder and Dark). Thoughts?
dreamlitz
08-14-2019, 02:07 PM
Diana (‘cause everyone says so, my first miracle ticket)
Good choice, she will probably remain on your team most of the time unless you draw SSR Artemis, Lugh or Iris.
I’ve got a few other “R” hime, but haven’t looked closely because I typically use the reserve for leveling other hime during low level content.
See if you have Kubera. She will be awesome when paired with Athena's cover - complete dmg nullification every 2/10T for non-AoE attacks, and Athena provides 25% dmg cut 1/3T for the rest. Kubera also has 40% def up for 2/4T at 15% hp cost if you need to turtle more. If only they allowed you to use SR miracle tickets to get R, I would say Kubera is more valuable to you than other SRs.
To me, the obvious weak link here is Sukuna.
No, she is your primary dmg dealer right now (well Athena, too when she bursts.) I would drop Metis asap. You can use her to tank an AoE OD, get her killed and get a sub on, but is dead weight otherwise. Her weapon otoh, is very good for newbie though, so dun fodder it yet.
I don’t think I have a healer...so...Belabog, I guess.
Belobog is your only option if you insist on getting a healer (Attar is an event hime, although if by next April you still don't have her, you should be able to get her from epic quests.) However, I would actually run Cassio as soul if you want heal. You'll need to unlock her for CM anyway and she does the job so much better than Belobog. Also, you mentioned that you are f2p 'for the moment'. If you ever decide to change your mind, the beginner mtix for light gives you Sol and will make Belobog completely obsolete (if you're pretty sure $30 is too much for you or your account is older than 30 days, just ignore that last sentence, I'm just trying to cover all the bases here.)
My vote would actually go to Forseti. If you're going to play light and you missed getting light Ama from events and you don't have Tish, Lugh, Iris or Tsuku, you'll most likely be EX-ing sniper shot most of the time. Forseti's BP is invaluable in that case and she doesn't become obsolete unless you draw Raphael and AW her.
My only SSR Eidolon align with Thunder and Dark).
Doesn't matter. LB0 gacha eidolons suck. Farm as many standard and expert disaster raids as you can and get St. Nick or Barong MLB from the eidolon orb shop to use as your main. Do all events to get MLB SSR eidolons to boost your stats. Non-100% gacha eidolons are really only useful if you can LB them or you got ones with useful actives (e.g. Behemoth.)
DLJ: I like Metis (as she blocks afflictions, which comes in handy against that busted Dark Disaster) but would not main her.Athena is a good defensive hime, so your team's defense seems good with her alone. Still needs IMHO an healer, so either go with Andromeda or pick Belobog.The EX will be Sniper Shot most of the time.
Also, I feel your DPS could do better, as Diana is the only debuffer (aside the mandatory Sniper Shot). Try bringing Caspiel instead of Metis or Sukunahikona. Caspiel will debuff the shit out of the enemy's defense, and Athena will guarantee she won't be hit as often.
So your team could be:
Hercules or Shingen with Sniper Shot (Atk Def -20%) I picked these two because they have the better tools to fill their Bursts before Athena's
Athena (in front row as she will likely have the most HP and may profit from taking most of the damage, filling her burst.)
Diana (Def -15%. In front row because she can heal herself)
Belobog (as healer, and for her Atk -15%. Also her skillset makes both Sukunahikona -Regen- and Metis -afflictions healing- replaceable)
Caspiel (for Def -10%. 2 stacks of her other ability allows the team to reach the -50% Def down cap)
Caspiel may seem like the weak link in that build, but note that Athena and Belobog will work to keep her alive while she melts the enemy defense. She can be substituted when/if Hercules get her Soul Weapon that debuffs defense.
IF DONT WANT TO SPEND MT ON BELOBOG:
Andromeda with Sniper Shot
Athena
Diana
Sukunahikona (she brings in regeneration, but I still think that debuffing Atk with Belobog would fare better at keeping Caspiel alive. OTOH her stacking self-buffs can exploit the melted Defense, which can be a high-risk high-reward deal)
Caspiel
Dreamlitz: I don't think EX Black Propaganda (or Forseti for that matter) is mandatory for the team's survivability. Between Athena covering attacks and cutting damage every 3 turns, and Belobog providing -35% Attack Down and regeneration, the team could tank some Overdrives... Also, Athena, Diana and Hercules can buff their own defenses, so the lack of a group Defense buff is not a major drawback.
Think mihr is worth a mention for fire. Been running essentially a fire SR team, mainly to experiment with, and she brings some solid consistency to it.
3 turns of rampage and +20% bg fill rate (7CD), 1 turn of whole frontline taunt and intercept (idk what the multiplier is but I've seen some high numbers for the shit grid I have), then boost her combo rate (4T, 9CD).
The cds are bit high, but they haven't been a problem getting a full burst every 5 turns.
Team I use is joan (SS), nataku, mihr, brynhildr, uriel.
I have culyune and Hephaestus, but anytime I use culyunes 3rd skill it crashes the game...very annoying.
Checked out Mihr on Wiki, she looks awesome. Long CDs don't matter if the damage is high!
While still being a beginner, I advice against unlocking Andromeda. Note, that at first SP generation is very fast from level ups - you get your first legendary soul within days. Second one in a week or so (depending how hardcore). But unless you grind hard, third legendary soul will be unlocked months in. If you unlock Andromeda, you will either lack BP from Morderd or Sniper Shot for a very long time. Not only that, but at that point, you will likely want to go for Herc as third soul... So, unlocking Andro early on, will set you back many weeks. And by the time you get to her otherwise, a lot can change in your setup with even the f2p draws. Note that dreamlitz above recommends Cassiopeia, who is on the route to D'art anyway.
Slashley
08-14-2019, 04:27 PM
While still being a beginner, I advice against unlocking Andromeda. Note, that at first SP generation is very fast from level ups - you get your first legendary soul within days. Second one in a week or so (depending how hardcore). But unless you grind hard, third legendary soul will be unlocked months in. If you unlock Andromeda, you will either lack BP from Morderd or Sniper Shot for a very long time. Not only that, but at that point, you will likely want to go for Herc as third soul... --Yup.
Obligatory The "which Soul should I use?" thread (https://harem-battle.club/kamihime-project/4735-soul-thread.html) reminder.
It is worth noting that sometimes it is even advisable to run Cassiopeia's skillset over Andromeda's. You get slightly weaker healing and Defense buff, and in turn get access to her Chaos Magic without using a valuable EX slot. Resuscitation is not as overpowered as it may seem at first glance.
So yeah, D'art, Mordred and Hercules should be unlocked before Andromeda.
Slashley
08-14-2019, 05:02 PM
It is worth noting that sometimes it is even advisable to run Cassiopeia's skillset over Andromeda's. You get slightly weaker healing and Defense buff, and in turn get access to her Chaos Magic without using a valuable EX slot. Resuscitation is not as overpowered as it may seem at first glance.
So yeah, D'art, Mordred and Hercules should be unlocked before Andromeda.And Joan. Andromeda's heals are unlikely to save you against heavy hitters, whileas Joan's damage cut just might. This may allow you to clear some content way earlier than what you otherwise could.
Joan before Hercules, then. Survivability is key to newer players. So for the dude who wants to know whether Belobog is a good MT pick:
If he has Hercules unlocked, I'd still go Belobog.
If not, I'd run:
Cassiopeia with Sniper Shot (or Andromeda if unlocked)
Diana
Forseti (MT)
Caspiel
Athena
Forseti will bring Atk & Combo Down, and a Black Propaganda.
Cassiopeia will bring Defense Up, heals and dispels.
A bit less offensive power, a lot more defense and utility, so a team more suitable for a beginner indeed. I also stated Belobog obsoletes 2 of his himes (Sukunahikona and Metis), whereas Forseti brings only skills his current himes are lacking.
dreamlitz
08-14-2019, 08:51 PM
DLJ: I like Metis (as she blocks afflictions, which comes in handy against that busted Dark Disaster) but would not main her.
A few things here:
1. Both Metis' affliction block and dmg cut does NOT apply to herself, so she'll probably get killed pretty quickly, which is why you cannot rely on her in any endurance builds.
2. Her affliction block has a 10T CD, most other himes it's 8T or shorter (e.g. Amon and Pruflas)
3. Dark ult throws MULTIPLE afflictions at you almost EVERY SINGLE TURN unless you stun it at full orbs. Blocking one every 10T is NOT a good use of a hime slot against dark ult (and before someone calls me out on it, I do run Eros on my AAB build against dark ult, but hers is 8T CD, comes with ability dmg boost, and most importantly, Eros has barrier - which helps negate some of the DoT dmg - usually the barrier gets used up before it can even get dispelled by the boss; I also run Sol AW, and even with that you can't out-cleanse/block dark ult.)
Still needs IMHO an healer, so either go with Andromeda or pick Belobog.
While I'm not against healing, as Crow has pointed out, unlocking Andro as a newbie often ends up locking you out of other important souls, which is why I push ppl towards Cassio if they want heal.
Try bringing Caspiel instead of Metis or Sukunahikona. Caspiel will debuff the shit out of the enemy's defense, and Athena will guarantee she won't be hit as often.
I'm a big fan of debuffing and if you have Caspiel, you'll hit def down cap with her + Diana + SS. Don't write off Sukunahikona so quickly though. She doesn't look great on paper but she hits pretty hard for an SR - stack up her buffs before bursting, she has an SSR-level burst multiplier, make good use of it. Also, Caspiel isn't that frail and doesn't actually require extra protection. Once you have a good grid, the hp difference between R and SR is quite small.
So your team could be:
Hercules or Shingen with Sniper Shot (Atk Def -20%)
While those two are top-tier souls, they aren't that great for beginners. Shingen is not even accessible until you have at least 6 months of play (more now 'cos we'll see a lull in UE soon.) Both also need their respective soul weapon at MLB to really shine, and newbies aren't gonna be able to farm regalia that quickly. You need a stepping stone before you can get to those two (Cassio is still my vote for this player.)
Athena (in front row as she will likely have the most HP and may profit from taking most of the damage, filling her burst.)
Actually, she will be taking dmg 'cos of her cover skill. Front/back is not a reliable way of controlling BG gain.
Dreamlitz: I don't think EX Black Propaganda (or Forseti for that matter) is mandatory for the team's survivability.
That's what I used to think, too. I ignored BP 'cos I had Joan tank OD back then and had Sol heal when dmg cut was on CD (didn't and still don't have Athena unfortunately.) Then I fought fire ult without BP, and it raged, and it OD literally every single turn if you don't bring BP... I don't think even Athena can keep up with that. If you can wanpan it, no big deal, otherwise, BP is sort of required for certain fights, or at least makes them much easier.
Belobog providing -35% Attack Down
You mean Belobog with sniper shot right? Belobog is A frame 15% atk down. Forseti also has A frame 15% atk down btw if you lvl her to 65+.
Also, Athena, Diana and Hercules can buff their own defenses, so the lack of a group Defense buff is not a major drawback.
Are you referring to my comment about Kubera? Her def buff is 40%, which if that's the only defensive measure in play, is roughly equivalent to 30% dmg cut. Athena's dmg cut is only 25% for comparison. Anyway, if I didn't emphasize strongly enough in my last post, Kubera's strong point is targeted 2/10T nullify, which is extremely rare - like both the targeted part AND the 2T part is extremely rare. It is enormously useful on someone like Athena who has a multi-turn cover, which is also very rare. Those two skills combined basically creates a Gaia AW level of defense. If you can flat out nullify the dmg, you dun need heal, and if you can drag things out with something like BP so that the OD comes slightly frequently so that Athena's dmg cut or Kubera's def up are off CD, you're easily mitigating far more dmg than it is possible for even Sol AW to keep up with.
If you think Athena + Kubera is defense overkill, but Athena + Belobog is not defense overkill, then I would have to disagree. I haven't tried her, but I'm pretty sure Athena is not invincible, and my experience is that dmg mitigation is generally better than heal, which is why I value Kubera even higher than Belobog. Belobog's other utility skills aren't that unique and can be covered in other ways if really needed.
It is worth noting that sometimes it is even advisable to run Cassiopeia's skillset over Andromeda's. You get slightly weaker healing and Defense buff, and in turn get access to her Chaos Magic without using a valuable EX slot.
Ok, maybe we do agree afterall.
Resuscitation is not as overpowered as it may seem at first glance.
Correct, unless you go full defense with 50% atk down and barrier/dmg cut/whatever against things that aren't nuclear grade attacks. Here is an example of it working (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZHqdMVs1xE&list=PLxDNmcXdTx1Q00I2r_rO9IQNErdpgQvIS&index=2&t=0s): the fun starts around 5:30 when I made a stupid mistake and lost a hime a lot earlier than planned. It's a pretty niche skill though I have to agree.
If he has Hercules unlocked, I'd still go Belobog.
I also stated Belobog obsoletes 2 of his himes (Sukunahikona and Metis), whereas Forseti brings only skills his current himes are lacking.
Ok, I am not going to say that Belobog is a bad pick, 'cos in some situations she is indeed very useful and she is very beginner friendly (Forseti admittedly requires a little planning 'cos the 10T CD on BP can mess you up.) I do take issue with the reasoning though:
1. By the time you unlock Hercules and get her axe MLB, you are extremely unlikely to find Belobog's 300 regen on 4/8 CD to be meaningful. You either go full glass canon or you go with Andromeda if you need heal (or you pull a SSR healer.)
2a. Belobog in no way obsoletes Sukunahikona, just as Andromeda in no way obsoletes Hercules. Sukunahikona's heal is sort of bonus, it's better to think of her as an attacker. She has all sorts of quirks with the HP consumption and atk down on burst, but that's what you get for SR - the devs purposely add some weird stuff so that they're weaker than SSRs. If you don't need an attacker in your line-up, then sure, drop Sukunahikona, I don't like her much either tbh.
2b. I don't like Metis either, so I won't bother defending her, although I will say that affliction block in general > cleanse 'cos ability seal and paralysis can hit your cleanser, so Belobog doesn't exactly obsoletes Metis either.
3. Forseti brings RARE skills - as I said, only Raphy AW has BP in light. There is a reason why Mordred is commonly recommended to be unlocked early for beginners, and it's not because of outrage or VoF. To be clear, if someone has Raphy already or has both A and B frame debufffs covered, I would not recommend Forseti either (if you later draw himes that cover all of those, dun kill me, I can only advise based on what we currently know...)
Made some elaboration on the Fire team and about souls choice. Also made a Miracle Ticket tierlist for Fire, and it is interesting to observe that, after Nik's suggestion, I looked up Mihr and she rose as one of the top picks! Will make MT suggestions for the other elements soon enough.
Dreamlitz, thank you for your input. Indeed Forseti is bound to be a top pick for most Light players.
I saw your video of taking Reiki (Water Guild Order) down without a single SSR Kamihime, which was awesome and proved Resuscitation's worth. But I myself had built a Wind team with SSR El and no sub himes before: the idea was to keep El alive with as low HP as possible, to both guarantee the party will attack twice and that El would hit like a truck (by effect of Pride Weapons and Fleurety's effect). Whenever El died, I'd bring her up again ASAP as I had no subs! Between Resuscitation, El's Fortitude ability and lots of healing, the task wasn't that hard. The true epiphany though was you pointing out Maat's 3-buff Dispel, as I never paid much attention to her. Subscribed to your channel.
DJL556
08-15-2019, 08:24 PM
Wow...thanks for all the input. I’ll need to go back and reread for sure. I feel like a doofus because I just realized I need to use soul points to unlock the right souls to progress there...lotta wasted exp. I’ve inefficiently farmed some materials to continue upgrading my team. I’m still not sure what having an all light weapon grid does for me, I have almost enough to cover if I wanted. I have three of the kinetic former Métis uses...could have been better? Sadly, overall weapon type/quality looks like it’ll hold me up for a while.
I dithered between Belabog and Forseti, went with the former...definitely not sure about it. I’ll check my “R” hime and see if I’ve got some worth putting on. I’ll swap Métis to sub, flip a coin for who stands next to Athena. Grinding Merlin and Van Helsing from the first group of souls...like I said, I’m slow. Looks like I need to focus more on the raids, too.
Is it worth continuing to spend MJ on the 10 chain Gatcha?
Is it worth continuing to spend MJ on the 10 chain Gatcha?
Do not play the Gacha blindly. I am hoarding Magic Jewels to spend them when a good Kamihime for a team is available. I mean, Gacha is gambling, but one should try and raise the odds whenever possible!
To me, as I got Hades, Pluto and Satan from Gacha, it means I will likely spend MJ whenever either Osiris or Dark Amaterasu show up in a Rate Up Gacha, for the team lacks a SSR healer.
Also got a nice Water team of Ryu-Oh, Snow Gabriel and Ea, so I am waiting for Cthulhu (am using Atalanta instead because she also got a rare C-Frame Defense debuff) or Nike Unleashed\Aphrodite to finally replace Andromeda for Hercules. Moreso Aphrodite as getting Nike will likely mean I'd have to sub Ryu-Oh and use EX Black Propaganda, or live with the fact 2 himes from my team are A-Frame defense debuffers...
Slashley
08-16-2019, 01:23 AM
Do not play the Gacha blindly. I am hoarding Magic Jewels to spend them when a good Kamihime for a team is available. I mean, Gacha is gambling, but one should try and raise the odds whenever possible!The problem with that is, on Nutaku "rate up" basically does nothing for Jewels. I thus wouldn't really recommend this.
To me, as I got Hades, Pluto and Satan from Gacha, it means I will likely spend MJ whenever either Osiris or Dark Amaterasu show up in a Rate Up Gacha, for the team lacks a SSR healer.The problem with this is, Dark Amaterasu is unlikely to never ever be available with Jewels again. Osiris as well, though it's not impossible.
Is it worth continuing to spend MJ on the 10 chain Gatcha?Well, you can only do two things with Jewels:
1. Expand your inventories
2. Get new Hime from Gacha
If you don't need more inventory space... go for it?
Slashley, I spent all 9000 MJ I got on this recent boob gacha, in the hopes of getting Nike, Leviathan or Dark Gaia. Also Dian Cecht wouldn't be bad as my first Thunder SSR.
Got the Wind Gaia instead, which was one of the Rated-Up girls.
I also played one Daily Selection some time ago who had both Aphrodite and El as Rate-Up girls. Spent 9000 MJ as well, got El instead of the one who I really wanted. So in my experience the Rate Up seems to up the chances to get the girl I want, but in the end of the day it is jst gambling, don't keep hopes too high.
At least Wind is looking solid now with Gaia, Set, Azazel an El.
dreamlitz
08-16-2019, 09:32 AM
Slashley, I spent all 9000 MJ I got on this recent boob gacha, in the hopes of getting Nike, Leviathan or Dark Gaia. Also Dian Cecht wouldn't be bad as my first Thunder SSR.
Got the Wind Gaia instead, which was one of the Rated-Up girls.
I also played one Daily Selection some time ago who had both Aphrodite and El as Rate-Up girls. Spent 9000 MJ as well, got El instead of the one who I really wanted. So in my experience the Rate Up seems to up the chances to get the girl I want, but in the end of the day it is jst gambling, don't keep hopes too high.
At least Wind is looking solid now with Gaia, Set, Azazel an El.
First, congrats on Gaia! AW her, she is awesome! And you have Azazel, too, so your wind team will be super strong in like a month or so when Azazel AW comes.
Second, pulling an SSR consistently with just 3x10 pulls is actually somewhat lucky, and having it land on a rate-up girl is very lucky. As a counter data point, when I pulled for Lugh, I did 10x10 pulls (30k jewels) and did not get a single SSR, like not even a gacha eidolon or weapon dup. When I pulled for Iris with jewels, I didn't get her either. I forgot what my stash was, but it was well in excess of 20k jewels. I ended up pulling her with star coins and it took me a lot more than 3x10 pulls even with star coins... So, I wanted to emphasize this part:
don't keep hopes too high.
I felt even happier when I made Gaia participate in the Icarus GO with your strategy: a Wind team with lot of Damage cuts, barriers, healing, Wind Resistance Up from Fire Eidolons (used Nova Kaiser Dragoon, Resheph and Ignited Dragoon, in order to always have the Resistance Up).
And yeah, emphasis on "don't keep hopes too high". Between first getting Set until finishing the team with Gaia, building the wind team took me the better part of one year. As anedoctal reference, I started during the Tartarus Raid Event in which Set was released. Got her in the "New Character Boosted Gacha" back then, but can't remember how many MJ I spent. I can recalll I had the 6000 MJ each new player get.
The team came together while I was trying to build Water or Dark, feeling unlucky each time I got a Wind SSR instead: got El when I wanted Aphrodite; Then got Azazel randomly and initially felt I was unlucky, as I regarded her as kinda dumb - no buffs, debuffs, straight aggro, she is no Hastur or Cybele. I often used Oberon or other lower-rarity himes over Azazel; And finally I got Wind Gaia when I kinda wanted someone else, but she was indeed a nice pull.
So I didn't really feel lucky, for all this time of playing KP I got way too many of the dreaded 9R+1SR Gacha Pulls (some of them when Cthulhu was the Rate Up girl) so yeah, just take it easy, play with whatever Gacha gives you, don't keep hopes too high.
Improvise, Adapt, Overcome!
DJL556
08-21-2019, 04:21 PM
I got a wire crossed somewhere, I think. I’ve been working to break limit and generally plus up my light team...I’m in a weird place though where content is either doable or waaaaaay undoable (solo). Some of that is survivability - I can hang in until the big hits and the the overmatch is enough to kill me 3 times over. Some of that is damage. Team “Thunder Scrub” (my 1x SSR, 2x SR Thunder team w/ minimal limit breaks) already hits waaaaay harder than my significantly higher level Light team.
Tips on plusing up damage regardless of team element?
Slashley
08-21-2019, 04:48 PM
Tips on plusing up damage regardless of team element?The most important thing for damage output is your Grid. Do you have 9 SR Assault weapons in there, or better? All at skill level 20? If not, start working on Standard and Expert Disasters for the SR Assault weapon, and remember to roll the 15 Gem Gachas every day for fodder to level up.
Once that's done, the second most important thing is debuffs. If you can reach -50% Def, that's literally double damage right there. Chances are that you'll reach 30-40% though, but it's still extremely notable.
Do what Slashley said.
Sanahtlig states that 40k Attack (that big red number on the top left of the main page screen) and a full grid with around Skill LV 14 (opposed to all the way up to 20) Assault weapons would suffice to take down Advent Ragnarok.
The faster way to build that grid would be killing the Expert Disaster 3 times per day, plus aiding at Ultimate Raids against Disasters. When team is strong enough to tackle Ultimate without support, do Ultimate Disaster 3 times per day instead, and aid at Ragnarok, for weapons with assault, Eidolons to sell for Orbs and some material for Soul Weapons.
Dreamlitz posted some vids of him taking down Guild Orders with teams around that level (40k Attack, dunno about his grids), but his approach is more defensive. After watching him taking down Icarus and Reiki, I realized a team could have two or more characters with the same buffs, depending on the content. For example, I managed to tackle Guild Order vs Icarus with both Cursed Chanting Chains and Wind R-tier Caspiel's Def Up (the 2 are A-Frame Defense Up), for the mission of having 3 R himes. The idea was to always have Defense Uo, cycling the two skills whenever the duration of one was over.
dreamlitz
08-22-2019, 09:18 AM
aid at Ragnarok, for weapons with assault, Eidolons to sell for Orbs and some material for Soul Weapons.
Fyi, rags dun drop weapons except the very occasional phantom weapon, which you generally don't want to fodder until you have MLB-ed yours. They don't drop eidolons either. They can drop gem fragments and regalias but is not a good source of them. Do rags when you want magna or you want to try your luck at getting a phantom weapon.
Dreamlitz posted some vids of him taking down Guild Orders with teams around that level (40k Attack, dunno about his grids)
I always show my hime/weapon/eidolon grids at the beginning of my videos if you're curious. You can generally assume that all my weapons are SL20 or SL30 if it's FLB. You can infer the LB from it stats, but I usually only use MLB weapons unless it's a hime weapon. I have used weapons as low as SL13 for some of my GO videos, but usually there's only one weapon not at max SL, so I don't even bother footnoting it.
After watching him taking down Icarus and Reiki, I realized a team could have two or more characters with the same buffs, depending on the content. For example, I managed to tackle Guild Order vs Icarus with both Cursed Chanting Chains and Wind R-tier Caspiel's Def Up (the 2 are A-Frame Defense Up), for the mission of having 3 R himes. The idea was to always have Defense Uo, cycling the two skills whenever the duration of one was over.
Actually, I usually try to have all himes/souls cover different frames. Sometimes I can't 'cos I don't have the right himes or some mission restrictions etc. It's only then that I stagger buffs that cover the same frame. Mathematically speaking, it's more optimal to have multiple frames stack when you burst/fire all your nukes (for atk buffs) or tank an OD (for def buffs) than to have the same frame up at all times, but we use what we have, so it's good to know what to do when you don't have the perfect setup.
Thanks for the interest in my videos btw. Maybe I will try to do that Mordred run on an alt account tonight if I have time.
EDIT:
The faster way to build that grid would be killing the Expert Disaster 3 times per day
I forgot to mention, both my data and the data collected by another experienced player I know both suggest that standard raids actually drop SR weapons MORE frequently than experts, so if you're looking for fodder, you should prioritize standard over expert (it's cheaper and faster, too.)
Fyi, rags dun drop weapons except the very occasional phantom weapon, which you generally don't want to fodder until you have MLB-ed yours. They don't drop eidolons either. They can drop gem fragments and regalias but is not a good source of them. Do rags when you want magna or you want to try your luck at getting a phantom weapon.
I believe that by the time he can kill Ultimates without support, the player will likely have a full grid anyways. So working towards unlocking Soul Weapons seems like the natural evolution of Disaster Farming.
Didn't know Standard Raid was more efficient for weapon farming. Is it the case for Eidolon drops as well? But it seems to me Ultimate drops only Assault weapons, whereas the lesser Raids can drop Defenders as well.
Actually, I usually try to have all himes/souls cover different frames. Sometimes I can't 'cos I don't have the right himes or some mission restrictions etc. It's only then that I stagger buffs that cover the same frame. Mathematically speaking, it's more optimal to have multiple frames stack when you burst/fire all your nukes (for atk buffs) or tank an OD (for def buffs) than to have the same frame up at all times, but we use what we have, so it's good to know what to do when you don't have the perfect setup.
I try to have all the frames covered as well. I just was inspired to come up with more defensive approaches after seeing your take on Guild Orders. You used, for example, 2 Ignited Dragoons and a Nova Kaiser Dragoon against Icarus, in order to always have Wind Resistance Up. Inspired by that, I came up with the strategy of always having Defense Up, as it would mean less resources spent (2 hime slots against 3 Eidolons slots. The Eidolons could be better stat sticks, for example).
Raising Defense right before an Overdrive is coming seemed risky, Icarus seems to nuke out of nowhere sometimes.
dreamlitz
08-22-2019, 03:52 PM
I believe that by the time he can kill Ultimates without support, the player will likely have a full grid anyways. So working towards unlocking Soul Weapons seems like the natural evolution of Disaster Farming.
Oh I see, I thought you're telling him to farm rags for fodder.
Didn't know Standard Raid was more efficient for weapon farming. Is it the case for Eidolon drops as well?
My data suggests that is the case for eidolons as well, but the difference wasn't big enough to be statistically significant. I'm not sure if the other player I mentioned collected stats on eidolons as well.
If you're curious, I went and dug up the stats I collected:
251 standard raids dropped 30 eidolons (~12% drop rate) and 53 weapons (~21% drop rate)
83 expert raids dropped 7 eidolons (~8% drop rate) and 8 weapons (~10% drop rate)
All raids done solo with no snatch, no Anzu/Sleipnir/Vlad and no drop rates up accessories. I'm actually a little skeptical that the standard-expert difference is that big, but I was just trying to answer for myself whether I should farm standard or expert, and that data was more than enough to convince me to just farm standard, so I stopped collecting additional data.
But it seems to me Ultimate drops only Assault weapons, whereas the lesser Raids can drop Defenders as well.
Correct, I used to tag every ult until I had full assault disaster grid. Once you have a full grid though, both assault and defender weapons are just fodder, so I actually just farm all 18 standard everyday and only farm the ults I need regalia for.
Btw, defender weapons aren't completely useless - they can be useful for those 'use X soul' GO missions where you do not have the correct weapon type for, and if your eidolon grid isn't packed with MLB event eidolons yet, your hp can sometimes use a boost from one or two defender weapons just so you can survive an OD - an extra few turns can more than offset the assault loss if you don't overdo it.
I try to have all the frames covered as well. I just was inspired to come up with more defensive approaches after seeing your take on Guild Orders. You used, for example, 2 Ignited Dragoons and a Nova Kaiser Dragoon against Icarus, in order to always have Wind Resistance Up. Inspired by that, I came up with the strategy of always having Defense Up, as it would mean less resources spent (2 hime slots against 3 Eidolons slots. The Eidolons could be better stat sticks, for example).
Yes, having those LB0 dragoons really tanked my stats. However, resistance, dmg cut and reflect stacks additively, such that you can theoretically hit 100% dmg immunity. Defense formula otoh is a quotient, so you can never achieve 100% dmg immunity - 100% def actually only mitigates 50% of dmg on its own. If you only need to mitigate around 20%-ish of dmg, def up works well enough. If you need higher levels though, resistance/dmg cut/reflect is usually the only viable way to do it.
Btw, you have pointed out a common problem with builds that can achieve very high dmg resistance - it sacrifices a lot of power, so things take forever to clear. If you don't need that level of defenses, it is indeed much better to devote less resources to it to improve your overall power level. Extreme turtling is really more for ppl really determined to clear content that is supposedly beyond their power level (or in my case, I just like the challenge...) Normal ppl do more normal things like just stacking def up as you mentioned without resorting to R and SR eidolons =)
A lot of my GO videos purposely use strategies that are uncommon just to spark ppl's imagination. I'm actually really glad that ppl like you are trying to take what you saw and adapt it in different ways, 'cos that's exactly what I hoped ppl would do. When you come up with something that I haven't thought of I hope you'll share it, too =)
Raising Defense right before an Overdrive is coming seemed risky, Icarus seems to nuke out of nowhere sometimes.
Actually, Icarus is pretty predictable. Go to the first post of the GO Megathread (https://harem-battle.club/kamihime-project/4701-guild-megathread.html) and click on the pastebin links Cobblemaniac provided us - it lists all the triggers of all waves. For Icarus, she'll AoE as long as she is not scorched (her AoE is supposed to scorch her, but sometimes it misses, so she'll AoE again right away - once she scorches herself though, she is completely predictable.)
Edited first post with elaborations on Fire, Water, Wind and Thunder, along with miracle tickets suggestions for those. Figured out that "Which hime should I pick?" would be the most common reply to this kind of thread.
Will finish Dark and Light sooner than later.
DJL556
08-26-2019, 07:11 PM
Is it important to element match weapons in grid? I was able to grab and start LBing some weapons, but I’m split between elements. I’m running Mordred just because I don’t have a light staff or lance...my swords suck, but at least I have a couple. Really, I’d like to put Belabog on the Sub and run l healer and maybe get Hermès or someone in (or Fodla...Thunder, but super useful it seems).
I’ll keep leveling the weapons too...didn’t appreciate how much of a difference that makes.
dreamlitz
08-26-2019, 07:40 PM
Is it important to element match weapons in grid? I was able to grab and start LBing some weapons, but I’m split between elements. I’m running Mordred just because I don’t have a light staff or lance...my swords suck, but at least I have a couple. Really, I’d like to put Belabog on the Sub and run l healer and maybe get Hermès or someone in (or Fodla...Thunder, but super useful it seems).
I’ll keep leveling the weapons too...didn’t appreciate how much of a difference that makes.
Yes, it is important. Ideally you should run mono-element weapons grid and himes, the reason is that weapon skills only apply to himes/soul of matching element (e.g. your light staff or lance weapon skills will help Belobog but not Fodla.)
Btw, it's best to ask these questions in general Q&A.
Felix suggested using off-element himes, namely Brynhildr or Nike for healing, but that was back in March 2017. Nowadays, there are healers for every element and every rarity. Buffs and debuffs don't seem to be evenly distributed though, but one should try and make only mono-element teams. So, I wouldn't run Fodla as an healer in a Light team - but she is great for Thunder!
I second Dreamlitz's suggestion of using the Q&A thread for these questions. That thread is more active than this one, so a reply will come quicker.
Also, I am mostly interested in having a SR tierlist, so replies that contribute towards that (such as Nik bringing up Mihr for Fire or Dreamlitz building not one but three Light teams) are greatly appreciated. It will be useful not only for Miracle Tickets, but also for whenever a SR is available in a Rate-Up Gacha or when I need to build SR-only teams for some events.
One quick note: Slashley stated that Dark Amaterasu is unlikely to ever be available with MJ. But Fire Sol is in a Gacha Campaign right now! I will keep hoarding MJ until around the New Year's festivities. Maybe Dark Amaterasu will show up by then, so my motivation is renewed!
Concluded the first post, adding suggestions for Dark and Light.
dreamlitz
09-04-2019, 11:00 AM
Sati is not a priority either, because she is suggested mainly for her Light Resistance Down, but the easily obtainable R-tier (Lunar Glory) Caspiel can enable a team to reach the Defense Down cap.
Sorry, didn't get a chance to read the update until now (only read the light section, 'cos well, that's what I know best.)
I want to point out that Sati is much more than a debuffer - against dark enemies, she can hit harder than a SSR - that critical buff is guaranteed and lasts 5T, so as long as you time your abilities well, you can get a lot out of her. SR burst multiplier is also higher than R, so it's generally better to use the higher rarity himes if you have a choice (I use Caspiel mainly for those use 3 R GO missions and R-only event missions.) I won't mtix her before Diana either, but just want to point out that she's very strong in the right situation.
Sati would make the cut in a SR team. It is just that Diana, Forseti and Djehuti are more prioritary than Sati IMHO, when we talk about spending a SR MT.
Since the last reply to this thread, the following SR himes were released:
FIRE: (Wisp of Affection) Ereshkigal; (Meltdown Summoner) Durga; Amane Suou
WATER: Sachi Komine
WIND: (Mikoshi Gale) Susanoo; Gefjon
THUNDER: Jiutian Xuannu
LIGHT: Skirnir
DARK: (Devs hate Dark) Givup
Only Sachi Komine and Amane Suou from Grisaia collab, and Fire Durga, seem worthy of consideration. Sachi has an aggressive skillset and is another "Venus" for a SR Water team with her 5%+ HP Assist, and Amane Suou seems to be a better Argos for Fire.
Actually, I want to ellaborate on Fire a bit more:
In this thread (https://harem-battle.club/kamihime-project/5127-guide-disaster-raids-players.html), Slashley sums up Disaster Raids strategies for newer players. As the Wind Ultimate is highly debuff resistant, it is stated a Fire team would fare better if relied more on buffs rather than debuffs.
So, there are a few himes that are better suited for the task of killing Wind Ultimates than the debuffers (namely Hephaestus, Kishar and Konohana-Sakuya, as the Atk & Def Down won't stick reliably). Brynhildr will bring healing, Attack Up and Combo Rate Up, and Argos (or Amane Suou) will mitigate a lot of damage. The Wind Ultimate will buff itself with Combo Rate Up, which means a lot of reflected damage when Taunted & Intercepted. And Fire Durga could bring group Atk & Def Up all by herself.
So, a team built specifically to deal with Wind Ultimates:
Any Soul (I prefer Hercules with Cursed Chanting Chains)
Agni
Mihr
Brynhildr
Argos
Amane Suou (to substitute the first girl to die, bringing more damage mitigation)
(Princess of Hellflame) Eligos (for her 5% HP Assist and even more damage mitigation if another girl dies)
Now I am trying to figure out a reliable Light SR team for Dark Ultimate (good luck with that XD)
Since the last reply to this thread, the following SR himes were released:
FIRE: (Wisp of Affection) Ereshkigal; (Meltdown Summoner) Durga; Amane Suou
WATER: Sachi Komine
WIND: (Mikoshi Gale) Susanoo; Gefjon
THUNDER: Jiutian Xuannu
LIGHT: Skirnir
DARK: (Devs hate Dark) Givup
Only Sachi Komine and Amane Suou from Grisaia collab, and Fire Durga, seem worthy of consideration. Sachi has an aggressive skillset and is another "Venus" for a SR Water team with her 5%+ HP Assist, and Amane Suou seems to be a better Argos for Fire.
Actually, I want to ellaborate on Fire a bit more:
In this thread (https://harem-battle.club/kamihime-project/5127-guide-disaster-raids-players.html), Slashley sums up Disaster Raids strategies for newer players. As the Wind Ultimate is highly debuff resistant, it is stated a Fire team would fare better if relied more on buffs rather than debuffs.
So, there are a few himes that are better suited for the task of killing Wind Ultimates than the debuffers (namely Hephaestus, Kishar and Konohana-Sakuya, as the Atk & Def Down won't stick reliably). Brynhildr will bring healing, Attack Up and Combo Rate Up, and Argos (or Amane Suou) will mitigate a lot of damage. The Wind Ultimate will buff itself with Combo Rate Up, which means a lot of reflected damage when Taunted & Intercepted. And Fire Durga could bring group Atk & Def Up all by herself.
So, a team built specifically to deal with Wind Ultimates:
Any Soul (I prefer Hercules with Cursed Chanting Chains)
Agni
Mihr
Brynhildr
Argos
Amane Suou (to substitute the first girl to die, bringing more damage mitigation)
(Princess of Hellflame) Eligos (for her 5% HP Assist and even more damage mitigation if another girl dies)
Now I am trying to figure out a reliable Light SR team for Dark Ultimate (good luck with that XD)
Think dark ult is hopeless till its nerfed
dreamlitz
10-25-2019, 09:55 AM
Think dark ult is hopeless till its nerfed
Actually, I'm pretty sure I saw a video of a light SR team AAB clear DUlt at some point. I think it was Andro, Demeter, Attar, Belobog and I forgot who the last hime was. It was with a 200% ascension grid though, so if you missed all the past light UEs and not farming Hagiths 24/7, it might be hard to replicate (although honestly, if you can build a 200% ascension grid without resorting to using a lot of SR/R weapons, you're probably strong enough to clear it normally :sweat:)
Actually, I'm pretty sure I saw a video of a light SR team AAB clear DUlt at some point. I think it was Andro, Demeter, Attar, Belobog and I forgot who the last hime was. It was with a 200% ascension grid though, so if you missed all the past light UEs and not farming Hagiths 24/7, it might be hard to replicate (although honestly, if you can build a 200% ascension grid without resorting to using a lot of SR/R weapons, you're probably strong enough to clear it normally :sweat:)
I think the problem with Dark Ultimate is that it demands an entirely different approach for Light teams. For example, most players would advise going with Michael, Lugh, Shingen, and try and burst as often as possible. If a team with such a setup can't kill the Disaster fast enough, the DOT will slaughter such strategy.
Slashley said he only managed to AAB it after 2 years of play, with Andromeda, Sol and lots of Ascension. In other words, even a veteran would need to build a Light team with another approach if intending to kill Disasters reliably.
The Dark Ultimate is strong against a lot of common tools: Atk Down and Intercepts mean nothing, as the thing will use status effects more often than using a physical attack; I don't care about her Overdrives too much, so Black Propaganda doesn't seem that necessary; she applies 2 buffs to herself, so the Chaos Magic isn't as impactful. All her attacks are AoE, so Cover does nothing.
In the end, a team of five healers indeed seems to be the approach for dealing with that creature.
dreamlitz
10-25-2019, 02:43 PM
Actually, if we're allowed to use SSRs, Mike AW and Sol AW are the ones you want, and you don't need as much ascension as you think. Sol's burst effect and Mike's dark resist buff helps prevent a lot of debuffs from sticking. I AAB-ed it back when I only had 74% ascension (I also had a 5% heal acc on Sol I think), no personal fluffy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arG2OmqZ5Ac
Replicating that with SR with so little ascension will be tough though.
RNGesus didn't give me a single Thunder SSR, so I'm rolling with a SR Team. I can clear Water Ultimate Disaster solo, do AQ 6 and collaborate in Ragnarok Disasters with the following team:
Mordred with Blade Eliminator and EX Ambush
(Thunder Spirit) Nyarlathotep (Xmas Limited Edition - got her last year with MJ)
Ramiel
Fodla
Chou'un (Sei) (From Koihime Collaboration)
Gryla and Cyclops as subs.
Against Water Disasters, I use Black Propaganda and Fodla's orb eat to control her Overdrives. Then use the dispel effect added to Outrage by the Soul Weapon. Full Burst BEFORE she rages, to avoid her barrier.
For AQ, I guess the other SWeapon, Clarent, would fare better (adds gauge reduction to Outrage) as the boss can't be dispelled, but I don't feel like investing on the weapon.
Anyway, I noticed Ramiel's group buff became B-Frame, which for me is a buff for her. Now she won't contradict with Avalon's Guidance, Cursed Chanting Chains and, in my particular case, Nyarlathotep´s Caprice Arousal.
1 - Since the last update to this thread, the following SR himes were released:
FIRE: (Teaser of Light) Ithaqua
WATER: Janus; (Rippling Voice) Ramiel
WIND: (Moderate Bear) Volos; (Echoing Wind) Cyclops
THUNDER: Ilmarinen
LIGHT: (Dawn of Guidance) Ratri
DARK: (Princess of Blasphemy)Dagon; Moros
Out of those additions, I think the most noteworthy himes are Water Ramiel and Ilmarinen.
Water Ramiel is the only Atk Up A-Frame SR Water has, plus she can apply Dizzy... So cool!
Thunder got another reinforcement these last weeks besides an ill-needed debuffer (Ilmarinen). Ramiel's Atk & Def Up became B-Frame instead of A-Frame. In the post above I elaborated why this is a big deal for SR Thunder teams.
Light Ratri also seems good, but nobody got her anyway =P Joking aside, I am reluctant to sub Diana (who also got Def Down A-Frame) for her, but then again Light got other good himes to provide the Attack Up Diana has (Uzume and Uranus).
As I think the trade-offs are quite negligible, ended up editing the first post suggesting two teams for SR Light - one for who prefers Diana, another for Ratri players (if there is anyone who pulled her that is).
2 - I realized I dismissed Dark Diana too quickly, as she does not have A-Frame Defense debuff (it is the Light one that does). Also, Tsukuyomi got buffed, not Blinding the allies anymore. Thus, Dark players could favor running any of Diana, Moros, Paimon, Beelzebud or Tsukuyomi as the Attack buffer of choice. Ended up prefering Diana for she also heals and is less high-risk than Beelzebud. Also, as she fills 2 roles (buffer and healer), I had more space for fitting in Cernunnos in the team.
I overlooked Cernunnos when I first built the Dark SR team, so made comments on first post about her. Basically, as her Defense Up stacks up, the team's survivability for longer content is greater than relying on suicidal Buer's Potions.
3 - Also, Epic Raids were released, so now every new player will eventually get these himes:
FIRE: Amon
WATER: Nike; Gabriel
WIND: Cybele; Heimdallr
THUNDER: Baal; Tezcatlipoca
DARK: Ereshkigal; Pale Rider; Balor; Rangda.
Just wanted to point out DARK players will have a full SR team right off the bat.
Five months without updating this thread! A lot of things happened, so let's discuss those changes.
1 - Well, since the last update to this thread, the following SR himes were released:
FIRE: Leto
WATER: Malik; (Sternous Bow) Attar
WIND: (Blissing Fragrance) Anahit; (Venomous Princess) Meretseger; (Brilliant Wind) Satan; Ninlil; (Flower Wind Ceremony) Phoibe
THUNDER: (Lightning Meister) Boreas
LIGHT: (Advancing Girl) Tyr; (Shining Bride) Luna
DARK: Sobek; Idun; (Midnight Rush) Sequana
The Water Attar got Attack Down C-Frame and Revival, which is a regeneration that stacks with the proper Regeneration buff (for example, Revival would be applied alongside Orlean's Call), so she would be a good fit for a defense team;
Wind Phoibe can apply Vigor to the party;
Idun can apply Defense Down C-Frame and Damage Cut. So good for a free hime.
I don't feel any of these other himes are noteworthy.
2 - Some more Epic Quests were added. As of now the following raid himes are readily available:
WATER: Gabriel; Phoebe
WIND: Heimdarll; Krampus; (Paradise Wind) Yamaraja
THUNDER: (Thunder Bottle Ship) Asherah; Psyche; Tezcatlipoca
LIGHT: (Snow White Princess) Amaterasu; Uzume; Attar
DARK: Balor; Rangda; Pale Rider
3 - The following himes were added to Gem Gacha: Brynhildr; Belphegor; Hermes; Ramiel; Artemis; Beelzebud.
Made some adjustments to miracle tickets suggestions and team compositions in first post, taking the revamped gacha and epic quests in regard.
Ogawa
06-17-2020, 09:38 AM
These are my favorites in order from most to least useful in each element (imo). This is only based on characters I actually have. There are definitely SRs which are good that I didn't include,...
Thanks for your input. I'd like to comment on some of the himes you mentioned:
Sytry and Hebe are ok, but not as good as the above two.
I actually like Hebe, she helped me clear some Guild Orders before I got a full SSR team. Played turtle back then.
Cyclops: Her kit is not that impressive, but she causes your entire team to have their HP boosted iirc, and that works even from the backrow. That means she is useful at any point in the game no matter how many SSRs you have, in theory. The best thing in her actual kit is a decent attack down debuff.
I think I didn't sell Cyclops well enough in my original post. She can be an healer of sorts, specially if team's HP is low. The Regen is capped at 750HP in 2 turns (1500HP healed in total), but Zeal subtracts a percentage of max HP (5% each turn). The heals plus Attack Down give the team more survivability, while the Zeal makes the team burst faster. To top it off, she has a quite rare (for Thunder) cleanse. Then take into account most SR Thunder aren't really team players, but more like "lone wolves". Cyclops is a good pick for she is one of the few team players.
Fodla: This is a surprisingly versatile character that can fill different roles depending on what you need. She is probably slightly better in the backline, where she can heal your team and possibly delay enemy burst attacks. But in the front she can inflict thunder resist down, which is a lot like having an extra defense debuffer, except arguably better much of the time as it stacks with defense debuffs (and you're less likely to have thunder res down). Overall Fodla is pretty solid, but as a jack of all trades she unfortunately can't make use of all her potential at once.
I like Fodla on back row. Frontline Fodla is a glass cannon (Thunder Resist Down, some self-buffs, but Self Defense Down), backline Fodla is a nice reliable support (heals, eats orbs, has Self Evasion Up, making her a bit more survivable).
Buer: To me, this is one of the most busted characters in the game period, even better than many SSRs. This may sound like hyperbole, but Buer can do something which (afaik) few to no other characters can do. Specifically, she can pop out potions. Popping out potions isn't free. It consumes a chunk of her health, and if you want to pop them out faster, it consumes even more health. However, as a general rule in a longer battle you will get 1-3 free potions, and the rest of the potions she makes you will have to use to heal her own HP. However, the 1-3 free pots alone makes it worth bringing her along at times. What makes potions good is that they aren't as limited as other healing skills, which tend to heal for relatively little, especially if they're SR heals. Potions on the other hand easily heal most of your health back up. But as if this wasn't enough, Buer ALSO happens to have a group AOE heal, which has a short CD that she can reduce even further by sacrificing her own HP, something few other healers can do. If she only had the group AOE heal, I would already include her on a list of best SRs just because of that. However, the combination of being able to make potions and heal your entire team really solidifies her as one of the best SRs in the whole game (imo).
Generally speaking, it's better if she isn't the one being targeted, but if she is, you can use the potions you generate to heal her, in which case she helped to mitigate damage for your team for free, similar to a tank. Either she's mitigating damage for your team by being targeted and healing herself, as well as pumping out occasional aoe heals, or she heals somebody else who gets targeted. One way or another, she adds a lot of sustain to a team.
I haven't tried her yet in labyrinth, but if she works like all other characters (CD refreshed for each new battle), she is going to be insanely broken. Starting at floor 1 you will be able to generate dozens of potions at no cost whatsoever.
I used to like Buer that much, but then I met Cernunnos (and got Osiris for some heals...). Cernunnos is the one thing that lets me survive Light Catastrophes and Hagith. Stackable Def Up, Damage Cut, Guards and heals herself.
Jessa
06-21-2020, 02:04 AM
I haven't tried her yet in labyrinth, but if she works like all other characters (CD refreshed for each new battle), she is going to be insanely broken. Starting at floor 1 you will be able to generate dozens of potions at no cost whatsoever.
I've played first lab with her, and sure, her CD resets and she helped me to get really high back then with my p weak and off-element team (light team with Buer in last place against what it was back then, wind?)
Ogawa
06-22-2020, 07:22 AM
Yeah those are good points.
I included Hebe in that list (as opposed to many wind srs I excluded) as I do think she has some use. I actually used her for the same purpose at one point. However, I feel like the others I listed are better personally, but I could see a reason to include Hebe. You really sold Cyclops to me lol. I think you're right and her kit is maybe better than I stated. I'm less certain on the zeal heal only because I haven't probed into the numbers too much. Is there a point where she can drain more HP due to % dpt than she heals with a flat number? At some point I wonder if you need ascension in your grid to offset % dpt. But anyways, I had already said she was among the best thunder srs, though now I would add that under certain circumstances the cleanse and added gauge/regen can be quite nice. My problem with cleansing ability is that it is situational compared to some other sorts of utility (e.g. debuffs, raw damage, healing, all of which tend to have more universal usage). However, when you do need it, it's really nice to have, and cyclops being one of the few characters to pack it does give her an added niche. She already fills several niches anyways, so it's not like she needs the cleanse to be good regardless. tl;dr I would agree with everything you wrote above.
Buer I just think is sooooo good, and after hearing what Jessa wrote above, I think that even more. If nothing else (excluding all other content), you could use her in practically any labyrinth event for infinite pot works. I think the next one is going to be for dark characters anyways, making her doubly good. I actually picked up Cernunnos just a couple days ago, and I'd agree she is pretty nice (as would be any character with a damage cut; I favor that utility a lot). I kinda dislike the conditional burst use for her damage cut ability, but I would agree that just having such utility probably makes her one of the best dark srs. I also value ability to tank hits for the team, hence my placement of Kishar and Yamaraja, and since Cernunnos can do that too, it also makes her a good candidate for a main unit.
The way I rank SRs is kind of with the assumption that somebody literally has 0 SSRs in any given element, so characters with debuffs tend to be given priority. But if you have SSRs that can fill the same role as an SR (e.g. if you have an SSR with a 20% C frame defense debuff and an SR with a 15% C frame debuff), certain SRs can fall into relative disuse, and other SRs with more niche utility (e.g. Hebe with her stackable defense buff) could be a bit better. As I've acquired more SSRs I've noticed I don't use certain SRs as much which I used to like a lot more in the past. But I would still say those SRs are very good.
powersurge
07-09-2020, 09:45 AM
dark forseti seems pretty damn good for a limited sr she has a ability that gives 1+ orb to enemy, a stackable attack down and a stackable affliction rate up on the same ability that is also aoe and a stackable combo attack rate down abilty
dark forseti seems pretty damn good for a limited sr she has a ability that gives 1+ orb to enemy, a stackable attack down and a stackable affliction rate up on the same ability that is also aoe and a stackable combo attack rate down abilty
Got her this Sunday. Yeah her kit is very good. I believe that having Forseti and Cernunnos will give the team very high survivability.
Definitively a good inclusion.
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