Thread: Problem with event girls

Originally Posted by Tristelune

Thanks for your argumented post, Soviras. It's refreshing after Tanny's whining and sarcasm. Yet, I disagree with most of your points.

First, I didn't say that the game was reasonbly balanced. Heck, if the devs do a rebalance, it's exactly because they think it's not balanced enough.

Second, you failed to catch my argument. I didn't defend the idea that "people who don't like the system can't handle bad luck" and I don't know where you got this ridiculous idea. That doesn't even make sense! So, please be kind enough to highlight the sentences that made you feel as such
What I opposed to Tanny is that in a game of luck, no matter how good are the odds, you always have a chance to lose. Because luck. To put it another way: "people who can't handle bad luck shouldn't play game of chance".
Do I really have to go as far as to quote myself here?



Now, about the points you raise:

Your first point: I didn't attack Tanny on false assumptions about his age. Nor I treated him like a child because he disagreed with me. That would be stupid. For what I know, he might be older than me. What I highlight though is his obvious lack of maturity and childish behaviour. Hence the way I adressed him as a child in my late post.
Being sarcastic and/or offensive in most his post certainly don't pose him as a paragon of maturity and wisdom.
Again, do I have to quote?


I won't bother quoting the rest, it's all in the same spirit...
So, I don't know how you call it, but by my dictionnary, acting like he does just because he was unlucky: this is childish behaviour.

Your second point: why would I look at tower and contest to make an assumption on the amount of people that didn't drop any event girl? Please... That would be so stupid...
I simply calculated it using the best approximations and educated guesses we have.
Let me explain:
1) first we can assume Tanny is a dedicated player and he did an average of 50 battle per day (of course, maybe he did more). If he tried less, i'm of the opinion that he can only blame himself for not having tried enough. In any case, let's take our typical dedicated player that does 50 fight per day
2) we know that the event was 14 days
3) we know that the drop rate for event girl is x3
4) also, I know that the best guesses made by tens of players for about a year put the drop rate between 0.1 and 0.3%. My personal opinion lean toward 0.2%, which happen to be right in the middle.
=> that gives you 1.48% chance not to drop any event girl for the event duration. Pretty close to the 1.5% i mentionned, isn't it?
So, of course, we don't know the actual drop rate, but if you have better estimation, please let me know, i'll sincerely appreciate. Also, you can argue with the model I used but it's the best without knowing the drop rate. And for some reason, i'm fairly confident that my 1.48% is close enough to the real %.
Also, I'd like to add that, aside Tanny, I know of 3 dedicated players that didn't get any of the two droppable event girl. None of them made a ruckus like he did. They just soaked it up. I didn't see any other people voicing their frustration the way Tanny did on any of the forums or discords.

Your third point: well, you should update your informations. Because there ARE reasons to believe it's due soon. The beta started a bit more than a month now. Obviously the release of the rebalance is imminent, as Jessie hinted in her post above. I'd bet that it will be released before the next event

Your fourth point: I deliberately took a comparison that was of a very different magnitude. It's almost impossible NOT TO roll at least one 6 over a hundred die toss. Yet it's possible. The underlying point that I tried to make Tanny realize is that when you play a game of luck, no matter how good the odds, there is always a chance for you to lose. And only fools fails to acknowledge this truth.
In fact, it was not a comparison, it was an exaggerated situation to stress my point.

Your fifth point: I commend your knowledge of Buddhism (I didn't know of the origin text). But then I refer to your fourth point: the (not so) hidden truth under my tossing die was not that there is about 17% to roll a 6 (which is the understanding that Tanny had), but the fact that in game of luck, you can fail however high are your chances. By your definition, he failed to grasp the hidden truth, didn't he?
Maybe more importantly, we live in a world where there are more and more of these people who want everything right away and don't accept when something doesn't go their way. They then start whining and can't cope with what life give them.
As a person knowledgable in Buddhism, you probably know as well as I do (or even better) what buddhism has to say and teach to these people.

TL/DR: In a game of chance, one always has a chance to lose. Whining, crying, being sarcastic and offensive because one cannot cope with this reality is a sure sign of immaturity.

To conclude: I think Tanny should have kept his calm, voiced his opinion in a respectful way and maybe made a suggestion or 2 on how the devs could make the game better in regard of this matter (like Sniddy did few posts above).

Sorry for the long post.

First point, I did not say you attacked him based on false assumptions about his age, but rather that you attacked him based on false assumptions (caused by you misreading what he writes) AND treated him like a child. It isn't immature to complain about something, complaining is human nature, especially when something is unfairly balanced. He did not throw a tantrum, he did not demand he received it, he merely complained. If you treat someone like a kid, then that can't be seen as anything else other than an attempt to weaken their position by acting like they aren't able to understand things or by acting like they are too young for something, which is exactly what you did.

Second point, 50 fights a day is quite a lot and would require someone to play and not miss any fights for almost 17 hours a day. The players who do that are few and far in between even on the forums. I used information from the tower and contests to determine who is active and who gets what amount of girls, and seeing anyone go above 30 fights per day is rare (average is 10), and that still requires you to play the game at any time you're not at work or sleeping to the point that you don't waste time by letting the energy bar stay full... An event should never be balanced around the more dedicated players, let alone the obsessively playing ones (myself included, as I'm at 60+ per day unless my internet drops), but rather give the average player a reasonable chance at at least 1 of the event girls, while the more dedicated players should have a reasonable chance at both. The reason I take the tower and contests as a guideline is because it is representative of the active players.

Third point, the beta might be happening, but that doesn't mean it will actually be releasing anytime soon. Jessie has said it would be "soon", "very soon" or similar for months, and there have been cases of betas taking months or even years (especially with smaller development teams like this game has, and this team doesn't exactly have a reasonable pace of fixing even simple bugs caused by typos). Until they are willing to give a date, there isn't really any indication of the release time other than the eternal "soon" that we have had for a long time now, because for all we know they might be spending another 3 months fixing major issues within the beta.

Fourth point, an exaggeration doesn't stress a point, it's something that often detracts from the point you are trying to make. Even if you didn't intend for it to be a comparison, it was one. You put two situations side by side, which had some similarities to them, and created a comparison between them by essentially saying "it is possible that A can happen, so B can happen too". You took the situation with the drops, and compared it to the exaggerated situation with the dice to try and make your point. If a point can't stand without an exaggeration, the point itself is too weak to stand. A hyperbole can have it's purpose, especially within a story, but within a discussion it weakens the point unless it's very carefully used and fits within context. Comparing a reasonable chance to something almost impossible only harms the point because you change the context due to the order of magnitude being too different.

Fifth point, Tanny understood the point you were trying to make, but pointed out that your comparison was bad. You can only point out that a comparison is bad when you understand the idea behind it, because else you would be unable to notice the flaw. Hence, he did not miss the point. However, you missed the point of his objection, and assumed that he failed to understand solely based on him rejecting your comparison, rather than seeing the reason he rejected it within his words. His words may be crude at times, but they do show his intent.

Finally, Buddhism has a lot to teach everyone who is willing to listen, but it also accepts that most will not attempt to reach enlightenment and it teaches us that we are not to force others to do so. Extinguishing all Raga (desire) is part of the path to enlightenment, but so is extinguishing Dvesha (aversion), and not accepting people because of their own Raga is a form of Dvesha. People start their journey because of Raga, because it is the desire to improve oneself that drives one down the path, and thus Raga is not an inherently bad thing but merely something that one must overcome on their journey (just like Dvesha and Moha have their own role). "The path can not be walked when there is no Raga, but the Raga must be lost before you can reach the end". Simply put, Buddhism doesn't have anything to say or teach to people who desire things to be handed to them or who desire to change their past luck that it doesn't have to say or teach to everyone else. (Ps. The translations aren't the best, but there isn't a single english word that encompasses the full meaning of some words.)

Hey, all!

I would like to start with...
The team has been reading your comments and your dedication amazed everyone.

We want to clear out few things with you on this topic.

1. Each member has his own strong points towards our game. We respect them. Even if they are really negative. If everybody loved Harem Heroes, means something is really wrong.
2. We couldn't make it to here if it wasn't for you. We are really thankful.
3. We've been working for months and months on rebalancing and it's almost done.
   *By almost done, I mean it will be out in weeks. The date will be introduced soon, here.
4. We do our best to answer your desires and create the best version of Harem Heroes, possible.
5. Although we do improvements in all ways we can, please don't forget that girls are one of the most interesting parts of Harem Heroes, it's not fair to get them within 10 fights, this means that your interest will be gone as soon as the fights are over. It sure also doesn't mean, you have to fight 500+times for a girl - we are improving that. There will be a perfect balance.
6. We wish that there are no hard feelings here, no fights and no bad words.
7. Last, not least - more information on what you can expect from our rebalance will be posted here within days. I can assure you, something big will happen.

Building the bridge between community and game creators is something that can be considered as the ''tricky part''. The one in place, that should represent community needs to the game creators can do either really good job or burn the bridge.
Kinkoids have no bridge. Not because it's burned, but it was never ever built. The team is here each and every day reading and analysing, so be sure that issues in the game, that cause a lot troubles are being care taken.

I really hope that no one has hard feelings here since we are all gathered by the amazing power of Hentai. Tune-up your radios, because big news are comming within days...

Have a kinky day!



Jessie Chan
Kinkoids Support

Is that announcing a date for the start of the beta test within a few weeks, or has the beta test been going on and you'll be announcing a date for the changes to go live? Haven't seen a word about that since the confirmation email, and it's really unclear whether that means that names haven't been drawn and it hasn't started... or it did start and my name just wasn't drawn for the test group. Those possibilities seem equally likely, to be perfectly honest.

Originally Posted by DrQuatsch

Off course you can always suggest some changes, but in my eyes the changes you suggested will just transform the game into every other game on nutaku. There are enough of those games out there already.

Funny. I first heard of and came to Nutaku for the adult version of Crush Crush (which is now a moot point since they launched the adult patch for the Steam version), then I tried out almost every game here... And I've only kept coming back to Nutaku for Harem Heroes. Couldn't be bothered with the others. But I think I was describing an idea that would make Harem Heroes more interesting and more engaging. Plus I tried to suggest something that wouldn't upset the balance of what's already in place too much. It would be an optional extra path to getting things unlocked (plus being a bonus reward system after the unlocks, although to be fair they might need some new ideas for things to collect in the game to really make that seem worthwhile (which they might be doing anyway, right? I know I've seen mention of updated gearing and higher rarity levels for gear at least)) but obviously they wouldn't scale it to be overpowered compared to an average case of how long it might take to get a girl to drop from pure RNG.

I know it's all kind of futile to be tossing out ideas this close to whatever major rebalance they've been working on anyway though. Whatever they intend to push out with this upcoming update has likely already been mostly set in stone for a while now, and they'll probably want to listen to feedback about that new version of the game before considering ideas for other future changes.

The Beta test itself started a while ago, so I think we can safely assume Jessie was talking about the changes going live
Apart from that, we should all just keep on making suggestions to improve the game.
We want this to be the best game ever, now don't we?