Thread: Kamihime General Discussion + Q&A

Originally Posted by Jessa

If I nave an advent's mats' leftovers, will I be able to use them when (if) the advent gets reprinted?

I'm like 99% sure that they do roll over.

Originally Posted by Jessa

If I nave an advent's mats' leftovers, will I be able to use them when (if) the advent gets reprinted?

Yes. I farmed Vritra so much that when it came out again, I bought everything from the shop and was done with everything instantly.
(Except daily Rag farm for Advent Cores.)

And obligatory reminder to leave yourself with FLB materials for any and all weapons that need it. That's easy to forget, and you'll be sorry if you ever need to FLB it later!

Originally Posted by Dejnov

And Dark is getting great Himes this year also... Nefertem, DTake, DSvarog...

Maybe in the future Dark's Hime quality will rise, yes. But that's in the future, and not in the now. Especially on Nutaku where Jewel Rate Up is a lie and you cannot get those new Hime until from future Miracle Tickets... yeah, that's not particularly viable. Also, other elements get the very same Hime powercreep, soooo...?

Originally Posted by Dejnov

I think you're totally wrong on the ability for dark to be able to be a strong viable team.

I didn't say that Dark is "unable" to be a strong viable team?
Can Dark clear all content? Yes, just look at Ebisu. This madman probably hosts and clears probably 18 Disaster Rags and 18 Guardians every single day, all with his Dark Ascle team. I don't know if he even bothers to change the lineup.
But is a Dark team - literally any Dark team! - able to race with a meta Thunder or meta Light team? No. There is no hope of that. And as such, in a game that literally ONLY rewards the person who did the most damage, that by default means that Dark sucks, no? Sucking is different from being viable.

Personally, since I don't do selfish teams the whole raid award system is very frustrating, and I can't wait until freaking purple chest update. Give me my share of the loot for healing those selfish teams, thank you very much.

Originally Posted by Dejnov

I disagree with defender being needed in a grid anymore. You're better off getting Vigor and/or Ascension (especially Ascension). Your bang for buck is just better with Ascension than Defender.

And I strongly disagree with your disagreeing. If you don't have the HP to survive a hit, Ascension doesn't do anything for you. If you don't have a healer, Ascension does nothing for you.

The prior can be fixed by damage cuts - this much is true. However, that requires you to manual. Which, hey, power to you if you bother to manual everything just because you literally have to. But you can also just stack the fuck up on HP, and currently no content will really threaten you with a big enough HP pool. That's something that might change with the next tier of raids (I hear something like 6 people in it max?), but for now, there's really no need to go through extra effort for the same effect.

Originally Posted by Dejnov

You're not paying attention to the whole ensemble. You keep only focusing on the portions you like as opposed to the tools you can utilize. Let's just use Cernunnos, Andro on the team, and One On-Element 0LB Kaiser. Andro's Cursed Canting Chains gives 20% Defense 3/6T and Cerunnos can build to 40% Defense constant. that is 60%/40% 3/6T. This works out to damage cuts of 37.5%/28.5% constant damage cut for this team or 33% avg. damage cut. Cernunnos then gives 30% 1/5T or 6% average damage cut. An On Element Kaiser gives 20% 2/8T or 5% damage cut. Right now with all tools you have you're sporting 44% average damage cut.

Let's see here...
Andromeda 40% 3/6t = 20% Def (nobody runs Andro without her Staff)
Cern = 40% Def (I mean let's just ignore that it takes 20 turns to get there, but fair enough)
60% Def is 37.5% less damage taken indeed.

Cern 30% per 5t = 6% damage cut
Kaiser 30% per 2/8t = 7.5% damage cut (you used SR Kaiser value with SSR Kaiser uptime)
13.5% less damage taken.

Total damage reduction (0.625*0.865) = 0.540625 = 46% less damage taken.
You reached 44% with a fair bit lower values, not exactly sure how you mathed that out. But reminder that you cannot just add up Def and damage cuts - they MUST be multiplied.

Originally Posted by Dejnov

You now need to estimate the amount of damage cut that is coming from Andro's Heal. I like to assume 4k damage per round per Hime (fair and reasonable approximation for near endgame content) which means that you're taking 2.24k per round. Andro can heal 1.6k/5T or 320HP per round. That is base 8% damage cut or (after other sources of damage cut) equivalent to an additional 14.3% damage cut. This team currently runs 58.7% damage cut.

No.

Heals are not damage cut. Absolutely no. That's not how damage cut works. What you might be calculating is something like survival ability, but this is no longer a matter of "damage cut" anymore at all and this math goes straight into the trash bin.

It does explain your very bloated numbers. I will admit that Cern Def buff is much better than what I thought - as long as we ignore that you need 20 turns to get there. I'd much rather get my 40% Def from Accessories though, and not waste a slot on a SR unless I absolutely had to.

Originally Posted by Dejnov

You could also run more Kaisers (5% avg.) and/or Dragoons (7.5% avg. MLB) as needed to up your defenses.

I mean, you can, but I reaaaaalllly don't think you should even consider it. I know that dreamlitz went and used 4 separate SSR Kaisers. Which is like... jesus christ, I guess if you really, really, REALLY want to turtle then fine, but... for fucks sake combine those. That's a 3180/885 stat Eidolon split into multiple 1633/445 Eidolons. Which is a truly awful idea for everything except specifically turtling.

Power to him if he actually enjoys that style of play, but geez. Let's not recommend others do the same, okay.

Originally Posted by Dejnov

Relying on Nefertem as a core meta Hime is something ALL elements do once you're aiming for META. This is not a counterpoint against utilizing an effective damage cut team as your core build.

There is a difference, and this difference is availability.
Neferfem has been in zero (0) Miracle Tickets.
Cores for other elements have been in multiple, with the exception of Thunder Aphro who has been in one (1).

And, this is assuming that people are willing to spend 50 bucks on a Miracle Ticket, or multiple MTs even. If you don't do that, your chances of obtaining new hotness from the gacha is even worse. Speaking of which, I am extremely jealous of how you apparently just casually have easy access to literally everything, from Thunder Samael to Nefertem.

Originally Posted by Dejnov

And your claim that damage reduction doesn't add offense is invalidated by Vigor. Teams with 50+% damage cut can keep Vigor up for a really long time (usually the full battle). That's additional assault/damage that non-damage cuts can't do. Having Cernunnos means she doesn't do as much damage as an SSR, but she does allow all other SSRs in your team to utilize Vigor for far longer than without.

See, here is the problem with this yet again.

How?

How do they have this Vigor?

You always keep ignoring this very, very, VERY vital question. You keep touting how a Cern damage cut team is going to have such AMAAAAZING damage output BECAUSE of Vigor, but you never, ever go into HOW one gets this Vigor. I guess you did say something in the next post, but we'll get there soon enough.

Originally Posted by Dejnov

Being able to clear difficult content is an important aspect of Kamihime. Utilizing a damage cut team allows you to do that with sub-par grids and eidolons. Once you're able to clear higher content I don't think you actually have to switch the gameplay format to only assault/defense. Adding additional Ascension and Vigor helps that team clear faster.

The point I've been trying to get across is that this is a paradox.

You're saying that:
#1 one should utilize a damage cut team as a stop-gap until one gets stronger
#2 this team should use Ascension and Vigor to keep up with teams that are stronger
But... you keep ignoring the fact that the availability of #2 is so poor that by the time one MIGHT have this, they're already strong enough that #1 no longer holds true. Because the player has already progressed to the phase where they can just AAB everything with an easily available Assault/Defender Grid.

In fantasy lalaland where one can just snap their fingers and find themselves with a Shingen/Nefertem/Cern team and a Assault/Ascencion/Vigor Grid, yeah, it could work. But in cold, harsh reality, that's just not how it works.

Originally Posted by Dejnov

But I don't see any reason to trade Ascension or Vigor for Defense. That doesn't help you 'kill it before it kills you' either.

?
Yes it does? I mean, just double your HP and you "before it kills you" part is doubled. With 10k base HP, many of my teams run 20k to 25k HP. Because Assault/Defender are just that readily available, particularly for Dark (or rather, were. Sorry new players!).

Meanwhile, doubling the first part ("kill it before") with Vigor is no simple task (if even possible?). And, if you intend to AAB, suddenly you lose all of it - especially if you've dropped Defender, one AoE Overdrive and suddenly you find yourself with a huge portion of your Grid not doing anything. This can, of course, be mitigated by manualing and utilizing damage cuts and heals, but the question is... why should you bother when an easier path exists?

And that is, yet again, my huge beef with Vigor. Is it an amazing stat for some content (read: Skill Checker-kun, Tower)? Yes, yes it is. Is it something you should give two shits about in content that you need to run literally thousands of times? No.

Originally Posted by Dejnov

-- Also, I don't believe they (damage cut teams) are hard/impossible to create for most elements. --

I mean, they're not hard to create... ... as long as you entirely ignore the availability of the very crux of every team: the goddamn Grid.

Yet again, how is a player going to build an Assault/Ascension/Vigor Grid that the damage cut team so heavily relies upon? As you've said yourself, one needs Vigor to make up for the loss of damage output from sub-par damage output Hime. And you need Ascension or Vigor will just fail you. So yet again, how? Because it sure as hell isn't this:

Originally Posted by Dejnov

3 Berith Guns (Assault/Defender/Exceed) or 2 Berith Guns and Labyrinth Axe (Assault/Exceed)
2 Guardian Guns (Pride/Defender/Assault)
Phantom Gun
3 DSvarog Axes (Assault/Defender/Vigor)

YEAH, NO. ABSOLUTELY NO. YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS.

Seriously dude, come on. Relying on finding 2-3 Hime weapons of a single specific Hime? Relying to find 3 copies of a single specific Hime that isn't even out yet?!? Are you insane?!? Does the very concept of availability entirely elude you?!?!??! Jesus fucking christ, that seems to be a running theme here.

And on a side note I am very jealous of your Marduk Hammers.

Thanks for the confirmation, guys, that's nice! And yes, I'm always farm up a bit more of mats for weps' FLBing.

What are the recommendations for building rainbows teams (for leveling/snatching)?

Originally Posted by Jessa

What are the recommendations for building rainbows teams (for leveling/snatching)?

It doesn't need to be a rainbow team. Just six Hime with all Accessory slots opened up and 5% Drop+ on each Hime. Which is a lot easier when you make a rainbow.

Then just run Solomon(/Medea) and kill everything with just your Soul.

Wtf?
This stupid game talking something in runes, a-la run other browser, i assume. Seriously, if they'll fore me from absolutely fine chromium to some shit, i'll consider sropping it. So, does anyone knows what exactly it says?

Originally Posted by Jessa

Wtf?
This stupid game talking something in runes, a-la run other browser, i assume. Seriously, if they'll fore me from absolutely fine chromium to some shit, i'll consider sropping it. So, does anyone knows what exactly it says?

Game has been in maintenance for like 12 hours now. They're clearly having issues.

And remember, they are working with a one-year old DMM client. Chrome has changed a lot over that time, specifically Google is trying to kill off stuff like Flash. A lot of our issues come from that, I assume.

Game was up for a some time, and, thing is, they added some stupid script which checks UA, and allows only wangblows/mac with chrome (didn't hecked out about phones, since don't use 'em). So, now we have to fake our UA at top of all other things. Surely, as you say, THANKS DEVS!

That being said, there is actually not just labyrinth, but also huge UI update, and seems like speed is better (as ppl say at least). So its more understandable why this maintenance takes so much time. But still, imo, unforgivable, wtf they've done before?! Or did they just slammed all the shit in single night?...

Also, i believe this game have nothing to do with flash, it's webgl. And yes, flash should die.

jessa yeah i noticed the speed difference i was loading into raids really quickly and being able to do lots of damage in seconds then maint happened and i was like NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO cause i was doing so beastly against bethor but f me right lmao
hope they fix this cause 10-12 hours of maint aint a joke and i wanna play me some labyrinth

IC, thanks for confirmation.