Thread: Kamihime General Discussion + Q&A

Ability damage up is pretty much useless for characters without multi-hit skills.

The stat difference in ATK between maxed SR and SSR accessories is about 600, or 1.5% of a character's total. Double ATK up has a 2% chance of adding an attack at max level (essentially a 2% damage increase). As you can see, 1 good skill can make a LV40 SR better than a LV50 SSR, and with a lot less investment.

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

Ability damage up is pretty much useless for characters without multi-hit skills.

The stat difference in ATK between maxed SR and SSR accessories is about 600, or 1.5% of a character's total. Double ATK up has a 2% chance of adding an attack at max level (essentially a 2% damage increase). As you can see, 1 good skill can make a LV40 SR better than a LV50 SSR, and with a lot less investment.

so you're saying i should give it to oberon and if i find SR accessory with good skill to give it to my SR kami? :O

If you don't mind paying the gem cost to take it off later in case you find a better accessory, then sure?

+ability damage really is bleh on single hit skills due to the way it works. You'd think that it'd be something like 'skill damage is increased by so and so percentage'. But that's not how it works! What it does is just add to the skill's multiplier per hit.

So, direct damage skills are basically of the form 1 hit at X power (or X range of power), or Y hits at X power (where power is what to multiply damage by). For example, let's say there's someone with a skill that does 1 hit at 2-3x power, as a well as a skill that does 4 hits at 0.7x power.
Now you throw in a +ability damage buff that's listed as +0.15. And add on an assist that gives +0.05, so there's a total of +0.2 ability damage.
Now the first skill becomes 1 hit at 2.2-3.2x power. The second skill becomes 4 hits at 0.9x power.
(I just described Artemis)

Back to accessories, it looks like the +ability damage effect found on accessories ranges from +0.03 to +0.05.

Lilim gula encounter-

Vulthoom:

Ithaqua:

Hastur:

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

Healing doesn't scale at all right now, so the Ascension skill must be the way of addressing that. Endurance builds will get a boost from this, but it's really far out. Worth noting for Endurance builds though.

Do they benefit from it? Because doesn't this Ascension only apply to same Element? And most Endurance builds run Sol, so you'd have to run one or two Light weapons...
Certainly a good thing if you run a full mono Endurance build. But reaching -50% is tough without Sol, as you're reliant on A, B and the very long CD Eidolon for it, and a single resist will fuck you over.

On a note for Light, Phoenix and Pride give you a Ascension effect (in level 150 SSRs), so if there's one in the store, that's three already. So Awakened Sol will be a healing BEAST in Light teams if you use all three.

Originally Posted by CaptainNoobCN

so..i got SSR wind accessory and 2 out of the 3 skills is ability damage up.

Sadly, as said by others, Ability Damage up is bloody useless.

I haven't fully researched it, but based on how JP wiki always has such an orgasm over multi-hit abilities, I'd assume it goes something like this.
Nemesis has 3.5x damage and 4x damage skills. If you give +50% Ability damage to her (which is a lot and only available from Titania), how much damage does she do? If you said 7.5*1.5x = 11.25x, sadly, wrong. It's 4x + 4.5x damage = 8.5x. Hardly even an increase (~13%).

On the other hand, you have Aisha with her 4*0.7x damage = 2.8x damage. If you give her +50%... then it's 4*1.2x = 4.8x damage! Almost doubled (~71%).

I think Wind only has Aisha and the far distant SSR Arianerod that have multi-attacks, and as such, you're probably better off using that PoS Accessory as enchant fodder.

Originally Posted by CaptainNoobCN

i've thought to give it to oberon as she have 3 abilities that deals damage, but is it a good idea to give it to SR kami?

Oberon has one job dude. ONE JOB. And that's debuffs.
Why not give her Affliction Up Accessories...?

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

-- The stat difference in ATK between maxed SR and SSR accessories is about 600, or 1.5% of a character's total. Double ATK up has a 2% chance of adding an attack at max level (essentially a 2% damage increase). As you can see, 1 good skill can make a LV40 SR better than a LV50 SSR, and with a lot less investment.

So Double Attack is the stat to go for for damage dealing Accessories? Would make sense, since I have great doubts about the usefulness of Atk+.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Back to accessories, it looks like the +ability damage effect found on accessories ranges from +0.03 to +0.05.

Accessory effects don't "range" - that's 3% below max level and 5% at max level. So easy to reach on Rs, somewhat difficult to reach on SRs, and a pain in the ass to reach in SSRs.

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

The stat difference in ATK between maxed SR and SSR accessories is about 600, or 1.5% of a character's total. Double ATK up has a 2% chance of adding an attack at max level (essentially a 2% damage increase). As you can see, 1 good skill can make a LV40 SR better than a LV50 SSR, and with a lot less investment.

Considering a 2% Double attack up as a 2% damage increase is unrealistic. Base stats will improve damage from every source (Autos, Ability, Burst) while double attack up will only increase damage coming from auto attacks. Even by equipping it to a Kami with no damage dealing abilities, you would need less than 25% of your damage coming from Burst for double attack to be better, and your burst does more than that. Not to mention, you get less HP too.

Originally Posted by Slashley

Do they benefit from it? Because doesn't this Ascension only apply to same Element? And most Endurance builds run Sol, so you'd have to run one or two Light weapons...
Certainly a good thing if you run a full mono Endurance build. But reaching -50% is tough without Sol, as you're reliant on A, B and the very long CD Eidolon for it, and a single resist will fuck you over.

On a note for Light, Phoenix and Pride give you a Ascension effect (in level 150 SSRs), so if there's one in the store, that's three already. So Awakened Sol will be a healing BEAST in Light teams if you use all three.Sadly, as said by others, Ability Damage up is bloody useless.

I haven't fully researched it, but based on how JP wiki always has such an orgasm over multi-hit abilities, I'd assume it goes something like this.
Nemesis has 3.5x damage and 4x damage skills. If you give +50% Ability damage to her (which is a lot and only available from Titania), how much damage does she do? If you said 7.5*1.5x = 11.25x, sadly, wrong. It's 4x + 4.5x damage = 8.5x. Hardly even an increase (~13%).

On the other hand, you have Aisha with her 4*0.7x damage = 2.8x damage. If you give her +50%... then it's 4*1.2x = 4.8x damage! Almost doubled (~71%).

I think Wind only has Aisha and the far distant SSR Arianerod that have multi-attacks, and as such, you're probably better off using that PoS Accessory as enchant fodder.Oberon has one job dude. ONE JOB. And that's debuffs.
Why not give her Affliction Up Accessories...?So Double Attack is the stat to go for for damage dealing Accessories? Would make sense, since I have great doubts about the usefulness of Atk+.Accessory effects don't "range" - that's 3% below max level and 5% at max level. So easy to reach on Rs, somewhat difficult to reach on SRs, and a pain in the ass to reach in SSRs.

and all i can think about is the 8hit combo from susanno with ability damage buffs and accesorry.

Originally Posted by LeCrestfallen

and all i can think about is the 8hit combo from susanno with ability damage buffs and accesorry.

Once Awakened (which isn't even that far off), I doubt she even needs it.

Her Awakening boosts her 8*0.5x damage to 8*0.9x damage, plus gives her 50% Ability damage (and 100% Assault). So after 8 turns, she's dealing 8*1.4x damage with an extra 100% Assault. She probably hits the cap of 8*88k fairly easily even without Accessories (every 5 turns). Of course, the downside of these self-buffers is that you constantly need to interrupt your auto-battle for them, which puts your debuffs at risk.

But if you're not going to Awaken Susanoo because of lack of Dragon Eyes, yes, +Ability Accessories might be valid on her. Same for Ares, Brahma and Artemis.

i will awaken her (should i decide to get her with the next ticket), cause she looks so fluffy and cuddly awakened.

Originally Posted by Sfay

Considering a 2% Double attack up as a 2% damage increase is unrealistic. Base stats will improve damage from every source (Autos, Ability, Burst) while double attack up will only increase damage coming from auto attacks. Even by equipping it to a Kami with no damage dealing abilities, you would need less than 25% of your damage coming from Burst for double attack to be better, and your burst does more than that. Not to mention, you get less HP too.

Double attack rate up increases Burst damage too, as it allows you to Burst more often. Double attack is particularly nice because you can stack it on frontliners and get the full effect. Of course, if your Soul is your bottleneck for Bursts this won't change that.

So how do accessory buffs stack up?

+ATK (+3% max) has a 0.45% return in damage for each additional 1% at 120% character ATK, or +1.35% damage for a max-level accessory. As a rule of thumb, take the nominal effect and divide by 2 for the true effect on damage.

Double attack (+2%) directly modifies normal attack damage and can modify Burst damage as well if it contributes to more frequent Bursts. As such, it's best used on frontliners. Using a build with Shiva where the damage breakdown for normal/skill/Burst damage was 51/20/29%, +Double attack adds 1-1.6% damage, depending on whether it's contributing to more frequent Bursts or not. That range will also fluctuate somewhat depending on skill damage contribution to overall damage. So on a bottleneck character, double ATK would be better, while on others +ATK might be better. As a rule of thumb, take the nominal effect and divide by 2 for the true effect on normal attack damage.

+Ability damage (+5%) is worse than +ATK unless the ability has a base modifier of < 3.7. If we're going to buff abilities and nothing else we want to see at least a 2x difference, so cut that to < 2. The ability should also do significantly more unbuffed total damage than a normal attack to be worth buffing; 4x would be a reasonable cutoff. Put these together and the ability needs at least 3 hits to benefit significantly from +Ability damage on accessories, with SR characters' weak damage skills disqualified pretty much by default. You could probably say that about +ability damage in general.

+Burst damage (+5%) is useless because, like +ability damage, it adds to a modifier that is already greater than 1. For SR+ kamihime, that's 3.5+, essentially nerfing the effect to the same as +ATK or less. Burst builds can expect even less return since they'll be using temporary buffs to raise that base modifier even higher. This stat exists to trick players who don't understand the damage formulas. As a general rule, take the nominal effect and divide by 5 to get the true effect.

+HP% (+3%) is straightforward. But you should already have +HP from Defender weapons, so the effect will be somewhat reduced. Only recommended for kamihime with low HP or frontliners. Otherwise use Defender weapons and eidolons to manipulate HP for your entire team at once.

+DEF (+3%) decreases damage by a little less than 3%. Use this to enhance survivability of vulnerable frontliners or essential characters, especially with low HP and no DEF bonuses. Use this over +HP% when possible since it benefits more from healing. Otherwise, the same caveats as +HP% apply.

+Affliction rate up (+2%) is the best effect for Single-element builds. You want this on any ATK or DEF debuffer whose abilities ever miss. Debuffs missing is the #1 reason for wipes in content you can usually clear, so less missing = fewer wipes. Since DEF down is directly linked to damage output, 2% less chance of missing > +2% damage, which makes +Affliction rate superior to even +ATK for damage when equipped on your debuffers, and since debuffs typically have a team-wide effect you can multiply that by 5!

Drop rate up is valuable for farming. Assuming you like farming efficiently, having these in your progression gear isn't a waste. Make sure you keep all Rs with this, as they're free to unequip.