Thread: Kamihime General Discussion + Q&A

Originally Posted by Slashley

Union events are miserable if you're not in a good Union.

If you're in a good Union, everyone works together to spend AP on farming Grails from Lilims (I'd say only farm Standard, it's roughly the same amount of Grails per AP for a fraction of the effort). This gets every 400 points to spend daily on buffs - usually double damage and double HP plus two other stats.

I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone address the fact that this piece of advice is garbage, and a lie.

Standard Lilim Costs 15AP
Expert Lilim Costs 25AP

Equal AP point is 75AP, which is 3 Expert and 5 Standard.

Standard has dropped between 1-3 Grails from what I have run. Expert has dropped 4-5 on every run I have done.

So when you do the math, Standard drops between 5-15, and Expert 12-15 for the same amount of AP. You have a much better average in Expert, making it the better one to run.

If AP weren't an issue (IE you are using HEs like crazy, or have unlimited AP) and your limiting factor was time, then standard would be the way to go, because it can be completed faster and therefore your GPM (Grails per Minute) would be higher.

Anyways...It always bugs me to see misinformation being thrown around as fact. Crunch the numbers and you can see Expert is better. However, if you're not strong enough for expert, then by all means run standard until you are.

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

Of course, if your Soul is your bottleneck for Bursts this won't change that.

That's the problem, the Soul is your Bottleneck the majority of the time. Apart from Arthur and Morgan which no one really uses (though we'll see Morgan after her future buff) , Souls don't have self burst gauge buffs, while it will be really standard for your first and sometimes second Kami slots to have one of any sort. Double attack buff is slightly better than Attack up as a buff, but I wouldn't rate an SR with DA buff higher than a SSR with bad buffs, assuming those are already leveled.



As for the Standard vs Expert Lilim comparison, they use to have a close Grail average drop, but it seems they changed the drop rates this event and Expert has indeed become reasonably better

Originally Posted by Slashley

Do they benefit from it? Because doesn't this Ascension only apply to same Element? And most Endurance builds run Sol, so you'd have to run one or two Light weapons...
Certainly a good thing if you run a full mono Endurance build. But reaching -50% is tough without Sol, as you're reliant on A, B and the very long CD Eidolon for it, and a single resist will fuck you over.

On a note for Light, Phoenix and Pride give you a Ascension effect (in level 150 SSRs), so if there's one in the store, that's three already. So Awakened Sol will be a healing BEAST in Light teams if you use all three.

Endurance builds will typically be running 2 healers or healer + Regen. Regen works based on the Ascension skill of the character receiving it. Ascension is always paired with another skill on weapons, so using a Light weapon would sacrifice damage. Whether that's acceptable is going to be situational. But by the time Ascension is stackable we'll be at 4 Miracle tickets, so veterans will have the option of replacing Sol or using her only sporadically. If you're running Mordred and affliction resist down accessories, ATK debuffs missing shouldn't be a huge issue.

Originally Posted by SlickFenix

I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone address the fact that this piece of advice is garbage, and a lie.

Standard Lilim Costs 15AP
Expert Lilim Costs 25AP

Equal AP point is 75AP, which is 3 Expert and 5 Standard.

Standard has dropped between 1-3 Grails from what I have run. Expert has dropped 4-5 on every run I have done.

So when you do the math, Standard drops between 5-15, and Expert 12-15 for the same amount of AP. You have a much better average in Expert, making it the better one to run.

If AP weren't an issue (IE you are using HEs like crazy, or have unlimited AP) and your limiting factor was time, then standard would be the way to go, because it can be completed faster and therefore your GPM (Grails per Minute) would be higher.

Anyways...It always bugs me to see misinformation being thrown around as fact. Crunch the numbers and you can see Expert is better. However, if you're not strong enough for expert, then by all means run standard until you are.

Yea expert seems to drop a guaranteed 5 grails when you MVP, every single time. I don't think I've seen less than 5 grails on it at all, in all my runs so far (except for possibly the cpl times I joined someone else's and maybe vice-mvp'ed and got 4.) However, I've never run a standard yet, so I didn't know whether to refute his info or not.

Last Union Event, it didn't seem to have the guaranteed 5 grails every expert, but in this one it does, which is nice because you're basically done with your grails quota simply running 3 exp lilims per day.

Originally Posted by SlickFenix

I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone address the fact that this piece of advice is garbage, and a lie.

--

Standard has dropped between 1-3 Grails from what I have run. Expert has dropped 4-5 on every run I have done.

So when you do the math, Standard drops between 5-15, and Expert 12-15 for the same amount of AP. You have a much better average in Expert, making it the better one to run.

--

Anyways...It always bugs me to see misinformation being thrown around as fact. Crunch the numbers and you can see Expert is better. However, if you're not strong enough for expert, then by all means run standard until you are.

The numbers I use is 1-3 for Standard, and 2-5 per Expert. So 2 average for Standard and 3.5 for Expert.

2 / 15 = 0.13 Grails/AP
3.5 / 25 = 0.14 Grails/AP (~8% increase over Standard)
(Or your assumption, 4.5 / 25 = 0.18 Grails/AP (~38% increase over Standard))

And thus, we can crunch the numbers and see that running Expert is a complete fucking waste of time. So right back at you, sir misinformation. I leave the burden of proof to you, prove that Expert can no longer drop 2-3 Grails and you'll be correct. It's not like I've done any since Pride's first run... which is what, five months ago? But nobody has corrected me on the forums, and to this day I see Union members cry in Discord about getting two Grails per Expert.

Though, Sfay and VeryVoodoo did just now say so, and they're saying specifically this event.

Originally Posted by Sfay

That's the problem, the Soul is your Bottleneck the majority of the time. Apart from Arthur and Morgan which no one really uses (though we'll see Morgan after her future buff) , Souls don't have self burst gauge buffs --

To be noted is that Mordred has combo+ passive, which is yet another good reason to use her.

Originally Posted by Slashley

To be noted is that Mordred has combo+ passive, which is yet another good reason to use her.

I also equip a weapon (Water SSR sword) on Mordred that adds Triple attack chance as a Burst effect. Once she Bursts, she's frequently not the bottleneck. Those with single-target Burst gauge buffs can also shift the bottleneck off the Soul.

I'm pretty sure Expert drops work like this now:

2 Grails for participating
+ 1 Grail for starting
+ 2 Grails for MVP and 1 Grail for vice-MVP

Therefore, it's impossible to get only 2 Grails from an Expert you started, even if you don't MVP nor vice-MVP (and most old players should be able to MVP easily and get 5 Grails anyways...)

Originally Posted by Sfay

I'm pretty sure Expert drops work like this now:

2 Grails for participating
+ 1 Grail for starting
+ 2 Grails for MVP and 1 Grail for vice-MVP

Therefore, it's impossible to get only 2 Grails from an Expert you started, even if you don't MVP nor vice-MVP (and most old players should be able to MVP easily and get 5 Grails anyways...)

I soloed two Expert Lilims, and both gave me five.

Too small of a sample size to say for sure, but it would be about freaking time they fixed that design oversight. I'll gladly take ~38% extra Grails any day.

I have a sample size of about ~40 experts run solo so far on this event, just on AAB. Every single one has dropped me 5 grails. I guess the other guy was angry you were giving info without actually testing it, cause you were wrong after all.

Originally Posted by VeryVoodoo

I guess the other guy was angry you were giving info without actually testing it, cause you were wrong after all.

Well if Nutaku just arbitrarily changes things without telling anyone, in principle everything we know about the game is potentially obsolete with each update.