Thread: Kamihime General Discussion + Q&A

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

You're going to have to explain how this would be the optimal route (least time/money investment) for a typical player. I've yet to see a good argument for it, especially if you only have SSRs for 1 or 2 elements.

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

But why do this when you can put in similar effort and make a team that can clear 5/6 elements instead of just one?


No, it's not. It's about making the best use of limited resources, including time. Just because a strategy works doesn't mean it's optimal.

Let me rephrase the question. Under what circumstances is it better to invest equally in teams for all 6 elements vs. investing primarily in one? And under what circumstances is it worse? In what timeframes?

Originally Posted by Sora

LOL

(w)ww.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro_PSGuMBUU
by nonsensei!
Well, in my opinion his damage is great *-*

I am a new player and my main team is Dark. My only SSR Hime at the moment is Dark Amaterasu and I will focus on this team at first.
Maybe a Veteran who has a complete SSR Grid for his main element would focus on other elements but how strong will be that team if he/she doesen't get the -50% Attack & Def with the other elements?
How much damage will his/her team make with just elemental advantaged in comparison to a team with complete Debuffs and maybe a Burst Build with Shingen?

Originally Posted by Slashley

Nobody said a thing about collecting weapons or Eidolons, though.

Well now I think that you're maybe just being willfully obtuse? Otherwise what's the extra effort that the mono-preachers are talking about other than collecting & mlb'ing wpns for every grid?

So on another topic:
Remember the ousei/vigorous weapon skill? Do more damage when your remaining % HP is higher? Apparently that's not added to assault (nor element, for that matter). It's a % bonus to damage (dunno how it'd interact with other otherBuffs type stuff). The large version at lv 20 is about +15.5% damage at full HP. The small version at lv 20 is about +8.5% damage at full HP.

Originally Posted by VeryVoodoo

-- Otherwise what's the extra effort that the mono-preachers are talking about other than collecting & mlb'ing wpns for every grid?

Didn't you answer that yourself?

Originally Posted by VeryVoodoo

-- Now gem'chaing to SL those wpns up is a different story and does take time, --

A "grid" is more than just a bundle of SSR and SR weapons. Gathering them up is not that hard, although raid events are a pain in the ass if you don't get lucky with Gacha. Thankfully, that's getting fixed the very next raid event.

Anyway.
The next step is leveling them up - and this is where the weeks and weeks of the extra hours comes into play.

I don't think Sanathlig said anything about you not gathering weapons. Let's take a step back.

This is what started this:

Originally Posted by Sora

-- and in a Thunder Team you need Sol because we don't have a SSR Thunder healer at the moment.

Originally Posted by VeryVoodoo

If you're new like that person is, then yea you'd probably need healing because your dmg is low to begin with. For ppl with grids, that's not really true. -- unless you're going in without ele adv or something (which is then more on you rather than a fault of the element).

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

You're going to have to explain how this would be the optimal route (least time/money investment) for a typical player. I've yet to see a good argument for it, especially if you only have SSRs for 1 or 2 elements.

As far as I can see, there wasn't anything about skipping events entirely at any point. That was just you shooting off a tangent into a random direction.

The point is, for those who don't want to spend a ridiculous amount of time on the game - not something I want to do, but hey? - they can focus on just one element and be able to use that on all or at least 5/6 elements. As far as time/effort goes, that's by far optimal, wouldn't you think? Of course, putting in six times the effort WILL make you more powerful. Although this gain is largely gimped by the fact that you're not going to have a proper team for these other five grids. Somebody who has collected all the Thunder SSRs event weapons is certainly NOT going to be able to clear Water Accessory T4 with just random SRs if the weapons are like slvl5 or 10...

And speaking of going off random tangents, god. I'm not going to untangle that mess you two made in that other topic... both you were going all over the place.

Originally Posted by Slashley

And speaking of going off random tangents, god. I'm not going to untangle that mess you two made in that other topic... both you were going all over the place.

To lewd! Be careful with those statements.

Why would anyone solo Ragnarok Raid battles? It's a waste of time. It's the sort of thing people do just to show they can. All that counts is being able to shave off enough HP to get the MVP. Doesn't take a perfect team with elemental advantage to do that. I've joined 2 Wind Disaster Ragnaroks with half-baked Water teams I slapped together (one where I used Mordred and mostly spammed debuffs that mostly missed) and got the MVP each time. And it's not like BP is a super-limited resource.

And in the end, when players are using 2 grids of equal strength (let's say both are maxed grids) the ones using fire against this current wind ragna, or w/e has ele adv over what they face will always out damage the ones using off-element.

Yes, if you put in 6x the effort and resources over the course of 1-2 years you'll do marginally more damage than those who put in 1x the effort and resources. Is that the point you're trying to make?

You do it because it lets you kill all the matching elements faster and easier.

You only need to farm for every element if your strategy relies on having teams for 6 elements that are endgame-ready. Take Guild Orders, for example. Let's assume your goal is to farm orihalcum for weapon final limit breaks. Sure, maybe you can farm more orihalcum per event. But because you run 6 teams, you NEED more orihalcum than someone who runs only 1-2. All you did was increase the speed of your treadmill. Same applies to Tower events. Union event rankings rely more on time commitment than anything else, and rewards follow the same pattern.

In any case, you ignored the specific questions I asked in favor of a sort of long diatribe. While it was interesting, my questions remain unanswered. I'm not even asking for justification at this point. Just answer the questions. We can work from there.

The difference between you and me is that I try to write for a general audience. The optimal solution for one player may be sub-optimal for another. I don't have the luxury of assuming that my audience exactly shares my conception of how much time and money one should sink into this game. Even when I don't agree with a certain perspective, I have to understand it to be able to provide a set of alternatives given different sets of premises--which is why we're having this discussion.

And now you're adding fuel to fire...

アアアもう知らないだから

Originally Posted by Slashley

Anyway.
The next step is leveling them up - and this is where the weeks and weeks of the extra hours comes into play.

I don't think Sanathlig said anything about you not gathering weapons. Let's take a step back.

Wait what? The most time intensive-thing about grids in general is mlb'ing all the related wpns from that event. Just collecting the mats to do so, to exchange for them should normally give you enough fodder to lvl them up or at least get them somewhat near the max. And with how frequent Union Events are now, all the excess fodder from that should top off w/e little remaining you may have left.

As for SL'ing, the main inconvenience with that is the way the current inventory system works. Hopefully a future auto-sell feature should make that less boring/cumbersome. However, normally any event gets you about 2 relevant wpns maybe (1 SSR and 1 SR). So over the course of an event and any down time after, you usually have 8-10 days to get just 2 wpns done. Again, there's two different mindsets at work here: 1) the lazy way, which is to avoid doing all this and maybe pack it all away for the future or the 2) the diligent way which is to finish work on them on that event. So of course, if you're trying to SL an entire grid at once, it will seem a daunting task, but hey, everyone's gotta start somewhere at some point right? Keep in mind you're the one who threw out the 16+ hrs a day number. That seems to imply to me that those who spend 3 hours a day wouldn't be able to do the same, which is not true, because there are ppl that keep up in grids doing just that by working on it the diligent way instead of the lazy way.

Originally Posted by Slashley

This is what started this:
As far as I can see, there wasn't anything about skipping events entirely at any point. That was just you shooting off a tangent into a random direction.

Random direction? Maybe the inferences in those posts aren't clear, so I can explain it to you. Someone said you need Sol as a healer for Thunder. What I posted was that if you have weak grids or are new to the game, then yes you'd need off-element healers since you can't kill stuff due to the lack of dmg. I then said if you have a good enough grid (i.e, like mine), you don't need an off-element healer like Sol, cause you can even kill even r4 acc quests because you can nuke them down to where it never gets drawn out with your ele adv + maxed grid (the ele adv being +45% extra dmg, and taking -25% reduced dmg if that's not clear).

Someone else then quoted me and said that's not optimal because what if you only have SSR himes in one element, and I replied that with a maxed grid and ele adv, you're able to do so even with a SR team. They then replied it's not optimal to do that for every element when you can do it for one. So you're saying the part they're saying is not optimal is not in fact having a max'ed grid? Because that's exactly what they're saying. Because it's surely not the ele adv part that they're claiming is not optimal/time-consuming, since that actually confers one of the most optimal strategies/benefits to clearing content in the game. So regardless of how you try to obfuscate the issue, the topic at hand comes back to grids.

Originally Posted by Slashley

The point is, for those who don't want to spend a ridiculous amount of time on the game - not something I want to do, but hey? - they can focus on just one element and be able to use that on all or at least 5/6 elements.

So once they focus on and finish max'ing that first element grid, you're saying the mono-preachers above are then saying you move on to max the next grid and so forth? Cause if that's what you say they're saying, then there's no problem at all, since that's what I completely agree with. However, with the way they're now saying you don't even need to farm Orihalcum for the grids of 5 elements when you can do it for just one, etc... it seems to suggest otherwise, and that they are in fact saying it's ok to focus on only 1 grid. So can you explain why a mono-preacher would even need to farm and mlb all the extra elements' wpns? Doesn't make sense then does it? Might as well ask why not only take part in events where your mono-focused setup had the adv, and skip the other 5 element events where you don't. You seem to be doing a lot of back-peddling for the mono-preachers that don't even care, or seem to not even agree with what you're telling me. They should nick-name you the damage control guy.

Anyway do you see why that's a dangerous method to try and follow, especially if you plan to play to late game content? Thankfully, most dedicated players already know the folly of this. However brand new players who might otherwise be dedicated enough to work on it properly to the end, might end up thinking it's ok to just do 1 grid and then stop. I even some veteran players that only focused on 1 element already having trouble with some of the current content in the game, simply because they're not able to whale all the needed SSRs to make that work for when they're off-element or when things like debuffs don't work, etc... Whereas they'd struggle a lot less if they had proper grids for other elements as well and then able to go in combined with the +45% ele adv dmg, and -25% reduced incoming dmg. Anyway you slice it or try to obfuscate it, if you're planning for long-term, only going with 1 grid/team and then stopping ends up crippling/handicapping yourself against those that will max all the elements.

You make a lot of assumptions. I'd stick to what people actually say and ask if you're unclear.

The most time intensive-thing about grids in general is mlb'ing all the related wpns from that event.

MLB'ing weapons doesn't take long. Maybe an hour for Advent and Union events? It's mostly just time going through the menus. Raid events are a pain, but they're about to become much less time-consuming. Honestly, I usually spend most of my gameplay time on Accessory Quests and related drudge work. Besides that? Just navigating the terrible interface.

Why would I farm weapons for elements I don't need? Just to keep my options open mostly. Also, most events give useful rewards besides the SSR weapons.

This is a gacha game, you never know what you'll get. So the most optimal route would be to level every element and get everything valuable event related. There are plenty of examples throughout the forum of people asking for help with their so called main teams only to find out their rosters contains units that would make a better team of another element and those people posting them drawing a SSR not of their main element.

There's also fact that the strengthening curve exists, as in it becomes much slower to get stronger the further you get into leveling your team's grid. Any high rank player can tell you how steep this curve is while trying to break that 50k power for a single element. Because of this curve, the amount of time and effort one could put into getting a single team to 50k atk, another player could probably make 6 different element teams of 35~40k.

Anon asking about Tyr here. I was just asking a question, why are people arguing? Are they always like this?