Thread: Kamihime General Discussion + Q&A

How much effort are you willing to put into Ults Waters?

Personally, I went for Mordred's Relic weapon. I... don't know is that the correct choice. On one hand, debuff- is crucial to extremely debuff intensive Water. For example, Cthulhu-Snow Raphael-SSR Nike means that you have -50% Def right there (or for me personally Ctulhu-Belphegor-Ryu-Oh). On the other hand, Mordred is no Hercules.

Mind you, Hercules has basically everything that you want in a Soul - she has Reflect which makes her extremely tanky (30% damage cut), combo+ which means that she's unlikely to ever be the bottleneck in your Full Bursts, she has a huge nuke AND she even debuffs Def Down thanks to Relic weapon.

Because of this, I am currently in the process of farming a second Water Relic weapon; Herc's Axe. It's just too good to pass up on, really. So if don't think that farming 240+ Water Regalia is for you, probably just go for Herc anyway. Keep in mind that turtling is probably the only way to clear AQ5 in ~5 months. Whales will tell you to go balls to the walls and just kill the damn boss before Overdrive, but time will tell if that's feasible or not for most players. But even turtling is hard, since in order to not get oneshot you'll need 95-100% damage cut every... five turns? Six turns? I forget. Anyway, Joan's HP weapon is probably your only way to double up on the amount of turns you have before you wipe.

tl;dr; I... don't think I have any solid advice for you. Sorry?


On a side note, after getting Mordred's Sword (which has -15% Rage cut), I have gone full retard on Rage cuts. My party of Mordred (EX Gil's Rage cut)-Cthulhu-Belphegor- Ryu-Oh -Sol has a freaking ~52% Rage cut. This lets me Full Burst EVERY Rage Bar in a single turn that I've found so far - including Sunday AQ4 Thunder boss!! Considering how Sol is in there, it's just... what?

Is going full retard on Rage cuts a good idea? Probably not. But I am amused. Also, it should be noted just how fucking broken Belphegor is. I pulled Asherat today, so I have ALL Water SSR Hime except the healers (SSR Nike and Aphrodite). And Ea. But nobody cares about Ea. Yet? SR Belphegor is in my party, and isn't going anywhere.

Originally Posted by Slashley

How much effort are you willing to put into Ults Waters?

Personally, I went for Mordred's Relic weapon. I... don't know is that the correct choice. On one hand, debuff- is crucial to extremely debuff intensive Water. For example, Cthulhu-Snow Raphael-SSR Nike means that you have -50% Def right there (or for me personally Ctulhu-Belphegor-Ryu-Oh). On the other hand, Mordred is no Hercules.

Mind you, Hercules has basically everything that you want in a Soul - she has Reflect which makes her extremely tanky (30% damage cut), combo+ which means that she's unlikely to ever be the bottleneck in your Full Bursts, she has a huge nuke AND she even debuffs Def Down thanks to Relic weapon.

Because of this, I am currently in the process of farming a second Water Relic weapon; Herc's Axe. It's just too good to pass up on, really. So if don't think that farming 240+ Water Regalia is for you, probably just go for Herc anyway. Keep in mind that turtling is probably the only way to clear AQ5 in ~5 months. Whales will tell you to go balls to the walls and just kill the damn boss before Overdrive, but time will tell if that's feasible or not for most players. But even turtling is hard, since in order to not get oneshot you'll need 95-100% damage cut every... five turns? Six turns? I forget. Anyway, Joan's HP weapon is probably your only way to double up on the amount of turns you have before you wipe.

tl;dr; I... don't think I have any solid advice for you. Sorry?


On a side note, after getting Mordred's Sword (which has -15% Rage cut), I have gone full retard on Rage cuts. My party of Mordred (EX Gil's Rage cut)-Cthulhu-Belphegor- Ryu-Oh -Sol has a freaking ~52% Rage cut. This lets me Full Burst EVERY Rage Bar in a single turn that I've found so far - including Sunday AQ4 Thunder boss!! Considering how Sol is in there, it's just... what?

Is going full retard on Rage cuts a good idea? Probably not. But I am amused. Also, it should be noted just how fucking broken Belphegor is. I pulled Asherat today, so I have ALL Water SSR Hime except the healers (SSR Nike and Aphrodite). And Ea. But nobody cares about Ea. Yet? SR Belphegor is in my party, and isn't going anywhere.

Having Asherat (I prefer this name actually lmao) makes me think that a Shingen relic build would actually be feasible...

How much effort would I put into water? Currently sitting at 79 regalia and 78 shards (20 5-shard regalia traded in already). Is that... enough effort?

The soul issue is one thing I never ever got my head around when it comes to water, which is why I still have a ridiculously hard time deciding the relic. Mordred is... never the answer for end game play, is what I've learnt from all my time in this forum. Still, it feels like if you main water, you're pretty much glued to Mord, or the only other option you have is to tough it out for 8 turns till you get your Sphinx active. It's awkward, to say the least.

I miss the days when debuff was a true meta...

You don't drop SSR Nike in a water team, you drop Sol and use another water hime. Unless you badly need Sol, she's not needed in your water party and only hurts your damage output, especially in a leveled team that is already using a strong healer. If you really think you might need her, then just keep her in your sub. Of the current content, the only one I could see her being needed is for soloing Fire Cata, which is not something you need to solo.

In the case your team can already reach def down cap without Herc's weapon and without Ambush. You can save for Shingen or just use anyone else. Just because the other souls don't excel at 'burst builds' doesn't mean they should be ignored, especially not if your team isn't build around burst builds to begin with. Going Shingen isn't going to make a major difference than just using any other soul with Provisional Forest as an ex skill because your burst rates will equally slow without the specific party related burst rate buff himes, which applies to your current teams.

Originally Posted by Aidoru

You don't drop SSR Nike in a water team, you drop Sol and use another water hime. Unless you badly need Sol, she's not needed in your water party and only hurts your damage output, especially in a leveled team that is already using a strong healer. If you really think you might need her, then just keep her in your sub. Of the current content, the only one I could see her being needed is for soloing Fire Cata, which is not something you need to solo.

In the case your team can already reach def down cap without Herc's weapon and without Ambush. You can save for Shingen or just use anyone else. Just because the other souls don't excel at 'burst builds' doesn't mean they should be ignored, especially not if your team isn't build around burst builds to begin with. Going Shingen isn't going to make a major difference than just using any other soul with Provisional Forest as an ex skill because your burst rates will equally slow without the specific party related burst rate buff himes, which applies to your current teams.

You literally posted one second after I did

Alright, here's the issue I see with dropping Sol in my team.

The point is that my team's damage output is... trash, since I'm hitting about as hard as my debuffs allow me to. Paraphrasing Bear, my damage has officially hit the debuff ceiling, and I don't have much to go for. But that's kinda the trap I have with my water set up, or what I feel in general about the water meta.

How would I change that? Water has like... 4 practical dps himes so far as I can tell. Asherah, Oceanus, Shiva, maybe Anahit. Ea, if you really want to force that in. Neptune, in the future, and she's not strictly a nuker I guess. Even if I sub in Oceanus or Ea for Sol, is the damage output increase significant enough for me to flat out murder enemies the way fire does with Uriel/ Svarog, or thunder with future Brahma? ... I don't think so, but correct me if I'm wrong. Asherah seems to be the only option where nuking with water seems viable... guess who doesn't have her

Tl;dr: I don't see dropping Sol giving me that significant of an advantage in terms of damage output, my hime composition seems to be hard capping me at the moment. Please do tell if that's another misconception.

Also, given your bottom statement, I'm going to go ahead and assume that Joan is the most viable option I have now?

Originally Posted by Cobblemaniac

--
The point is that my team's damage output is... trash, since I'm hitting about as hard as my debuffs allow me to.--

If you drop your pure Defender weapons, you'll see a big damage boost. You had 42% HP in your grid, which is quite a lot considering that we've had two dual-skills for Water so far (and I think only one when you posted that originally). Each Defender SSR -> Assault SR is like 10% more damage, which is NO SMALL FEAT.

Also, 30% Elemental from Relic is a shitton of damage as well.

And finally, using Sol in your team is like -20% damage. I am only using Sol because of heals for Sunday AQ and to solo Ult Fire. While I don't really want to solo Ult Fire, usually nobody from Friends and Union joins, so I often just need to...

Originally Posted by Slashley

If you drop your pure Defender weapons, you'll see a big damage boost. You had 42% HP in your grid, which is quite a lot considering that we've had two dual-skills for Water so far (and I think only one when you posted that originally). Each Defender SSR -> Assault SR is like 10% more damage, which is NO SMALL FEAT.

Also, 30% Elemental from Relic is a shitton of damage as well.

And finally, using Sol in your team is like -20% damage. I am only using Sol because of heals for Sunday AQ and to solo Ult Fire. While I don't really want to solo Ult Fire, usually nobody from Friends and Union joins, so I often just need to...

... right, I always forget about the weapons.

I guess I haven't put out the point that I rely on my water team for literally all content except for thunder currently... seeing that my thunder and dark teams are hopeless, my fire grid isn't up, and my light grid is... lol. A big deal of hesitation comes from there, although I suppose I could start experimenting starting with fire. GO is probably where I need to start changing my playstyle for good.

Using Ea over Sol would already be a big damage increase. Ea may be a pretty meh SSR but she is still an SSR. Using Ea, or Bephegor, instead of Sol, can be the difference between pushing a boss out of rage before it overdrives you or not, not only because of them doing more damage but because they can reduce the rage meter by a large amount with a single skill. Using Sol who is not only a weak attacker but as an off element hime will reduce your damage output in which reducing the rate you can push out of a rage phase. Sure you can use Sol to heal the overdrive damage, assuming it doesn't insta kill you, but how about just bypassing that damage altogether while still doing more damage?

As for what soul you should go, it can change depending on who you plan to get if you're getting a miracle ticket but assuming you don't get anyone, Joan would have been my pick, with Black Prop as an ex skill. You have 2 sources of orb removals, BP, 2 damage cut skills and heals/regen. You shouldn't have any problems surviving fights even without Sol. In fact, you should have probably been using this team to begin with since you don't need Sniper Shot.

You can just try using Joan without her soul weapon to see whether or not she makes a difference for you.

Originally Posted by Aidoru

Using Ea over Sol would already be a big damage increase. Ea may be a pretty meh SSR but she is still an SSR. Using Ea, or Bephegor, instead of Sol, can be the difference between pushing a boss out of rage before it overdrives you or not, not only because of them doing more damage but because they can reduce the rage meter by a large amount with a single skill. Using Sol who is not only a weak attacker but as an off element hime will reduce your damage output in which reducing the rate you can push out of a rage phase. Sure you can use Sol to heal the overdrive damage, assuming it doesn't insta kill you, but how about just bypassing that damage altogether while still doing more damage?

As for what soul you should go, it can change depending on who you plan to get if you're getting a miracle ticket but assuming you don't get anyone, Joan would have been my pick, with Black Prop as an ex skill. You have 2 sources of orb removals, BP, 2 damage cut skills and heals/regen. You shouldn't have any problems surviving fights even without Sol. In fact, you should have probably been using this team to begin with since you don't need Sniper Shot.

You can just try using Joan without her soul weapon to see whether or not she makes a difference for you.

Points taken, although I'd just throw in one final mention that the buffed water rag is... kinda tough to survive, even with Sol and Nike healing my team. I swear they buffed the dmg by 2 times...

Joan BP is indeed a set up I've been trying out these days as a counter to said water rag, and so far she's worked pretty well for me, maybe better than Mord. Except for debuffs constantly missing, but I guess toughing out for 8 turns till Sphinx is a solution.

Thanks for the inputs so far anyway

Guess I'm a bit late, but..

Originally Posted by Aidoru

In the case your team can already reach def down cap without Herc's weapon and without Ambush. You can save for Shingen or just use anyone else. Just because the other souls don't excel at 'burst builds' doesn't mean they should be ignored, especially not if your team isn't build around burst builds to begin with. Going Shingen isn't going to make a major difference than just using any other soul with Provisional Forest as an ex skill because your burst rates will equally slow without the specific party related burst rate buff himes, which applies to your current teams.

Fair point, but Shingen has an advantage in this scenario nevertheless. That being a free EX slot. It can be pretty handy in certain cases (like when Chaos Magic is necessary), otherwise you can just equip BP, or maybe VoF for more better accuracy. Also can speed up bursting a bit with her DATA buff, tho by not a big margin.

@Cobblemaniac
Nothing wrong with going defensive, but your setup seems quite fine to be able to go offensive & you also seem to possess a grid to support that. While warag is certainly tough to deal with off-element, that is probably the only thing that will give you a hard time, so I wouldn't recommend keeping Sol in your team just for that purpose. And I wouldn't waste 120 regalias into a hp hero weapon, either with that almost perfect water team. But I guess if you like turtle mode, Joan hp weapon is certainly a choice.

Originally Posted by Slashley

Is going full retard on Rage cuts a good idea? Probably not. But I am amused. Also, it should be noted just how fucking broken Belphegor is. I pulled Asherat today, so I have ALL Water SSR Hime except the healers (SSR Nike and Aphrodite). And Ea. But nobody cares about Ea. Yet? SR Belphegor is in my party, and isn't going anywhere.

On the other side, it amuses me that you still use sol on water when you already have almost all the water SSRs except nike/aphro, and mordred when you can just run shingen with chaos magic, its just, i cant find proper words.

Originally Posted by Aidoru

You can save for Shingen or just use anyone else. Just because the other souls don't excel at 'burst builds' doesn't mean they should be ignored, especially not if your team isn't build around burst builds to begin with. Going Shingen isn't going to make a major difference than just using any other soul with Provisional Forest as an ex skill because your burst rates will equally slow without the specific party related burst rate buff himes, which applies to your current teams.

You dont go shingen because of provisional forest only, you go shingen cause free EX slot and shes 1 of the 4 souls that can make PF work reliably (the others being herc with weapon, arthur cause miracle and morgan (?)) on water, other souls cant get the 50 bg back without rng unless you stack ashy and saras in the same team and give your soul 45 bg but thats not happening cause that means no def cap, so dont even consider it, a burst build has nothing to do with your soul not being able to get 50 bg in 2 turns.