I focused on his himes because that's what my previous post is about if you bothered to read it. Please don't try to shove some false agenda in there like me ignoring the weapons. I didn't mention his weapons because I don't have a problem with his weapon grid. Anyone can have strong weapon grids by simply clearing events, so thats only a matter of time, so that's reasonable for any dedicated player. But to say an average player has a full SSR hime team is not, let alone the essential ones.Originally Posted by Ikki
Your argument went to hell after this so i stopped reading, maybe the grid pics werent enough for you to point it out in that direction (or you didnt know what to reply), so you focused on what himes he has
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He said that any average player can hit individual burst cap eventually cause that depends on your grid, you dont need a full SSR roster to do that right? unless i missed the part where you need 4 SSR himes so they can finally reach 1M bursts. Originally Posted by Aidoru
Shade on KH, fire main.
Wind Rag farming team:
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Many of those things were not present in my video. Asherah's buff was included in the calc (120% Elemental was used), burst buff was included (each stack is 20 levels of Union burst buff = 60 was used). Fenrir doesn't give burst damage, it is only a burst streak bonus (so final burst damage is totalBurstDamage*.5*1.45*1.2). As said, burst streak bonus is not currently supported by the calc, which is why I haven't used total damage, but separate damage (786k calculated here, 629k against 10 Def). Originally Posted by Unregistered
I realized one thing that was set wrong, and that was Union Guardian is set to level 5, but it's currently not Water. So that's a 6% error that comes in the calc. Sheesh, stupid Union not running Water Guardian during a Thunder event.
Also, to be noted is that I have said that reaching damage cap against 8 Def or Union Demons should be doable. But again,
against 10 Def, I'm currently at 629k. That's a long, long, loooong way to 1m. How exactly do you bridge the rest of the way?1. It does! Originally Posted by Cobblemaniac
2. Yes, as you found out, it adds to Assault.
And uh, 24% Assault from Accessories is not very realistic. Going over 9% on a single Hime is tough (with 3 Accessory slots). I'm sure there are plenty of people who are at 12% on Nutaku or super lucky ones at 15%, but I'm not really sure a single person has managed to get 18%. And if you did... that's still just one Hime.It's just too early for Miracle Tickets. We first need to see it before we can discuss it. Originally Posted by Saeleyna
I've actually made a post about this. Originally Posted by Saeleyna
tl;dr; there is no consensus. Some people go full Def, some go full stats. In the future (second anniversary onwards), the only thing that matters is that you have 3x Tiaras on every character. Though, that requires you to farm the true Ragnarok Disasters a lot.Ideally, you'll want Tiamat. But for now, why not grab Garuda? Garuda comes with that all important 40% Water Elemental attack. Which you're still far, far away from with Tiamat. Originally Posted by Mraktar
Maxing Tiamat comes first, but yes, you want that Water Kaiser too. Looks like it's going to be a very long journey for you, though. Originally Posted by Mraktar
Nice, you have a 2-star Dark Kaiser. Originally Posted by Bear
So, with 20% Atk buff, 3+12+0+6+6 base Assault (27%) + 220 skill levels = 137% Assault, about half health from 3 Prides is 30%. Let's just say that you have 9% Assault from Accessories on all of them as well. So that's 196% Assault.
Anubis + Trivia = 140%, 20% buff, 40% Kaiser, 48% Elemental advantage, 30% Relic weapon = 278% Elemental.
Exceed + PF = 270% burst modifier.
50k base Atk per Hime.
According to my calc, you should be doing 1.1m against 8 Def - with 50% Def Down. But you only have 45%. So 1m. Yet, you're hitting for 1.5m... let's see, Pluto has additional damage from her legos, Berith has self-buffs, Chemo has her whopping 150% Assault. So all of these will hit for more than that. I don't know your MP setup on Shingen, so that's also difficult to calculate. But... what about Satan? All that Satan has for her is 50% more burst modifier, so let's use 320% for her.
Satan should be hitting for 1.1m against 8 Def, with 45% Def Down. So, how come you're hitting far higher than that?SR Hime do significantly less burst damage (150% less, for comparison PF gives is 200%, so PF SR does slightly more burst damage than non-PF SSR), so burst cap is preeeetty tough to reach with SRs. Even more so since SR debuffs tend to be... rather lacking. Originally Posted by Ikki
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Oh yeah definitely i know the multipliers for R and SR are lower, but you dont need 4 SSRs in a team to ensure that your units reach 1M burst, if you have 3 SR and 1 SSR (average player roster), this average team can easily reach 1M with that SSR (on the future), thats all and thats why its dumb to point out the teams like aidoru does, cause it has little to nothing to do with reaching the cap with that single unit. Originally Posted by Slashley
Shade on KH, fire main.
Wind Rag farming team:
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Congratulations, despite me clearing saying it in my previous post that I couldn't care less about your guy's discussion on the damage cap, you again completely misled and derailed it to suit your own agenda despite my post having nothing to do with that. Feel free to look back at any post and locate where I've ever stated that SRs cannot achieve damage cap. Originally Posted by Ikki
The only thing I was addressing was Bear using himself as an example as an average player when he clearly has a more than average hime team. The most ironic thing is you yourself just stated 3SR/1SSR is average, which is literally my point, a full SSR team is not 'average', it's above average.Last edited by Aidoru; 07-26-2018 at 08:19 AM.
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Originally Posted by Aidoru
Your point being... ?
How about you stop using yourself as a standard to excuse yourself or your 'community' from trying to use available resource to do what others been doing already? Screenshots from 4~5 months ago using the same ol' event grid. Hell if I wasn't being an idiot and foddered those SR atk / exceed spears from Iwanagahime raid I prolly could have bursted harder with my SR fire team. Or is an SR team still too high of a standard to reach for the 'west'?Last edited by Bear; 07-26-2018 at 02:37 PM.
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Since the opportunity rose, I thought I'd test the accuracy of the damage calc a bit further. With 10 Def, since so far we've been playing around with 8 Def.
These were fiddled with manually separately to see just how accurate or inaccurate the calc can be:
Hercules: 423k burst (Soul bursts aren't really supported by the calc, but my best guess with a lot of fiddling would be 395k, 93% acc).
Ares: 778k burst (expected: 764k, 98% acc)
Yamaraja: 536k burst (expected: 492k, 91% acc)
Amaterasu: 495k burst (expected: 477k, 96% acc)
Heph: 384k burst (expected: 365k, 95% acc)
Aside from Yamaraja, all of them were within very acceptable calculation range.
Without fiddling manually for each Hime, the calc says 400k burst per SSR before buffs, and factoring in buffs, 465k per SSR (86% acc). Full burst was 4514k (expected 4000k 88% acc). Can't be particularly accurate on Full bursts when the calc doesn't demand separate information on each Hime, so all the inaccuracies pile up.
The calc does downplay burst damage it seems, most likely due to missing base stats from preferred weapons and same-element Eidolons. A quick test didn't exactly make much of a difference though, with Amaterasu's expected burst increased from 477k -> 480k (96% -> 97% acc). Damage range is always a thing, so 100% accuracy is impossible.
(I am also fully aware the my Fire Grid is... well, let's put it optimistically and say that it has a lot of potential to improve. There's only a few SSRs as Fire events have been quite scarce. Upgrading Fire Herc Axe hasn't really been a priority, and I forgot that it's the only Grid with a pure Defender weapon. There simply hasn't been a single Assault/Defender Fire weapon yet, and some HP is really good to have.)What exactly has been done already? Originally Posted by Bear
Also, isn't this an interesting topic. What is enough, and what isn't enough?
Is it enough to farm all Daily and Weekly rewards?
Is it enough to farm all SSRs and side-dish goodies from all events?
Is it enough to farm AQ every day?
Is it enough to spend every single AP and BP ~16 hours a day?
Is it enough to upgrade all your Grids to slvl20?
Because, you know. I've been doing all of that for... 14 months now? If that's not enough, then what is missing?
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Originally Posted by Slashley
You know... I'm actually genuinely curious about your situation too. I respect that you've done pretty much everything that can be done for the grids you're focusing on. But to be very honest, for the time and $ you've spent... The performance? Damage? You've been showing is... for the lack of better word, not quite there, compared to all of those I've seen on nutaku spending the same amount of time and some even with less $.
Well, I gotta leave for work soon so I'll get back on researching with you later.
But for your fire team, just hang on til Horus. It will do a lot better after that (plus maxing your fire grid). And imo, you prolly could have played a lil more aggressively in that AQ run.
p.s. Who did you spend your $ on anyway?Last edited by Bear; 07-26-2018 at 05:24 PM.
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It was never a matter of me using just myself as a standard but using what I've seen from others having played since launch, and having so, I can say it's unlikely that your average player uses all the resources available to them. I'm not sure if it was the meaningless argument between Ikki but my original post and every other one afterwards was never an attempt to drag this out like this, it was simply me questioning you, as you're someone who often provides useful details on this site, so your perspective on the matter would have been something to take note of. But in the end, if this discussions has shown me anything, it has much less to do with being an average player than simply being a dedicated player. Originally Posted by Bear
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I can't keep track how or what made the argument factor in SSR himes. However, even if you do think bear's setup is a little OP, as long as its not a crazy whale setup (like 5 MLB dragon eyes or something), what we're seeing is quite simply a glimpse of what could be if you play optimally without the need for luck. I don't think the concern was ever for what we wanted average players to accomplish...
@Bear, there's 2 things we can try:
1. Mind taking Slash's calculator and stick in the numbers, or alternatively post your weapon grids and necessary info here so we can debug the issue directly?
If the numbers don't add up...
2. If possible, can you test the burst damage values without buff (or exceed and stuff)? The less variables we have on our hands, the easier it is to solve the problem. After we've validated that the calculator is still accurate without these factors, we can slowly break down the inaccuracies on a buff by buff basis.
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