Thread: Kamihime General Discussion + Q&A

Originally Posted by Slashley

Those charts are useless. They give zero context, and with many Hime being dependant on a specific other Hime, I don't see these charts being useful.

Still, newer (and even worse) charts were posted on Discord. Sharing them here for the meme: https://imgur.com/a/z6ljDFG

Yeaaa.....
So, to expand more on why explanation/communicating across the reasoning is important, it goes back to what is the purpose of a tier list in the first place. They're primarily for readers interested in learning who's good or who's bad, right?
Here's the catch: if a person is asking that question, that means it is highly likely that he has not yet developed an evaluation process. So just learning 'what' is good or bad still leaves the 'why' blank*, which in turn can screw with the 'how (to use)' aspect sometimes.
And secondarily there are the readers who know the system fairly well already but are interested in other perspectives anyway. Ratings in a vacuum with no arguments given does nothing for this group.

*it's like when someone asks 'is Ea any good?', and we basically respond with some variant 'nah, she's terrible in most situations' and then just leave it at that. Offering a reason or two may offer some more help to the person asking the question here. Though Bear did cover the end game situation.
(and the basic reasoning I can offer for the reader is that a lot of Ea's value is derived from that maximal damage against stunned enemies buff. But it turns out that a lot of content is designed such that stun mode happens so late into a fight, such that said buff doesn't actually do much to change your probability of winning. IE typically, by the time you've hit stun mode, you're past the threatening part of the fight.)

Still, newer (and even worse) charts were posted on Discord. Sharing them here for the meme: https://imgur.com/a/z6ljDFG

Where did you find that thing? Tell me so i can laugh straight at the face of whoever posted it

Originally Posted by Kimoi

Still, newer (and even worse) charts were posted on Discord. Sharing them here for the meme: https://imgur.com/a/z6ljDFG

Probably the only accurate thing is baal, aphro and vohu being S XD

Originally Posted by Slashley

That, aside from the fact that there's one absolute Queen in Dark, I understand nothing of. So what's the point?

Giving even a tiny bit of context would change that chart from "useless" to "useful to new players, I guess"

As mentioned, in the eyes of anyone who is already well versed in the specific game, those details aren't as important. The GBF chart has less to do with not having details but rather you/us simply not knowing the game characters. It was a chart intended for GBF players. If it was a KH one, you wouldn't need the details as you're plenty knowledgeable about the characters in our game.

These aren't so much to be used as a guide for new players but rather more as a reference to see where each unit stands against others, which is more suited towards late game imo. You can just compare 2 himes and right away you'll think things like "this one is better than that one", "they're on par with each other", etc. Tier charts are just that but simplified in a way its easier to take in than having to read through walls of text and scenarios. The only problem is that these can be very opinionated when a game have different ways to go on about content, so unless we get more players to make their own and then create one using the average of everyone, there will always be a lot that disagree with one persons list.

But if you really wanted to, I believe google docs has the feature to add comments if you wanted to make you own detailed one for the sake of helping new players, or just create a huge list sorted by priority.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Yeaaa.....
So, to expand more on why explanation/communicating across the reasoning is important, it goes back to what is the purpose of a tier list in the first place. They're primarily for readers interested in learning who's good or who's bad, right?
Here's the catch: if a person is asking that question, that means it is highly likely that he has not yet developed an evaluation process. So just learning 'what' is good or bad still leaves the 'why' blank*, which in turn can screw with the 'how (to use)' aspect sometimes.
And secondarily there are the readers who know the system fairly well already but are interested in other perspectives anyway. Ratings in a vacuum with no arguments given does nothing for this group.

*it's like when someone asks 'is Ea any good?', and we basically respond with some variant 'nah, she's terrible in most situations' and then just leave it at that. Offering a reason or two may offer some more help to the person asking the question here. Though Bear did cover the end game situation.
(and the basic reasoning I can offer for the reader is that a lot of Ea's value is derived from that maximal damage against stunned enemies buff. But it turns out that a lot of content is designed such that stun mode happens so late into a fight, such that said buff doesn't actually do much to change your probability of winning. IE typically, by the time you've hit stun mode, you're past the threatening part of the fight.)

Originally Posted by Aidoru

As mentioned, in the eyes of anyone who is already well versed in the specific game, those details aren't as important. The GBF chart has less to do with not having details but rather you/us simply not knowing the game characters. It was a chart intended for GBF players. If it was a KH one, you wouldn't need the details as you're plenty knowledgeable about the characters in our game.

These aren't so much to be used as a guide for new players but rather more as a reference to see where each unit stands against others, which is more suited towards late game imo. You can just compare 2 himes and right away you'll think things like "this one is better than that one", "they're on par with each other", etc. Tier charts are just that but simplified in a way its easier to take in than having to read through walls of text and scenarios. The only problem is that these can be very opinionated when a game have different ways to go on about content, so unless we get more players to make their own and then create one using the average of everyone, there will always be a lot that disagree with one persons list.

But if you really wanted to, I believe google docs has the feature to add comments if you wanted to make you own detailed one for the sake of helping new players, or just create a huge list sorted by priority.

You know, I have entertained myself with the thought of creating a "proper" tierlist for Kamihime. The solution I came up with was three-parted:
1. It should have a numerical value to represent the amount of damage a Hime does. Ultimately, dealing damage is your goal - you win once you've dealt X amount of damage. However, with no debuffs a damage dealing Hime deals half the amount of damage it would otherwise. Thus...
2. The numerical value by itself would not suffice - a Hime with a low amount of personal damage output needs to be shown to have a high value, so Hime would also need to be rated by a "star" system. That way, you can give 5/5 stars for Hime like Svarog and Amaterasu, despite their damage numbers being entirely different. Also, you can give multiple Star ratings to a single Hime. For example, Thor could have a second star value of "6/5 stars for Union events", since... well. You know.
3. There would also need to be an attachment for the reason WHY a Hime has a high-star rating. Just a short "deals damage" for Hime with extreme numbers like Svarog and Chemobog. For support, just short explanation of what they do for your team, so that people would grasp the idea of why Amaterasu and Sol are valuable, and from such a text they _might_ be able to surmise when such are not valuable (like having four 5/5 star debuffers with the same debuff frame is not really a good thing).

Even then? Really, all it would do is be a good reference for new players who are rerolling. So that we'd have one place to point them towards to whenever somebody asks "I have these accounts tell me which are good okay?"
But sanahtlig isn't going to bother because of the sheer amount of effort required. Especially since the answer will be "get a P2W Eidolon" anyway, which would need to be rated 6/5 on top of the chart (takes 0 Hime slots, increases damage output by 25%, pretty fucking good stuff yo).
I'm not going to do it since my interest in Kamihime is waning.

So who is going to?
Nobody.
And really, no big loss.

Wasn't it just better to do a chart that which hime do which role better?
I really want to know if there's some hime actually can do a lot better in certain situations

uhhh i know it's early but i drew a halloween pic of pluto bc ^{i plan to suicide before october this year}

Originally Posted by Kitty

uhhh i know it's early but i drew a halloween pic of pluto bc ^{i plan to find a job before october this year}

i know nothing about art, but i sure like this drawing

----
uploading the encounter ep of the new characters:
Zeruel:

Gabriel:

Metatron:

Originally Posted by Kitty

uhhh i know it's early but i drew a halloween pic of pluto bc ^{i plan to suicide before october this year}

Pluto

It bothers me that her arm perspectives are a bit weird, but. Hot. Fucking. Damn.

You can do this kind of magic with Microsoft paint though?

Though I realise you already pulled it off with beach Uriel the last time. Great job dude