Thread: Kamihime General Discussion + Q&A

Originally Posted by Wanderer

Your team is excellent debuff-wise, but lacks of damage output, which is quite common for Water.

Hercules is great, but as long as your KHs already have def down fully covered, it's better to use Shingen. I guess it's gonna take a while for you to unlock her, so in short term, you can run Andromeda or Arthur, depending on whether there's risk of getting wiped.

If mtix still available, you can pick Aphrodite or Asherah.

Da heck you are talking about?
"Hercules is great, but as long as your KHs already have def down fully covered, it's better to use Shingen." That's totally BS.

Who said you should only get Herc-relic if you don't reach def cap... ?

First of all Shingen will be too fast for his Team anyway, why should he get Shingen?
Furthermore with that team he can just run Hercules+PF.
In addition Hercules has a strong Nuke, your water team lacks dmg anyway, and is a strong tank.
Hercules is also enough to carry your team till AQ4 with relic.

And please don't MTix Aphrodite... That would be a waste. Why?
Snow Raphi and Poseidon are enough to keep you alive. Get Herc relic for more damage and level your water Grid.

MTix Asherah becaue Hercules is also a bit too fast for your water team.
If you don't want to MTix then wait till you get Asherah, Shiva or Neptune to replace Poseidon until she gets her AW.

I have the exactly same water team but Poseidon is in my sub and Asherah in main team.

If you lack the damage to brute force your way, then use Andromeda till your grid is better.
I would say you will need at least 38k attack, Herc relic SL20 and 9k HP+ to do everything without healer, disaster rags not inculuded.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

And please don't MTix Aphrodite... That would be a waste. Why?
Snow Raphi and Poseidon are enough to keep you alive. Get Herc relic for more damage and level your water Grid.

Well, Poseidon for fire content of course. Off-ele she is currently not that good, until her AW.
But Ryu-Oh provides BP and Cthulhu orb eating. Get for both of them affliction acc.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Da heck you are talking about?
"Hercules is great, but as long as your KHs already have def down fully covered, it's better to use Shingen." That's totally BS.

Who said you should only get Herc-relic if you don't reach def cap... ?

Well, I know you are talking self-contradictory BS. I mean, since "Hercules is great" is also seen by you as BS lul

First of all, Herc is also too fast for this team, and fast on his own, while Shingen at least speeds the whole team up.

Furthermore, with “Raphi and Poseidon are enough to keep you alive”, why you need a tank? How can Herc actually tank without taunting abilities?

In addition, Herc + PF? Like Shingen doesn't have an EX slot lol.

And your team is hardly the same as his, as Asherah makes big difference, otherwise why suggesting MTix her? Guess this also explains why you don’t feel Herc being too fast, cuz Asherah helps your KHs keep up.

Aphrodite has 3 nice abilities, but the most valuable one is actually the combo rate up. Her healing is important for beginners (hence my suggestion of MTix her now and Asherah with the next one), and in late game she still serves well as front row to follow up the soul with those extra self-healing and DA.

TBH, I do understand why you think like that. After all, it’s the age of Herc as Slashley said. But this game changes fast and we can learn things from DMM version. It started with the age of Mordred and Sol, then age of Herc and nukes, but soon, the age of burst comes and stays till now.

I said Herc is great as she continues to be relevant in that age, when veterans would drop slow debuffers and use soul for def down while maintaining burst speed (even seeing Arthur w/ Herc’s axe occasionally). But if you got a fast debuffer, or maybe too many debuffers to drop like what we have here, Shingen will be the choice. So, you can just wait and see that age to come for yourself, or I’d suggest you too, instead of packing 80% def down, to try Shingen when her weapon is out, and better to replace Raphi with Saraswati, Ea, or Aphro if you have them.

Originally Posted by Wanderer

In addition, Herc + PF? Like Shingen doesn't have an EX slot lol.

While true, the question is largely "What would he do with his Shingen EX slot?" Because you're not giving a suggestion for that.

Herc is just stronger unless you absolutely require that EX skill. Which you sometimes do, but his team basically covers everything already. Shingen is also stronger in ridiculously fast burst teams, like Wind chaingun builds. At least, I think she is... it's not like I've gotten to test.

Originally Posted by Wanderer

Well, I know you are talking self-contradictory BS. I mean, since "Hercules is great" is also seen by you as BS lul

First of all, Herc is also too fast for this team, and fast on his own, while Shingen at least speeds the whole team up.

Furthermore, with “Raphi and Poseidon are enough to keep you alive”, why you need a tank? How can Herc actually tank without taunting abilities?

In addition, Herc + PF? Like Shingen doesn't have an EX slot lol.

And your team is hardly the same as his, as Asherah makes big difference, otherwise why suggesting MTix her? Guess this also explains why you don’t feel Herc being too fast, cuz Asherah helps your KHs keep up.

Aphrodite has 3 nice abilities, but the most valuable one is actually the combo rate up. Her healing is important for beginners (hence my suggestion of MTix her now and Asherah with the next one), and in late game she still serves well as front row to follow up the soul with those extra self-healing and DA.

TBH, I do understand why you think like that. After all, it’s the age of Herc as Slashley said. But this game changes fast and we can learn things from DMM version. It started with the age of Mordred and Sol, then age of Herc and nukes, but soon, the age of burst comes and stays till now.

I said Herc is great as she continues to be relevant in that age, when veterans would drop slow debuffers and use soul for def down while maintaining burst speed (even seeing Arthur w/ Herc’s axe occasionally). But if you got a fast debuffer, or maybe too many debuffers to drop like what we have here, Shingen will be the choice. So, you can just wait and see that age to come for yourself, or I’d suggest you too, instead of packing 80% def down, to try Shingen when her weapon is out, and better to replace Raphi with Saraswati, Ea, or Aphro if you have them.

...
Water meta next year:
Asherah, Ryu-Oh, Vohu-Manah... last spot whatever you want. Maybe Shiva AW

Age of burst...
Herc relic = 30BG = you can use PF
And the only team that it's a must-have to use Shingen is wind. Maybe dark too, if you have those high DA/TA KH
Water is too slow currently.

DA/TA up...ACC Set Bonus and you have a higher DA/TA rate for each KH.

If you cover 50% def down, then you should go with Herc+PF obviously unless we talk about Burst Wind Meta.
And some dark build, where Shingen has better synergy

And just noooo... Don't waste a MT for Aphrodite.

Shingen is a nice Soul too but for that water team... Herc is the better option in the long run, especially with Tower.

Since everyone is looking into the future i may as well do it, no one has mentioned that shingen can use the new 20 BG EX without losing PF while herc can't, which makes people prefer shingen over herc for some teams, just throwing this here since too much herc biased people around.

honestly herc vs shingen really comes down to "skill nuke with def debuff vs. combo rate with FB nuke"

the way i see it, you can't go wrong with both. but some elements are clearly more prepared towards one soul compared to the other

for instance, dark and fire already can hit 3 frames of def debuffs... technically light too. wind also is MADE for combo rate... i'd honestly just build upon what you have or what you want to aim for.

in my case, i'd take herc for light, but definitely shingen for wind, at least looking at my kami... my fire team can use either one....

Originally Posted by MagicSpice

honestly herc vs shingen really comes down to "skill nuke with def debuff vs. combo rate with FB nuke"

the way i see it, you can't go wrong with both. but some elements are clearly more prepared towards one soul compared to the other

for instance, dark and fire already can hit 3 frames of def debuffs... technically light too. wind also is MADE for combo rate... i'd honestly just build upon what you have or what you want to aim for.

in my case, i'd take herc for light, but definitely shingen for wind, at least looking at my kami... my fire team can use either one....

Many prefer a team setup that can consistently keep up with Shingen's burst generation rate without wasting a single turn, hence wind meta involving Shingen more so than Hercules. Fire can sorta(?) do that with a perfect team of Uriel Ares Svarog Amaterasu/ Mars, but I'd think more people side with Hercules since fire is more like a heavy nuke based element. And besides the extra def break cause the "perfect" team above doesn't hit def cap, that's always a bonus.

Originally Posted by Ikki

Since everyone is looking into the future i may as well do it, no one has mentioned that shingen can use the new 20 BG EX without losing PF while herc can't, which makes people prefer shingen over herc for some teams, just throwing this here since too much herc biased people around.

Even if you all you do is grab 100 fragments per month, it'll only take you 6 months to get Shingen's Relic weapon. Since Nutaku still has 7-9 months before the new EX skills come over here, is there any point to mentioning that right now?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

...
Water meta next year:
Asherah, Ryu-Oh, Vohu-Manah... last spot whatever you want. Maybe Shiva AW

Age of burst...
Herc relic = 30BG = you can use PF
And the only team that it's a must-have to use Shingen is wind. Maybe dark too, if you have those high DA/TA KH
Water is too slow currently.

DA/TA up...ACC Set Bonus and you have a higher DA/TA rate for each KH.

If you cover 50% def down, then you should go with Herc+PF obviously unless we talk about Burst Wind Meta.
And some dark build, where Shingen has better synergy

And just noooo... Don't waste a MT for Aphrodite.

Shingen is a nice Soul too but for that water team... Herc is the better option in the long run, especially with Tower.

It’s good to look what happens on DMM version, but I guess it’s kinda inevitable that old mindset affects the evaluation of those new things.

A typical burst setup will feature Shingen + Encourage (the EX that Shade mentioned), with 4 fast KHs. With all kinds of combo rate and burst buffs, it can perform FB every 3 or 4T, at the cost of usually having only 20% or 30% def down, cuz each element has only 1 fast debuffer, except Light has 3 and Dark has 0. So Dark is truly too slow and players are suffering. Water is not slow at all, neither now, nor in the future, only if you would drop some slow debuffers.
This setup is mainly used when debuffs have no full coverage due to CD, like in GO; or covered by other players like in raids; and when team gets stronger: if the boss can’t survive a FB under 30% def down, 50% just slows you down.

Therefore, when evaluating abilities, don’t forget to check the CD. Herc’s 35BG / 8T will be struggling to keep up with frequent FB. And as grid improves, his nuke of 700k / 8T will become more inferior to a burst every 4T. Thus Herc + PF is outperformed by Shingen + Sniper Shot (a common practice before Encourage is available), when burst unleashes its potential in terms of both frequency and damage.

Due to such superiority of burst, even a “standard” or more balanced setup, which has or almost has 50% debuff, will also rely on bursts, just not that fast. Shingen + Encourage is still popular. And when clearing daliy contents, Herc is favorable as PF won’t do much good on AAB.

Tower is quite unique and should be discussed separately. Basically the lower floors are dominated by Solomon w/ her new EX; and Herc isn’t useful on the 15th floor due to the immunity. Strategies for other floors are highly contextual.

Below is the ranking of Guild Arena event, which tests how much damage you can deal within 15T, thus here are the most op whales,.
Like UE ranking, teams showing here are currently being used, not necessarily those used for the event. But still, it offers a sneak peek into the future of this game.
Among the top 20, 12 are using Shingen, several Arthur, and 1 Herc / Andro / Morgan. Besides, more than half are running only 1 fast debuffer.