Thread: Kamihime General Discussion + Q&A

the guy above me is a real mad lad

Originally Posted by KTA

I do want to respond to the inquires about why light gets good, and how the other elements fare in comparison. As an aside, I'm in general assuming debuff resistant content as a baseline, so I won't be talking about the debuffs that any hime offers, despite some of them being quite powerful if they land.

==========Why Light Meta Gets Good==========
Light becomes powerful because of the upcoming Shingen EX skill + Michael AW, plus some other key himes who are capable of increasing their burst. But these two characters establish a strong foundation which allows light to spit out full bursts one after another.

Michael AW's burst adds 20 BG to all other himes by default while Shingen's EX skill grants team-wide 20 BG up on a 6T cooldown. Shingen's own EX skill is used in conjunction with her self 35 BG UP skill (w/her soul spear equipped) to activate full burst on the same turn she activates Provisional Forest. Afterwards, the team immediately returns to a 40 BG minimum through Michael AW alone while Shingen goes up to 70 due to her Soul Weapon effect. This is all in addition to Shingen and Michael AW's team-wide combo rate up buffs.

When you combine this high BG starting point with certain himes that are capable of self burst up (Lugh + Tish Triya), you obtain an extremely short full burst cycle. Lugh in particular is capable of resetting her 20 BG up skill every turn by consuming 15% of her maximum HP, which Tish covers part of this weakness with her 100% HP heal at the cost of 20% of her own. Tish herself also applies combo rate up on a 3T cd with a 5T duration and gains 10 BG per ability cast, making her no slouch herself.

With all this combined, you can calculate that Light is guaranteed to return to a full burst state after only 3 or 2T, depending on if you get a combo proc, which are extremely likely if you go out of your way to unlock Tiara set bonuses and boost Shingen's base combo rate using the new MP system. Of course, Michael's 20 BG up skill being on a 7T cd means that the next FB will inevitably slower than the last, but the cycle still times well so that it will reset after casting the next Provisional Forest full burst.

As a noteworthy mention, Metatron AW is definitely a good hime, but she has some problems with this composition because she needs time to ramp up. Her Count 0 burst is on an 10T cycle; the earliest it can be executed is by Turn 8. Her Launch Out skill theoretically allows her to execute 3 consecutive bursts, but the issue is that Metatron needs to be at Count 2 to gain the associated zeal effect, requiring 6T of ramp up. This makes her less compatible as a core hime, but since the 4th slot for light is flexible for other himes (slow or fast), it doesn't pose much of an issue in the grand scheme of things. And of course, if not on the main line-up and even unawakened, she should always be used as Sub 1, purely for Launch Out saving your full burst in case of accidents.

We also get Raphael AW. Nobodies talking about that. But hey, another AW! We just get one for free! Light will truly be the privileged element of nutaku's 2019.

tl;dr - muh bursts, tons of damage.

==========Why Thunder is Good, but Hard to Get==========
You may have already heard, but Thunder is also awesome. The problem is that it has two absolutely core hime, one of which is limited and therefore unobtainable for a year after leaving the gacha. These hime are Marduk AW + Thunder Aphrodite, who is still in the gacha as of the time of this post. This is because of her super-powerful team-wide vigor buff, a damage multiplier which is independent of the bonuses granted by elemental attack (most eidolons + soul weapon + elemental damage buffs) and character attack (some eidolons + weapon skills + attack buffs). This makes a 35% vigor buff exactly as advertised: all damage is increased by 35%, so long as characters are at near full HP.

The problem is of course the condition: you need to be at near full HP. Luckily, Thunder Aphrodite already has some mitigation for this. She can heal allies for 1500 on a 7T cycle and grant them a 1000 HP barrier every 5 turns. However, unless you kill the enemy instantly, this will usually not be enough to sustain full efficacy of the buff as the fight drags on.

Enter Marduk AW, who combines attack with defense in conjunction with Thunder Aphrodite. Her 1st ability evolves from a self-barrier + regeneration into a team-wide 400 HP regen + 2500 HP barrier + the "pursuit" buff for 3T on a 7T cooldown (the same as Thunder Aphrodite's vigor buff). The pursuit buff is similar to the burst echo- enemies who are damaged by normal attacks under this buff are damaged for a percentage of the damage again. These powerful effects allows the entire thunder team to maintain vigor while doing high amounts of damage themselves. (Marduk AW also gets some other nice upgrades, but this is the most important one by far.)

The other hime I am less knowledgeable about. Baal Unleashed of course still good, and so is Brahma AW, but I can't really comment any further on them than this. All you need to know is that while this composition is super good, it's just really hard (read: expensive) for most people to get because you can't MT Thunder Aphrodite.

tl;dr - no taphro, no life.

==========Fire will be Fire, but Gets Some Nice Units Too===========
Uriel AW + Svarog AW. Yep, they're still good, no surprise there, and that's why Fire is really expensive in the first place. More importantly, fire never really needed to rely on debuffs in the first place, on account of the Wind raid, and thus they transition easily in the debuff resistant content era. Luckily, Fire will also get some nice units that don't need awakenings to be really good in the coming year.

Most relevant is the real Amon Unleashed, not that crappy dark shit that has mode gauge reduction and stun extend. All jokes aside, the new Amon will be fire type (like her SR version) and has an extremely potent Elemental Attack buff: she increases the Fire (and Water, Thunder, Wind) Attack of all allies by 50% and gives them 20% damage cut for 3T, on a 7T cooldown. She also can grant a team-wide 20 BG up on a 7T cd, which comes with a 20% team-wide attack boost for 3T as a special service. No commentary is needed to explain why is this is super good. (As an aside, she will also have a unique passive which converts her Dark Attack into Fire Attack, but this is just icing on the cake.)

There's also Fire Frey later on, who has a unique 200 BG maximum a total of four abilities instead of three. Haruhi is also a good unit if you can pull her. Overall, Fire gets a lot more interesting in the coming year, so I think there's a lot to look forward to, but getting all these himes will be extremely expensive.

tl;dr - money in the bank, pimpin' ain't easy.

==========Water Gets Their First (?) Awakening==========
I'm pretty sure the devs just looked at water, and they looked at Ea, and they just said to themselves: "Nah, that doesn't count." And so they awaken Poseidon, Shiva, and Cthulu. Are any of them good? I don't know, but it can't get worse than Ea!

Oh yeah, there's also Vohu Manah. She's a new unit that gets released pretty soon, and she applies a very strong 30% water down debuff. I don't really know much else about her besides that, so someone else should comment on this instead.

More importantly, DMM recently got SSR Diana for Water, and applies team-wide vigor! Is this the second coming of Thunder Aphrodite? I don't know, but I'm sure as hell whaling for her in a year! SSR Diana! What else can you say!?

tl;dr - I don't know jack shit, go ask someone else about this.

==========Wind is... yeah I got nothing, where can I buy a new title?==========
I know literally nothing about how wind is going to be in the coming year, but what I do know is that Cú Chulainn gets an awakening. But I don't care about that because I don't know anything about that.

What I do care about is that Azazel gets an awakening and... you know how everyone is using Hercules right now? Well, what if EVERYONE was Hercules? That's Azazel AW. She literally just makes everyone Hercules. Not even joking, she applies 5T team-wide super-buffs on a 7T cooldown.

Now of course, there are limitation. She can only apply one set of buffs to the team at the start of the battle, and one additional set each time after bursting. But this is fine, because her buffs are actually even stronger than Hercules', and there are some other ones Hercules doesn't have too (tho one of them comes with a 5% overheat). Frankly, I haven't seen her in action yet, but the kit is anything if not exciting.

tl;dr - 1st Hercules' Olympics 2019, the competitors are all Hercules,

==========Dark is Extremely Sad==========
What can I say? They get no awakenings for the next year. Literally none. And their new units aren't anything to write home about either. Plus all the debuff resistant content makes a lot of Dark units worse too. It will be a very sad year for dark, as the developer's neglect him in favor of his ivy league brother, light, while dark is forced to enroll in community college with a 2.5 GPA.

tl;dr - get back in the cupboard, harry!

First of all thy for your nice informations.
However... something isn't correct.

[QUOTE=KTA;137126]There's also Fire Frey later on, who has a unique 200 BG maximum a total of four abilities instead of three. Haruhi is also a good unit if you can pull her. Overall, Fire gets a lot more interesting in the coming year, so I think there's a lot to look forward to, but getting all these himes will be extremely expensive.
tl;dr - money in the bank, pimpin' ain't easy.

What are you talking! No, seriously! What the hell are you talking about?!

This also applies to light and any other element. You want the meta? Then you are lucky, you whale for them or spend 3-4 Miracle Tickets.
What fire makes extremely expensive aren't the KHs but the grid! (Ascalon, Nemea, Mars, another Exceed weapon etc)
Because you can MT: Svarog, Uriel, SSR Maid Amon and Fire Frey. If you are already a fire main then you should have the first two units already.

Of course this also applies to any other element.
Just that you know SSR Maid Amon and Fire Frey aren't limited. I have no idea why are you saying fire is extremely expensive.
Thunder is extremely expensive because Thunder Aphrodite is a limited core KH for thunder.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

First of all thy for your nice informations.
However... something isn't correct.

Originally Posted by KTA

There's also Fire Frey later on, who has a unique 200 BG maximum a total of four abilities instead of three. Haruhi is also a good unit if you can pull her. Overall, Fire gets a lot more interesting in the coming year, so I think there's a lot to look forward to, but getting all these himes will be extremely expensive.
tl;dr - money in the bank, pimpin' ain't easy.

What are you talking! No, seriously! What the hell are you talking about?!

This also applies to light and any other element. You want the meta? Then you are lucky, you whale for them or spend 3-4 Miracle Tickets.
What fire makes extremely expensive aren't the KHs but the grid! (Ascalon, Nemea, Mars, another Exceed weapon etc)
Because you can MT: Svarog, Uriel, SSR Maid Amon and Fire Frey. If you are already a fire main then you should have the first two units already.

Of course this also applies to any other element.
Just that you know SSR Maid Amon and Fire Frey aren't limited. I have no idea why are you saying fire is extremely expensive.
Thunder is extremely expensive because Thunder Aphrodite is a limited core KH for thunder.

Yeah I should clarify what I meant by that. Thunder of course has the potential to be the most expensive since there is no guarantee for obtaining Thunder Aphrodite. What I'm talking about in terms of expensiveness is not only the money involved but also the investment necessary to awaken Uriel. Part of that is because Uriel and Svarog both need to be awakened with 6 eyes, something not every player easily comes by in a short amount of time. For people who have already reached this step, it's no longer an issue since yes, Fire Amon and Fire Frey can both be MT'd (tho Haruhi is a limited option). People who have not reached this step will likely find awakening to be a significant bottleneck, unless they get a few dupes, are in a top union, or if they wait an extended period of time.

The other issue with expensiveness is, as you mentioned, the grid. My wording definitely didn't appropriately reflect that, so that's my bad. The optimal grid is of course insanely expensive, with Mars lances for null spear being on the low end and Ascalons for null sword being on the space whales end.

Finally, it may just be my personal bias, but the other reason I view fire as overall more expensive is the lack of good substitutes. You just have a lot of individually insane units that no other unit in the same element can fulfill, with Uriel AW and Svarog AW standing at the top of that pyramid. So the lack of good alternatives in my mind raises the investment required to have a competitive composition going along the way.

Daily reminder that if you didn't start playing this game since early, getting a Fire grid is just impòssible unless you invest some big bucks into this game.

A lot of ppl seem to like thrash talking dark, but I should really point out, if you're a dark main, don't worry too much. Dark really isn't THAT bad off. It's true, right now their himes don't have the best synergy. They have strong attackers (and debuffers which will fall out of favor) and are missing just one really good support hime. But it's already mentioned that Osiris and Hades will get buffed soon, and a good Osiris buff/AW can easily fix a lot of Dark's issues. Worst case, they are just one good new buffing hime away from being right back in the mix (and that can happen any day, and honestly, I'm pretty thankful it isn't one of the new limited new year ones).

The thing that dark DOES have, is an amazing weapon grid, with greed (phantom) UE giving them more SSR than other elements (except Light), most vet Dark weapon grid are full of FLB weapons, to the point that the latest FLB weapon (Medusa's sword) is just considered thrash unless you're really behind (atm: 5 dark UE axes, 3 hammers, 2 apoc lances). If you somehow manage to luck into a Null AXE? You're set.

With that grid, the coming buffs, and an AW or two? Dark will probably be fine soon enough. It just seems like right now they are focused on buffing up water because a new round of towers are coming up and they are preparing people (or taking advantage of people preparing) for that.

tl;dr: don't sweat it.

Originally Posted by Laventale

Daily reminder that if you didn't start playing this game since early, getting a Fire grid is just impòssible unless you invest some big bucks into this game.

> started on DMM 3 months ago
> has a 130% assault fire grid with various other dual skills
> spent nothing

Originally Posted by Unregistered

A lot of ppl seem to like thrash talking dark, but I should really point out, if you're a dark main, don't worry too much. Dark really isn't THAT bad off. It's true, right now their himes don't have the best synergy. They have strong attackers (and debuffers which will fall out of favor) and are missing just one really good support hime. But it's already mentioned that Osiris and Hades will get buffed soon, and a good Osiris buff/AW can easily fix a lot of Dark's issues. Worst case, they are just one good new buffing hime away from being right back in the mix (and that can happen any day, and honestly, I'm pretty thankful it isn't one of the new limited new year ones).

The thing that dark DOES have, is an amazing weapon grid, with greed (phantom) UE giving them more SSR than other elements (except Light), most vet Dark weapon grid are full of FLB weapons, to the point that the latest FLB weapon (Medusa's sword) is just considered thrash unless you're really behind (atm: 5 dark UE axes, 3 hammers, 2 apoc lances). If you somehow manage to luck into a Null AXE? You're set.

With that grid, the coming buffs, and an AW or two? Dark will probably be fine soon enough. It just seems like right now they are focused on buffing up water because a new round of towers are coming up and they are preparing people (or taking advantage of people preparing) for that.

tl;dr: don't sweat it.

Good to hear, was kind of getting dismayed by KTA's post but I assume it only applies to whalers and the top elite in the first place. Then again I don't really have much choice in the matter as a f2p except to reroll, but I'm not complaining about my current setup.

well, the main reason of dark drowning is cuz its relies heavily on debuffs

Originally Posted by Laventale

Daily reminder that if you didn't start playing this game since early, getting a Fire grid is just impòssible unless you invest some big bucks into this game.

Well fire can buy vlad lance in ori shop to create lance grid. Lance grid is one of the best phantom grid. Water actually hard for f2p than fire. Water has no sr healer or free raid sr healer. It will make them doing hard in important grind esp GO mission. And long run grind like acc 5 in general.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Water has no sr healer or free raid sr healer.

Somebody take away this man's drink, he clearly has had too much.