Thread: Kamihime General Discussion + Q&A

Originally Posted by Slashley

Another two things with the premise, please add base 100% to the calculations, it makes a difference. And also, you're calculating at VERY low Assault numbers, which I reaaaally don't think will apply to anyone who has played for more than a couple of months. Well, that one can be debated, but to be noted is that anyone that new is unlikely to have many weapons that will stay in their Grid - except maybe a Soul weapon if they've somehow managed to leech enough.

1) I'm not stupid, please don't assume otherwise. Obviously I included the base -_-
2) We are talking about someone who don't have a grid at all and is trying to set up one quickly for the tower. We are obviously not talking about a 2 years veteran, here. Calculating which kind of skill should be leveled up first quickly doesn't apply to anyone "who has played for more than a couple of months". Other than that, I take a SR grid, not a R grid or something like that.


You are right on the eidolon attack, but it doesn't change much if you are also including a 100% eidolon in the calculation. The numbers will be a little bit more closer, but the results will be the same.

Originally Posted by Slashley

But you can, and probably should, use a Character Atk Eidolon on yourself for the HP. Assuming you're running a 100% Friend Eidolon, which you probably will in all content that matters in any way.

I... don't really even want to look at those maths, really. If your premise is wrong, then the rest crumbles. Another two things with the premise, please add base 100% to the calculations, it makes a difference. And also, you're calculating at VERY low Assault numbers, which I reaaaally don't think will apply to anyone who has played for more than a couple of months. Well, that one can be debated, but to be noted is that anyone that new is unlikely to have many weapons that will stay in their Grid - except maybe a Soul weapon if they've somehow managed to leech enough.

I think Keyen's big insight into Tower for Noobs is that you have elemental advantage (+45%) with every Fire team you field. Given that a base set of 10 SRs is only +30% assault, the optimal approach is to raise that as fast as possible so that you can compete. If you're using Belial (+100% elemental damage) for the most difficult content than you really really want to raise assault as cheaply as possible. Any new player should, at the least, have 10 SRs at 10 or so skill level (80% assault) and should do that first rather than worrying about maxing out stuff that stays in the grid long term (like I suggested). You should definitely do this if this isn't your main and you're noob. The best and fastest bang for your limited buck. Is it a viable long term strategy? Hell no!! As you're extending your time to build the super great fire grid. But if you're not a fire main, why would you care?


Dejnov.

Horey Shet, I did not expect such detailed and in-depth discussions since my question was quite stupid and short, hahaha.

I'm quite lucky as my Fire has the best weapon grid and the largest hime pool of all my elements. 8 SSRs, 12 SRs, and 11 Rs with Balance/Defense/Tricky covered. So I guess just pump my grid a bit more while leveling them all up so I can customize team better.

Also about Keyen's advice, I think that is a bit situational? If we used the upcoming tower as an example, we happen to have a Fire UE right before it with a Pride and an Assault SSR. If the grid contains only 3 SRs waiting to be swapped out, we could argue that after replacing 2 SRs with SSRs, the remaining SR probably should not be leveled past 8. Reason being that ONE SR won't be there long enough to make the investment worth it for 6% assault. But if the grid has a bit more SRs(4+), then it would be worth doing so because those SRs would have a longer life-span on the grid.

But I guess even then, no matter the situation we can say that one thing probably holds true, and that is IF the soul weapon in question is Solomon's then it might be better to just leave the weapon at SL1. Solomon would mainly be used for floors 1-8, and to my understanding she benefits more from Char ATK(assault/eido) than "Element" ATK.

There is one thing about Keyen's math which I am very confused about, mainly because I actually don't know the formula. The extra 45% elemental attack used, probably comes from elemental advantage... but I thought the bonus from elemental advantage is multiplicative to everything and not additive to Ele ATK.

The second problem of soul weapon SL is the fact that unlike the others 9, you will change them depending of the character you will use. It's the most flexible weapon, and for that, the one which will be the most likely "wasted" when you don't use the proper character (so when you use solomon/hercules/shingen who is not upgraded), while a SR weapon will be active all the time.

But yeah, it's situational. If you have a ton of SSR weapons, the soul weapon will most likely regain its #1 position in priority due to an higher amount of assault % and the fact you will need twice the amount of R to upgrade.

For damage:

Damage =　ATK on edit Screen
　　× (1 + Eidolon Character ATK↑ + Assault weapon + ATK bufs + Assist)
　　× (1 + Eidolon Elemental ATK↑ + Soul Weapon + Elemental Buffs + Elemental Advantage)
　　× (1 + Vigor Weapon + Vigor Buff)
　　× (1 + Critical)
　　× (1 + other buffs (rampaging, dmg vs stun, etc))
　　× (1 + Union Guardian)
　　× (1 - ATK Debuffs)
　　÷ {Enemy DEF × (1 + enemy DEF buffs)}

The elemental advantage is only multiplicative to everything else in the full burst formulae (and double dip in this occasion).

Originally Posted by Keyen

The second problem of soul weapon SL is the fact that unlike the others 9, you will change them depending of the character you will use. It's the most flexible weapon, and for that, the one which will be the most likely "wasted" when you don't use the proper character (so when you use solomon/hercules/shingen who is not upgraded), while a SR weapon will be active all the time.

For damage:

Ah, then that makes sense. I was under the wrong impression the whole time haha. Thank you.

Oh do you know how the calculations work for the -25% damage received?

Damage taken = Int {Enemy ATK
* (1 + Enemy ATK Buffs)
* (Enemy Elemental Advantage + Elemental Buff)
* (1 - Ally Reduce DMG)
/ (Ally DEF(10) + Soul DEF / 10)
/ (1 + Assist DEF + Ability DEF + Accessory DEF)
* (1 + DMG Range)}
* DMG Multiplier

It's 0,75 in this case. It's still additive with any elemental buff the enemy can have.

Originally Posted by kyc992

There is one thing about Keyen's math which I am very confused about, mainly because I actually don't know the formula. The extra 45% elemental attack used, probably comes from elemental advantage... but I thought the bonus from elemental advantage is multiplicative to everything and not additive to Ele ATK.

Elemental (dis)advantage is added to Elemental Atk. The multipliers to base Atk are, off the top of my head, Assault, Elemental, Crit, Vigor, Union Guardian, Special (which we'll have starting next week). Those are the common ones, then you also have Berserk and Stun punisher (which don't stack as they're in the same modifier for some reason and overwrite each other despite the weaker still showing up?!)... was that all?

EDIT: Har, while typing this in the past five minutes there's been like three posts.

Originally Posted by Keyen

The second problem of soul weapon SL is the fact that unlike the others 9, you will change them depending of the character you will use. It's the most flexible weapon, and for that, the one which will be the most likely "wasted" when you don't use the proper character (so when you use solomon/hercules/shingen who is not upgraded), while a SR weapon will be active all the time.

Solomon sure, but... are you really going to swap Souls once you have a Herc/Shingen Soul weapon? I don't think so. You pick one and you level their weapon and you stick to it for a long, long, LONG time. If not forever. You can upgrade from Herc to Shingen if your team improves, but outside of that...

Originally Posted by Slashley

EDIT: Har, while typing this in the past five minutes there's been like three posts.Solomon sure, but... are you really going to swap Souls once you have a Herc/Shingen Soul weapon? I don't think so. You pick one and you level their weapon and you stick to it for a long, long, LONG time. If not forever. You can upgrade from Herc to Shingen if your team improves, but outside of that...

I'm not saying you will switch a lot between them, i'm saying that if you upgrade Hercules weapon (for instance), it won't help any solomon when you are using her during the early tower. Upgrade an assault weapon will. I'm not saying it will do a tremendous difference because you should switch as soon as you encounter difficulties anyway, but i'm just saying it's another thing to take in account.


Edit: To be perfectly clear, of course you should upgrade your soul weapon. However, in this specific case, with limited ressources and especially R weapons, soul weapon is not always the best course of action, especially if you still have a lot of SR assault in your grid. That's all.

However, if you're using Solomon in the Tower, then it's a level which won't pose a big difficulty for you. So... having a weaker Solomon... won't exactly impact anything.

For Fires I have 11 Rs, 16 SRs, and 5 SSRs.
I know that for the earliest floors it's best to just use the bare minimum number of Rs to complete the quests, but the whole cooldown thing makes it hard for me to plan ahead. Is there an ideal setup for when to use hime as you climb?