Thread: Kamihime General Discussion + Q&A

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Cheno can if you not active her 3rd skill, thana skill cooldown is too long you you won’t have it in the 2nd rotation, osi BG skill is stupid, 15% BG is no different with 10% BG in 4t burst cycle, Satan AW is decent but no way she can hold in 1 slot that require 90BG in 3 turn, nice try but again pls

But you don't actually have to generate burst in 3T and burst on 4th. You can just as easily run a dark team that generates burst in 4T and bursts on 5th. You then won't have to activate both powers each cycle to get to 90 (first cycle is encourage and grim reaper for bonus 45, cherno with her burst up power for a bonus 50, and 20 to the others), while saving either Osi's and their attack up powers for the 2nd cycle, then rinse back to the first set. You won't slow down and can keep this up continuously.

That allows you to run Shingen with Encourage Inspiration as your Soul and Thanatos, Chernobog, SatanAW, and Osiris (or Pluto) as your Himes. That's a fairly fast strong team, with -50% DEF down, orb eat, heal OR damage cut, and attack% up.

But the real beauty of a dark team like this is that almost everything else is free to play. You can pick up Jack O'Lantern from the Eido shop and she gives 45% Dark Element attack and Zeal (for later bursts). And Dark has the absolute best F2P grid. Their UE are all Pride/Defender OR Assault/Exceed. Do two or three of these and a couple of Hime weapons and you should easily have a 9 assault, 6 defender, 3 exceed grid (plus soul weapon in 10th slot). That's damn near perfect.

Heck if you picked up the Butterfly Bow (assault/defender), Apocalypse Spear (assault/defender), Amphi's Dragon Blade (defender/assault) or even the shitty Oricalcum Axe (defender/assault!!) will work to give you that full assault/defender (with a little exceed) grid that every other element is shitting over. Then slowly brick the Hime weapons for total power, awaken Thanatos in 12 months (which means she'll be much faster on her skills as they all go down one cycle time) and you're starting to burst fairly quickly.


Once you hit debuff resistant content you just phase out SatanAW (for Pluto) and you should be good to go. You'll still have one DEF debuff and one dizzy skill that will be wasted. Not the end of the world on skills.



Dejnov.


P.S. You also keep forgetting that even though Shingen can generate 30 burst per turn, she has to generate 150 total burst to max out provisional forest. Which means every two cycles she's got to generate a total of 250 burst (one with PF and one without). That works out to around 8T on her cycle which is approximately a 4T (burst on 5th) cycle time for her. The Dark team above can easily keep up with that.

Originally Posted by Dejnov

But you don't actually have to generate burst in 3T and burst on 4th. You can just as easily run a dark team that generates burst in 4T and bursts on 5th. You then won't have to activate both powers each cycle to get to 90 (first cycle is encourage and grim reaper for bonus 45, cherno with her burst up power for a bonus 50, and 20 to the others), while saving either Osi's and their attack up powers for the 2nd cycle, then rinse back to the first set. You won't slow down and can keep this up continuously.

That allows you to run Shingen with Encourage Inspiration as your Soul and Thanatos, Chernobog, SatanAW, and Osiris (or Pluto) as your Himes. That's a fairly fast strong team, with -50% DEF down, orb eat, heal OR damage cut, and attack% up.

But the real beauty of a dark team like this is that almost everything else is free to play. You can pick up Jack O'Lantern from the Eido shop and she gives 45% Dark Element attack and Zeal (for later bursts). And Dark has the absolute best F2P grid. Their UE are all Pride/Defender OR Assault/Exceed. Do two or three of these and a couple of Hime weapons and you should easily have a 9 assault, 6 defender, 3 exceed grid (plus soul weapon in 10th slot). That's damn near perfect.

Heck if you picked up the Butterfly Bow (assault/defender), Apocalypse Spear (assault/defender), Amphi's Dragon Blade (defender/assault) or even the shitty Oricalcum Axe (defender/assault!!) will work to give you that full assault/defender (with a little exceed) grid that every other element is shitting over. Then slowly brick the Hime weapons for total power, awaken Thanatos in 12 months (which means she'll be much faster on her skills as they all go down one cycle time) and you're starting to burst fairly quickly.


Once you hit debuff resistant content you just phase out SatanAW (for Pluto) and you should be good to go. You'll still have one DEF debuff and one dizzy skill that will be wasted. Not the end of the world on skills.



Dejnov.


P.S. You also keep forgetting that even though Shingen can generate 30 burst per turn, she has to generate 150 total burst to max out provisional forest. Which means every two cycles she's got to generate a total of 250 burst (one with PF and one without). That works out to around 8T on her cycle which is approximately a 4T (burst on 5th) cycle time for her. The Dark team above can easily keep up with that.

1. Yep the dark team above can keep up with 5t burst cycle, i’m not gonna agure with that but osiris is a weak hime untill her rebalance and she only there for her BG skill, she will take Pluto slot just to make sure Satan and Thanatos keep up with the burst cycle

2.Yeah most dark weapon is free but they have no option for a good null grid unless you are a big whale. A good null grid with all weapon FLB give you 6000-7000 base stat which is 11% more dmg overal, and if your null weapon have assault, it’s a free 20% more dmg overal on ONE weapon.

So yeah null axe with 4 dark UE axe and herc axe is his only option, it’s decent i guess, i think both of them lack 1 or 2 axe. And if you not run null grid to prio the 9 assault 6 defender 3 exeed dream. Well then the value of your assault decrease because you have too much assault compare to raw stat. Tell me which is better 189% assault 50k stat vs 168%(184% if the null have assault) assault 56k stat, easy math right ?

3.Thanatos AW do not offer any party BG solution for your team, it just make him hold his 1 slot better

4.Shingen only need 2 DA or 1 TA in 3 turn to PF FB at turn 4 so yeah no problem unless you unlucky af

5. Now i think about it osi wierd BG skill so work really good with thana and satan AW because their BG skill is wierd too, but she gonna need 1 lucky combo hit from her 11% combo rate every 4t turn to keep up with the burst cycle so good luck, shingen can help her in the first cycle but not in the 2nd, will be better when tiara set come out but it still RNG in 2nd cycle.

6.Choose osi for fast but clumsy weak dmg burst or Pluto for slow strong burst, that’s dark only 2 option.

Originally Posted by kyc992

Hmm but can't we think of it like this?



Burst Gauge requirements excluding BG from Osiris DH
Without EI:
Thanatos: 75
Chernobog: 65
Satan: 55
Osiris: 45

With EI:
Thanatos: 55
Chernobog: 45
Satan: 35
Osiris: 25


First Cycle:
Turn 1: Shingen Stallion Gale(party DATA), Thanatos Grim Reaper(25), Chernobog Groom wrap(30)+Chemnostar Flush(DATA), Osiris Dark Harvest(15)
Turn 4: Burst

Second Cycle:
Turn 5: Thanatos Succeed Death(90), Chernobog Groom wrap(30)+Chemnostar Flush(DATA), Satan Fall from Heaven(DATA), Osiris Dark Harvest(15)
Turn 8: Burst

Repeat the above 2 "rotations" and use Encourage Inspiration if you have a hime that lacks 10-20 burst gauge for a full burst?
I still think it is very viable, just maybe, maybe there is that ONE turn(rng giving you 0 data) which instead of 4T burst you are at 5T burst... but wouldn't that still be better than NOT aiming for a fast team and sticking with ~6T bursts?

So you want osi combo 2 time in 3 turn with her pathetic 11% combo rate (36% with shingen DATA buff ) ?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

2.Yeah most dark weapon is free but they have no option for a good null grid unless you are a big whale. A good null grid with all weapon FLB give you 6000-7000 base stat which is 11% more dmg overal, and if your null weapon have assault, it’s a free 20% more dmg overal on ONE weapon.

So yeah null axe with 4 dark UE axe and herc axe is his only option, it’s decent i guess, i think both of them lack 1 or 2 axe. And if you not run null grid to prio the 9 assault 6 defender 3 exeed dream. Well then the value of your assault decrease because you have too much assault compare to raw stat. Tell me which is better 189% assault 50k stat vs 168%(184% if the null have assault) assault 56k stat, easy math right ?

You do have an option: It's hammers. They have Carnage (Assault+++). You'll have three Assault/Exceed hammers from the Union Event, which means you only have to find two more. Nephthys has an assault/defender SSR hammer. After that either Manes or Andhaka's SR Hammers are an option for your fifth. That'll give you 9 Assault, 3 Exceed and 5 Defender grid. If you use Andhaka's she has Assault and Rush on her Hammer.

I believe that comes darn near close to an ultimate grid.


Dejnov.


P.S. There are at least 4 advent events that had Dark SR Hammers with Assault. Any will work for that last sole spot.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

So you want osi combo 2 time in 3 turn with her pathetic 11% combo rate (36% with shingen DATA buff ) ?

1) 36% = 36 times in 100 = slightly more than 1 in 3, a lucky triple would do the job. But in a more realistic scenario it would be 1 double within the 3 turns. Factor in cooldown on EI and that means you would be doing either a 4T burst or a 5T burst.

2) "maybe there is that ONE turn(rng giving you 0 data) which instead of 4T burst you are at 5T burst." I'm pretty sure being able to full burst on average once every 4.5 turns is decent enough to be considered "possible for a fast team". Unless you are going to say: EVERYTHING IS SHIT AND PATHETIC AND IMPOSSIBLE IF IT CAN'T DO A 4T BURST 100% OF THE TIME, which by the way is the very impression I keep getting from you even though you may or may not mean it that way.

3) Relying too much on RNG can be a factor as to why it is not viable, and I do agree that the party could be better if there was a more stable factor involved. But ultimately it is still theory crafting and does not hurt to experiment. It would be helpful if you had everything I mentioned(which Argo does have, but I don't hence "theory crafting") and could make a video of a test run that lasts multiple turns so we can see with clarity that it in fact will never work. That way Argo can see clearly it won't work, and I will also know that it's something I should not aim for in the future.

4) A discussion is better held by providing facts, numbers, and theories of possibilities to the table, accepting mistakes and amending thoughts to discuss further is more beneficial to both parties. By trying to prove yourself right "just because you said so" while ignoring any and every fact the other party brings is not discussing but imposing your opinion on others, which is usually what SJWs do and I hope I'm having a discussion(and continue doing so) with someone more logical than those heinous freeloaders.

Originally Posted by Dejnov

You do have an option: It's hammers. They have Carnage (Assault+++). You'll have three Assault/Exceed hammers from the Union Event, which means you only have to find two more. Nephthys has an assault/defender SSR hammer. After that either Manes or Andhaka's SR Hammers are an option for your fifth. That'll give you 9 Assault, 3 Exceed and 5 Defender grid. If you use Andhaka's she has Assault and Rush on her Hammer.

I believe that comes darn near close to an ultimate grid.


Dejnov.


P.S. There are at least 4 advent events that had Dark SR Hammers with Assault. Any will work for that last sole spot.

A SR with M assault is 1500 stat and 8% assault behind a FLB SSR, that’s a big dmg lose that the 16% assault from hammer just enough to balance back. So yeah not much different.

Originally Posted by kyc992

1) 36% = 36 times in 100 = slightly more than 1 in 3, a lucky triple would do the job. But in a more realistic scenario it would be 1 double within the 3 turns. Factor in cooldown on EI and that means you would be doing either a 4T burst or a 5T burst.

2) "maybe there is that ONE turn(rng giving you 0 data) which instead of 4T burst you are at 5T burst." I'm pretty sure being able to full burst on average once every 4.5 turns is decent enough to be considered "possible for a fast team". Unless you are going to say: EVERYTHING IS SHIT AND PATHETIC AND IMPOSSIBLE IF IT CAN'T DO A 4T BURST 100% OF THE TIME, which by the way is the very impression I keep getting from you even though you may or may not mean it that way.

3) Relying too much on RNG can be a factor as to why it is not viable, and I do agree that the party could be better if there was a more stable factor involved. But ultimately it is still theory crafting and does not hurt to experiment. It would be helpful if you had everything I mentioned(which Argo does have, but I don't hence "theory crafting") and could make a video of a test run that lasts multiple turns so we can see with clarity that it in fact will never work. That way Argo can see clearly it won't work, and I will also know that it's something I should not aim for in the future.

4) A discussion is better held by providing facts, numbers, and theories of possibilities to the table, accepting mistakes and amending thoughts to discuss further is more beneficial to both parties. By trying to prove yourself right "just because you said so" while ignoring any and every fact the other party brings is not discussing but imposing your opinion on others, which is usually what SJWs do and I hope I'm having a discussion(and continue doing so) with someone more logical than those heinous freeloaders.

You know Shingen combo buff only have 2 turn up time right ?, so, in the cycle you don’t have EI, Osiris will need to get 45 BG( or 50 what’s the difference) in 3t, let see, t1 36%, 1/3 chance you success , turn 2 also 1/3 chance to success , turn 3 when combo buff go off, 1/10 chance to success. And you need 2 out of 3 success to FB on turn 4, hmmmmmm, turn 3 probably hopeless so I just care about turn 1 and 2, hit 36% success rate 2 time in a row, sound fucking realistic, miss 1 and hit 1, yeah can happen and you will BT in turn 5, miss both, which is the most possible scenario, then FB in turn 6 then. Is that enough facts, numbers, and theories for you ?

P/s: anything can’t do 4t FB is pathetic because it’s a different from a raid MVP with tons of null weps and magna to a unfortunate 3rd place with just seed and useless mats

Originally Posted by Unregistered

A SR with M assault is 1500 stat and 8% assault behind a FLB SSR, that’s a big dmg lose that the 16% assault from hammer just enough to balance back. So yeah not much different.

Most dark SR hammer recently is around 1800 atk, and the null hammer is 30% assault

Originally Posted by Unregistered

P/s: anything can’t do 4t FB is pathetic because it’s a different from a raid MVP with tons of null weps and magna to a unfortunate 3rd place with just seed and useless mats

What is this even trying to say.

Originally Posted by nut

Most dark SR hammer recently is around 1800 atk, and the null hammer is 30% assault

23%. 30% is skill level 30, but you can't FLB Phantom weapons.