Thread: Kamihime General Discussion + Q&A

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

The stat difference in ATK between maxed SR and SSR accessories is about 600, or 1.5% of a character's total. Double ATK up has a 2% chance of adding an attack at max level (essentially a 2% damage increase). As you can see, 1 good skill can make a LV40 SR better than a LV50 SSR, and with a lot less investment.

Considering a 2% Double attack up as a 2% damage increase is unrealistic. Base stats will improve damage from every source (Autos, Ability, Burst) while double attack up will only increase damage coming from auto attacks. Even by equipping it to a Kami with no damage dealing abilities, you would need less than 25% of your damage coming from Burst for double attack to be better, and your burst does more than that. Not to mention, you get less HP too.

Originally Posted by Sfay

Considering a 2% Double attack up as a 2% damage increase is unrealistic. Base stats will improve damage from every source (Autos, Ability, Burst) while double attack up will only increase damage coming from auto attacks. Even by equipping it to a Kami with no damage dealing abilities, you would need less than 25% of your damage coming from Burst for double attack to be better, and your burst does more than that. Not to mention, you get less HP too.

Double attack rate up increases Burst damage too, as it allows you to Burst more often. Double attack is particularly nice because you can stack it on frontliners and get the full effect. Of course, if your Soul is your bottleneck for Bursts this won't change that.

So how do accessory buffs stack up?

+ATK (+3% max) has a 0.45% return in damage for each additional 1% at 120% character ATK, or +1.35% damage for a max-level accessory. As a rule of thumb, take the nominal effect and divide by 2 for the true effect on damage.

Double attack (+2%) directly modifies normal attack damage and can modify Burst damage as well if it contributes to more frequent Bursts. As such, it's best used on frontliners. Using a build with Shiva where the damage breakdown for normal/skill/Burst damage was 51/20/29%, +Double attack adds 1-1.6% damage, depending on whether it's contributing to more frequent Bursts or not. That range will also fluctuate somewhat depending on skill damage contribution to overall damage. So on a bottleneck character, double ATK would be better, while on others +ATK might be better. As a rule of thumb, take the nominal effect and divide by 2 for the true effect on normal attack damage.

+Ability damage (+5%) is worse than +ATK unless the ability has a base modifier of < 3.7. If we're going to buff abilities and nothing else we want to see at least a 2x difference, so cut that to < 2. The ability should also do significantly more unbuffed total damage than a normal attack to be worth buffing; 4x would be a reasonable cutoff. Put these together and the ability needs at least 3 hits to benefit significantly from +Ability damage on accessories, with SR characters' weak damage skills disqualified pretty much by default. You could probably say that about +ability damage in general.

+Burst damage (+5%) is useless because, like +ability damage, it adds to a modifier that is already greater than 1. For SR+ kamihime, that's 3.5+, essentially nerfing the effect to the same as +ATK or less. Burst builds can expect even less return since they'll be using temporary buffs to raise that base modifier even higher. This stat exists to trick players who don't understand the damage formulas. As a general rule, take the nominal effect and divide by 5 to get the true effect.

+HP% (+3%) is straightforward. But you should already have +HP from Defender weapons, so the effect will be somewhat reduced. Only recommended for kamihime with low HP or frontliners. Otherwise use Defender weapons and eidolons to manipulate HP for your entire team at once.

+DEF (+3%) decreases damage by a little less than 3%. Use this to enhance survivability of vulnerable frontliners or essential characters, especially with low HP and no DEF bonuses. Use this over +HP% when possible since it benefits more from healing. Otherwise, the same caveats as +HP% apply.

+Affliction rate up (+2%) is the best effect for Single-element builds. You want this on any ATK or DEF debuffer whose abilities ever miss. Debuffs missing is the #1 reason for wipes in content you can usually clear, so less missing = fewer wipes. Since DEF down is directly linked to damage output, 2% less chance of missing > +2% damage, which makes +Affliction rate superior to even +ATK for damage when equipped on your debuffers, and since debuffs typically have a team-wide effect you can multiply that by 5!

Drop rate up is valuable for farming. Assuming you like farming efficiently, having these in your progression gear isn't a waste. Make sure you keep all Rs with this, as they're free to unequip.

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

Of course, if your Soul is your bottleneck for Bursts this won't change that.

That's the problem, the Soul is your Bottleneck the majority of the time. Apart from Arthur and Morgan which no one really uses (though we'll see Morgan after her future buff) , Souls don't have self burst gauge buffs, while it will be really standard for your first and sometimes second Kami slots to have one of any sort. Double attack buff is slightly better than Attack up as a buff, but I wouldn't rate an SR with DA buff higher than a SSR with bad buffs, assuming those are already leveled.



As for the Standard vs Expert Lilim comparison, they use to have a close Grail average drop, but it seems they changed the drop rates this event and Expert has indeed become reasonably better

Originally Posted by SlickFenix

I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone address the fact that this piece of advice is garbage, and a lie.

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Standard has dropped between 1-3 Grails from what I have run. Expert has dropped 4-5 on every run I have done.

So when you do the math, Standard drops between 5-15, and Expert 12-15 for the same amount of AP. You have a much better average in Expert, making it the better one to run.

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Anyways...It always bugs me to see misinformation being thrown around as fact. Crunch the numbers and you can see Expert is better. However, if you're not strong enough for expert, then by all means run standard until you are.

The numbers I use is 1-3 for Standard, and 2-5 per Expert. So 2 average for Standard and 3.5 for Expert.

2 / 15 = 0.13 Grails/AP
3.5 / 25 = 0.14 Grails/AP (~8% increase over Standard)
(Or your assumption, 4.5 / 25 = 0.18 Grails/AP (~38% increase over Standard))

And thus, we can crunch the numbers and see that running Expert is a complete fucking waste of time. So right back at you, sir misinformation. I leave the burden of proof to you, prove that Expert can no longer drop 2-3 Grails and you'll be correct. It's not like I've done any since Pride's first run... which is what, five months ago? But nobody has corrected me on the forums, and to this day I see Union members cry in Discord about getting two Grails per Expert.

Though, Sfay and VeryVoodoo did just now say so, and they're saying specifically this event.

Originally Posted by Sfay

That's the problem, the Soul is your Bottleneck the majority of the time. Apart from Arthur and Morgan which no one really uses (though we'll see Morgan after her future buff) , Souls don't have self burst gauge buffs --

To be noted is that Mordred has combo+ passive, which is yet another good reason to use her.

Originally Posted by Slashley

To be noted is that Mordred has combo+ passive, which is yet another good reason to use her.

I also equip a weapon (Water SSR sword) on Mordred that adds Triple attack chance as a Burst effect. Once she Bursts, she's frequently not the bottleneck. Those with single-target Burst gauge buffs can also shift the bottleneck off the Soul.

I'm pretty sure Expert drops work like this now:

2 Grails for participating
+ 1 Grail for starting
+ 2 Grails for MVP and 1 Grail for vice-MVP

Therefore, it's impossible to get only 2 Grails from an Expert you started, even if you don't MVP nor vice-MVP (and most old players should be able to MVP easily and get 5 Grails anyways...)

Originally Posted by Sfay

I'm pretty sure Expert drops work like this now:

2 Grails for participating
+ 1 Grail for starting
+ 2 Grails for MVP and 1 Grail for vice-MVP

Therefore, it's impossible to get only 2 Grails from an Expert you started, even if you don't MVP nor vice-MVP (and most old players should be able to MVP easily and get 5 Grails anyways...)

I soloed two Expert Lilims, and both gave me five.

Too small of a sample size to say for sure, but it would be about freaking time they fixed that design oversight. I'll gladly take ~38% extra Grails any day.

I have a sample size of about ~40 experts run solo so far on this event, just on AAB. Every single one has dropped me 5 grails. I guess the other guy was angry you were giving info without actually testing it, cause you were wrong after all.