Thread: Kamihime General Discussion + Q&A

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

But why do this when you can put in similar effort and make a team that can clear 5/6 elements instead of just one?

You do it because it lets you kill all the matching elements faster and easier. A person that has maxed grids in several elements will always have an easier time clearing content, even on AAB for most if not all of it, as opposed to someone who only maxes 1 grid. For Union Events, those with the maxed appropriate grids for the elements will always do better/more than those without. Same for any content really.

While currently it doesn't matter besides just for completions sake since the current content in the game is easy enough and there's no competitive aspect, when rankings in Union Events come and content like Guild Order Quests, and Tower Events come, we'll see if those that were too lazy to work on their other grids besides their main one will still be able to keep up while claiming to still only use a mono-element.

Also out of curiosity, currently if someone isn't exclusively a fire main grid user for example, how well is that person doing right now against the disaster wind ragna? I'd actually be really interested to see a video or screenshot or something of anyone solo'ing the disaster ragna with an off-element team/grid. Would definitely pique my curiosity. But sure since it's a raid, one can always request help. But that means one needs help to begin with. And in the end, when players are using 2 grids of equal strength (let's say both are maxed grids) the ones using fire against this current wind ragna, or w/e has ele adv over what they face will always out damage the ones using off-element. Thus they will get the MVPs. Thus they get more mats, 5 frags instead of 2 for example. Thus they can farm w/e it is that they farm faster, like soul weapons. Easier. More efficiently.

^ I guess that's essentially what separates the thinking of single grid specialists from ones who max all grids. It's a different mindset. One is a casual approach that only seeks to be able to clear content, and goal met, period. There are no aspirations for min-max'ing, competing with others, or caring if they're slower at killing said content than others. Whereas the latter mindset takes all that into account and plans for future content also being harder than current content. I'd bet the majority of the game's population is definitely casual (probably over 90%), so most of them will never get to those latter stages anyway. Though it'd actually be really sad and funny at the same time, if there are dedicated players out there that actually got swayed by those that preach the lazy path, so they skipped all the element wpns that's not their main ele from events, only to find out in the end that they're unable to clear stuff like GO or Tower content. In the end it just comes down to efficiency. The ones who max all their grids will generally be able to kill content faster and more efficiently than those who only max one, and they won't have to wonder if they could have cleared such and such if they hadn't skipped all the event wpns for this and that.

But you do you. And I'll do me. And if you try to convince me now that a mono-element grid user will somehow become equally as strong/efficient as an all-element grid user come end game, don't bother because then I'll definitely know you're off your rocker.

Originally Posted by VeryVoodoo

Also out of curiosity, currently if someone isn't exclusively a fire main grid user for example, how well is that person doing right now against the disaster wind ragna? I'd actually be really interested to see a video or screenshot or something of anyone solo'ing the disaster ragna with an off-element team/grid. Would definitely pique my curiosity. But sure since it's a raid, one can always request help. But that means one needs help to begin with. And in the end, when players are using 2 grids of equal strength (let's say both are maxed grids) the ones using fire against this current wind ragna, or w/e has ele adv over what they face will always out damage the ones using off-element. Thus they will get the MVPs. Thus they get more mats, 5 frags instead of 2 for example. Thus they can farm w/e it is that they farm faster, like soul weapons. Easier. More efficiently.

LOL

(w)ww.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro_PSGuMBUU
by nonsensei!
Well, in my opinion his damage is great *-*

I am a new player and my main team is Dark. My only SSR Hime at the moment is Dark Amaterasu and I will focus on this team at first.
Maybe a Veteran who has a complete SSR Grid for his main element would focus on other elements but how strong will be that team if he/she doesen't get the -50% Attack & Def with the other elements?
How much damage will his/her team make with just elemental advantaged in comparison to a team with complete Debuffs and maybe a Burst Build with Shingen?

Originally Posted by Sora

LOL

ww.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro_PSGuMBUU
by nonsensei!

Please try to at least read/understand the post you're responding to. Here, let me highlight it in bold for you, so you might see this time:

"I'd actually be really interested to see a video or screenshot or something of anyone solo'ing the disaster ragna with an off-element team/grid. "

And to think I actually went to your link expecting to be impressed. Got me all excited for nothing. :facepalm: Icarus ragna is something I can solo on AAB, haha.

Originally Posted by Sora

LOL

ww.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro_PSGuMBUU
by nonsensei!

He said Wind Ragnarok, not shitty Ragna Icarus, its a whole diff lvl *facepalm*

Originally Posted by Sora

LOL

if he/she doesen't get the -50% Attack & Def with the other elements?

People on this forums are so biased towards the atk cap, its so funny XD for instance if you dont have SSRs you wont get 50% def down easily, which indeed increases your dmg by roughly 20% more than 40% def down (which is easy to get) vs a person with elemental adv who gets free 45% more dmg + 25% reduced damage, this 25% reduced damage in particular is what makes the atk cap not that appealing, i know plenty of top tier teams on nutaku AND dmm who dont even bother with atk cap at all (some barely have atk downs), reaching atk cap is a must for weak players and/or off element players cause they cant tank anything due to lacking the 25% reduced dmg (and dealing less dmg than what its needed cause no elemental adv).

Originally Posted by VeryVoodoo

You do it because it lets you kill all the matching elements faster and easier. A person that has maxed grids in several elements will always have an easier time clearing content, even on AAB for most if not all of it, as opposed to someone who only maxes 1 grid. For Union Events, those with the maxed appropriate grids for the elements will always do better/more than those without. Same for any content really.

While true, Sanahtlig makes guides on the idea that people DON'T need to spend 16+ hours a day on KH like you and I do.

And yet, people who input far, far less effort than us can clear stuff just fine. Are they going to be slightly slower without elemental advantage? Yeah, probably. But there are advantages to sticking to a single element. Anyone can build a Grid for every element but having a good team for every element is an entirely different story. A 140% Grid and a team of SRs and maybe a couple of random SSRs with elemental advantage probably won't hold a candle against a 140% Grid and a team of key SSRs from the element you spent 2-4 Miracle Tickets on, even if the Miracle Ticket team doesn't have elemental advantage.

I don't think Sanathlig has claimed that people who spend far too much time on KH are bad in any way - he simply doesn't see the value in spending so much time for grids that'll never be able support the kinds of teams one would hope from that element.

Originally Posted by VeryVoodoo

Also out of curiosity, currently if someone isn't exclusively a fire main grid user for example, how well is that person doing right now against the disaster wind ragna? I'd actually be really interested to see a video or screenshot or something of anyone solo'ing the disaster ragna with an off-element team/grid. Would definitely pique my curiosity.

Now, my Fire team certainly isn't good - just 3 random SSRs basically - I picked a Rag Disaster and duo'd it with random host. I picked Belial, so I thought I'd do pretty good but... I got demolished by the Water team the host was playing. I certainly didn't expect that.

Although that's not solo, it certainly should be doable. And once the other Ragnaroks come along, they'll probably (maybe? hopefully?) be even more off-element friendly due to debuffs actually being usable.

Originally Posted by Slashley

While true, Sanahtlig makes guides on the idea that people DON'T need to spend 16+ hours a day on KH like you and I do.
[...]
he simply doesn't see the value in spending so much time for grids that'll never be able support the kinds of teams one would hope from that element.

That's actually another common misconception I see thrown around occasionally. You definitely don't need to spend 16+ hours a day on KH (I do simply because I like wasting time at work ) to be able to collect & MLB wpns from events. I know because I've seen people in my union do so just spending 2-3 hours a day. They're able to MLB the SSR wpns and normally even 1 to 2 of the SR wpns. Now gem'chaing to SL those wpns up is a different story and does take time, but at least they'll have the choice of being able to do so in the future. Whereas I pity those that may've actually been dedicated to do so, that are then maybe guided to skip weapons not for their main element, because they're told they don't matter, and then they're hit with end-game content later. Hell forget the later content, I see some ppl who decided to only focus 1 element/grid already unable/struggling with some of the current content even with their main grids maxed or nearly maxed (120%+ assault for example).

Also hime compositions can change over time. There's always the possibility of jewels slowly filling up your rosters, especially if you play long enough while max'ing all attainable jewels from every daily/quest/event/crossover/login etc... I know this, because I'm living proof of it. For the first 69 lvls, I didn't have a single SSR hime to my name. I now have 11, and I've only ever bought 2 things in this game so far, 1 miracle ticket, and the $30 kami guaranteed ticket (which luckily gave me 2! SSR himes, haha) that came with that 1st miracle. Anyway imagine how funny it would be, if someone lucked out over the course of a few weeks and suddenly got 2 or 3 cores SSRs, but alas they skipped farming all those pesky wpns for that element because it wasn't their main. Now they're permanently behind, or perhaps even gimped irreparably. But hey, as I myself said above, I'd guesstimate around 90% or even more of the game's population to be pretty casual, so none of this really matters for them. However, one method definitely leads to a stronger path, and it's always tiresome when the deniers claim otherwise or ask stupid things like why it matters.

Originally Posted by VeryVoodoo

That's actually another common misconception I see thrown around occasionally. You definitely don't need to spend 16+ hours a day on KH (I do simply because I like wasting time at work ) to be able to collect & MLB wpns from events.--

Nobody said a thing about collecting weapons or Eidolons, though.

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

You're going to have to explain how this would be the optimal route (least time/money investment) for a typical player. I've yet to see a good argument for it, especially if you only have SSRs for 1 or 2 elements.

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

But why do this when you can put in similar effort and make a team that can clear 5/6 elements instead of just one?


No, it's not. It's about making the best use of limited resources, including time. Just because a strategy works doesn't mean it's optimal.

Let me rephrase the question. Under what circumstances is it better to invest equally in teams for all 6 elements vs. investing primarily in one? And under what circumstances is it worse? In what timeframes?

Originally Posted by Sora

LOL

(w)ww.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro_PSGuMBUU
by nonsensei!
Well, in my opinion his damage is great *-*

I am a new player and my main team is Dark. My only SSR Hime at the moment is Dark Amaterasu and I will focus on this team at first.
Maybe a Veteran who has a complete SSR Grid for his main element would focus on other elements but how strong will be that team if he/she doesen't get the -50% Attack & Def with the other elements?
How much damage will his/her team make with just elemental advantaged in comparison to a team with complete Debuffs and maybe a Burst Build with Shingen?

Originally Posted by Slashley

Nobody said a thing about collecting weapons or Eidolons, though.

Well now I think that you're maybe just being willfully obtuse? Otherwise what's the extra effort that the mono-preachers are talking about other than collecting & mlb'ing wpns for every grid?

So on another topic:
Remember the ousei/vigorous weapon skill? Do more damage when your remaining % HP is higher? Apparently that's not added to assault (nor element, for that matter). It's a % bonus to damage (dunno how it'd interact with other otherBuffs type stuff). The large version at lv 20 is about +15.5% damage at full HP. The small version at lv 20 is about +8.5% damage at full HP.