Thread: Kamihime General Discussion + Q&A

Why would anyone solo Ragnarok Raid battles? It's a waste of time. It's the sort of thing people do just to show they can. All that counts is being able to shave off enough HP to get the MVP. Doesn't take a perfect team with elemental advantage to do that. I've joined 2 Wind Disaster Ragnaroks with half-baked Water teams I slapped together (one where I used Mordred and mostly spammed debuffs that mostly missed) and got the MVP each time. And it's not like BP is a super-limited resource.

And in the end, when players are using 2 grids of equal strength (let's say both are maxed grids) the ones using fire against this current wind ragna, or w/e has ele adv over what they face will always out damage the ones using off-element.

Yes, if you put in 6x the effort and resources over the course of 1-2 years you'll do marginally more damage than those who put in 1x the effort and resources. Is that the point you're trying to make?

You do it because it lets you kill all the matching elements faster and easier.

You only need to farm for every element if your strategy relies on having teams for 6 elements that are endgame-ready. Take Guild Orders, for example. Let's assume your goal is to farm orihalcum for weapon final limit breaks. Sure, maybe you can farm more orihalcum per event. But because you run 6 teams, you NEED more orihalcum than someone who runs only 1-2. All you did was increase the speed of your treadmill. Same applies to Tower events. Union event rankings rely more on time commitment than anything else, and rewards follow the same pattern.

In any case, you ignored the specific questions I asked in favor of a sort of long diatribe. While it was interesting, my questions remain unanswered. I'm not even asking for justification at this point. Just answer the questions. We can work from there.

The difference between you and me is that I try to write for a general audience. The optimal solution for one player may be sub-optimal for another. I don't have the luxury of assuming that my audience exactly shares my conception of how much time and money one should sink into this game. Even when I don't agree with a certain perspective, I have to understand it to be able to provide a set of alternatives given different sets of premises--which is why we're having this discussion.

And now you're adding fuel to fire...

アアアもう知らないだから

Originally Posted by Slashley

Anyway.
The next step is leveling them up - and this is where the weeks and weeks of the extra hours comes into play.

I don't think Sanathlig said anything about you not gathering weapons. Let's take a step back.

Wait what? The most time intensive-thing about grids in general is mlb'ing all the related wpns from that event. Just collecting the mats to do so, to exchange for them should normally give you enough fodder to lvl them up or at least get them somewhat near the max. And with how frequent Union Events are now, all the excess fodder from that should top off w/e little remaining you may have left.

As for SL'ing, the main inconvenience with that is the way the current inventory system works. Hopefully a future auto-sell feature should make that less boring/cumbersome. However, normally any event gets you about 2 relevant wpns maybe (1 SSR and 1 SR). So over the course of an event and any down time after, you usually have 8-10 days to get just 2 wpns done. Again, there's two different mindsets at work here: 1) the lazy way, which is to avoid doing all this and maybe pack it all away for the future or the 2) the diligent way which is to finish work on them on that event. So of course, if you're trying to SL an entire grid at once, it will seem a daunting task, but hey, everyone's gotta start somewhere at some point right? Keep in mind you're the one who threw out the 16+ hrs a day number. That seems to imply to me that those who spend 3 hours a day wouldn't be able to do the same, which is not true, because there are ppl that keep up in grids doing just that by working on it the diligent way instead of the lazy way.

Originally Posted by Slashley

This is what started this:
As far as I can see, there wasn't anything about skipping events entirely at any point. That was just you shooting off a tangent into a random direction.

Random direction? Maybe the inferences in those posts aren't clear, so I can explain it to you. Someone said you need Sol as a healer for Thunder. What I posted was that if you have weak grids or are new to the game, then yes you'd need off-element healers since you can't kill stuff due to the lack of dmg. I then said if you have a good enough grid (i.e, like mine), you don't need an off-element healer like Sol, cause you can even kill even r4 acc quests because you can nuke them down to where it never gets drawn out with your ele adv + maxed grid (the ele adv being +45% extra dmg, and taking -25% reduced dmg if that's not clear).

Someone else then quoted me and said that's not optimal because what if you only have SSR himes in one element, and I replied that with a maxed grid and ele adv, you're able to do so even with a SR team. They then replied it's not optimal to do that for every element when you can do it for one. So you're saying the part they're saying is not optimal is not in fact having a max'ed grid? Because that's exactly what they're saying. Because it's surely not the ele adv part that they're claiming is not optimal/time-consuming, since that actually confers one of the most optimal strategies/benefits to clearing content in the game. So regardless of how you try to obfuscate the issue, the topic at hand comes back to grids.

Originally Posted by Slashley

The point is, for those who don't want to spend a ridiculous amount of time on the game - not something I want to do, but hey? - they can focus on just one element and be able to use that on all or at least 5/6 elements.

So once they focus on and finish max'ing that first element grid, you're saying the mono-preachers above are then saying you move on to max the next grid and so forth? Cause if that's what you say they're saying, then there's no problem at all, since that's what I completely agree with. However, with the way they're now saying you don't even need to farm Orihalcum for the grids of 5 elements when you can do it for just one, etc... it seems to suggest otherwise, and that they are in fact saying it's ok to focus on only 1 grid. So can you explain why a mono-preacher would even need to farm and mlb all the extra elements' wpns? Doesn't make sense then does it? Might as well ask why not only take part in events where your mono-focused setup had the adv, and skip the other 5 element events where you don't. You seem to be doing a lot of back-peddling for the mono-preachers that don't even care, or seem to not even agree with what you're telling me. They should nick-name you the damage control guy.

Anyway do you see why that's a dangerous method to try and follow, especially if you plan to play to late game content? Thankfully, most dedicated players already know the folly of this. However brand new players who might otherwise be dedicated enough to work on it properly to the end, might end up thinking it's ok to just do 1 grid and then stop. I even some veteran players that only focused on 1 element already having trouble with some of the current content in the game, simply because they're not able to whale all the needed SSRs to make that work for when they're off-element or when things like debuffs don't work, etc... Whereas they'd struggle a lot less if they had proper grids for other elements as well and then able to go in combined with the +45% ele adv dmg, and -25% reduced incoming dmg. Anyway you slice it or try to obfuscate it, if you're planning for long-term, only going with 1 grid/team and then stopping ends up crippling/handicapping yourself against those that will max all the elements.

You make a lot of assumptions. I'd stick to what people actually say and ask if you're unclear.

The most time intensive-thing about grids in general is mlb'ing all the related wpns from that event.

MLB'ing weapons doesn't take long. Maybe an hour for Advent and Union events? It's mostly just time going through the menus. Raid events are a pain, but they're about to become much less time-consuming. Honestly, I usually spend most of my gameplay time on Accessory Quests and related drudge work. Besides that? Just navigating the terrible interface.

Why would I farm weapons for elements I don't need? Just to keep my options open mostly. Also, most events give useful rewards besides the SSR weapons.

Anon asking about Tyr here. I was just asking a question, why are people arguing? Are they always like this?

I wouldn't say always, but it happens at times. It's a particular tangent.

Did you see my reply? The one that started off with 'Tyr's ok' and then goes on about 'use Tyr until you get X'.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I wouldn't say always, but it happens at times. It's a particular tangent.

Did you see my reply? The one that started off with 'Tyr's ok' and then goes on about 'use Tyr until you get X'.

Yeah, I saw it. Thanks for that. I was just surprised that my question suddenly sparked a debate like that, since I don't visit here much.

Your question about Tyr was already answered in detail. She's better than nothing but not terribly useful by herself, and there are many alternatives that fill the same role. She's not someone I would build a team around.

well, joining sanah's ragnarok disaster... holy crap, both ambush and sniper shot worked? and another debuff on top of that..
that's like lower than the odds of finding a ssr kami

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

MLB'ing weapons doesn't take long. Maybe an hour for Advent and Union events? It's mostly just time going through the menus. Raid events are a pain, but they're about to become much less time-consuming. Honestly, I usually spend most of my gameplay time on Accessory Quests and related drudge work. Besides that? Just navigating the terrible interface.

Why would I farm weapons for elements I don't need? Just to keep my options open mostly. Also, most events give useful rewards besides the SSR weapons.

Wait, exactly. So you're say MLB'ing a weapon doesn't take long. Though I honestly feel like you're pulling a number like 1 hour out of your... let's say magic hat. Hell, I'll even tack on an extra hour being the generous guy that I am. And you say events give other useful rewards that you'd complete anyway which means if you're max clearing the events anyway, you usually get enough fodder mats to get your wpn damn near max level, while union events help to completely max everything.



Now as for SL'ing, if you're like me and already have 10+ pages of SR4 SL'ing fodder like above, SL'ing a new weapon to max takes maybe 5 minutes or less. Again, it's mostly just clicking through menus and screens. But of course, the typical player probably doesn't have everything pre-set at SR4 etc... so let's tack on another 30 mins to an hour for them to go through the gemcha process to get their SRs up to SL4. So with that 2 hrs to mlb + 1 hr to SL, a typical wpn takes what, 3 hours extra give or take? I'll even up the total to 5-6 hours for the mere mortals that are not as strong as you of course (yet unwilling or unable to solo a measly disaster ragna, which by the way, aren't they supposed to be easier than things like GO, Tower, Acc R5 and such?). Now spread that 6 hrs total over the 7-8 days of that event's span, and that's still less than an hour per day! Wait that certainly doesn't sound like a lot of extra time or effort... Shocking!! So are you contradicting yourself by saying that it indeed doesn't take long.

Because if someone can do this by playing less than an hour a day, and even farm up Disaster SR mats during the down time after an event, then why is it recommended that they indeed not do so. Simply because it doesn't match their main element? Simply because that doesn't jive with your philosophy? Help me understand, because it certainly doesn't sound like a lot of extra effort to me. And as you say, it keeps their options open. Which allows them to be much more viable/flexible for later content. Which allows them to take advantage of that whopping ele adv bonus of +45% atk & -25% reduced incoming dmg if they feel like it. And with those maxed grids they now have, it doesn't take much more than -40% def, -30% atk debuffs which you can achieve with even just a soul+yata for example, to start clearing content at a faster rate than with an off-element. And that's if all your himes have no debuffs, which normally isn't the case for long time players, as most will at least have a cpl viable debuffers here and there, so those debuff #s only go up or allow for soul flexibility. Again all this for something that takes you 3 or less extra hours total over the course of an entire event or takes the typical average joe slightly longer. Is that the too much extra effort advice you pass along to other players then?

Also to those that act like it's the end of the world when there are dissenting opinions, please calm down. A forum is a place for discourse, and yes, even dissenting opinions if you're backing it up with reasoning and data. In the end, no one's forcing advice on you... simply offering differing viewpoints. Such discourse can often offer insights to some people, and they're free to follow whichever point based on its merits.