Thread: Kamihime General Discussion + Q&A

Once again considering Joan + Ares vs. Mordred + Raguel

Originally Posted by Slashley

Not at all - many mobs from wave1 are really useful to BP. Like the second mob in Wind if you have enough damage to kill two mobs in four turns. A new player probably doesn't, so it's probably better off to not use (as this means that you get less "free turns" when the mobs are just buffing up on a buff that doesn't stack).

BP buys you one overdrive turn on 1 opponent, Ares nuke does about as much damage as an entire attack turn, making it much easier to kill off the first ones.

Originally Posted by Slashley

In Wind wave2 Wind, Joan can either damage cut the first, small AoE or you can wait to cut the buffed AoE - but not both. And you'll be in trouble if you're not about to kill the mid-boss when the third one is approaching. Again, BP giving you WAY more turns until this soft-limit comes up.

Wind wave 2 has 3 Orbs, so you're just increasing it from 4 turns per OD to 5. Sure it helps, but on the other hand, with joan you have 5% more atk down, which also helps and tbh, if you lack the damage to kill this boss in 8 turns, then you're doomed for wave 3 anyways.

Originally Posted by Slashley

Overall, I'd rather have BP in all AQ content than Joan's damage cut. There are certainly ones where it isn't particularly useful (like Dark wave1 for example), but these ones don't gain anything from damage cut either.

While this on it's own is true, if you can replace Raguel by someone way better, then Joan wins hands down.

Originally Posted by nonsensei

I'm still wondering how we ended up discussing AQ4 stuff if we're talking about a new guy.

Not sure! But people are going to want to do AQ4 ASAP, so it's not like it's entirely unrelated.

Originally Posted by blubbergott

BP buys you one overdrive turn on 1 opponent, Ares nuke does about as much damage as an entire attack turn, making it much easier to kill off the first ones.

That's true, roughly ~4.6 attacks, though exact number depends on Grid (this is with 80% Assault). Bonus points for Heph who takes this to a whopping ~6.4! And Awakened Ares will hit far, far harder.

However, keep in mind that Ares' nuke goes all over the place. This damage is not to a single enemy, but spread across multiple enemies. This might not matter against Wind wave1 since the mobs are identical, though it depends on are your debuffs AoE or not.

Originally Posted by nonsensei

Wind wave 2 has 3 Orbs, so you're just increasing it from 4 turns per OD to 5. Sure it helps, but on the other hand, with joan you have 5% more atk down, which also helps and tbh, if you lack the damage to kill this boss in 8 turns, then you're doomed for wave 3 anyways.

I'm... not exactly sold on that doom-say. The amount of damage you can output when you save up your abilities + Full Burst to the start of the wave3 Rage phase is much higher than one might expect. I'm... not entirely sure if failed to meet that DPS check in the midboss also mean automatic loss against the actual boss.

For example, it's fully possible that you absolutely need to use your cooldowns against wave1 AND a full burst, because wave1 is DANGEROUS when you're fighting against 3 mobs with +150% Atk buffs. At best your Atk debuffs taking them down from 250% -> 200%, so hardly even be a notable difference... that's why I fucking HATED Wind AQ as it was such a complete pain in the ass until I got Amaterasu. So anyway - after you're entirely dry from wave1, you then have 8~10 turns to unleash hell on the midboss. 8 turns to Full Burst is... unreliable.

But once you clear the mid-boss, the last boss isn't all that bad. Unless you're fighting with elemental DISadvantage, the damage output of the boss isn't particularly threatening. You do need a fair amount DPS to clear the rage phase, but it's certainly not that bad assuming you can get a clean transition off. Hell, I used to let BP expire from the boss just to that I could better control transitions. It took me easily 15-20 turns to hit Rage, and yet I cleared Rage in time, at most eating one Overdrive.

Ares also have the ability to burst by turn 4 if you get the RNG right.

BP stops being relevant for AQ4 when you have reached certain grid level. You'd prefer for boss to OD earlier because you can do a lot of damage to push boss to rage in 3 turn, so eating non rage OD is the better option than rage OD.

What often overlooked is that Joan also has a DA buff that have a quite decent proc rate.

At the end of the day, whether you run Joan + Ares or Modred + Raquel depends on who you have for next 2 slots and where your grid is currently at. Do I have enough damage to not need BP so I can run all SSR lineup to maximise my burst damage? Do I not have enough damage that I need BP to reduce how often I take overdrive?

Team building is often regarded as simple exercise. It's probably not as simple as many people would've liked.