Thread: Kamihime General Discussion + Q&A

Hi, I'm a new player. I read through Sanahtlig's guide multiple times and browse through several thread on the forum, yet i ended up conflicted about the informations.
Everybody say if you roll a 100% eidolon you're set for the long run (even without any SSR), yet there are several post where people claim certain kamihime parties are "not good" even though they include multiple core SSR of the same element. I get the impression you need a full SSR team of same element for a "good" team based on these post.

1. So how long does that 100% eidolon is enough? Do you need those SSR himes for a good party at the endgame?
2. Is it safe to assume that after i finish with rerolls, i wont see any SSR (based on f2p), and even if i get one, i need to be extremely lucky to get one with the corresponding element?
3. What about 100% eidolon vs multiple core SSR hime? Assuming extreme misfortune, you may not even get important SR's for your element, let alone SSR. Which means full R team with 20-30% debuffs with bound and inflexible soul (or flexible soul at the cost of less debuff).
Does that 100% eidolon compensate enough for all the lacking in hime? What about survivablity, 100% eidolon doesnt compensate for that so what are the options on that front if you lack hime?
4. Assuming all the above mentions, doesnt that mean i should reroll until i get at least a 100% eidolon + core hime, coz missing either would severly limit the team, and free players cant get them after reroll (talk about being between a rock and a hard place)

Thanks ahead for the replies and advices

Originally Posted by Nelerion

Hi, I'm a new player. I read through Sanahtlig's guide multiple times and browse through several thread on the forum, yet i ended up conflicted about the informations.
Everybody say if you roll a 100% eidolon you're set for the long run (even without any SSR), yet there are several post where people claim certain kamihime parties are "not good" even though they include multiple core SSR of the same element. I get the impression you need a full SSR team of same element for a "good" team based on these post.

1. So how long does that 100% eidolon is enough? Do you need those SSR himes for a good party at the endgame?
2. Is it safe to assume that after i finish with rerolls, i wont see any SSR (based on f2p), and even if i get one, i need to be extremely lucky to get one with the corresponding element?
3. What about 100% eidolon vs multiple core SSR hime? Assuming extreme misfortune, you may not even get important SR's for your element, let alone SSR. Which means full R team with 20-30% debuffs with bound and inflexible soul (or flexible soul at the cost of less debuff).
Does that 100% eidolon compensate enough for all the lacking in hime? What about survivablity, 100% eidolon doesnt compensate for that so what are the options on that front if you lack hime?
4. Assuming all the above mentions, doesnt that mean i should reroll until i get at least a 100% eidolon + core hime, coz missing either would severly limit the team, and free players cant get them after reroll (talk about being between a rock and a hard place)

Thanks ahead for the replies and advices

1. A 100% eido makes your life easier. This game is still about grids & how you set your team up. Rerolling a 100% eido serves that purpose since while you missed a lot of events (and hence missed out a lot of chances to build your grid), you get the chance to close that gap by starting off with that 100% eido. It won't put you in the same position as a veteran with well-rounded grids by any means, but it helps a lot. And in the long run, it's still an advantage over them.

2. I wouldn't call it safe to assume so, but yeah, you might want to keep your expectations low. There are some quite lucky f2p guys out there, but the unluckier ones only get a really few SSR KHs & they aren't guaranteed to be on their main team, certainly.

3. The thing about a core hime is that core members of a team change with time. They will still be nice even in the future, but on contrary a 100% eidolon will still be the same 100% eido over time. It also makes it easier for you to find friends.

4. It surely is a nice thing to get.. if you have the patience. Most people get fed up by trying to roll for a 100% alone. More often than not, it's going to be the only SSR on the account. Trying to get another SSR with it, and even on the same element + top it with the hime being actual core gonna take massive time & effort (most likely). If you're up to that, by all means, go ahead.


In conclusion: 100% eido isn't a free pass to endgame content, but gonna make your progress smoother. Multiple core himes of the same element is also a nice way to start out, but that's probably even less likely than a 100% eido of RNG's choice & yet, those himes will fall out of meta sooner or later.

'Endgame' effectively assumes both 100%+ eidolon and a selection of SSRs at the same time. So effectively, your starting roll will not set you up for eternity. That said, I think that for those rerolling, a 100%+ eidolon is strongly preferred over at least two good SSRs of the same element. I'll explain my reasoning for this position (which may or may not necessarily match others' logic). This won't directly answer your questions, but I hope that seeing the reasoning would let you infer what my answers would've been anyway. Except for that last question. My answer to that is, 100% eidolon + a highly desired SSR or two would be ideal, but that comes with quite a bit more expected rerolling time compared to shooting for just a 100% eidolon. I don't know how much tolerance you expect to have for rerolling :/

Short version: Power gap, probability, and power creep.

Longer version:
1. Power gap - the difference in impact between a 100%+ eidolon and event eidolons is both more straightforward and larger than the difference in impact between a typical* SSR and a good SR. Also, possession of a 100%+ eidolon makes it a lot easier to add friends with 100%+ eidolons of their own. That is, if you don't have a 100% eidolon, you don't expect someone with a 100% to accept your request. So you're effectively dependent on random non-friends showing up as well as people already on your friends list suddenly rolling a 100% eidolon and staying friends with you. So part of the time, the gap further becomes the difference between double 100%+ eidolons and 1xEvent/1x100% or 2xEvent.
*of course, not all SSR are created equal. Some can be rather batshit broken good.

2. Probability - it's hard to roll a 100%+ eidolon. If you happen to roll an SSR, and that SSR ends up being an eidolon, odds are that it'll be something that sucks until a few limit breaks later. On the other hand, if that SSR ends up being a kamihime, it'll usually be some sort of upgrade to varying degree over to an SR of that element. That is, it's easier to eventually roll some random collection of SSR kamihime than it is to roll a 100%+ eidolon.

3. Power creep - the only things that will beat a 100%+ eidolon are next year's 100%+ eidolons. That is, the current set we see now are 100% at 0* and go up by 5% with each limit break (with Managarmr and Anubis being dependent on the number of sub eidolons matching their element). Next year, we'll start seeing the release of similar for the other 4 elements. Hanuman (wind)/Nidhoggr (thunder)/Leviathan (water)/Cerberus (fire) also start at +100% element at 0*, but they go up to 120% based on your sub eidolons. Each limit break raises the floor and ceiling by 5% (correct me if I'm wrong here). So if none of your sub eidolons match element, then they ought to provide the same bonus as the old set of 100%+ eidolons with the same number of limit breaks. But they become better the more you match (4% per matching sub eidolon).
So there is power creep on the horizon even for eidolons. That said, the old set of 100% eidolons will still be plenty strong, especially if you don't like having your selection of sub eidolons restricted to a particular element.
For kamihime on the other hand? Power creep is real and constant, as expected from these sort of games. Got to get people to constantly spend, right? And the consistent side of power creep is expressed through kamihime design. What's core now may not necessarily remain core later.

Hime obsolation and power creep is an interesting point that i didnt consider. Will that happen? I didnt check jp wiki and its hard to imagine himes like Amaterasu/Sol/Ryu-oh/Cthulhu get replaced. They got their place in core hime by bringing immense amount of utility. To replace them they would need to release even stronger himes like with 30-40% debuff or himes with 4 active ability, otherwise new himes doesnt replace them, just give an equal substitute.
As for dmg himes, yeah its pretty realistic new dmg himes get even more dmg and new interesting mechanic, but i'm more interested in utility when i build teams (in all games). I will opt for versatile or endurance build if its possible, and only go burst only if the game force me to do.

In conclusion: 100% eido isn't a free pass to endgame content, but gonna make your progress smoother. Multiple core himes of the same element is also a nice way to start out, but that's probably even less likely than a 100% eido of RNG's choice & yet, those himes will fall out of meta sooner or later.

You missed my main concern. Im not concerned about easy or hard way to endgame. Im concerned about bottleneck when i reach endgame in the far future. I understand 100% eidolon is indispensable, coz its the only reliable way to boost elemental dmg. Does SSR hime also indispensable for a good team, which force me to reroll for both, coz otherwise there's no garantee i get SSR hime for endgame?
As for the definition of "good team", im obviously not planning to compete for top ranks as free player. I would consider a team good at endgame if it can comfortably earn all individual (not competitive) rewards for event, and clear all solo content.
I guess either way i'll reroll 200 more just to reach nice number (currently at 800). Thanks for reply.

Yesterday I was talking with some DMM veterans who were saying that himes like Sol (clear example) are being replaced because of this fast meta. Every element can burst in turn 2 or 3, also saying that Light can burst in turn 1.

I don't quite like that "Meta" DMM is enforcing, but eh... that's how it is.

Originally Posted by Nelerion

As for the definition of "good team", im obviously not planning to compete for top ranks as free player. I would consider a team good at endgame if it can comfortably earn all individual (not competitive) rewards for event, and clear all solo content.
I guess either way i'll reroll 200 more just to reach nice number (currently at 800). Thanks for reply.

You don't need a 100% eido or even SSR teams to clear all content in the game; yes that's including all of the hardest end-game content currently. So if that's your primary concern, just be aware that all solo content in the game can easily be cleared if you work properly on your grids. All the challenges/missions/off-element teams, etc... can be done if you have proper grids for it.

That being said, if you're just now starting, it will be a long, long while before you build "proper" grids since you missed a majority of the events for them so far. So a 100% helps bridge the powergap between you and those with grids a little bit. In the end, you will still need to grind a lot to ever catch up. As for SSR himes, you're much more likely to get those even as a free player, simply out of jewels eventually. Whereas the chances of a 100% seem to be weighted to be lower in general. To put it in a way to answer your question: if you're farming jewels actively and don't miss any usually, even as a f2p player, you'll eventually be able to snag some core himes to build teams around.

From what DMM players say, the 'meta' or ideal direction to build toward shifts more into something like 'hit hard and hit fast/burst frequently'. That is, at the top end, you're focusing more towards killing quickly, which lowers the value of skillsets geared more towards survival. I like to think of it as, first you try kill something before it kills you, but if that doesn't work out, then you switch to outliving it.

For example, for water, I think that Cthulhu loses value once Vohu Manah comes out. Vohu Manah offers a huge chunk of fire atk/water resist debuff (30%) and can build up her own burst gauge faster (her abi1 gives her a 2 turn guaranteed triple atk buff and her abi2 is 'do a normal attack'). Cthulhu's offering less atk reduction, less def reduction, and her abi1 eating an orb every 9 turns is less valued compared to what else Vohu Manah has.