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  1. #8381
    ty.

    Damn, then that means I have wasted a lot of resources leveling weapons I shouldnt u_u


  2. #8382

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    Quote Originally Posted by miguelsalvador81 View Post
    ty.

    Damn, then that means I have wasted a lot of resources leveling weapons I shouldnt u_u
    Don't worry. I've been saying this a lot lately, but Kamihime is a marathon. Whatever mistakes you make in the first few weeks - or even months - won't matter much in the long run.

    The most important thing for becoming more powerful is doing the 30-minute Gem Quest dailies as much as possible so that you can spend 100k on the Gem Gacha every day. That will get changed to just 15k in one or three months, so things will get far easier. So even if you've wasted resources on pure Defender weapons, no worries. It won't hurt you all that much in the long run.

  3. #8383
    Would someone mind explaining phantom weapon grids? I looked on the jp wiki but it doesn't have much description that I could understand on the first skill which I assume makes all weapons of that type in the grid stronger...?

    Is this bonus enough to make up for potentially worse stats to meet the criteria for the weapon? Do these phantom weapons have limit breaks like standard ones?

    Just trying to prepare for what's coming instead of trying to catch up afterwards.

  4. #8384

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    Quote Originally Posted by tidalwake View Post
    Would someone mind explaining phantom weapon grids? I looked on the jp wiki but it doesn't have much description that I could understand on the first skill which I assume makes all weapons of that type in the grid stronger...?
    Yup. If you have 5 (or more) weapons of the same type as the Phantom weapon, then they all gain a big bunch of base stats. Plus, you activate the skill of the weapon, which is pretty strong. Except for Guns, which is like, 45% HP. Because fuck Thunder.
    Quote Originally Posted by tidalwake View Post
    Is this bonus enough to make up for potentially worse stats to meet the criteria for the weapon? Do these phantom weapons have limit breaks like standard ones?
    That's a good question. Since the Phantom weapons generally don't have Assault in them, you trade Assault for a big bunch of base stats. Secondly, those who aren't megawhales don't exactly get to choose what is in their Grids, so it doesn't seem all that impressive for most. Yet, people keep talking as if the Phantom Grids will be the second coming of God.

    Meh, I guess I'll find out when I finally get my more advanced damage calc done which can calculate Phantom weapons as well.

  5. #8385
    Quote Originally Posted by Slashley View Post
    Don't worry. I've been saying this a lot lately, but Kamihime is a marathon. Whatever mistakes you make in the first few weeks - or even months - won't matter much in the long run.

    The most important thing for becoming more powerful is doing the 30-minute Gem Quest dailies as much as possible so that you can spend 100k on the Gem Gacha every day. That will get changed to just 15k in one or three months, so things will get far easier. So even if you've wasted resources on pure Defender weapons, no worries. It won't hurt you all that much in the long run.
    Wait what? They're reducing the amount you can spend on Gem Gacha to only 15k a day? That will really slow down the ability to build weapon grids.

    Better work on that while I still can...


    Dejnov.

  6. #8386

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dejnov View Post
    Wait what? They're reducing the amount you can spend on Gem Gacha to only 15k a day? That will really slow down the ability to build weapon grids.

    Better work on that while I still can...
    You misunderstand. Second Anniversary update - which we'll either get mid-Feb (Nutaku second anniversary date) or in April (DMM second anniversary date) - will bring a huge amount of changes to us.

    The most important one are the Gem gacha changes: Two more R Hime added to Gem Gacha pool per element. Single-pull Gem gacha is removed. Your daily free pull is a 10 pull. You're only allowed 15 pulls with Gems. And they removed N grade items from Gem Gacha, so your 16 pulls will get you as much stuff as your 100 pulls do today.

    It's a HUGE quality of life increase, as the amount of time you need to spend on that shit every single goddamn day is reduced by a lot.

  7. #8387
    So can you have multiple phantom weapons and get the benefit? Say i had a grid with 6 swords and 2 phantoms? Would they both be "activated"? Or is the rarity of them such that it's unlikely?

  8. #8388

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    Quote Originally Posted by tidalwake View Post
    So can you have multiple phantom weapons and get the benefit? Say i had a grid with 6 swords and 2 phantoms? Would they both be "activated"? Or is the rarity of them such that it's unlikely?
    Null weapons don't stack in their effects iirc, so it's only practical to run 1.

    On another note, you only need 5 of the same weapon type to run a null grid, the null weapon considers itself as fulfilling the 6 same weapon type criteria.

  9. #8389
    Unregistered Guest
    Null weapons have 2 effects:

    The first improves all weapons of their type by 1.3x atk and 1.45x HP
    The second act like skills from normal weapons, but requires 6 weapons of that type in the grid (including themselves) to activate. The actual skill depends on the type of the weapon in question. The best ones are glaives (Assault++/Barrage++) typically used in water grids, spears (Assault++/Defender++) typically used in fire grids, and hammers (Assault++++). Bows are also decent (Assault++/Stinger++).

    For the main three in particular, it's basically a no brainer if you can meet the requirements since they have good skills and will give you a ton more stats. The other weapons are more situational and depends on your grid/stats and what you want/need.

  10. #8390
    Quote Originally Posted by Slashley View Post
    Yup. If you have 5 (or more) weapons of the same type as the Phantom weapon, then they all gain a big bunch of base stats. Plus, you activate the skill of the weapon, which is pretty strong. Except for Guns, which is like, 45% HP. Because fuck Thunder.That's a good question. Since the Phantom weapons generally don't have Assault in them, you trade Assault for a big bunch of base stats. Secondly, those who aren't megawhales don't exactly get to choose what is in their Grids, so it doesn't seem all that impressive for most. Yet, people keep talking as if the Phantom Grids will be the second coming of God.

    Meh, I guess I'll find out when I finally get my more advanced damage calc done which can calculate Phantom weapons as well.
    From what I've heard, the stat increase is 30% (EDIT: to attack, to be more specific) including to the effects of +99, so having 4 additional weapons of the same type should already roughly make up for the base stats missing from a null weapon, even if we went out of our way to assume that null weapon's contributing 0 (which it obviously isn't). The question then is the to the bonus effect, which varies by null weapon. Most notable is the bonus effect of the Catastrophe Spear, which grants Strength (L) = 16% char. atk / 16% char. HP, which makes the spear an easy choice since even something small from 6 weapons getting bonuses like an additional 3000 attack (which is possible with 4 weapons of 2500 attack) is an overall improvement of 4.29% of something ridiculously high prior like 70,000 attack, whereas 5% assault contributes less than 2.5% after hitting an easy 100% character attack.

    Harder to gauge are the weapons which do not come with assault. Assuming the opportunity cost is an FLB Assault (L) (which I feel like it probably won't, but let's just go ahead and assume so), this would correspond to 21% char. atk. If we assume a baseline of 160% char. atk without it (which may be unrealistic, but bare with me here), then this corresponds to an 8.08% increase in damage. If we assume 70,000 attack as a baseline with 6 weapons of the same type, then these six weapons would need 3141 ATK on average to match that increase.

    The next question is if 70,000 ATK is a bullshit number. The answer is... kind of (?); it's pretty hard to hit for sure, but one video we found of a fire megawhale who runs 3 Ascalons (2 FLB, all with +99, total 7 +99's in the entire grid) and a null sword (which gives Avalanche (L), thus no assault) barely hits 70,000 ATK on Uriel AW and Acala AW (as of Oct 27, 2018). Okay, so this should tell us that 70,000 as a baseline is definitely too high, but that 65,000 ATK is still plausible, but that it's really, really hard. At the same time, he is running 158% character attack, which is matching our model. Therefore, if we do the calculation with 65,000 attack, the average needed goes down to 2917 ATK, which is a bit high (but possible for Ascalons of all things). Lowering the baseline further to 60,000 attack yields an average of 2692 ATK, which is finally reasonable since the null weapon itself will have something around this after +99.

    In conclusion, it's clear that the null weapons which possess a dual skill containing assault are almost certainly going to be good if they can be properly utilized while it's a lot harder to gauge how much a dual skill without assault is going to fare, making it seem like a specific set up needs to be assumed to tell for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cobblemaniac View Post
    Null weapons don't stack in their effects iirc, so it's only practical to run 1.

    On another note, you only need 5 of the same weapon type to run a null grid, the null weapon considers itself as fulfilling the 6 same weapon type criteria.
    From what I've heard, only the null weapon's stat bonus don't stack while the extra skills stack, but in any case, their drop rate is low enough that getting 4 copies of the same weapon you actually want already takes an asinine amount of time.

    But just for fun, assuming the stacking of the second effect is true, we can talk about the meme 9 null spear grid which allegedly grants 144% Character Attack / 144% Character HP to all characters. Then we can run SSR Diabolos as the main and side Eidolon, who grants 20% Character HP natively and then 100-120% special attack when the Lilim condition is satisfied. Pairing this with SSR Fire Amon and only Kamihime that are either Fire/Water/Wind/Thunder, you can run a hilarious rainbow team which exploits the fact that SSR Fire Amon grants 50% Fire/Water/Wind/Thunder ATK to all allies and the fact that Diabolos Unleashed grants special attack to gain a literal 50% damage increase from elemental buffs. You can make this even funnier by running Azazel AW and Marduk AW to make everyone Hercules and gain powerful barriers/regen/pursuit buffs, which is just a hilarious idea. Or you can just do it for the memes and run Amon/Nike/Cybele/Baal in one team.

    Of course, good luck collecting 9 * 4 = 36 null spears and SSR Diabolos. That's pretty much not going to happen in any realistic time-span, but it's a fun thought to consider.

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